Is Trump a liar or a B.S-er?

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peoplepower73posted 8 years ago
I just watched Fareed Zakaria on CNN Global Public Square. He had a piece about whether Trump is a Liar or B.S.-er.

Harry Frankfurt, an eminent moral philosopher and former professor at Princeton, wrote a brilliant essay in 1986 called “On Bullshit.” (Frankfurt himself wrote about Trump in this vein, as have Jeet Heer and Eldar Sarajlic.) In the essay, Frankfurt distinguishes crucially between lies and B.S.:

“Telling a lie is an act with a sharp focus. It is designed to insert a particular falsehood at a specific point. . . . In order to invent a lie at all, [the teller of a lie] must think he knows what is true.”

But someone engaging in B.S., Frankfurt says, “is neither on the side of the true nor on the side of the false. His eye is not on the facts at all . . . except insofar as they may be pertinent to his interest in getting away with what he says.”

Frankfurt writes that the B.S.-er’s “focus is panoramic rather than particular” and that he has “more spacious opportunities for improvisation, color, and imaginative play. This is less a matter of craft than of art. Hence the familiar notion of the ‘bullshit artist.’ ”

Does this sound like Trump to you? It certainly does to me and explains many things. Here is the link to the article and all the things has B.S -ed about.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions … story.html
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  wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  I'd have to put Trump in the BS crowd. Clinton, on the other hand, is both a consummate liar and BS'er. She's top notch at both.
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  Kathleen Cochranposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Please cite examples. Thank you.
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  rhamsonposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Trump is a salesman plain and true. He embodies all of which you speak so as to sell his agenda. If, and I say tentatively, if elected he will carry on the same antics and misdirection for his own edification as the rest. He has already shown his hand on economics and if pressed will employ the same war-hawk tendencies as Hillary.
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peoplepower73posted 8 years ago
Wilderness: Of course she is you wouldn't have it any other way.

The B.S. artist, however, has lost all connection with reality. He pays no attention to the truth. “By virtue of this,” Frankfurt writes, “bullshit is a greater enemy of truth than lies are.”
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  wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  And you will ignore it regardless of how onerous her lies are.
  
  I disagree with both you and Frankfurt. No one has lost connection with reality - they just don't care. And their lies are easy to detect, like "I'm gonna build a wall and make Mexico pay for it!".
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peoplepower73posted 8 years ago
Wildernes: Did you read the article in the link? That's not a lie, it's B.S. He has lost connection with reality. The President of Mexico has already said it is B.S. and he is not going to pay for it. How many times has Trump made statements that he has had to back track on? They were not lies, because in order to lie, one has to know the truth. When you don't know the truth and still make statement that have no connection to reality, then it is pure unadulterated B.S.
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  wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Aren't you saying exactly what I did: that Trump is all BS?
  
  But the wall - there's just enough truth in it, if viewed at just the right angle, to carry a grain of truth. If we end foreign aid to Mexico and use the money to build a wall...well, it will be built in a few years and Mexico will have "paid" for it. Heck, we already see some calls for an end to that aid until the border problem is solved.
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PrettyPantherposted 8 years ago
It is clear that Trump is not normal. Yes, he is a BS'er in the extreme.
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  wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  LOL No, Trump is not a normal person. A multi-billionaire with business operations world wide. A candidate for the highest office in the world. Hated by millions and loved by millions more. No, he's not what one would call "normal".
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  peoplepower73posted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Wilderness: Not for the reasons you stated. This is a story about his ghost writer for his book Art of the Deal. http://abcnews.go.com/US/tony-schwartz- … d=40662196
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  PrettyPantherposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  And he is clearly a defective human being.
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  wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Well, of course he is! He doesn't follow along with liberal policies and thus has no empathy or care for anyone else!
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  PrettyPantherposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Really? That's all you see?
  
  Okay.
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  wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  While I understand you wish to say (and do) that Trump is mentally ill, "defective" in some imagined basic manner, there isn't a shred of proof to support such an allegation and it is beneath you to propose it.
  
  That he has different ideas than you, that he speaks and acts different than you, that he doesn't fit into your mold of right and wrong doesn't make him "defective".
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  PrettyPantherposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Actually, there is more than a shred, but I understand your position.
  
  Edited to add: if you knew me at all, you would realize your last paragraph, which I'm sure is meant to insult, is ludicrously wrong.
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  wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  No, it wasn't meant to be insulting. Just pointing out that everyone is different, holds different beliefs and thinks differently but that doesn't make them defective.
  
  But don't know why it is wrong - are you saying that you think like Trump and hold his values? I don't believe it.
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  PrettyPantherposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  I am not basing my opinion of his defectiveness on his ideas,, beliefs, how he looks, or because he doesn't fit a particular mold. His behavior, past and present, provides plenty of evidence.
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  wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  *shrug* And Muslims, particularly radical ones, are defective, too. And businessmen that accumulate massive fortunes. And the Nigerian scam artists. And Jim Jones and his followers.
  
  None of them have behavior that agrees with what you think of as right and so are defective. There is enormous diversity in how people behave, but that doesn't make them defective.
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  PrettyPantherposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Are any of them running for president?
  
  Yes, certain types of "diversity" as you so quaintly call it, are indicators of a level of "defective" that should be red flags for a person who wants to be president.
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  wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  So "defective" carries a different meaning for a Presidential candidate. You but reinforce that anyone not of your political persuasion is automatically defective. You're beginning to sound like Alternative Prime, desperately grasping at straws and making silly claims without any basis.
  
  You want "defective"? How about a candidate that is amoral to the point that she doesn't care who gets hurt? That steals. That puts herself above the law.
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  PrettyPantherposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  No, "defective" does not have a different meaning for a presidential candidate, but a presidential candidate should meet a higher standard than any of the examples you gave, shouldn't he?
  
  "You but reinforce that anyone not of your political persuasion is automatically defective." Not true, and you know it. I have never said Mitt Romney is defective, or John McCain, or Ronald Reagan, or any other Republican presidential candidate. You're intentionally mischaracterizing my position to make it easier to argue against. This is a favorite tactic of yours, wilderness. I see it all the time.
  
  You're entitled to think of Hillary Clinton as defective if you want, and I won't accuse you of doing it purely out of partisan motives, like you are doing with me. But, the subject here is Donald, and I believe he has shown himself to be defective enough that he is unfit to be president. As a voter, I am entitled--no, I am obligated--to assess his fitness for the job of president, because it is a serious job, and we should not take our votes lightly. But, hey, if you think Donald can handle the constant criticism, can sit in a room with world leaders and maintain a measured diplomatic stance, can sit still and listen to briefings and recommendations from highly skilled military, economic, and diplomatic advisors, then by all means, vote for him.
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  Alternative Primeposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Actually, there are MANY "Shreds" of Evidence to PROVE "Delusional Donald" suffers from Several Different STRAINs and or "Derivatives" of "Mental Illness" ~ NOT Only SHREDs but Gigantic WHOLE SWATHs of Concrete Evidence and any Reputable Psychiatrist will say the same ~
  
  Just One Example of "Delusional Donald" Exhibiting an Anger Filled "Temper TANTRUM" as a Direct RESULT of his Abnormal FlareUps & Paranoia ~
  
  Yup, this is the "Thin SKINNED" Mentally DISTURBED Babbling individual I want as Leader of the FREE World ~ ~ Fortunately, AMERICANs are starting to WATCH & that's Definately NOT Good News for Donald ~ His "HATE Fest Republican Convention" was a Disaster with MORE Americans NOW Less Likely to Vote for him and that's REFLECTED in the Latest POLLs which indicate Hillary is CRUSHING him with an 8% to 15% LEAD
  
  Mentally Disturbed "Hateful & Bizarre Looking" 70 Year OLD Man MOCKING Our Disabled AMERICANs ~ Trying to "NORMALIZE" this Moron is like trying to "AMERICANIZE" Fox Newz ~ NOT Possible
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQ_XcztaXd0
  
  Addressing the TOPIC ~ "Delusional Donald" is BOTH ~ A Pathological LIAR & Unabashed BSer who According to Reports & Filed COURT Documents, Specializes in SWINDLING OUR Edlery & Uneducated Americans ~ Just check "POLITIFACT" to Discover his Latest Public Annunciated "DELUSIONS" ~ It might be best to just ASSUME Donald is lying every time seperates his LIPs, then INVESTIGATE ~
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  wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Mentally disturbed is continually slandering someone without any proof, not having a temper tantrum.
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  Alternative Primeposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  ALL those Desperate "HILLARY Bashers" could certainly use that Lecture ~
  
  Here's Another EXPERTs Opinion Pertaining to Donald's "State of MIND" while the MOUNTING Number of National Security EXPERTs articulate a Stern "WARNING" Against a Trump Presidency / Dictatorship ~
  
  http://addictinginfo.org/2016/08/02/dr- … -unstable/
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ahorsebackposted 8 years ago
Hillary actually lies about lies about lies , to her cultish followers !
And Trumps sarcasm actually bothers people -?
You guys are seriously deranged .
Did you see her "Press conference " ? Three whole reporters ?
They actually had to hire people to applaud !
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  peoplepower73posted 8 years agoin reply to this
  ahorseback: If it was just sarcasm, it would be tolerable. The man is delusional. He makes up stories and then when called on them, he back tracks and very rarely admits he was wrong. These are just a few right off the top of my head.
  
  Obama''s birth certificate
  Two thousand people cheering the fall of the trade center towers
  Meeting with Putin
  Ted Cruz's dad was involved in JFK assassination
  Pictures of the airplane where the money was transferred to Iran for ransom. (By the way Reagan really did trade arms for hostages and got away clean. He was pardoned by Bush)
  
  And if that is not enough for you, here are 101 more.
  
  http://www.dailywire.com/news/4834/trum … nk-berrien
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  Live to Learnposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  How are Trump's lies more disconcerting to you than Hillary's?
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  peoplepower73posted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Livetolearn: Let's see, I'm guessing you think she lied about her email and Benghazi right? Let's say she did lie. What has been the consequences of those lies? Emails, what evidence do we have that she jeopardize national security as a result of those emails? Many high level officials have used private servers and not jeopardized national security. Benghazi - four Americans were killed. Admittedly, that was a tragedy, but in the total scheme of things four Americans were insignificant compared to the number of people who have been killed as result of Bush invading Iraq.
  
  Trump is just bat sh*t crazy and I don't want his hands on the nuclear codes. There is plenty of evidence that shows he is unfit to lead this country. Every time he opens his mouth, he says something that shows he is spewing B.S. When a person lies, they know what the truth is. When you B.S., you have no knowledge of the truth. That's what Trump does.
  
  Why can't you accept the fact that Hillary has been cleared of the email fiasco and Benghazi? If it was one of your fellow republicans, there wouldn't have been any investigations.
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  Live to Learnposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  I am old enough to know Hillary's antics over much longer a period of time than just when she was Secretary of State. I think you are also. She has lied so many times, about so many things, if you can't admit it then I can only assume you are saying that because you are a Democrat and so is she.
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  peoplepower73posted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Livetolearn: I would appreciate a list of all the things you think she has lied about.
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  Live to Learnposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  OK.
  
  All of the money she made in cattle futures when Bill was governor. She lied about how she came to invest $1000 which turned into $100,000 in just a paltry few months.
  
  She drafted documents for some thing called Castle Grand with the express intent to deceive federal regulators. She lied, claiming the non existence of billing records. This hits close to home because while people such as herself were setting us up for the savings and loan debacle people such as myself were soon to find ourselves homeless because of it.
  
  Full well knowing of her husband's philandering ways she attempted to convince America that it was just a right wing conspiracy.
  
  She lied about the removal of documents after Vince Foster's suicide. I'd be very interested in knowing why the first lady felt it to be imperative to remove documents. What was in those documents?
  
  She lied about not understanding that the things she stole from the White House, upon leaving, were not hers to take. If she didn't know then I would say she isn't bright enough to be considered to be the commander in chief.
  
  Of course she lied about the emails. You can say that she didn't hurt national security but since we have been told there are tens of thousands of emails missing...how can you tell?
  
  She has never come clean on why so many foreign governments have given so much to her and Bill. I'd like to know.
  
  She has lied about several things during this election cycle. Unless we are to believe that her top advisers don't know her stand on issues. I notice McCauliffe backpedaled hard after saying she supported TPP when she told the public she didn't.
  
  Those, just off the top of my head. She did lie about Benghazi. Yes, it doesn't change what happened. But, she lied.
  
  When someone is caught in lies, repeatedly, over the course of time only a fool would think they weren't a liar.
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  peoplepower73posted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Livetolearn: I hate to do this to you, but what are your sources for those accusations?
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  Live to Learnposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Oh gosh. I'll look some up. Later. I'm on a phone right now. These were off the top of my head from over the years. I've watched the Clintons since Whitewater. Because their actions contributed to something which negatively affected me. They are, and have always been, dirty.
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  PrettyPantherposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  I respect you for not falling back on the "I'm not your secretary" copout.
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  Live to Learnposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Honestly, I thought the list was pretty basic and common knowledge. I suppose some of them being such old news it's being rehashed by the far right now. Which of course the far left assumes to be lies.
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  PrettyPantherposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  You listed some things I've never heard of and I thought I'd heard them all.
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  peoplepower73posted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Live to Learn: If you are not going to do the research and it's probably old news from Fox and company. I took the opportunity to do it myself.
  
  You -All of the money she made in cattle futures when Bill was governor. She lied about how she came to invest $1000 which turned into $100,000 in just a paltry few months.
  
  Me - So that fact that she was able to parlay that 1K into 4K in a short period of time makes her a liar? - (There never was any official governmental investigation into, or findings about, or charges brought regarding Hillary Rodham's cattle futures trading[6] (as opposed to Refco practices overall); furthermore, by the time her trading results became known, 15 years had passed and statute of limitations issues may have been pertinent. Melamed's statements were sometimes used as a proxy "official" finding by the Merc, although he was a private consultant by then and was brought in by the White House)
  
  You - She drafted documents for some thing called Castle Grand with the express intent to deceive federal regulators. She lied, claiming the non existence of billing records. This hits close to home because while people such as herself were setting us up for the savings and loan debacle people such as myself were soon to find ourselves homeless because of it.
  
  Me - (The billing records showed that she charged Madison for about 30 hours on work with Seth Ward over 4 months in 1985 and 1986. She and her lawyers said was work with a development as called IDC, thus the confusion. IDC was the company that sold the land to Madison. She said the only Castle Grande she knew was Castle Grande Estates the trailer park, for which she did no work.)
  
  You - Full well knowing of her husband's philandering ways she attempted to convince America that it was just a right wing conspiracy.
  
  Me - (What Bill did was immoral, but by the same token details that Ken Star went to were also immoral. It was right wing conspiracy.)
  
  She lied about the removal of documents after Vince Foster's suicide. I'd be very interested in knowing why the first lady felt it to be imperative to remove documents. What was in those documents?
  
  You - She lied about not understanding that the things she stole from the White House, upon leaving, were not hers to take. If she didn't know then I would say she isn't bright enough to be considered to be the commander in chief.
  
  Me - (Those were gifts given to the Clinton's, the policy was not clear as to when the family leaves what stays behind and what is theirs. They returned all that that were to be treated as museum pieces.)
  
  Of course she lied about the emails. You can say that she didn't hurt national security but since we have been told there are tens of thousands of emails missing...how can you tell?
  
  She has never come clean on why so many foreign governments have given so much to her and Bill. I'd like to know.
  
  You - She has lied about several things during this election cycle. Unless we are to believe that her top advisers don't know her stand on issues. I notice McCauliffe backpedaled hard after saying she supported TPP when she told the public she didn't.
  
  Me -("I did say, when I was secretary of state, three years ago, that I hoped it would be the gold standard," Clinton said. "It was just finally negotiated last week, and in looking at it, it didn't meet my standards. My standards for more new, good jobs for Americans, for raising wages for Americans. And I want to make sure that I can look into the eyes of any middle-class American and say, ‘this will help raise your wages.’ And I concluded I could not.")
  
  You - (Those, just off the top of my head. She did lie about Benghazi. Yes, it doesn't change what happened. But, she lied.
  
  Me - My source was Wikipedia and PolitiFact. I'm sure your source was something you heard on Fox News.
  
  You -When someone is caught in lies, repeatedly, over the course of time only a fool would think they weren't a liar.
  
  Me - And precisely, that is why Trump is a liar and a B.S. -er
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  Live to Learnposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  I didn't say I wasn't going to do the research; I just wasn't near a computer at the time you asked. I should have known that the need to feel that you had somehow vindicated Hillary would drive you to not wait a few hours for a response.
  
  Lie Number 1. Since the statute of limitations had probably passed, you feel that if she had done wrong it doesn't really matter. Good to know. I have higher standards for behavior than that. If what was done was wrong. It was wrong. She lied. She initially said that she had made the investment herself with no outside help. It came out later that she had been helped, heavily by James Blair. You can reference this article from the time. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/po … 940527.htm
  
  Now, no charges were filed and of course she was not found guilty of breaking any law but, you can't say she didn't lie. Looking at the chain of events she was allowed to do things which were against regulations and she was given preferential treatment.
  
  Lie Number 2-Whitewater
  http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/po … 960602.htm
  
  Again, she squeaked out of it with lies, inuendo and an attempt to muddy the waters and cloud the issues. You, of course will use the fact that no charges were filed as vindication that she was innocent. Me, lies inuendo and attempts to muddy the waters and cloud the issues goes on all the time in the political arena and no one is held accountable.
  
  Lie Number 3-Bill's philandering cover up. Bill Clinton dragged the entire nation into the mud with his refusal to simply admit he had done something that isn't illegal in the first place. She lied for no good reason since nothing illegal had been done. To me, that makes the lie very telling. If you lie for the sake of a lie what does that make you? A liar.
  
  Lie Number 4- This one muddies the waters even further. We know, by this point, that Hillary is a pathological liar. So maybe there is nothing to the fact that she chose to lie about the removal of documents. I notice you didn't have a response to this one. Interesting.
  
  Lie Number 5-Didn't know she was stealing anything.
  http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id … amp;page=1
  
  Apparently she didn't know simply because she chose to not know.
  
  Lie number 6-TPP
  http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/27/politics/ … index.html
  
  I don't watch fox news.
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  Kathleen Cochranposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  There is a difference between proof and accusations. If all these are true, why hasn't she been prosecuted? A vast left wing conspiracy?
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  Live to Learnposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Of course it isn't a vast left wing conspiracy. It's simply an example of how those in politics get away with as much as they can bs themselves out of. They are, for the most part, just a bunch of crooked lawyers with one foot on both sides of the fence of legality and moral behavior. The Clintons simply play the game at a higher level. Their legs are spread as wide as possible, with the foot on the legal side positioned as close to the fence as possible so that the other foot can stray farther.
  
  I've got experience with shady lawyers. Politicians are simply in a better position to avoid responsibility and profit from their lack of moral fiber. Legal and moral/right are rarely synonymous. Laws are the minimum standard of conduct we expect from citizens. If you consistently play to a minimum so low that you have to use legal counsel to argue the legality of your actions I can't find a whole lot of reason to search for a position to respect you.
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  peoplepower73posted 8 years agoin reply to this
  livetolearn: So now you are saying both sides lie, but the Clinton's lie at a higher level because metaphorically they have longer legs and can spread them wider. Which really means you believe they never go to jail because they are better connected than all the other liars. Unless, you can prove it without a doubt, aren't you just buying into a conspiracy?
  
  It's funny, the Clinton's are always guilty until proven innocent. Yes Bill "boffed" Monica. I will give you that. But as far as Hillary murdering Vince Foster and never going to jail, is pretty far fetched and is right wing conspiracy.
  
  In all of these investigations, the presumption is Hilary is guilty until proven innocent. And even when she has been cleared of all charges, you and your cohorts cannot accept it and want even more investigations. When in a true court of law, you are innocent until proven guilty. Knowing what you know about law, those investigations, might even be unconstitutional.
  
  Trump wants to find the 30,000 emails that were deleted. Anybody who has any knowledge of technology knows that once they are deleted they are gone. But she is guilty, even if the FBI has cleared her. Yes, what she did was reckless and careless, but other high ranking officials have done the same thing and were not charged. Colin Powell did it and so did Condelizza Rice. If she is charged, the FBI has to charge them as well and they are not going to do that.
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  Live to Learnposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  To some Hillary can do no wrong and no matter how low she goes you support her because you're a Democrat. That's what party people do. They tow the line and make the excuses in hopes that they can convince others to tow that line also and, sadly, maybe attempt to convince themselves they aren't lying.
  
  I never said she murdered anyone. I would think it is obvious you have your doubts because you didn't respond, initially, to that listed lie and now you bring up something no one suggested.
  
  I have no cohorts. I'm simply an average citizen, looking at the evidence as it has piled up over the course of decades. I may not be so average because I'm not willing to buy into the lies and attempts to jump hurdles to pretend that the evidence does not exist.
  
  I've never asked for more investigations of anything. Why waste taxpayer dollars to watch the sham of an attempt to make a politician be held accountable?
  
  Yes, emails deleted are gone; I suppose. But, have they been deleted from every computer they were sent to?
  
  You may be too old to clearly understand technology.
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  colorfuloneposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  From what I have read, Hillary Clinton's emails were easily intercepted in transit from her 'private unsecured email server' by anyone with the technical knowledge, who wanted to read them. She didn't delete the emails until she was told to turn them over. NSA and FBI reportedly have all of her emails according to William Binney a former NSA official.
  
  If China and Russia didn't have all of Hillary's emails, they wouldn't have very good cyber spies.
  
  Hillary was "Extremely Careless"!
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  Live to Learnposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Yes she was careless. Without access to the emails for review, it is difficult to determine any damage done. If she deleted them after being told to turn them over I'd say only a fool would believe she didn't have something to hide. Well, a fool or a democrat. Not sure I see a difference where this issue is involved.
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  peoplepower73posted 8 years agoin reply to this
  livetolearn: Excuse me. I'm old, but I have been in technology my whole life. From the time the first computers were serial machines that processed data one bit at a time in machine language, up until now with highly sophisticated software and micro-miniaturized hardware. I worked on computers that were used in the X15, space shuttle, minuteman missile guidance and control system, to name a few. I retired from Toshiba as an online course developer for their VoIP business telephone systems to certify their dealer techs in the installation and operation of those business systems.
  
  I have no doubt she didn't murder someone. But you would like to think that or you wouldn't have included it in your list. It wasn't that I didn't want to answer it. It just slipped past me. However, it is easy for you to say "she is so well connected, that she was not charged." The problem with that thinking is who are these nefarious people who saves her every time she is accused of something?
  
  I know they are the people with the long legs that stretch from one side of morality to the other side of legality to paraphrase your statement.
  
  So she is sent 30,000 emails to all of the people she corresponded with? If not, then someone or something has to track down 30,000 emails that were distributed to various destinations, via god knows how many routers and servers. And then what are they going to do when they find none of them were classified? According to the FBI, the classifications came after the fact as a result of the investigations, except for three that were not properly marked according to policy and because they were not marked according to policy, they slipped through.
  
  http://www.factcheck.org/2016/07/revisi … formation/
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  Live to Learnposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  <heavy sigh> The classifications came after the fact, you say? How do you classify emails that were deleted prior to review?
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  peoplepower73posted 8 years agoin reply to this
  livetolearn: You can't classify emails that were deleted after the fact. The emails that were re-classified were three of the printed emails that were part of the investigation. They were not marked according to policy and were then marked properly.
  
  http://www.factcheck.org/2016/07/revisi … formation/
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  Live to Learnposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Not sure if you are being purposefully obtuse or not. If we don't have access to the emails.....think, think......we don't know what was in them.
  
  She deleted them after they were requested. Let me ask you this. If I, an ordinary citizen, were under investigation and you were the person investigating me and you requested information. I said I had destroyed it. You subsequently found out it was destroyed after you had requested it...would that be ok with you? And I assured you that information wasn't pertinent...would you just take my word for it?
  
  I suppose it isn't the same. Hillary being some type of demi god to the poor schmuck average democrat, incapable of any wrong but she is just another citizen to me.
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  colorfuloneposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  From the group of 30,000 e-mails returned to the State Department, 110 e-mails in 52 e-mail chains have been determined by the owning agency to contain classified information at the time they were sent or received. Eight of those chains contained information that was Top Secret at the time they were sent; 36 chains contained Secret information at the time; and eight contained Confidential information, which is the lowest level of classification. Separate from those, about 2,000 additional e-mails were “up-classified” to make them Confidential; the information in those had not been classified at the time the e-mails were sent.
  
  * https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press … ail-system
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  ahorsebackposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  OOh stop it ! Hillary has a forty five year history of incomparable incompetence ! Trump's campaigning sarcasm about the stupidity of political insiders cannot begin to hold a candle to Hillary's out and out lies about lies about lies about lies !
  
  Do you want a continuance of moron leftist politics or a fresh start ? While your own hero Bernie was running , Hilary became a socialist dynasty , now that he's gone she's backtracking to her pretend centrist politics, here all- pleasing -speech for all comers !
  
  The History of Now ? Or the unknown of Trump , It's that simple ! But just don't lie Peoplepower .
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  peoplepower73posted 8 years agoin reply to this
  ahorseback: Nice try. That photo is fake. It was photo shopped. This is what happens when you don't do the research and just accept things that fit your agenda. This went viral and it is not even true. Welcome to the digital age of all ones and zeros!
  
  http://www.snopes.com/politics/clintons … nladen.asp
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  ahorsebackposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  No kidding PP. ! No kidding ,........I knew that , But the image is entirely evident of the duplicity , the duality , the doublespeak that Hillary uses constantly against the apparent naïve level of voter maturity of the left !
  
  Prove that one wrong and watch as a landslide builds between now and Nov. for Trump ! I have always had an uncanny sense of spotting a liar - Clintons have lying down to an entirely new dialect and language- good luck getting over your naiveté
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  peoplepower73posted 8 years agoin reply to this
  ahorseback: I think you are the one using double speak. Why would you post something that wasn't true knowing full well that there are people who read these forums who will believe that B.S.?
  
  Isn't that lying by posting something that you know is not true and not disclosing that as a fact with a disclaimer? You call me naive and it's evident that you are lying. As far as having an uncanny sense about spotting liars, maybe you should look in a mirror.
  
  As far as Trump and his landslide, the landslide has already started, only not the way you think. Many high ranking republicans have already jumped ship and have already come over to the Hillary side.
  
  "Fifty of the nation’s most senior Republican national security officials, many of them former top aides or cabinet members for President George W. Bush, have signed a letter declaring that Donald J. Trump “lacks the character, values and experience” to be president and “would put at risk our country’s national security and well-being.”
  
  Mr. Trump, the officials warn, “would be the most reckless president in American history.”
  
  The letter says Mr. Trump would weaken the United States’ moral authority and questions his knowledge of and belief in the Constitution. It says he has “demonstrated repeatedly that he has little understanding” of the nation’s “vital national interests, its complex diplomatic challenges, its indispensable alliances and the democratic values” on which American policy should be based. And it laments that “Mr. Trump has shown no interest in educating himself.”
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  colorfuloneposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  
  We do have somethings to thank Hillary's campaign for when she was running against Obama, like him wearing a white turban and dressed up in Muslim attire. Many more photos have been unearthed since she spilled the beans.
  
  Trump is saying that Obama is the founder of ISIS and Hillary is the co-founder of ISIS. Personally, I do not believe Trump would say that unless he was 100% sure.
  
  ADDED: I hear socialist Bernie Sanders bought a $600,000. home recently.
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  peoplepower73posted 8 years agoin reply to this
  colorfulone:
  The picture showing Obama in a turban during a visit to Kenya in 2006 first appeared on the Drudge Report website. The site said it was circulated by Clinton's staffers and quoted one saying: "Wouldn't we be seeing this on the cover of every magazine if it were [Clinton]?"
  
  The picture was taken when Obama went on a visit to Africa as a senator. Obama, whose father was Kenyan, visited Wajir in Kenya's north-east, close to the Somali and Ethiopian borders, and was dressed by locals as a Somali elder
  
  Here I will save you time. Here are seven more photo shopped pictures of Obama and Michelle. Don't you people have any shame? I can understand why you support Trump. You and others like you. have the same mentality he does. Or are you just too lazy to do the research and analysis?
  
  Please don't post photo shopped photos on this forum without first checking out the source. Don't accept this stuff on blind faith, just because it fits your agenda. Do the research and analysis.
  
  http://www.snopes.com/info/lists/obamaphotos.asp
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Live to Learnposted 8 years ago
Trump aspires to be a politician. As such, he has to be a bs'er. They all are. Some more so than others.
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  Alternative Primeposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Donald is not aspiring to be a Politician, he is a POLITICIAN and he's "Bought & PAID" for by Special Interest MONEY ~ The ONLY Difference is that he LIED Constantly to his FANz saying he would NEVER Accept DONATIONs for his "Pseudo-Campaign" ~
  
  Remember his ENTIRE "Reason for BEING"?? "I'm not TAKING SPECIAL Interest Money"? That was his CORNERSTONE & His FANz were "Bamboozled" by his Gargantuan LIEs once again ~
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  Live to Learnposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Until elected to his first political position he is aspiring.
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  Alternative Primeposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Your "SEMANTIC" Response is Noted, however, "Delsuional Donald" ACTs like one & Begs for Money just like every other Politician ~ The only Difference is a Technicality ~
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  Live to Learnposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  So, I'm right. Wouldn't it have been easier to say that?
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Kathleen Cochranposted 8 years ago
I heard Fareed yesterday as well. The difference between a liar and a BSer was very insightful.
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Castlepalomaposted 8 years ago
I've had to deal with Mafias, millionaire and billionaires in my day in the entertainment business. No man I have ever met, holds the candle for BSing than Donald Trump. He reminds me of villains like Biff Tannen, or Lex Luthor or in real life Mussolini as he run for President.

Lying can mean you may not want to do something. Where BSing you don't even care that your lying, which is more harmful.
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peoplepower73posted 8 years ago
colorfulone: Thank you for posting that link. It is very interesting, but I think this forum is getting off track. It is about Trump being a liar or a B.S.-er, not about Hillary. I guess it is only natural that when people are accused of something that they are compared with others. It goes like this: Is Trump a liar or a B.S.-er? "Well how about Hillary she is not only a liar and B.S.-er, but also a thief, a robber, and a murderer, and so is Bill."
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  Live to Learnposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  The problem is that Trump is only being discussed because he is running for president.Hillary is, naturally, going to be included in the conversation.
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  peoplepower73posted 8 years agoin reply to this
  This graphic is false. It just shows more Trump lies and propaganda. B.S.
  
  http://www.cbsnews.com/news/donald-trum … -on-taxes/
  
  And we have more B.S. Now he is suggesting that NRA people should assassinate Hillary, because she wants to take your guns away. If Trump had an ounce of brains, he would know that any action requires congress' approval. Anyway she doesn't want to take guns away. Every time gun people here the phrase "gun control" they immediately think they are coming for their guns. Thank you right wing propaganda and Fox News for brainwashing the public.
  
  http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/10/us/po … inton.html
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  Live to Learnposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  I am beginning to think all democrats are chicken little in disguise. No one suggested Hillary be assassinated. I heard the clip. I didn't get that from it at all and I am not a fan of Donald Trump. He is an idiot, but at least he isn't a liar and a cheat like Hillary. I'd classify myself as more of a Hillary hater.
  
  I don't know if you have viewed the clips the far right has provided where Hillary referenced the assassination of JFK as to why she was going to stay in the race against Obama for the Democratic nomination in the election they ran against each other. That sounded more like a veiled threat. And, Biden's comments about his gun and Obama. That sounded worse than Trump. Hypocrisy thy name is democrat.
  
  Really. You guys need to get a grip.
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  IslandBitesposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  
  Funny, but sad.
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  peoplepower73posted 8 years agoin reply to this
  livetolearn: I just heard tonight that Trump said: "Barack Obama is the founder of ISIS." That is a complete lie and a crock of sh*t. It is also an insult to my intelligence. Obama wasn't even president when ISIS was formed. ISIS was formed when George W toppled Saddam Hussein. Saddam was a Sunni and Anwar Al Baghadi is also a Sunni and was sent to Camp Bucca where he was imprisoned along with many of Saddam's high ranking officers.While in prison, he developed the plans for ISIS. He was released as a model prisoner. They shut down Camp Bucca sometime later and he regrouped with Saddam's high ranking officers to form ISIS, Anwar Al Baghadi is the head of ISIS and calls himself the Caliph who's goal is to create a Caliphate in the mid east. Obama inherited ISIS from Bush.
  
  The more Trump talks, the more lies and B.S. come out of his mouth. Every time he is called on something absurd, he just says he wasn't serious about that or denies that he even said it. The problem is his audience and supporters take him seriously and that can be very dangerous. Trevor Noah says Trump is a stand-up comedian. He is just in the wrong venue to be funny. If he can't speak clearly and his statements are subject to interpretation, then in my book he is not presidential material.
  
  Putting your hands on the nuclear codes is not a joke.
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  Live to Learnposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  I don't think the point of the statement as to Obama being the founder of Isis implies he was there at the early stages. I think it refers to his opinion of the effect of Obama's Middle East policies. You can't say that Isis was a major force in the region prior to his presidency and prior to Hillary's actions as Secretary of State.
  
  This is why it is difficult to take Hillary supporters seriously. They don't stop to think beyond their initial prejudice. They are too negative and too arrogant, as if their limited thought processing abilities when interpreting the spoken word are superior.
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  peoplepower73posted 8 years agoin reply to this
  livetolearn: What? You just proved my point. You interpreted what Trump said. The difference between Hillary and Trump is that Hillary is guilty until proven innocent and Trump is guilty in front of God and everybody. Because he says these things and they are recorded for all the world to see and hear. And then you and people like you will not accept what he says, and say that's not really what he is saying. This morning, he included Hillary in the Founding ISIS B.S. The man is a nut case.
  
  http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-e … op+News%29
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  Live to Learnposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  LOL. You consistently prove my point. What's funny is that you are incapable of seeing that.
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  peoplepower73posted 8 years agoin reply to this
  livetolearn: How have I proven your point consistently?
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  Live to Learnposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  By choosing the most negative interpretation consistently, understanding that their can be other interpretations but insisting since a negative interpretation can be found it must take precedent and then, of course, not willing to view Hillary through those smoke colored glasses.
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  PrettyPantherposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Does it bother you that Trump's words must be "interpreted" on almost a daily basis? Do you think this is acceptable for a president? Do you think his inability to day what he means (according to his supporters) could be a serious problem, especially when it comes to foreign relations?
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  Live to Learnposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  I don't perceive it as a problem on the campaign trail. It wouldn't matter if he had someone write his words, analyze them almost endlessly, prior to allowing him to speak them; the opposing side would still claim negative intent. That's politics.
  
  As to foreign affairs? I don't know. Obama had made embarrassing missteps. Bush did. They all will. That's being human. I do think it is time to diligently work to put our own house in order. Some of Trump's policy suggestions are right on track, in my opinion.
  
  Looking at the largest picture possible, taking into account Hillary's track record, Trump's many faults do not outweigh hers, in my opinion. I'm not happy with either choice but without an alternative we have to do what we think is best for the entire nation and put party affiliation to the side.
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Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years ago
DT suffers from several types of mental illness:
1. Displays temper tantrums.
2. Republican Convention was a Disaster.
3. Mocks disabled Americans.
4. Specializes in swindling:
a. The elderly
b. The uneducated

We need concrete examples / proof.
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peoplepower73posted 8 years ago
livetolearn: There is a difference in claiming negative intent to well crafted rhetoric. These are not gaffs that normal politicians make.. This man speaks off the cuff and not only lies, he doesn't think he is lying and denies what he has just said or done.

This is not a figment of my imagination. This is recorded for the world to see and hear. Believe me, Trump is not best for this nation when his speeches have to be subjected to damage control by his staff and supporters.

I get it, you want the lessor of two evils, but can you even picture this man giving a a state of the union speech? He can't even use a teleprompter properly. He is a master at speaking off the cuff. The only problem is his speech is like a shell and pea game.

You don't know which shell has the pea under it. He will say something like, "I love babies and then say get that kid out of here." Does he love babies or does he hate them? You tell me. That's just one example. Since his speech is subject to interpretation, it fits all conditions for him. It's a menu, You get to pick and choose what part fits you best.
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  Live to Learnposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  A liar who doesn't know he's lying. A liar who knows she is. A guy who speaks off the cuff and can't use a teleprompter. A woman well versed in using a teleprompter and has to explain why associates say she doesn't mean what she says...it's just said to garner votes.
  
  Hmm. I suppose you see that as a toughie.
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  peoplepower73posted 8 years agoin reply to this
  livetolearn: I can prove beyond a reasonable doubt about Trump because it is there for the world to see right now in real time. He has just stated again that he is not wrong about Obama, Hillary, and ISIS.. Can you do the same thing about Hillary? You have to go back 15 years to dig up dirt on Hillary that she has never been charged for. Trump is happening right now before our very eyes. Hillary admitted she made mistakes about her email. Trump is not capable of admitting that he has every been wrong about anything. Do you think what he does about insults, slandering, defamation of character is a good thing? All one has to do is criticize him and he will attack you like a banshee. He can be baited by simple tweets.
  
  http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/ … li=BBnb7Kz
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  Live to Learnposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  I will agree with you that Trump has a tendency to dig his heels in and refuse to admit a mistake.
  
  I doubt we will ever see eye to eye but Hillary has consistently proven herself to be a liar. Simply because one is good at it doesn't make one less of a liar than one who is not.
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  peoplepower73posted 8 years agoin reply to this
  livetolearn: No it is the degree of lying and the frequency of lying that makes them different. If and when Hillary lies, she knows she is lying. What makes Trump disturbing is he doesn't even know he is lying. He actually believes what he is saying.
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  peoplepower73posted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Here's a video of Trump as a flip-flopper.
  
  https://www.facebook.com/OccupyDemocrat … 309404321/
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  Castlepalomaposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Trump is the American champion at multi contradictions. He is a freight train wreck ready to make a quick right hand turn based on an obvious BS counter.
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Alternative Primeposted 8 years ago
Regarding the DEBATEs, or what could quite conceivably turn out to be ANOTHER "Delsuional Donald" Cowardice CANCELLATION ~

During the Negotiations, Donald CLAIMED he was Upset because at least one of the DEBATEs was scheduled against an NFL Game ~ He explained that he even "RECEIVED a LETTER" from the NFL in which representatives of the Sports Franchise EXPRESSED their Dismay with the Scheduling as well ~

But GUESS What? The Media INVESTIGATED his claim & Quickly DISCOVERED that there was NO LETTER SENT TO DONALD ~ ~ Caught AGAIN ~

Is this a LIE or BS??? Or what I now Believe to be a "DELUSION", a Mental DISORDER where Donald Truly Believes he had Receieved a LETTER, Opened it, and READ It, when in REALITY, it NEVER Happened ~

UNBELIEVABLE ~

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/ear … -schedule/
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  peoplepower73posted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Alternative Prime: I would have never taken it to that level except in jest. But now that he insists on Hillary and Obama being the founders of ISIS, Fox news can't even convince him that isn't what he meant. He insists that is truly what he meant and believes. It seems to fit a pattern of delusion. I know he has delusions of grandeur. And there are many statements that he has been called on that he says he never said them. Maybe he really believes that. Time will tell as we continue downstream.
  
  I know one thing, the republican party is between a rock and a hard place with this guy. Many of the congressman that are up for re-election are forced to endorse him, because they don't want to lose their seats, not because of what he has said or done.
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  Alternative Primeposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Therein LIEs one of "Delusional Donald's" Mental DISORDERs ~
  
  In my Opinion, he ACTUALLY Believes he Received a LETTER from the NFL which NEVER Happened & YES, he ACTUALLY BELIEVEs his own "FICTIONAL Babblings" about the quote un-quote "FOUNDERs of ISIS" & YES, he has a SCHEME to "BLOW-Up" the GLOBAL Economy by INTENTIONALLY Defaulting on the U.S. DEBT & YES, he ACTUALLY Believes Ted Cruz' Father was involved in the ASSASSINATION of JFK etc etc ~
  
  ~ ANY Psychiatric EXPERT would come to the OBVIOUS Conclusion that he Exhibits Clear SIGNs of a "Delusional Disorder" at the very least which is also CONNECTED to his Pathalogical Lying & Persistent STREAM of BS~
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IslandBitesposted 8 years ago

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ahorsebackposted 8 years ago
How sophomoronic , The left nor the right will ever change its genetic ideologies , must be just the crying out of attention seekers who state emotional opinions like these ! How Trump bashers can continue while silently supporting a treasonous campaigner like Hillary kinda baffles the more reasonable minds !
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  Castlepalomaposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  May the best liar win, they usually do.
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  peoplepower73posted 8 years agoin reply to this
  ahrorseback: I love the way you self aggrandize, just like Trump,while insulting those that don't agree with you, just like Trump. No wonder you support him. You need him as an authority figure because you have this crazy notion that he is going to save you and yours from the big bad liberals.
  
  Here is a reality check for everybody. It doesn't matter what the candidates say and pledge. Once in office, it's up to congress to vote for or against their platform. Further more, they can't be held accountable for not fulfilling their pledges and promises.
  
  The GOP congressmen who are up for re-election this term are panicked. They don't want to lose their seats. So they are backing away from Trump and putting their money where they can get re-elected. And Trump is already crying wolf by pre-conditioning his followers into believing if Hillary is elected, it's because the system is rigged toward voter fraud. If she is elected, they will use it against her for her term, even if it is 8 years. There are some people out there that after 8 years, they still believe Obama is a Muslim and now they believe that He and Hillary are the founders of ISIS. Talk about sophomoric and just plain stupid. Trump flip-flops by the hour, like a caught flounder, but they don't care because they believe he will save them from all the evil that has been created.
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  ahorsebackposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Peoplepower , Put down that news paper and learn to really use the old noggin instead of lame rhetoric ! The media IS in Hillary's bed - scary I know but imagine what it causes to genuine honesty , that is where you lose me every time , your dishonesty isn't permanent though , it can be retrieved by individual though and reasoned dissemination of rhetoric down to truth .
  
  You can do it Peoplepower , just try.
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  peoplepower73posted 8 years agoin reply to this
  ahorseback: Quit listening to Fox news. You have been brainwashed. Fifty high ranking GOP members are backing away from him. Seventy Five others have signed a document that's states, they want GOP resources to go to re-election campaigns for congressmen, not to Trump.
  
  You blame the media the same as Trump. He puts these lame ass statements out there for the world to see and hear. The problem is his followers could care less what he says because they are the disenfranchised people of this country who think he goes going to make them great again.
  
  They have bought into his B.S. in all it's glory. They are wearing rose colored glasses just like you are. He is a big shell and pea game that requires all of his rhetoric to be subject to interpretation and then he doesn't even agree with the interpretations. The reality is your GOP is out of sync with the changing culture in this country and they don't know how to play catch up ball.
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Just listen to his actual speeches on You Tube. Not the biased clips the media wants you to see.
  If you do, you will see sincerity and where he is truly coming from.
  He is not bought and paid for.
  He is coming from his own person.
  Pretty good.
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  peoplepower73posted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Kathryn: I think you have it wrong. YouTube has the clips. The media broadcasts his entire rallies and and interviews. in real time, not edited or YouTube presentations. You have to understand. This is a digital world. It's all ones and zeros. I have seen his campaign commercials that show Hillary making a speech without any audio, but with a banner across the frame that says. "Hillary wants to raise taxes on the middle class." Nothing could be further from the truth. If she said that, it would be poison for her campaign.
  
  This man will say anything and do anything to get elected. That is his goal. He is not for the Republican Party, He is for himself and his goal is to get elected so that he can feed his deranged ego. He loves to win and if anything or anyone is an obstacle to that, he will take them out with insults and lies. He even lies about his lies. That works great in the business world for him, but this is world politics and the world is watching. There are many world leaders who are very concerned about this man, including many in "his republican party."
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Is Trump a liar or a B.S-er?

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