With the shock confession of S.C Governor Mark Sanford on Wednesday Night of his adultery some people are suggesting he step down or be impeached.
He has been in the headlines just recntly too for refusing bail-out money which from the locals I talked to were not over the moon about either.
I know it not a new thing but it does make me wonder when some leaders are quick to pass judgement publicly on others then fall from grace themselves.
He has resigned as chairman of the Republicans Governors Association ,should that enough?
What are your thoughts?
No. I don't think he should. I think he should refuse to step down. If he is being asked to step down just because of his sex life- that's flat wrong!
See, this is what worries me about the Republican party. That have centralized too closely with religion. If he is a good governor, active party member and solid Republican patriot- who should care about who he goes to bed with? I don't, I wouldn't. Does he pay his taxes? Is he politically representing the patrons of his great state well? Other than "moral" laws, what laws of state has he broken?
I agree in part, however doesnt being morally upstanding not have any part of the oath he took ( similar to what judges and law enforcement officers take)..see to me ,being a good citizen also means not fooling around , or correct me if Im wrong here ,does it mean only crimnal crime?
If morals dont matter , why have past leaders been impeached then? ( not suggesting he should be , just tryin to make sense of whats ok and whats not , surely these men know the game, or perhaps they do , and the average joe has more integrity than they have in their little finger
Separation of church and state. No. They are not one in the same. Ben Franklin cheated openly on his wife. Ben Franklin had an illegitimate child. Where would America be without him? What of Ben's morals? Nonsense. So now we have to morally correct too? Please. How about George Washington's morals? How about Andrew Jackson's? How about JFK? How about FDR? How about Cleveland's? How about Thomas Jefferson? How about Eisenhower's? How about Ford's? How about, do I need to go on?
Well yea you could go on ,but Im glad you didnt.
Separation of Church and State that probably sums it up right there (for me), and no need to be condescending ,I was curious as a new immigrant and for a moment because of all the hype (media) I thought possibly morals were an issue.
Seems its on the 'ok' list
Man thats a sleezy value to send kids all the same.
Parents should worry about "sleezy" values. So now he is suppose to be the Ultra Moral Role Model, because he is governor of some state? Please. How about parents minding their p's and q's for starters and start acting like role models themselves. It is ridiculous the expect him to be the "Ultimate Christ-like" person for the freaking state of South Carolina. Especially with South Carolina's morally appeasing "moral" history. Oooooooooooooooh snap! Yeah, like I said....
Yikes calm down ,I didnt mean to hit a nerve.
By the way there is only one Christ ,so no fears there.
Thats the problem with society( Western ones ,that is) , its always someone elses responsibility.
Im not a Carolinian , but so what? neither were the other leaders RK quoted.
Try not to let your pride get you so emotionally worked up about it.
Its not about where youre from ,its all about honesty, well now Ive been corrected on that morality too now.( Infidelity is ok , but lying is not?)
So maybe ,I just say nothing and accept well ya messed up there,reneged on a committment,(according the church ,but not the state)...wierd, so here take my taxes go hiking wherever the hell you like. Sit on your John Deere tractor toiling your acres of land that constituents will even help you pay off because your such a good hard-working honest Republican man
Look bottom line if hes employed by the state, like thousands and thousands of other employers,then same rule applies.
( By the way ,probably the only one who really cared was his wife and now kids about his disloyalty)...but that wasnt actually my question ,so stick to the topic
Emotionally worked up? Ummmm, no. How about I try to take your moral theory more seriously and stop trying to mock the irony. Charged? no. 1 Christ you say? Then why the stalking moral compasses over Stanford? Never mind, I'd hate sound emotionally rechargeable.
The religious right isn't what's wrong with the Neocons. It's the pervasive, unthinking, unreflective nationalism. It's the arrogance of thrice-divorced adulterers reaching for the banner of traditional families, and it's the arrogance of men who prosecuted a poorly planned war, on weak intelligence, presuming to lecture us on national security.
--Ta-Nehisi Coates, on irony
I would prefer that my governor or president wasn't carrying on with behavior that is insulting to his family as well as the public. But let's face it, it has been normalized, Clinton made it ok by the defense the libs put up about it being his personal life. I disagree, if one is morally bankrupt in his personal life it is most likely to carry on to his public life too. But in this post Clinton, "it depends on what your definition of is is" society we live in we have to treat all the same. So let the Governor go back to governing.
The Shark---keeping the playing field level.
What do you mean separation church and state? There is not such a thing. You are born in US and did not read the Constitution? It is in Soviet Constitution and all who say this statement are layers.
I agree based on what you said but think he should for other reasons. I think going on a hiadus (sp?) and lying about where he was going is a pretty good reasonf or him to step down.
He abandoned his people, what he was doing in bed doesn't concern me, nor should it be of anyones concern but in the regular workplace, if someone just up and disappears and then lies about it, they would get canned.
It's like a babysitter leaving the kid at home cause he wanted to go to the beach with his friends or something. It's irresponsible, shows a lack of commitment to his constituents and poor judgment.
South Kakalakian Governor Mark Sanford should make amends to his wife for doing what most men do in the dark, as well as come forward and apologize to the american people at least the S.C. people on a public adress and step down shortly thereafter based on a good replacement for his high position.
well Govt must have rules and guidelines because they all expect you and I too
Yhea, I agree about the rules, is that why Clinton resigned?
OMG forgive me, he only had an affair in the White House with an intern, then lied under oath to a grand jury. Wasn't the cries of the liberals, it's only sex!!! and it's a personal matter.(of course it is) Clinton said it's only sex depending on what your defintion of is is, remeber that gem? Or how about the memorable academy line: "I didn't have sex with THAT WOMMAN, Miss Lewenski."
But that was really just a "Right wing conspiracy". It had to be, isn't that what Hillary told us on Meet The Press. So for the Governor I say, it's only sex, and it's his personal life.
The Shark---keeping things fair
All your sarcasm aside, and because I've not read all of the "news" reports on this whole shebang, but did this Governor commit perjury?
These things split so much down party lines. It's ridiculous. I didn't care about Clinton's stupid affairs (let that to his wife). I don't really care about this Gov's stupid affair...the fact he used taxpayer dollars to fund his tryst and disappeared for a week, however, might warrant consideration.
Overall, I believe it to be a slow news week. Man, his apology on CNN was boring last night.
The women smiling in the background the entire time were loving it.
Yes I agree its a sad time for the families.
But when Governors are sworn in , is their not a clause that says something like ...Being Honest?
I dont agree with media dragging his republican ass thru the dirt ,but I do think its like any game , you cheat , youre outta the game , new player in ( pardon the pun)...
abandoned us?? LOL This is South Carolina,,, Like some one else mentioned ,, he doesn't have the launch codes.. Not that I think it's morally correct that he's having an affair,, but if you're gonna ask him to resign for it,, you might want to prepare for a re-election of probably at least half the government officials in office. and yea,, this must have been a slow week for news
Another thing, I'm not a farmer. I don't own a John Deere tractor. Never been on one. Live on the East coast, next to rocks, sand and water.
Don't give a shit about Christ. And the patrons of my great state apparently don't have a stick up their butt about being morally sleezy, role models for all of "GoDS" and your children. You should stay on topic. I believe your the farmer who is tilling the wrong field.
I really dont care which state youre from and your Religious convictions are your own) and I only ever mentioned SC so as not to confuse Governors (although it seems it possible that didnt matter either in terms of whodunnit)
You missed the point entirely on wealth and accountability, farmer, lawyers,brokers, they come in different colors and nationalities , one size fits all.
Sorry if you couldnt follow me, but we do all live on the same field
Good all round history and ethics lesson.I suppose.
Whatever state you live in, the majority of people there DO care about morality. And the separation of church and state has nothing to do with the morality and character of public officials. Morality is not a 'religion,' it is a part of thinking and valuing things and a legitimate part of voters' decision making process. You have it too. Now, if this cat didn't break any laws (which Clinton DID by the way) then there may be no legal grounds for his removal, but if his behavior has made him unfit to represent the people of his state then he should have the strength of character to go away on his own.
And your opinion of Ben Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, Dwight Eisenhower, Ford, Andrews, FDR, JFK, etc... would be?
Just imagine if America didn't have Benny, Tommie and Georgie Pooh. Where would you be? Your the Linguist. Your closed lips would be effective the most, don't ya think. Wouldn't have that right or freedom? Especially if the Godly compasses were on. TK, just think about it for a second, before the witch hunt begins. Well said? Not well said? TK your the excerpt on HubPage relationships. Tell me? Shall I get out my scarlet letter first? Just in case?
If their foibles had been made public then they surely would have been gone. Times have changed, and if they were stupid enough to behave today as they did then they would deserve to be gone as well. Jefferson owned slaves. I guess there is no moral component to that? He was still a great president.
where i live i only get FOX news - can u imagine that? Those guys over at FOX news totally over-reacted are just ridiculous in my opinion.
I'm proud to be an American but think Americans in general are way to uptight about this sort of incident. the governor is a human being just like the rest of us. judge him on whether he's doing a good job or not as governor of SC and let him work out his private problems with his family.
I totally agree with you ! and Im not uptight in the least ,disappointed and sorry for his family but my question was to really know and understand I guess
How are Governors judged to be doing a good job or not? since they are on high salaries and the decisions they make for their state dont hurt them ,but the very people who put them into power.lack of employment , health issues,housing ,roading ,the list goes on...
Trust me it wasnt just on Fox ,but in all fairness too many people especially Republicans and the people who trusted him it have expressed hurt. And Mark resigned as chairman to the Republican Assoc. so obviously morals were an issue for him.
I am the last person do want to offend any Americans , I married one ,for better or worse lol...but I also expect respect no matter what my nationality ( is why I answered an earlier post, the way I did)
How is that "sleezy" moral compass of yours working? Pointing due south I see. Cheers. It's been real.
Yea like Southern Hemisphere South .. keepin in real
Did you not notice that the subject matter moved on? Are you that desperate for attention? Well the is the last you're gonna get it from me. Who cares about this bantering between us anyways? Move on with the flow, before you are caught up looking silly for being so petty.
So you think that he should be governed by a "sleezy" moral value system. Why because he is Republican?
I think it doesn't matter as long as he is a worthy politician. He is governing matters of state. NOT CHURCH. Are you that incapable of recognizing a preacher man from a governor?
"Matters of State." And not YOUR "sleezy" moral value system established by YOU, for YOUR children's sake. Are you incapable of teaching moral values yourself, so much so that YOU have to rely on a politician to do the job for you, from a whole other state than yours? That's amazing. You must get gas mileage out of the "John Deere" tractor of yours.
To get to the original question - No, I do not think he should be asked to step down, he should not be impeached.
He should be charged to pay back any money he used from government funds, and be fined heavily atop that.
He should also be sent to marriage counseling with his wife.
The "news" should not pry into the sexcapades of any public figure, end of story. Yes, they put themselves up in the public eye, but that doesn't mean we all need to know what position is his favorite or what kind of women he likes to bang.
Yessssss, finally someone with a solution...without the hoop la.
Gamegirl, curious who should send him to "marriage" counseling? And who should be forced to split the bill? The tax payers of the great state of South Carolina, after a State court issues the order? Seriously, curious about that comment made.
We're just giving theoretical solutions here, right? It's not like the SC government is going to decide on something based on my post on a forum rife with angry debate-ish type stuff.
To be honest, I believe all costs for counseling and the like should be footed by this guy, just like paying back any money improperly used, and paying a fine. If he's a church goin' fella, his clergyman could even be the one to take care of the counseling, and that'd be provided without cost - at least I know it's provided without cost for us normal, non-rich folks.
Just some opinions from a former resident of Beaufort.
I don't know Gamegirl if this is going to get angry, ugly, rife, funky, crazy, weird, righteous, lousy, funny, etc..... I don't know. All depends on what tractor your driving I guess. Seriously don't know. Your not emotionally rechargeable are you? Kiddin'!
You know, I was just curious. Most state court mandated sanctions is paid by tax-payers. I think you mentioned that he should be sent to marriage counseling. Well if the sentencing comes from a South Carolina judge- then looks like SC gets screwed twice. That's all.
So tell me, ugly? Good? Weird? Crazy? Green? Blue? Wheat? Soy? All the above works too. Don't know what kind of tractor that would be, but still that's all I was curious about.
My tractor is bright, neon, glowing pink thank you very much!
If he gets sentenced for anything at all, or any judgments are brought down upon him, as I've said a few times - he should be charged with also repaying any court costs, any applicable fines for mismanagement of money, any counseling or therapy for his family unit.
He chose to pork another piggie, he can pay for the bacon.
I want to see a tractor made out of soy beans now.
Hey you might be good but youre not that good to know where and who has moved on....
Oh you must mean be out of your sight ,lol
I like discussion with respect not ranting and raving like a hormonal unbalanced teenager!
Morality obviously irritates you ,get over it.
I wood be fired if I left my job and didnt report and my wife woodnt let me come home unless I brought her some money.
ahhh but you know at least know, what morals are Raider ,and so does the Gov.
It is one thing to impeach a politician for their policies, but to me way too hypocritical to ask for their recall due to their personal life. Through out the history of the US we have had many presidents and other politicians that had mistresses and affairs. Also, here is a link showing how neither side is immune to infidelity. I do not care if my governor or president is having affair as long as he is running the country well, which I could definitely say about Clinton.
http://www.salem-news.com/articles/octo … _17_07.php
I, personally, don't give a hoot about who does what in his private life; however, I do think (and this may be unrealistic of me) that people holding public office should have enough self-control, good judgment, and maturity to behave themselves while in office. That shouldn't be too difficult for anyone to do, and if it is then he isn't - as far as I'm concerned - mature enough to hold public office.
Then, on top of it all, they come out and do their public sniveling; while the whole thing makes a joke out of the office they hold.
He seems an outrageous hypocrite to me, and should resign. He voted to impeach Clinton, and criticised another republican who had an affair, saying about him lying to his wife:
"The issue of lying is probably the biggest harm, if you will, to the system of Democratic government, representative government, because it undermines trust. And if you undermine trust in our system, you undermine everything."
If you live and vote in South Carolina, then your opinion matters. If you don't, get over it.
How many of you hating on the guy are perfect?
How many are living in glass houses?
How many of you have supported adulterers and otherwise corrupt persons?
I have not lived a pure life and have yet to meet one who has.
We are not in his shoes, we don't know all the details. What is is.
That line of thought never stopped him condemning others for affairs, did it?
Yes, it does. Because he is a hyprocrite, and should apply the same standards to himself as he has done publically and aggresively to others.
Even if he hadn't made a big deal about such things he should still be man enough to recognize he's not fit for the office and step down.
If you mean Clinton, give ma break!! The guy was essentially a molester. He did it with an intern he was an authoritative figure over her. This is quite a different thing. Think of how you would feel as a parent. Your kid calls from college telling you she just got an intership at the White House. OMG---how great!!
Then the President of the US takes her in the Oval Office and has her get on her knees. You as a woman are going to tell me this is the same thing?? These people are consenting adults. Their activity maybe stupid, bit not nearly on the same par as Clinton.
Not just Clinton, he's also condemned, in public, fellow-Republicans for affairs.
Ohh, you must mean MA Domocratic Congressman Gerry Studs who was "censured" for raping a male page in his office in DC. That was the extent of his punishment.Or maybe you mean MA Democratic Congressman Barney Frank. His homsexual "partner" that he was living with was charged with running a male prostitue ring from their home. Gee I see Barney is still in Congress and ruining our banking system. But I guess he got his punishment, after all he did have to "seperate" from his male partner. I guess that means the prostitute business was closed too. Or maybe you meant the last "Lion" of the Senate. Yes that model of moral behavior all should follow, of course I am referring to the one and only Ted Kennedy. Let's see, all he did was drive off a bridge while drunk with a young woman in his car, did I mention he was married at the time? But he handled it like a man, let's see, he climbed out of the car, crawled to shore, went home to sleep it off and reported it the next day. Mary Jo was dead, but of course he did say he did everything he could,(yhea to save his
sorry _ _ _). Funny how he never resigned, instead we celebate him---ohh for Camelot to return. Speaking of Camelot, did I mention President JFK, former MA Demoratic Senator, he had numerous affairs while in the White House. The most famous with Marilyn Monroe. Remember the famous sexy "happy birthday" song by her to her beloved? Goodbye Norma Jean.
The Shark---shining the light on Democrats occult behavior
The one thing I noticed about this is how he didn't have his wife by him during his speech. When you have scumbags like Edwards subjecting their wives to this nonsense just to salvage a political career, I think Sanford showed at least a bit of humanity by not trying to spin the thing and force his wife to show "solidarity" during this time. It says a lot about him, I think.
You discount the fact that the wife may want to have nothing to do with him after such a betrayal of trust. Different women react differently. And not all woman can be forgiving and put up a show of solidarity for the press(even if the husband wanted). Just my two cents.
Actually I don't discount that most women do want nothing to do with an adulterer, but when you look at scumbags like Edwards who was having an affair while his wife was dying you really start to see a difference. No, political wives will do whatever their political husbands ask them to do. They'll pull out the old hoary stand by me in our time of need argument and put on a show for the cameras.
I mean look at Hillary. She's so cold-blooded when it comes to politics she remained married to Bill even though she knew what he was up to. And you want someone like that to represent you?
Especially if they stand to lose that big income that they have become accustomed too!
In my book, if Clinton wasn't impeached, Sanford shouldn't be either.
Clinton had to endure the proceedings and forever left a blot on his otherwise wonderful legacy.
He should resign! If not, then be asked. If then he still doesn't...Impeach him.
Gov. Sanford was a big voice for the impeachment of Bill Clinton. Would be hypocritical for him not to resign now.
Funny how those on a moral pedestal find themselves falling into the same situation.
Has he committed an impeachable offense though?
Let's not re-write the law of the US!! Clinton wasn't impeached for abusing an intern. He was impeached for Lieing to a Grand Jury!! Until the gov. lies to a gr Jury he's just guilty of stupidity. If we impeached people for being stupid, we'd have to impeach just about the entire congress and senate. But it's still legal to be stupid in America, you can check it out--just spend about 30 minutes at your local mall--.
The Shark---trying to keep people from making law.
Maybe, instead of bringing up all kinds of talk about morality (before and after these clowns make fools of themselves), it should be written into the oath of office, "I, Freddy New-Governor, swear that I will act like a grown-up for a whole full years and not bring scandal to myself while I'm holding this office with which I've been entrusted by the voters." Morality shouldn't be the issue.
Whether or not there's an impeachable offense (spending what money on what activity, abandoning the office, etc.), I just think, "They boot Miss America's out for a lot less foolishness than this kind of thing". Kids on high school football teams are booted off for far less too. In so many other areas there's the reasonable expectation that people stay out of trouble. Companies often have some code of conduct for their employees too. I almost think he should just be expected to resign for being a giant jerk (based on the grounds that if your brain isn't capable of knowing how to use good judgement and/or having self-control then that's the same brain you'll be using to make decisions related to your office). Is that the brain you want to trust to have the right priorities when making decisions for the state? I don't think so. He's already demonstrated he can't place the office before his own little needs and wants. (And what is all the crying about? Is that what anyone wants in a leader? _)
Eaglekiwi, thanks. Maybe I'll run for governor of South Carolina if this guy steps down. Oh wait - neither of us lives there.....
Doesn't make any difference, just become a carpet bagger. It's what Clinton did in NY,and it's what Patrick did in MA, and he's done such a fine job for the people of the Commonwealth. It was a "Historic Election"---sound familiar?? He is a black from Chicago with no elective office experience, (Gee this is kind of reminding me of someone). His agenda was a "Universal Health Plan" for all MA Citizens, Wow! This is hitting home. Well now the state is just about bankrupt from this great health bill. But guess what the solution is?? Shazam----New Taxes to meet the debt. I wonder why no one else thought of that? Right now MA is like a microcosim of the entire country. The health plan has hurt so bad, Notice not one Dem has supported Obama's health bill by showing how successful it worked in MA. They also never brought it up at the convention.
I should do a hub on this, but if you get a chance ck out my new hub on the latest from the gov of MA. (Modern Day Marshall Plan).
The Shark---swimming in polutted MA waters.
Deval is a disaster, but to be fair that health care plan was Romney's idea.
This is a really small (and, I suppose, stupid) thing, but you know what really gave me the creeps when Romney got that going? I was in CVS, and there was a giant state-flag banner hanging up in back of the cashier area. It said something like "it's the law" or something like that. I was just really creepy. It reminded me of - like - those Saddam Hussein pictures that were hanging everywhere when he was around. An extreme example, I know, but the "flavor" was there. The actual thing in place is where the issues are, but this superficial reminder just kind of struck a chord.
Shark, I've been incubating a couple of blogs and a book, myself; about the way Massachusetts has completely abandoned the principles that once were part of its proud history. It's just such a complicated, massive, undertaking to present some of the horror stories. Maybe when Massachusetts started to worship and emphasize technology it just kind of forgot about history.
Hi HW, You are correct, when you lose your morals you lose it all.
This liberal thing we have herein the North East is like sprawl. You see a nice piece of countryside in NH or VT and next thing you know it's filled with cookie cutter type architecture, McD's etc.. Liberalsim is the same way, you have a conservative area, and next thing you know sprawl from liberal areas moves in and changes the entire area including the values that the citizens held dear. But they become a minority in their own community. Look at Portsmouth NH, a beautiful conservative hub. Then a few colleges moved in, bringing liberal professors and students who decide it's agreat place to live. At least it was until they changed it from what it was. Portsmouth NH is now a liberal hub,
even the Epicopal church, ( a historic church dating back to the 1700's), is now a homsexual church. The Minister himself announcing he was homosexual to his congregation, and married a man in his church. It leaves little hope, if we could lose the 13 origonal and the left coast we'd have a prety good country. That would be till those living there decided they liked what we had better and moved in and ruined that too.
Not technology, when they started worshiping the Kennedys!
That's MA for ya. Little things like democracy and individual choice mean nothing to 'those who know better.'
“Our business is infested with idiots who try to impress by using pretentious jargon.”
Good one. And yesterday there was a news item which said this wasn't an isolated affair by the Governor. Some of these politicians fit the old Indian saying which goes like this "elephant have two sets of teeth one for showing and one for eating". They have different morals in public and practice different set of morals in there private lives.
The sad thing about it CW-girl is that it is not just some politicians, it is the vast majority of people who have two sets of teeth. In fact I would go that far as to say that all of us have them, at least time to time. Yet we get all surprised and worked up when we discover that politicians have extra teeth too... Talking about a beam in the eye
Nobody cares or looks up to a common man but these people have teams who manage there every public appearance/PR just to make us believe that they are the ones who are "clean" and when we vote them to power then they should live up to it. It is all about setting expectations and living up to it.
it's getting better and better.
not only has sanford admitted later to more than just last year and more trysts AND of using public money for which he himself is determining how much of each trip on tax payer money should be taken out for his affair (he wrote a check to state of SC for 3k) but now he also admits to other affairs in the past and has rescinded his offer to open his personal financial information for audit.
anyone really not want to see this guy impeached?
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