What should Christians do when gays try to force them to do something against th

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   Cassie Smithposted 11 years ago

   What should Christians do when gays try to force them to do something against their beliefs?
   
   We've recently had several cases of Christians who are bakers, photographers, innkeepers, etc who refuse to bake cakes, take wedding pictures, or host weddings when it concerns homosexuals because it's against their religious beliefs and the gays are using local government to force them. What should they do?  I say they should bake bad cakes, take crappy pictures, and decorate the hall in uncoordinated colors.  What are your suggestions?

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   Old Poolmanposted 11 years ago

   I would suggest they stand their ground based on their personal beliefs.  Local government should not be able to force any business to serve customers they do not wish to serve.  If forced to do so, I would set the price so high they would be looking elsewhere.

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      junksellerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      So, you'd be fine with a gay business owner refusing a Christian, or a pacifist refusing an old white guy in an NRA hat? How about a Muslim refusing unveiled women? Or a liberal refusing someone wearing a tea party shirt?

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      Old Poolmanposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      And you would be fine with local government dictating to business owners what they may and may not do?

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      junksellerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      You didn't answer the question. I'm fine with the government enforcing laws which represent the will of the people. I would agree the same if it was a gay baker being punished for not baking a cake for a Christian couple.

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      Old Poolmanposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I believe by risking everything they own, a business owner should have the right to operate their own business as they see fit.  My only gripe is local government being involved with private business.

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      junksellerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      The public has rights as well, as codified by laws enacted through their representatives. One such right is having an equitable public market. If  a business chooses to operate in the public market they accept being bound to that.

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      Old Poolmanposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Junkseller, having owned and operated several small business operations, I respectfully disagree with you.  I sometimes refused to do business with individuals just because I didn't think it would be a good relationship.

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      junksellerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      As a general principle, I don't disagree with you, I just think that there is a particular harm and danger when that refusal is based upon someone being black, or a woman, or gay, or a Christian for that matter.

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      Old Poolmanposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I would agree with your last comment.

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   christiananrkistposted 11 years ago

   I think we are to be good ambassadors for chirst, so I would advise against doing those things. Christians already look bad enough because of our beliefs. I think if we are to be taken seriously and respected the thing to do would just to stand our ground like Elane Photography and suffer the consequences should they come. I know this is obviously easier said than done, but I believe its whats modeled for us from the apostles and early church.

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      Cassie Smithposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      It's an interesting point that you make.  Christ himself who did not want to kowtow to the state paid for it with his life.  It is amazing to me that an individual Christian will be persecuted for their belief in the USA in the 21st century.

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      christiananrkistposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      very true. Funny how people criticize Christians for thinking they're right in their views and for speaking out against what they think is unethical. Yet when others speak out against Christianity they are courageous. interesting society we live in.

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   FatFreddysCatposted 11 years ago

   Gay peoples' money is just as green as anyone else's money. If these Christians want to turn away business, that's up to them... But it may come back to bite them later.

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      Cassie Smithposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Freddy, it's not a question about the money, it is a question of the individual being forced to perform a service that does not agree with their belief.  Would the state force a Christian to bake a cake for a Satanist event?

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      FatFreddysCatposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      It's just cake. Sheesh.

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      Old Poolmanposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      The real question is should local government be allowed to force a small business to serve customers they do not wish to do business with.  I think that is far above the power and authority of local government.

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      CalebSparksposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Right, Old Poolman. Government is definitely overstepping its authority.

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      Cassie Smithposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Freddy, if it was just about the cake, then why did the gays not go to another baker?  Are Christians the only bakers around?

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      FatFreddysCatposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      If your business' purpose is to serve the public, that "public" includes gay people, Satanists, witches, Trekkies and everyone else, like it or not.. You don't have to agree with them. So either deal with it, or get out of that business.

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      Old Poolmanposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Freddy - One of the perks of owning your own business is being your own boss.  There are rights that come with this and no government should tell you whom you are required to serve.  That is the point of this whole thing.

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   Darrell Robertsposted 11 years ago

   I have friends who are gay and I do my best not to hold anything against anyone as long as they are not trying to harm any other. I am also not a Christian, However, I do not think the government should force a person to serve another person if the person is taking a stand based on their religious principles. 
   
   I do not think that Christians should have to serve a person that they do not want to if their business is a privately owned business.  Who I want to serve is my business. If I had a private business, I would not want the government to dictate anything to me about my customer service desires.
   
   Best wishes to all.

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   Rain Defenceposted 11 years ago

   Well if you have your own business you can do whatever you want to do and turn away anyone you want. I have my own business and when I don't want to do a job for whatever reason, I don't do it.
   
   If anyone is forced into doing a job they don't want to do, they're going to do a crappy job. When I used to have to make tea when I was younger, I used to deliberately make a crappy cup of tea, so I wasn't asked to make it any more!
   
   As a business owner though, the idea of turning someone down because they're gay is ridiculous to me though, money is money. But then I'm not one of these people that believe that the earth is less than 10000 yrs old and people just popped into existence when some god somewhere waved a magic wand. Those sort of people generally are illogical anyway in my view, so it doesn't surprise me too much when they act illogically in the running of their business.

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      Old Poolmanposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I agree with you.  The decision to turn away business is strictly up to the business owner.  Most business owners don't do this except in extreme cases because they need the income.

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   IDONOposted 11 years ago

   Let's see. "Christian". Christ like.  Would Jesus Christ alienate these people? Did he alienate the prostitute? NO! These people aren't asking for a handout. They are willing to support your business and your resentments will put your business straight into the dumpster and you can't blame them.
        There's always that saying. " What would Jesus do?" If you aren't willing to try, to the best of your ability, to follow that in all your affairs, you shouldn't call yourself a Christian.
        God blessed you with a business. He didn't do that for you to pass judgement on your patrons. Serve these people as customers; not as gays. Be grateful for their business, then pray for them.  Don't squander the blessing that God gave you by picking and choosing your customers by whether they believe the same way you do or not.

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   BuffaloGal1960posted 11 years ago

   I don't think bad service would be effective - ever as it would reflect on you.
   I also think local gov force is a crock and needs to mind it's own business.
   
   I don't know how I would handle the situation because I have not been faced with it.
   
   If I was an ordained minister, I definitely would not marry them.  Other issues, I'm not sure.  But I do know, I would not present myself in a rude manner.

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