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What do you wish to share with others about the facts concerning marriage in general. It has a long history. What about marriage interests or benefits YOU?
Or is there anything about marriage that irritates you or does not prove beneficial for you?
It was the 70's which brought forth the increased incidence of people of living together. For one thing it was it was cheaper. Then, President Reagan allowed tax breaks for married couples...
Maybe, ultimately, it would be better to not require "marriage" at all. Then equality would not be an issue.
How far we have come from the days when children conceived outside of marriage were considered "illegitimate".
If marriage is so great why is divorce so common?
If marriage is so great why do not more people get married even when they get pregnant or adopt children? Shall we ask Angelina J. and Brad Pitt?
"After about five years, it's all about the house." How often does one hear this statement?
Who really benefits from marriage?
Offhand I would say children only benefit when the adults do, too. If the adults are unhappy being married, so are the kids.
Is "happiness" really part of marriage? I think marriage is the cause of having to use *Abilify! * along with one's anti-depressant. LOL. I keep hearing this advertisement on TV. But, when I glance over, the animated woman is depicted with a very loving peaceful family! So, I don't get that ad.
Abilify should be illegal. The side effects of this drug make marriage look like a walk in the park...
(...which it probably started out that way.
For the sake of your children keep taking that walk in the park!
And don't let your marriage drive you to the point of taking pharmaceuticals!)
I wonder how many single people take anti-depressant drugs compared to married people.
* "From the very beginning of the Christian Church, marriage law and theology have been a major matter."
* "The foundation of Western tradition of Christian marriages have been the teachings of Jesus Christ and the Apostle Paul."
* "Catholics, Eastern Orthodox Christians, and many Anglicans consider marriage, termed holy matrimony, to be an expression of divine grace, termed a sacrament or mystery." (All quotes from Wikipedia)
"From early Christian Era, 30 to 325 ce marriage was thought of as a private matter with no uniform religious or other ceremony being required. However, bishop Ignatius of Antioch, writing around 110 to bishop Polycarp of Smyrna exhorts, 'It becomes both men and women who marry to form their union with the approval of the bishop, that their marriage may be according to God and not after their own lust.' " Wikipedia
The Protestant Reformation introduced rules and requirements for marriage including keeping records of marriages, thus the state became involved. In 1553 Lord Hardwicke instituted religious ceremony, observed by witnesses, to combat clandestine or irregular marriages. It is known as the Lord Hardwicke Act.
Then, in the early modern period, John Calvin and the Protestants created the Marriage Ordinance of Geneva which required both "state registration" and "church consecration" in order for any marriage to be recognized as legal.
These churches perform same gender marriages: Unitarian Universalist, Metropolitan Community Church, Quaker, United Church of Canada, United Church of Christ and Reform Jewish Congregation, Anglican diocese...etc.
However, according to Wikipedia proponents of Civil Unions consider them to be a practical way to avoid "controversial issues surrounding marriage and the religious source of the term." These proponents also declare that Civil Unions solve the problems of hospital visitation, and the legal transfer of property and that they provide equality.
In conclusion, I think Civil Unions would be the best solution for same sex partnerships which cannot be defined as matrimony, (since Mater means "mother" in latin.)
Yet, those people will be considered "married."
Seems to me, since the USA has a constitutional guarantee of freedom of worship and a constitutional guarantee of equal protection under the law for all citizens, if the state recognizes a marriage performed in one church as legal, conferring benefits and rights to the couple, then the state must also recognize a marriage performed by another church as legal, conferring benefits and rights to the couple.
And since the government performs marriages for some couples (both of whom are informed, competent, consenting adults) then the government should--in fact, must--perform marriages for all such couples who wish to be married.
Unless you want to establish a state religion, or deny equality under the law to some citizens, both of which are unconstitutional.
Ill say this for you Kathyrn, when a thread doesn't go anywhere, you certainly don't give up the ship!
It is going somewhere for me! I'm happy sailing along by myself. I learn alot from myself!
Thank You for informing me of that fact. However, I think most things may be true. But you are right. I should drag out my expensive set of World Book Encyclopedias that are buried in my closet.
Would you trust the information in them?
Well he's right to an extent... my kids aren't even allowed to use it for school papers, but then how important are school papers in the scheme of things?
How important are school papers in the scheme of things?
In the scheme of what things?
Oooh, you've started a new subject. You're tricky like a ninja.
In the scheme of life of course.
In the scheme of life. Well, since it's a beautiful day out here on the ocean... why not?
I think your school is very wise to insist on other forms of references other than wikipedia and therefore a worthwhile school to take seriously! if we don't see school papers as important in the scheme of life what can we see as important? Writing is very important. Research is very important. The truth is very important. Effort is very important. Focus and concentration is very important. Thinking is very important. I guess that was your point.
I'll be getting out my encyclopedias, now. Look at that flock of pelicans!
Much like wikipedia, they were also full of shyte.
- what the pelicans... or the encyclopedias?
Okay, so Ill go to the library and get books on the topic. There is a public library I pay taxes for, right up the street. Good, I didn't want to drag out all those heavy encyclopedias anyway.
But, now no one will come on board this thread since It called for FACTS. Who has time to go to the library or drag out their books?
Fine: Opinions based on life experiences, observations and logical deductions are just as interesting and valid as facts.
Make it a flock of seagulls and perhaps you can revive a hairstyle!
We are about to celebrate our 25th anniversary. Our daughter with multiple disabilities will soon be 21. If everyone involved can focus on the rest of their family, rather than themselves, all will be happy. Much easier said than done, but true. If either party just worries about what is in it for them, they will be free again soon enough.
- yes, that is what you might have signed up for before you reincarnated. It seems like some people were destined to find each other and marry. Many people in my family and extended family seem destined to be together!
There are many things to learn here on earth. Giving up ego is one of them.
Since you seem to be discussing marriage from many different angles, I'll add my two cents. I think that the legal and religious aspects of marriage have made for a lot of unhappy people. This notion that marriage is for life is causing a lot of unnecessary grief. If we all just accepted that happily mating for life is the exception rather than the norm, we would all be a lot happier. I'm not saying that one should ignore commitment and jump ship when things get difficult, but the idea that it's immoral or wrong to want to have a different partner is silly. People change; some grow spiritually and intellectually while their partners stagnate. What you want in a partner at 20 is usually different from what you want at 40 and different again when you are 60. It is fantasy to think that two people are going to fall in love at 20 and still adore each other and be happy 20 or 40 years later. Yes, there are couples that remain happily together for life; that is great. But there are more who either divorce or remain unhappily together because of legal and moral societal pressures.
I know. I just witnessed an older couple who act the same, every time I am in their company... in a word: one-uppy... their life together is an endless battle of power-tripiness. There is only one solution for some couples! But, they won't dare do it.
Even my own father told me he would divorce my mother... except for the money involved. HA! He got over that, though and apparently loves her again... well, he's putting on the show... Pretty much, head back in the sand... well, maybe not... well, I hope not...
I am happy they're still together.
Isn't that funny?
I think people who diss marriage have no idea about what it means to have a deep, meaningful, loving and committed relationship. My father was married to my mother for 56 years, my one brother was married just as long, my other brother has been married for 45 years and I have been happily married for 26 years. If people fail in their relationships, it is not the fault of marriage....it is the flaws in people.
- like flaws that persist and do not change or somehow get resolved. Some people were ruined for life by their parents and can't change for the world, for a marriage partner.
Warning: Do not marry someone if you think you can fix that person.
You Can't !
Once a person is an adult, that's it ... the character and tendencies are indelible.
TIMETRAVELLER2 I couldn't agree with you more , and I think because you came from an intact family it helped mold you and your siblings to have faith in marriages , you are lucky. I wish when I get married my husband and I would stick with each other until we grow old, that would be such a tremendous blessing.
Thanks,I hope I will. I have a question though , in our modern time do couples have to split the expenses like 50/50 or husbands is still considered as the primary provider? 'Cause when my boyfriend and I had this discussion he got pissed off just because I said that especially when I added that he should be the primary provider because he is the guy. For him, he said, couples should be equal in all things that are involved in their relationship especially with the expenses. And he does not approved of my idea because "he is the guy" . I don't know, I got disappointed and i thought to myself was I wrong? What If I cannot work because of the kids, I thought he might treat me differently then...
Hi, Ellonwee. This is a very good question. I wish others would chime in on it. I would like to know what the modern guy thinks.
The fact is, I believe you are completely right in your thinking. What if you get pregnant? If he expects you to work, then you will have to put the child in daycare and then preschool. I could not put my children into the hands of others. I loved them too much. Plus, when I did once or twice, bad things would happen!
My daughter's elbow became dislocated and I had to learn how to pop it into place for the rest of the year, since it had a tendency to pop out after that day. The daycare provider informed me that she was a heavy girl (at two) and it happened when she hung (unsupervised) on the swing set. (Needless to say, I quit my new job)
My son would cry and cry with the lady who watched him, while I tried to go back to college. I found out she was a smoker! I quit college. I know a woman who worked at JPL. Her son was left in a cold room with a fan blowing on him and he had a wet diaper. She found him freezing, shivering and crying when she rushed away from work to the sitter's on a whim!
No one loves your child like you do. No one. Stay home with your child at least until he is three or four or better yet five and in kindergarten. So, in choosing wisely, I would try to find a man who knows how to love you and could love your child or children at least as much as he loves you. Finances is an important part of the man's contribution to a happy family and a happy home. Unless he sees this clearly...
don't even risk pregnancy at all. You might want to wear a T shirt that says "Step away from the eggs! "
Unfortunately, today, buying a house requires two incomes. So don't buy a house. Your man should be willing to foot most of the bill. Of, course you will have women and men who do not agree with me.
Bring it on.
Obviously it's a private decision to be made by a couple.
My two cents is: in the modern day and age I think it's reasonable for both people to have jobs rather than one being supported by the other but that in my view takes a hiatus for pregnancy and early childhood, then at least one parent (usually the mother but does not have to be) should stop working for a while to care for the child for those first few years, once the child goes back to school then both partners can go back to work. Just my take.
I certainly don't agree that women should be expected to stay home because they are women and it is just as bad to expect men to work to provide for their partners "because they are men".
Thanks for this Josak , society now has different views I can see, I will keep this in mind. I know that guys do not want to be treated as such ... is that the reason guys are having mistresses or third party? but, how ironic because when they have third party or mistress they shower them with gifts too ...
Women have figured out by now, that taking care of a man, a home, and children is a full time job. Don't sign up for this job, women, unless you have appropriate support.
That is my advice.
(BTW It is a g i v e n in this thread, that everyone's opinion is just that... their own opinion.)
Imagine a piece of cake on a small serving plate: The plate, the cake and the frosting. This can be an analogy for a good marriage/relationship partner for/of either gender. The plate represents the support. The cake represents all that is good and loving about the individual. The frosting? Sex. Most people impulsively go after the frosting first.
Without frosting, the cake is pretty boring. One could argue that it isn't even palatable over a long period of time, as it is missing something that makes it just right.
Also, what if you love the cake but hate the frosting? Bad frosting can ruin a good cake.
I believe it is important to taste the frosting before you get too far into the cake.
LOL... Its also important to make sure the cake doesn't have pieces of pickle baked into it!
- Better taste the cake first.
...usually when you eat the frosting first you feel compelled to eat the cake no matter what is in it!
...because the sugary frosting can be addicting.
Kahlil Gibran said it best, Marriage should be lke two trees growing in the forest, close enough together that their branches touch, yet far enough apart for the wind to blow between them.
Kathryn, I laughed when you said "Step away from the eggs"! I might wear a shirt like that , and my boyfriend.. I can imagine now would be curious as to where I got the idea from. I absolutely do not want to get pregnant or be married right now , what with all the questions inside my head but thank you so much for the advice. I just don't want to experience what other people are having to live with right now,like being pregnant and getting married with little idea what they are about to experience or what they are supposed to do and just shouldering on life with their partner without them realizing it or realizing it now but is too late for them because they have established their routine already and knowing in their hearts that they could somehow have thought twice because now they know the real deal...
Even though there are many failed marriages out there I still believe in it, but sometimes afraid of it too. I think I am afraid of myself more because I might do or say something that would be the very fire that will engulf my marriage and I do not want that to happen, I just want to be happy... so that is why I would like to know what marriage is about now in our time, the more knowledge I have the better partner and parent I will be. Thanks you all for your insights and Kathryn for sharing your experiences with your kids, I know that good mothers always sacrifice for their kids, I can only imagine how hard it is to give up things you have started, but yes, i think that is the best thing to do too because no one would ever love or take care of your children like you do. But I know for the guys point of view it is not also easy to provide for a family because they will be giving up some things too, for their family. So yes, both should be working , the husband and the wife, but, I still think that because of the pregnancy eventually the guys is still the primary provider, do not get me wrong but of course it is a good thing too if wives also has their own jobs, anyway nowadays it is hard to be dependent of someone. I read one quote before , it says there , being dependent of others exposes you to possible betrayal and hurt. It is sad, but that is human nature. So, it is still best for wives to be independent but if she finds a man (which I think is next to impossible nowadays) that has no problem with being the primary provider then she is lucky.
My older sister has three kids, not married, but the father of her children and her are living together ,the guy does not have a job not even educated I really don't know what she saw with that guy, my sister provides everything for her family. She is just making the ends meet for them. I absolutely do not want to experience that, I will feel sorry not just for myself but most especially for the kids.
Yes, appropriate support is what what women needed , but guys most of the times men are afraid of that because they think that women would be so dependent of them when they do. But , please let me enlighten you that the more guys shows support for their partners the more that the relationship will be smoother and happier...because a happy woman will do also everything for her guy.
About the frosting...I think it should be done responsibly and yes for me frosting is really important, the more excite it creates the happier the couple would be, and when i say excite of course it should a good excite haha!
I totally agree with couples having separate room and one room also for them to share with. I told my boyfriend of that idea last year , and he is adamant that when we get married we should have just one room , but I am also adamant that we should have separate rooms , and I think he will be okay with that. i believe that couples should still have their own space to have their own individuality be intact , sometimes couple tends to be tired of one another and of themselves too because they thought that they are losing themselves in the process. being a happy individual for me is being a good partner.
- trust your instincts, Ellonwee. Only You can prevent forrest fires!
Also, it is true that girls need to focus on a career and get that underway before they pregnant. They need to be able to fall back on something, just in case. Nothing is guaranteed in life. Also, you need to fulfill your passions in life. However, you will pretty much have to put them on hold for awhile.
Some people want to raise a family and that is their passion. They are the lucky ones. If you want to be an artist or a musician, don't raise a family. Know what you want out of life. There are alot of human beings walking around on the earth. No one is obligated to add more.
Thanks again for your wisdom Kathryn I hope that young girls out there who wants to be married someday will start to think like the way you do. Personally I agree with you when you said that we should be more focused first in our career before we start having our family, I think it is really hard to juggle family and personal dreams ....but when one is up for the for the challenge and love it in every way then there is no problem with that.
My personal opinion on marriage is that it's great. While the religious side of it is meaningless to me the old fashion parts are not. I enjoy being in the wife role. Could I do the same without a piece of paper? Sure but I like knowing that we have both taken a chance on each other knowing what the possible outcomes are. I get to be wife, mom, caretaker of the house, raise my children, and commit to my husband. I'm happy with that!
They used to be a time when marriage marked a change in people's lives. It was the defining moment when one proudly stepped forward as husband/wife. Marriage meant a commitment not simply to the documents one might sign but also a personal commitment to one's self and one's partner.
The idea of entering into a marriage signifies to each individual that change must take place within one another so that this union could be successful. I find marriage should be an outpouring of one's self so that tomorrow might shine from the contributions of those who have embarked upon marriage.
In today's modern age I don't see marriage has changed but rather the kinds of people and the way people look at marriage has changed. The sanctity of marriage has now become a joke, people can marry in clown suits or people can constantly play Three Stooges jokes on one another and profess to want to get married. People say they want to get married but they work on being individuals in that marriage such as finding contracts to keep what they had before the 2 met. Marriage these days is at least to me seems like everything else people really don't want to be committed to it.
At the rate we're going I do believe marriage will one day be found only in the dictionary.
Ive been married for 27 years. I got married when I was 17 years old (I didn't get pregnant, I just fell in love young. ) My marriage went thru the most horrible trials the past 6 years. We stayed married. We didn't have much of a relationship. We mainly just parented together and my husband attended every kind of help therapy he could get. We are just now at the place where it seems a healing is taking place. We hit bottom, as a couple and personally, but the only thing we did right was not to give up. There is still hope for marriage when couples don't give up hope.
I commended the two of you on your determination to staying together because based on your comments I'm sure the two of you faced some hard times. You are correct there is hope for marriage if like you and yours people have the fortitude to see that their union is worth saving.
Thank you. I feel God did the work in both of our hearts, He was our only hope. It was a very long, hard, miserable road, but we are starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel. Our kids will benefit in the long run.
Span Star * I agree with you,some people just view marriage now as something they have to do because everyone is doing it. And if something happened they can always look for another one who is richer and more famous , how sad...
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