Conservatism is......Being Discombobulated...Slowly but S-U-R-E-L-Y

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   gmwilliamsposted 6 years ago

   
   As we all know, Trump made derogatory, inflammatory statements about Haiti & some African countries.  He further stated that immigrants should come from so-called desirable nations instead of so-called undesirable nations.  Even though Trump was talking in so-called code, the racial language was apparent.
   
   Conservatives, reactionaries, & retrogressives are being threatened by progressivism which upsets their order of things.  Conservatives reactionaries, & retrogressives want America to return to an era where everyone was in his/her place & to dare to venture out of such a place brought dire consequences.  They don't want an America where people can experience full equality & use their fullest human potential for the betterment of themselves & society.  They are threatened by new societal paradigms.
   
   In essence, Conservatives, reactionaries, & retrogressives are quite threatened that America is changing & becoming more inclusive for all.  Such pundits such as Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Laura Ingraham, David Duke, & others of their ilk are pushing for the old America.  Conservatives, reactionaries, & retrogressives are fighting to retain the so-called old order.  They will resort(& have resorted) to means to retain that old order.  Progressivism is here to stay & there are some who are quite UNCOMFORTABLE w/that.  Your thoughts?

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      wildernessposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      "Even though Trump was talking in so-called code, the racial language was apparent."
      
      This "code"; something the TDS crowd uses to change meaning and/or words in order to have something to complain about?  In this case so that the race card can be played?
      
      Because for sure there is nothing whatsoever racist about recognizing that some nations are more similar to our own culture than others.  It's called "reality", not "racist".

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         Credence2posted 6 years agoin reply to this

         Because for sure there is nothing whatsoever racist about recognizing that some nations are more similar to our own culture than others.  It's called "reality", not "racist".
         
         What non-white countries are similar in culture to our own? Is that possible? You are 'on the spot' now, what is your explanation. You guys always dance and equivocate around the issue, so what is your 'reality' in the face of that?

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   2. 81

      GA Andersonposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      Greetings GM Williams, I pondered  how to address your comment without automatically being labeled a Trumpite - but decided it was probably a wasted effort to even offer any disclaimers. My criticism of your response has to do with accuracy, not a defense of Pres. Trump, but because I am not on the Righteously indignant bandwagon, and agreeing with your assessment,  I am certain that it is a Trump supporter I will be, whether true or not. (to mitigate any support for the claim I am a "Trumpite," I am only addressing one point of your comment)
      
      What was the racist "Code" you say he was speaking in, (others said he was using racist "CodeWords" )?
      
      I looked at the quotes that have been directly attributed to him, and I have read the descriptions of other things he is said to have said "... according to people with direct knowledge of the conversation." (Washington Post), but not actually printed as quotes.
      
      Here is what the Big 3, (CNN, Washington Post, New York Times), each reported as direct quotes:
      
      "Why do we want all these people from 'shithole countries' coming here?"
      
      "Why do we need more Haitians? Take them out."
      Source: CNN
      
      CNN also reported this: 'A person familiar with the meeting said ... the language was salty on both sides.'
      
      As for what others say he said; The Washington Post had this: '... according to people with direct knowledge of the conversation." Pres. Trump also said we should be looking for immigrants from countries like Norway.  But this were reported as hearsay, not direct quotes.
      
      I don't offer these links and quotes to show my Google prowess, (I am sure you too have already looked at these same reports), but only to make sure we are talking about the same Pres. Trump comments.
      
      What was the code you mentioned he was speaking? Can you guess that what were the "CodeWords" others have mentioned? What was the "apparent" racial language?
      
      Maybe if you can support your code claim the rest of your comment will benefit. I would welcome further discussion concerning how it is that Conservatives are now also Reactionaries and Retrogressives.
      
      ps. I couldn't find anyone attributing your "so-called desirable" nations wording to Pres. Trump, only that he said, "like" Norway. Did you see "desirable" reported somewhere as his descriptor?
      
      GA

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         gmwilliamsposted 6 years agoin reply to this

         Mr. Anderson, I was softening the language of what Trump stated regarding Haiti, El Salvador, & some African countries being  *****hole or undesirable(my language) countries while Norway was considered to be the " desirable" country.   Trump seem to contend that non-Caucasian countries are somehow inferior while Caucasian or let's us be more exact, Nordic countries such as Norway to be vastly superior.
         
         Trump has a history of racial animus towards non-Caucasians or brown/black people.  Trump also believe in white superiority as evidenced by his lack of condemnation of the white supremacists at the Charlottesville rally who instigated incidents.   A thinking president would condemn white supremacists but not Trump.
         
         America is becoming more progressive in scope.  Conservatives, reactionaries, & retrogressives are threatened by American progress, especially along gender, class, & racial lines.  These former groups want the old America where there were strict demarcations in terms of gender, class, & race.  That is why conservatives, reactionaries, & retrogressives voted for Trump because they believed that Trump will restore the old order of America.

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            GA Andersonposted 6 years agoin reply to this

            Hello again GM, all the points you make are valid for your opinion, but none address the issue I discussed, and some extrapolate based on your perception only.
            
            As earlier, I am only addressing this "statement" issue. Not his past actions, or my opinion of him or his behaviors. Or what I think he meant to say - only what he said.
            
            It is crude to keep repeating it in polite, or mixed company, but this "statement" has erupted into such an issue that to not say it risks misinterpretation.
            
            I asked about the racist "code" you referred to, and the racial "code words" others mentioned because I just don't see them. I read the same statements, and the only possible word I can see that might be implicated was "shithole." Of course I think that is an offensive term. And I also think it was crude, insensitive, and impolitic - a statement I made in my first venture in this issue's threads. But... I also understand, (or at least think I do), the most common understanding of that word, and if so, then Haiti, as a country, by almost all global ranking standards, does qualify for that descriptor.
            
            I know, it is crass and insensitive for me to say so too. But, is the statement untrue? Can you step away from your human compassion and morality for just a second to consider the facts of the mind and not the demands of the heart?
            
            Is it possible for you to understand my perception that the claims of racism are completely unsupported by the facts of this issue, (the statement), even if they may be supported by personal perception?
            
            I probably would have stayed aware from this issue if it hadn't been for CNN.
            
            As we are discussing, I don't see the blatant racial words or aspects that have been attributed to his words, and realistically speaking, (even if insensitive), the facts, relative to the context of the remark - support the remark. Please remember I am not speaking about individual people, or even people as a group, I am speaking of a country's condition.
            
            With that explanation - back to CNN. I had them on all day, and to reuse a term, they were practically orgasmic in the glee of their righteous outrage that he said... and then they filled their screen, all day, and sometimes with as many as 9 split-screen "contributors" declaring all the awful unthinkable racist things he 'actually' said. But I had read what he "actually" said. And he didn't actually say any of the things they say he said.
            
            By the end, I felt like a voyeur. I sent Anderson Cooper a pack of wet-wipes, (well, not really, but you get the idea), and had to take a shower myself. Then... I find the same claims here in the forums. Geesh.
            
            Pres. Trump gives folks plenty of ammunition, why make up non-true claims?
            
            ps. GA would be fine. Mr. Anderson makes me wonder ;-)
            
            GA

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               IslandBitesposted 6 years agoin reply to this

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                  GA Andersonposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                  Hello IslandBites,
                  
                  I think the Vox author has a valid perspective - with the exception of the black/white insertions. And that he used the correct term: "prejudice."
                  
                  I think inserting the black/white determinations - purely by personal interpretation, because they weren't said, is wrong.  It is a weak case to even say they were implied,
                  
                  Leave that out, and I and I agree with Mr. Lopez's perspective. The word everyone should be using is "prejudice," and the implication of his statement is that the people are undesirables because of where they come from.
                  
                  However, I still don't see anything racist about that, and none of that makes his actual statement untrue. It is those points that I have been addressing all along.
                  
                  Glad you popped in with this comment. I feel a bit chastened that I didn't think of the "prejudice" explanation without being shown.
                  
                  GA

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   Wesman Todd Shawposted 6 years ago

   I can't speak for Trump, but I can speak for me. I am very very alarmed by what is happening in western Europe, and even Australia. We shouldn't be importing persons who're likely to only drain our safety nets, or potentially hijack trucks and run down as many as possible. I'm reasonably sure Trump is of the same mind as me on this, and so, I'm all about #45.

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