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jump to last post 1-3 of 3 discussions (40 posts)

France initiates Liberal Progressive Heaven.

  1. JSChams profile image60
    JSChamsposted 5 years ago

    http://hotair.com/archives/2012/09/28/y … h-earners/

    France has sent their tax rate to 75%. On the wealthy of course. Fine.
    So let's all....and I do mean all...take a break for about five years and leave them alone and see what happens. This is the type of Nirvana tactic  the left wants. Here's the test subject.
    If it works the left can tell us they are right....
    But if not.................................smile

    1. Mighty Mom profile image82
      Mighty Momposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      We don't have to look to France as a test case.
      The United States had a similar tax rate for 40 years before Reagan!

      http://www.ntu.org/tax-basics/history-o … ual-1.html

    2. gmwilliams profile image85
      gmwilliamsposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      75% taxation way too much!  Well, this is the second French Revolution, instead of saying off with their heads, it is now off with their monies! 

      However, there must be some type of income balance.   There should not be any poverty in the world at all but a standardized livable wage instead of minimum wate.  The wealthy should be taxed from 45%-50%.

    3. Josak profile image61
      Josakposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      The best years of American development occurred under the same tax rate.

    4. Josak profile image61
      Josakposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      I would also like to add that there are plenty of examples to look at if you want to see what a moderate socialist state can achieve, take Brazil for example which has been socialist for about a decade, has halved poverty, grown from the 11th to the 6th largest economy in the world and is about to become #5 and it's president has just retired having served his terms as the most popular president in Brazilian history with an approval rating of 85%+ his party won the election comfortably again and everything is going well.

      1. Mighty Mom profile image82
        Mighty Momposted 5 years agoin reply to this

        And aren't they hosting the Olympics, too?
        Hey -- maybe Romney can go help them make sure it goes off well.

      2. TheMagician profile image90
        TheMagicianposted 5 years agoin reply to this

        Can you do me a favor and give me a short simple refresher on what modern socialism would entail compared to what we've got now? It's been a while since I've dabbled in politics and forgot a lot of the specific points in socialism. My minds been stuck in comic book and NBC fall premiere heaven lately lol

        1. Josak profile image61
          Josakposted 5 years agoin reply to this

          Good question with lots of answers, saying socialism is as diverse as saying capitalism and one can have all sorts of variations within that system.

          In the Brazilian context we are talking public aid for people to start small businesses, free schooling and university, increased regulation taxation and control of major industries by the public, high minimum wage, free healthcare, recognizing traditional land ownership, agricultural reform to ensure the abolishment of a peasant class in favor of small land ownership, free or subsidized public transport, progressive taxation and high investment in reduction of poverty (that's the basics I guess).

          1. TheMagician profile image90
            TheMagicianposted 5 years agoin reply to this

            Thanks for that, definitely the context I was interesting in knowing about! I'm curious though, and this is what always confuses me; people would be able to run/own their own businesses, right? But major industries would be controlled by the public... we're not talking major industries like WalMart, are we? More like raw materials, like gasoline or cotton?

            1. Josak profile image61
              Josakposted 5 years agoin reply to this

              Correct, things like mining and manufacture, companies like Walmart would be subject perhaps to higher taxation and a higher minimum wage (plus a maximum wage potentially), but they would not be publicly owned (in a moderate system) and yes small business would be encouraged and aided albeit with more resources devoted to the protection and rights of employees. Working with unions it's a astounding how often employees aren't even receiving current minimum wage let alone appropriate overtime pay and workplace treatment.

              1. TheMagician profile image90
                TheMagicianposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                well modern socialism definitely doesn't sound like a bad thing at all. i will have to read more and study more up on this. thanks a lot for the insight, Josak! much appreciated smile

                1. Josak profile image61
                  Josakposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                  More than welcome Magician, glad you found it interesting. If you are interested in doing some reading on the matter I suggest Walden Two by B.F. Skinner and The Ragged Trousered Philanthropists by Robert Tressel and the opposing views obviously, Atlas Shrugged and The Wealth of Nations.
                  Have a good one

    5. Mark Knowles profile image61
      Mark Knowlesposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      LOL

      This is just hot air. The "wealthy" French live offshore or in Monaco and pay zero taxes - the same as wealthy Americans.

      1. Josak profile image61
        Josakposted 5 years agoin reply to this

        Hi Mark, do you live in France? I believe I read somewhere once that you did, apologies if I am wrong, if you do what do you think of the new government and what is the public reaction and such like? I don't know anyone from France to ask, it's always interesting to get the view from the ground so to speak if it's no trouble.

        1. Mark Knowles profile image61
          Mark Knowlesposted 5 years agoin reply to this

          Same as the old government. Much like the USA - it makes no real difference who gets in. They will spend us into the ground, over-borrow and increase taxes to cover the costs.

          1. profile image0
            Motown2Chitownposted 5 years agoin reply to this

            It's true.  Why is it true?  Because here in the states, over in Europe, somewhere in Asia - that's what government does.  What makes it so deplorable to us here in the USA is that we're supposed to have the tools to keep it from happening.  But all the best tools in the world mean jack if someone else has more money to hire someone else with more tools.  Which is precisely what happens in government.

    6. rfmoran profile image90
      rfmoranposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      Recall the old joke that insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results. Check out this amazzing video - entertaining but amazing in its wisdom.  Bar Stool Economics http://bit.ly/faqywt

      1. JSChams profile image60
        JSChamsposted 5 years agoin reply to this

        Oh yes I have that video in my favorites and have for about a year or whenever he put it out.
        I keep pushing for a deal where the liberals take some place.....NOT the US....and take over and implement all the social insanity they claim will straighten all our problems out and MAKE IT WORK!.
        Nut when I say this they say Denmark! and Sweden! and all sorts of other place sand I say Greece! and Spain! and they blame some form of Conservatism.
        That's why I want them to have some where fresh. do the whole thing and PROVE IT!
        You do experiments on a small scale first.

        1. Josak profile image61
          Josakposted 5 years agoin reply to this

          As I said, plenty of countries in South America where socialism was chosen democratically between 10 and 15 years ago, go ahead and look at them, it worked.

        2. rfmoran profile image90
          rfmoranposted 5 years agoin reply to this

          Denmark and Sweden realized that socialism is an abyss; Greece and Spain (and of course, France) still hope it will work. How can a person keep thinking the same erroneous thoughts call himself a "liberl." I like "classical liberal" ( libertarian conservative).

          1. JSChams profile image60
            JSChamsposted 5 years agoin reply to this

            Talk to Josak.

          2. Josak profile image61
            Josakposted 5 years agoin reply to this

            Greece and Spain both have conservative governments... Particularly Spain. Countries like Norway which have economically superseded the US are moderate socialist nations.

          3. JSChams profile image60
            JSChamsposted 5 years agoin reply to this

            They never want to do what i ask. Now South America is utopia.

            1. Josak profile image61
              Josakposted 5 years agoin reply to this

              Utopia's don't exist, things are however much much much much improved, economically and socially.

              World politics unfortunately do not bow to our demands but there are plenty of examples of what you want.

              1. JSChams profile image60
                JSChamsposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                But I want a new fresh example in plain light of day with our ignorant press watching. Not some example years after the fact no one has been paying attention to.
                California is almost there. make it a nation. you could even get foreign aid from the US. Especially if you let the Muslim Brotherhood run it.

                1. Josak profile image61
                  Josakposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                  The examples I am giving are still continuing with enough years behind them to see that the results are actually related to the policy, they happened in the light and with the press watching.

                  In the case of Brazil which I qouted we are talking about the 5th biggest economy in the world, people have definitely been noticing.

                  1. JSChams profile image60
                    JSChamsposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                    Well the press must not have been very impressed. Wonder why?

  2. JSChams profile image60
    JSChamsposted 5 years ago

    So I would think most here would agree that the best course is to wait and watch and see if the supposed history repeats itself.
    That, of course, will also be subject to verification of the results.

    1. Josak profile image61
      Josakposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      Yeah I haven't had time to study what sort of system France is going to institute but if it's like their last socialist system they will have good results, as did the last one.

      1. JSChams profile image60
        JSChamsposted 5 years agoin reply to this

        So then leave it be a find out. You can be a cheerleader all you like. Everything doesn't always turn out the way we hope or believe it will. Right?

        1. Josak profile image61
          Josakposted 5 years agoin reply to this

          Yeah exactly, given how early it is though I don't know why you made a hub on it rather than one of the many socialist states around at the moment that have had plenty of time. No big deal I guess.

          1. JSChams profile image60
            JSChamsposted 5 years agoin reply to this

            I didn't make a hub on it. I have other things in mind for future hubs.

            1. Josak profile image61
              Josakposted 5 years agoin reply to this

              Sorry, you are right I meant a forum post.

  3. maxoxam41 profile image73
    maxoxam41posted 5 years ago

    Finally France is stepping out of the neocons' scheme. Given it is a socialist/liberal (in the economical term) government, it is time to apply the policies the people elected them for!

    1. JSChams profile image60
      JSChamsposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      Hey i hope they get what they deserve. No more, no less. Just don't tell me I have to live that way.

 
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