Is it time to replace the IRS with a true fair tax system?
Is it time to replace the IRS and current disproportionate tax system with a 1% charge on every commercial monetary transaction that creates equal contribution for all?
everyone will pay 1% based on every commercial transaction processed. this means that when $100 is spent by anyone, they will pay $1. This will then eliminate the differing percentage rates because there will be no deductions.
How much revenue will this 1 percent tax generate and who is going to administer the collection. Retail outlets that collect sales taxes for the state or city, get a percentage to cover the cost of collections.
Larry, businesses do get a collection fee for taxes...at least no business I've been involved with.
Larry, the same rules shall apply. According to the Constitution, the States are responsible for providing the revenue to the fed. It was only when more rich people lived in one state or another when the rules were changed to gouge the mid-class
We should repeal both the 1913 Amendment XVI and the creation of the IRS. The federal government should be constrained by it's narrow enumerated powers outlined in the Constitution and further limited by the 10th Amendment. If it were, we could easily survive on a flat/fair consumption tax with a "pre-bate" type of system included.
I agree. And the consumption tax must be applied to all commercial transactions. This includes all business transactions as well.
Do commercial transactions include purchasing a house from a company that build houses. Are you going to provide an exemption for charitable contributions?
Consumer tax...not at every level of production or you'd end up with more over taxation...
I would prefer to see a flat tax without any exemptions except for a prebate.
Mitch - please join the great group at http://truetax.ning.com/
When the term flat tax is used, is it the same as a national sales tax, or is it a value added tax, or a fixed amount on the transaction. You say no exemptions so we would tax hospital visits, surgeries and medicines?
correct. The True Fair Tax is assessed against all commercial transactions. no exceptions. the capital model for business would then require adjustment to eliminate all unnecessary transactions. the best would be direct from manufacturer or doer
The IRS just handles the paperwork, mostly. It is the law that determines what is fair or not, is that not true? They are a valid Government Agency...just because some clerk's made an error or the paperwork system got messed up is no need to replace the entire "company!" Someone has to collect taxes. Work on the system. Most good things are in place. IRS went on for many years. Maybe all the computer submitted returns was the cause. Check that out. Computer submitted taxes is something relatively new. People will just have to bear with the IRS until they get all the bugs out. I think that's all.
No, the problem with it's existence at all...this is not just about the current issues. There is no need for this agency to even exist if we had a flat/fair consumer tax.
And it does not merely do paperwork...it is an enforcement agency.
the rules of engagement interpreted by the IRS differ for each income structure. Corporations pay no tax, the poor pay no tax, so the country is funded by the middle class. 1% - a fair and equal amount. then, no computer needed. fifth grader pro.
Sorry. One percent won't do. If we want to enjoy all the benefits of living in a modern society where we basically hire governments (local and national) to do the work we won't or can't, a rate of 20% to 25% tax, regardless of where it comes from will always be necessary.
So far as the IRS is concerned, if Congress would ever get around to drastically simplifying the tax codes, that would make it a lot easier on taxpayers. The majority of taxpayers ought to be able to submit a tax return that requires one page to fill out. But don't look for this to occur in the near future.
As indicated by Walt Kienia, the IRS in and of itself is not the problem. The problem lies with Congress and the special interests they continually find it necessary to satisfy.
The problem is that we have abdicated personal responsibility to the government. We need to stop all the levels of bureaucracy and end the federal government's reach into things that it is not given the specific power to do by the enumerated powers.
I am pretty much in agreement with you, especially on the chance that this is unlikely to happen anytime soon.
1% equates to $12.5 trillion when calculated against all commercial transactions handled by the treasury department. by the way - this would include collecting 1% from every foreign contract where we do not collect funds today.
If you tax foreign government transactions, that tax is added to the retail price and it will be paid by the American Consumer. With no deductions, that tax becomes harder to accept.
It's time to do away with taxes altogether. Figure out another way forward.
We have sent men to the moon,figured out nuclear fission,split an atom and yet our society can't figure out a better system than taxing? Here's a clue US government, provide things we all need and can use like a US bank, US health insurance policies (not Obamacare,something profitable), US home and auto insurance policies and make them cheaper and better than what's offered.
But no,we won't do that because some lobbyist will cry like a baby and keep that from happening.Or the narrow minded and naysayers will whine that it can't be done. If our forefathers had the attitude our people in power have today we would still be a colony of England.
Are you proposing that we create a national bank, national health insurance, etc!? America does not need any more of these Socialist ideas. Please don't write in such an ignorant way.
The men sent to the moon were sent through the expenditure of tax dollars paid by the people of the country. Secondly, you will never convince me that the plan you offered could be operated efficiently by the Government.
America is a socialist country has been since the Roosevelt administration and if your against that I'm sure you will immediately relinquish your social security and medicare benefits
I, for one, would gladly give up all benefits like social security and medicare ect..as soon as the government returns all of MY MONEY that they took for those so called benefits!
have a great time - do some research at http://truetax.ning.com/
Brie: Do you want what you paid in Social Security Taxes, or do you also want what your Employer was required to paid. Had he not been required, my bet is that there would had been no pension to replace it. When the Dow fell, your SS was secured.
What you think is "fair" is from your point of view. It will not be the view of others however. There will always be those who say that their situation is different and deserves special treatment. Of those, the ones with the money to make bribes ... errr, campaign contributions of sufficient amounts will be the ones who get the breaks.
In any case, you still have another problem with your scheme, which is the definition of "commerical", "transaction", etc. In your mind, I'm sure these terms are well defined, but I can guarantee you that they are open for interpretation, just as are the terms "income", "deduction", etc. In the end, all you will have accomplished is the creation of boxes of rules and a huge bureaucracy to deal with them.
The True Fair Tax is applied on every commercial transaction handled by licensed companies. The system is currently operating by every state in the union as a sales tax. It would be 1% additional for the states to collect and forward to the feds.
A 1% tax is not going to be enough. Exemptions are not all bad. One exemption encourages savings in 401ks and IRAs. Another exemption encourages contributions to help the needy. All exemptions are not bad. When I made more I saved more and gave more.
Oh, I think so, especially in light of the IRS scandal going on now with them targeting certain people and groups in this country. I find what they did/doing revolting and certainly undemocratic. We just need to go to a flat tax in this county and be done with it. I even agree with what you are suggesting although I'm not sure I understand it completely. Yes, something that is equal contribution for all. Our tax code is so complicated and full of loopholes for those who know how to do that sort of thing. It's not fair that billionaires pay 15% taxes on their total income and teachers, other public workers, secretaries etc. pay as high as 28% of their income. That is just crazy. Thank's for asking this question and letting us vent!
This latest "scandal" is a molehill growing into an artificial mountain. It was one office, a few misguided employees. They tried to interpret uninterpretable regulations to make sure that non-profit applications were not actually political organiz.
thanks for your comment as well. I am working with a small group of concerned citizens who will be asking the next question - Are you prepared to join a group to demand a balanced budget and a 1% consumption tax system Constitutional amendments?
What do you mean by "fair" ? Fair is a relative term. Please define more.
If your question is the example above, I dont believe that would work to gain enough tax money or is that fair at all?
fair is a 1% consumption tax collected along with the sales tax on transactions. No exceptions. States collect it and deposit it in several accounts - 1 fed budget, 2 social security, 3 state welfare, 4 progressive profit refund to legal citizens.
YES...YES...and more YES! I have been for the Fair Tax for years. I am convinced that if more Americans would delve deeply into the meat of this issue and really educate themselves on the ABC's of the Fair Tax, they would clearly SEE that it is the system we should fight to have.
Just think this: Imagine coming home with a pay check worth every cent of your time and labor.....all your hours and efforts, actually being YOURS! Start there and I promise, it only gets better. Thanks for this question, taburkett!
It is past time to replace the IRS. With the recent revelations of the IRS targeting specific political groups to give advantages to one party over another I think there should be some criminal charges brought against them as well.
Recent revelations about the IRS amount to a mosquito bite. I once thought a flat tax was a good idea. You can get rid of the IRS and create the FTS, Federal Tax Service. Stores, credit cards track your spending habits. There will be no privacy.
Larry, your privacy disappeared when the government decided to protect the criminals rather than the law abiding citizens. Semper Fidelis
The IRS is an agency that administer the tax code as enacted by Congress. The agency does enact regulations use to implement the laws enacted by Congress.
Thus if you want a "fair tax system" the burden lies with Congress and not the IRS. You could eliminate the IRS, but there would have to be some agency to collect whatever taxes that are levied.
The problem is finding a fair tax. At one time, I supported a flat tax system. It is not fair to poor people. If the tax is 10 percent, a person making $20,000 is going to have to pay $2,000, leaving only $18,000 to support his family. A person making $100,000, will be left with $80,000 to support his family. It may sound fair on paper, but it really is not totally fair. Others support a value added tax, something like a national sales tax. Depending on the exemptions that may be included, such as food, medicines, insurance premiums, interest payments, car purchases, gasoline sales, etc, it could prove to be very burdensome on the poor. Also, many states have high sales taxes already. In my area, we pay 9 percent in sales taxes, with the exception of food and medicine, which is taxed at four percent and gasoline, which is taxed at 20 cent per gallon by the state and 14.4 cents by the federal government.
Our tax code is too complicated. It could be made a lot simpler by eliminating some exemptions, and changing the formulas for calculating the taxes as well as redesigning the tax form. The tax tables need adjusting. The personal income tax is the largest source of income for the nation, followed by the lease payments and royalties collected from offshore oil and gas production.
So the solution is to eliminate waste in government. I am 62 and I have been hearing that for at least 50 years.
We all use government services and governments have to levy taxes.
The problem or issue will not be easily solved.
The bottom line, I am not ready to replace the tax system, until someone comes up with something better and thus far, I have not seen anything that in the end is any fairer that what we have today. The poor make less and pay less in taxes. The rich make more and pay more. However, the rich have more opportunities to make use of some exemptions that exist today.
This is not an easy issue to resolve.
Ok,the fair tax would be say...20% but then you add on state tax,splost tax and soon it's 40% or more.
Thank you Larry for that! I also agree with your informative thorough answer!
Actually, trying to change the tax code will simply reveal the root cause problem, which is that our Congress people are bought and paid for by moneyed interests, and thus are not ultimately beholden to the citizens. Gets worse by the day.
Many different percentage rates have been discussed for the flat tax. However, all of those are ridiculous when looking at the affect on the poor. That is why we have identified the True Fair Tax as a 1% consumption tax for commercial transactions
For the record, no one has mentioned where property taxes would fall in this category regarding total taxes paid by the people When I got my severance check there is an IRS rule that requires a 25 percent withholding. Add, SS, etc. gov't kept 40%
No income taxation whatsoever! We did not have income taxation when our nation was founded and our Country grew and became a great nation. Our government implemented income taxation - temporarily, then stopped it, then brought it back. The problem with all "temporary" government measures is that most of them invariably become permanent. "Temporary" is a word used to ease laws into the system.
Our government would shrink with less collectable tax; that is a good thing. Our spending on military ventures would decrease; that is a good thing. We do not need to rule the world or finance corporate powers to maximize and maintain the wealth of the minority (and true) rulers of this Country.
Communities can tax themselves or raise money themselves. Any governing body, such as the IRS, given the ultimate power it possesses will and has abused its power to the detriment of the "little people" and to the advantage of the politically and corporate elite.
Maybe if Congress cut Congressional salaries and perks. Maybe if Congress legislated all members of Congress are prohibited from owning any interest whatsoever in any business venture/corporation/etc., so as to avoid all conflicts of interest and resultant bribes and insider trading and legislation benefiting - them. Maybe then, Congress could conduct efficient and effective and fair business. Raise funds to grow our nation. And not instead merely line their pockets with the average American's hard-earned money.
So do you also want to eliminate the gasoline tax that built the Interstate highway system..Something that work when our nation was young and not an international player will not work today.
A simple 1% consumption tax would have given us approx. $12.5 trillion for 2011. No deductions, no exceptions. Companies, Corporations, non-profits - everyone pays. everyone contributes equally to the security of the nation.
Yes. I think a national sales tax would be the solution. A just and fair amount for all. No more long and complicated paperwork and everybody would pay their fair share!
Christmas 2013 marks the 100th year of the beginning of the Federal Reserve System and the IRS which acts as the enforcement arm of the system.
The fact is the Federal Reserve System never was and is still is not a part of the Federal Government that the founding fathers began.
Even former Federal Reserve Chairman of the Federal Reserve System Greenspan said the government has no control over them.
Proof of this is obvious when congress cannot force them to tell congress what they did with all the money they were given by congress to quote "stabilize the economy"
The rabbit hole of the system hides who controls the system.
The stockholders of this Private Corporation and it's twelve Central banks are the ones who really control the government and not the other way around.
If, you think about it and have been around long enough to know the truth.That all wars Americans were involved in were paid for through the tax system and funded by the banks that built the military industrial complex of Corporations that made those who own stock in them very wealthy.
It's "FAIR" to say that true patriots are those who want to prevent war rather than start them for profit and stopping this system that is now worldwide from creating a NWO based on the system designed to control the world through force and depopulation while at the same time making a profit at it.
The Oligarchy which is shared gov control through multiple government systems not unlike regional government where power is shared.However there always is a small group that controls the many rather than the other way around.
Hence this is why we have a constitution based on "WE THE PEOPLE"
Also why we have a REPUBLIC RATHER THAN A DEMOCRACY.
In a REPUBLIC all the people have more than one way to make their vote count rather than just once.
1. At the polls where they cast their votes
2. In a jury system where they judge the law as well as those charged with a crime
3. In a Grand jury where they can determine whether the evidence exists for a trial in a capital crime.
In a simple Democracy we only have one vote and if that vote is only a simple majority rather than a two thirds majority than it's likely that almost half the people would be discontented with the outcome and have no way to effectively protest the law if they see it as unfair or suppressing them in some way they disagree with.Which of course has led to civil unrest in the past.
Change does not come easy.
One has to have compassion.
change is never easy. but "We the People" must work together to accomplish the elimination of the IRS through the simple True Fair Tax - 1% based on consumption. States collect it with their sales tax and forward to the fed. equally fair to all.
Absolutely, it is time to get rid of the IRS, and go to a 5% Flat Tax Rate for ALL including corporations and small businesses. NO deductions or “special write offs” for the rich, corporations or small businesses! The fix all for our national budget is stop giving money to other countries, especially those that hate us, stop all immigration until our country is financially healed and US Citizens are back to work… Bring all outsourced work back into our country or enforce heavy penalties, fines, and import fees for companies who refuse to bring jobs back and continue to outsource. Finally, all levels of government (federal/state) need to start living on a budget! Less government, less government employees equals financial stability.
Too many transactions already happen outside of tax and business reporting. Black market activity would just likely increase as a result. What we need is a system that is not so punitive that it encourages people to maneuver around and outside of the system. The other problem is if you replace the IRS, who will regulate the collection of the system that is replacing the income tax. You would now need to create another large Federal agency to replace the one you already have. The states would never have the resources to administer something of that magnitude.
The only sensible system is a flat tax on income treating all income the same, regardless of whether or not it is earned, investment, or interest. Setting a flat tax rate should be consistent with the current rates collected on an effective basis. The benefit is more in line with eliminating great inefficiencies in the current system. We spend way too much time and resources on tax compliance both from a personal and a corporate perspective. The actual tax revenue collected as a share of GDP is and has been for the last century, about 15-20% of GDP. So a rate in that range with no deductions would eliminate a great degree of wasted resources, and be very pro-growth from an economic perspective. At the same time, the revenue paid as a share of economic activity would be no different. We would simply be devoting valuable resources to more productive use.
the best elimination of wasted resources is a consumption tax collected by the states with the sales tax for every transaction. no IRS necessary. no special magic math for corporate books. no deductions. flat as it can be.
Unfortunately the states don't have the resources in their budget to address something of that scale. They can barely keep up now. And that would be a gold mine for organized crime. I'd be buying just about everything out of the back of the truck.
fortunately the states do not require additional resources to adapt the True Fair Tax of 1%. The current system would permit the direct deposit of such collection without additional manpower. It is the easiest of the Fair methods to work. a win-win
Not likely. The money would still have to go to the us treasury, which would require federal compliance with treasury policies. They'd be handing down all kinds of red tape. No matter what the Feds are a dominant force and inneficient.
simplification is a very difficult abstract for tyrannical personalities to comprehend. Therefore, our federal government has much difficulty in seeking and achieving simplicity. However, owners (legal citizens) of the nation envision it easily
I agree. Additionally, your idea would require a constitutional amendment which is unlikely. That's why I favor the flat income tax, which would be easier to implement. But won't likely happen either.
many people want to describe exceptions or deductions for taxation - however, the True Fair Tax does not contain any. it is designed to provide equality for every person, company, corporation, non-profit, government agency, foreign entity, that is party to a commercial transaction.
it will take a concerted effort by true Patriotic Citizens to install an amendment to the Constitution for the True Fair Tax. Within this amendment, the wording must also demand that any future changes to the tax system must be voted upon by the owners of the nation (Its legal citizens).
under the True Fair Tax, the nation would not be required to accept any foreigner for citizenship because the foreigners would pay the same tax while working or residing within the country.
a citizen of this nation is created when the infant is born to citizens of the nation. the infant then does not become a voting citizen until they reach the age of 18.
therefore, for a foreigner to become a citizen, they should reside legally in the nation for 18 years paying the True Fair Tax during that entire period.
all education, health, etc. costs will be the responsibility of the employer and the foreigner. a foreigner that becomes a citizen shall accumulate social security for 65 years after becoming a citizen before they are eligible to receive any retirement through social security.
the Patriots of the nation must work hard to restore the republic that was created for us.
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