Can we just cut to the chase?

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jackclee lmposted 6 years ago
This forum is about you, and what you belief to be true about President Trump.
Please state top 3 things good or bad you believe about Trump. Not what he is or is not, but what you believe to be true about him and his Administration.
This will make you think hard and fast about the current state of our country and our politics.
I look forward to your unbridled truths...
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  Randy Godwinposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  He is a proven liar.
  
  He is a racist.
  
  He is a sexual predator.
  
  Want more, Jack?
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  jackclee lmposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  Really? That is what you believe and I hold you to it.
  Let see who is the unhinged...
  Thanks for your input.
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  gmwilliamsposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  +1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
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  gmwilliamsposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  The NEGATIVES are far outweighing the so-called POSITIVE. Yes, the positive thing was removing the mandate regarding healthcare & THAT'S IT. There are FAR MORE negatives w/Trump which are proven each day & every time he speaks.
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  jackclee lmposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  That’s it...
  What about the stock market? The jobs coming back?
  The tax cuts?
  The bonuses business are giving to their employees?
  The wiping of ISIS?
  I can go on but you are deceived by your trusted NPR and CNN and the NYT...
  
  It is OK, while your side is distracted by all these minutia, the American people are reaping the benfits which includes you and your family by the way.
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  wildernessposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  He has a far better concept of where the nation needs to be going that we've seen in quite a while.
  
  He desperately needs a gag on his mouth.
  
  He seems, so far, to have a better idea of the duties, responsibilities, and limitations of the office. Specifically, he understands that he is required to secure our borders and that he is to enforce the laws congress enacts - all of them, without regard to his personal feelings of whether they are good laws or bad.
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  jackclee lmposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  Here is my list of top three -
  
  Trump is a patriot and America first guy.
  
  Trump is not a politician and speaks his mind perhaps too frank and crude at times.
  
  Trump is a decisive leader who makes the tough decisions and stand by them. He is bold at times as seem with the support of Israel and Jerusalem as capitol.
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  wildernessposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  Is it possible that our middle observations (big mouth) is actually a good thing? If it weren't so, what would the TDS crowd have to cry and shout about? That employment is up or the economy booming?
  
  We might have 50 million cases of clinical insanity when they can't find something to whine about - the pressure to scream imprecations would be enormous but they wouldn't have anything to scream about!
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  IslandBitesposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  LOL
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  Readmikenowposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  I like President Trump.
  
  1. He makes liberals look more stupid than they normally look. They are so clueless they have no idea how badly their behavior hurts them. Most can't comprehend that in order to win in the future they'll have to get his supporters like me to abandon him. He's only made me support him more.
  
  2. Liberals have tried every low down, dirty, lying trick in their book and Trump continues to succeed. It's because he's a leader. He has shown them to be mentally weak and emotionally needy people.
  
  3. He says what he thinks and doesn't care what people say. He's shown the mainstream media for the lying, pathetic excuses for journalists they have become.
  
  Also, he's a good business man and had really gotten America's economy going great. He's dedicated to protecting our boarders and more. I also enjoy him making the liberals go crazier than they already are.
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  Randy Godwinposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  Aren't these Fox Talking Points from last week?
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  Readmikenowposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  That's all you have Randy? That's it? You probably don't realize it, but you're proving my point about liberals.
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  Randy Godwinposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  HA! You've long proven my point about rightwingers, Mike. You need no help from me in doing so either.
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  Marisa Wrightposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  He's a good businessman? Who says? He started his working life with millions of dollars from his father and lost a large chunk of that money in failed business ventures.
  
  My family and friends have been on the receiving end of one of his business ventures and he achieved his goals using bribery, strong-arm tactics and blatant flouting of the law. If America regards that as "being a good business man" then it's a terrible reflection on American morality and values.
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  wildernessposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  It was supposedly one million (not an unspecified "millions") and he has turned it into something around 4,500,000,000. An increase of 4,500 times what was started with, and he did while living a lavish lifestyle off the earnings.
  
  I've had $1,000 in free cash just sitting, but never managed to turn it into $4,500,000...
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  Aime Fposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  But a million dollars opens a lot more doors than $1,000. You can compare yourself to him more accurately once you inherent a million dollars and a name that is arguably worth the same in money if not more.
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  wildernessposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  Somehow I don't think I could turn that into 4½ Billion, either. Don't think I've heard of any lottery winners doing it, for that matter.
  
  In fact, there are precious few people that have done it.
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  Randy Godwinposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  Gee Dan, how do you know he's worth 4 billion as none of us have seen his taxes yet. My understanding is he owes Deutchebank tens of millions, and coincidentally, this bank is suspected of being used to launder Russian money. I'm sure it's merely a coincidence though.
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  Aime Fposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  Again, difference between a random lottery winner and someone who has a powerful brand name to give them a huge advantage.
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  Marisa Wrightposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  Trump claimed it was a loan of $1 million. Of course, here we get into the problem of everyone being suspicious of the media, but here are a few reports which tell a different story
  
  https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics … 2941edbf5e
  
  https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fac … 61e1f13bdb
  
  https://www.investopedia.com/updates/donald-trump-rich/
  
  http://www.politifact.com/florida/artic … 0-million/
  
  https://www.alternet.org/story/156234/e … _the_trick
  
  Bear in mind that his father was one of the wealthiest men in America and even if he hadn't set up trusts and given his kids money when he was alive, he left a fortune to be split between his children when he died. Does anyone really believe he left the Donald out of the will?
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  Anum Z Zaidiposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  Whatever he is good or bad.. but he can't be like Obama..
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  jackclee lmposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  And that was the whole point of the election. The people had enough of Obama and did not want a third term in Hillary.
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PrettyPantherposted 6 years ago
He is a proven liar.

He is mentally and emotionally unfit to be president.

He is damaging and abdicating the U.S. position as a world leader.

It was hard to choose only three.
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  jackclee lmposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  So, can you name three things that you personally are harmed or lost as a result of Trump?
  Can you think of three things that you personally benefited?
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  PrettyPantherposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  I don't judge a president by what he does for me personally, but by what he does for our country as a whole. His ignorance and inability to participate on the world stage as an equal with other world leaders is damaging our standing in the world. I can only hope he resigns or is removed before we lose all credibility
  
  China is moving in where we are faltering.
  
  I know you have boasted about your stock market returns. Mine are fine but they were also fine before DT so I have no reason to believe he has anything to do with that.
  
  I have not gained anything since Trump became president, except a dread of reading the day's news. I have lost pride in my country's president and trust in the judgment of many of my fellow Americans.
  
  Trump is divisive, lazy, incurious and a liar of proportions never before seen in a president. The day he resigns or is removed from office is the day my husband and I will do a happy dance.
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  jackclee lmposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  You remind me back in the 1980s when Reagan was president. There was one person who kept a champaign bottle in his refrigerator and bragged that he will open it and celebrate when Reagan dies.
  
  I pose the question because no one has answered it satisfactorily. No one has lost any personal rights in the past year. No one has been harmed as far as I see.
  
  With regard to gains, here are a few for me.
  1. My portfolio has increased by 20% in the past year.
  2. I am expecting a small tax cut this next year due to the doubling of the standard deduction.
  I am retired and my house is paid for. I do live in a high state property area.
  3. The best news is some of my extended family members who had been struggling without a job have finally found good jobs...
  4. As a supporter of Israel, I am glad a President has finally done what he said he would do and recognized Jerusalem as the capitol of Israel.
  5. I am also glad ISIS is being decimated.
  6. Finally, the immigration issue is top on my list that needs to be addressed. Trump is trying and I hope he succeeds in getting the wall built.
  All in all, it is a pretty good year for Conservatives.
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  Randy Godwinposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  The only thing you listed due to Trump is your portfolio increased and you'll get a better tax deduction, Jack. I'm sure you didn't just pay your house off when Trump came into office, and jobs have increased by things happening under the Obama terms as well. But you can dream, I suppose.
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  jackclee lmposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  I guess you missed my point. I have a few family members that were laid off in the Obama years. After collecting unemployment for 6 months, they were not counted as unemployed. Only with the elction of Trump, the economy finally turned on all cylinders and they found jobs. This is just one personal data point. I can’t vouch for what others are feeling, but in this case Trump made the difference.
  Companies are hiring again...
  As for stock gains, yes they were going up in past years. However, in 2016 my return was 10%.In 2017, it doubled to 20%. Again, I think it was Trump that made the difference.
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  Randy Godwinposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  I guess you missed MY point, Jack. Your family members were more than likely laid off due to the Dubya Bush years in office. I assume you voted for George since you voted for the McCain/Palin ticket. Did you blame Dubya for the recession he left Obama to clean up? Do you still think Palin was worthy of being VP? Do you ever wonder if you're really capable of making good political choices? Seriously....
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  jackclee lmposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  My choices were fine though not perfect. How about yours? Strictly democrats all the way...
  You are so blind about your party and the leaders...
  We disagree on policy but even I voted for some democrats.
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  Marisa Wrightposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  And I guessed you missed MY post providing evidence of the kind of person Trump is in his business dealings.
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  jackclee lmposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  I guess we all know Trump is no saint. What does that have to do with his current position. Are you saying he is using his position as President for personal gains?
  Isn’t that what all politicians do? Why are most politicians in Congress millionaires?
  What about the Clintons? Did you complaint about the Clinton Foundation being used as their personal slush fund? And the Uranium one deal?
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  Marisa Wrightposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  In my experience in life, if someone is dishonest in business and treats people with contempt in ONE area of his life, then he's very likely to do the same in ALL areas of his life. Don't you find that?
  
  It's a very sad world if we're starting to say things like, "I know he's a crook but isn't everybody?" What does that say about America?
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  Aime Fposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  Plus wasn’t the apparent upside of Trump the fact that he wasn’t a “typical” politician? It seems a bit strange to be dismissing certain behaviours because all politicians do them when the hope was that he wouldn’t be like all politicians. Or did everyone forget that whole “drain the swamp” thing because the swamp is suddenly more comfortable?
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  jackclee lmposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  It says we are finally getting smart about dealing with foreign entities. We were naive thinking the whole world works on good will...and they don’t. Thst is why we had such lousy trade deals and even the Iran nuclear deal was a joke. We gave them billions and got very little in return. Time and again America was
  With Trump, we are finally getting some respect and playing hard ball with our afversaries instead laying down...like the previous admin.
  Time will tell if we come out ahead... if we do well, guess what, the world is a safer place. Just as ISIS is being dcimated as we speak.
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  Marisa Wrightposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  I'm talking about crooks. Donald Trump's behaviour in business dealings tells me that he's someone who's prepared to flout the law, lie and cheat - anything is OK, provided it makes him money.
  
  I haven't heard you say it, but I have heard other Trump supporters say that's OK, it's being a good businessman. I don't think that's OK - I think it shows a fundamental lack of integrity.
  
  In Australia we have our fair share of crooked politicians and businessmen - but when they're found out, they're drummed out of office. There is no question in anyone's mind that they did wrong. I am worried about a society that finds dishonesty and underhanded dealings acceptable. Aren't you?
  
  Also, I've heard people say that Trump may be crooked, but he's the least crooked of those available. Don't you think it's sad that we've got to that point? What does it say about America that it's impossible to find an honest man (or woman) to elect to the White House?
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  jackclee lmposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  It is sad. I supported Ben Carson and look what they did to him in the Primaries...
  It has come to a point where no good man or women will put themselves or their family through this ordeal.
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  wildernessposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  "In Australia we have our fair share of crooked politicians and businessmen - but when they're found out, they're drummed out of office."
  
  Can you teach us that trick? In the US we re-elect them for another term, even if it means we have to wait for the jail sentence to end.
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  jackclee lmposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  I started this forum to highlight the fact that TDS has gone way over board.
  It reminded me of the Snoopy cartoon of years back. Remember how Lucy would place the ball and Charlie Brown would attempt to kick it? At the last minute, she would pull the ball and Charlie falls flat on his face... well that is exactly what is happening now between Trump and the media. Trump is Lucy and sets them up while the media goes in for the kill and Trump pulls back and the media is left with egg on their faces...
  Why don’t they learn by now? It has happened so many times...
  I guess they are like Charlie Brown.
  
  I have said this many times and it needs to be repeated here.
  Trump is a master at manipulations. He would use a few choice terms to atract the attention, suck up the oxygen, deflect what he is really doing and distract.
  The media and the opposition goes nuts trying to pin him down thinking they finally got him...
  Yet he just brushes it off and move on to the next thing.
  
  Here is my advice.
  Don’t react to the tweets...
  Just focus on what he does in office, his policies and his legislation...
  Those are valid targets. Leave out the personal stuff and the distractions and the petty items.
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  wildernessposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  LOL If only they would - ignore the distractions and concentrate on actions. But then what could they use to demonize him? An improved economy or a soaring stock market?
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  Live to Learnposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  And it is our duty, as a nation, to ensure you and your husband get a happy dance.
  
  Trump is not dividing us as a nation. We've been divided. It's simply their candidate didn't win and they are going to complain about everything they can, warranted or otherwise. It's natural. We dealt with this during the Obama years.
  
  Since taking office, our stock market is up, employment is up, and I've noticed many abroad praise Trump. South Korea's President singled Trump out as the reason North Korea entered talks with them, Iran's resistance movement praised Trump for his stand, a common man in the street praised Trump for our actions in Syria (to the consternation of the CNN interviewer)
  
  So, although the guy has terminal foot in mouth disease, I'm still willing to give the guy the benefit of the doubt.
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  PrettyPantherposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  I didn't say Trump is the source of our division, but he is a divisive person. His campaign, and now his presidency is based on insults, chaos, and creating enemies out of thin air.
  
  One or two leaders praising Trump is not evidence of success on the world stage.
  
  The stock market and employment were up during the Obama years, too. Of course, right up until election day Trump claimed the economy was a disaster and the good economic indicators were fake. By February, he was taking credit for the economy. He thinks we're all idiots and wouldn't notice. Apparently, that is the case for a significant segment of our citizens.
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  wildernessposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  You can please all of the people some of the time, you can please some of the people all of the time, but you can never please all the people all the time.
  
  More simply put, Trump can never, ever please everyone all the time. Does that make him divisive? I suppose, in a technical sense, but it is also a fact of nature that he cannot be blamed for. People demand different things from their country and leaders, and given that it would seem that the people, not the president, are the divisive force. That liberals, unaccepting of the conservative viewpoint, are dividing the country.
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  PrettyPantherposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  I never referred to Dubya as divisive, even though I vehemently disagreed with many of his political positions. He was not divisive. Trump most definitely is divisive.
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  Live to Learnposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  I wouldn't stoop to calling those I disagree with idiots. But, that sentiment is indicative of our problems. No respect coupled with a me, me, me mentality.
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  jackclee lmposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  I agree. It seems the people were smarter than the media and Washington pollsters and elites this last election cycle. How did they miss the anger and unrest in the electorate? How did they miss the anemic economic recovery? How did they miss the racial strife? How did they miss the lost jobs, the increased illegals taking over some cities...and the abuses at the high level of government including the NSA, the IRS, the DOJ and EPA and even the FBI...?
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  PrettyPantherposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  I'm sorry, hut if you believe the economy was bad and the economic numbers were fake right up until election day, and you now tout those same indicators as evidence of a booming economy, then either you're a willing partiipant in the lies or not very bright.
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  jackclee lmposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  What you fail to understand is the economy and economic indicators are forward looking and not retrovert. The fact that with all the “good” that you claim Obama did in his 8 years, did not produce a win for his protege says volume about how the economy actually was...
  
  The boom on wall street is real and it is forward looking due to the Trump effect that I wrote about.
  Obama had all the opportinity to do the same in 2010 but instead chose to attack big business, tax all of us and increased dependency with food stamps and welfare.
  It is a total opposite of big government vs. personal responsibility. Goverment spending vs. private investments, America lead from behind vs. America first. Guess we know now the right path, and the left is apoplectic with TDS.
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  PrettyPantherposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  Right. You voted for a guy who spent over five years falsely claiming Obama was not a U.S. citizen and you think we're the deranged ones.
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  jackclee lmposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  Dow just crossed the 26,000 level...
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  jackclee lmposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  The TDS crowd will miss out on this boom because of their personal hatred of this guy at the expense of their own well being. The classic definition of Trump Derangement Syndrome.
  
  Let me ask you this last question?
  What was your opinion of Trump before he declared he was running for President?
  Remember, he was not an unknown. He was in the news and on TV and attended all the high profile events, and donated to high profile Democrats including Hillary Clinton...
  He was a self promoter with his real estate, his book, his Apprentice show, and his casinos...and golf clubs...he was the darling of the in crowd.
  Did you think he was a racist then?
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  PrettyPantherposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  I thought he was a womanizing, blowhard entertainer. I didn't pay enough attention to him to have an opinion on whether or not he was racist.
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  Live to Learnposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  LOL. I lived through the Obama years. Don't get me wrong. He inherited a mess. But, we would disagree on the reasons for the mess or the success of his attempts to correct the problem. These things don't happen overnight and Bush was not primarily responsible. Although he played his part.
  
  I liked Obama, personally. But he was one to say what he felt was, not what is. And he had the unfortunate belief that he could reshape America without bothering to check the pulse of the populace in the process. The American dream must be inclusive of the needs of all. This me,me, me and to hell with you,you,you gained significant momentum during Obama years.
  
  Things may be looking up. We have a ways to go,for sure. But, it would be difficult for a reasonable person to argue that they are not looking up. Did Trump accomplish this by his actions? Partly.
  
  But, honestly. I've never felt a conversation with you could be reasonable. Your views appear set in stone, intractable, and lack the semblance of being able to parse alternate information and views.
  
  I'll leave you to your dreams of future happy dances.
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  PrettyPantherposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  I really don't care if you think my views are intractable, as I view your judgment to be pretty bad. I've been participating in these forums for seven years and I have changed my views on quite a few things.
  
  If I were all about me, me, me I'd be like Jack and happy that my personal wealth is increasing and my taxes went down, albeit temporarily. I wouldn't care that Trump reversed DACA and children who have lived here all their lives will be deported if Congress can't agree on a solution. If I were all about me, me, me I wouldn't care that Trump mocked a disabled reporter because it doesn't affect me personally. I wouldn't care that Trump thinks African nations ate sh!tholes because, hey, I'm financially better off, screw everybody else. If I were all about me, me, me I wouldn't care if Trump lies practically every time he opens his mouth, because my personal wealth has increased and so I don't give a damn about the lies.
  
  But, hey, your definition of selfishness must be different from mine.
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  jackclee lmposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  Well that shows how little you know about conservatives and how you have been brain washed by the media into demonizing conservatives.
  If you take the time to understand me, I have published over 400 articles here on HubPages and many are on politics and religion and lifestyle and my own autobiography.
  As a conservative, I don’t see color of skin. I want everyone to succeed.
  The policies I support are consistent.
  I also explain my positions on immigration which you can read. You might not agree with me but make sure you understand my position before condemning me.
  I actually support all immigrants who are legal of which I am one.
  I also donate extensively to help the third world.
  You can have compassion for the poor and for the disadvantaged and the down trodden...and yet not open your doors wide open to let anyone in.
  That is just an insane immigration policy and we have been doing this for decades under both GOP and Democratic administrations.
  
  A rising tide raises all boats.
  This latest boom helps all Americans, white, black, yellow brown and red... in other words all Americans and we have Trump to thank for it.
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  PrettyPantherposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  I wasn't attacking you personally. I just thought it odd she was characterizing my position as all about me when, in contrast to yours, it clearly is not. You repeatedly talk about how you have personally benefitted since Trump became president. I don't care how much I personally benefit. He is unfit to be president. He demeans the office.
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  Live to Learnposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  DACA, as it stood, was ridiculous. I don't think people who've lived in this country their entire lives should be temporary citizens, so to speak, having to reapply to stay, periodically.
  
  We need a game plan. Preferably one that advances the ability to be viewed as legal citizens for people who have spent their lives in this country. But, the POTUS does not have the authority to waive immigration law. If the Congress cannot provide a fair and reasonable system that is on them. If you don't like that, you should just cut to the chase and demand a king rule us, without checks and balances.
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  PrettyPantherposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  The subject was your assertion that I am all about me, me, me. I merely used DACA as an example of something I care about that doesn't directly involve me. I agree a permanent solution would be preferable.
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  wildernessposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  Just curious, but how is Trump to blame for the DACA mess? How does he have any fault at all for that?
  
  Yes, I know that Obama made the policy that he would not enforce the laws that Congress passed, and that Trump is walking the road of duty and responsibility in doing his sworn duty in enforcing those laws (or at least, at this point, saying he will enforce them in the near future), but how is that negative? Should the president have the right to enforce only those laws that he thinks are right and proper, ignoring all those he thinks should not have been enacted? Same for marijuana laws - with federal laws prohibiting the drug, should he ignore those laws and tell Sessions to do the same? Or is his job to enforce the law regardless of his personal opinion of them?
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  PrettyPantherposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  Where did I say I "blamed" him for the DACA mess?
  
  Geez, you guys seem incapable of understanding the nuance of a discussion.
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  gmwilliamsposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  PrettyPanther, breathe hard. Those who rationalize Trump refuse to acknowledge his egregious behavior. Trump went over the edge, far over the edge. Discerning Americans see this & the world sees it.
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  Marisa Wrightposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  I have not been harmed by Trump, but I DO know people who have been harmed by Trump in vicious, underhand business dealings in Scotland. During those dealings, he showed utter contempt for the local people AND for the environment, destroying world heritage areas even when he'd been ordered not to, cutting off the water supply to an elderly lady's house in an attempt to force her out of her home, and employing heavy-handed guards to scare off the locals.
  
  If he conducts business with such a breathtaking lack of honesty, integrity and compassion, I have no reason to believe he would be any different in other aspects of his life.
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  PrettyPantherposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  Hi Marisa, there are similar stories of these types of dealings here in the U.S. Many of his supporters apparently view this type of behavior as "good business acumen"
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  Live to Learnposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  LOL. I notice no one with that view expresses any problem with the Clinton's greedy and less than exemplary attempts to take in funds in whatever shady manner they deem to be advantageous,
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  PrettyPantherposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  If that is shown to be true, I will denounce it. Just like I denounced Franken, when he was shown to have engaged in sexual misconduct. It's called consistency. Trump supporters now have no leg to stand on in that regard.
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  Live to Learnposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  It doesn't appear you have a leg to stand on. Two individuals with allegations against them. Neither convicted of crimes. You denounce one and ignore the other. I think the why is painfully obvious to all, save one, in this discussion.
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  Randy Godwinposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  So Hillary hasn't been convicted of a crime either, but that doesn't prevent those on the right from claiming she's a crook many times over.
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  PrettyPantherposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  And, she was investigated practically nonstop for years.
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  Live to Learnposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  LOL. You guys are priceless. Although this whole thing is funny on many levels. I'm defending a guy I can't stand and you guys are defending a woman who is indefensible.
  
  American politics. It's a b##ch.
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  PrettyPantherposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah, it would be funny except that one is demonstrating daily what a f@ck@p he is as president.
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  jackclee lmposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  It was a wise man who said don’t put all your eggs in one basket and never bet against the American people. Guess who said that?
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  PrettyPantherposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  Most American people want Trump gone, in case you haven't noticed. Heck, more voted against him than for him.
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  Live to Learnposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  It took me a minute to figure out the bad word. You don't like the guy. I get that. This causes you to be blinded and one sided, hypocritical to a fault. And it keeps you from doing your happy dance. You have my sympathies.
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  PrettyPantherposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  You're right. I'm one of the approximately 65% who are unhappy with his job performance. We're all just hypocritical partisans, unlike the rest of you. Got it.
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  Live to Learnposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  Actually, I was only speaking of my opinion of the dialogue in this conversation. I'm not shallow enough to assume that would encompass all who voted a certain way. I have more respect for others than that.
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  PrettyPantherposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  If you can show me where I've been inconsistent I'll buy that explanation. I ve specifically stated on these forums Trump is not a crook and neither is Hillary. I've specifically stated Trump is a self-adnitted sexual predator; so is Franken, and neither is fit for office.
  
  I accepted the economic indicators under Obama and I accept them under Trump.
  
  Where is the partisan inconsistency again?
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  Live to Learnposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  Did I axis you of being inconsistent? I thought my stated opinion is that you have been consistent in your negativity, while consistently giving a free ride on the other hand. If you could show how you haven't, I'd appreciate it. I always look forward to changing my opinion of something, or someone, to a more positive light.
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  PrettyPantherposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  Lol, okay, since I don't think I've done that it would be hard for me to show how I haven't now, wouldn't it? If I have done as you say, then show me.
  
  This was your original assertion. "This causes you to be blinded and one sided, hypocritical to a fault."
  
  Show me.
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  Live to Learnposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  The problem here is that your entire body of posts proves it, imo. Your words are the proof. You, obviously, see it differently.
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  IslandBitesposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  LOL
  Now lets change "the guy" for Hillary. Yep, it works.
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  Live to Learnposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  Yep. I dislike Hillary. That's a fact. However, she lost the election. Setting the 'YAY!! WHOPEE!! to the side, for the moment, my primary acceptance of Trump as president was the knowledge that he was the lesser of two evils offered.
  
  But, in fairness, I do now believe much of the dialogue against him is little better than what negativity we experienced against Obama. A large portion of it driven only by distaste for the man. The truth is, the measure of the success or failure of a president takes years to study,watch and determine. I think most are jumping the gun. On both sides.
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  Live to Learnposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  Well, sure. Follow the Peewee Herman defense. That's a great plan Randy.
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  PrettyPantherposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  WTH are you talking about? Trump admitted he is a sexual predator when he bragged about grabbing pussies, which is exactly what some of his accusers claim he did. Of course, Honest Don, after once apologizing for his words, subsequently tried to claim the tape was fake. Who is more credible, Trump or his accusers? Oh, wait, I think I already know what you will say.
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  jackclee lmposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  I would suggest you go back and see the video again. He did not admit to doing it...
  He said you could do it...as backroom locker talk...
  It was Bush who goaded him and pay attention to the last part when he try to get Trump to kiss a girl...
  This whole affair of the video by NBC was designed to take down Trump and it failed.
  The people saw thru it for what it was. Shame on NBC...
  It reminded me of Dan Rather with his fake story on GW Bush. It cost him his anchor job.
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  PrettyPantherposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  Uh huh. I rest my case.
  
  Does it bother you at all that he apologized for the tape, then months later tried to claim it was fake?
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  jackclee lmposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  This double standard is killing me.
  Clinton can do no wrong with Monica and yet Trump is a predator.
  All politician curse and yet Trump is the sick one with foot in mouth disease...
  All politician lie to their constituents and yet Trump is the biggest liar...
  
  Here is undeniable facts about Trump you may not like it.
  1. He is a successful business man for over 30 years in NYC.
  2. He is a huge success in Entertainment with The Apprentice TV show 14 years top rated.
  3. He ran for President without any political experience and won the top ticket on the first try.
  
  What do you call this man?
  A winner.
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  PrettyPantherposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  OMG you bring up Bill Clinton. I didn't vote for him the second time. Consistency.
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  IslandBitesposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  Indeed.
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  Live to Learnposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  PP, by your own standards, if unconvicted...innocent. No matter the accusations, the words or actions. Those aren't my standards, they're yours. You, and countless others, have insisted this on multiple occasions.
  
  Can you explain why, with Trump, you are abandoning this ?
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  PrettyPantherposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  First, I didn't exactly say that. But, let's just say for the sake of argument that I did.
  
  Show me where I "have abandoned This." But, let's clarify. What do you mean by "abandon this"? If you mean I have said Trump is guilty of a crime or is a crook, I have said no such thing. And if you think I have, show me.
  
  Your full remarks: PP, by your own standards, if unconvicted...innocent. No matter the accusations, the words or actions. Those aren't my standards, they're yours. You, and countless others, have insisted this on multiple occasions.
  
  Can you explain why, with Trump, you are abandoning this ?
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  jackclee lmposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  The answer is simple. To fight the double standards in the media and in the Democratic party.
  Republicans has been at a disadvantage by the bias for so long. By all estimates, the media has a 10% or more influence on our electorate. They are liberal and in cahoots with the Democrats. Trump has found a way around this and is winning...
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  Live to Learnposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  Well, just within this exchange, you accused Trump of sexual harassment. Using a tape from a locker room exchange as evidence and purported claims, none of which have been proven in a court of law. By experience, I know that what men might brag about and what they do are rarely one in the same. And I would need to hear the testimony of the women (and the circumstances). So, although that lowers my opinion of the man, personally, it is not evidnce of any crime other than being an insecure ass.
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  PrettyPantherposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  Trump admitted to grabbing pussies and kissing women without their consent, on tape. Many of his accusers said he did exactly that. Franken also admitted to sexual misconduct. I believe they are both unfit to serve due to being sexuasl predators.
  
  Of course, if you believe a lying liar over all those women, then there is nothing more to talk about. I am consistent; you are not. Unless, of course, you think Franken should not have resigned. Then you would be consistent.
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  Live to Learnposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  LOL. so, I suppose the accusers of Hillary are lying and the accusers of Trump are all telling the truth.
  
  Double standard, they name is PP.
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  PrettyPantherposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  Hillary was investigated and not indicted. She either committed a crime or she didn't. Her accusers, the FBI, chose not to indict. I have never said she is innocent; I have said she is not a crook since she has never been indicted much less convicted. Nuance is your friend.
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  Live to Learnposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  Has Trump? For any of the crimes you accuse him of?
  
  Again. If the man is found guilty of anything, punishment should follow. But your double standard is not allowing you to give him the same benefit of the doubt you afford to Hillary.
  
  Edit. Personally, I think (if accused) he would do the same lawyer shuffle as all of them and get off, unpunished. But, still. Until that moment we cannot know.
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  PrettyPantherposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  You still have not provided evidence of the double standard you accuse me of. If you can't provide links to back up your assertions, this discussion is over.
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  Live to Learnposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  Read this thread. I stand behind my assessment,
  
  And, to be honest, it wasn't a discussion. It was you repeatedly making the same assertion, with different words, without responding to my comments. I'll leave you to dreams of happy dances. Which can help you to continue to ignore reality.
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  PrettyPantherposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  Then you ought to easily be able to back up your assertion with direct quotes, which you have repeatedly elected not to do.
  
  Okie dokie.
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  Anum Z Zaidiposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  True!
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jackclee lmposted 6 years ago
Would you say Obama was also divisive?
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  PrettyPantherposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  No. If you think he was, please give some examples of how he personally stoked the fires of division.
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  jackclee lmposted 6 years agoin reply to this
  Ther were so many but Ferguson came to mind...
  He did not heal the race and created tension with police..
  Supporting BLM and OWS are just another way to divide by race and income...
  There were so many incidents where he commented first without the facts.
  The fact that you don’t know this is shocking...
  It means you are not getting the full picture in your news...
  The media covered for Obama while now spinning against Trump.
  reply report

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