Sarah Palin has just resigned as Governor of Alaska

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Mighty Momposted 15 years ago
Palin as the new Dick Nixon. Now there's a rich comparison.Next they'll be putting her up on the same pedestal as Reagan.
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Mighty Momposted 15 years ago
No one in the history of the US government ever "guessed wrong" about anything before. I am SURE those WMDs are over their in I-raq, we just can't find them. LOL.
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  In recently declassified interviews between saddam and the FBI while he was waiting to hang, he admitted to deliberately making the world think he still had WMD and weapons programs. He said it was because he wanted to keep Iran at bay.
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  nicompposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Iraq is the size of Cali. I suspect they can hide stuff there.
  
  Iraq: 437,072 sq km
  Cali: 163,707 square miles
  
  Don't let the facts get in the way of your opinion.
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Pearldiverposted 15 years ago
Are you guys sure the resignation didn't come about as a result of the recent purchase of Bumble Town by the state of Alaska?

I understand that Alaska was the successful bidder in the NZ Take It or Leave It Useless Town Auction... Apparently Alsaka held the highest bid ($1.17) at the close of Auction (30/06/09)

We are all looking forward to the Seal Night Clubbing scene up there!!
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Leta Sposted 15 years ago
It's my topic, doggie... I can/will post what I want. Freedom of speech, you know. And I don't see you and Misha's 'flirtation,' as sticking to my posted topic, , really. But its OK. You gotta do what comes naturally, after all.
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Now I've told you about the personal attacks, ma'am. A little self control please.
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  Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Fine line between satire and attacks, I guess, for those who are a bit um, monosyllabic, I suppose.
  
  As far as I know, I never received any kind of warning...but somebody else did!
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Is it within the scope of your self control to talk about something other than ME, ma'am?
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  Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I have talked about plenty...giving quite a few references to essays, television news, major magazines, newspapers. Several side issues and alternate points. I don't see where you have addressed anything with any substance...just more broad-based stereotypes...and that's your best posts. (Which do not follow, I might add.) Mainly, it's just 'LOL's' -------, and taking people's quoted text out of context.
  
  You do have a rabid need of attention, though I see.
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Can I take that as a "yes"? See to it that you do then.
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I am instructing you NOT to pay me any of your 'valuable' attention, ma'am. Make a note of it.
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Mishaposted 15 years ago
*biting on his tongue*
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WTuckerposted 15 years ago
I do beleive she was green behind the ears thats for sure and she was probably not the best person for the job of vp but all of the previous ethics investigations that have been levied against her have not stuck. All of the investigations have baisiclly been frivolus attempts to discredit her name and politcal future. I can forgive someone who voted for Obama in fact I feel sorry for them, just as i would for a person who bought a lemon from a smooth talking car salesman, but the people that are still sticking by Obama are just dilusional and cant see the truth as it unfolds. The real "i told you so" will be the republicans when Obama ruins the country whith his radical and idiodic policies.

this is the best list of charges that i could find.

http://www.adn.com/palin/story/838912.html

http://hubpages.com/hub/What-is-Happening-to-My-Country
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Mighty Momposted 15 years ago
Tk -- I don't believe the community spirit of Hub Pages allows for one hubber to "instruct" another hubber to do anything. That implies a power relationship that simply does not exist between you and anyone else here, including Lita.

Meanwhile, thank you, WTucker, for the link to the article on the ethics violations charges. Have to agree most of these seem spurious, at best.
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Just trying to avoid trouble. Unfortunately, some do not seem to share that motivation, or are simply unable to control themselves.
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  Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks, MM. Can't imagine what that one's actual life must be like. Not exactly subtle and here almost 24/7.
  
  And I think those ethics charges are less frivolous than say, the birth certificate/proof of citizenship suites that are be lodged against Obama. Oh...but Palin thinks that if she becomes president, the "department of law," at the Whitehouse will protect her. (There is no department of law. lol )
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  WTuckerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  actually if the allegations were true that law suit would have been very legitemate.
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  girly_girl09posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  As I said way back in this forum, many ethics charges are usually quit frivolous. They work wonders in damaging people's names, though. They only cost a few bucks to file and can cost the state tons of money to clear up. Just reading "So and so is being investigated for an ethics violation" in the news is awful press.
  
  Ethics charges are almost ALWAYS investigated, so there is no way to avoid them. The system needs to be revamped. I'm talking from personal experience here. There have been times when I've been sitting before the ethics board and have observed the board members trying to stifle laughter about the nature of the charges. We're talking grandmothers running for a local house seat and being charged with illegally placing a sign on their granddaughters scooter or something. Come on. You name it, I've seen it. I'm very much a stickler for the enforcement of election law and ethics, but the system needs a major overhaul.
  
  Oh, and about the 'department of law', obviously she was referring to the in-house White House counsel. I find it amusing how people love to jump on other's word mix-ups! I didn't think anything of Obama's "Special Olympics" bowling comment. If you or I were constantly recorded every moment of the day, we'd say stuff like that, too. At least I would, but maybe it's just because I'm a Republican.
  
  k, back to my finishing my mid-term!!! (thanks for the interesting break)
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  Anolindeposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  About the "department of law" -- apparently, there IS a Department of Law in Alaska, so from context, I would assume that she was referring to something that functions the same (I'm thinking Department of Justice, maybe? "Law" and "Justice" are similar enough)
  
  Obama slips up all the time ... along with GG's example of "Special Olympics", I can immediately think of another example: Obama referring to the language used in Austria as "Austrian". To mimic ABC's news article (uh .. I believe it was ABC), "there is no "Austrian" language in Austria."
  
  Do I think that Obama is so dumb he didn't know that Austrians speak German and not Austrian? No. I guess I just don't understand why reasonable people just won't give Palin the same benefit of the doubt.
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  Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Because it isn't reasonable to do so. You really speak from a partisan mindset.
  
  Obama is a constitutional legal scholar who writes his own well-known to be eloquent speeches. He has a JD from one of the top law schools in the country....was a professor. And IS the sitting president of the United States.
  
  Contrast that to Palin--who NEVER has spoken well, and conducts herself very unprofessionally (winking at the debates like a silly cheerleader?). Whose last 'job' was as a mayor of a town of approx. 7000 people. Who went to 4-5 community colleges to obtain her degree--and indeed, has less education and foreign policy experience than I do.
  
  There is no comparison between the two, as much as some would like there to be.
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  Anolindeposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You know .. you're right ... there is no comparison between the two and I will leave it at that (omg ... I just winked like a silly cheerleader!)
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  girly_girl09posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Actually, there are some comparisons. The following is not meant to suggest that I would vote for Sarah Palin for President, rather I just wanted to point out a few facts.
  
  Jon Favreau has written most of Obama's well-known eloquent speeches. Speech writers are the norm in the White House and on the campaign trail, but I thought it should be pointed out that while Obama certainly collaborates with his speech writer, Jon Favreau authors most of his speeches.
  
  Certainly Obama is an eloquent speaker and an excellent writer, but he does have a team of speech writers. Again, no harm in that. Of course Obama is more charismatic and eloquent then Sarah Palin. No one is saying otherwise!
  
  As for winking, since when was that a sign of being unprofessional? Many candidates do this, as well as former U.S. Presidents. Even President Obama has been photographed and videotaped winking. Some people do it more than others. Again, just saying. It's simply a sign of friendly body language. Historically, it's not unusual in politics and commonly practiced. I'm not a huge fan of it either, but it is done.
  
  As for being a mayor of a town of 7,000 people, I certainly don't think that gives someone viable experience to be a candidate for U.S. President. However, the hypocrisy that the Obama campaign espoused towards Palin's "small-town" mayor was interesting as they originally toted Obama as a community organizer. While running for office, he constantly stated that his community organizing days gave him an understanding of public service and shaped his future political career.
  
  The mayors that I personally know have a much better idea of running a town or city than a State Senator, which is what Obama was before being elected to the U.S. Senate. I've never thought he garnered much experience in the U.S. Senate as he was in for only several years and missed around 40% of the votes. I'm confident, however that he'll receive much more experience in the White House.
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Excellent post. Let's just hope our inexperienced president's education doesn't come at our expense.
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Obama has speech writers like every other president. In fact, as a candidate he used the same speech writer that Deval Patrick used when running for governor of MA and sometimes lifted lines directly from speeches that Patrick had used not long before. His 'eloquence' largely consists of reading a teleprompter well.
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  WTuckerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I dont beleive any one here is comparing educational degrees, but rather the fact that everyone deserves an even playing feild and therefore Palin being the ignorant cheerleader you make her out to be deserves the same benifit of the doubt as the highly educated man that cant give an adress without a teleprompter. The fact that you dont think makes you look like a liberal elitist. Im sure your next remarks will confirm my suspicions.
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Great post!
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  Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Man, I was waiting for this exact type of post, lol.
  
  Probably my post will confirm for you that I am an elitist, as your mind is made up for you by the partisan Republican um, 'information' you read, and possibly because I took some time to study spelling, .
  
  If elitism means (and this did not used to be so, except with rise of Neocons and with them a severe exploitation of populism as a political ploy for votes--see Capable Woman's take on the election of the last Georgian Governor) that I believe in education, experience, preparation, the ability to effectively argue points in a general conversation, and indeed, a true INTEREST in matters that effect the national and international stage cogently, then yes, I am an elitist. If elitism means the ability to effectively use language to communicate in written form and in oral form and I expect my elected leaders to be able to do so, then yes, I am an elitist. If elitism means that I expect a female candidate to make it into a national presidential election by running on her qualifications and her own background and merit, and not propped up as a tool in order to (as it turns out ineffectively) drive a wedge between the female voters who supported Obama, and the generally older-school female voters who supported Hillary Clinton, and to 'turn on' older Republican male voters, then yes, I am an elitist.
  
  For believe it or not, populism does not equal merit, and meritocracy is what America used to be about--should be about. That, in its native form meant that everybody has a chance, based on hard work, dedication, drive, and the natural ability to make it--to go forward. The thing with meritocracy, however, is that it MEANS YOU DO THE WORK. And I believe, if intelligent people on both sides of the aisle take this seriously and search their heart of hearts, most would find this take to be the true one.
  
  Equality or merit does not equate to feel-good 'equal time' just because someone is 'plain folks,' reminds them of their cousin Jobeth with the special needs child, winks seductively, or that it "might be nice if one of us were President of the United States." It means, in this case, that you can do the work required in the job you are being voted in to do.
  
  There was very little sign of any of the above about Sarah Palin... And as Karl Rove, the great sculptor of the kind of identity politics and populism I am excoriating here and you are invoking doesn't believe that Palin is "ready for the national stage," and her ex-running mate McCain's camp is coming out with examples of her ineptness, then why, I ask, is she being held up as any kind of an example or deserve any kind of "benefit of the doubt?"
  
  I think you are probably pretty young, and have lots of time to figure it out... And anyway, it's all cool...all good. Nice fish, btw!
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You know what he reads? More elitist ESP? And I don't think spelling is something YOU should be getting on other people about, ma'am.
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  Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Uh, do you know the definition of the term, 'rhetorical question?'
  
  As a writer, I have pride in my work. I'm allowed that, I would imagine? My books published in NYC might indicate something, if education doesn't cut it? My professional day job as a writer/PR director? ??
  
  Oh, sorry, I should indicate my qualifications toward my vocation in the swell way Palin did for national office, I forgot.
  
  Here is a nicely spelled acronym: POS. Meaning (of course), peace, outa sight! Bye, bye troll...
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Oh I would never question how important pride (and synonyms thereof) is to you...
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  Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  As MM has told you, it is not your place to question me. Your entire existence on this site and others, IMHO, is hubris.
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I don't think that's what she said.
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Unfortunately for you, that is NOT what it is understood to mean in common parlance.
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Was that comment meant to be respectful?
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  WTuckerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you for your thanks, another perspective that i have been seeing out there is that it has cost Palin over half a million dollars to fight theese law suits as well as Alaska about the same amount. I dont know if i buy this beeing the only reason for her resignation but her claim that the media coverage and scrutiny placed on her is taking away from her constituents does hold water.
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tksenseiposted 15 years ago
A telling moment occured when CNN anchor Rich Sanchez wondered on air if she had stepped down because she was pregnant again.

Can you just imagine the response if someone other than a liberal had made such a remark?

The deafening silence from feminist groups speaks volumes yet again...
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  livelongerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Well, I'm not sure "feminist groups" are involved in protecting female politicians. I don't remember any of them saying anything about similar attacks by the right against Hillary Clinton.
  
  I personally find Sarah Palin's popularity disturbing for a few reasons. First, I have nothing against the fact that she is Alaskan, speaks with an accent, has a convoluted educational history, has a large family, etc. And while I strongly disagree with her just about every issue, she is no different in that respect from many (most?) Republican politicians these days, including her enemies.
  
  The issue I have with Palin is her startlingly unabashed lack of respect for the truth. She lies without compunction about so many things, from the great (the Bridge to Nowhere support, for one) to small (many exceedingly verifiable everyday things). Politicians are renowned for being liars, but you would think, in the era of YouTube and blogs, that you would be careful about what you say since words can haunt you. Palin seems to have no such fear, but she still cries foul when confronted with inconsistencies in her story.
  
  The fact that she has so many detractors on her side of the political aisle says something, too. Are Lyda Green, John McCain and Wally Hickel all left-wing partisan hacks? No, they're Republicans, all of whom were deeply committed to her at some point.
  
  From what I can see, her most vociferous supporters seem to support what she represents to them rather than who she is. I know Obama also has quite a bit of that kind of "blind" support, but he also has the support of many more that scrutinize everything he says and does, including a large number of Republicans.
  
  The same doesn't go for Palin - her rabid supporters for whatever reason seem oddly unconcerned with the numerous inconsistencies in her positions and her willingness to contradict herself at almost every turn.
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I do. I remember it well. What I don't remember is any condemnation of Bubba when he was abusing his power with a subordinate in the White House for sex. What I don't remember is any peep of support for the effort in Afghanistan where women had been living under the most brutal oppression imaginable. It seems any actual 'feminist' interests are contingent upon the 'correct' political affiliation.
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  Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Concerning Clinton: That's because most women, who have brains, realize that although Bubba's behavior is not exactly upstanding, having an affair is mainly a concern within the Clinton's marriage. Not an impeachable offense. Women as a group are not that concerned Hillary has a dallying insecure goof sexually for a husband. The women of the USA were more interested in what Clinton could do promoting their interests socially and politically. End of story.
  
  Which is why fyi, I for one was not interested in the Sandford's affair...or his emotive ridiculous interviews. Although truly Neocon, and hypocritical, he had condemned Clinton.
  
  And as far as policing the world...um. Think there is a bit more too that whole thing than just 'feminist interests.' But anything to prove your less than studied viewpoint...
  
  Oh, well...looks like you are learning to use a couple more syllables this time around.
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Excuses and rationalizations proving my point exactly.
  
  And AGAIN, Clinton was not impeached for having sex, he was impeached for lying under oath. (how many times do we have to go over this?)
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  livelongerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Well, your use of the epithet "Bubba" suggests you are a partisan and an elitist, too. Regardless, Andrea Dworkin, Barbara Ehrenreich, and Camille Paglia all bashed Clinton for the Lewinsky affair. Maybe you weren't seeing what you didn't want to see?
  
  As for Afghanistan/Taliban: come on. Who on earth supported this regime? Note the general silence when it came to the US attack on Afghanistan vs Iraq. Many, if not most, feminists are anti-war so the feelings were mixed, but this article makes it clear feminists were decrying violence against women in Afghanistan since the Taliban took control of the country.
  
  Again, I wonder if you weren't open to reading things that didn't confirm what you wanted to believe. Funny how partisans tend to do that.
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Partisan yes, elitist no. 'Bubba' is a well-known nickname used for the former president. I didn't just make it up now. A few voices out of the legion of silent complicity only highlights my point. You prove my point on Afghanistan as well. Concern for the plight of women there seemed to disappear the moment American troops hit the ground. Even those opposed to that war (a tough case to make) might have recognized the fact that the plight of women there only stood to improve with any change of regime. But no, any positive word might have felt too much like support for the 'hated' Bush administration, so the plight of Afghan women be damned. Political partisanship at its worst.
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  livelongerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I've got news for you: "Bubba" is an elitist term making fun of the fact that Clinton is a Southerner. Don't let the presence of Dixiecrats in today's GOP fool you; there are plenty of elitists among the Republicans.
  
  And I have no idea what you mean about the concern for women vanishing after the US attacked Afghanistan. Where are you getting this idea?
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  girly_girl09posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Isn't 'Dubya' also a term making fun of Bush being from Texas? It represents how a Texan would pronounce the letter 'w'.
  
  I don't see the difference here...
  
  I'm not saying I agree with using nicknames, but come on - it's done by both parties, Republicans & Democrats alike.
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  livelongerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I think 'Dubya' is the way W pronounced his middle initial (I could be wrong). But at any rate, I don't think W/Dubya is a common slur against Southerners...maybe that's changed!
  
  I think also the issue is that Republicans tend to see themselves as anti-elitist, when this is just more proof that such a claim is nonsense. (I have to admit chuckling when Mitt Romney lambasted "rich east-coast elites" in his convention address!)
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  SweetiePieposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I actually agree with you here girly_girl. I just think it would be better all around if we did not use either of those terms. Really no need to anyway.
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  girly_girl09posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Agreed. I find name calling pointless.
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  Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks for the perspective, Livelonger. All agreed.
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Leta Sposted 15 years ago
That was cute Anolinde. But this is an internet debate forum. Not a national televised debate.

In all honesty, wouldn't you prefer--Republican or Democrat--a woman who was serious, and who got to the national stage on her OWN merits?

I would and do.
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  = if she's not a Democrat, so-called 'feminists' will tear her apart with a particularly bitter, personal visciousness that puts the lie to any pretense of concern for the advancement of women.
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SweetiePieposted 15 years ago
It is probably best to call everyone by the actual names unless they are your personal friend, then a nickname would be acceptable. Of course I am not big on nicknames or short hand, and I do not even use some of the popular terms such as OP that others use in the forums.
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Would that also apply to all of the names President Bush has been called around here?
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  SweetiePieposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I so hate that nickname and never heard it until I came to the forums here. OP is another short hand pet peeve of mine, but this is just my opinion.
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HealthCare Basicsposted 15 years ago
Wow, I hope Palin reads some of this forum information now that she will be stepping down and home studying governments and politics..........
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SweetiePieposted 15 years ago
The truth is Obama is too classy of a man to even look down upon someone who went to community college, which by the way is a great route for people who do not have a large amount of money. However, if Sarah Palin was not so adamant about tearing others down in pursuit of political office I think people would not be giving her such a hard time now. What I have learned in life is we should definitely try to build each other up and encourage each other more. Both sides have some bias to some extent of course.
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You might want to ask the primary voters of PA about whether or not THE OBAMA is capable of looking down on people. You know, those poor ignorant fools who "cling to their guns and religion"?
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  SweetiePieposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Obama spoke some truth in that unfortunately. People that insist on owning guns do scare me a little, and I am free to feel that way.
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yes you, like Obama, are free to look down on people. I'm not sure how "classy" that is, but you are both free to do so.
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  SweetiePieposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Basically you just insulted me. No I do not look down upon anyone, but if anything I think you do. I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt when I thought people were being overly harsh towards you, but now I see why they are doing that. You are rude and love to taunt people!
  
  Not everyone is a fan of gun ownership, but I guess you never heard of the million mom march. People are not looking down upon anyone just because they happen to be opposed to weapons and guns.
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  Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  We ALL tried it, Sweetiepie. I did, too. Didn't work.
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Let's take a look at this:
  
  I gave an example of Obama looking down on people when he dismissed those who "cling to their guns and religion" during the PA primary. This was widely recognized as looking down on people - not my idea or my interpretation alone. Hell, Hilary criticized him for looking down on the PA voters (and turned up in a 'blue collar' bar the next day putting down boilermakers with 'da folks') herself. You don't like guns? Fine, that in itself doesn't mean you look down on gun owners. Saying you are "scared" of those who do own guns suggests a move in that direction though. In Obama's statement, gun owners "cling" to those guns out of fear and ignorance. How is that not looking down on people? He also equates gun ownership to religion as things that the ignorant and fearful "cling to" because they aren't as enlightened as he. I can't see how any fair assessment of that statement and attitude isn't looking down on people. If he was looking down on people when he made that statement and you agree with that statement what other conclusion could I possibly reach than that you too look down on those same people? Can you see how this is a series of related conclusions and not merely an attempt to "insult" you? I took you for someone more reasonable than emotional whether we agreed on various issues or not.
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SweetiePieposted 15 years ago
Apparently not, but I do go above and beyond to be gracious towards people. It did not work this time.
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  Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  On most, it would probably work.
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  SweetiePieposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Basically I just feel silly for even trying, but I should have known it would come to this.
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  Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Well--I just want you to know that I agree with you, you know. That being nice and pleasant to people is usually the best route to go, almost always.
  
  He's only here for one reason though, and that is to be as mean as he can be, as far as I can tell. The attack on MM really made me angry...I just don't understand why he isn't kicked out... But MM was also gracious. It takes a lady in every sense of the word for that.
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  SweetiePieposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  No I did not know he attacked MM. I find him to be very snippy, but I thought it was all an act to drive page views. Now I am seeing he is a troll.
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HealthCare Basicsposted 15 years ago
Palin is stepping out due to law suits. She may be making a good decision to get out and pay the reaper as they say. I believe she is too controlled about family issues which she thinks she is knowledgeable about. Money for those who are focused on her beliefs.
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  Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Agreed. I believe a deal was struck concerning the indictments at the federal level. She also has a book contract with a religious publisher and a Bible publisher....
  
  I think it was Quinlan--the columnist--who stated the same sorta thing you relate about her kinda hypocrisy concerning family issues in the Washington Post today.
  
  I do a lota reading sometimes at work, lol
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  And that is very, very impressive.
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Mishaposted 15 years ago
*biting on his tongue*
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  Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  What NOW, Mr. Misha? Jeez. Did I do something wrong again?
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Mishaposted 15 years ago
LOL I never said you did something wrong

But I promised I don't get between you and TK anymore, so I won't, while it was veeeeeeeeeeeeeeery tempting to put down a sideways remark
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onthewritesideposted 15 years ago
Lita,
I really don't mean this to sound like an offensive post, (well yea maybe I do, but not at you personally), but I've grown so very tired of; the "young and dumb" attitude of a more Socialist, big-government, society, the naive support of the "Dummy-crat" party, and the propension toward the systematic removal of our civil liberties and our way of life, (such as it is). I, too, at one time was a "young and dumb" idealist bent toward the idea that everyone should be taken care of, never thinking about who was going to pay for it. It is amazing how many intelligent people's views change as they get longer in the tooth, and realize that their childish, idealistic views are impossible. Don't get me wrong...the Republicans are no better...Fascism vs Communism...two sides of the same coin. In case you're wondering, I could, at best, be described as a "Constitutionalist", as I have been voting Independent since 1984 when I was 22 years old.

I submit a snippet from a much longer dictation by a Harvard graduate named of David Kaiser, who is a political history scholar:

"And finally, we have elected a man that no one really knows anything about, who has never run so much as a Dairy Queen, let alone a town as big as Wasilla, Alaska. All of his associations and alliances are with real radicals in their chosen fields of employment, and everything we learn about him, drip by drip, is unsettling if not downright scary. Surely you have heard him speak about his idea to create and fund a mandatory civilian defense force stronger than our military for use inside our borders? No? Oh, of course. The media would never play that for you over and over and then demand he answer it. Sarah Palin's pregnant daughter and $150,000 wardrobe is more important. Mr. Obama's winning platform can be boiled down to one word: Change. Why? I have never been so afraid for my country and for my children as I am now. This man campaigned on bringing people together, something he has never, ever done in his professional life. In my assessment, Obama will divide us along philosophical lines, push us apart, and then try to realign the pieces into a new and different power structure. Change is indeed coming. And when it comes, you will never see the same nation again. And that is only the beginning."

And to that, I would like to add a very telling Obama quote:

"We live in the greatest nation on Earth. I hope you will join us as we try to change it."

I don't offer this post in defense of Palin, nor do I offer it in disgust of Obama. I offer it in reference to the "powers that are", and the media that is controlled by them. As long as we continue to believe that "we are wasting our vote" if we don't go with one of the two major parties, then we will never truly see the "change" that we all so desperately seek. I could go on and on...but this post is long enough as it is...Peace.
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  Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  It wasn't at all offensive...and thanks for the take. I like eloquent people. You ARE arguing against a mythical liberal, I would tell you, however.
  
  If you want a bit more info. on my views, look over my posts in this thread... And know that one of my 'heroes,' if I have such a thing, is Andrew Sullivan, I believe to be a real conservative. I don't agree with everything he says, but realize I respect that we must have a conversation about the role of big government in people's lives.
  
  As far as my leanings philosophically, I'd describe them as socialist libertarian. And yes--such a thing exists. Noam Chomsky describes the aims so much better than I do, though, so I won't go into detail with it here... Suffice it to say we probably share SOME of the same values... And like Chomsky would say, we haven't lived with actual democracy in its present form for that long...I believe there will be a lot of experimentation before a more workable system is created.
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  onthewritesideposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  As much as I feel "Socialist Libertarian" is a contradiction in terms, I would certainly have to agree with Chomsky's statement in that we are most definitely infants in our political development.
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  frogyfishposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  ("All of his associations and alliances are with real radicals in their chosen fields of employment, and everything we learn about him, drip by drip, is unsettling if not downright scary. Surely you have heard him speak about his idea to create and fund a mandatory civilian defense force stronger than our military for use inside our borders? No? Oh, of course. important. Mr. Obama's winning platform can be boiled down to one word: Change. Why? I have never been so afraid for my country and for my children as I am now. This man campaigned on bringing people together, something he has never, ever done in his professional life. In my assessment, Obama will divide us along philosophical lines, push us apart, and then try to realign the pieces into a new and different power structure. Change is indeed coming. And when it comes, you will never see the same nation again. And that is only the beginning.")
  
  Onthewriteside: Very well thought and spoken. Thanks!
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  SweetiePieposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  It sounds like you are bitter about McCain not winning the election.
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  frogyfishposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  
  "I am surprised by your statement for I don't feel that way. I was definitely agreeing with Onthewriteside's statements and do. America is surely in trouble, and that cannot be laid at any one group or person's feet.
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  WTuckerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  we still have a chance as a nation but a very slim one. Its getting very hard to discern the good from the bad, when that happens we have problems. Just because you beleive that the thing Obama calls a mouth is actually a gaping lie hole does not being you are acting out of bitterness. In fact McCain wasnt the best republican cannidate in the first place, an American hero but not the best republican cannidate.
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Mighty Momposted 15 years ago
Oh please, oh please! Misha, PLEASE put down a sideways remark!
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  Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah! Go ahead, Misha. Let's hear it. There is no "between" with me and TK. And don't care a whit if I'm more insulting, 'quote, quote,' than he is... Not like anyone is doing anything about him, anyway...don't think, therefore, I'll be effected either.
  
  Yeck. You are SO mistaken.
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  'affected'
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  Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  As this may have more of an effect: You are probably the least attractive person verbally I've come across on Hubpages. Since we are allowed to thumbs down--I give your 'writing' here on the forum a huge thumbs down. Get the picture clearly?
  
  But thanks ever so much indeed for serving as a not-for-pay 8 buck proof reader.
  
  Hmmm. Now maybe you can tell me who said, "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines?"
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  No offense, but your continual return to personal attack suggests a lack of imagination.
  
  Not sure what you meant there.
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Mishaposted 15 years ago
Sorry MM, the moment is gone. But I am sure it will come again, hopefully where I won't be tied down with my word

Ramen, onthewriteside
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SweetiePieposted 15 years ago
Well being scared of those who own guns, that is all it is, being a little apprehensive about them. I had a friend whose dad was a hunter and we were a little creeped out going to his house because he had his guns and animals trophies on display. That is not looking down on someone, merely expressing a point of view lol.

Also, I think being "reasonable" is overrated, especially when it fails to take stock of the emotional connotations people have towards things. You can reason anything away, but in the end people will always have certain emotions you cannot control. I do not want to be an automaton, and Obama did apologize for those remarks. Did Palin ever apologize for some of the rude remarks she made towards Obama? No, but she jumps all over everyone that says the slightest rude remark about her family.
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  If he apologized then I guess he was forced to recognize his comments were not too "classy," right? How about when he called her a pig? Classy.
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SweetiePieposted 15 years ago
Well I guess it is okay for Palin to call people whatever she wants and imply that people who are not like her are not good Americans. I have tried to play nice about the Palin thing, but there is a reason people did not vote for her and McCain. Unfortunately I think McCain would have done much better without Palin on the ticket, and many of the people that worked on his campaign feel the same way. Why oh why can you not admit that Palin is willing to dish dirt on other people, but whenever anyone does the same she is outraged.
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  How about 'politics is a death-match and those with ambition will generally do or say ANYTHING to gain the power they covet'? How's that? To say "She so nasty!" but "Obama is classy!" is simply disingenuous.
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  SweetiePieposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Well I have never said Palin was nasty, so your implication is merely putting words in my mouth. Obama was born in Hawaii, which has a diverse population, and thus who was exposed to more than one way of thinking. Palin, on the other hand, inferred again and again that people who do not have the same values as her are not good Americans. Also, you cannot deny Republicans working on the McCain campaign had problems with her because many have spoken openly about this. A few former Republicans have even spoken about how they became Independents and Libertarians because of the party's new emphasis on religion.
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Ok, how about this? 'As politicians, they are both capable of doing or saying whatever they have to in order to gain the power they covet'?
  
  This is not a logical conclusion.
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  SweetiePieposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Listen to Obama speak and the policies he has implemented, and one can clearly see he has a diverse perspective. On the other hand all I heard Palin talk about was the evils of abortion and other issues that went against her pro-family stance.
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  And... Obama does not speak in tongues! Always a good sign.
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  Iðunnposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  have to chime in agreement on this one.
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  That is the kind of vague liberal 'target word' that stirs the emotion of the already converted but that upon examination means nothing.
  
  Didn't Obama say he was personally against abortion? Didn't he talk about the importance of family in general and for African Americans specifically?
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  SweetiePieposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  There is nothing wrong about being pro-family, but constant talk on this basis will alienate those who are single, or married people without children. I never saw Palin reach out to a large number of persepctives, whereas Obama did.
  
  Diversity is not a liberal thing, it is a valid human need to be accepted, appreciated, and respected. Once again you try to reason everything away, but basically have little compassion for those who do not fit into your strict confines.
  
  Obama may not support abortion, but he did imply he was going to try and overturn Row vs. Wade either. Obama kept his faith a personal thing, whereas Palin made her faith a campaign thing.
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  but when it comes from someone you don't like it is sinister and dangerous.
  
  Come on, don't go to 'mind reading' land. That is a sure sign that 'discussion' has been sacrificed to 'I don't like you' emoting.
  
  Ok, so he doesn't support overturning Roe v. Wade. At least now you are talking about a policy position.
  
  Are you kidding?! Did you watch the campaign?!
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Sure, some on McCain' staff didn't like her. Do you think everyone on Obama's staff loved Biden?
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Mighty Momposted 15 years ago
Without going back through 266 or however many posts are on this thread at this point, I feel compelled to set the record straight.
I did not say TK doesn't have the right to QUESTION Lita.
I said TK doesn't have the right to INSTRUCT Lita.
You can question anyone you like. It would be nice to do it with respect and sincerity.
But as I recall the exchange, you were pretty much ordering Lita about -- and that is not ok.

Now back to our regularly scheduled verbal boxing match.
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SirDentposted 15 years ago
I know that my Sarah Palin hub has gotten a lot of traffic in the last few days because of her resignation. Just one more good thing to come out of it.
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earnestshubposted 15 years ago
Does Palin really talk in tongues?
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  Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  As a matter of fact, lol. Yes.
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Wow, Presidential material! Not.
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  Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  On that fact ALONE. Jeez.
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  It does speak volumes!
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tksenseiposted 15 years ago
Excuse me, my question was:

Ok, how about this? 'As politicians, they are both capable of doing or saying whatever they have to in order to gain the power they covet'?
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SweetiePieposted 15 years ago
I have read Obama's book and I actually have a great deal of respect for the man. I do not think he covets political office to the same degree as Sarah Palin did. Call this my bias, but it is what it is. Palin only seemed interested in people conforming to her very rigid world view, which drove a lot of people not to vote for her. Obama actually was more sincere and ran an Internet campaign asking what people thought about different issues, whereas Palin told people how they should feel.
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Why not just say you like the one guy better than the other and leave it at that instead of trying to 'prove' things that you cannot possibly quantify? People feel compelled to blur the line between objective and subjective and that is where a lot of trouble begins.
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  SweetiePieposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  No one is purely objective, and anyone who claims to be is deluded. I even once wrote a hub about how everyone has their own propaganda that they preach and teach, and I truly believe that!
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  That's true, but we need to be honest about it instead of making categorical statements that cannot possibly be proven.
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  Iðunnposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Ok.
  
  Palin is ballstothewall crazy and a massive hypocrite to boot.
  
  Obama is so slick and seems to have so much power behind him it's actually scary, but he was the lesser of two evils.
  
  Does that subjective opinion work for you?
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  As long as you're honest about it.
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  JonTutorposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Good call SweetiePie... Folks don't realize that Obama's "special olympics" mention is different from Palin's "Department of Law"... To be insensitive is one thing and being ignorant is another thing.... Those folks who take apart Obama at least should recognize that this guy studied in Harvard Law School without the usual connections which rich folks have.... Palin struggled to even finish her basic degree.... Gosh.... I can't believe people can't distinguish between not being knowledgeable in general and an insensitive remark.... And people like ex NY Mayor who ridicule Obama's community service come charging in defense of ex Wasilla Mayor's credentials.... What did the years of Bush "experience" lead us to... experience doesn't necessarily equate to good judgement... prime example Iraq war.
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  Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks, John Tutor...excellent perspective. And you nailed down what >should< be obvious to others who 'adore' Palin.
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  JonTutorposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  @Lita Thanks. Learning to be careful with my words... my use of the word "moron" was taken out of context earlier.... gotta be more careful here.
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I don't think anyone on this thread has said anything even remotely like 'adoring' Palin. That's very 'playground.'
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  How about when Obama said he visited "all 57 states"? Was that insensitive or ignorant?
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onthewritesideposted 15 years ago
You know what's funny? My mother is a major feminist...I'm talking bra-burner from the '60's. And she can't WAIT to see a woman as president. She has never, as of yet, voted anything but Republican, but when Hillary was running I thought she might change her mind...just because. She didn't. She HATES that woman! Not that she was all that fond of Palin either, but she REALLY hates Clinton. I guess she'll just have to wait until a worthy woman steps up to bat...
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Your mom sounds like a responsible citizen.
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  onthewritesideposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Well she is. But she also doesn't think past her own preconceptions sometimes...
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  How many of us do?
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  Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yes. Only I flip it and completely dislike (for all the reasons I've stated previously) Palin. Hillary was OK..ish. But far too old school.
  
  A worthy woman needs to step up.
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  onthewritesideposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Agreed. We have elected a minority male, and that will do wonders for us socially if nothing else. Electing a woman as President will have a great impact in that respect as well. However, I don't think it would be prudent of us to do so just because we want to say we were "a part of history". Whomever we elect...man, woman, black, white, hispanic, asian, whatever...needs to be COMPETENT. And that's why I think the whole "adhering to the party" attitude is not the best way to look at things.
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  Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yes. I agree completely. Sullivan's take, btw...and it makes for stupid conversation, too.
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  onthewritesideposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Well if it makes for stupid conversation, then by all means, I shall refrain! The fact is though, that once our society becomes acclimated to "people as people", and stops seeing race, creed, sex and color as a problem, the better off we will be.
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  Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  No, I wasn't clear. I meant identity/party politics makes for stupid conversation.
  
  And agree with your last statement as well.
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  onthewritesideposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Oh sorry! misunderstood!
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  As long as we can still discriminate and ridicule people for their religious beliefs, right?
  
  ...................
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  onthewritesideposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  LOL...well that's debatable!
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  livelongerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  That isn't surprising. Republicans loathe Hillary Clinton. It really has nothing to with her aptitude.
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  onthewritesideposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  My mother's aptitude is just fine. What I'm dismayed about is her inability to see past her party politics.
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  livelongerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I meant Hillary Clinton's aptitude (as a politician), which is why I said *her* and not *their*.
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  onthewritesideposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Ack! Sorry! Misinterpreted yet another post!
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Sort of a categorical statement, isn't it?
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  livelongerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Borne out of a large number of opinion polls. Is it really something you would contest? (Or do you like Hillary?)
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Could you show me the opinion polls that show "loathing" specifically and no concern for aptitude?
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  onthewritesideposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Hell screw her aptitude, that bitch should have been in jail 10 years ago. I can't believe that pure evil is only a couple of deaths away from calling the shots!
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Who's that? What professional woman are you are you comparing to a dog and accusing of being a criminal?
  
  Not too sexist....
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  livelongerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Um, no. They don't poll for "loathing." They poll for favorable/unfavorable. But I suspect you know that and are just playing games at this point because you're not making sense.
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Nor do they poll for "loathing" vs "aptitude" and so your dramatic statement remains baseless.
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  livelongerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  They do poll for personal approval ("loathing") and job approval ("aptitude"). And, if you poke around The Google a bit, you'll confirm what I've already stated.
  
  You already have a remarkably long history (in such a short span of time!) of being so consistently wrong, so willing to fight fact with fabrications of your own. So, if you want to entertain the fantasy that Hillary is adored, or even neutrally tolerated, by Republicans, then be my guest.
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onthewritesideposted 15 years ago
I wish I could convince my folks to see past their Republican blinders. Hell I wish I could convince the whole country to see past their "2-party only, or you're throwing your vote away" glasses....but alas, I am woeful that very few see that the true puppeteers have both the elephants and the asses by the balls...
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  It's not easy for anyone to see past their own biases.
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SweetiePieposted 15 years ago
I am an intelligent and educated woman, and I do not need you to speak down to me TK. Basically you imply that anyone that does not agree with you is emotional, and you put words in their mouth. It is so obvious you are slanted in favor of Sarah Palin, or else you would not follow people around and dissect their posts. Well at least there is some pithy substance in my posts, so I should be flattered.
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  Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Amen!
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  SweetiePieposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  He is really snipping at me tonight, so I have had enough of his ploys.
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I believe you are.
  
  I've been trying to talk WITH you.
  
  You have directly and repeatedly said that you ARE emotional. How is that putting words in your mouth?
  
  Really? What have I said in support of her? I have pointed out hypocritical double standards and (often uncharitable) emotion masquerading as political analysis.
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earnestshubposted 15 years ago
I would love to see a female American President some day. But not one that speaks in tongues..... I can't get over someone running for President who believes this dribble and that she had a chance is just scarey.
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  onthewritesideposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I must concur. That woman is pure evil. She would sell her soul, if she had one, to get to be the head bitch...
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  Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Oh! That's my take, too... (Well, even I am not quite that harsh...but, yeah.)
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  .....................
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  Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  The lack of self analysis is just scary.
  
  BTW, they invited an African pastor who fought 'witches' to speak at their church in Wasilla. Thought you might get a kick out of that trivia... There are tapes of her and the pastor 'praying' about these witches together. OMG...
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  Iðunnposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I watched those too - on the plus side, they were pretty entertaining and she made great fodder for the pol comedians. at least she took the bore potential out of the presidentials.
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  That is very funny! Funny thing I have had friends in the States since the seventies, and not one of them voted for her, and consider her a religious extremist, who are the Americans that vote for someone as loony as that? I just need to know for my next trip to the States so I can avoid them!
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  Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Just the 'fringe,' frankly. She is a severely polarizing figure at this stage, even among fellow Republicans. Many are trying to distance themselves from her. (Though ya wouldn't know it on Hubpages, would you?)
  
  Only reason some others may have supported her is that she was 'packaged.' Though thankfully not successfully enough!
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Just look at how the 'liberals' value 'diversity.'
  
  ....................
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  Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You have seriously got to be kidding. I uh...hope? This REALLY proves you are what I think.
  
  I suppose you would find your view pertinent if she were a satanist? (And from where I sit, in all actuality, she was close.) These pastors were attacking and driving people out of African villages that they believed to be witches.
  
  You also realize she did not believe in a separation of church and state, exactly, until she was 'packaged' by McCain for the race?
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I am seriously not kidding. Do you think a visitor from halfway across the world should have been ridiculed as an ignorant savage? My, how some people value 'diversity.'
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  Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I find your view repugnant. You are exactly what I think.
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Imagine my disappointment.
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  Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Ask me if I care. You know I'd prefer you gone.
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I can tell from your constant personal attacks.
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  SweetiePieposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  There are weird preachers from every country on earth. The growth of some of the more preachy evangelical movements is sort of scary too.
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I would hope that any of them would have their faiths respected at least.
  
  I seem to recall recent accusations of that sort...
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  livelongerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Not all faiths deserve to be respected. Do you respect all faiths?
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I do, and I find your intolerance unfortunate.
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Could you provide a list of all the faiths that you, in all your wisdom, have decreed are undeserving of respect?
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  livelongerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  No, I don't need to. All I have to do is provide one in order for my statement to be valid.
  
  Here's one: Islamism (like that practiced by the Taliban)
  
  I'm sure the Islamists are heartened by the fact that you respect their religion - and to think they imagine none of us in the West do!
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  That's what I thought.
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  Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You are so cheap. Like I said, the least attractive person verbally I've come across on hubpages.
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry, I'm fresh out of tears...
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  Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, a middle-aged child who has been warned for his tactics. We are just waiting for him to be banned officially.
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  There you go with the personal attacks AGAIN.
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  livelongerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  It's odd that you don't seem to be able to finish a sentence. Why is that?
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Um, because you edited my quote?
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  livelongerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Oh, come on. Now you're just sounding like a child.
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Wow, lacking in imagination. Don't let your bitterness get the best of you.
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  livelongerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  No, really, please complete your thought. You shouldn't have to rely on redacting others' comments in order to misrepresent them.
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  Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  We've all noticed that. An adequate answer has not been provided.
  
  *edit: His monosyllables, I mean, and also snipping people's words out of context. Brilliant debate strategy.
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  So you hate Islam? Hm, funny how I've heard so much about the previous administration making war against Islam despite the many and deliberate assurances otherwise.
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  onthewritesideposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  One bad apple don't spoil a whole bunch of towel-heads...
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Whoa, whoa, whoa, that is really drifting into the inappropriate now.
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  onthewritesideposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  So Sorry! If you read my post on the previous page though, you would know my real position...
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  Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You know who is inappropriate and who is joking...at least I do.
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  onthewritesideposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Thanx Lita...at least someone understands...
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  SweetiePieposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Towel head comment is a bit over the top.
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  onthewritesideposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I respect the right of any person to practice whatever "faith" he/she may find to his/her liking. That is of course, as long as it doesn't involve strapping bombs to babies' backs or trying to blow up my family. But those aren't "faiths", those are extremists within faiths. No different than the Christian extremists blowing up abortion clinics...don't need them either...
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  SweetiePieposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I do not care about Palin's religion and she can worship a rainbow cloud for all I care because that is her right of course. However, implying she would turn over Row vs. Wade on the campaign trail is injecting way too much of her personal faith in the political process. What I meant is there are weird preachers from all over the world, so I do not think anyone was putting down the African preacher. He does sound more extreme though, you have to admit!
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  That is a political, not a religious, position.
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  SweetiePieposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Palin used her religious convictions to talk lots and lots about it. McCain never implied he was going to overturn Row vs. Wade. Even Bush talked about supporting a woman's right to choice in the 2000 campaign. For being a woman Palin seemed very bossy about what people did with their bodies. She never stopped to consider some people had to get abortions because their lives were in danger.
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  So you disagree with a political position. That's fine, but don't make it more than it is.
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  Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  And I suppose if it is within their 'faith' to burn witches at the stake, you would support their 'respect.'
  
  And we are supposed to engage you in any kind of real dialogue or at all take you seriously. I treat you as you should be treated, ie.
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  What faith would that be?
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  WTuckerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  This is not a loaded question but would you think of the Jihad on the same level?
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  Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Why is that a loaded question? Situations are not black and white/for or against based on partisanship for most considered and intelligent people.
  
  There are extremists (and dangerous extremists) in every religious designation.
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  WTuckerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I was just letting you know i wasnt baiting you into something with my question. I may have taken your statement wrong. I was just wondering if you thought a religion or a sect of the religion that beleived in the jihad deserved respect.
  
  as for your last comment i agree and think ive made that point.
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  Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  No, WTucker. (By the way, is Flread45 your dad, ? He has a fish similar to yours). Jihad is semi-responsible for 9/11. A certain amount of that contingent also treats women like sh*t, denying them basic human rights to put it mildly... Extremists are dangerous, period.
  
  And WHAT is that fish? It's just huge!
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  A lot of Muslims will tell you that the concept of Jihad is not what it is made out to be in the West.
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  WTuckerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I think we agree on far more things than we originally thought. The fish is a permit and it was the best tasting fish i have ever had, it was thirty plus inches and as far as i know my dad doesnt post here but ill have check it out. Lita check out my posts and comment i would certainly like your opinions.
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  onthewritesideposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  TK...I'm referring to Hillary of course! But I think you might have missed a "quote" tag in your response cause the thread options screwed up....
  
  EDIT: never mind....didn't scroll down enough I guess...
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SweetiePieposted 15 years ago
tksensei,

I can tell you are overly emotional too, so do not imply you are cool as a cucumber, or you would not need to keep talking about how emotional I am. If I am emotional it is a good thing actually, I have no problem with that, but you make it sound like I did not watch the debate or talk about key issue. I want to know who you think should have been elected to office if you are not so pro-Palin.
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Ok, how? And where? I'd appreciate any help you could give me.
  
  See? That's what I said you said.
  
  Then you got upset because I said it...
  
  Did you or did you not say Obama kept his faith private?
  
  It's not a matter of who "should have" been elected. The American people chose the candidate they wanted. That's it. I didn't vote for him but that certainly doesn't mean he "shouldn't have" been elected. You know, Democracy and all that...
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SweetiePieposted 15 years ago
Tksensei you said diversity was a liberal term, no one else did. Diversity is actually a human need and desire, and there is nothing wrong with acknowledging somone is from a different culture or place. As someone that studied history this is very important to me.
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Where did I say that? Could you show me the quote?
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  THAT is an interesting proposition. Would you mind if I started a thread on that?
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  SweetiePieposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Go ahead. Sure lots of people agree with you. Who did you vote for in 2008? I really want to know since you ask me and others 20,000 questions.
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WTuckerposted 15 years ago
Wow i stay off for a few hours and have a ton of catching up to do. Thanks for the compliment on the fish Lita, and for the pointer on spelling but sadly i type fast and sloppy and tend not to edit my replys very well so it probably wont change. I guess my point is that just because of her merits or lack there of doesnt preclude the right to be treated just as fairly or given the benifit of the doubt. Now that is not to say i would vote for her. I like her stance on many things but like obama before her i dont think she is experienced enough to be the president of the United States.

without seeming condensending i wanted to clear up some definitions of words i was using.

e·lit·ism or é·lit·ism (ĭ-lē'tĭz'əm, ā-lē'-)
n.
The belief that certain persons or members of certain classes or groups deserve favored treatment by virtue of their perceived superiority, as in intellect, social status, or financial resources.

The sense of entitlement enjoyed by such a group or class.
Control, rule, or domination by such a group or class.
e·lit'ist adj. & n.

and i said that your next post would probably confirm my suspicsion. So i did not have my mind made up and i still dont i just know that the liberal elite tends to argue along the same lines as you. I also try to get a fair veiw of things in the media. I do not buy everything i hear on FOX news and actually think CNN gets it right most of the time when they are not covering celebrity gossip, but i tried to watch Keith Olberman today and almost vomited.
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Leta Sposted 15 years ago
WTucker-
I grew up quite working class in Omaha, NE. My dad was a truck driver. Mom worked in the Campbell's soup factory. I worked my way through college and graduate school--often working more than 2 jobs. Since I have a degree in journalism, I find it down right odd that Ms. Palin didn't even do a tiny little practicum in her field...but I could go on and on. I researched her well.

LOL. Any other questions?

I STILL want my president to be well educated and be able to perform in the job I elected him to.

Hey..It's all cool!
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  WTuckerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I too want a qualified president and i dont think that at this point that Palin is that cannidate nor do I think that obama is either. His educational accolades are impresive but his experience and track record were and are less than stellar.
  
  AS far as the elitist comment i was talking of a liberal elitist which I take to mean someone who thinks of there values as supieor to others to level of holding contempt for all others. You actually seem to be dissproving my assumptions at this point, i find most bleeding heart libs as elitists. My whole point was that no matter what a persons educational experience is they still deserve the same treatment as others.
  
  And yes it is all cool.
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  livelongerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  By this definition, most conservatives are elitist, as are just about all evangelical Christian conservatives.
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  WTuckerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  you are right that there are conservative elitists, i definitly wouldnt agrue that point. I do think you are wrong in saying most are. I tend not to get along with elitists from any camp.
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SweetiePieposted 15 years ago
I get who is joking, but I was a little sensitive about the towel head joke. I am part Arab, so that is why.
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  onthewritesideposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Then I apologize most sincerely if I offended. It most certainly wasn't my intention...
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  SweetiePieposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I took it way too sensitively I suppose. I see you are joking.
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  onthewritesideposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks for understanding, and again I apologize.
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  SweetiePieposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You do not need to apologize. It is no big thing.
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Anyone should be. Nothing funny about that sort of thing.
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Mighty Momposted 15 years ago
Well, I guess we can call this "progress" when additional intelligent, respected hubbers (SweetiePie, Livelonger) and an intelligent, earnest newbie (onthewriteside) join the fray. And Earnestshubs was in the mix, too.

I have absolutely nothing to add to this conversation. So I will say good night and plan to check in again in the morning. No doubt the post count will be over 500 by then!
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  Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Nah, doubt it, MM! (About that many posts.) But I appreciate the intelligent and eloquent posters as well.
  
  My humble thread is moving up in the world, lol...
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onthewritesideposted 15 years ago
Well g'night all! Time for this Hubber to hit the hay!
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pgrundyposted 15 years ago
Hey Snark--Her name is Lita, not Lisa.
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  The Sharkposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry Lita, was just a typo, just like yours on my name. Hmmmmmmmm name calling, and I thought liberal elitists were supposed to be above that.
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  Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry. What I read in your post is (from what I understand) a lot of anger and confusion. Quite a litany. I'm not prepared to take each point.
  
  I think you were addressing Pam, here, though? Not me? ?
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Mighty Momposted 15 years ago
We could keep a running tab with four columns, two each under each person's name.

OBAMA COMMENTS PALIN COMMENTS
Insensitive Ignorant Ignorant Ignorant
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Or we could just call them both 'politicians' and leave it at that. Much easier.
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  WTuckerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  funny
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Bibowenposted 15 years ago
If Sarah Palin is going to make a run for the White House she has to start now. That means she has to get into the lower 48, start raising money, start the lecture tour, write a book and some articles, make some good connections. She can't do that in Alaska. She also has to get things moving to help conservative Republicans take back at least one of the Houses of Congress in 2010. If they can take back one of the houses (or if they can close the gap in the Republicans' favor), then she'll get the credit for it and have a wave to ride toward 2012.
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  HealthCare Basicsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You must be kidding... By the way, I have a bear skin rug my grandpa had if ya want it.....
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Mighty Momposted 15 years ago
TK -- I'm good with that. Let's call Obama a politician and call Palin a has-been politician.

Bibowen -- When you put it that simply, she really should have no trouble at all sweeping to victory in 2012. She is Super HockeyMom after all!

LiveLonger -- You're oh so right. Although they would be very insulted to be called that, as they fancy themselves "anti-elitist."
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Ok, does that mean we have to call Obama and Hillary has-been Senators?
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Leta Sposted 15 years ago
AND ANYWAY, folks, Sarah Palin is now officially off the Google news page! (And we all know how important Google ranking is, )

Suppose she's outa the official limelight for awhile... lol...until she can snake her way back into it somehow again. At the moment, she's just yesterday's news.
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  And yet here we are still talking about her...
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  livelongerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Some of us are still stunned that someone like her was close to becoming VP, and that she is being seriously mooted in some quarters to run for President in 2012. Flabbergasted.
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Mighty Momposted 15 years ago
I agree with those who spot a carefully crafted PR campaign behind Mrs. Palin's recent announcement. She is being "handled" no doubt!

TK -- You asked if we should call Obama and Hillary Clinton has-been senators. Are you serious? I think we should call Mr. Obama the president of the United States and Hillary Clinton Secretary of State. They didn't abandon their senatorial jobs with no explanation. They quit them to run for office.
And lo and behold -- both are serving the United States.
Whereas Sarah Palin is serving herself.
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Just trying to clarify how the 'has been' title is to be applied. I thought maybe the focus was on not finishing a term of office you were elected to. So, I guess it is only in effect until she gets a new job?
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SEM Proposted 15 years ago
You guys are hilarious! Have enjoyed the posts. My beliefs haven't changed a bit though: "Sarah WHO?"
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HealthCare Basicsposted 15 years ago
Palin is going to relax, write a book, get a movie deal, run the speech trail, appear at every daytime talk show, and collect the money.
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  Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yep. Either that, or get her own reality TV show. She's a perfect fit.
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I see her more as a televangelist, you know, with the talking in tongues and snake handling live on TV
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  HealthCare Basicsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Palin had to come out and declare she is moving on with the possibility of doing the speech circuit. She knows her daughters "daddy father" has been exposed to too much of her family values and is now entering into a possible movie deal which will not favor Sarah at all...........
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  Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I hadn't heard THAT yet. Wow...
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  HealthCare Basicsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Released on the internet today........
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SweetiePieposted 15 years ago
I just wanted to share I liked both pgrundy's and Mighty Mom's hubs on this subject.
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Pete Maidaposted 15 years ago
If she really has an idea to get into national politics again, this was a bad idea. Now she looks like a quitter. Her rambling reasons made her look silly. All that stuff about only a dead fish goes with the flow; it just didn't work for me.
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tjmatel3posted 15 years ago
I find it really sad that so many people ignore the fact there is a family that has been viciously attacked and worked over. Why do so many think the worst of Sarah Palin? It is ok to disagree with her politics, but shouldn't we remember that she is a person? The fact is, ever since she was announced as the GOP VP-nominee, all hell broke lose as people from all walks of life set out to "destroy" her and her family. That should not have happened, and should not continue to happen. Let's deal with the real issues that face this country and band together to get us past these trying times.
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Leta Sposted 15 years ago
Interesting:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/13/us/po … wanted=all

More interesting still:

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld … 2211.story
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I just read the LA Times story in your link. I think the one point not mentioned is her religious beliefs. Many think she is a nutter because she speaks in tongues, I know I do!
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  Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Well, when the public first heard of her, there were stories on that (then she was re-packaged). Yes, even fundamental Christians have issues, lol, with those 'Charismatics.' Another thing I know she did that completely outraged me was ban books from the Wasilla public library and fired the librarian, essentially, who disagreed with her.
  
  Making her an IMPOSSIBLE, RETARDED candidate to even run for public office for me, period.
  
  Oh. Also read today she is considering a reality TV show, for real.
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Please do not misuse that term. It is offensive.
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  livelongerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Agreed. Lita, please do not call Palin candidate again. *Shudders*
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  Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  haha. Yeah.
  
  And TK. I think you are thinking of the 'slang' definition of that word. I was thinking:
  slow; delay the development or progress of (an action, process, etc.); an impediment...
  
  Which she would be to actual American values...oh, like free speech, separation of church and state...oh, I dunno, basic no-frill things of that nature.
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Not cute, and not appropriate.
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  Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Not what, TK? I'm sorry, it's hard to understand you. You speak in monosyllables and it is getting worse, I see...
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  TK is just doing what he always does.... follow a hubber to make a smart-assed aggressive comment.
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I think I was pretty clear. Show some basic decency at least.
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  earnestshubposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You speaking of decency! It is to laugh!
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Laughing is fine as long as you show some
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  Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You think what? Cannot hear you...
  
  Yeah, I think that Livelonger was on to something, too!
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  It's right there. What is it that you "cannot hear"?
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HealthCare Basicsposted 15 years ago
I heard she will be accepting speeches around the country, but not allowing press to interfere. Seems a bit crazy to me. All points to her trying to gather a following for her religious "mid-middle", despite her "out there" rambling....
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Sarah Palin has just resigned as Governor of Alaska

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Sarah Palin has just resigned as Governor of Alaska

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