Feeling the Bern.......

Jump to Last Post 1-10 of 10 discussions (93 posts)
  1. gmwilliams profile image85
    gmwilliamsposted 7 years ago

    To progressives & liberals, what are the ways that you all believe that Bernie Sanders will improve the United States?  Do you believe that Mr. Sanders have the political experience to improve employment & the status of the middle class?  In essence, what are the ways that Bernie Sanders will make America a more viable nation?

    1. profile image0
      Onusonusposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Sanders wants socialism. Like what the Greeks have. And everyone who lived in poverty and misery in the Eastern European blocks had.
      Because he doesn't understand economics, or the historical catastrophic failures that socialism and communism have caused the world over.

      1. gmwilliams profile image85
        gmwilliamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        +1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 !

      2. Alternative Prime profile image60
        Alternative Primeposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        CONservative Republicans are interested in Ratifying a Failed System of Capitalism here in America which creates a population of SLAVEs while CONCENTRATING almost ALL of our Wealth into the Greedy Hands of a SELECT Few ~

        The United States is NOT a Democracy for this very REASON ~

      3. rhamson profile image71
        rhamsonposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        Like the Greeks. You mean the country where it is a national past time to cheat and avoid paying any taxes? Check out the fuzzy math in their reporting taxable income.

        http://www.businessinsider.com/this-is- … lem-2015-2

        I guess this is all attributable to socialism as compared to our illustrious of late capitalistic democracy. All the corporations are sticking it to this "democracy" of sorts through their paid for life candidates serving them. We are doomed just as Rome was with the overtaking of our system and replacing it with THEIR better system. GEESH!

        1. profile image0
          Onusonusposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          Yeah never mind the fact that the Greek government is taxing the average citizen a 46% income rate. Because taking half of their money away is what really helps an economy grow.

          Economics for dummies- Socialism doesn't work.
          And it is what's destroying the American economy as well. As the number of wealth producers decreases, and the number of benefit receivers increases, the economy collapses. We can always print more money to delay the inevitable a little further.

          1. colorfulone profile image78
            colorfuloneposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            The Ponzi (Ponzi Planet) scheme is to re-inflate the world's economy by money printing. You can't pay your way out of debt with borrowed money or money printing.  We've got lunatics running the asylum and the policies they have implemented have not worked.  smile 

            I mean, Obama came out with the employment figures about a week ago and said how well the economy was in the USA.  hmm

            Now if the economy is a good as Obama says ... what we have right now....is student loans are at a record high.
            Student Loans .3 trillion,
            food stamp recipients are at a record high
            the federal debt at all time record highs
            money printing is at a all time record high
            tuition costs have sky-rocketed 1300% since 1981 
            health care costs have gone up massively
            labor participation has collapsed
            incomes have collapsed
            home ownership has collapsed

            So we do have inflation!

            Wealth and equality though is at a record rate? ...er...So that is what the Central Banks have created, ...its called "hope and hype". wink 

            We've got peek debt, and have gone full Banana Republic, which leads to a currency war.

          2. rhamson profile image71
            rhamsonposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            40% is the average tax rate in Greece but I guess not paying it is the option rather than voting on it and just not paying at all.

            Our choices are how much you own of the government where you don't pay anything. The oligarchal running of this country is better whereby the ones who can most afford it pay little or nothing at all? Get real man we already are socialism in denial.

            1. profile image0
              Onusonusposted 7 years agoin reply to this

              We're not quite socialist yet, It gets much worse. Interesting that some people seem incapable of making the connection with the growing amount of social programs, overreaching government regulations, and record breaking debt, as it correlates to our economic downfall.
              Liberal solution- More government.     

              You should read less Karl Marx and more Adam Smith. One of these views created the worlds largest middle classes, and the other was a complete economic catastrophe.

              1. rhamson profile image71
                rhamsonposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                I only use Marx as an example of what unfettered capitalism creates in a country such as ours. I am not a follower of his but am struck by his predictions of its resolve. You rail against more government but as we have seen the GOP creates such huge deficits and spending increases it is hard to notice the difference between the two parties.[1] The difference is only between the special interests that get a piece of that pie.

                [1] http://www.cato.org/publications/commen … government

                1. profile image0
                  Onusonusposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                  I never said anything about the GOP, in fact I agree with you. They are pretty much the same party. A Hegelian dialect so to speak.

                  If you don't like capitalism because of the cronyism it creates then you should really hate Socialism, because there is no faster way to create a gigantic two class system of haves and have not's than implementing socialism and communism as your nation's economic platform. The evidence is right in front of you, just crack open a history book.

                  1. rhamson profile image71
                    rhamsonposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                    All forms of government have cronyism in them as it is an inherent side effect of politics. It is that in our form of money is speech, it prospers exponentially because of the two sided threat that by regulating it would be socialism in many peoples eyes.

                    Your aforementioned Adam Smith in his Wealth of Nations offered that wealth lay not in gold but in the productive capacity of all people with each seeking to benefit from his or her own labors.His idea that the economy is based on the production of individuals to produce and reproduce income was at the heart of true wealth which would be free for all to pursue. With that in mind It has now become known as the "Virtuous Cycle". A cycle based on trading money for services in a free economy that grows from it's process. Capitalism mixed with a democratic republic has brought us to the brink of ruin because of the greed capitalists have by looking to other regimes for their greed to be rewarded. Capitalism now works because the work is predominantly coming from other countries who do not practice capitalism with our form of government and penalizes the American worker for it. A duplicitous slap in the face if you will. Using another countries form of government and oppression to zero out the rewards of our countries system. In that case capitalism works for those who play the two systems against each other.

                    The pathetic truth is that we bolster our wealth based on a valueless piece of paper we call dollars that are based on a resource in the ground.

                    Maybe if you could extrapolate from your learning what is really going on and not deduce what we have is a working system that rewards all for their work you might make some sense of it all.

                    I will await your next point masquerading as an insult.

          3. Alternative Prime profile image60
            Alternative Primeposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            And giving even MORE or OUR Wealth to CEO's, Corporations, & Wall Street in the form of MASSIVE Tax Cuts like all CONservatives are PAID to do is the ANSWER? ~

            Our economy under a Democratic Administration is STRONG & Vibrant and that's a Un-Deniable FACT of Life ~ It's ALWAYs better under the Democratic Umbrella ~ Of Course it could always be improved upon but the Planned Republican SCAM to give more of our money to the GREEDY Billionaires is just INSANE and everyone knows it ~

            Right now, we are forced to listen to a CON-Man named Trump who is BASHING China while he PROFITS from COMMUNISM and that's a FACT ~ He has ZERO Intentions of Bringing  back jobs to America for this very reason, moreover, he wouldn't have a clue how to do it even if he was sincere ~ sad ~ Go check out his Buddy Carl Icahn who is driving his OWN Company into "JUNK Status" ~ This is TRUMP's Main Trade NEGOTIATOR believe it or NOT sadsadsad

            Wake Up and Open your EYES to the Corporate Control of AMERICA ~ Believe me, it doesn't get much WORSE than a society like ours which is based on the so called "Free Market Capitalism" CON-Job ~

            1. Rodeon profile image57
              Rodeonposted 7 years agoin reply to this

              You seem to have some excellent grip on the world of world politics. Do you write for newspapers sometimes? Really impressive if you do. smile

            2. profile image0
              Onusonusposted 7 years agoin reply to this

              To say that giving tax brakes to corporations is taking money away from other people shows that you have fundamental misunderstanding of how economics works. Here's a clue, when you say "OUR wealth" what you really mean is "THEIR wealth". You didn't earn it, and taking money from people by force is called stealing.

              Taxing a corporation takes money away from the people who created that wealth in the first place and gives it to people who did not. Plus you get to waste a substantial amount of that money on a corrupt government bureaucracy to administer it.

              And you want to give these seedy government bureaucrats more money? By your plan the people will create an all powerful oligarchy faster than any corporate cronyism ever could.

    2. colorfulone profile image78
      colorfuloneposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      When Bernie Sanders announced he was running for president the World Socialist Website published articles on Bernie's track record saying that it "marks a new stage in one of the longest-running political frauds in American history." 

      Senator Bernie has been very conservative at times.  Aw well, here is the link. "His “independence” is as much of a sham as his “socialism.”" hmm 

      Bernie Sanders to seek Democratic presidential nomination
      https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2015/0 … d-m01.html

      The right-wing political record of Bernie Sanders
      https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2015/0 … d-m15.html

      Bernie Sanders’ Elephant in the Room
      http://theantimedia.org/bernie-sanders- … -the-room/


  2. colorfulone profile image78
    colorfuloneposted 7 years ago

    He won't make it more viable.  But, try to tell a B.S. supporter that.  smile

    Under Sander's plan it is the people who earn $200, 000 a year that will be taxed hard,  $250,000 for couples.  Those are not the billionaires. 
    The middle-class will continue to decrease as it is today.  More people in the lower-class and poverty, and the rich will keep on getting richer.

    Bernie pretends he is going to take on Wall Street. Well, to do that he has to finger the big Corruption Bankers that own the Federal Reserve.   He isn't going to do that and risk his life.
    http://www.globalresearch.ca/who-owns-t … erve/10489

    1. gmwilliams profile image85
      gmwilliamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Sadly, he will make  America much worse than it is with his far left socialist policies.

      1. profile image0
        PrettyPantherposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        LOL, I was going to post here, but with this comment, you made it clear you are not really wanting to listen to why Bernie supporters believe his policies will benefit the middle class.

        1. gmwilliams profile image85
          gmwilliamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          Bernie doesn't care about the middle, upper middle & upper classes.  He will further decimate the more affluent classes.  His intentions is to redistribute income.  He is a bona fide socialist verging into communism.  Comrade Bernie ( hearing the International- a song sang during the Russian Revolution). BTW, Bernie isn't going to be elected.  No American in his/her right mind wants an outright socialist.  Americans are flocking to the Donald because they want a more viable economy for the middle class.

      2. Credence2 profile image77
        Credence2posted 7 years agoin reply to this

        America cannot be any worse with the rightwing capitalist junta already in power. Things can only get better with a Sanders candidacy.

        Yes, I am 'feeling the Bern' and the fire will not be quenched until the 'Right' and all of its followers are rendered 'inert'.

      3. colorfulone profile image78
        colorfuloneposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        Here I found the article on CNN Money. If people would bother to read down to where it says...they can see for themselves that what Bernie Sanders is feeding them is more B.S.

        Under ... Higher income tax rates across the board

        But anyone with adjusted gross income over $200,000 ($250,000 for married couples) would then be subject to much higher rates than they currently pay. Instead of the 33%, 35% and 39.6% rates in today's code, they'd be subject to rates of 39.2%, 45.2%, 50.2% and 54.2%, depending on how high their income goes. 
        http://money.cnn.com/2016/03/04/pf/taxe … ers-taxes/   

        Forget about Hillary, she won't stop the bankers from gambling with our money either.  Former president Bill Clinton declared the Glass–Steagall law no more. The central banks get to decide when the economy crashes and when there is a trickle-down under what they call macro-economics.  We need to flush that down the toilet. But, of course they are all rainbows and unicorns because of greed.

        Trump has some genius ideas and I believe they will get him elected.


        1. Credence2 profile image77
          Credence2posted 7 years agoin reply to this

          CNN Money is a reliable source of info, these Sander's tax increases has me nervous. I will investigate further, it may very well be too much.... I will check his campaign materials and see how he justifies the increases.

          1. gmwilliams profile image85
            gmwilliamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            I have said that Bernie has a MUCH WORSE socialist agenda. Americans(well smart ones) aren't falling for Bernie because he is a left winger.  He will be MORE of a disaster for America than the current President.   Now,let's give the devil its due, Donald Trump seems infinitely more promising as a President right now.  He is highly successful as opposed to Bern.   He has ran businesses so he has credibility.   Mr. Trump is no BS but Bernie sadly........IS.   Who is feeling the Donald?!

            Any middle, upper middle, or upper class America who sees Bernie Sanders as a viable president candidate is committing socioeconomic suicide.  Bernie is totally against the interests of the middle, upper middle, & upper classes.  Bernie is more of a Lenin than Obama even will be.  Bernie is an overt left wing socialist.  He is more for the lower, working, & underclass.  He has repeatedly voice this during his campaign.  He is......TROUBLE.  Now, Donald is voicing very viable, even smart socioeconomic solutions for America.   Donald has IT while Bernie DOESN'T and NEVER WILL.

            1. Credence2 profile image77
              Credence2posted 7 years agoin reply to this

              We will have to disagree on this, I don't trust Trump to be any less than the basic aristocrat that he claims that he is not.

              While I may have problems with Bernie's tax positions, I have exponentially more problems with Trump and his positions on a wider array of topics. Life is a series of choices, in the real world my desire to attain to an absolute is impossible, so I have to make my choices based on relative, comparative info.

              I prefer left wing socialist over rightwing authoritarian fascists if I had to choose between the two.  Since the ideal, somewhere in the middle, is not a choice that is  available.

  3. Alternative Prime profile image60
    Alternative Primeposted 7 years ago

    Senator Bernie Sanders is a "Democratic Socialist" which means he's interested in "Community Benefits" where at least a semblance of "Equality" Exists, unlike our current society built upon a Failed System of Capitalism where the Vast Majority of our WEALTH is Concentrated within the pockets of a small select few Fortunate Individuals ~ Even "Capitalist" don't even use that term anymore for fear of the Negative Connotation ~

    The Primary Tax Burden under a Sanders Administration would SHIFT to the Wealthy and be removed from those who cannot afford it ~ A SHIFT from a Multiple Source Health Insurance Program to a "Single Payer" would also be the objective which means a Tax Increase to pay for the new system to be OFFSET by the Elimination of current Health-Care Expenses ~

    If you believe the Status Que is acceptable where Wall Street & Corporations Promote Grotesque Multi-Million Dollar Salaries & Bonuses for CEO's while OBSTRUCTING Minimum WAGE Increases for the American Worker, then you should RUN & VOTE for a Mentally Disturbed Fascist Bigot like Trump or any other CONservative ~ If you believe the TAX Burden should FINALLY be shifted toward those who Use & ABUSE the Masses like SLAVEs to rake in Millions & BILLIONs,  a VOTE for Bernie or Hillary would be in order ~

  4. profile image0
    ahorsebackposted 7 years ago

    Bernie Is a career political  frump , Please Vet Him - Is what I have to say . I live in the state he calls home .   He began his "career" doing nothing , seriously not having a job  until he was about forty years old.   His launch into local politics was because he couldn't , wouldn't work a real job !  Seriously .....Vet his career  yourself !       He is a politi-speech wiz -and that's all he has ever done !

    1. Alternative Prime profile image60
      Alternative Primeposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      If that's all you have to say about a "Man of Integrity" like Senator Bernie Sanders who will finally begin to SHIFT the over-loaded Financial Burden off of the aching shoulders of the Majority of AMERICANs, I can just imagine what you think of a Mentally Disturbed CON-Man Fascist like Donald "Drumpf" Trump who Inherited a FORTUNE, Never worked a REAL Job in his life, and USED our FAILED System of Capitalism to invent investment SCAMs like "Trump University", an apparent fictitious place where he allegedly FLEECED Thousands of Innocent Consumers out of MILLIONs, a cornerstone of his ill-gotten income ~

      And YES, Vet HIM to find the TRUTH ~ You'll be nothing less than ASTONISHED ~ sad  ~

      This is what Con-Man Trump honestly believes ~ WAGES are too HIGH for American Workers ~ $7.25 per hour is TOO High ~ sad  ~ YUP, this Moron actually said that and he will go to WAR with Hard Working Americans if by that miracle he escapes a staight jacket and ends up occupying our White House ~ sad Check it OUT ~ Listen to what this idiot is saying ~ sad He will NOT Raise the Minimum Wage for hard working americans but he is SALIVATING to GIVE More of OUR Wealth to Corporations, CEOs, & Wall Street in the form of MASSIVE Un-Necessary TAX CUTs ~ sad ~ Unbelievable ~


      1. profile image0
        ahorsebackposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        I live where Bernie Sanders spent his entire younger years not even working ,   finally finding a career when he was about forty ,   sure he was "poor " but poor because he was a lazy man , not because of entitlements . Not because he inherited anything , that I know of .   Sen.Sanders began his  sophomoric rise by  promoting the Castro regime , yes ! The Fidel Castro regime .    He is nothing but a too old ,too white , too  socialist , too divisive , too political  moron ,  who can or could do nothing else beside talk socialism until he decided to become a "democratic socialist "  ! So v ote for him  , you deserve him ! AND , you deserve what you will get if he were to win !

        Sen. Sanders is ALL about  social programs for the deserved ,  problem is   in Vermont where he  and I are from ;   social entitlements are the norm , welfare roles are high ,  unemployment rates are plugged   by leftist legislators to be low while everyone is leaving Vermont for better lives .  Now , Why do you think that people would leave  utopia , if it is so good ?   Sen Sanders has helped drive a very liberal state down the drain ...........Vet Him, is All I'm saying  ! Obviously you can't , won't and haven't!

    2. gmwilliams profile image85
      gmwilliamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      I have heard this also.   Bernie= BIG TIME LOSER and who wants that!  At least, the Donald has consistently being proven a winner!

      1. Alternative Prime profile image60
        Alternative Primeposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        In the REAL-World, Trump is a Proven LOSER CON-Man who inherited a Fortune from Daddy and got LUCKY ~ sad ~ If you investigate the FACTs, you'll find he has just as many MONUMENTAL Failures & SCAMs as successful ventures ~

        Moreover, his Un-stable Mental-State will prevent him from becoming President of the United States ~

  5. profile image0
    ahorsebackposted 7 years ago

    Bernie defenders  will go to all ends to defend  who he is , except  for the most important single  fact , Bernie isn't any part of the rhetoric he  so eloquently projects of himself. He's a ex- socialist hippy college debater from  sixties revolutionary days  ,  His love and  writing associations of Fidel Castro for one ,  was quite well known !     My message to Bernie , There is no  surviving European socialism that you compare Americans needs to !

    1. colorfulone profile image78
      colorfuloneposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      "Is this Bernie Sander’s “David Duke” moment? When asked to differentiate his brand of social from the communist leader Fidel Castro, Sanders had little to say. The Univision/CNN/Facebook debate featured video of then Mayor Sanders explaining why he believed the Cuban people had not staged an insurrection against Cuba, and why then President Ronald Reagan was wrong to think that Nicaraguans would do the same against the leftist government there. “They had forgotten that he educated their kids, gave them health care,” he said in the video, adding that the Castros had “totally transformed their society” but also qualifying his statement “You know, not to say that Fidel Castro or Cuba are perfect, they are certainly not.”

      They tired to get him to explain the difference between Bernie Sanders’ brand of socialism and Fidel Castro’s brand of socialism?   Not even Bernie Sanders knows the difference. smile

      http://www.latintimes.com/democratic-de … ami-374005

  6. profile image0
    ahorsebackposted 7 years ago

    Truth of the matter is; is that more people will be  able to take from America's system than give .  That is the Fuel For The Bern !   Bernie has been instrumental in his ability to created a welfare state in Vermont , he has owned this  state since the sixties .  Organized labor is one of his favorites .     Any group of people  that host demands over contributions.  The tax rates in Vermont have been nothing  but expansionism in Government ,welfare roles and  social programs have exploded ,  state employees has doubled or tripled . While the opposite effect in results ,  our youth are leaving the state in droves , business'  have constantly relocated elsewhere ,   University grads , gone for bluer skies anywhere else ,     The single most important thing for Berners to remember is  ,What liberties now  are you now willing to sacrifice to socialism ,---- that you're willing to pay dearly for later ?

  7. profile image0
    ahorsebackposted 7 years ago

    Like it or not , if you knew what the economy knew , Reaganomics  was good for America .   He lowered taxes for  corporate  and main street America ,  there-by creating a  vacuum for jobs because of manufacturing , consumerism , expansionism ,  The mushrooming of jobs , of new company start -ups was  very notable .    For New England where I live  ,the eighties began a boom in many phases of our economy , housing , manufacturing ,  tourisms ,  .......Stop trying to dispel the  success' of the Reagan era !  Remember ..........There is only one truth and what  that truth  doesn't include  is the liberal parroting  of repeating lies until they become  fact !

    1. rhamson profile image71
      rhamsonposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Reaganomics or Voodoo economics as termed by George Bush was a short term payoff to the rich and started the real deficit spending and debt rolling. The idea being that giving tax breaks to the "job creators" would inspire them to invest in industries and business' which would spawn more jobs was really a masquerade for the military build up and the payoff for Reagans elite. Since the myth has been perpetrated we have seen politician after politician promise the same failed policy since with little or no results. We have plunged hopelessly into the abyss of debt in trying to reprove this failure. You cannot take one part of the tax burden out and deprive the other part of it through job loss and make up the difference. History has been very kind to Reagan but his legacy of Voodoo economics has devastated us.

      1. Live to Learn profile image60
        Live to Learnposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        This makes me think of my reaction when Bush had the government send us all a check so we could cash it and go spend it to stimulate the economy. We laughed because we had more pressing things to spend extra cash on. It was like they were clueless to the growing problems of the middle class. Or, they just thought we were too stupid to see a thinly veiled attempt to fatten the wallets of the big companies.

        1. wilderness profile image94
          wildernessposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          Whether the plan worked or not (I don't see that it did much but could be wrong), I don't think the plan was to fatten corporate wallets.  It's true that when the consumer spent that check on corporate products (a new fridge, maybe) a very small portion of that money ends up as profits.  Some of which was returned to the government in the form of taxes and the remainder given to company owners to spend again (minus another chunk of taxes), just like the wage earners that were paid wages out of the price of that fridge did, and continue the cycle.  That's not a "thinly veiled attempt to fatten the wallets of the big companies".

          What makes us so eager to vilify the corporate world that puts food on our table and gas in our cars that we'll use the most ridiculous excuses to demonize them some more?  That they cooperate with our demand for low prices that can only come from the use of foreign labor?  That a huge corporation should make enough profit to give a return on investment of 6 or 7% to it's huge number of owners?  That a tiny handful at the very top earn more than we think they should?

          1. Live to Learn profile image60
            Live to Learnposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            You can rationalize and talk as if big business is our savior. I disagree. Small businesses can offer an alternative so that all the money stays in the United States. And the community it is spent in.

            I'm not advocating shuttering the doors of large corporations, but I do think too much time is spent by our government worrying about their interests and not enough time understanding the needs of the American people.

            1. wilderness profile image94
              wildernessposted 7 years agoin reply to this

              Absolutely they can!  If only the buyers would agree and buy from them...but of course they won't.  They'll buy from whoever has the cheapest price, and that means imports.  How and why do you think WalMart is so successful? 

              The interest and need of the American people is to buy from Americans, paying American wages - not from other countries.  They just won't do it.

              But you didn't respond to the basic question of why we vilify and demonize large corporations so much, down to using arbitrary and irrelevant excuses to get in every little dig possible.  Got a theory?

              1. rhamson profile image71
                rhamsonposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                "Absolutely they can!  If only the buyers would agree and buy from them...but of course they won't.  They'll buy from whoever has the cheapest price, and that means imports.  How and why do you think WalMart is so successful?"

                What have you been smoking? The economy is in shambles and we can "Unite" in a common cause individually to stop buying foreign imports to shore up the economy and jobs? Ridiculous and can never happen as mostly everything that is made overseas as far as commodities is no longer available from a domestic manufacturer. Just look at shoes or textiles for example. The reason why we also buy cheap foreign made products is that we have less of a paycheck as wages have been stagnant and costs are ever increasing. The increasing costs of living in this country will never let anyone support a higher priced item for very long. Your argument is "pie in the sky" dreaming. Let alone the difference in cost of livings between countries you cannot compete with a $0.65 per hour labor cost in say Viet Nam by paying the difference of an American worker who makes $7.00 per hour to do the same job. Not even close.

                1. wilderness profile image94
                  wildernessposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                  No, it's not pie-in-the-sky dreaming.  It's recognition of the reality of the situation we have very stupidly put ourselves in.  For you're right - far too much of our production has left the country...because we won't pay for the labor costs we ourselves require.  Nor is it just our blue collar, production, jobs - we are shipping anything we can to wherever the labor is cheaper.  It's the only way we have (as a business) to remain competitive and convince consumers to buy our product.

                  But I don't see any answer for this, except to wait it out until those countries raise their own standard of living to match ours.  You're right - we won't tolerate the prices that paying a good wage requires.  So what's left?  Protectionism?  Levy huge tariffs on any imports, raising the prices to match what American labor requires?  As you point out, we can't pay those prices and maintain our lifestyle.

                  We've dug a hole for ourselves that I'm not sure we can get out of.

                  1. rhamson profile image71
                    rhamsonposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                    "We've dug a hole for ourselves that I'm not sure we can get out of."

                    This I can totally agree with. And as you say what may be the answer. If Trump wins we may see an answer in his push to destroy the agreements and introduce tariffs. It will be interesting to see.

              2. Live to Learn profile image60
                Live to Learnposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                I tend to appear to vilify large international corporations because they don't care about you or me, or their workers, or anything other than how much money they can make.I don't respect such an attitude so I see no reason to show respect for that business model. You are right. We don't band together. But, we shouldn't have to band together to ensure our government keeps the playing fields level. That should be a given. But, it isn't

                1. wilderness profile image94
                  wildernessposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                  But they DO care about you and me...about as much as we care about them.

                  What is the "business model" that you hate so much?  That business deserves a profit?  That they (generally) give value for value received in approximately equal amounts?  That capitalism rewards effort and ability instead of "to each according to their needs"? 

                  But you want a "level playing field" with foreign labor, created by our government.  How do you suggest we do that without raising product prices to what American labor requires, prices we won't (can't) pay?

                  1. Live to Learn profile image60
                    Live to Learnposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                    I think you are assuming I'm talking about miffed at not having a Sunday brunch with these guys. I am talking about the welfare of their customers and the well being of their employees. Cutting pennies sometimes makes the difference between a safe product and an unsafe one. Which way does the big corporation go? Many times the penny pinching way. Do you think no one noticed the moisture leaking off of the ceiling into the vats making the peanut butter months before the recall?

                    Did the companies which sold the chinese drywall have any obligations to the consumers hurt by that incident? Why did they chose that product over gypsum board from the states?

                    What about decisions to change the manner in which a product is put together, in order to offer it more cheaply and make more money? I'm talking about things like the hamburger patty. If you know that the change from one source to multiple sources, worldwide, will cause that product to be 10,000 times more susceptible to containing e coli which can kill; do you opt for the extra pennies in profit? Since this equates to hundreds millions for the mega corporation, with the possible risk of having to put out tens of millions in a lawsuit, that mega corporation looks at the value of human life in a totally different manner from the smaller company making patties. And, of course the mega corporation  can always claim it wasn't them. It had to be one of many different suppliers who are not even in this country and probably can't be held accountable in the first place. That, I don't like.

                    I'm talking about companies moving toward part time help and away from full time. How does that affect the worker?

                    Businesses deserve a profit. Of course they do. But they are in a position of trust. We are trusting them to provide a safe product in a decent manner.

                    Capitalism is good. I agree that many large companies give value for value. Effort and ability should be rewarded but we have always fought between the love of the dollar and the good of the citizens in our capitalistic system. One belief rises to prominence for a while and then the other.  We've never found a happy median where both sides are protected fairly and equally. What we have at the moment is a lopsided system in favor of protections for the corporation. A corporation is not an individual. No matter how many laws they have been able to have put onto the books. Individuals are more important than the desires of the corporation. The citizens should not have had to bail corporations out of their financial woes brought about by greedy and unscrupulous decisions. The citizens, who own stock in large corporations should not get a penny here and there in order to ensure that a CEO who runs a company close to the ground gets multi million dollars in compensation for doing just that. And individuals who are in charge of companies caught in wrong doing should be held accountable. Not accountable by attending a congressional hearing. They should be treated just as you, or I, if we stepped out into the marketplace and caused a death because we wanted to make a dollar.

                    That, I don't know. I will say that I do know several American companies that do compete quite well with products from foreign countries. How? I don't know. But, we as citizens are also partly responsible for the horrible working conditions in some countries; because our desire to consume helps create the environment for abuses to occur.  If we all of a sudden spent more on one thing, meaning we couldn't spend as much on another. Would that be all bad? Think about how much we have moved to a must have attitude. Consume, consume, consume.....to the thousandth degree. If our disposable income was lessened by a small increase in prices and we could only consume to the nine hundredth degree would that be an acceptable hand off in order to bring more jobs back to America or for us to demand better working conditions for those abroad?

  8. profile image0
    ahorsebackposted 7 years ago

    We conservatives are very selfish , we want to keep our own money !   Liberals want to share  all  monies yours , mine , corporate America's , big business , small business ,the governments , other governments , even  God's .......How is it exactly that they justify that over all else ?  And what ever happened to personal accountability ?

    1. wilderness profile image94
      wildernessposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      They want it is enough justification.  But their cause is just.  The ends justify the means.  "Though shall not steal" only applies to conservatives. 

      Children are not held accountable, and all citizens are children.  Only government has adults in it, and then only when they are liberals. 

      All very simple, actually.

  9. profile image0
    ahorsebackposted 7 years ago

    The reason that the middle class  has  disappeared is because of taxation , because  of the entitlement , free student loans , because of Bernie Sanders general welfare mentality for everyone , One close look at Vermont  where he is from shows that .     Corporate America gets a better tax deal than the working individual !.....As well they should ,-------and  THAT's who pays the middle class ! Want to restore the middle class ,   Fire The Bern!

    1. gmwilliams profile image85
      gmwilliamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this


    2. rhamson profile image71
      rhamsonposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      The taxation historically is shown to have no effect on how business does its' business to produce profits. When you mix the movement towards globalization in it the taxation issue becomes a firestorm sidebar. Why is this? Because they want to use reducing taxes as a carrot to dangle in front of our faces as a way to inspire economic growth. They do this knowing and having proved they only pocket the money and tell us more ways to save them money. I don't know if you can call this swallowing the Koolade but it comes close.

    3. Neil Sperling profile image60
      Neil Sperlingposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      If folks looked at the current monetary system they would realize no matter who wins the election nothing will change. There are flaws in communism, socialism as well as capitalism ---- the monetary system is the only common thread - it is the problem. We need Thrivalism. I wrote about it.

  10. Kathryn L Hill profile image78
    Kathryn L Hillposted 7 years ago

    Higher the taxes= less ability to be independent. Aren't we getting a taste of this malady more and more every single day????????


This website uses cookies

As a user in the EEA, your approval is needed on a few things. To provide a better website experience, hubpages.com uses cookies (and other similar technologies) and may collect, process, and share personal data. Please choose which areas of our service you consent to our doing so.

For more information on managing or withdrawing consents and how we handle data, visit our Privacy Policy at: https://corp.maven.io/privacy-policy

Show Details
HubPages Device IDThis is used to identify particular browsers or devices when the access the service, and is used for security reasons.
LoginThis is necessary to sign in to the HubPages Service.
Google RecaptchaThis is used to prevent bots and spam. (Privacy Policy)
AkismetThis is used to detect comment spam. (Privacy Policy)
HubPages Google AnalyticsThis is used to provide data on traffic to our website, all personally identifyable data is anonymized. (Privacy Policy)
HubPages Traffic PixelThis is used to collect data on traffic to articles and other pages on our site. Unless you are signed in to a HubPages account, all personally identifiable information is anonymized.
Amazon Web ServicesThis is a cloud services platform that we used to host our service. (Privacy Policy)
CloudflareThis is a cloud CDN service that we use to efficiently deliver files required for our service to operate such as javascript, cascading style sheets, images, and videos. (Privacy Policy)
Google Hosted LibrariesJavascript software libraries such as jQuery are loaded at endpoints on the googleapis.com or gstatic.com domains, for performance and efficiency reasons. (Privacy Policy)
Google Custom SearchThis is feature allows you to search the site. (Privacy Policy)
Google MapsSome articles have Google Maps embedded in them. (Privacy Policy)
Google ChartsThis is used to display charts and graphs on articles and the author center. (Privacy Policy)
Google AdSense Host APIThis service allows you to sign up for or associate a Google AdSense account with HubPages, so that you can earn money from ads on your articles. No data is shared unless you engage with this feature. (Privacy Policy)
Google YouTubeSome articles have YouTube videos embedded in them. (Privacy Policy)
VimeoSome articles have Vimeo videos embedded in them. (Privacy Policy)
PaypalThis is used for a registered author who enrolls in the HubPages Earnings program and requests to be paid via PayPal. No data is shared with Paypal unless you engage with this feature. (Privacy Policy)
Facebook LoginYou can use this to streamline signing up for, or signing in to your Hubpages account. No data is shared with Facebook unless you engage with this feature. (Privacy Policy)
MavenThis supports the Maven widget and search functionality. (Privacy Policy)
Google AdSenseThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Google DoubleClickGoogle provides ad serving technology and runs an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Index ExchangeThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
SovrnThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Facebook AdsThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Amazon Unified Ad MarketplaceThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
AppNexusThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
OpenxThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Rubicon ProjectThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
TripleLiftThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Say MediaWe partner with Say Media to deliver ad campaigns on our sites. (Privacy Policy)
Remarketing PixelsWe may use remarketing pixels from advertising networks such as Google AdWords, Bing Ads, and Facebook in order to advertise the HubPages Service to people that have visited our sites.
Conversion Tracking PixelsWe may use conversion tracking pixels from advertising networks such as Google AdWords, Bing Ads, and Facebook in order to identify when an advertisement has successfully resulted in the desired action, such as signing up for the HubPages Service or publishing an article on the HubPages Service.
Author Google AnalyticsThis is used to provide traffic data and reports to the authors of articles on the HubPages Service. (Privacy Policy)
ComscoreComScore is a media measurement and analytics company providing marketing data and analytics to enterprises, media and advertising agencies, and publishers. Non-consent will result in ComScore only processing obfuscated personal data. (Privacy Policy)
Amazon Tracking PixelSome articles display amazon products as part of the Amazon Affiliate program, this pixel provides traffic statistics for those products (Privacy Policy)
ClickscoThis is a data management platform studying reader behavior (Privacy Policy)