For a while now, the underground conspiratorial theory about the secret worldwide domination at the hands of free masons, satanist, or other subversive- societal groups( the specific group changes per theory) has been circling media circles. A few singular elements about the base theory are credible, and seem to be based in logic and common sense; while others are sensational to the point of entering the realm of fantasy and make believe. Looking at many of the arguments; from both sides of the fight, most of the debaters seem to argue for personal gain or to advance resentment against world powers. Even though I'm sure that the idea of one organization holding as much power as the most extreme theories would suggest; is honestly against the fiber of man's warlike, status seeking, organizational capacity; I still want to take an unbiased look at those singular base elements that might hold water. Going off the advice of a comment to my youtube identity, I've decided to write a paper on the basis of the theory. This forum is opened as a discussion about those singular elements. I want to know, what have you heard: credible or incredibly unbelievable. Any books, articles, tv shows, or online posts that you have read, and what you felt about them. Any opinion on the subject that has something worth researching. My hope is that through an open; INTELLIGENT, discussion of the theorem, I may be able able to refine my paper to address public opinion through the posts in this thread. Let's keep it clean without attacking each other, attack the comment with evidence or articulate counter theories; or keep it to yourself!!
Persecution is Inevitable!
Those that love conspiracies see signs in innocuous things to see things that are not there. They follow belief, speculation and opinion, not evidence, and they cannot be argued with.
True and with this topic is one of those that is over- run with unfounded theories, but that's the purpose of the forum-- to find the truthful basis that birthed the theory in the first place. I am not looking to prove the entire theory at all, or even argue with it's supporters or naysayers-- just sifting through the opinions for any kernel of truth, hoping to find singular truthful elements or to find that it is completely baseless-- Trust me, I'm not looking to argue with the unmovable psuedo- intellectuals at all, not into exercises of futility--
I recommend the book "Freemasonry" by Jack Harris. The author says he was a former "Worshipful Master" in a Mason lodge. I read the book years ago and found it very informative and very good; his testimony rang true as I read through the book. I wish I still had a copy of it.
I'll add it to the list but I'm cautious and skeptical of sect defectors because many of them are jaded with an ax to grind so that sensationalize, exaggerate and lie to get their points across; I will give it an objective look though- thanks-
You've got to be more specific. I have read revelations, in it's entirety, along with a host of Gnostic and satanist angled books( ones that relate satanism to Gnosticism and a few that show them as disconnected). What particular part of revs, are you referring to though- the rapture? Or maybe the signs that the rapture is upon us? With the Illuminati stuff, so much of the bible has been referenced as proof( some of which makes no sense), but I am looking for the specific parts that people feel support this particular conspiracy theory. So if you have a particular part of revelations that you are referring too, I am willing to consider it with a, unbiased mind.
I already did. Probably the driest and laughably full-of-holes sci-fi novel I've ever read. The author seriously expected people to believe that a seven-headed monster claiming to be a bringer of peace WASN'T going to have its ass blown up to Kingdom Come? What an idiot!
Can you explain Revelations clearly, irrefutably, in 4 words?
Did you happen to see the rest of the forum, we've been discussing the application of the bible to real life. During which, several things about revs has been thrown out there. I don't side with or against the bible, just against it's literal application. Figurative, symbolic epic/ fable, myth as best I can tell.
Seems like my hubs would be the perfect place to start! Of course, many people are too quick to assume that conspiracies simply don't happen... Which is ridiculous, of course they do. The biggest conspiracy theory has always been that there is no conspiracy (Dennis Miller).
Right on and the biggest lie that the devil ever told was convincing the world that he didn't exist ( a response I got on youtube, but I've heard it from preachers as well. -- I agree with Hubs being a good place to get just the public opinions-- So what do you think of the idea of a secret society linked through bloodlines, controlling the entire world-- is it really possible? I mean when in history has man ever been able to work as a team for the a time span even close to what these theories imply? At the same time, elitism definitely exists in and throughout different ruling bodies, so there could be underground societies controlling world powers, I just wonder could there possibly one major society controlling it all, like the theories suggest.
Yes, because of narcissism/sociopathy/psychopathy - something which I also write about and which the bible warns about:
2 Timothy 3:1-7 - But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty. For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people.
I have also written about how certain people who are allegedly part of the Illuminati are genetically related to the rulers of Britain and how the candidate with the most royal genes always wins the election (in US).
That's interesting with the royal genealogy of candidates. I definitely have to look at genealogical connects with this stuff. SO many theories relate ages and ages of control to genealogy.
I recommend Sir Laurence Gardener's book, Bloodline Of The Holy Grail (ISBN: 0-7607-0735-9). If you want to do some deeper digging Michael Tsarion's Astro-Theology And Sidereal Mythology also unveils some fascinating things about the Royal family.
Every good conspiracy theory begins with a grain of truth. Which is then wrapped up in a ball of lies, misinformation and inuendo. I do think that there are groups who work together to gain as much power as they can comfortably wield. Because it is human nature to seek power.
I don't think there has ever been any evidence of supernatural elements guiding the struggle for power. I think we invent those to hide from the acceptance of what lengths human nature will drive some to in the pursuit of power.
You've hit my idea on the head. I agree that most BELIEVABLE (gotta stress it right? You know how some of the bad ones can be...) conspiracy theories have a basis in truth; no matter how minuscule that truth may be. I just wonder what the original truths are under the craziness of this one are. I mean how did it go from World Leaders to Rap stars? I mean are there societies controlling the political structures and the rap industry alike, but being one mass society? I mean it's like are you serious, we can cooperate long enough to get past religious differences but we can put them aside for power and control? And see that kinda makes sense- look at history, a few societies have opted for power connections religious differences in the wake. But the sheer size of this theory makes it illogical, right. Like Human nature is to seek power, isn't also another humanistic trait to seek absolute power; most times, into ruin? Wouldn't a society like this; taking into account the time span, have been over-run, switched hands, went through periods of separation, been exposed already, etc?
The rap star conspiracy is news to me. But, I don't think secret societies are necessarily eventually exposed. We may know the names, but the faces involved aren't always known.
My personal conspiracy theory involves corporate control of the world. They already control our government here in America and, with the global economy, they have the means by which to pull the strings of every government; without ever showing their faces. Power without accountability.
On the rap topic, yea now it's rappers and rand b singers. One vid I watched on Youtube featured a guy linking the bloodlines of Vlad the impaler and Attila I think with Jay-z. Then you have the whole spin- off theory that the Illuminati is based around the rap industry's most successful artist and that, in order to become a mega star they had to sacrifice a family member and pay some gigantic amount of money , oh yeah and become satanist. Seemed like a bunch of garbo, but people are really behind it.
Personally I believe; like you, american government is nothing but a big corporation, fettered by smaller corporations. just like I consider each politician to be a business in of their self, instead of a singular entity with a team of singular advisers. Almost like a group of symbiotes finding what they need in each other to morph into a successful political candidate. The cartoon transformers comes to mind....
Wow. That's crazy. But, when you think about the talent out there, you do wonder what those who rise to the top had to do in order to get there. I wouldn't go so far as to believe rappers had to sacrifice family members; but I'm sure many did things they aren't proud of on the road to stardom.
But, I don't see politicians as being corporations. They are, in my mind, greedy pawns. Lobbyists pull the strings of policy. They are the foot soldiers working for those who wield the true power. I guess rappers could be in the fringe, but I think old money probably represents the powers with the most tentacles.
Yea the theories with the music industry go pretty far out there, like there's probably 20 or more vids showing slow- mo concerts of rappers(Jay- Z, Kanye, and the Rockefeller talent were especially targeted because of their diamond hand symbol, for example)supposedly throwing up Satanic hand symbols that were Illuminati related. I just watched, in amazement at the comments that steadily flowed on those vids' pages. Crazy doesn't begin to describe, but that's my personal opinion. Anyway though I agree 100 percent that international success and fame must have dues much more than most people could imagine. Sacrifices with personal consequences that would tear most psyches into fragments. I mean look at all of the stars that we; as onlookers, watch go down in the glorious exploitation at the height of an amazing career; or spin out of control and into a slow downward spiral-- there has to be unseen reasons, you know.
Politicians, same thing, machine or puppet, we agree that they definitely aren't controlling themselves. They are ultimately controlled by private interest, money, and the hope of controlling the public.
Old money runs everything, look at- and it's not a characterization of him, cause he is one of those people, you mention and the pendulum swings one way or the other-- love em or hate em, BJ. His election and most of his career old money has been there to cushion, protect, and empower him. Without his father and family's influence he would have surely have lived a life of mediocrity.
You lost me on the BJ comment, but most of them are the same. Money buys elections. Every once in a while we may get a candidate who is genuine, but even that doesn't last. They get bought out, or sucked in. Whatever happens, the people are the ones who lose in the end.
You don't think Bush Junior, outside of the influence of his father and family, would have been a mediocre man?
I think the Illuminatii, Rothchild lineage et al are real. But, they are waiting in the wings, so to speak. They may be part of God's back-up plan. It is to be implemented when mankind gets so lawless and materialistic that God must reset human nature and bring it back on track. We may be headed there, but perhaps we still respect God's laws and live with love for our neighbors... enough to keep the tribulation at bay. Revelation 18 talks about the fall and destruction of Babylon. I think Babylon is symbolic for total greed and selfishness, lawlessness and Godless behavior on the part of humanity. Are we there yet? I do not think so. I really do not. Those who hold love in their hearts for God, their loved ones, their neighbors, the citizens of their country and the people of the world, will hold the tribulation at bay.
Thats what I think.
I read a book called "Are We Living in the End Times" by Tim Le Haye and Jerry B. Jenkins. Their conclusion was Yes, and they set forth trying to prove it. I did not agree with them, in the end, however.
I'll skim the book and get back to you on it; no sense trying to discuss what I haven't experienced first hand. On the revelations stuff I understand what you're saying. My only problem with going with Babylon as symbolic and then giving it a specific time frame is that it's applying it in a way outside of the text's scope. The bible; for all practical purposes, can be applied and re- applied numerous times throughout history. The verses that you speak of; the fall of Babylon for example, could be applied to any major civilization that has existed before or after the bible was supposedly written (I go with the 2- 300 AD theory). Take the Egyptians, Rome, Greece, the so called classics then lets take Germany and the two World wars. All four civilizations faced ruin at the hands of debauchery, greed, and the obsessive quest for power. The "reset button" pushed every time it happens, and a lot of people want to believe that the bible applies solely to one actual time; where as, I feel the real power in the bible is its accurate portrayal of naturally occurring human characteristics. What sets it apart from any other collection of Myths(not objectifying the truth, historical accuracy, or spiritual power of it at all, just strictly from a literary stand point, it easily falls into that category) is that 1) it contains so many of the same myths that are indigenous to a bunch of different religions( no matter who had them first) so it relates to a large audience 2)It portrays "hot button" issues that continue to be hot- button, even today 3) It's the religious texts of three of the most powerful, mainstream religions that exist today( C, J, I) all use the bible in some way or another, and then there are so many smaller religions that also reference it.
Something that I noticed in your reply though, Illuminati society aligned with God, so do you see them as christian aligned? I ask because a lot of theories see them as satanist. Then it leads to me to the question, what do you think of Gnosticism or agnostic Christians. It's off- topic, but still I mean are you familiar, have an opinion?
This is just my understanding: No, the illuminati are not "Christian aligned."
No, No... they are allowed to carry out the workings and activities of the Anti Christ... hard to explain. God is more powerful than the anti-christ. I imagine he allows this force to become powerful (in direct accordance to our consciousness and behavior) to bring us back to Him. (Unless we get our acts together, first...) Just like we have to let our own children learn from the school of hard knocks.
The term "agnostic" does not apply to christianity, either. It is apparently neither belief nor non-belief of that which is beyond matter. Gnosticism, on the other hand, is the shunning of the material world in favor of the spiritual world.
Metaphysics deals with that which is beyond the material world. I believe it to be a real world or realm of existence. There are planets of light and beings of light. In fact when we die we have light bodies which are blue prints of the heart, lungs, brain etc. This is why when we incarnate, our faces are similar from one lifetime to the next. When we are ready, (willing in body, mind and soul,) to go home, we are absorbed by Him back into His energy.
I recommend Autobiography of a Yogi by Paramahansa Yogananda... heard of it? His Guru, Sri Yukteswar wrote the Science of Religion as well. Look into these! You will be amazed!
The Forbidden Religion, Herrou Aragon, Jose M. was one of those books on "Gnosis" that runs straight from the bible-- it was a quick pick from kindle( a cheap book) but it's one of those that uses that mixes Gnosis and the bible. Weird views, just weird, twisted but logical and plausible interpretations. Not agreeing with it at all, but it's mostly plausible stuff. of course the plausible stuff takes a wild turn toward the outrageously awesome, but like i said not agreeing with the total argument at all. The funny thing is, he uses the bible to lead into the metaphysical, it's definitely an interesting read. The book also turns satanism upside down, that's why I asked your opinion on it, well read as you seem, I figured maybe you had run across one of these books like Herrou's. But as for the books you've suggested, I'll throw them on the ever expanding list. John Paul as well. As for the topic, I figured I might as well do something personally useful with my page. This is a good place to get public opinions and theories for papers I figured. Hopefully as I do subsequent post relating to this forum and other topics, I can keep same level of intelligent debate that this forum is seeming to generate. Thanks for the response, Totally appreciated like you wouldn't believe.
Thanks for your interest in these matters. I will check out that book -thanks for sharing.
Your view point about how many times the reset button has had to be pushed is an interesting one, which I would agree with. The angel who came to John was either prophetic regarding a certain time, or not. It is hard to believe that it is in regards to a time in the near or certain future.
We'll never know, since even in the bible, it states that we will never know exactly when... Thats why I believe we will cause it to occur by our actions. Most likely, some thought Hitler was surely the anti christ. A "true" (as they call themselves) Christian will give you another answer, however.
Thanks for an interesting topic.
Check out: JohnPaulJackson tv on You tube.
Kathryn L Hill wrote:
Read Revelations in Bible
I already did. Probably the driest and laughably full-of-holes sci-fi novel I've ever read. The author seriously expected people to believe that a seven-headed monster claiming to be a bringer of peace WASN'T going to have its ass blown up to Kingdom Come? What an idiot!
Ya gotta remember that these discriptions are symbolic. These same symbols were given to Daniel and Gabriel gave the meaning of most of these symbols to Daniel.
Rev 13:1 beast having seven heads In Daniel the head represents the country or kingdom while horns represents Greece kings.
The leopard represents greece, the bear represents Persia, while the mouth like a lion can be understood to represent Nebeuchadnezzar or the Roman Empire (Rome)
So the "Beast" described in Rev. 13 is made up of, or contained within the kingdom of Greece, and Persia and The Roman Empire (Rome)
When the RCC was first established the Roman Empire was divided into seven districts (Heads) and each district was assigned one pope/bishop. These 7 districts mwas further divided into three regions, each region being assigned another pope having authority over church business in that region.
So we have seven heads (areas of land mass) and ten horns (Kings or leaders) wearing ten crowns.
The three disctict headquarters were in Alexandria (leopard)built by Alexander the great; In Rome (teeth of a lion) and the third was in Antioch (feet of a bear) located in the southerly extremity of Persia.
It is said that this "beast" and the second described in Rev 13 is given 42 months to subdue the earth. This 42 months should be understood in the same manner as we see the 62 weeks unto the messiah being killed as described in Daniel 9.
In 538 BC Gabriel told Daniel that in 62 weeks the Messiah will be cut off (killed)
Approx 538 years later Jesus was killed. So 42 months would be something like 1644 years.
It's funny but I think that they are both correct; just that Z dude doesn't realize he's supporting Jerami. I agree that if you read the bible as an accurate, historical account that it reads like a super magical, mystical, fantasy, sci- fi mega story. But as Jerami says; and it was my point about reading the book like any other collection of myths, parables, and fables- the bible is meant to be figurative, symbolic and apply to numerous points thrughtout history. It shows common humanistic characteristics that will always be able to applied. I mean unless humans somehow stop being controlled by money, power, respect( cliched as it is, it is still true). Or maybe it could be compared to one of the great epics like Gilgamesh, Siddhartha, or Sundiata. i will say this, I don't think that it was as dry as Z-dude suggested, I think the tale in of itself, is probably the best written, multi- genre text of the modern/ contemporary world.
The conclusion that I came to is that 300 years after Jesus taught a new phylosophy then died, that an organized religion was established upon less than 2% of his teachings, This organized religion is the beast that John saw in his vision rising up out of the sea.;more than 1900 years ago.
And I think that is a plausible interpretation. I don't believe with any certainty we'll ever know the original intent, but I agree that the worth and purpose has to be interpreted. So many preachers, will say this line and then read the bible as a word for word example of how things will happen. I only see it as guide to behaviors through interpretation of the behavior and application in today's terms.
Jerami's explanation was most interesting, thank you. Plausible too, although I am in no way a scholar of biblical things.
It is my opinion that the most signifigent detail written is the bible is also the most ignored and/or misinterpreted story in the bible.
Daniel 9:1 In 538 BC Gabriel came to Daniel and told him that in 62 weeks they are going to kill the Messiah. Approx 568 years later they did! Wouldn't this mean that 62 weeks in prophesy is the same length of time as 568 of our years? SOooo a week in prophesy would be equal to approx 9.1 of our years. 1260 days would be equal to approx 1644 of our years.
If this equation was applied everytime a length of time is referenced in prophesy we would reach a completely different understanding from prophesy that what is geing taught.
Well not sure where it is, but is there a verse that says something like, "with the lord 40 days is a thousand years and a thousand years, 40 days," maybe it's thousand years= a day, sounds better so it probably is. But it's the same thing, so true how people skip and skim past the points that they can't readily make sense of.
For one, try researching the Johnny Gosch kidnapping (I wrote about it), Project Monarch & the Franklin coverup. All you need to do is a google search that will send you on your way.................
Another name to Google: Paul Bonacci.
All of these are linked together. In my opinion, it's ALL based on fact. Believe it or not. Rooted in Truth!!
Good references, I'll check them out-- Paul Bonacci I've already ran across, and I'm looking into him further.
Good to know....prepare to be shocked and appalled.
When you say "you wrote about it," is it online where i could possibly read it. Like I had said, the purpose of this form for me, was for me to start preparing a paper on the topic, maybe a few short hubs then a longer, academic paper- not sure yet; however, it would be awesome to have another researching- writer's work for citation.
When I started this forum I hoped to get some opinions and info on the illuminati conspiracy for an article on it from both ends- If you have anything else to say it would be greatly appreciated- Ive gotten a lot of good opinions and directions thus far and would like to get some more-
Or if you have anything to say about anything that has already been said-
We're not allowed to promote our own hubs on the forum but I did write one that was a compilation of "Illuminati Exposed" activity throughout the decades, basically from Pearl Harbour up until recently (2010 I think).
some kind of way I ended up with two hubpages accounts with the same name and info- Ill follow you from the other one then send you a fan mail, could you then reply with the link or would that be outside of the hubpages rules too, lol.
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