What are your thoughts on Obamacare?

1. 61

   progressivedigestposted 10 years ago

   I'm interested to see what everyone has to say about this legislature.

   replyreport
   1. 95

      wildernessposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      A very nice and generous gesture, at least if you're not one of the ones footing the bill.  Also a nearly sure fire road to bankruptcy if allowed to continue without massive changes.
      
      2-3 years before we'll know if I'm right or not.

      replyreport
      1. 77

         Levellandmikeposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         You ain't gotta wait that long....I already know you're right

         replyreport
   2. 0

      Onusonusposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Socialized medicine, medicare, medicaid, those don't work. Lets try another one!

      replyreport
      1. 77

         Levellandmikeposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         Just take a look at the VA if you want to see how this is all gonna shake out.

         replyreport
         1. 60

            Josakposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            Way way way better than the alternative like the VA? Is that how it's going to turn out?
            
            You mean the VA that has the highest quality care in the country? OH NO!!! 
            
            http://www.marketwatch.com/story/its-ha … 2010-06-02

            replyreport
            1. 95

               wildernessposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               Now I know I have no proof, nothing you would ever respect, but my son worked in the VA hospital in admissions and I've know quite a few vets that obtained care at various sites.
               
               Not a single one has anything good to say about it, and the stories from my son would curl your hair.  He can go there (he's a veteran) but refuses to do so even though his cost for care rises considerably.  What he has to say about the doctors and the care is truly scary.

               replyreport
               1. 60

                  Josakposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                  I can only point to stats, by those the VA has far better quality of care than the median and for two years it was better than any insurance company (now I believe one has passed it). VA hospitals also have the best survival rates and lowest secondary infection rates in the country. I can't really debate on what your son saw.

                  replyreport
                  1. 95

                     wildernessposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                     Insurance companies have zero quality of care - there isn't even a doctor there that will examine you.
                     
                     But yes - that's the problem.  I have only anecdotal evidence and even though it is universal throughout every person I've ever talked to, I also recognize that happy people don't generally go around saying so.  Only the unhappy ones do that.
                     
                     Nevertheless I took it with a grain of salt until the kid worked there - now, even recognizing that it could be just the one facility, I am still extremely skeptical about the quality of care the VA offers at the hospitals.

                     replyreport
                  2. 60

                     Silverspeederposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                     For gods sake don't let it become anything like the UK's NHS or you will regret it.

                     replyreport
                     1. 60

                        Josakposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                        The NHS has better results and costs about a third of what our care does per capita. But yes it is the worst system in Western Europe.

                        replyreport
                     2. 83

                        psycheskinnerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                        Too late.  It already is just like the NHS, but more expensive and with more bureaucracy.

                        replyreport
      2. 60

         Josakposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         Except for the dozens of countries with better healthcare than us which is universal and cheaper. Yeah totally doesn't work...

         replyreport
         1. 0

            Onusonusposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            You mean the ones in the Eurozone that are bankrupting themselves into economic colapse? Sure.
            Nikita Khrushchev said he would feed America small doses of socialism until our economy completely colapses. Nobody knows how to destroy an economy better than a socialist.

            replyreport
            1. 60

               Josakposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               No I mean all of the first world most of which has far less debt than us.
               
               Nikita Khrushchev never said any such thing it's just another easy way to pick out an ignorant conservative, like most of their claims they just heard it somewhere and that is conservative fact checking for you.
               
               Finally why don't you go have a look what the two richest nations major per capita are and what their governmental system has been for about 40 years. Or the top say ten quality of life nations. Or say the top ten fastest growing economies in the world.
               
               What's that they are dominated by socialist nations? Amazing.

               replyreport
               1. 95

                  wildernessposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                  Expressed as a percentage of GNP I find that hard to believe.  Even though Obama has certainly done his share, it's still really hard to believe.

                  replyreport
                  1. 60

                     Josakposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                     What are you referring to sorry?
                     
                     Edit: I see sorry very slow on my part.
                     
                     Our debt as % of GDP is 105% (let's eliminate Obama for your comment) when Obama took power it was about 100%
                     
                     Norway has 30.3%, Switzerland 46.7%, Sweden 32%, Finland: 30.3%  etc. etc.
                     
                     It's those spend crazy socialists is what it is isn't it weird how our debt problem started with Reagan, was controlled by Clinton and exploded under Bush yet somehow it's the socialist's fault?

                     replyreport
                     1. 95

                        wildernessposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                        Cherry picking the lowest numbers does not give an indication of "most".  How about the UK, Greece and Turkey?  Or the other European countries bordering on bankruptcy?
                        
                        Given that 105% is quite high, IMHO, I still question the "most" thing.

                        replyreport
                        1. 60

                           Josakposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                           Sorry I just picked the more socialist ones, that was my method.

                           replyreport
                        2. 60

                           Josakposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                           The UK which is probably the most conservative western European nation has 88.7% and Turkey has 35%.
                           
                           I think there are only four nations. Portugal, Italy, Greece and Ireland. Which makes most having much less.

                           replyreport
               2. 0

                  Onusonusposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                  Sure he did. He said it to the secretary of agriculture in 1959. I realize you have to take the word of a prominent American over the word of A commie so naturally you would side with the commie. But that doesn't mean it wasn't said.
                  
                  And we can give those "prosperous" countries a decade or so and see if they aren't in the same spot as Greece, Ireland, Spain, Italy, and Portugal are in now. "But hey lets try it out anyway!"
                  Thanks, but no thanks.

                  replyreport
                  1. 60

                     Josakposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                     Nope I recommend a book called "They never said it" The minister of agriculture later "clarified" what he had heard and it was nothing of the sort. Even if that was not the case someone claiming they heard someone say something is not a reliable quotation.
                     
                     They have had more almost five decades of growth and success since adopting this system but you keep clinging to the doom and gloom predictions if you like. It's great for the left, the more conservatives do it the more out of step with reality they appear and the more they will lose. 
                     
                     Half a century but I am *sure* the collapse is just around the corner
                     
                     In the meantime the US is already there with it's conservative policies. They have an average one third of the debt compared to GDP. They kick our ass in everything actually, they even rank higher on the freedom and democracy index.
                     
                     Not to mention Italy has had conservative governments since 2000.
                     Greece had conservative governments 8 of the last ten years
                     Portugal has been conservative since 2006
                     and Ireland is centrist.
                     
                     Every leftist European nation is doing very well.

                     replyreport
                     1. 0

                        Onusonusposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                        The quote is disputable. Still no hard evidence one way or another, I'll take the word of the American over the Commie.
                        So instead of waiting a few decades we can see all the wonderful commie economies on the collapse right now.
                        Ah just look at all those eurozone countries dropping off like flies!
                        
                        
                        I hear Cyprus is beginning to seize on personal bank accounts too! Yay socialism!

                        replyreport
                        1. 60

                           Josakposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                           So you just went ahead and listed absolutely no socialist countries, except France which became socialist a few months ago.
                           
                           Not to mention only Spain, Italy and Greece have anything to be concerned about on the graph, the US has an average 20 day delay which is about the same as France.
                           
                           Nice work

                           replyreport
                           1. 0

                              Onusonusposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                              President of Greece: Karolos Papoulias- Socialist
                              President of France: François Hollande- Socialist
                              President of Germany: Joachim Gauck- Socialist
                              And Cyprus' government seizing bank accounts? Well that would be a first for the free market. But not for socialists. 
                              
                              Oh, I almost forgot. As for America being neck and neck with France:
                              President of the United States: Barack Obama- Socialist

                              replyreport
   3. 77

      Quilligrapherposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Good evening, Ms. Lassiter. Welcome to Hubpages and welcome to the chaos of this forum.
      
      My thoughts about Obamacare only have value to me. However, I am disturbed to learn that a large segment of the American public is living in total darkness about this significant piece of legislation.
      
      As the nation approaches full implementation of the law in 2014, a study conducted in April 2013 reveals about 40% of those surveyed were unsure that Obamacare still existed and another 25% said they did not know if it existed or did not answer at all. As scary as this is, it gets worse. An additional 7% thought the Supreme Court had overturned it while an amazing 12% thought it was no longer a law because the Congress had repealed it.
      {1}
      
      A misinformed public is certainly not new. Still, it is particularly interesting to learn that more than half of Americans know that Obamacare is still the law of the land and they are in favor of the law but still divided on why they feel as they do.   
      
      CNN reported on May 27, 2013, “According to the poll, 43% of the public says it supports the health care law, a figure that's mostly unchanged in CNN polling since the measure was passed in 2010… Fifty-four percent of those questioned say they oppose the law, also relatively unchanged since 2010.” {2} This does not mean 54% want to see the law repealed, however, so do not jump to the wrong conclusion as so many others have. Here is why!
      
      When the CNN/ORC pollsters queried those opposed to the law more closely, they discovered that of the 54% expressing opposition to the existing law, “The survey indicates that 35% oppose the health care law because it's too liberal, with 16% saying they oppose the measure because it isn't liberal enough.” {3} In other words, 59% of Americans support a system that is equal to or more liberal than Obamacare, while 35% do not. {4} That is quite different than what many opponents of the law are repeating around here but it is the truth.
      
      Thank you, Ms. Lassiter, for starting this thread. We are all likely to learn from it.
      
      {1}
      http://kff.org/health-reform/poll-findi … pril-2013/
      {2}
      http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/20 … -care-law/
      {3} http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2013/image … repoll.pdf
      {4} http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/29/opinion/c … ?hpt=hp_t4

      replyreport
2. 77

   Levellandmikeposted 10 years ago

   It's a boondoggle.

   replyreport
3. 80

   Mighty Momposted 10 years ago

   Welcome news for millions of uninsured Americans.
   Changes being made to health care delivery are long overdue.

   replyreport
   1. 77

      Levellandmikeposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Mighty Mom, if you actually knew what is in this legislation: the miles of red tape, the new taxes and fees, the restrictions and exemptions, the sheer size and scope of the bureaucracy, the actual cost, the fact that there 70,000-plus pages of regulations, you'd be just as opposed as I am.

      replyreport
4. 83

   psycheskinnerposted 10 years ago

   It is one of the things my tax supports that I actually believe in and agree with.  No one should be left to suffer preventable illness or disability just due to poverty.

   replyreport
   1. 95

      wildernessposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Agreed.  No one should suffer preventable (or "fixable") illness or injury due to poverty. 
      
      The question that somehow is ignored by the proponents is can we back up that statement with the cold hard cash to carry it out with?  They tiptoe around it, they lie about it and they ignore it as if it isn't there, but it is there.  Time will tell who is right - we can and therefore should pay the price or we can't and the country goes bankrupt, causing ten times the suffering.

      replyreport
      1. 60

         Josakposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         The answer is yes obviously, we are the third wealthiest nation in the world per capita and the rest of the first world (and significant parts of the third world) have gone ahead and done so very successfully. Therefore to argue we can't is ludicrous.

         replyreport
      2. 83

         psycheskinnerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         I would cut a lot of other programs before that one.  Unlike many people I don't mind how much tax I pay--I just want it to be spent on things that are meaningful.  Stuff like tax breaks for casinos, pork to get people re-elected etc.  That is what needs to go.

         replyreport
5. 84

   Wayne Brownposted 10 years ago

   No doubt our healthcare system is in need of some revamping but not one that puts the government at the forefront of the operation aspects of it taking away the liberty of choice and the individual freedom to decide one's own fate.  The administration reins are handed out to the IRS to put the financial teeth into something which will ultimately prove to be very unpopular with the whole of the American people.  Those too poor to afford medical insurance now will be too poor to afford it under this umbrella unless it is given to them.  Some are speculating that free coverage will only amount to some 2% of the population...a number which does not compute when one can easily determine that more than 15% of the people are living below the poverty line in the USA.  Obviously those in that sector cannot afford to pay for health insurance under today's conditions or under Obamacare.  This legislation is not about insurance, medical practices, better healthcare options, etc....it is totally about power and control of the U.S. government over the lives of the individual citizens....the power to dictate. ~WB

   replyreport
6. 83

   psycheskinnerposted 10 years ago

   Expressed as a % of GDP the US spends more in healthcare than any other country, mostly by a large margin.  And yet they languish midlist of life-span and infant mortality, and top the charts in terms of problems like obesity.
   
   This would suggest that, all other things being equal, socialized care is cheaper.  Of course all other things are actually not equal.  It gets very complicated very quickly.  The US is a very quirky country.
   
   But the idea that socialized systems have higher costs, higher tax rates and lower outcomes just doesn't hold up at the national level.

   replyreport