I work in a very one-sided environment on this issue and many others. In the past couple of years I have witnessed the military being used as a social experiment. However, not many reasons why it should be changed are presented. The amount of reasons to not let this happen outway the only one I have heard.
If a woman is capable of doing the job, there is no reason to stop her other than prejudice.
I think that is the argument. Can a woman do the job?
If she passes all the same physical and 'mental' tests that a man has to pass, then yes. That should be the only consideration!
It's more than physical and mental tests. There are hardships endured that would present challenges for a woman.
Surely these tests are designed to see if someone could survive in a war situation?
For example, what does a female do when they are on their menstrual cycle and have been on a patrol for five days. Patrols do not have showers. There are no trash cans and you carry all your trash with you. You can't just stop and change your tampon. In the military we don't wake up, stop at Starbucks, arrive at work, and then come home for dinner. During training and combat there are obstacles that must be overcome. This is just one example.
"In the military we don't wake up, stop at Starbucks, arrive at work, and then come home for dinner."
Is that what you think all women in the military think about? I'm sure they are quite aware of what it entails. I'm sure women will find ways to cope with tampons or menstrual pads. How do men cope if they get diarrhea? They find a way around it.
The majority of women complaining about equality are not the ones who are putting themselves in harms way. They look at it as unfair, but don't understand all that it entails. You are a woman and I think you would agree that your menstrual cycle is not comparable to diarrhea.
Can't speak for everyone, but generally periods are far more predictable, manageable and less unpleasant than diarrhea. Female astronauts have managed, I'm sure it's not beyond women's wit to cope in the army.
Patrolling a mountain side for multiple days is not the same as being an astronaut. Astronauts have privacy, showers, bathrooms, and can conduct basic hygiene. Cycles are predictable, firefights are not.
You can take the Pill continuously and not have a period - some women do it to avoid having a period whilst on holiday. In addition, changing a tampon is hardly a time consuming or complicated operation.
Trying to put this delicately - but what do men do when they are 'saluting' - that probably happens many times a day - you deal with it.
There are presumably standard tests of mental and physical performance people have to pass for these positions. I doubt presence of a penis is one of them. Women serve in the police, fire fighters etc. They have serve with valor in combat that arose unexpectedly. So I see no issue.
And another who knows nothing of the military and certainly nothing of war.
I know that my country has female infantry in combat. I assume American females are as capable as Kiwi, Israeli etc females.
That's a fact. Feel free to explain why what is possible for many other countries with troops in combat is impossible for Americans.
Or keep the the ad hom attacks, up to you.
Heres a fact, 90% of MEN who attempt SEAL training fail! The military is 20% bite and 80% bark, who would you rather have biting the estrogen or testosterone?
First off, SEALs are special forces, not infantrymen. Second, any physical feats a man can perform can be done equally well by a woman, and that's been the case since time immemorial.
I know what a SEAL is, as for the rest.....bullshit!
Isreali forces do have female infantry soldiers. However, there is misconception with this fact. There is only one Battalion that is slotted the female soldiers. They are not open to all infantry units. I would not site a reference unless it backs my opinion. In my opinion female soldiers of the caliber needed would fare better in a Special Forces role. Infantry "Joe" is ignorant and crude.
Sounds like someone is afraid that letting women join the infantry will make him feel emasculated.
There, there. It's okay. Women aren't objects anymore! They can do all the stuff we can!
It's a scientific fact that they are built a different way and can't do everything a man can do. On the other side of the coin there are many things women can do that men can't either. This isn't as simple as race. Regardless, I have served with very few great men and women. The majority of them (men and women) don't cut the mustard in my book.
Actually it's a scientific fact that strength and stamina are overlapping curves where a great many woman outperform a great many men.
Women are serving in combat positions. Even in the US forces, they just weren't allowed to be given the promotions and medals men in the same circumstances would get. Even if they did not go to the battle, in Iraq and Afghanistan, it came to them. Time to just admit that.
You can find a study backing any opinion, the only opinions that should matter are those who would serve with women. If men want them to serve next to them then so be it. There should not be any difference in the way they are trained and used.
But, there will be.
I served with women in the Montoneros and found plenty of them to be tougher than I was. I met Esther Norma Arrostito who after being captured was tortured for over a year without ever saying a single word before being executed.
Lyudmila Pavlichenko is more than enough evidence for me that women can serve as effectively as men She has 309 confirmed Nazi kills as a sniper in comparison to the highest confirmed kill count for any US servicemen of 160.
People who argue women cannot serve do so simply out of ignorance and insecurity, all the facts prove otherwise.
When you get right down to it, the way our politicians use the patriotism of our young, once they start another war it won't matter who they put in front of the bullets and bombs. Those greedy, egotistical bast*rds will use young women as cannon fodder just as easily as they use young men now. Too few of us have objected to protect our young from being used in that way so far, so why should the sex of the victims suddenly become an issue?
You're right! Lets get rid of the military they don't do anything. They just waste taxpayers money anyways. Other countries and entities that hate America won't ever attack us. So, why do we put so much effort into them?
Well, that was a well thought out response. Do you think all wars American military are involved in are just and necessary? If so, then think again. They aren't!
And it's time we think much more clearly before we go to another war. Our soldiers are people with families and lives. If our soldiers are going to place themselves in harm's way for us, then we should demand of our politicians that they proceed carefully and without the greed and ego that has gotten too many fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters, etc., killed or crippled for life. It's time we prized our military people enough to not consider them just expendable cannon fodder. Male or female.
I realise that they are not the same thing, but each presents a problem. Women were excluded from the early space program because of the "problem" of menstruation in zero gravity - not for privacy or hygiene considerations, but for health - where does the flow go when there's no gravity was the concern. The problem has been overcome - and that's my point. If there's a will, a problem can be overcome. If there's not, a reason will always be found not to overcome it. Incidentally, I imagine that if I was in a firefight, the last thing on my mind would be my period - I'd be more interested in losing blood from a bullet hole.
In that type of environment hygiene is "health". I would agree. We will adapt and overcome and the last thing on my mind would be your period. What would be on many leaders minds is that you are safe. This is going to take time to change a mans natural instinct to protect a woman. Our culture encourages this behavior starting in childhood. For the record, I know women can do it. I wanted to hear the opinions of others who do not know what they are asking women to do. Military life is nothing like civilian life. We don't have as many rights as you and if we quit our job we are arrested and thrown in jail.
I personally don't think anyone should be able to enter the military unless they are capable of carrying the heaviest member of the military out of harms way. I know this is only one of so many other important things, but there should be an ability to carry a wounded person out of harms way.
Personally I wonder how the children of these women will be impacted. I believe a mother plays a much different role in a child growing up than a man. How will these children turn out with their mothers gone for so long?
Learning to carry people much heavier than us was part of our basic infantry training, I imagine it is everywhere.
Fathers and mothers both play a hugely important role in childhood and both sexes already work jobs that require lots of time away.
You are correct, many work, but personally though I believe there are different benefits that come from each parent. Children have been losing fathers at a much higher rate than mothers since the start of time. I just wonder what the change will be in children who begin to lose their mothers. The number of motherless children will rise. No matter if the women work or not, in many homes mothers still play a much different role than fathers.
I knew learning to carry was a basic training thing for men. I come from a military family. I was just unaware if women are having to go through the exact training or if it is being adjusted for them.
I have no issue with women in the military so long as they can do the job.
Wow. You do realize that women have been at the front lines for decades -- heck, even back during WWI, to some extent, but certainly in all our Middle East wars?
They're driving the jeeps, and when the jeeps come under fire, they're pulling out the wounded, grabbing guns and shooting back.
Also, some are officers, and they are already fighting in combat. There was a good TIME magazine last month interviewing some of the guys serving in Afghanistan who've had nothing but good things to say about them, giving specific anecdotes. (Including the one about the jeep driver hauling wounded guys out of the back who were much bigger than she was, then manning the gun on top of the jeep when one of them was too freaked out by the fire they were under to handle it -- she made HIM drive.)
I had a good friend in ROTC who saw combat in the first Gulf War. What, you think she was going to sit on her hands and not fight when her unit came under fire?
Welcome to the 21st century. This is just making official what's already been happening for a while.
And your obsession with our bodily fluids seems a bit strange. Believe it or not, we know basic hygiene. I guess you wouldn't expect that of "females" of the species, as you term us, to be able to care for ourselves (even though we've done that while hauling around babies, and used to carry them everywhere while working and farming) but quite frankly, because of the fact that we've grown up knowing how to deal with blood and bodily fluids as part of our daily lives, we're pretty grossed out by most men's lack of hygiene!
I personally know LTC McCoy, she is a great soldier. I recently redeployed from Afghanistan and a medic of mine did the same thing. I have much respect for ANYONE. Let me say that again, I have much RESPECT FOR ANYONE who will volunteer to join the military and deploy to combat to serve their countries citizens. Greekgeek, my question is only to invite conversation and I am playing devils advocate. I have not attacked anyone or tried to make them feel dumb. I have served 13 years in the airborne units side by side with females.
I'm all for women in the infantry cause...Well,for one thing...if your losing the fire fight you can have the women GI's strip down and display themselves so as to confuse the enemy!Then,while the enemy are busy ogling the guy GI's can shoot them!See,compromise is always the best way...Huh?
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i would like to know what u think of the above topic
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