Why should females serve as infantrymen?

1. 61

   Brian Freemanposted 10 years ago

   I work in a very one-sided environment on this issue and many others. In the past couple of years I have witnessed the military being used as a social experiment. However, not many reasons why it should be changed are presented. The amount of reasons to not let this happen outway the only one I have heard.

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   psycheskinnerposted 10 years ago

   If a woman is capable of doing the job, there is no reason to stop her other than prejudice.

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      Brian Freemanposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      I think that is the argument. Can a woman do the job?

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         SimeyCposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         If she passes all the same physical and 'mental' tests that a man has to pass, then yes. That should be the only consideration!

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            Brian Freemanposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            It's more than physical and mental tests. There are hardships endured that would present challenges for a woman.

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               Zelkiiroposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               And they don't present challenges for men?

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                  whoisitposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                  Never in the military I see.

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               SimeyCposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               Surely these tests are designed to see if someone could survive in a war situation?

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                  Brian Freemanposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                  For example, what does a female do when they are on their menstrual cycle and have been on a patrol for five days. Patrols do not have showers. There are no trash cans and you carry all your trash with you. You can't just stop and change your tampon. In the military we don't wake up, stop at Starbucks, arrive at work, and then come home for dinner. During training and combat there are obstacles that must be overcome. This is just one example.

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                     Uninvited Writerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                     "In the military we don't wake up, stop at Starbucks, arrive at work, and then come home for dinner."
                     
                     Is that what you think all women in the military think about? I'm sure they are quite aware of what it entails.  I'm sure women will find ways to cope with tampons or menstrual pads. How do men cope if they get diarrhea? They find a way around it.

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                        Brian Freemanposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                        The majority of women complaining about equality are not the ones who are putting themselves in harms way. They look at it as unfair, but don't understand all that it entails. You are a woman and I think you would agree that your menstrual cycle is not comparable to diarrhea.

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                           Judi Beeposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                           Can't speak for everyone, but generally periods are far more predictable, manageable and less unpleasant than diarrhea.  Female astronauts have managed, I'm sure it's not beyond women's wit to cope in the army.

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                              Brian Freemanposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                              Patrolling a mountain side for multiple days is not the same as being an astronaut. Astronauts have privacy, showers, bathrooms, and can conduct basic hygiene. Cycles are predictable, firefights are not.

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                                 Uninvited Writerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                 An they are trained along with the men and know exactly what to expect.

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                     Judi Beeposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                     You can take the Pill continuously and not have a period - some women do it to avoid having a period whilst on holiday.  In addition, changing a tampon is hardly a time consuming or complicated operation.

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                        Uninvited Writerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                        That's true, many who take pills have a period maybe twice a year.

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                           Brian Freemanposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                           So, all women who are in the Infantry must take this pill?

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                     SimeyCposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                     Trying to put this delicately - but what do men do when they are 'saluting' - that probably happens many times a day - you deal with it.

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         psycheskinnerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         There are presumably standard tests of mental and physical performance people have to pass for these positions. I doubt presence of a penis is one of them. Women serve in the police, fire fighters etc.  They have serve with valor in combat that arose unexpectedly.  So I see no issue.

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            whoisitposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            And another who knows nothing of the military and certainly nothing of war.

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               psycheskinnerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               I know that my country has female infantry in combat.  I assume American females are as capable as Kiwi, Israeli etc females.

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                  whoisitposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                  Thats what you know?

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                     psycheskinnerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                     That's a fact.  Feel free to explain why what is possible for many other countries with troops in combat is impossible for Americans.
                     
                     Or keep the the ad hom attacks, up to you.

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                        whoisitposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                        Heres a fact, 90% of MEN who attempt SEAL training fail! The military is 20% bite and 80% bark, who would you rather have biting the estrogen or testosterone?

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                           Zelkiiroposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                           First off, SEALs are special forces, not infantrymen. Second, any physical feats a man can perform can be done equally well by a woman, and that's been the case since time immemorial.

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                              whoisitposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                              I know what a SEAL is, as for the rest.....bullshit!

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                                 Zelkiiroposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                 ITT: whoisit calls women weak and openly proclaims his misogyny.

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                                    whoisitposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                    LOL, no not misogynist, realist!

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                  Brian Freemanposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                  Isreali forces do have female infantry soldiers. However, there is misconception with this fact. There is only one Battalion that is slotted the female soldiers. They are not open to all infantry units. I would not site a reference unless it backs my opinion. In my opinion female soldiers of the caliber needed would fare better in a Special Forces role. Infantry "Joe" is ignorant and crude.

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                     whoisitposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                     I don't think they would fare any better in Special Forces.

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               Zelkiiroposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               Sounds like someone is afraid that letting women join the infantry will make him feel emasculated.
               
               There, there. It's okay. Women aren't objects anymore! They can do all the stuff we can!

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                  Brian Freemanposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                  It's a scientific fact that they are built a different way and can't do everything a man can do. On the other side of the coin there are many things women can do that men can't either. This isn't as simple as race. Regardless, I have served with very few great men and women. The majority of them (men and women) don't cut the mustard in my book.

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                     psycheskinnerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                     Actually it's a scientific fact that strength and stamina are overlapping curves where a great many woman outperform a great many men.
                     
                     Women are serving in combat positions.  Even in the US forces, they just weren't allowed to be given the promotions and medals men in the same circumstances would get. Even if they did not go to the battle, in Iraq and Afghanistan, it came to them. Time to just admit that.

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                        whoisitposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                        You can find a study backing any opinion, the only opinions that should matter are those who would serve with women. If men want them to serve next to them then so be it. There should not be any difference in the way they are trained and used.
                        
                        But, there will be.

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                           Josakposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                           I served with women in the Montoneros and found plenty of them to be tougher than I was. I met Esther Norma Arrostito who after being captured was tortured for over a year without ever saying a single word before being executed.
                           
                           Lyudmila Pavlichenko is more than enough evidence for me that women can serve as effectively as men She has 309 confirmed Nazi kills as a sniper in comparison to the highest confirmed kill count for any US servicemen of 160.
                           
                           People who argue women cannot serve do so simply out of ignorance and insecurity, all the facts prove otherwise.

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                              whoisitposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                              Never said they couldn't serve, don't change the subject to suit your argument.

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                                 Josakposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                 Allow me to correct myself. *Cannot serve in combat roles and infantry*.

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   Healthy Pursuitsposted 10 years ago

   When you get right down to it, the way our politicians use the patriotism of our young, once they start another war it won't matter who they put in front of the bullets and bombs. Those greedy, egotistical bast*rds will use young women as cannon fodder just as easily as they use young men now. Too few of us have objected to protect our young from being used in that way so far, so why should the sex of the victims suddenly become an issue?

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      Brian Freemanposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      You're right! Lets get rid of the military they don't do anything. They just waste taxpayers money anyways. Other countries and entities that hate America won't ever attack us. So, why do we put so much effort into them?

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         Healthy Pursuitsposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         Well, that was a well thought out response. Do you think all wars American military are involved in are just and necessary? If so, then think again. They aren't! 
         
         And it's time we think much more clearly before we go to another war. Our soldiers are people with families and lives. If our soldiers are going to place themselves in harm's way for us, then we should demand of our politicians that they proceed carefully and without the greed and ego that has gotten too many fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters, etc., killed or crippled for life.  It's time we prized our military people enough to not consider them just expendable cannon fodder. Male or female.

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   Judi Beeposted 10 years ago

   I realise that they are not the same thing, but each presents a problem.  Women were excluded from the early space program because of the "problem" of menstruation in zero gravity - not for privacy or hygiene considerations, but for health - where does the flow go when there's no gravity was the concern.  The problem has been overcome - and that's my point.  If there's a will, a problem can be overcome.  If there's not, a reason will always be found not to overcome it.  Incidentally, I imagine that if I was in a firefight, the last thing on my mind would be my period - I'd be more interested in losing blood from a bullet hole.

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      Brian Freemanposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      In that type of environment hygiene is "health".  I would agree. We will adapt and overcome and the last thing on my mind would be your period. What would be on many leaders minds is that you are safe. This is going to take time to change a mans natural instinct to protect a woman. Our culture encourages this behavior starting in childhood. For the record, I know women can do it. I wanted to hear the opinions of others who do not know what they are asking women to do. Military life is nothing like civilian life. We don't have as many rights as you and if we quit our job we are arrested and thrown in jail.

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         Healthy Pursuitsposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         Who's going to quit? The men? The women?

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   peeplesposted 10 years ago

   I personally don't think anyone should be able to enter the military unless they are capable of carrying the heaviest member of the military out of harms way. I know this is only one of so many other important things, but there should be an ability to carry a wounded person out of harms way.
   Personally I wonder how the children of these women will be impacted. I believe a mother plays a much different role in a child growing up than a man. How will these children turn out with their mothers gone for so long?

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      Josakposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Learning to carry people much heavier than us was part of our basic infantry training, I imagine it is everywhere.
      
      Fathers and mothers both play a hugely important role in childhood and both sexes already work jobs that require lots of time away.

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         peeplesposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         You are correct, many work, but personally though I believe there are different benefits that come from each parent. Children have been losing fathers at a much higher rate than mothers since the start of time. I just wonder what the change will be in children who begin to lose their mothers. The number of motherless children will rise. No matter if the women work or not, in many homes mothers still play a much different role than fathers.
         I knew learning to carry was a basic training thing for men. I come from a military family. I was just unaware if women are having to go through the exact training or if it is being adjusted for them.
         I have no issue with women in the military so long as they can do the job.

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   Sooner28posted 10 years ago

   Sexism indeed.

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   Greekgeekposted 10 years ago

   Wow. You do realize that women have been at the front lines for decades -- heck, even back during WWI, to some extent, but certainly in all our Middle East wars?
   
   They're driving the jeeps, and when the jeeps come under fire, they're pulling out the wounded, grabbing guns and shooting back.
   
   Also, some are officers, and they are already fighting in combat. There was a good TIME magazine last month interviewing some of the guys serving in Afghanistan who've had nothing but good things to say about them, giving specific anecdotes. (Including the one about the jeep driver hauling wounded guys out of the back who were much bigger than she was, then manning the gun on top of the jeep when one of them was too freaked out by the fire they were under to handle it -- she made HIM drive.)
   
   I had a good friend in ROTC who saw combat in the first Gulf War. What, you think she was going to sit on her hands and not fight when her unit came under fire?
   
   Welcome to the 21st century. This is just making official what's already been happening for a while.
   
   And your obsession with our bodily fluids seems a bit strange. Believe it or not, we know basic hygiene. I guess you wouldn't expect that of "females" of the species, as you term us, to be able to care for ourselves (even though we've done that while hauling around babies, and used to carry them everywhere while working and farming) but quite frankly, because of the fact that we've grown up knowing how to deal with blood and bodily fluids as part of our daily lives, we're pretty grossed out by most men's lack of hygiene!

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      Brian Freemanposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      I personally know LTC McCoy, she is a great soldier. I recently redeployed from Afghanistan and a medic of mine did the same thing. I have much respect for ANYONE. Let me say that again, I have much RESPECT FOR ANYONE who will volunteer to join the military and deploy to combat to serve their countries citizens. Greekgeek, my question is only to invite conversation and I am playing devils advocate. I have not attacked anyone or tried to make them feel dumb. I have served 13 years in the airborne units side by side with females.

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   cheaptrickposted 10 years ago

   I'm all for women in the infantry cause...Well,for one thing...if your losing the fire fight you can have the women GI's strip down and display themselves so as to confuse the enemy!Then,while the enemy are busy ogling the guy GI's can shoot them!See,compromise is always the best way...Huh?

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      Zelkiiroposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      "you can have the women GI's strip down [...] Then,while the enemy are busy ogling the guy"
      
      It's a trap!

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