Jump to Last Post 1-4 of 4 discussions (10 posts)
  1. profile image0
    Sooner28posted 5 years ago

    Rudolph Hess, a top Nazi official, proclaimed in a 1939 speech:

    "We note with pride that one man remains beyond all criticism, and that is the Fuhrer.  This is because everyone senses and knows: he is always right, and will always be right.  The National Socialism of all of us is anchored in uncritical loyalty, in a surrender to the Fuhrer that does not ask about the why in individual cases, in the silent execution of his orders.  We believe that the Fuhrer is obeying a higher call to shape German history.  There can be no criticism of this belief."

    I hope no one betrays their ignorance and begins trying to tie Obama to Hitler or socialism.  This post isn't about that anyway.

    The most troubling aspect of this speech is a striking parallel: traditional religion and political intolerance are both inherently authoritarian and devalue the other.  With Christianity, Islam, and Judaism, the unbeliever is less worthy; God is the sole determiner of his fate.  With political atrocities, the political other, or race, or gender, or sexual orientation are devalued as human beings, such as the Holocaust or Stalin's great purge.  Both ideologies rest on unconditional intellectual surrender to a "higher power," the Christian, Muslim, or Jew to God's earthly representatives, the political to the head of a movement.  They could not occur without the majority's complicity. 

    At this point, a conclusion is undeniable: traditional religion sows the seeds of totalitarianism.  Liberal religions allow questions and doubt, and even welcome unbelievers.  Traditional religions are terrified of doing this; resting on faith, they know doubt leads to unbelief, an unbelief that is an immoral atrocity and one less mind to control.  Unfortunately, when the intellect is attacked as unreliable, as something that must be subdued, the inevitable result is an individual trained to blindly follow, which the right leader will eventually exploit.

    1. profile image0
      Brenda Durhamposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      Wow.  You don't want anyone to tie Obama to totalitarianism,  but you quite happily try to tie Christianity to it.   I'm talkin' human totalitarianism,  just as you so inaptly are.
      Let me tell you---there is more evidence for the former.
      Fine by me if you wish to tie Islam and Judaism to that in a human way, because they fit the idea much more than Christianity.   It's wrong to lump Christianity in with those.
      And your conclusion about Christianity is flawed when you assume that Christians (at least common Christians who follow Christ and not a particular Church set-up) to "surrender" to "God's earthly representatives". 
      The Christian doesn't surrender to any human.   We surrender to God Himself.
      You might want to understand that before you say such things.   And indeed, while God, yes, is the ultimate determiner of mankind's fate,  He bases that on whether a person submits to the Savior of his own free will or not.   Big difference.  As I said, your premise is flawed when you try to compare Christians to other religions.   And your discernment is flawed when you refuse to see the kinship between Hitler's followers and Obama's followers.   Obama's style is soft tyranny so far.   But his followers are half-way there;  they already viciously defend his name against any criticism.   Could this occur without the majority's complicity, as you note?   Very possible.   A group of people who whine enough and shout enough and rage enough against conservatism can indeed seem like a majority even if it isn't.

      1. profile image0
        Sooner28posted 5 years agoin reply to this

        I don't think you are realizing you are vindicating my point.

        "The Christian doesn't surrender to any human.   We surrender to God Himself."   You surrender to a select group of human being's perception of God.  From what I've seen of your theology, it's perfectly in line with the type of Christianity I was raised with.

        "He bases that on whether a person submits to the Savior of his own free will or not. "  Totalitarianism

        Tying in Obama with Hitler...It's an insult to anyone Hitler harmed.

        Obama has been worrisome on civil liberties, ordered the assassination of "suspected terrorists" knowing innocent civilians would killed, continued the imperial wars, and been a very opaque administration. 

        But we do have semblances of free speech still available (look at what we are doing here), and millions are not being murdered because Obama believes one race is superior to another.

    2. Josak profile image60
      Josakposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      Yup as Christopher Hitchens used to say, the ideology of the monotheistic faiths essentially boils down to a celestial North Korea.
      As one can see from the quotes below the Bible itself instructs it's followers to not allow freedom of religion or freedom of speech and to execute those who do.
      So I agree entirely, faith (in the case of major monotheistic faiths) is the antithesis to freedom and choice.

      "Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden.  When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death.  (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)"

      "One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men.  During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD's name.  So the man was brought to Moses for judgment.  His mother's name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan.  They put the man in custody until the LORD's will in the matter should become clear.  Then the LORD said to Moses, "Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head.  Then let the entire community stone him to death.  Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished.  Anyone who blasphemes the LORD's name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel.  Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD's name will surely die.  (Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT)"`

      1. profile image0
        Sooner28posted 5 years agoin reply to this

        I miss the Hitch.

  2. tirelesstraveler profile image79
    tirelesstravelerposted 5 years ago

    Sooner,when I can think of something cogent to say I will say it. Wow there are so many things going on in your discussion it's hard to parse them out.

  3. profile image0
    Sooner28posted 5 years ago

    This is a status from someone on Facebook who believes in a traditional form of Christianity.

    "I am going out on a limb here, but I have a challenge for my Facebook sisters who claim the name of Christ. Have you looked through the eyes of Jesus at the photos you post or allow others to post of you? Are you presenting your body as the Temple of the Holy Spirit? If Jesus sent you a friend request, would you change your profile picture? How does your Father feel when he sees his daughter plastering a Bible verse over her bare butt for all the world to see? Is your freedom in Christ causing others to stumble? "You are not your own. You are bought with a price. Therefore, glorify God in your bodies..." Satan peddles enough flesh. We are Daughters of the Most High. Let's act like it."  My emphasis

    This is quite a disturbing post.  It initially appears as good advice, but ends up not only using guilty to ensure compliance, but reminding the reader that God is your master; there is no self-ownership or autonomy.  You belong to God!

  4. maxoxam41 profile image72
    maxoxam41posted 5 years ago

    Fascism stepped up because of the economical situation of Germany.

    1. profile image0
      Sooner28posted 5 years agoin reply to this

      Anytime the economy goes sour, people immediately crave a dictatorship?  I think that glosses over the complexities of the situation.  People must be psychologically predisposed to accept the idea of a dictatorship at all.

      1. Josak profile image60
        Josakposted 5 years agoin reply to this

        People crave a radical solution, be it Communist, Fascist etc. something that they believe will fix the problem immediately.
        See what is happening with the Golden Dawn in Greece for example.


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