$56.2 billion just for the intelligent budget last year!
Hello Max.
You can not possibly be suggesting that the US eliminate spending for intelligence gathering operations. This $56.2 billion is not unreasonable and it accounts for less than 1.5% of the $3.8 trillion in government outlays during 2012. {1}
Using the scale of an average employee in NY State working in the private sector, this amount is equivalent to spending $14 of her $933 weekly salary for reading and learning materials that keep her informed about local and world events. {2}
Education Answer also contributed the following…
“56.2 billion dollars in borrowed money, to be exact.”
(Greetings EA. Howzit goin’?)
To be exact, EA, $56.2 billion is less than 5% of the $1.3 trillion added to the total national public debt outstanding during 2012. {3}
In September, 2012, the Treasury Department was paying 00.1 percent interest on a 3 month T-bill. {4}
The cost of borrowing $56.2 billion for one year increases the annual expenditures by 00.006% per year.
Therefore, if we are practical, rational, and realistic, we should know that we could not catch up on past due mortgage payments by slashing the tip we slip to our barber.
Maxoxam41 also wrote…
“And we don't have any money to save our country.”
The $716 B spent for national defense was all about saving our country. Some knowledge about how the government spends is clearly missing. Other expenditures in fiscal year 2012 included…
Transportation $102 B
Education, Training, Employment
and Social Services $139 B
Health $361 B
Veterans Benefits and Services $130 B
Administration of Justice $62.0 B
{5}
“We can’t be in an ideological battle to redeem the soul of the country if we don’t have the facts.” ~ Tavis Smiley
We need to carefully examine the facts, Max, because we already have a glut of opinions.
{1} http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Unite … ral_budget
{2} http://www.bls.gov/ro2/aeearnny.htm
{3} http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/debt/s … dYear=2012
{4} http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/22/busin … .html?_r=0
{5} http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Unite … ral_budgetHi there Max.
I am so sorry my facts upset you.
I offered you a constructive debate in my first two paragraphs. You ignored them.
“This $56.2 billion is not unreasonable and it accounts for less than 1.5% of the $3.8 trillion in government outlays during 2012.
Using the scale of an average employee in NY State working in the private sector, this amount is equivalent to spending $14 of her $933 weekly salary for reading and learning materials that keep her informed about local and world events.”
I offered you facts and supporting references to indicate US expenditures for intelligence gathering is not unreasonable. Surely, you have facts to prove me wrong.
I also see a claim that “we don't have any money to save our country!” If this is not just bravado on your part then you must have some facts to back up this assertion also.
I would welcome a constructive debate, one that consists of more than anemic USA bashing. I am happy to exchange ideas that include verifiable facts and traceable citations. I am looking forward to seeing if you are too.
Thank you, Max, for sharing. I am sure your pseudo knowledge will be superior to mine.
Hi EA. Your opinion is coming across loud and clear. I thank you for sharing with us.
Both you and the OP implied that spending $56.2B for intelligence gathering in 2013 was too much even though it is $2B less than 2011. {1} I thought it was a reasonable request for the flimsy reasons I gave. However, “the point is that all our spending is bloated,” you say, “so a sliver of a bloated budget is too much to spend.” You did say “too much to spend,” right?
“The budget request lists five major missions for the intelligence agencies: warning American leaders about threats and instability; battling terrorism; countering weapons proliferation; cyberoperations; and counterespionage.” {2}
Based upon your experience in this area, which of these goals would you cut back? If it is your opinion $56.2B is too high, please tell us the right amount and how you arrived at it.
Having enough knowledge about this subject to criticize this spending must mean you also know enough about this subject to offer a solution. I would love to hear it.
Please forgive me if this seems obtuse. With all due respect, I truly mean no offense, EA. Clearly, you object to spending deficits and the national debt. I think most Americans do. However, you joined in with the OP to target a highly complex subject without offering an iota of justification to support your conclusions. Having a high regard for one’s own opinions is not a good reason to criticize the government without doing adequate research and gathering an arsenal of facts. Neither you nor I can pretend to have all the answers unless we first take the time to research all the questions.
I am always grateful to you for all of your valuable contributions, EA. Thank you again.
{1} http://mobile.nytimes.com/2013/08/30/us … gence.html
{2} Ibid.Good Evening, EA.
I do not give backhanded compliments. I do try to be honest about what I see and read. This sometimes leads to remarks that contain both sincere compliments and disserved criticism too. I am sorry that you can not tell the difference and have decided to call them backhanded.
Regarding intelligence gathering, I glean from your comments that you think less is better. Your rationale seems to favor slashing no matter what the consequences to national security. While I too share your concerns about budget deficits, waste in government, and the national debt, I favor targeting and eliminating specific examples of waste. I do not believe indiscriminate, imprudent, or poorly considered cutting is in the best interest of national security. You have made it clear that you do and you are entitled to your opinion.
I thank you again for your extensive reply. I am grateful for the time and effort you invested.Hello, Max. Good to see you back.
I do not want to increase our debt and I never said I do. So let’s really focus on your own OP statement:
You wrote:
“$56.2 billion just for the intelligent [sic] budget last year!
And we don't have any money to save our country!”
While I never said this amount should be increased, you started this thread by implying $56.2B for intelligence gathering was too much to spend in 2013 even though it is $2B less than 2011. {1} I thought it was a reasonable request for the flimsy reasons I gave. You gave no reasons. If it is your opinion $56.2B is too high, please tell us the right amount and why.
When I suggested there would be consequences to national security from slashing funds for gathering intelligence, you replied, “Which consequences?”
I agree with you, the USA is hurting. I also agree that Detroit is hurting. And, yes, there are too many unemployed and homeless. I do not make light of any of these problems but there are other issues too.
You ask "Which consequences?"
Foreign enemies penetrated our borders and killed more than 3,000 Americans on American soil.
I have not forgotten that America is under attack. I believe it would be imprudent to slash funding for gathering intelligence about our enemies without considering any of the consequences.
You ask "Which consequences?"
“The fact that the United States has not suffered a large-scale attack since 9/11 speaks to the country’s counterterrorism successes.” “Indeed since bin Laden’s death, at least nine publicly known Islamist-inspired terror plots against the United States have been foiled, bringing the total number of foiled plots since 9/11 to at least 50.” “47 were thwarted due to the concerted efforts of intelligence and law enforcement.” {2} [Emphasis added.]
You ask "Which consequences?"
“There still were 207 terrorist attacks recorded inside the US in the decade after 9/11 – about 20 per year on average, according to the Global Terrorism Database (GTD) maintained at the University of Maryland, widely regarded as the nation’s most complete tally.” {3}
You ask "Which consequences?"
“September 2009, the feds arrested Naji-bullah Zazi and at least four others. They were arrested for purchasing chemical explosive materials allegedly to bomb the New York subway system.” Wire taps authorized under the Patriot Act contributed to their apprehension. {4}
You ask "Which consequences?"
“Bomb plots targeting the New York Stock Exchange and the city's subway were among more than 50 terrorist acts worldwide thwarted by top-secret surveillance programs since the 2001 al Qaeda attacks on the United States, security officials said Tuesday.” {5} [Emphasis added.]
You ask "Which consequences?"
Our national security represents the consequences. What is the security of the United States worth? Do you have a number in mind? I have no doubt that pro-terrorist supporters around the world would celebrate the US slashing its intelligence programs.
All of that aside, I truly hope you have a great night, Max.
{1} http://mobile.nytimes.com/2013/08/30/us … gence.html
{2} http://www.heritage.org/research/report … -terrorism
{3} http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2013/0427/ … iled-plots
{4} http://www.fox19.com/story/16214431/rea … or-attacks
{5} http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/18/politics/ … index.html
Thank you, EA, for sharing. I am grateful to you for your comments.
- mbuggiehposted 11 years ago
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