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Equality vs. Prosperity

  1. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
    Kathryn L Hillposted 11 days ago

    Is America being destroyed for the ideal of equality? Is this ideal worth the destruction that must ensue for it to be realized? Will it ever be realized? Can it ever be realized? Liberal/Progressive democrats, what is your take on EQUALITY in America and will it be worth it in the final analysis?

    If equality is not the agenda of your party, what is? Some of us really need to understand the left and what their vision for the future of America is.

    Thank you.

  2. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
    Kathryn L Hillposted 11 days ago

    America is being destroyed by the left in many ways. If not the left, then who? I watched two new movies out from Red Box: Baby Driver and Rough Night. Rough Night depicts sexual situations, including swinging, lesbian themes/imagery/scenes and the easily justified murder. Baby Driver involves an abundance of senseless killing and the committing of terrible crimes while the lead character, Ansel Elgort, endures bullying and abuse. Even the much tamer movie, The Beguiled, revealed the most ridiculous situation of two women, five female students and one narcissistic civil war soldier. Colin Ferrel in this movie, was weak and too easily manipulated by the likes of lead female, Nicole Kidman.

    These movies depicted evil, weak or effeminate or just plain stupid, men. And movies today can easliy be viewed by those under 18 despite any R ratings.

    The Progressive Left continues to eradicate the tyranny of Jesus/God and America's core morals/values,traditions for the sake of (wanton) freedom/equality for all by way of wealth-distribution/punishing the rich ...

    and VOTES from the emasculated, weak and EASILY beguiled!

    1. kenneth avery profile image85
      kenneth averyposted 11 days agoin reply to this

      You make several valid points. One being the influence that gives off the Anti-THINGS, bullying, etc., seen by young people advertised to be good movies, but what do trailers know? Nothing.
      You are onto something--do not get weary in well-doing.

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
        Kathryn L Hillposted 11 days agoin reply to this

        Thank You! It has become so obvious. A war is being fought on this soil on many levels, it seems. One level is through the sickening influence of Hollywood. The movies, The Beguiled and Rough Night are eerily similar in the fact that many women are surrounding and manipulating (eventually killing) one man. Who's egos are these movies catering to? men's or women's? Strategy: Attack at the basic ego level and attack the youth.

        And The Youth ARE being attacked, I believe, on psychological levels.

    2. The0NatureBoy profile image52
      The0NatureBoyposted 11 days agoin reply to this

      Kathryn,
      The U.S. has never practiced equality therefore it's destruction is because it doesn't practice it. Her destruction is because economics and the dream of material wealth does not allow for equality because it is not profitable. However, because it isn't living by the "United" portion of its name she will, prior to her demise, be the first nation to experience equality which will cause its destruction by those greedy capitalist. The Zeroversial law is "if you wear the name you must prove it sometime during your existence" and because she named herself "United" she must at some point prior to her destruction achieve it.

      No divided nation can maintain itself, as the United States is indicating, because the greed and selfishness of those who are supposed to be "trustees of the people" refuse to do what We The People voice as our desire. They do what the money controlling "Deep State" tells them and the people are not willing to do what the Constitution demands of We The People and control the governors. In that light, her destructions coming faster and faster because of becoming an open Dictatorship contrary to its name and Constitution's intention.

    3. Aime F profile image86
      Aime Fposted 11 days agoin reply to this

      So... movies should only be about strong, straight, masculine men? Gee, that sounds interesting.

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
        Kathryn L Hillposted 11 days agoin reply to this

        Movies should not be corrupting the youth. We need their willingness to cherish what is good about LIFE. What they are exposed to has an influence, whether you want to admit it or not.

        1. Aime F profile image86
          Aime Fposted 11 days agoin reply to this

          Well that’s why movies have age ratings.

          1. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
            Kathryn L Hillposted 11 days agoin reply to this

            Very funny. They have total access to any movie.

        2. wilderness profile image98
          wildernessposted 11 days agoin reply to this

          Not that I necessarily disagree with you, but with the numbers of people paying money to watch this stuff, does it not occur that there are other concepts about what is good about life?  Other concepts about what is enjoyable or entertaining?

          1. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
            Kathryn L Hillposted 11 days agoin reply to this

            People will watch whatever they want for various reasons, just as I did. I regretted watching these movies. But the influence on the youth is unknown. The movies are exposing them to concepts and ideas which are not in the realm of a happy life. Youth is a happy time. Why cloud it up?

            1. wilderness profile image98
              wildernessposted 10 days agoin reply to this

              Everything in their life exposes them to new concepts and ideas.  Some are in the realm of a happy life (according to some people), some are not (according to some people).  And those people will not always agree with your own choice.

              But I do begin to question if all children, or even most, have a firm grasp on the difference between fantasy and reality in today's world that is filled with fiction.

              1. MizBejabbers profile image89
                MizBejabbersposted 9 days agoin reply to this

                For once I agree with you, Wilderness. Coming from a rural area where life and death were everyday occurrences, children were taught realism. Point a gun at an animal, pull the trigger and it falls over dead. No getting up and running off behind a tree like they do in the movies.
                It is unrealistic to believe that we are all "equal". Maybe in God's eyes our souls are, but we are born as humans in unequal circumstances with unequal intelligence. Legislating equality cannot guarantee it among humans.

                1. wilderness profile image98
                  wildernessposted 9 days agoin reply to this

                  Our souls may be equal, our "value", or "worth" may be equal (IMO they are) but we certainly are not equal in abilities or in potentialities.  One has only to count the number of men giving birth to a new life to verify this.

              2. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
                Kathryn L Hillposted 9 days agoin reply to this

                thats right too! and the type of fiction … yikes

  3. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
    Kathryn L Hillposted 11 days ago

    Keven Spacey, in the movie Baby Driver is pathetically evil. He is probably done. How is that for your last hurrah, Mr. Spacey? Don't care?


    Apparently he had nothing to lose … I wonder why?


    http://search.yahoo.com/search?ei=utf-8 … n+the+News

  4. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
    Kathryn L Hillposted 11 days ago

    Abuse of freedom of speech. Morals and democracy go hand-in-hand. Without morals, a democracy is doomed.

    1. kenneth avery profile image85
      kenneth averyposted 11 days agoin reply to this

      @Kathryn, No argument here.

    2. wilderness profile image98
      wildernessposted 11 days agoin reply to this

      Do you mean without morals or without your idea of morality?  Because I doubt there has ever been a country that agreed with all of what you call moral - it is the way of the world that every people will decide what is moral for themselves.

      But you may be right:

      "For when the plebs discover that they can vote themselves bread and circuses without limit and that the productive members of the body politic cannot stop them, they will do so, until the state bleeds to death, or in its weakened condition the state succumbs to an invader—the barbarians enter Rome.” (Robert Heinlein)

      We (the plebs) have discovered that, using the might of the majority vote, can vote ourselves bread and circuses at will, to be paid for by others.  And we do so at will; the "bullying", the evil, the control are not only on the side of the rich; the plebs have discovered their (democratic) power and use it freely.  The immorality of simply taking whatever we wish from those that have something we want will end our culture if not brought under control.

  5. Credence2 profile image80
    Credence2posted 11 days ago

    The ideal of equality is what preserves America, do you think I am going to live in a society where equality of opportunity is not the standard? Why should those that are privileged in a way unattainable by the masses be allowed to lord over the rest of us? Do we call it the ‘divine rights’ of Kings and Lords?

    Equality may never be realized perfectly, but we must be in constant pursuit of it to the greatest extent practical.

    It better be worth it, for without it we cannot maintain what relative peace and harmony we have here.

    Those that are not for equality of opportunity in America have to be in favor the nation’s ultimate destruction.

    This is from the LEFT and it is my vision.

    PS, why get your drawers in a bunch over movies and the tired old right wing bromide of movies corrupting society?

    1. wilderness profile image98
      wildernessposted 11 days agoin reply to this

      Do we all have equal opportunity to garner free food, fee health care, free housing, etc. without having to work for it?  Is it your vision to provide these things for anyone wanting it?

      1. Credence2 profile image80
        Credence2posted 11 days agoin reply to this

        "Do we all have equal opportunity to garner free food, fee health care, free housing, etc. without having to work for it?  Is it your vision to provide these things for anyone wanting it?"


        No, equal opportunity to earn and acquire that means equal education opportunity in the beginning and equal employment opportunity later. It means that people(everyone) is given the opportunity to go as far as their ability and ambitions will take them, not just lip service to the same.  Does the very concept of equal opportunity to obtain the goods and services, and a desired employment attainment equate to you as free giveaways?

        Is it any wonder that I hold so much ire toward the Right?

        Do you have an issue with this type of equality, Wilderness?

        1. wilderness profile image98
          wildernessposted 11 days agoin reply to this

          As a dream it's pretty nice.  As a real possibility it is an abysmal failure for we DON'T have equal opportunity and never will - the physical and mental differences between individuals makes it impossible.  In addition, the environmental differences make it very, very difficult and that, too, is something we will never overcome.

          But it IS something to shoot for, even knowing it is an impossible goal that we will never reach, or actually even come very close to.  An unreal, impossible utopia that nevertheless can, and should, be reached towards.

          I guess we could, by taking parenting out of the equation and handing it to government, get a little closer than we could otherwise - do you see that as viable?

          1. Credence2 profile image80
            Credence2posted 11 days agoin reply to this

            "I guess we could, by taking parenting out of the equation and handing it to government, get a little closer than we could otherwise - do you see that as viable?"

            Good parenting is always essential but part of good parenting means having the availability adequate resources to offer their young, the advantages of the affluent making sure their darling little Dodsworth has every advantage whether warranted or not.

            And toward the ends of promoting equality in our society, the Government is a welcome partner in the pursuit. I did not say just hand it over to Government, however. Because, I guarantee you that we are not going to get along without it. So, regardless of how unlikely it is that the tables will ever be even, better to work on making it so rather than submit to an oligarchy or plutocracy, that is not America.

            At least, not the one that I know that wants to survive and prosper.

            1. wilderness profile image98
              wildernessposted 11 days agoin reply to this

              Govt. HAS done some real good in the walk toward equality.  But lately it seems to have forgotten the long term goal in a decided preference for immediate positive results...and future negative ones.

              So we have classrooms dedicated to good grades instead of learning.  We have generations being taught that effort is not necessary - that whatever they want is theirs for the taking.  We have gangs of kids terrorizing neighborhoods because they aren't allowed to work - to produce anything of value.  We have schools lowering standards to accommodate those that can't learn well.  We have destroyed the meaning of awards as we feel it necessary to be "equal" and give everyone an award, earned or not.

              Govt. is now lowering not only average but individual expectations and abilities.  Time...no, past time to acknowledge that we are NOT all equal in abilities and allow those that can to proceed beyond those that can't instead of holding them back and sneering at the "darling Dodsworth's", rich or poor, of the country.

              1. Credence2 profile image80
                Credence2posted 10 days agoin reply to this

                "Govt. HAS done some real good in the walk toward equality.  But lately it seems to have forgotten the long term goal in a decided preference for immediate positive results...and future negative ones."

                The Government needs to continue that walk and consider it always as a work in progress and as part of promoting a more cohesive society. I am for the long term goal, but I don't want to see any backsliding on that path. The goal should be a society based on a meritocracy, benefits that any and all can attain to, if they so desire. So, if inequity is an unavoidable reality let it be based solely on merit.
                ---------------------------------------------------
                So we have classrooms dedicated to good grades instead of learning.  We have generations being taught that effort is not necessary - that whatever they want is theirs for the taking.  We have gangs of kids terrorizing neighborhoods because they aren't allowed to work - to produce anything of value.  We have schools lowering standards to accommodate those that can't learn well.  We have destroyed the meaning of awards as we feel it necessary to be "equal" and give everyone an award, earned or not.

                I would like to know how do you know so much about 'this generation' and its attitudes, you don't see any of that attitude in your kid, do you? I don't buy the 'handout mentality' that conservatives love to trumpet all the time. Why aren't the kids allowed to work? Where are the jobs for the teens that use to be there? Structural changes in the economy have adults doing works that kids used to do. I am opposed to reducing standards, just want to make sure that everyone has an equal chance to meet them. Fire Departments should not lower their physical standards to accommodate women, for example. But there are some women that can meet them, and some men that cannot, all the same. So, the opportunity should be afforded to all.

                ---------------------------------
                "Govt. is now lowering not only average but individual expectations and abilities.  Time...no, past time to acknowledge that we are NOT all equal in abilities and allow those that can to proceed beyond those that can't instead of holding them back and sneering at the "darling Dodsworth's", rich or poor, of the country."

                Yes, we are not equal in abilities but we are all equal in the sense that the opportunity to compete on level playing field is to be available to everyone. Is Dodsworth locked into a successful path, using his father's 'legacy' status to get into prominent Universities, for example,  while the ghetto kid with ability and talent can never see the light of day?

                1. wilderness profile image98
                  wildernessposted 10 days agoin reply to this

                  "I don't buy the 'handout mentality' that conservatives love to trumpet all the time." 

                  Look around you.  Look at your family, your friends, your neighbors; those that you have some knowledge about.  What percentage of them are getting some kind of handout from federal, state or local governments?  Unless you surround yourself with unusually rich people, there will be in the neighborhood of 40% of the people getting handouts.  And you say you don't buy that it is happening?

                  Has the ghetto kid been taught to read, write and do her numbers?  Has (s)he been taught the value of hard work, of being responsible for self and that gang life leads nowhere?  Has (s)he been taught not to bring kids into the world until ready for parenthood?  Has (s)he learned that there are consequences for his actions - consequences that can be very, very bad?

                  No?  Then until you're ready to take that kid out of the ghetto when they're born you're not going to get that mythical level play field even if you ignore that differences in ability already make nearly as unlevel as it is possible to get.

                  "Where are the jobs for the teens that use to be there?"

                  No, they haven't gone to structural changes in the economy.  They've gone, mostly, to liberal policies of paying people that refuse to support themselves and can thus get by on minimum wage...plus large handouts.  They've gone to safety policies that border insanity and deny reality (did you know a 15 year old cannot legally pour coffee in a fast food joint?  Or use the grill?).  And they've gone from a young population that is handed everything they want without any effort on their part.

                  I started work at 14 - a paper route and mowing lawns - and progressed to farm work, and a gas station as soon as I could drive.  Even did a stint at a fast food joint, cooking.  I suspect you did much the same, but how many kids will do that today?  The video game is just too important, time spent on FB the same and god forbid they might have to develop a sense of responsibility.  Out of the 4 children in my life old enough to earn money, only one does so and then only in the summer (babysitting).  Another had a job (fast food) but quit in just 2 weeks because she didn't "like it".  The other two haven't tried.  Even though they have an abnormally high amount of family chores (forced to work, in other words) none have a strong enough desire to actually earn what they want.  They'll wait until it is given to them instead.

                  1. Credence2 profile image80
                    Credence2posted 9 days agoin reply to this

                    I don't buy the 'handout mentality' that conservatives love to trumpet all the time." 

                    "Look around you.  Look at your family, your friends, your neighbors; those that you have some knowledge about.  What percentage of them are getting some kind of handout from federal, state or local governments?  Unless you surround yourself with unusually rich people, there will be in the neighborhood of 40% of the people getting handouts.  And you say you don't buy that it is happening?"

                    Well, I hope that you don't consider Social Security a 'handout'. When I look at the crowd that I am around a great deal, 40% is a bit much. Don't know a lot of kids, those that I do know are still in school. All the other adults that I know are gainfully employed and not getting anything outside of what they earn in the marketplace.
                    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    "Has the ghetto kid been taught to read, write and do her numbers?  Has (s)he been taught the value of hard work, of being responsible for self and that gang life leads nowhere?  Has (s)he been taught not to bring kids into the world until ready for parenthood?  Has (s)he learned that there are consequences for his actions - consequences that can be very, very bad?

                    We have to insure that educational opportunities are made available at standard levels across the board in public schools, and parenting and the concepts improve. Underfunded and substandard schools and facilities puts you behind the 8 ball right away, that is a disadvantage never to be experienced by Dodsworth.  My angle says, does the kid have equal opportunity to acquire the better things, even when he or she is properly prepared? Those are the issues that I had to contend with growing up. Or, are they automatically excluded based on lack of inherited wealth or the color of their skin?
                    -------------------------------------------------

                    No?  Then until you're ready to take that kid out of the ghetto when they're born you're not going to get that mythical level play field even if you ignore that differences in ability already make nearly as unlevel as it is possible to get.

                    As I said the 'system' and the 'home team' needs constant tweaking so that playing field need not be so 'mythical" and beyond reach. I still get po-ed when I think of all bigotry and wasted talent, where are our Rockefellers, Carnegies', Henry Ford, it was not just their entrepreneurship that allowed for their success, and you know what I mean.
                    ----------------------------------



                    "No, they haven't gone to structural changes in the economy.  They've gone, mostly, to liberal policies of paying people that refuse to support themselves and can thus get by on minimum wage...plus large handouts.  They've gone to safety policies that border insanity and deny reality (did you know a 15 year old cannot legally pour coffee in a fast food joint?  Or use the grill?).  And they've gone from a young population that is handed everything they want without any effort on their part."

                    Liberal policies like minimum wage laws that have been standard here since the 1930's, and is standard in virtually every industrialized nation in the world? You think that so much of the world might know something that American conservatives do not? I have never said anything about paying people who refuse to work. I would be the first to take the 'handout' money and direct it toward promoting self-sufficiency through job training programs and sensible tax breaks for business that hire these folks.
                    But, I would not just leave everyone with nothing, a la conservative

                    Wilderness, at least in Colorado you are not allowed to engage in standard employment until you are 16. I think that is totally appropriate, pouring coffee in a fast food joint can easily translate as capable of being hired for work in a steel mill. Must of this is the residual of child labor law and I have to support it.
                    I had my paper route as early 13, mowed laws and posted handbills at about the same time. I liked having my own money to do with as I pleased and that was the motivation. Don't kids like money? Are their parents to quick to give allowances without having them earn it? That is not liberal, it is just bad parenting. It is not liberal for parents to abdicate their proper role as legal guardian. You and I both know from experience that the consequence for not applying yourself on your first job is no money, and we are getting nowhere. We learned that.  That is why, by definition, work as it is is not designed to be fun. Spoiling children is not liberal, it is just bad parenting, period. Remember our conversation about the merits of corporal punishment? I am not so noble about the work ethic, if I could acquire all that I wanted with a magic wand, I would dispense with all the nobility of work stuff  because life is too short to be doing anything other than what it is that I want to do. But, alas, the reality says; no work, no money, no money, no life....

  6. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
    Kathryn L Hillposted 11 days ago

    …. equality of outcome or opportunity, People? what do YOU want?

  7. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
    Kathryn L Hillposted 11 days ago

    Our rights from God are granted equally. The US Constitution is designed to protect those rights.
    But, only the willingness of the people to cherish all that is good, is, ultimately, what protects our ability to survive, remain free and pursue happiness. Thankfully, the majority (still) do.

    1. The0NatureBoy profile image52
      The0NatureBoyposted 10 days agoin reply to this

      It is up to We The People to ensure the government does what the Preamble intended ... [The Preamble
      With the Preamble reading “We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America” revealing what the entire document intends to achieve the first require is to correctly interpret it phrase by phrase.

      “We The People of the united States” are every man, baby, child or adolescent [aka prepubescent man], boys and girls [pubescent man], born in this nation or immigrants who received citizenship status and any Native American who chose to live outside of their Independent State their Treaties made with the United States’ granted them to make the United States their nation of choice.

      The phrase “in Order to” is required to be before each of the six intended achievements to be accomplished by the document that makes them read with interpretations as …

      “In Order to form a more perfect Union” which cannot be done by making differences between people, political figures, governmental servants, security agencies and judges that include lawyers, police and sheriffs, nor because of genders, ethnic groups, physical abilities, secret societies, sexual orientations, workers unions or other organizations and social titles endowed by schooling:

      “In Order to establish Justice” means to provide proper compensation for actions; which having different compensations for politicians, government agencies including police and judges, or because of classes, genders, ethnic groups, physical abilities, secret societies, sexual orientations, unions or other organizations and social title schools endow does not do:

      “In Order to insure domestic Tranquility” is to eliminate grieving because of other’s disrespecting behaviors which is impossible while allowing bulling for sexual orientations, ethnics groups, physical abilities, religions and any other appearance or reasons:

      “In Order to provide for the common defence” includes to protect people, land, plants, resources and animated life forms from any destruction without a justified cause because they are all equal to the whole and that can never be done with defense forces maintaining a presence in foreign territories:

      “In Order to promote the general Welfare” includes the well being of the environment all entities are to share equally for maintaining our survival. It is impossible to promote in a system making differences in workers’ compensation because every position is required for the company’s desired results, excluding company’s wealth. A general and equal welfare system cannot be achieved except in a “service for survival” type government as the Natives American had before the United States of America was formed:

      “And in Order to secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity” is for the people of that time and future generations. There is no liberty when governors, security agencies, police, judges, lawyers have a different standard for freedoms than allowed the people. “Do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America” insinuates all of the people herein are equal. It is stating We the People have agreed to be governed by both genders and all ethnic backgrounds of man we chose from among ourselves to trust for maintaining this document’s standard of governing. It is an unbreakable contract between the governed and the governors less the governors are removed by the governed for any misdemeanor, high crime [felony], bribery or treason breach of contract Amendment 10 and Article 2.4 demands. It also imply when governors reach their service limit they are We the People again as they were prior to serving otherwise nothing is perfected except the multitude of divisions herein today.

      About The Articles and Amendments
      The Articles and Amendments are primarily for establishing the responsibilities, behaviors and duties for both The People and their Trustees preventing them from further service after misbehaving which require them to have integrity and live circumspect prior to and during their service to the people.

      Article 1 outline what can and cannot be done by Congress, Article 2 for Presidents and Article 3 for the Judicial Branch including Lawyers, Marshalls, Police officers and Sheriffs. Article 4 establishes States’ and Citizens’ Rights. Article 5 allows for amending the Constitution. Article 6 established the Supremacy of the Constitution plus the Laws and Treaties written reflecting the Preamble’s intent. Article 7 shows who Ratified the Constitution and what states they represented. The Articles of Amendments straightens the people over the government by establishing behaviors the governors are not to do and what the citizens are to do to ensure the people are governed rather than controlled like the government’s chattel as seen today.]
      ...because we don't our "god given" and "Constitution provided" rights are not being met.

  8. Onusonus profile image81
    Onusonusposted 11 days ago

    http://thefederalistpapers.integratedmarket.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/17555424_1475022952518531_534927186_n-1.jpg

  9. ahorseback profile image80
    ahorsebackposted 10 days ago

    To Liberals ,  Equality and Prosperity Go Hand In Hand ,

    Just as long as it ALSO involves a  program for economic reparations , perhaps just as long as there is an increase in benefits ,  a funded entity to "improve " the working atmosphere, maybe a  free education ride   and just as long as it comes from the usual single payer origination of the federal government  and is absolutely free to them.

    How about a little equal prosperity accountability ?

 
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