Trump publically uses expletive to describe Africans and Caribbeans?

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  1. Credence2 profile image80
    Credence2posted 8 months ago

    Sorry, folks, the content here is rated PG.

    http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-sh … ies-2018-1

    So, this is what he thinks of Africans and residents of the Caribbean? And all these conservatives are telling me that he does not have "racial issues"?

    Why doesn't this man put a muzzle on his mouth, does this sound Presidential to you? How does he remain so stupid as to let such comments get into the press? He has to know what the results are going to be.

    This info is all over a wide variety of news sources, so conservatives, spare me the fake news crap!!

    Let's hear your explanations. I always only have to wait a day or so before Trump "screws the pooch" again.

    1. promisem profile image96
      promisemposted 8 months agoin reply to this

      The KKK just gave him a big thumbs up.

      1. Credence2 profile image80
        Credence2posted 8 months agoin reply to this

        Of that I have no doubt, Promisem.

        1. promisem profile image96
          promisemposted 8 months agoin reply to this

          White supremicists are praising Trump's comments. From the Daily Stormer:

          "This is encouraging and refreshing, as it indicates Trump is more or less on the same page as us with regards to race and immigration."

          https://dailystormer.red/trump-says-no- … y-instead/

          I would not feel comfortable defending Trump here when racists are praising him.

          1. Randy Godwin profile image92
            Randy Godwinposted 8 months agoin reply to this

            This is only being reported on real news channels and not on Fox so far, Pro. So DT fans are not aware..

          2. Credence2 profile image80
            Credence2posted 8 months agoin reply to this

            Somebody asked me earlier, what does this say about Trump's followers, hmm....

            1. promisem profile image96
              promisemposted 8 months agoin reply to this

              It says they rationalize a lot.

              1. gmwilliams profile image84
                gmwilliamsposted 8 months agoin reply to this

                It isn't that they "rationalize" his action.  They KNOW who Trump really is but they chose to ignore it, pure & simple.  They know that Trump is a racist but nevertheless they accept it or they may refute it.

    2. wilderness profile image98
      wildernessposted 8 months agoin reply to this

      Can you point to a single thing in his statement about race?  Or are you just making it up that it's about race rather than education, skills, culture, etc.?

      Not defending his language - it's out of line - but it certainly isn't about race, either.

      1. PrettyPanther profile image84
        PrettyPantherposted 8 months agoin reply to this

        Can you imagine Trump calling a group of European nations "shithole countries"?

        I know, it's merely coincidence that his derogatory comments are about countries with predominantly dark-skinned citizens.

        He also said,  "Why do we need more Haitians? Take them out."

        He also said we need more people from Norway.

        1. wilderness profile image98
          wildernessposted 8 months agoin reply to this

          Correct, all the way down.  Some questions for you:

          Are people or Norway better educated, on the average?  Do they have more salable skills (salable in the US)?  Do they come from a culture closer or further from our own than people from Haiti?  Are their living conditions closer or further from ours than people in Haiti? Are they more or less accustomed to our standards and requirements of sanitation than Haitians?

          All in all, I think I'd rather have a random Norwegian family living next door to me than a random family from Haiti.  I think they would be more likely to support themselves, too and it has nothing to do with the color of their skin.

          Did you give up on finding anything racial about his statements?  You didn't point to anything that even might indicate racism...

          Setting aside the matter of appropriate language, there are quite a few "shithole countries" in this world, but precious few are located in Europe.  And Norway isn't one of them.

          1. PrettyPanther profile image84
            PrettyPantherposted 8 months agoin reply to this

            I'm so disgusted by your response that this is the only response I can give you right now.

            1. wilderness profile image98
              wildernessposted 8 months agoin reply to this

              Yeah, I know.  It isn't about faking up a racism charge on the President, but about encouraging immigration from educated, skilled people that might be a good fit in our culture. 

              Disgusting.

              But you still didn't indicate anything racist about Trump's remarks...

              1. Neverletitgo profile image75
                Neverletitgoposted 8 months agoin reply to this

                If these words you supported are not racist action then there is no racist in this world.

          2. dianetrotter profile image69
            dianetrotterposted 7 months agoin reply to this

            Wilderness, this sounds like you like people from Norway.  AND you don't like people from Haiti.

            1. wilderness profile image98
              wildernessposted 7 months agoin reply to this

              I don't know anyone from either country, so can have no opinions there.  But I do have an opinion, based solely on pictures and reports from people that have been there, that I would almost certainly be happier if dropped into a random spot in Norway than a random spot in Haiti.

              How about you?  Using your limited knowledge of both places, and discounting the tourist areas, would you rather live in Haiti or Norway?

              1. dianetrotter profile image69
                dianetrotterposted 7 months agoin reply to this

                The point is that we are talking about human beings.  In the right conditions, they thrive.

                Where you are from is not the sum total of who you are?

                If I were a missionary, I would go wherever I needed to go.  That is the Lord's Great Commission in Matthew 28:19.20

                Your primary focus is where they are from.  Mine is who they are and what they can become.

                1. wilderness profile image98
                  wildernessposted 7 months agoin reply to this

                  "In the right conditions, they thrive."

                  You are absolutely correct.  And if they have never been in conditions anything like what they would find in the US their chances of survival (without considerable aid) are significantly lower than in something more in line with their experience.

                  No.  That continues to be misconstrued, whether intentionally or through misunderstanding.  The focus is not where they are from; it is exactly who and what they are.  And when a lottery replaces actual examination all that's left is to extrapolate from where to make a best guess as to who and what based on the "who" and "what" other people from the same "where" are.  Not what they can become (all peoples can become almost anything if started young enough), but what they are now.  We aren't inviting the future person to enter and live with us; we're inviting what exists right now.

              2. dianetrotter profile image69
                dianetrotterposted 7 months agoin reply to this

                There are spots in Los Angeles that I don't want to be dropped off in.  However, there are spots in LA that I would LOVE to be able to live in.

                I'm in Fontana.  There are places in Fontana I don't want to live in.  I absolutely love where I live.

                1. wilderness profile image98
                  wildernessposted 7 months agoin reply to this

                  *shudder*  I've been to LA.  And have no intention of ever going again.  There is nothing in that concrete and steel anthill that interests me.  Even though most of it DID seem to have indoor plumbing. lol

                  Actually, I DID enjoy the tar pits, but you have to go through the rest of that "anthill God hath forsaken" to get there.  Not worth it.  Even San Francisco was better (it's smaller).

      2. Credence2 profile image80
        Credence2posted 8 months agoin reply to this

        "President Donald Trump reportedly questioned in a White House meeting on Thursday why the United States should accept immigrants from "shithole countries," referring to Haiti, El Salvador, and African nations. "

        Cmon, Wilderness, you are making excuses for this despicable person. But, of course you can't see it. It is pretty obvious to most of us. Who is going to agree with you on this assessment?

        "President Donald Trump reportedly questioned in a White House meeting on Thursday why the United States should accept immigrants from "shithole countries," referring to Haiti, El Salvador, and African nations. "

        So who lives in these ******** countries? Equivocating is not going to save you.... So we generalize and say that African nations are generally 's***holes? What racial group do you associate with living in Africa?

        He praises Norway in earlier comment as the example of the "kinds of people" he wants to immigrate. Do you see a pattern?

        Taking in his record of past statements cumulatively, it not hard to see that 2 + 2 does not equal 5.

        1. wilderness profile image98
          wildernessposted 8 months agoin reply to this

          "So we generalize and say that African nations are generally 's***holes"

          Are they?  On the whole, with few exceptions, are they?  (Only honest answers accepted).

          "He praises Norway in earlier comment as the example of the "kinds of people" he wants to immigrate. Do you see a pattern?"

          Sure do - it seems he would prefer educated, skilled immigrants able to support themselves and with a similar culture to those without.  This is inline with earlier comments on "merit based" immigration and with "America First" concept, with immigrants that benefit us rather immigrants that benefit themselves.  Or did you miss the ongoing patterns here?  They have been pretty well spelled out in the past...

          You can turn it into something about skin color if you wish - your prerogative - but no one that actual reads it and makes even a tiny effort to understand it is going to.

      3. dianetrotter profile image69
        dianetrotterposted 7 months agoin reply to this

        all societies have people along the spectrum of education.  If there is an African who is at the top of his class in the sciences, why shouldn't he be allowed to leave the shithole for the US.?  Maybe the problem is not race, but it is definitely "shitholes."  What makes countries shitholes?  What cultural elements are included?  Are they shithole cultures?

        1. wilderness profile image98
          wildernessposted 7 months agoin reply to this

          Start with a lack of sanitation - that would make a "shithole" pretty quickly, wouldn't it? 

          (Did you know Denver recently passed a law removing criminal penalties for defecating or urinating on their streets and sidewalks.  The stated reason was that they were convicting illegal aliens of these things and putting them in jail for it, whereupon ICE came around and deported them.  Can't have illegals being deported, so it is no longer a crime.  Pretty foreign to us, but some cultures still have good sized cities with very little sanitation in them.)

          Yes, all societies (well, almost all of them, anyway) have varying degrees of education.  The thing is that I don't take Trumps words at face value and try my best to be offended if at all possible.  Instead I'll try to figure out what he's talking about, and why. 

          In this case (the "shithole" countries) I think he's saying let's quit giving priority to immigrants that are coming from cultures that do not provide what the US can use.  That has masses of people living in middle ages conditions and with middle ages skill sets.  Instead, give priority to cultures that DO, mostly, produce people that will fit into our culture, that have skills we find useful, etc.

          1. jonnycomelately profile image83
            jonnycomelatelyposted 7 months agoin reply to this

            Please pardon my interrupting here, but there is a presumption that “American Culture” is superior?
            Well, not necessarily.  I have lived in various cultures and adjusted to most of them to the extent of not passing negative judgement on those people.  The standards of sanitation differ of course, but people get used to those standards and, by and large, live happily.  So, to label those other cultures as “shithole,” without knowing or understanding them is ignorant and insulting.  Granted, one can work to influence improvements, but rarely is a judgement truly valid; whether coming from a president or anyone else.  Better if one gets to know them in a friendly and helpful manner.
            IMHO.

            1. wilderness profile image98
              wildernessposted 7 months agoin reply to this

              Whether superior or not, it is the one we have and immigrants should be expected to fit into it and provide something of value to it.

              1. jonnycomelately profile image83
                jonnycomelatelyposted 7 months agoin reply to this

                Then it follows that Americans should adapt to other cultures around the world, for example in Africa or Haiti, and work with the wishes of the local people, rather than presuming America's culture is the answer to every one's problems and expecting them to change.
                How would you feel about someone from another country labelling your own state as a "shithole?"  No doubt you would be offended.  So, maybe your presumption of superiority needs to be addressed.   It's primarily a matter of attitude surely?

                1. wilderness profile image98
                  wildernessposted 7 months agoin reply to this

                  Why in the world would I want to work with the wishes of the local people or adapt to their culture in order for them to immigrate to the US?  If you want to immigrate to my country you will work with my culture and adapt to it.  Not expect it to be changed to what you would like more.  If you prefer your own culture, then stay with it - don't expect me to change mine just for you.

                  Don't know that anyone has called the US "a shithole"...but they've surely labeled the most giving country in the world as "heartless", "cruel", "inhumane" and other choice terms along those lines.  Not because we defecate in the streets but because they can't get their hands on what we've made for ourselves.

                  1. Randy Godwin profile image92
                    Randy Godwinposted 7 months agoin reply to this

                    I'm assuming you are speaking of our post slavery days? And after we stole the land from the Natives? Sure, lots to be really proud of indeed.

                  2. jonnycomelately profile image83
                    jonnycomelatelyposted 7 months agoin reply to this

                    I suggest, Sir, that you get rid of those rose-tinted spectacles in relation to your own country.  There are other very valid roads to success which do not depend on indoor toilet facilities; fresh clean drinking water that is flushed complacently, by the gallon, chasing after your motions; or vast and expensive sewerage systems to “keep it out-of-sight-out-of-mind.”  Your country’s history is questionable if you think it has been ultra-altruistic; and it seems that selfishness persists in some quarters.
                    But then the United States of America is not a mono-culture, is it?  So many cultures have been been encouraged to come and do the dirty, unpleasant jobs, so those who value the good life can sit back and relax under the watchful eye of their Ever-Loving and Graceous God.
                    Forgive me if absolutely nothing of this is true, but perceptions do speak to us outsiders.

                  3. Credence2 profile image80
                    Credence2posted 7 months agoin reply to this

                    While I agree with this concept in the broad principle, what is 'my' culture? What you consider 'our' culture and what you, a man from Idaho, consider THE American Culture verses how I perceive this are two different things. I welcome and accept diversity brought here from around the world, but conservatives are naturally intimidated by such concepts. The 'culture' has changed from that of, say, 60 years ago and will change even more dramatically in the next 60. So, I recommend that you hang on to your hat. What you consider 'your' culture may well be non-existent in relatively near future.

                    An adjective like sh*t hole, dehumanizes entire societies and people as other adjectives do not.

                    We are going to disagree, but I want a both a lottery system, not giving certain countries an advantage as you seem to imply, and a specific merit based program to admit Phds and Rocket Scientists. Participants who are allowed in modest numbers eligible from each and every nation on earth. We don't have to overrun the immigration system with such a program, but I stand firm in support of this idea. This, knowing that conservatives and flinty types are going to take issue with it.

          2. dianetrotter profile image69
            dianetrotterposted 7 months agoin reply to this

            There are areas in the US that do not have inside facilities.  Have you ever been to an outhouse?  I was on my way to an outhouse, wearing cutout shoes, and stepped in a pile of crap.  I was totally ticked.  I wouldn't say that every person in African craps outside.  It is an economic issue.

            Should people be barred from coming to the US because their countries don't have indoor restroom facilities.  Here in California there are people from all over.  I've never seen anyone go to the bathroom on the street.  I never see road apples on the street.  Of course in areas where there are homeless people, there is a distinct urine smell. 

            I don't think a country being a shithole is a good reason to keep talented people from coming to the US.  If they can understand quantum physics or marine biology or rocket science, surely they can learn to use indoor facilities while they enhance the US with their contributions.

            1. wilderness profile image98
              wildernessposted 7 months agoin reply to this

              Do you really think that a quantum physicist, marine biologist or rocket scientist has lived their life without indoor plumbing, never having learned to use a bathroom rather than a street gutter?  Because I surely don't - I'd lay very long odds, at any amount you could choose, that every single person in the world with that kind of educational pedigree has lived long enough with indoor plumbing to know how to use it.

              1. dianetrotter profile image69
                dianetrotterposted 7 months agoin reply to this

                List of African educators, scientists and scholars
                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_A … d_scholars

                African Inventors by Types of Industries
                https://kumatoo.com/african_inventors.html

                So not all of Africa is part of the shithole?

                1. wilderness profile image98
                  wildernessposted 7 months agoin reply to this

                  Do any of those educators, scientists, inventors or scholars go through life (then and now) without indoor plumbing?

                  No one - not I, not Trump not anyone else, as ever claimed the continent of Africa is a shithole.  Why would you exaggerate the comment from a country to a continent?  ("Why do we want all these people from 'shithole countries' coming here?"  CNN)

                  1. dianetrotter profile image69
                    dianetrotterposted 7 months agoin reply to this

                    It is my understanding that he said, "African, El Salvador and Haiti."  He didn't say Africa?

                    I do not believe people like that went through their lives with no indoor plumbing.  However, dollars to donuts that many started out that way.  Many people value education enough to go through hell to get it.  Slaves risk death to learn to read.

    3. GA Anderson profile image83
      GA Andersonposted 8 months agoin reply to this

      That made me so dizzy, I had to grab for support Cred.

      Following your link, and others that Google provided, here is the dastardly statement:

      ""Why are we having all these people from shithole countries come here?"

      Your link provided the info that the countries he was referring to were: "...Haiti, El Salvador, and African nations."

      Considering that my reading of the statement - in the context it was made, (merit-based immigration), is that he was referring to the countries relative to global standards.

      So, Haiti is commonly referred to as one of the poorest and most corrupt 3rd world nations. El Salvador also makes the list of  poorest and most corrupt 3rd world nations.

      Now, it was certainly crude and impolitic to refer to these countries like this, and probably does indicate an elitist attitude, but, what polite euphemism would you have accepted to carry the same message - contextually speaking, that these are, globally-speaking, bottom of the barrel countries by almost all standards used to globally rank nations., There is nothing racist or racial about that.

      I am listening to the CNN as I write this, and it is amazing the things that they are saying Pres. Trump said with this one statement - when the fact is he only actually said what the statement said.

      It's like the statement was a shot of adrenaline-laced coke for these commentators. Their outrage over such an overt racial statement has them almost drooling.

      You can read racism into that statement if you want, all I read into it is typical Trumpian crudity and bluntness.

      GA

      1. wilderness profile image98
        wildernessposted 8 months agoin reply to this

        +1  It was certainly "typical Trumpian crudity and bluntness" and, as often the case, inappropriate. 

        Racist it was not.

        1. Credence2 profile image80
          Credence2posted 8 months agoin reply to this

          Crudity and bluntness are ok, right, Wilderness? Trump is your boy, regardless.

          1. Live to Learn profile image78
            Live to Learnposted 8 months agoin reply to this

            LOL. It really doesn't matter how many times he says it was crude and vulgar now, does it. Are you and Pretty Panther one in the same, or equally incapable of understanding an opposing view.

            1. PrettyPanther profile image84
              PrettyPantherposted 8 months agoin reply to this

              Um, where did I say anything about not believing wilderness' assertion that Trump was crude and vulgar?  On the contrary, I acknowledged that he and GA were agreeing with Trump's point, not the manner in which he delivered it.

            2. Credence2 profile image80
              Credence2posted 8 months agoin reply to this

              Ok,' O rational one'. Why don't you share that cornucopia of wisdom as to how we are to make lemonade from a lemon?

              The rightwingers  on this thread are at least as thistle headed...

              1. Live to Learn profile image78
                Live to Learnposted 8 months agoin reply to this

                First, I'd stop jumping to the worst possible conclusion at every juncture.

      2. Credence2 profile image80
        Credence2posted 8 months agoin reply to this

        Greetings, GA, I would wonder when the PURPLE people eater would weigh in on this. See the latest comments that I made to Wilderness.

        All of Africa and its nations and its people are bottom feeders? That is what Trump implies. Who is to say that the residents of these countries evaluated on an individual basis would prove not capable of being good American citizens? Is it any wonder so many of US despise Trump so much?

        Yes, it is racist in the lines of all the other dumb things that Trump has said and done.

        1. GA Anderson profile image83
          GA Andersonposted 8 months agoin reply to this

          Hey buddy, I will be brief. I am sure with all the stretching and extrapolating, you must be tired.

          My response to PrettyPanther, addresses most of your comment also. If you missed it, here it is:

          https://hubpages.com/politics/forum/144 … ost2935954

          Considering the things I have been hearing CNN say is the "real" Trump statement, your OP was almost moderate. Now, a CNN "contributor" says "shithole" is a White "Code word." Maybe that's where promisem got the thought that the KKK was giving Pres. Trump a thumbs-up. . Geesh who knew Shithole was a racist code word?

          GA

          1. PrettyPanther profile image84
            PrettyPantherposted 8 months agoin reply to this

            My dad's racist code word was "different." My dad firmly believed he was not racist. Blacks are "different" but they should be treated just the same as "us." Since he believed they should receive equal treatment, he wasn't racist in his mind. They couldn't help it that they were different and that made things harder for them. Not their fault. That's why they would always be "a little behind" whites. They just weren't made quite the same. They think different ly and therefore act differently, but they should be treated just the same ad us.

            Nope, not racist at all. Racists are good at rationalizing their racism.

            1. GA Anderson profile image83
              GA Andersonposted 8 months agoin reply to this

              *sigh...

              Sally, (did I remember right?), we seldom reach such an impasse in our conversations, but I think this one is a line neither of us will be able to cross.

              After listening to just such explanations all day from CNN, I understand that we are not on the same plane regarding this "statement."

              To me, context is most important, and to me this "statement" was all about the discussion of merit-based immigration, and nothing about racism, or the discarding of our American values as expressed on the Statue of Liberty's poem, (as Randy is saying).

              As cold as it sounds, Wilderness' response to Randy about the reality of limits is the reality of the point. It may not be the "feel good, we're a good people" answer we all desire, but it is the truth reality demands.

              I am not finding fault with the thoughts of your heart, but I am strongly disagreeing with your assessment of Pres. Trump's "statement."

              GA

              1. PrettyPanther profile image84
                PrettyPantherposted 8 months agoin reply to this

                Okay, fine.

                Trump's statements about immigrants from Norway being preferable  to immigrants from Haiti are based on an assumption.

                as·sump·tion
                əˈsəm(p)SH(ə)n/Submit
                noun
                1.
                a thing that is accepted as true or as certain to happen, without proof.

                That is why I have persisted in asking for proof. If there is no proof that immigrants from Norway are somehow preferable to immigrants from African countries, then where did this assumption come from?

                Based on Trump's own prior history of racist remarks and behavior, well....

                1. GA Anderson profile image83
                  GA Andersonposted 8 months agoin reply to this

                  oh gawd... PrettyPanther" Now you are channeling Katheryn and throwing definitions at me.

                  But look at the evolution of our discussion. We have gone from self-righteous indignation of the "statement," to a valid discussion of whether his "assumptions" are right. I see that as progress.

                  To answer your question, I will make the "assumption" that Pres. Trump's perspective comes from the same source as mine - historical reporting on those countries' and their social and economic realities.

                  GA

                  1. PrettyPanther profile image84
                    PrettyPantherposted 8 months agoin reply to this

                    Lol, that's a big assumption.

                    Are Norwegian immigrants more desirable than Haitians? The only way we can evaluate that is by examining what they do after they arrive. What they did before they arrived has no bearing at all.

                    There is method to my madness, even if I am the only one who can see it. big_smile

            2. Credence2 profile image80
              Credence2posted 8 months agoin reply to this

              At least your father was more truthful in recognizing the reality of race relations than so many others that will turn their heads 180 degrees about in pure denial of what is clearly before them.

          2. PrettyPanther profile image84
            PrettyPantherposted 8 months agoin reply to this

            You seem to be quite bothered or amused  by the outrage displayed on television in response to Trump's statement. I watched Anderson Cooper, and some other news programs,  too. I noticed that outrage,was not limited to Democrats or liberals, whites or blacks or Latinos, younger or older. The support for Trump, on the other hand, seemed to come from a uniform demographic.....

            Think about that. Or not. big_smile

            1. GA Anderson profile image83
              GA Andersonposted 8 months agoin reply to this

              Nah, I will let it go. You have already worn out my brain for the day. ;-)

              I didn't say it was a partisan response.  I would say it is more like a mob rush to jump on the righteous indignation and outrage train  of "How dare he say that!" It doesn't matter if it is true or not, and it doesn't matter if what I am saying he said is actually what he said, it is only "How dare he say that!"

              GA

              1. PrettyPanther profile image84
                PrettyPantherposted 8 months agoin reply to this

                He did say it, so I'm confused by this post, but we can just let it go.

                1. GA Anderson profile image83
                  GA Andersonposted 8 months agoin reply to this

                  Yes, he did say it. How dare he be so insensitive.

                  So now let's get back to whether, in the context of his statement, he is right or wrong. Which would be a more valuable immigrant to our nation; a destitute Haitian, (do you believe this would not cover the majority of Haitian immigrants?),  or a most likely productive Norwegian?

                  Maybe if someone took a look at Wilderness' point about the number, and quality of Norwegian immigration applicants vs. Haitian applicants. I would wonder if the lesser number of Norwegian applicants has anything to do with their success and satisfaction within their own country, vs. a Haitian fleeing a terrible national situation?

                  Of course there will be Haitians, (or El Salvadorians, or African nation's citizens),  that turn out to be outstanding additions to our society, but will they be the exception or the rule? What about the Norwegians, will they be more likely to be the exception or the rule - in the context of merit-based immigration of course.

                  GA

                  1. PrettyPanther profile image84
                    PrettyPantherposted 8 months agoin reply to this

                    We should be able to answer those questions by looking at outcomes for immigrants from both countries.  Did Trump do that? If not, on what does he base his assumptions? Images  of "train-roof-riding immigrants with all their possessions in a bundle on their back"? Who is to say how many of them aren't plumbers, electricians, social workers, teachers? How would you possibly know?

    4. crankalicious profile image93
      crankaliciousposted 8 months agoin reply to this

      I'm actually less interested in the racist qualification of the statement then in these thoughts:

      1. If you were a genius, why would you ask a question about people from s-hole countries coming here? Isn't the answer self-evident.
      2. The White House defended the comment and apparently thinks it will play well to his base. What does that say about his base?

      1. promisem profile image96
        promisemposted 8 months agoin reply to this

        I'll add the thought that his comment was another one in a long series of comments over the years about minorities and the countries where they were born.

        Even if his comment was not meant to be racist, he added to the perception that he is one.

        Politically it's stupid because he just offended the entire continent of Africa, which includes U.S. allies and trading partners.

      2. Credence2 profile image80
        Credence2posted 8 months agoin reply to this

        I'm actually less interested in the racist qualification of the statement then in these thoughts:

        "1. If you were a genius, why would you ask a question about people from s-hole countries coming here? Isn't the answer self-evident.
        2. The White House defended the comment and apparently thinks it will play well to his base. What does that say about his base?"

        I am interested in how Trump deals with ethnic issues.

        I did mention at the outset regardless of Trump's attitude or intention, it was dumb and vulgar for him to express himself the way he did. It is no wonder that he won't merit a visit to the Queen of England.

        His base, if not directly hostile, is indifferent to the outrages put upon those considered "the other" non-whites, immigrants, etc.

    5. Readmikenow profile image96
      Readmikenowposted 8 months agoin reply to this

      Anybody ever been to these countries?  I've been to Haiti, Dominican Republic, Jamaica and a few countries in Africa.  I guarantee you will see things, smell things and experience things you never thought possible.  I could go on an on and on.  I understand why they would want to come here.  Trust me.

      1. crankalicious profile image93
        crankaliciousposted 8 months agoin reply to this

        Exactly! So if you were a genius, why would you ask that question in the first place? Of course people from third world countries want to come here. They want a better life.

        Maybe he was being rhetorical?

    6. crankalicious profile image93
      crankaliciousposted 8 months agoin reply to this

      I think we have a new name for Trump supporters: sh**holes.

      Does anyone think they will be upset by that?

      1. Credence2 profile image80
        Credence2posted 8 months agoin reply to this

        I wouldn't go so far as to apply such a title to my poor deluded right wing adversaries. I never had at lot of trouble differentiating between pepper and gnat s***.  But, alas, there are many that do.

    7. crankalicious profile image93
      crankaliciousposted 8 months agoin reply to this

      Apparently this whole thing is fake news because Trump denies making the comment.

      1. Credence2 profile image80
        Credence2posted 8 months agoin reply to this

        so, now he says that he did not say it? Just how dumb does he think everybody is?

        1. PrettyPanther profile image84
          PrettyPantherposted 8 months agoin reply to this

          He's a genius, remember, and a stable one at that.  His supporters are too, obviously.

          1. Credence2 profile image80
            Credence2posted 8 months agoin reply to this

            Yeah, 'genius' in the Wile E Coyote vein.....

            1. promisem profile image96
              promisemposted 8 months agoin reply to this

              Ahh, Credence, you bring back memories. The greatness of early Warner Brothers cartoons...

              1. Credence2 profile image80
                Credence2posted 8 months agoin reply to this

                Some of the funniest animation in the business. The history of the animators as such that one must conclude that they were all smoking something.

                I did a hub entitled "Boomer Chronicles: Will E. Coyote, Supergenius" as a salute to Warner Brothers and some of the funniest cartoons out there. Drop by when you have the time for a chuckle or two.

    8. gmwilliams profile image84
      gmwilliamsposted 8 months agoin reply to this

      To put it succinctly, Trump has demonstrated himself to be an....OVERT RACIST.   Yes, Trump is an avowed racist.  It is now time for all discerning Americans to disassociate themselves from Donald Trump.  Trump is using coded language to indicate that non-Caucasians are inferior to Caucasians.   Now, the prevaricating "president" is now denying what he said.    Anyone who respects Trump is now suspect.   Trump is damaging America's reputation on the world scene.   Trump has damaged himself, showing his TRUE colors.

      1. Credence2 profile image80
        Credence2posted 8 months agoin reply to this

        Grace, I am trying to understand the reasoning of the conservatives on this thread as to why Trump's comments were not racially offensive in nature.

        We all make mistakes, but with Trump this stuff has been happening too much for me to come to that conclusion.

        It starts with the Birther Thing, which in my mind was outrageous. Demanding transcripts and birth certificates from a sitting President, just who does he think he is? I try to explain to people that racism is not just simply about burning crosses on your lawn. It is about barbs of resentment that I am positive that he would not have subjected GW Bush to.

        About a month ago, Trump interacts with the British version of the KKK, Britain First, through his stupid tweets. He was condemned by the British Government for cozying up to a source of racial antagonism in the country, clearly outside of Government channels. What would I think if Theresa May, British PM, were playing patty cake with the KKK here?

        There have been a number of lesser events that I have not commented upon, but this current one was quite egregious. He gets a 'high five' from the white supremacists, with their attitude that anything that leads to advantages given to 'white' immigration as opposed to those 'others' is great. Well, I live here as too, and that attitude is dead in the water. So, I say that to the hood wearers as well as to Trump, that I will resist them with ever fiber of my being.

        1. wilderness profile image98
          wildernessposted 8 months agoin reply to this

          It begins to make a little more sense.  When birther comments are seen as indicative that the speaker is racist it's rather obvious that anything, anything at all, can and will be used to play the race card.  Actual racism is not necessary; just random words than will then be used to claim racist attitudes.

          1. Credence2 profile image80
            Credence2posted 8 months agoin reply to this

            So when all the other 'cards' are rationally removed from the table what is left?
            You don't get it, and I suspect that you are not able to see it.

            1. Randy Godwin profile image92
              Randy Godwinposted 8 months agoin reply to this

              They don't want to see the truth, Cred. I cannot blame them as the truth about Trump is hard to handle for those putting their trust in an arrogant, lying buffoon. Their credibility as far as making a good political choice is gone forever.

              1. Credence2 profile image80
                Credence2posted 8 months agoin reply to this

                I certainly wanted to avoid having to come to that conclusion, Randy. But, I guess that is all that remains.

              2. gmwilliams profile image84
                gmwilliamsposted 8 months agoin reply to this

                Randy, exactly.  Trumpites know the truth- the real, unvarnished truth about their Donald.  However, they went along w/the program because to them, Donald was the lesser of the two evils.  However, since the real truth came out, many Trumpites refuse to acknowledge that Trump is a racist.  They are going into the inverse logic or as the late Dr. Hawkins, psychiatrist & spiritualist more aptly put it Luciferian inference i.e. bad is good while good is bad.   There will be Trumpites who will follow Donald into HELL.   They aren't about to admit the bigotry & the overall racism of Donald.   If they admit to such, they will admit that Donald is a .....MISTAKE.

            2. wilderness profile image98
              wildernessposted 8 months agoin reply to this

              Nope, I've got it.  Completely.

              This little bit has made it completely, 100% clear.  Birther statements are NOT about racism.  Have nothing to do with racism.  Aren't even approaching racism - not even pointed the right direction.

              But they're now racist...to those that wish to demonize Trump.  Anything, anything at all, will be used to accomplish that task.  It doesn't need to be true, it doesn't need to make sense, it doesn't to have any connection at all to reality or even any honest perception of reality.  If it can be spun hard enough to be used to run down the president it will be done.

              Yes, I got it.  All of it.  You've made it crystal clear.

              1. Randy Godwin profile image92
                Randy Godwinposted 8 months agoin reply to this

                I suppose you also understand why Trump's lawyer paid a porn star to be silent right before the election year. $130,000 a month according to Fox news. I wonder what she was doing for Trump only a year after he married Melania........  yikes  Perhaps you have an answer Dan, you usually do. tongue

                1. Credence2 profile image80
                  Credence2posted 8 months agoin reply to this

                  Gee, Randy, that is strong to last long. If FOX is bringing this out, I can't imagine what the other news outlets are going to do with it..

                  That is a whole, heaping lot of hush money!!

                  1. Randy Godwin profile image92
                    Randy Godwinposted 8 months agoin reply to this

                    Actually Fox brought this out at the time it happened, Cred. It was about a month before DT announced his being a presidential candidate. I don't believe they've recently addressed this as other outlets are reporting it now.

                2. wilderness profile image98
                  wildernessposted 8 months agoin reply to this

                  Must have been an urge to racism, right?

                  1. Randy Godwin profile image92
                    Randy Godwinposted 8 months agoin reply to this

                    Not at all, Dan. She was a white porn star, of course. You know Don Boy! tongue

                3. PrettyPanther profile image84
                  PrettyPantherposted 8 months agoin reply to this

                  I remember the outrage that Hillary supposedly participated in suppressing Bill's accusers. Somehow, being the wife of an adulterer was worse than being an adulterer like Trump. It was well known before the election that he was a sexual predator. He bragged about it. On tape! 

                  Trump voters were fine with it then, so why should now be any different? Hillary was an evil bitch, but boys will be boys. roll In our house, we call it "ConLogic."

    9. crankalicious profile image93
      crankaliciousposted 8 months agoin reply to this

      Whether you think Trump is a racist or not, here is a good summary of things he's said:

      https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/201 … acist.html

      1. Credence2 profile image80
        Credence2posted 8 months agoin reply to this

        Thanks for providing the article, but it will most likely not move the Trumpeters to see what is clearly before all sane people.

  2. Shogun profile image47
    Shogunposted 8 months ago

    Sorry, POTUS, not all of us can be rich white men...

    I find this tidbit (courtesy of "Fake News" USA Today) rather interesting:

    In response to the reported "shithole countries" comments, the White House did not deny that the president used the phrase.

    "The president will only accept an immigration deal that adequately addresses the visa lottery system and chain migration -- two programs that hurt our country and allow terrorists into our country," White House spokesman Raj Shah said in a statement. "Like other nations that have merit-based immigration, President Trump is fighting for permanent solutions that make our country stronger by welcoming those who can contribute to our society, grow our economy and assimilate into our great nation."

  3. PrettyPanther profile image84
    PrettyPantherposted 8 months ago

    But, of course, no matter how many times he makes an offensive statement of this nature, his supporters will claim there is no evidence Trump could be racist.

    1. wilderness profile image98
      wildernessposted 8 months agoin reply to this

      And his detractors will claim that everything negative IS about race, whether it is or not.

      1. PrettyPanther profile image84
        PrettyPantherposted 8 months agoin reply to this

        No, we claim that quite a few negative things are about ignorance, lying, and mental instability.  It isn't all about race.  Not in the least!

  4. Randy Godwin profile image92
    Randy Godwinposted 8 months ago

    I started to begin a thread on this same topic earlier today. but I knew there a few who'd defend the Buffoon-In-Chief no matter what foul statement he spewed from his racist pie hole.  Disgusting at the very least!  yikes

    1. wilderness profile image98
      wildernessposted 8 months agoin reply to this

      So?  I'll ask you too as PP declined to answer: what part of what he said indicates racism?  Bear in mind that he is big on "America First" and on merit based immigration as you answer, and that that was the context in which the statement was delivered...

      1. Randy Godwin profile image92
        Randy Godwinposted 8 months agoin reply to this

        He prefers white people from Norway over the brown folk. You've never noticed that, Dan? He claimed an American judge wouldn't be fair because he was of "Mexican" heritage. Or did you miss that? You want a few more examples you can apologize for?

        1. wilderness profile image98
          wildernessposted 8 months agoin reply to this

          Uh...you want to put that Mexican judge comment into context?  What was being discussed, what case was it and just why would the judge be unfair?  If you're going to bring up past events, at least make the effort to look at the whole picture, not a snapshot of a single sentence.

          1. crankalicious profile image93
            crankaliciousposted 8 months agoin reply to this

            I listened to an interview with the producer of The Apprentice that suggested strongly that Trump uses the N-word often. Would that qualify as racist or is the context important?

            Wilderness, I totally see your point and pretty much agree with you that, on its surface, Trump's statement is not racist.

            That said, it does seem that he has a pattern that, when he's discussing people who are not white, he brings their heritage or color into the equation. While a one-off statement does not mean he's a racist, if one could prove a pattern, it probably does. And having said that, I'm not making an assumption about whether one can prove a pattern or not.

            I would offer this up: if you've ever used the n-word in your life to refer to an African-American, you're probably a racist of some kind (perhaps just slightly racist or perhaps a member of the KKK).

            1. Live to Learn profile image78
              Live to Learnposted 8 months agoin reply to this

              While I find that word abhorrent, I find your statement funny. Unless we can assume any black person using that term is KKK. Since a large percentage of blacks I encounter are prone to use that term.

              Use of that term does not immediately indicate racism, although I make it clear when I encounter the word that I find it offensive.

              1. crankalicious profile image93
                crankaliciousposted 8 months agoin reply to this

                I should clarify - any white person who uses the n-word to demean an African-American.

                It's well-known that use of the n-word by black people has been done to take control of the word rather than allow it to be continued to be used to demean them. That concept has been studied ad naseum.

                Similarly, if you use the word "kike" or "spic" and "slant-eye" and you are not a member of that group, you are probably racist to some degree. What's a word for white people that non-whites use? That counts too.

                Sorry I did not clarify, but did a really have to? Throwing the "black people use the word all the time" comment back at me sounds like a pretty typical rationalization for somebody who has used the word (not that you use it, but I've heard people who like to use it use that exact rationalization).

                1. Live to Learn profile image78
                  Live to Learnposted 8 months agoin reply to this

                  Interesting. Since I've heard countless commentaries by black individuals using the word in a derogatory manner, to describe those they consider undesirables.

                  Care to try again?

                  1. crankalicious profile image93
                    crankaliciousposted 8 months agoin reply to this

                    No. You're rationalizing. I'm talking about use of the word by non-blacks. White people who use the word are racist to some degree, as are people who use similar language to paint entire groups of people by race.

                    And since you're rationalizing, perhaps it's worth asking: have you ever used the n-word to refer to a black person? (it doesn't absolve you of possibly being racist, but it's at least a good start)

                  2. Credence2 profile image80
                    Credence2posted 8 months agoin reply to this

                    Yes, we use it among ourselves, but YOU can't use it as it takes on a entirely different meaning. My closest friends and relatives call me 'shivers', it has a history. But that is among trusted friends and colleagues, it is considered offensive from someone I did not know. That is a hidden truth, the same as why I greet or am greeted by blacks while on the street as total strangers, we always acknowledge each other and I wish we would do it better.

            2. wilderness profile image98
              wildernessposted 8 months agoin reply to this

              "While a one-off statement does not mean he's a racist, if one could prove a pattern, it probably does."

              Probably true, at least to some extent. But an interview from a decade ago that "suggests" poor language control doesn't show a pattern.  Not to me anyway, not enough to make a call of being racist.

          2. Randy Godwin profile image92
            Randy Godwinposted 8 months agoin reply to this

            So being a racist is okay depending on what the case is about?

            1. wilderness profile image98
              wildernessposted 8 months agoin reply to this

              LOL  Bound and determined to make it about race - to play that nasty race card and demonize someone aren't you?  No, Randy, not everything is about race no matter how hard you try to make it so.  Sometimes it's about other things - poverty, nationality, bigotry, religion or any of a thousand other things.

              1. PrettyPanther profile image84
                PrettyPantherposted 8 months agoin reply to this

                What could a judge's Mexican heritage have to do with anything?  Unless he is ruling on something that will directly affect him, in which case he would recuse himself, I don't see how it has any bearing at all, which is why bringing it up might indicate racism.  And why do you need Randy to provide the context?  It was all over the news and you could easily read about it to get the most accurate take on it.

        2. Readmikenow profile image96
          Readmikenowposted 8 months agoin reply to this

          I don't think President Trump is a racist.  I think he's a capitalist.  I don't think he is thinking about race, but money.  Now, be honest, how many countries have a successful economy and such a high standard of living as Norway?  How many Caribbean and African countries can provide for their people in the same way as Norway?  This question is not about race, but about how a country takes care of its people.  The people of Norway know how to have a successful country. Why wouldn't we want people from such a successful country to come here?  It only makes sense.

  5. PrettyPanther profile image84
    PrettyPantherposted 8 months ago

    "We don't need more people from sh!thole countries like Ireland, Poland, or France. Take them out. We need more people like those in Kenya." --Barack Obama

    Aside from the crude language, perfectly acceptable, according to wilderness and GA.

    1. wilderness profile image98
      wildernessposted 8 months agoin reply to this

      Well, rather stupid, but it IS an opinion.  And, without further information, not a racist one, either.

      1. Credence2 profile image80
        Credence2posted 8 months agoin reply to this

        "Some Republicans also raised objections. Rep. Mia Love (R-Utah), whose family is from Haiti, said in a statement that Trump’s remarks were “unkind, divisive, elitist, and fly in the face of our nation’s values. This behavior is unacceptable from the leader of our nation.”

        I guess from the standpoint of the typical rightwing GOP male, one cannot make the most obvious and likely explanation for Trump's statement. I put in this statement from Congresswoman Love to make a point that this comment and the criticism of Trump is not partisan.

        America prior to 1965 had a race based immigration policy, Trump is bringing this back again. The bias of the rightwinger is clear. Only white folks assume that you cannot come from a nation primarily inhabited by people of color and still make a positive contribution to American life. It is racist to assume that the only acceptable immigrants (hands down) are those that come from Caucasian nations. Trump can have his standards giving the appearance of being reasonable with this "America First" stuff but is racist at its core. And, I say that it is racist.

        1. wilderness profile image98
          wildernessposted 8 months agoin reply to this

          "unkind, divisive, elitist, and fly in the face of our nation’s values"

          Not Trump's words and I still don't see anything about racism.  You seem to be pretty much alone in making that claim...or can you find something in his words indicating racism?  You still haven't shown anything...merely making the claim because you don't like the man doesn't make it true.

          1. PrettyPanther profile image84
            PrettyPantherposted 8 months agoin reply to this

            Of course you don't see racism. You never do. How about showing how his statement is an accurate assessment of immigrants from Norway versus African countries? How are Norwegian immigrants more desirable?

            Are they better educated? More employed? Less criminal? What?

            Show us the facts to back up Trump's statements.

          2. crankalicious profile image93
            crankaliciousposted 8 months agoin reply to this

            Okay, I'll provide something. Racism might not be present in a single statement, but I believe people are making the accusation based on a pattern of behavior. See if you agree:

            https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/201 … acist.html

    2. GA Anderson profile image83
      GA Andersonposted 8 months agoin reply to this

      Hi there PrettyyPanther, Need some mustard for that baloney sandwich?

      If you are going to draw assumptions from what I say, then at least read what I say, and not what you want to draw from what I say.

      My response to the OP addressed  the charge of racism by the OP's author. And his spin of course.

      What I said was that, in the context of the issue - merit-based immigration; and if you will keep that context in mind, his error was in the crudeness of his descriptor, and that  I saw nothing racist in his comment.

      If he had said poorest, most economical and socially disadvantaged , and whose immigrants were least likely to  add economic and social value to our nation - without first drawing on our national resources; would you have been as outraged over such a racist statement? Global rankings, made long before Pres. Trump came along, rank those countries as the "poorest, most economical and socially disadvantaged" in the Americas. So are those euphemisms for "shithole" so far off-base in the context of merit-based immigration? Do you disagree with those countries' global rankings?

      Is it a racist statement because those countries' inhabitants are mostly dark skinned? Is it racist to say anything negative about anything that involves dark skinned people? Is it racist to say that the ghettos of most South American cities are "shitholes" to live in?

      Where is the racism in his statement PrettyPanther?

      Now back to your misreading of what I said - I don't think you will find that I said, or indicated, I found his statement acceptable:



      I think I was saying, and indicating, that I believed, (and again, remember the context), his descriptor carried the message of those nations being not a good choice for merit-based immigration goals to benefit the U.S., and that I saw nothing racist in that statement.

      Yet, from that you drew the inference that I found the remark "acceptable..."

      ps. I have had CNN on most of the day and they have been practically orgasmic in their coverage. They have crowded the screen with up to 8 or 9 "contributors" voicing their outrage over the racism in the statement and the heart of Pres. Trump. The charges have ranged from the basic "this is a racist statement," to deep evaluations that his statement said everything horribly racist that has ever been said since before the Jim Crow era. I'm gonna send Anderson Cooper a pack of wet-wipes. I don't think he has left the screen since early afternoon. And you folks talk about the sycophancy of Trump's base. Geesh!

      GA

      1. PrettyPanther profile image84
        PrettyPantherposted 8 months agoin reply to this

        What I meant by "acceptable" is the blanket statement that immigrants from Norway are more desirable than immigrants from those other  countries, which is what you and wilderness seem to believe Trump meant by his statements. Am I wrong about that?

        If you agree with that assessment, can you show it is accurate and not merely based on assumptions?. Are immigrants from Norway "better" for our country than immigrants from African countries? If so, how?

        "....and whose immigrants were least likely to  add economic and social value to our nation"

        Is this actually true?

        1. GA Anderson profile image83
          GA Andersonposted 8 months agoin reply to this

          Well, there you go then, Your explanation of what you "meant" was not what you said. I didn't address what you "meant."

          But, speaking to what you "meant" to say, re. the Norwegians; speaking for myself, no you are not wrong. I think Wilderness has spoken to your question... very accurately, and very well, so rather than just repeat his rational, you can consider his responses to be mine also.

          Can you prove that his reasoning is wrong and your humanitarian rationalizations are right?

          *Damn!  I would have made this a two-martini night if  had known this would such a lively discussion.

          GA

          1. PrettyPanther profile image84
            PrettyPantherposted 8 months agoin reply to this

            Wilderness has proven nothing about Norwegian immigrants versus African ones. He has made some assumptions but has provided no actual data about how each fares once they arrive in the U.S.

            Hey, if you want to just say your assumptions are right so there, that is your prerogative.

            I have not made any assertions either way, so I have nothing I need to prove. The only assertion I have made is that I believe Trump's statements to be racist. He didn't present compelling facts to back them up, but since you seem to agree with them, I thought you might.

            1. GA Anderson profile image83
              GA Andersonposted 8 months agoin reply to this

              Hold on now, take a breath. Hasn't this entire thread been about assumptions? Now you want someone to take a deep-dive and come up with stats and surveys to prove they are right?

              Hmm.. asking for proof, (stats and studies), isn't saying I think you are wrong? And adding parameters, " ... once they arrive in the U.S...." isn't  challenging a statement?

              As for my agreement with Wilderness' thoughts... well, they match my recollections of past reporting, and what I would see as logical assumptions. But, you're right, no hard data to back-up my agreement with his thoughts. I just think he is right. And ... I don't think that position is a repeat in my error of 78'

              GA

      2. Credence2 profile image80
        Credence2posted 8 months agoin reply to this

        Is it a racist statement because those countries' inhabitants are mostly dark skinned? Is it racist to say anything negative about anything that involves dark skinned people? Is it racist to say that the ghettos of most South American cities are "shitholes" to live in?

        It is a racist statement because by disqualifying entire country you say that no one living there deserves to be given opportunity regardless of skills or education, etc. You cover for this guy, Trump,  quite a bit, he has proven himself to be an ignorant follower of some rather tiresome stereotypes.

        You conservatives irritate me, Trump has been condemned the world over for stupidity and somehow you continue to remain the devils' advocate. Time after time, offense after offense?

        1. GA Anderson profile image83
          GA Andersonposted 8 months agoin reply to this

          "It is a racist statement because by disqualifying entire country you say that no one living there deserves to be given opportunity regardless of skills or education, etc...."

          Does that also hold if the country referred to was a predominately white-skinned country?

          GA

          1. Credence2 profile image80
            Credence2posted 8 months agoin reply to this

            'Does that also hold if the country referred to was a predominately white-skinned country?"

            Of course it does, my argument would be disingenuous if it did not. There are no "sh*thole countries or selected groups of people pre-destined for the slag heap relative to their worthiness to become America citizens. Someone should remind Trump and his entourage of that simple fact.

            1. GA Anderson profile image83
              GA Andersonposted 8 months agoin reply to this

              Time for a little clarity Cred.  You used the word racist, but by this explanation maybe you meant something like; offensive? Can a White man be racist towards another white man?

              GA

              1. Credence2 profile image80
                Credence2posted 8 months agoin reply to this

                "Time for a little clarity Cred.  You used the word racist, but by this explanation maybe you meant something like; offensive? Can a White man be racist towards another white man?"
                ----------------------------------------------
                OK, GA, I am all for clarity. No, obviously, if there is animosity between groups of whites, it is not racial as they are of the same race.

                Tales of the 'Shanty Irish", and Jews, who are for the most part in the United States, assimilated as "white".

                They are all perfectly nice people, for which there is no reason to discriminate or treat them differently. So, why get hung up on a term, when its meaning and outcome when applied is the same as "racist", or debate the exact definition from the dictionary.  People who employ such tactics are no less guilty whether we define this behavior as deriving from racism or not.

                So, looking at the outcome "offensive" and "racism" are cut from the same cloth.

                1. GA Anderson profile image83
                  GA Andersonposted 8 months agoin reply to this

                  Cred, If your justification for saying the "statement" was racist is  because it was from an offensive source, then I think we are talking about different  things. No wonder you see racism everywhere you look.

                  GA

                  1. Credence2 profile image80
                    Credence2posted 8 months agoin reply to this

                    and consistent attacks and negativity directed at nonwhite peoples and cultures is to be interpreted how?
                    -------------------------------
                    GA, I am certainly not the only one attacking Trump on this point, I see very few sources taking the approach to this issue that either you or wilderness are taking. So, you have a knowledge that is missed by the rest of the planet?

                    You all endlessly defend him by comparing him to the toddler who naturally and is expected to throw his bowl of oatmeal on the floor from the high chair.  That wont do. I say that he knows what he is doing and to say that racial animus is not part of his equation is like sticking your head in the sand.

                    Here is an article about the typical conservative responses to Trump's unfortunate comments:

                    https://www.yahoo.com/news/wing-people- … 56733.html

  6. PrettyPanther profile image84
    PrettyPantherposted 8 months ago

    Figure 3. Top Ten Countries of Origin of College-Educated Immigrants, 2014

    https://www.migrationpolicy.org/sites/default/files/resize/source_images/SPT-College2016-F3-trans-630x405.png

    https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article … ted-states

    Interesting. Norway is not even in the top ten In fact, no European country is in the top ten. Perhaps assumptions have been made, based on....what?

    I challenge you and GA to back up your premise that immigrants from African countries are less desirable than those from Norway.

    1. Credence2 profile image80
      Credence2posted 8 months agoin reply to this

      "Interesting. Norway is not even in the top ten In fact, no European country is in the top ten. Perhaps assumptions have been made, based on....what?"

      "I challenge you and GA to back up your premise that immigrants from African countries are less desirable than those from Norway."
      ----------------------------------------

      Gosh, Pretty Panther, we all better stay away from those talons.

      Ouch!!!

      1. PrettyPanther profile image84
        PrettyPantherposted 8 months agoin reply to this

        They agreed with Trump's assessment. Let them now back it up.

        1. Credence2 profile image80
          Credence2posted 8 months agoin reply to this

          Jawohl!!

    2. wilderness profile image98
      wildernessposted 8 months agoin reply to this

      I'd say your graph says it all, doesn't it?  Haiti isn't there, El Salvador isn't there, and not a single nation from the entire continent of Africa nations is there in spite of that continent being a major supplier of immigrants.

      4% of our immigration came from Africa in 2007 but isn't represented on the graph of college educated immigrants..  Haiti produced 1.7% of our immigrants in 2008, but isn't on the graph.  Yet Vietnam, producing 3% of immigrants is on it, and at 3%.  China sent 5%, and are on the graph at 8%.  India sent 5% of the immigrants and are shown on the graph at 14%.  4% of our immigrant population came from the Philippines, and low and behold they are shown at 8% of college educated immigrants.

      Did  you stop to think that Norway isn't sending college educated immigrants to the US because it isn't sending hardly any immigrants at all?  Too bad, as the percentage of Norwegians that ARE college educated is higher than the US - Norway has the highest rate of 4 year degrees in the world.

      https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article … d-states-0

      So tell me again how it is better for the United States to accept large numbers of immigrants from Africa, El Salvador and Haiti, nations that send almost no educated immigrants to us, while other nations do much better at sending educated, skilled people?

      1. Randy Godwin profile image92
        Randy Godwinposted 8 months agoin reply to this

        Can you tell me what the words on the Statue of Liberty mean, Dan?

        1. wilderness profile image98
          wildernessposted 8 months agoin reply to this

          And we should take the poverty stricken until we pass the population density of India and/or China, right?  That way we can join the 3rd world.

          I'm sorry, Randy, but those words were great when we needed warm bodies.  That is no longer the case - we can't supply reasonable work for the unskilled we have now.  There is absolutely no reason to take more in.

          1. Randy Godwin profile image92
            Randy Godwinposted 8 months agoin reply to this

            Spoken by a true Trump fan. Should we tear the statue down now that what it represents is antiquated and no longer apt, Comrade? tongue

            1. wilderness profile image98
              wildernessposted 8 months agoin reply to this

              Maybe so.  But tell me - how many third world members do you have living in tents in YOUR backyard?

      2. PrettyPanther profile image84
        PrettyPantherposted 8 months agoin reply to this

        You did not give me a single stat that shows Norwegian immigrants are more desirable than African ones.

        Edited to add: I do not consider being college educated, in and of itself, to necessarily be "more desirable." An employed taxi driver is just as worthy as an employed doctor.

        1. wilderness profile image98
          wildernessposted 8 months agoin reply to this

          ??  You got exactly the same thing as you've provided showing a Haitian is preferable to a Norwegian one.

          "An employed taxi driver is just as worthy as an employed doctor."

          Especially if they can read road signs.  Literacy rate in Haiti is about 55% and less than 2% of children pass the 5th grade exam at the end of the year.  But more desirable than a Norwegian, right?

          https://www.classbase.com/countries/Hai … ion-System

          1. PrettyPanther profile image84
            PrettyPantherposted 8 months agoin reply to this

            That is not a stat related to immigrants. As you well know (well, maybe you don't), immigrants tend to be wealthier and better educated than the general populace of the countries from which they come.

            I did not show a Haitian immigrant is more preferable than a Norwegian. I merely pointed out that Norway, nor any other European country, is in the top ten countries of origin for college educated immigrants, and the only reason I did that, is you specifically mentioned education as a desirable trait for immigrants in your defense of Trump's position.

            " it seems he would prefer educated, skilled immigrants able to support themselves and with a similar culture to those without. "

            1. GA Anderson profile image83
              GA Andersonposted 8 months agoin reply to this

              Gezz Louise...

              "As you well know (well, maybe you don't), immigrants tend to be wealthier and better educated than the general populace of the countries from which they come."

              You're still talking about the South Americas right? Haiti, El Salvador? The immigration images I have seen in recent years didn't show too many "wealthy" immigrants passing through the gates, but I did see a lot of train-roof-riding immigrants with all their possessions in a bundle on their back.

              Or, did I misunderstand your point?

              GA

              1. PrettyPanther profile image84
                PrettyPantherposted 8 months agoin reply to this

                Hmm, still no actual data to support your position. You have a lot of confidence in Trump's  assumptions about people from sh!tholes versus people from Norway.

                I'd be very nervous about that, if I were you. After all, it is what they do after they arrive here that counts most in that assessment, don't you think?

                1. GA Anderson profile image83
                  GA Andersonposted 8 months agoin reply to this

                  Nope, no data PrettyPanther. My interest isn't in proving whether Pres. Trump is right or wrong in his "statement," and "my confidence" is only in the generalities of the statement. Which I admit is a dangerous place to stake a claim. But that confidence is based on an impression derived from years of listening to reporting about those nations, (Haiti and El Salvador).

                  So, yes, I agree, in the context of merit-based immigration, with Pres. Trump's assumptions of those "shitholes." But that confidence, assumption, or agreement, doesn't carry-over to the Norwegian part. I hadn't given that any thought before this thread.

                  GA

            2. wilderness profile image98
              wildernessposted 8 months agoin reply to this

              "As you well know (well, maybe you don't), immigrants tend to be wealthier and better educated than the general populace of the countries from which they come."

              No, I don't know that.  Can you provide stats to show it to be true?  Be sure to include all refugees immigrating to the country as well as all those that sneak across the borders at night in your calculations. 

              On the face of it, the two graphs show that the statement is false, or at a minimum that it isn't enough to counter the large differences in education.  So...your statement would certainly be better for proof.

              1. PrettyPanther profile image84
                PrettyPantherposted 8 months agoin reply to this

                Illegal immigrants are not the subject of this thread. I will see what I can find, but I do have to go to work this morning so it will be later today.

                Are you giving up on backing up your assumption that Norwegian immigrants are more desirable than African ones?

                1. wilderness profile image98
                  wildernessposted 8 months agoin reply to this

                  Nope.  Seems self evident to me, starting with no need to provide housing, groceries, utilities, etc. to incoming immigrants.  To those wishing to play the race card I'm sure that such things are disregarded, as are lack of salable skills, lack of a understanding of our culture or customs and a host of other things.

                  1. PrettyPanther profile image84
                    PrettyPantherposted 8 months agoin reply to this

                    Well, I've done some checking, and I fear that answers to both of our questions, yours and mine, are not easily found.  Here is a an easy to understand fact sheet from the Economic Policy Institute, though it doesn't directly address the question of whether immigrants tend to be better educated or wealthier than the average citizens of their origin countries.  I wish I could remember where I read that, but it makes sense, given that immigrants must jump through a lot of hoops to immigrate to another country, hoops that are perhaps more easily navigated by better-educated and more financially stable people. I say perhaps, because I am making an assumption.  Assumptions can be wrong.

                    http://www.epi.org/publication/immigration-facts/

                    As far as comparing outcomes between immigrants from African countries versus Norway, or even Europe, I haven't been able to find data on that, in the amount of time I'm willing to spend.  Maybe someone who enjoys that type of endeavor will take it on.

                    Anyway, you can "think" your common sense is right, but that doesn't guarantee that it is.  This, for example, indicates that immigrants are pulling their weight in our economy.  Again, not really an answer to our more specific questions, but an indication that the oft-repeated idea that many immigrants come here and are a drain on our economy is not supported by the facts.

                    "Immigrants have an outsized role in U.S. economic output because they are disproportionately likely to be working and are concentrated among prime working ages. Indeed, despite being 13 percent of the population, immigrants comprise 16 percent of the labor force. Moreover, many immigrants are business owners. In fact, the share of immigrant workers who own small businesses is slightly higher than the comparable share among U.S.-born workers. (Immigrants comprise 18 percent of small business owners.)"

      3. Credence2 profile image80
        Credence2posted 8 months agoin reply to this

        You seem to be a 'man in the know" Wilderness. Why are we making 'blanket' determinations on the eligibility of entire nations for the immigration program. All should at least be considered on an equal basis ignoring the 'culture" stuff which is basically saying, "are you white"? If there is a fair evaluation of proposed immigrants anywhere based on applicant education and skills that means that the Norwegian does not necessarily have the advantage.

        Beside Norway has a strong socialist economy and does relatively well only because of petrodollars from resources in the vicinity, I guess we wish that we all had that advantage, yes? These people are socialists, you people dislike socialism. So what is their advantage regarding cultural assimilation outside of their being white people?

        1. GA Anderson profile image83
          GA Andersonposted 8 months agoin reply to this

          ah... Hmm... After me making such a point that this whole "issue" must be fairly viewed in the context of "merit-based" immigration...  You make a valid point Cred. Hmm... is that a bit more Purple showing there?

          GA

          1. Credence2 profile image80
            Credence2posted 8 months agoin reply to this

            GA, I don't know if I am willing to go so far to say that all of our immigration has to be merit based. I understand the argument but that is not really what we (USA) is supposed to be about. A combination of a merit based system with a lottery system applied equally about the globe is fair for me. Not everyone is going to come here with a pocket full of money, and I see many hard working Jamaicans and Haitians in this area that are hardly candidates for the welfare rolls as Trump seems to imply.

            1. gmwilliams profile image84
              gmwilliamsposted 8 months agoin reply to this

              Credence, the issue here is RACE, pure and simple.  Trump wants America to return to the period when there were quotas placed on immigration, particularly from "undesirable" countries.  Trump wants "desirable" immigrants.  Trump was speaking in so-called code but he wasn't smart enough to use covert code language.

    3. GA Anderson profile image83
      GA Andersonposted 8 months agoin reply to this

      Hello again PrettyPanther, I accepted your challenge, and offered an answer in a previous response. I am sure you have seen it by now, but here it is again:

      https://hubpages.com/politics/forum/144 … ost2935954

      But you will notice that my response to your challenge was to support my response that I did not think the "statement" that created this storm was inaccurate. Or racist. I did not address the African nations, (the logic I used to address Haiti and El Salvador would probably carry those African examples also), or the superior fit of Norwegian immigrants - although, as Wilderness has stated, I do think it likely that Norwegians  would be a more beneficial fit, (remember the context?); economically, socially, and culturally.

      GA

  7. Wesman Todd Shaw profile image96
    Wesman Todd Shawposted 8 months ago

    Two weeks ago every leftist in 49 states was referring to Alabama by the sort of terms Trump used to day to describe some seriously ugly nations. And now they act offended at Trump. LOL

    1. PrettyPanther profile image84
      PrettyPantherposted 8 months agoin reply to this

      I'm a "leftist" from Oregon, one of the 49 states. Please quote and link to where I ever referred to the state of Alabama in a derogatory manner.

      1. Wesman Todd Shaw profile image96
        Wesman Todd Shawposted 8 months agoin reply to this

        Ah, everything is about YOU. Yes, I agree, you are a leftist.

        1. PrettyPanther profile image84
          PrettyPantherposted 8 months agoin reply to this

          Naw, just highlighting the ridiculous nature of your statement that "two weeks ago every leftist in 49 states was referring to Alabama by the sort of terms Trump used to day to describe some seriously ugly nations."

    2. Randy Godwin profile image92
      Randy Godwinposted 8 months agoin reply to this

      Even if what you say is true, the "leftists" are not the leaders of the free world touting freedom and equality for all. Do you see a difference? Or are you a Fox watcher instead? tongue

      1. PrettyPanther profile image84
        PrettyPantherposted 8 months agoin reply to this

        Another profoundly stupid pronouncement from a Trump supporter. He and Jack must frequent the same "news" sources.

  8. Aime F profile image83
    Aime Fposted 8 months ago

    Wait, isn’t “formal education isn’t everything and people work their way to success without it” a common conservative talking point since it’s been shown that liberals tend to be more educated? Yet you make this a highly important factor in immigration? Seems... not quite consistent...

    1. PrettyPanther profile image84
      PrettyPantherposted 8 months agoin reply to this

      Ha! We are thinking alike, posting at the same time.

  9. Live to Learn profile image78
    Live to Learnposted 8 months ago

    You'd assume a 'stable genius' would (sooner or later) figure out the definition of insanity.

    Trump's word choice was poor but, his intent did not appear to be racist. Unless you contend that singling out one example of a first world nation implies racism.

  10. Kathleen Cochran profile image79
    Kathleen Cochranposted 8 months ago

    I've heard everything now.  Don't you mean Normay?  The most upsetting thing about those who put this man in office is their total inability to recognize the magnitude of the blunder they've made.

    1. Live to Learn profile image78
      Live to Learnposted 8 months agoin reply to this

      Could have been worse. Hillary could now be in office.

      1. Readmikenow profile image96
        Readmikenowposted 8 months agoin reply to this

        Okay, here's a link to the Washington Post story about what Trump said.  Interesting thing is nobody has been identified as a source for what Trump is alleged to have said.  Read it.  There is nothing to prove what Trump said.  This is yet another example of fake news.  Where's the source?  Who claim's Trump made these statements? 

        I like the part of the story that says "Lawmakers were taken aback by the comments, according to people familiar with their reactions." People familiar with their reaction?  Who are these people?  Why aren't they identified?

        It is nowhere to be found in the article that started the firestorm.  So, how is this NOT made up?  Show me in the article the source.

        https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics … fbdf2687a3

        1. PrettyPanther profile image84
          PrettyPantherposted 8 months agoin reply to this

          Durbin went on TV today to say Trump used the term "sh!thole" several times.  No one in that room has called Durbin a liar, although I'm sure Honest Don won't wait long.  Of course, certain Republican lawmakers who were present have been struck with the "I don't recall" bug.  Must be spending too much time with Sessions.  Courageous bunch.

          roll

          1. Readmikenow profile image96
            Readmikenowposted 8 months agoin reply to this

            Let's be honest.  Dick Durban is hardly an unbiased source.  One more example of the Democrat party working with the media to smear Trump.  Again, as usual, Journalistic ethics are dead in the United States.  You see, Dick Durban has a history of telling blatant lies.

            https://www.dailywire.com/news/25817/di … edra#exit-

            1. PrettyPanther profile image84
              PrettyPantherposted 8 months agoin reply to this

              Seriously?  Are you seriously going to believe that Trump did not say what everyone knows he said?

              Trump is the most prolific liar of them all. 

              I swear, I am still shocked at the things Trump defenders will say for their man.

              1. Readmikenow profile image96
                Readmikenowposted 8 months agoin reply to this

                "Everyone knows he said" based on what?  Your imagination? Dick Durban? The Washington Post article ? The article's quote "People familiar with their reactions?" One more bit of evidence liberals can't comprehend the concept of fact, truth and reality.  The fact is there is no proof Trump said this.  The reality is everyone does NOT know he said this AND the reality is you believe it because you want to believe it not because it's been proven to be true.

                1. Credence2 profile image80
                  Credence2posted 8 months agoin reply to this

                  Cmon Mike, cut the crap. After all this time, Trump now denies that he used the expletive? It is not just Durbin whose acknowledged that Trump said it but many on both side of the political divide, are they all lying and your Grand Poobah is telling the truth? I doubt it.

                  1. Readmikenow profile image96
                    Readmikenowposted 8 months agoin reply to this

                    Anybody other than "Dishonest Dick Durban?" (Maybe Trump will use my nickname for him).  Or the Washington "Pathetic" Post? (I'm getting good at this, I may be able to get a job with the Administration).

                2. PrettyPanther profile image84
                  PrettyPantherposted 8 months agoin reply to this

                  Okay.

                  [suppresses giggle]

            2. Randy Godwin profile image92
              Randy Godwinposted 8 months agoin reply to this

              Lindsay Graham backed up what Durbin heard, Mike. Does Fox have to tell you that before you believe it?  The others in the room have developed amnesia in their fright of Trump. Of course, anything you don't want to believe is "fake news," right? tongue

              1. Readmikenow profile image96
                Readmikenowposted 8 months agoin reply to this

                Come on Randy, you shouldn't make such claims and believe they're not going to be checked.  You are not correct.

                "Lindsey Graham: 'I said my piece' to Trump. But senator doesn't address 'shithole countries' comment"

                Here's the link.  It is NOT Fox news.  Try again.  This is turning into one more thing from the left that is making me laugh.  So desperate.

                https://www.postandcourier.com/politics … 7b81f.html

                1. Randy Godwin profile image92
                  Randy Godwinposted 8 months agoin reply to this

                  Got another site to link, Mike?  This one doesn't tell the whole story. Graham mentioned Durbin's comment and agreed the language was uncalled for. Trump was correct on one thing though, he could murder someone on the streets and you guys would find some way to excuse him. lol

                  1. Readmikenow profile image96
                    Readmikenowposted 8 months agoin reply to this

                    Your turn to provide a link Randy.  Let's see what you have.

        2. Live to Learn profile image78
          Live to Learnposted 8 months agoin reply to this

          Let's be honest. With Trump's track record of pretty bizarre and ignorant comments it is, at least, possible that he said it.

          The difference between him and his counterparts is that he doesn't usually hide it behind closed doors. Like Hillary and her hot sauce comment.

          Everyone screams racist but only if it's a candidate not in their own party.

  11. Randy Godwin profile image92
    Randy Godwinposted 8 months ago

    I simply knew the rationalizations from the DT apologists would be entertaining. Not enlightening, of course, but at the very least humorous, as well as, imaginative in the extreme.  I am not disappointed. smile

  12. gmwilliams profile image84
    gmwilliamsposted 8 months ago

    Trump is hanging himself.  In fact, he has doomed himself as president.  People are losing whatever respect they had for him as president.  Let us state that the Liberals & Progressives were right about Trump.   The Conservatives, Reactionaries, & Retrogressives are about to be in their death throes.   Smart, discerning people are beginning to view the GOP for the antiquated dinosaurs they are.   Maybe Trump will cause Americans to become powerful people, taking back their political power & electing candidates who will benefit them.

    Yes, conservatism as we know it in America is dying.   The old order is in its decay.  There is a rising of those considered to be so-called outsiders in American society: women, the socioeconomically disenfranchised, the LBGT community, Blacks, Latinos, & others who are marginalized.  They want equality & are progressing towards it.  Those in the dominant society are threatened by women, the socioeconomically disenfranchised, the LBGT community, Blacks, Latinos, etc.  The dominants want a society where there were strict demarcations along gender, socioeconomic, racial, & orientation lines.  The dominants are threatened by a full equality & that is why they are fanatical in maintaining the old social order.    The dominants are going through hellbent death throes.  They intend to hold on to their old order by any means necessary.

    1. PrettyPanther profile image84
      PrettyPantherposted 8 months agoin reply to this

      I am glad to see you weigh in on this thread. I know from past discussions you were open to the possibility that a Trump presidency would be good for the U.S.

      Reading some of the,defenses of Trump's remarks leaves me dismayed and astonished. Of course, I was dismayed and astonished that so many of my fellow Americans considered him to be of acceptable character and temperament to be president.

      1. Live to Learn profile image78
        Live to Learnposted 8 months agoin reply to this

        I don't know how many times this must be pointed out. We had the choices. Vote for an idiot. Vote for a crook. Throw away our vote worth a write in candidate.

        I'll take an idiot over a crook at every juncture. An idiot is an idiot,for all eyes to see. With a crook (of Hillary's caliber) there was no limit to the damage that could be done.

        1. PrettyPanther profile image84
          PrettyPantherposted 8 months agoin reply to this

          I wasn't aware that Hillary had ever been charged with a crime, much less convicted, despite the many investigations mounted against her.

          So, calling her a "crook" is a lie, unless you would like to clarify that it is just your opinion.

          1. promisem profile image96
            promisemposted 8 months agoin reply to this

            I believe in America a person is innocent until proven guilty. But maybe that's no longer true for some people.

            1. PrettyPanther profile image84
              PrettyPantherposted 8 months agoin reply to this

              Yes, in the strictest sense, but sometimes we do have to make judgment calls when evaluating the fitness of a candidate for office. Roy Moore is a good example. That said, you really can't legitimately say a person is a "crook" unless they have been convicted of a crime,  admitted a crime, or you have personality seen them commit a crime -- unless you say it is just your opinion,  of course.

        2. Credence2 profile image80
          Credence2posted 8 months agoin reply to this

          I don't know how many times this must be pointed out. We had the choices. Vote for an idiot. Vote for a crook. Throw away our vote worth a write in candidate.

          I'll take an idiot over a crook at every juncture. An idiot is an idiot,for all eyes to see. With a crook (of Hillary's caliber) there was no limit to the damage that could be done.
          ----------------------------------------------------
          The problem is that Trump IS a crook, a coward AND an idiot

          That Bunko stuff regarding his 'so called' university, conservatives say has not been proven. But the very fact that these issues arise and the very appearance of dishonesty is more than just a fleeting one gives me pause. Anyone who wants to be 'my leader' has to be exemplary in deportment and behavior.

          He draft dodged while being the loud mouthed chicken hawk, with no real appreciation of what is means to self sacrifice.

          He has the persona of  a ham handed clown in conducting both foreign and domestic policy with the finesse and deftness of a busted chain saw.

          So, I repeat, NOW THAT Is DANGEROUS and I have a hard time imagining Hillary Clinton doing much worse.

          1. gmwilliams profile image84
            gmwilliamsposted 8 months agoin reply to this

            Now to think about it, Hillary wouldn't be worse at all.  Trump is the most blatantly racist president of the 21st century.   If Hillary was elected president, she would be a much better character than Donald.  Donald is HANGING himself.  The world is disrespecting him.   America is now viewed as a racist bully because of Donald.

          2. Live to Learn profile image78
            Live to Learnposted 8 months agoin reply to this

            That's where we differ. I can imagine much worse from Hillary.

            Look at a Trump. Few friends on either side of the aisle. The bureaucrats despise him. The FBI full of those who hold him in contempt.

            Look at Hillary. Deep,deep ties within the government. A proven track record of an adept ability to weasel out of any scandal.

            An idiot with few political ties trumps a crook in that scenario. Hands down.

            1. Credence2 profile image80
              Credence2posted 8 months agoin reply to this

              Well said, I will have to say we are at an impasse on this point.

          3. wilderness profile image98
            wildernessposted 8 months agoin reply to this

            "The problem is that Trump IS a crook"

            Got a list of court convictions of Donald Trump Sr.?  Or just another "gives me pause" moment, where you make judgements without proof?

            1. PrettyPanther profile image84
              PrettyPantherposted 8 months agoin reply to this

              That's really rich coming from you, a guy who claims that Clinton is guilty of over 100 crimes. And if you're going to question Credence's use of the word *crook" you should also be questioning LtL's use of the term. Unless, of course, you're not applying equal standards to both people.

              1. wilderness profile image98
                wildernessposted 8 months agoin reply to this

                That changes it doesn't it?  If we can switch the topic to someone else it means it must be true, right?  It makes it OK to make unsupportable claims that are false on the face of it; because someone else made claims supported by FBI reports it's OK to make the same claim without support.

                1. PrettyPanther profile image84
                  PrettyPantherposted 8 months agoin reply to this

                  "Got a list of court convictions of Donald Trump Sr.? "

                  If this is your standard for Don, then it should be your  standard for Hillary. If not, just admit your bias.

                  Personally, I have avoided using the term "crook" for Honest Don as there are enough undisputed terms to use, like liar, sexual predator, adulterer, and erratic blowhard.

                  1. wilderness profile image98
                    wildernessposted 8 months agoin reply to this

                    Good for you - that's the way to go.  Although some of those terms go beyond a mere opinion into factual statements that I doubt you can support (adulterer, for instance).

                    But, of course, that's not what was said.  [i]That[/] post was a statement, purportedly factual, that Trump is a criminal - something for which there is zero evidence, let alone a conviction.

              2. Live to Learn profile image78
                Live to Learnposted 8 months agoin reply to this

                There's the crux of the problem. We all like to use the term, but some complain when it's used against someone they like.

                Trump does appear to be a crook. So does Hillary. The difference is Trump may have been one in the private sector. Hillary was one in the public sector.  Hillary,having proven herself to be a crook in the public sector, wasn't fit to hold office. Trump needs to be watched.

                1. Randy Godwin profile image92
                  Randy Godwinposted 8 months agoin reply to this

                  Mueller is watching Trump, have no fear.

                  1. Live to Learn profile image78
                    Live to Learnposted 8 months agoin reply to this

                    Good. If the guy has done something wrong, I'm all for punishment.

                2. PrettyPanther profile image84
                  PrettyPantherposted 8 months agoin reply to this

                  It won't be long.

                  1. Live to Learn profile image78
                    Live to Learnposted 8 months agoin reply to this

                    That depends. If we hold him to the same standard Hillary was,at every turn, not much will happen.

                3. wilderness profile image98
                  wildernessposted 8 months agoin reply to this

                  "Trump does appear to be a crook."
                  "The problem is that Trump IS a crook..."

                  The difference in the two statements is readily apparent.  Given that the first is a matter of opinion, with some evidence to back it, your conclusion is reasonable (Watch Trump, but Hillary is unfit).  The second, on the other hand, cannot be declared to have any truth at all with the evidence available.

                  1. PrettyPanther profile image84
                    PrettyPantherposted 8 months agoin reply to this

                    There is probably more evidence that Trump is a crook, if one would care to look, but the fact remains that neither has been convicted of a crime.

            2. Credence2 profile image80
              Credence2posted 8 months agoin reply to this

              "The problem is that Trump IS a crook"

              Got a list of court convictions of Donald Trump Sr.?  Or just another "gives me pause" moment, where you make judgements without proof?
              --------------------------
              Wilderness,

              I was in error, perhaps I should not say that he is a crook, or is guilty of unethical business practices. But I do say that the very fact that this issue comes up does show that is behavior is far from exemplary. Regardless of this, there are other things that pi$$ me off regarding this fellow. See below.

              https://www.politico.com/story/2015/07/ … red-120317

              https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics … f56c15f11c

              You conservatives are ALWAYS talking about "patriotism" and respect for the country. Yet, you get bent out of shape when a few football players kneel during the national anthem, but allow Trump to attack at the very heart of what it means to serve and sacrifice. Is that not the ultimate expression of patriotism? As a veteran, I certainly do not appreciate it.

              Rightwingers disgust me, you would find a way to support Trump even if he had shot the Pope.

              1. wilderness profile image98
                wildernessposted 8 months agoin reply to this

                The idea that we are not the world's nanny - that merit based immigration is needed - disgusts you.  Fair enough - that the TDS crowd will choose words rather than actions to scream about disgusts me, and doubly so when they use unsupported claims to decide that wrong doing happened and we should all be appalled over events that may or may not have taken place.  "But I do say that the very fact that this issue comes up does show that is behavior is far from exemplary." shows that claims were made, not that anything happened...except that the left wingers accepted it all as truth and began screaming again that Trump is the devil.

                1. Credence2 profile image80
                  Credence2posted 8 months agoin reply to this

                  "The idea that we are not the world's nanny - that merit based immigration is needed - disgusts you.  Fair enough - that the TDS crowd will choose words rather than actions to scream about disgusts me, and doubly so when they use unsupported claims to decide that wrong doing happened and we should all be appalled over events that may or may not have taken place.  "But I do say that the very fact that this issue comes up does show that is behavior is far from exemplary." shows that claims were made, not that anything happened...except that the left wingers accepted it all as truth and began screaming again that Trump is the devil."
                  ---------------------------------------------------
                  Dodge and parry, alright...

                  So, lets talk about that. You dodged the question I asked you when you said that American immigration policy according to Trump should focus on letting in those from nations most similar in culture to ours. Which non-white country qualifies under that standard in your eyes?

                  1. wilderness profile image98
                    wildernessposted 8 months agoin reply to this

                    Sorry Credence, but I'm not nearly interested in race as you are.  I don't care what race immigrants are, and I don't have a "my people" for them to fit into.  Just Americans...all Americans. 

                    You go ahead and insist that "your people" are immigrating - you can count each race and make all is even and "fair".  I'll congratulate them when they earn their citizenship, and it won't matter whether they are black, white, yellow or brown.  Heck, they can be bright pink with blue polka dots for all I care as long as they want to be here, to assimilate and to be an American, willing and able to add something to this great country.  I'll even help a limited number of refugees become Americans and I still don't care where they come from.

                    And if we have to turn away immigrants with needed and useful skills because they are the wrong race and the racists of our country won't let them in, well, I guess we'll just have to do without them.   

                    It's a real shame, though, to think that there are such people; that race should determine whether one is welcome in our country.  Don't you think?

              2. gmwilliams profile image84
                gmwilliamsposted 8 months agoin reply to this

                Trump is beyond despicable.  His minions including Kirstjen Nielson,  United States Secretary of Homeland Security, "claims" that she "can't recall" Trump calling Haiti & other African countries ******holes.   Yes, Ms. Nielsen is a pathological liar.   

                I am listening to the senate investigations regarding the questioning of  Ms. Nielson at the Senate Judiciary Committee meeting.  She was totally nonplussed at the incident.  She was actually smiling & nonchalant.   B********h!

                1. PrettyPanther profile image84
                  PrettyPantherposted 8 months agoin reply to this

                  The two GOP senators and Secretary Nielsen should be featured in "Profiles in Cowardice."

                2. Credence2 profile image80
                  Credence2posted 8 months agoin reply to this

                  Trump is beyond despicable.  His minions including Kirstjen Nielson,  United States Secretary of Homeland Security, "claims" that she "can't recall" Trump calling Haiti & other African countries ******holes.   Yes, Ms. Nielsen is a pathological liar.   

                  I am listening to the senate investigations regarding the questioning of  Ms. Nielson at the Senate Judiciary Committee meeting.  She was totally nonplussed at the incident.  She was actually smiling & nonchalant.   B********h!
                  -------------------------
                  Grace, his leadership style is one of intimidation, just like any tin-horn dictator. Ms. Neilson does not want to face the ire of Trump, even if means she has to lie. That is not someone who I would want to work for and it probably explains the greater than average turnover of staff in his administration to date.
                  The people who do not stand up for the correct course are no better than Trump

                  1. gmwilliams profile image84
                    gmwilliamsposted 8 months agoin reply to this

                    EXACTLY!

                  2. Live to Learn profile image78
                    Live to Learnposted 8 months agoin reply to this

                    Heaven forbid that,even if said, someone can mentally wander off in a meeting and not catch every word spoken. Let's call them all bitc#es and basta##s if they can't give us something to grasp on to. Shame on them if they don't retain perfect attention.

      2. gmwilliams profile image84
        gmwilliamsposted 8 months agoin reply to this

        What he said was UNACCEPTABLE, even EGREGIOUS.    What he has stated indicates his racial character which is abominable.   People will accept what they want to accept.  They know that Trump said these things but they elect to brush such things under the table.   At this juncture, they claim that Trump "never said it" or "what he said wasn't really racist."   This is psychotic denial to say the least.

        However, the world is watching the United States.  The world is wondering that America has sunk to a new low.  Isn't it ironic that Trump would utter such near Martin Luther King's holiday.  Also, it is furthermore ironic that Trump has cut off funds to the United Nations.  The United Nations has condemned Trump's comments.  Trump can no longer LIE his way out of egregious behavior.  He is MORE THAN GUILTY as charged.  It is time for those who are behind Trump(won't say president anymore as he doesn't deserve the title) to WAKE UP & see EVIL as it IS.

  13. IslandBites profile image86
    IslandBitesposted 8 months ago

    Be Careful In Africa!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2kJ3cEWklE
    (Nov. 27, 2017)

    1. Anjili profile image82
      Anjiliposted 8 months agoin reply to this

      Africa is simply exciting.
      On the other hand, newspapers have to make their sales.
      Africa is the next emerging business frontier

      1. jonnycomelately profile image83
        jonnycomelatelyposted 8 months agoin reply to this

        Anjili, Africa has been an "emerging business frontier" for years.  It's been regarded as an open door to get rich, provided the "natives" can be easily exploited, hood-winked into signing their freedom and self respect away.  America has not let up on the effort for 250 years.  It seems your own aspirations would be in the realm of opportunism.  Right?

        1. gmwilliams profile image84
          gmwilliamsposted 8 months agoin reply to this

          +1

  14. IslandBites profile image86
    IslandBitesposted 8 months ago

    "It's the people who don't recognize the racism within themselves that can be the most damaging because they don't see it."

    1. gmwilliams profile image84
      gmwilliamsposted 8 months agoin reply to this

      It is damaging.  People who refuse to admit that they are racists are evil & poisonous.

    2. Anjili profile image82
      Anjiliposted 8 months agoin reply to this

      No wonder Africa has shifted trade to China

  15. GA Anderson profile image83
    GA Andersonposted 8 months ago

    To add a little more context - relative to those folks commenting on individual consideration versus nationality consideration.

    The original context of the "statement" was all about nations, as in legislated immigration-slot allotments for each country.

    Wouldn't that logically extrapolate to a choice to offer a slot, (one of a limited number), to a statistically-likely poor choice, to be one of charity, and not purpose, (merit-based)?

    Wouldn't that also mean two different immigration issues are being co-mingled in this discussion; Humanitarian immigration, (ie. Asylum seekers), vs. Goal immigration, (merit-based additions)?

    Obviously I think the answer to both is yes, which means that declarations of individual possibilities being both unknowable, and un-provable - before the fact, aren't really a point of the original issue.

    If you are looking for merit, and you have a limited number of "looks" wouldn't you want to look in the most statistically-likely places?

    ps. it is progress to see the diminishing of the more strident racist and racial declarations.

    GA

 
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