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Brexit seems to be the UKs answer to the US question: How do we get our mojo back?
Donald Trump is our Brexit. A promise to take us back to simpler times, when we could rule our destiny and blah, blah blah. He is currently stumbling around Scotland, congratulating them on voting to take their country back. Sigh... He could well win. Look at the folks just realizing they have "voted" to leave the EU. Those who choose to ignore such referendums do so at the peril of not knowing what just hit them.
I found this article interesting:
"It would almost be impressive if British Prime Minister David Cameron had set out to tear apart the UK more effectively than any of his hundreds of predecessors, but the staggering fact is that he seems to have destabilized the country entirely accidentally, sleepwalking off a cliff like a particularly posh Mr. Magoo."
http://www.theverge.com/2016/6/24/12022 … y-leave-eu
Those of you on the other side of the Atlantic - What is your take on this? Are you concerned about the viability of the EU? Is Britain just being British? Is the experiment over?
I'm a US citizen. I see the indifference in the UK towards a possible future without Scotland and N. Ireland as a bigger problem. One person wrote, "We should just start over." The expansionist era is over. There is no starting over.
Just wanted to note that Scotland voted to stay and so Trump going there to congratulate them is a faux pas and kind of hilarious.
Yes, it's embarrassing. I have the feeling he really does not want the job of president and is going out of his way to make himself look ridiculous, and therefore have the nomination "stolen" from him at the convention. He really can't be as coarse and stupid as he increasingly appears.
I think our tendency to act as if every decision made is going to have earth shattering consequences is strange.
The Brits left the EU. The sun came up the next day. Go figure.
Apparently the most popular search on Google UK after Brexit was the question 'what is the EU?'.
This is what happens when you give fools a referendum. And allow politicians like Boris Johnson to get away with endless deceit.
You are assuming that all those who searched were people who voted 'Out'. I wouldn't be so quick to judge, Will. The Outers tend to be those who have a relevant and personal viewpoint, i.e. they have been affected by the issues under discussion. The people who simply parrot what they have been fed by the education system and the media seem to me to be on the Remain side.
If by 'deceit' you are talking about the message on the Leave campaign's bus, I suggest you go read it again. No-one 'promised' to give the NHS £350m per week. Not one. No-one said immigration would be reduced to zero. No-one said the economy wouldn't take a temporary nose-dive post-Brexit. Whereas the fearmongering on the Remain side reached epic proportions.
The population and its 'leaders' needs to take a step back, breathe and then work out the best way to go. It's a shame that our government and Prime Minister didn't take a neutral view from the start. It was the Government's responsibility to have a workable post-Brexit plan in place and ready to go.
Just because you disagree with us, doesn't make us wrong.
I think Britishers themselves are much confused as to why they voted out or voted to remain. Those who voted out might be sorry for doing so and whoever voted remain might also be equally regretting his action. So, it was like some emotional voting in a heat than a rational one.
I think there is a lot of uninformed comment across the media, internet, world about the vote and why people voted Leave.
I voted Leave.
I am not a racist idiot voting for my self-destruction. I am not a Little England fascist who hates brown people. I do not believe in a sepia-tinted version of a 1940s England. I do not believe in waving the Union Jack at pointless displays of patriotism.
And I am kind of sick of people suggesting that.
The orchestrated stream of propaganda from the UK government, European leaders, Obama, the IMF, the banks, big business, media and many others over the weeks leading up to the referendum convinced me to vote the other way. They do not represent me. They do not care about me. They gave me the Iraq War, the banking crisis, Guantanamo and many other bad things. They abuse their positions of power.
They believed that the people would believe their fear mongering doom and gloom scenarios about the end of the world. What they didn't understand is that many people have nothing to lose.
So what if the banks fail again?
So what if the pound drops?
So what if stocks lose 10%?
The British Parliament was overwhelmingly in favour of Remain. They are supposed to represent the views of the people and they did not have a clue.
The truth is they do not represent any voters. They represent themselves, their futures, their friends in the military, city, finance, pharmaceutical - and so on. No one cares about the workers, ex-workers, poor, disenfranchised or simply hacked off people.
Because usually a vote counts for nothing. The same old government gets re-elected, the same old non representatives.
This time - one man one vote - meant something. And 52% said "fuck you".
Amen to that.
One of the things most people - even in Europe - do not know about the UK's role in the EU is that the UK didn't sign most of our agreements and never played the so-called european union game. Never. They don't even stepped into the stupid euro zone - and they were right.
In reality, they don't have a lot to loose and lots to gain from the Brexit. Especially the millions they give but never get back.
I'm also convinced that if the eurocrats would agree to revert the so-called union back to its older form (the Common Market), the Brits wouldn't leave - and we, Western Europeans, wouldn't want to leave either.
@Will Apse: Democracy means power to the people, not the fools.
Honestly I think England should have remained but I don't live there. Mine is just an opinion.
However citizens voted and their decision should be respected. Good or bad the people who may be most affected took a stand and made a choice!
WOW Mark - I had not realized how truly global the world economy had become. You could be talking about the USA and would be on target on every point.
"Approximately 62% of Americans have no emergency savings for things such as a $1,000 emergency room visit or a $500 car repair, according to a new survey of 1,000 adults by personal finance website Bankrate.com. Faced with an emergency, they say they would raise the money by reducing spending elsewhere (26%), borrowing from family and/or friends (16%) or using credit cards (12%).
The findings are strikingly similar to a U.S. Federal Reserve survey of more than 4,000 adults released last year. “Savings are depleted for many households after the recession,” it found. Among those who had savings prior to 2008, 57% said they’d used up some or all of their savings in the Great Recession and its aftermath. What’s more, only 39% of respondents reported having a “rainy day” fund adequate to cover three months of expenses and only 48% of respondents said that they would completely cover a hypothetical emergency expense costing $400 without selling something or borrowing money."
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/most-a … 2015-01-07
Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose... Our politicians are so out of touch with what our real concerns are.
I think you are bang on with your analysis of the situation. Here in America for decades we have seen the illegal immigration alone deteriorate our ability to raise wages to a standard we can live on and it being withheld by a bought Congress of millionaires. They have no idea what it is like to live at these levels while carrying on their elitist standard of living. I cannot afford to buy prescriptions unless under a program. To buy insulin on the program I have to have an income 300% below the Federal Poverty Level. If we allow immigration to lower our standards of income to those equal to foreign countries also struggling, what will be left when we reach the total saturation level? Calling it racism or xenophobia is convenient for those who are ill affected by their policies of greed based labor immigration.
It's not illegal immigration that is lowering our incomes and standard of living. When I hired illegals (presumably) to help move my furnishings 14 years ago, I paid them each $15.00 per hour. Much cheaper than professional movers, but more than twice minimum wage back in the day.
You can't earn more money for two reasons.
1) The West currently is forced to compete with 3rd world countries where the cost of living and standard of living are a fraction of what they are in Western countries. The CEOs take a short view of the company's earnings and stock price, since a substantial amount of their earnings comes from stock options that they can cash-in in the relative short term. Therefore, they outsource software developers, customer service, technical support, manufacturing - and with them goes the middle management jobs as well - to maximize short term profits. Short term profits trigger their bonuses and the stock price goes up (so that they can cash-in their stock options for a good profit).
If they had to wait 15 years to take advantage of their stock options they might want to see a better long term prospect for success. Afterall, who will they sell their products to when the largest consumer market on the planet cannot afford to buy their products, since they have no jobs left to support purchasing goods. The massive short term compensation (400 x lowest paid employee's compensation) is an invitation to squeeze every bit of short term profit possible without regard for future of the company, the employees or society. It is also incentive to steal or cook the books.
Illegals coming here earn much more than their counterparts back home, which is why we moved our manufacturing to Mexico and buy from China.
2) Technology is making people redundant. Lawyers no longer need a stable of legal secretaries; they type it themselves; stacks of bookkeepers are replaced by one computer program etc... Soon we will not need truck drivers even; trucks will be equipped with navigations systems to transport our goods.
Steven Hawking views this as one of the biggest challenges to our future. How do we get the rich, hoarding massive fortunes, to share it with the people who have no way to earn an income since technology has made the majority of jobs nonexistent. The old view of, "I deserve all this money because I am smarter and better" may need to change when the pitchforks start coming for them.
You are absolutely correct. But paying illegals twice the minimum wage is a drop in the bucket compared to hiring them and not paying for their health care, retirement or any of the extras that current employers omit as a cost.
But you are describing the beginning of the problem. What happens in the end game is what you explain in the products no matter how cheap they are offered will not sell to a public that does not make enough or any income. I am explaining the end of the process. The short term gains has always been an American business model. Stick it hard while you can and move on is the mantra. Anyway you want to look at it we are the problem as we don't pay enough attention to the rampant congressional skulduggery that takes place in the void of our attention to its workings.
The mass media response to Brexit convinces me those who voted with Mark Ewbie were right. For what is mass media but the tool of the most wretchedly wealthy persons on Earth?
You got it Wes. This was a chance and my goodness we took it! All across Europe the ordinary people want their own vote. Our government made the mistake of giving us one.
...and Obama was putting his thoughts into what you all should do. I like to think that tipped it at least the two percent over. Because what is Obama but the most two faced nancy on the planet? Rhetorical question.
Obama was wrong for sticking his nose in the UK business.
We have a senator taking actions to get the US out of the United Nations now. Which is a good thing to get out of, its a waste of tax money and all they do is attack our constitutionally guaranteed liberties, Its nothing but the rich “dictators club".
Congratulations to everyone across the pond.
I am 100% with Mark here. People who throw insults at Brexiters like oldies (I saw one tweet yesterday calling us 'coffin-dodgers'), thickies, racists, xenophobes and liars, are nothing more than sore losers.
A referendum is a democratic process. Yes means yes, and no means no. It's a shame that people are unable to accept that.
I hear many of the younger generation casting blame and generally moaning that their elders have thrown away their life chances. Nothing could be further from the truth. We have known life outside of the EU. We can see the effect the EU has on the country - our heavy industry has gone, our once strong fishing industry has disappeared, our agriculture industry is in confusion and mired in ever-increasing amounts of paperwork, and small businesses are being strangled by bureaucracy.
The whiners who keep telling us about all this 'EU money' we are going to lose don't seem to understand that it is our money, skimmed off and recycled by the EU. The UK is the second highest net contributor to the EU. And to be completely honest I live in a part of the UK (Wales) that is a net beneficiary, therefore it is the English who are suffering the most as they are the ones carrying the whole UK. It's wrong.
On top of all that, our Parliament is determined to throw away our sovereignty like it means nothing, just to be governed by a bunch of unelected, self-appointed, faceless entities.
Shouldn't this thread be in the Topical forums btw?
Good point. I am sure you will never see countries like Poland, Spain, or Portugal begging to leave the EU. After all they are the ones getting a lot more money than they are putting in.
It is now! LOL I have never been over to the darkside of the topical forums. I did not even know they existed til now.
Brexiteers don't get realpolitik. The UK just left the only club that could give it a genuine voice in the world. You are condemned to irrelevance and probably a great deal of unnecessary poverty.
And all that based on voters individual feelings of powerless and inchoate resentment.
Mark got it right, lol, Brexiteers said F-off to the whole world and all those evil global forces.
Problem is globalization will not stop and the only outcome is that the UK has no say in how it will all go.
Anyway, boules for me now, French Germans, Yanks, and people we dare not ask of...
See ya when I'm sober.
I'm an U.S. outsider looking in. But it seems to me getting out from under control of the EU Central bank is a good thing for Britain, since they have always had their own currency and do not use the euro. Time will tell to see how this unfolds. I know there are several countries in the EU that don't use the euro, but are still controlled by the central bank.
What Trump wants to do is not the same as Brexit because we have the Federal Reserve board as our central bank. He pledges to impose 45 percent tariffs on all imports from China and 35 percent on many goods from Mexico. Many economist say that would spark financial market turmoil and possibly even a recession.
Given that we have no manufacturing left in this country, those import tariffs would mean an automatic 35-45% inflation rate. Since we have no cost of living increases for nearly a decade, people could only stop buying, and a recession would naturally follow.
Either stop buying or start building manufacturing plants and hiring people to staff them. Or course that will take time...time during which we would suffer considerably for our folly in shipping off all our production capabilities.
Wilderness: Do you think the American worker is going to work for the same wages as overseas workers? They will demand higher wages and the cost of goods will go up accordingly, thus affecting the bottom line of our American companies.
It won't affect the bottom line of American companies as much as it will set off a big round of inflation. "...time during which we would suffer considerably for our folly in shipping off all our production capabilities."
I see either paying that price for our folly or simply continuing the process until we have nothing to give other countries, whereupon we descend into a recession that will make any in the past look like great times. The greed of the American consumer has a price connected with it, one that will come due one day and the earlier the less it will be.
I don't see this as the greed of the American consumer. Given a choice, they select the lower priced item, when a difference in value is not demonstrated to them. It is the MItt Romney's of the world, busting up companies and sending their manufacturing overseas that is the problem. Finally, when nothing is made in America, we must choose between China, Korea and VietNam.
In pet treats, I do see a return to Made in America. Owners love their pets and don't want to poison them with crap from Asia. I would love to see this continue. On my pet supplies site, I have a Made in America category (mostly treats and chew toys) that does fairly well.
I would like to see more "made in America" purchases too. But it won't happen as long as price is more important than giving jobs to Americans. I see it as greed: the absolute most possible for the least cost possible - if consumers looked for that "made in America" tag before making a decision manufacturers would have factories in the US. But the price tag takes priority so the factories are over seas. Blaming the seller for doing the only thing they can to find something the consumer will pay the price for isn't reasonable.
MADE IN AMERICA ;
It used to mean something , it used to be a plan of buying for many or most Americans . Back in the seventies when Reagan ran for president , this saying was either revived or it was re-invented . But more than that it was a saying that seemed to instill in those who felt a patriotism to actually be more conscious of where something was made , Was it made in America , were parts or the majority of parts made in America ?
Yet even then I remember these comments , " its cheaper if its made over there "......."Why should I pay more for something made here ?"............"What difference does one purchase make? ".........Yet , although I always felt the need to support American jobs , I quickly noticed the flood of foreign cars , trucks , boy toys , clothing , And later foreign travel , college attendance , off shore financial accounts , factories moving for cheaper labor , auto companies going to Canada , Mexico , the beef industry to Argentina , on and on and on ...........
Bottom line , if every American job lost then , now and in between was simply for those who didn't care about" Made in America " ,I would be very pleased ! But liberal globalist economic thought and theory has gutted the American middle class NOT the banking system , Not the rich Americans ! The American public ,in all classes , are just as responsible for what has transgressed in our economic meltdown , AS ANYBODY IS ! The consumerist American public is just as responsible for this as Wall Street , as corporate America is or as our" political leadership" is !
Buy American !
I try, but Made in the USA items are few and far between. Shopping for appliances the other day, I did notice that some were "designed and assembled in the USA. So Parts from all over Asia brought here to be assembled. Well that's a start.
ahorseback: There is no one to blame but the corporations that are increasing their bottom line by having their products made off shore by cheaper labor. They answer to their board of directors, not the American people. The people buy whatever is available to them and at the least cost and the highest quality. Stop blaming liberals for everything. They are not the problem. it is not "liberal globalist economic thought and theory" or Obama as you say. It is the big corporations and big moneyed interest that are the problem. Look around you at what you have purchased. We don't have a choice to buy American. Who makes your cell phones, appliances, cars, and clothes. Do you think liberals and Obama decided that? Knowing you, you probably do.
Trying to blame the current administration or liberals for that matter is far from the truth. Yes we buy the cheapest product that will fit the bill. Why is that? Because we have to. Our wages do not rise at the level our cost of living does. The millions and millions who supported made in America have lost their ability to support it. In many cases they have lost their jobs to do so. The corporations through buying votes, pressuring Congress and in many cases writing trade policy have run the made in America off the continent. Who's fault is it really? OUR FAULT! We continue to allow a rigged system to dictate our lives for its own benefit. We refuse to elect officials who look out for us and we refuse to support any change that could make that happen. It is all too convenient to point the finger at others and absolve ourselves of the blame but as usual we are lying to ourselves. We create and support this mess every four years and the corrupt and inept candidates we choose are getting worse and worse every year to the point that we have a known liar and cheat, and a candidate on the other side who gives us little if no information about his solution while promising us the moon. WE ARE THE PROBLEM! Calling each other names and insulting each other does what? Continue the disconnect and it fulfills the corrupt system of divisive and impotent solutions.
Donald Trump detailed his plan in is best seller titled, "Time To Get Tough: Making America #1 Again". He makes it crystal clear, and uses what people call serious political solutions.
If, you listen to the opposition, you can be led to believe otherwise.
ADDED: He is a man with a plan, and has a 5 point strategy.
Right now China is reducing its exports and trying to build its own middle class. They recognize that our economies are on the brink of collapse. The greed from the top down has undermined our economic engine. We will continue to earn less, and their people will continue to earn more. Guess who will be happy about that global leveling of societies.
Meanwhile...in the West... Robber barron CEOs are purchasing land in New Zealand with the plan to escape this country for a special land just for them. A great big island of excess. That is their escape route, unless we can colonize Mars quickly.
"Oh brave new world, that has such people in it."
One last step is needed - the "Swiss Effect". This will seal Britain's success now and for at least the next century. Turn the power of law and regulation over to the people and turn the politicians into what they should be - law managers. For those unaware, Switzerland is the second most prosperous country in Europe, with the least regulation and near-zero bureaucracy. Norway is first and Denmark third. Note that all three are not in the European Union.
More than 3.6 million people have signed a petition to demand England play a second match against Iceland, because they didn’t win the first one.
They rushed to join the online campaign to force the Government to re-run the game, and to keep staging it until England finally won.
http://www.suffolkgazette.com/sport/mil … -petition/
Worse than Iceland, lol....
BRITISH LOSE RIGHT TO CLAIM THAT AMERICANS ARE DUMBER
http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz … are-dumber
I love Andy Borowitz! And on to our November, when Brits may once again reign supreme...
TRUMP’S BID TO BECOME BORN-AGAIN FAILS AS JESUS TURNS DOWN FRIEND REQUEST
"Privately, campaign staffers fretted that the candidate would pen a disparaging tweet about Jesus, which might alienate evangelical voters in key battleground states."
http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz … nd-request
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