Democrats & Healthcare plan is an oxymoron....read the post

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   TimTurnerposted 15 years ago

   Ok so I'm watching CNN this morning and they have 3 Democrats talking about the healthcare plan and how it's going to be great for Americans.
   
   They talked about ways they were going to pay for the plan and two of the ways contradict everything about the plan.
   
   They want to raise taxes by 40% for "Cadalliac" plans which are insurance plans that people buy that are premium and cost over $8,500 to purchase.
   
   Let me get this straight....This new healthcare plan will force people to buy insurance or get a stiff fine by the government BUT the government is saying that you can't get a GREAT plan or we'll tax you on that as well.  What???
   
   This healthplan is supposed to give more Americans insurance (by forcing them to buy it) yet you are going to tax people 40% more who HAVE a GREAT insurance plan???  Are you serious??  So we can have insurance but everyone has to have cheap or low-quality insurance.  Great, thanks Democrats.
   
   Then the plan is going to cut Medicare by about $400 million.  But then the Democrats on CNN said this morning that the Medicare benefits will actually increase with more after-care coverage for seniors that leave the hospital and need people to care for them at home and for people that need counseling afterwards.  What???
   
   How are you cutting $400 million in Medicare but their care will actually increase??  If their care increases, someone has to pay for it, right???
   
   Folks, this plan is going to cost a TON OF MONEY and it's clear Congress are just doing this for the "historic" tag rather than thinking it through.  Plus, Americans are 50/50 on it and most of us still have no idea what is in it.
   
   The Democrats are going to lose a lot of members in the mid-term elections.  It doesn't take a genius to figure that out.

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      shazwellynposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Dont worry.  It will just be like our NHS.  It is normal for us to pay National Insurance Contributions from our pay and no one begrundges it.  Our NHS saves lifes.  Our average life span is 6 years more than the u.s.a.  It will be a good thing... you wait and see.
      
      Us Brits moan about our NHS, but we wouldnt go back.  Thinking about it, us Brits just... errr... moan in general x

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         TimTurnerposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         This plan is nothing like European health care.  You guys have UNIVERSAL care.  We don't and will not under this plan.  We have to purchase our own coverage but if we get the best plan, we have to pay more taxes.
         
         There will still be about 11 million Americans without insurance with this healthcare plan.
         
         Our government is broke by $1.2 trillion and this new healthcare plan is going to cost another $1 trillion.
         
         The UK government is way more efficient at running a country.  Believe me.

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            shazwellynposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            LMFAO!  At least you had the opportunity to elect your leader!  Our one got where he is through default.  Gordon Brown was never elected by the people!
            
            I think your healthcare bill will start of as basic, but as time goes on it will evolve and change.  The NHS has been in operation for over 40 year!  That is a lot of change over the time. x

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            shazwellynposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            Deleted
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               tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this

               I understand your discomfort with the parilimentary system. Regarding the 'health'care bill, I believe that if it passes in anything like the form Pelosi, Reid, and The Obama want it will start horrible and "evolve" to completely unworkable.

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         sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         Thats not fair! You live longer because you are in cold storage!

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            Paragliderposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            Now, that one WAS funny!

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      MikeNVposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      The plan is going to put a stop to Insurance Companies denying coverage to those with pre-existing conditions.
      
      Mmmm okay.  And how much will the chronically ill person who is not eligible for coverage have to pay for the new mandated coverage?  And if they can't afford the coverage then what?
      
      I'm for health insurance for everyone... sure am.  But it has to be in a plan that serves the interests of everyone and divides the risk pool in an equitable fashion.
      
      Clearly this legislation is not what people want and like the Bailout is being forced down our throats.  Unfortunately all the Republicans can offer is criticism.
      
      Will there ever be a plan that works for everyone - NO!  Why?  Because the Government (Both sides are to blame) can not create any legislation that isn't ripe with pork.  Special interests control what is written into law... and all Politicians can be bought.
      
      Compromise on this issue will create a disaster.
      
      
      
      
      

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         Pr0metheusposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         "Politicians can be bought"
         
         A-fricking-men.  We're all screwed

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            A Texanposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            You just realized this?

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               Pr0metheusposted 15 years agoin reply to this

               Agreement != Realization

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   TimTurnerposted 15 years ago

   Does anyone else see the wrong thinking in this bill?

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   C.J. Wrightposted 15 years ago

   If you actually read the bill. The point is to move everyone off of private health insurance. Only "New" employees will be able to  enter a private insurance plan. If you company can no longer afford the current plan and switch to a new one....current employees will not be able to move over to it. They will be forced to go to a public plan. With that being said. The idea that you will pay for it with taxes on private plans makes absolutely NO SENSE!

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      livelongerposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Nonsense.

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   jreevesposted 15 years ago

   What cracks me up about the funding of this health care plan, is that Obama and et. el. have stated that billions will be saved by cutting inefficiencies in medicare and they want us to believe that this health care reform will be efficient.

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   fishtiger58posted 15 years ago

   I am really scared.

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      progressiveWiccanposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      HUH?
      SCARED OF WHAT? DO you have insurance or medicare then be happy, god forbid you have a stroke and no one to care for you, under todays medicare you are on your own. the future medicare hopefully will care for you in a facility without you having to sell all you own, should you not have longterm disability. I VISIT SAD PUBLIC NURSING HOMES EVERY TUESDAY. You need to be scared of those places that medicaid covers, once they make sure you dont have a dime.

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   Jane@CMposted 15 years ago

   For one, medicare scares me, will it even be around when I need it?  What about for those using it now?
   
   My hope is that:
   
   a) companies retain their health insurance for their employees & the employees continue to pay for it through the company.
   
   b) a health care plan that insures employed workers who do not have the benefit of getting insurance from their company, at a reasonable cost.
   
   In the state I'm in, we have AFDC, Medical Assistance, welfare and an insurance program for people who work but need health insurance because their company does not have health insurance benefits.  So basically everyone is covered, if they want to be.  We pay heavy taxes for all of this.  I worked at the Department of Human Services, I know how the welfare & AFDC programs work, in truth there are some people who want to find jobs, but over all, many are happy with their monthly checks, more babies, bigger checks.  They know how to work the system too.
   
   IMO - the current system needs to be fixed before they put a new one in place.  We had a huge program that PAID for AFDC mom's to go to school to get a 2 or 4 year degree, the program paid for daycare and transportation.  Very few took advantage of it, many couldn't because of illiteracy or second language issues.

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   Ralph Deedsposted 15 years ago

   Here's a good one!
   
   COBURN/VITTER PLAN GOES AWRY.... Sens. Tom Coburn (R-Okla.) and David Vitter (R-La.) no doubt thought they were being clever. They crafted an amendment that would force members of Congress to get their coverage through a public insurance plan, if the public option were included as part of health care reform. If it's good enough for American consumers, it should be good enough for their elected representatives, right?
   
   They had no idea how much Democrats agreed with the sentiment.
   
   As we talked about this morning, Sen. Sherrod Brown (D-Ohio) not only loved the idea, he wanted to join the right-wing senators as a co-sponsor on their amendment. When they refused -- this was supposed to be a conservative stunt, not a real idea -- Brown used procedural tactics to make himself a co-sponsor of the Coburn/Vitter measure, whether they like it or not.
   
   Then, Sen. Barbara Mikulski (D-Md.) said she, too, wanted to join. Soon after, Sen. Chris Dodd (D-Conn.) endorsed the Coburn/Vitter amendment and also asked to be a co-sponsor. "If we have a public option in this plan, as I hope that we will, I think there's nothing wrong in insisting that members of Congress be included in that public option proposal," Dodd said, calling the idea "wonderful."
   
   These guys are taking away all of Coburn's and Vitter's fun.
   
   Now, it's worth noting that the conservatives' measure isn't quite right. The point of a public option is choice -- consumers would be given a chance to select from a series of competing plans, choosing the one that works best for them. One of the options would be a public plan. The Coburn/Vitter amendment wants to take away lawmakers' choices and force them to get coverage through the public plan -- something that wouldn't happen to other U.S. consumers. Dems, in other words, want to give eligible Americans a choice, and these far-right Republicans want to take that choice away.
   
   But no matter. The fun part of this is that it's a stunt gone awry. Coburn and Vitter were probably whispering to themselves, "We'll show them." It didn't occur to them that Democrats would call their bluff.
   
   Source: an email from a "plugged in" friend.

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      Denno66posted 15 years agoin reply to this

      I'm not surprised.

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         XtineTheWriterposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         Tim, you have created quite a thought-provoking hub. Isn't it comforting to know that our government is expanding its  legislative horizons by creating a buy-or-go-to-jail health care policy? Is my assertion wrong? Hmmm, maybe I could speak more intelligently on the topic if the details of this secretive plan were shared with the American public.

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   Flightkeeperposted 15 years ago

   Well don't forget, Obama is so uninfluenced by lobbyists that he won't tax medical insurance plans for unions.

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      PrettyPantherposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      You mean health insurance plans for union workers.  And they're still being taxed, just later than was originally proposed in the plan. 
      
      Just thought you might want to have the facts.

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         Flightkeeperposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         Well who else would it be but the workers?  And why should they not be taxed at the same time like the rest of us? Why give them a reprieve?

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            PrettyPantherposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            Like I said, they ARE being taxed; you're the one who said they aren't, and you are mistaken.

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               Flightkeeperposted 15 years agoin reply to this

               No you're mistaken.  Obama has a deal with them that they don't have to pay taxes on their health plans until 2017.

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                  PrettyPantherposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                  Well, if they have to pay taxes starting in 2017, then they're being taxed.  Almost all of the taxes and provisions in the health care bill are set to take effect two or more years from enactment.  Your original statement was:
                  
                  "Well don't forget, Obama is so uninfluenced by lobbyists that he won't tax medical insurance plans for unions."
                  
                  Union workers will be taxed.

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   Flightkeeperposted 15 years ago

   
   
   OK my misunderstanding, I thought you had the facts.
   
   

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      PrettyPantherposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Obviously, I did.  And you just corroborated them in your earlier post.
      
      Have a nice evening!

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         Flightkeeperposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         Yeah if you say so. Good Night.

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