NRA is destroying America! Hillary Clinton vows death to Republicans!

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   promisemposted 9 years ago

   I wish I lived in a country where people would debate issues with clear, informed and objective minds, without bias, anger and hatred.
   
   I wish I lived in a country where multi-billionaires didn't control who gets elected to Congress and everything that Congress does and doesn't do.
   
   I wish I lived in a country where people didn't post extremist views and pass around wildly inaccurate "information" about politics and national issues.
   
   How about you?

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      Credence2posted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Human condition is in such a state, you might as well ask a bear to use the toilet.
      
      In this day and age, peace between right and left will always be elusive . The current issues and by extension the very principles of Government and its supposed purpose is up for debate. Never have we been so polarized......
      
      What you wish for is a nirvana, a Mayberry that never really existed anywhere outside of fiction.
      
      So, no peace in our time, wreak havoc and let loose the dogs of war....
      
      Sorry, to start the new year on so dismal a note.

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         Live to Learnposted 9 years agoin reply to this

         How can there be peace when we now know Hillary Clinton wants to exterminate Republicans. I'm still reeling from the revelation. I wonder if that includes right leaning independents. I'm still too young to die.

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            Credence2posted 9 years agoin reply to this

            Much of my post was facetious. We are all being 'worked up' to a certain extent. We have to apply the sieve of common sense to sort out the sensational from the truth, which is always somewhere in the middle.
            
            It is just that opposing issues resonates deeply among the alternate sides, and compromise is becoming all the more difficult to accomplish.
            
            Yes, we are all too young to die! I am a just left of center Democrat, and I am nervous as well.

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            promisemposted 9 years agoin reply to this

            LOL. Great response!
            
            As a right-leaning independent, I share your concern...

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         promisemposted 9 years agoin reply to this

         I agree. My overall concern is that the far right and the far left are dominating the debates by shouting down more reasonable people.
         
         We may never reach the country I describe, but we might be able to move the needle a bit in that direction.

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            Credence2posted 9 years agoin reply to this

            I am looking to hear more from the 'reasonable people' Is there a middle ground, lets see if we can discover one that would appeal to everyone? Which side is being intractable, resisting any idea of compromise? Can a 'moderate' proposal or compromise stand in the public square without being savaged because one side or the other does not get 100 percent of its wish? Once the reasonable alternative bandwagon starts rolling, I would be more than happy to jump aboard.
            
            Take a position, if you would,  and see how it plays among the hubpages forum audience?

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               promisemposted 9 years agoin reply to this

               I know better than to expect everyone to agree on something. We live in a democracy (in theory), and therefore the majority rules.
               
               But I also don't want to drift away from my original point. Extremism and propaganda dominate American politics.

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                  Credence2posted 9 years agoin reply to this

                  We are more contentious today than ever before. I challenge you to provide a 'reasonable' solution to a contentious issue, as a conservative leaning independent, and see if we can find a common ground. If so, we can multiply that by a million fold and perhaps make progress....

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                     promisemposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                     I am more moderate than conservative. Regardless, let's try abortion.
                     
                     My view is that abortion can be legal in the first trimester, legal under only some circumstances in the second trimester (rape, incest, etc.) and illegal in the third. That's a moderate position based on the following reasons.
                     
                     Having witnessed the birth of three children, it is completely incomprehensible to think that an abortion in the third trimester, especially late in the eighth or ninth month, is OK. The fact that healthy babies are born prematurely in the third semester supports the point.
                     
                     On the other hand, there is no logical evidence to support the idea that a fetus is a viable human being in the first trimester. It cannot survive outside the womb.
                     
                     The shrieking extremists on either side of the debate insist there is no middle ground. They have no tolerance for people like me. The conservatives call me a liberal and the liberals call me a conservative.
                     
                     I have met many people who share a more reasonable view on abortion, but they don't know how to articulate it because they are drowned out by extremist propaganda.

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                        wildernessposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                        "On the other hand, there is no logical evidence to support the idea that a fetus is a viable human being in the first trimester. It cannot survive outside the womb."
                        
                        But right here lies the problem, for "human being" is a defined term, and your definition of being viable is the wrong one.  Wrong because we know it to be human by some other test (often unspecified) just as valid as yours. 
                        
                        And with that being the case, there is zero possibility of the two sides coming together - the best that could be hoped for is a compromise that while satisfying no one is at least palatable to both.  Unfortunately, the topic is murder of infants, and there isn't much that can be palatable except to prevent any such thing.  And so the two sides will never either agree or compromise - neither is smart enough to understand that they don't know everything or have the final answer.

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                           promisemposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                           And yet the majority of laws and majority of the population support my definition, which is why abortion is legal in the first trimester and beyond. Otherwise, it would be illegal, wouldn't it?
                           
                           The two "sides" will never come together because they are obsessed with their own ideologies.
                           
                           In the meantime, the rest of us will keep trying to help our country. Some of us would rather be part of the solution than part of the problem.

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                              wildernessposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                              But the majority supporting your definition doesn't seem to be true, either, or at least if it is true then it is a very slim majority.  Again, though that doesn't matter one iota to the far right that has decided a fertilized is a human being and a baby is being murdered.
                              
                              Which is what you said.  I just wish that there could be some compromise - that's what makes our whole system work, but it will never happen here.
                              
                              On a side note, not really having anything to do with anything, is that some people seem to waffle - either a second trimester is human, whereupon abortion is murder, or it is not, whereupon abortion is no more immoral or illegal than cutting your hair is.  There is no in between, where the fetus is human unless the product of incest or rape - that has exactly zero to do with being human or not and I don't really think there is a person alive that would deny that.

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                        Credence2posted 9 years agoin reply to this

                        Ok, Promisem
                        
                        Does you view conform primarily with the provisions set under Roe vs Wade?
                        It appears that they do.
                        
                        We agree that the issue of viability outside the womb is a strong determining factor surrounding the topic of abortion.
                        
                        The Left and Planned Parenthood has put forth little challenge to this idea and the compromised worked out under Roe Vs Wade.
                        
                        But, you let the Right weigh in, and it will tell you that conception is the point where Abortion is to be prohibited.
                        
                        You let the Right weigh in and it closes all abortion clinics without regard for the law as established by the courts.
                        
                        You have the middle ground and the progressives are there and the conservatives are not.
                        
                        I am a progressive/liberal and we compromise knowing that abortion on demand is not in the spirit of Roe vs Wade, but prohibiting the practice in total certainly is not and who in this circumstance is the more unreasonable?
                        
                        For the Right, in this topic, as you will find with many other, there is no middle ground. The extreme position is promoted by the GOP party and those at the top of conservative intellectual thought.
                        
                        Thank you, Sir, may I have another?

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                           promisemposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                           If you are a liberal / progressive, then I applaud your willingness to at least consider a middle ground. With due respect, I have to say I have met many liberals who weren't willing to consider any compromise.

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                              Credence2posted 9 years agoin reply to this

                              Thank you, the liberals are already at the middle ground point, it is the otherside that is promoting hysteria and extremism.

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