Should Christians waste their time debating with unbelievers?
Yes. Humble. I see what you mean. The humbleness is overwhelming.
Suits me if you guys keep your ridiculous beliefs to yourselves - in fact - please do.
Thanks.What a selective pile! I did not, would not ever say that my god is better than your god, and you deliberately misquoted me. That's twice you have done that.
As for supporting children, and feeding the starving, you assumed I do not contribute which is a lie.
As for having the arrogance to state that your god has fed the starving, if there was a god there wouldn't be any starving children.
The megalomania? You have made the case for me, so I need say no more on that!
Read your own post.Or better still get a psychologist to explain to you what it is you miss in what you say.Really? Hard evidence and rigor has nothing to do with it?
Oh please, if the truth bit you in the A$$, you wouldn't know the difference, unless you are pretending now.
Agreed...
Wonderful reminder to me by the way.. Thank you.- Yup - reminds me of why I despise religionists every time he sez wot god sed - innit.
Little wonder your religion causes so much misery. Good for you Victor - fight for wot Jeebus sed.
No morals. None.
Your problem, not a problem for those who are believers.
What's a "true believer" in religion? The definition would be someone who believes in the same religion you do?
Not at all! My beliefs change in the light of further knowledge.
Who would not want to avoid pain and live forever?
Even one iota of evidence for the sky fairy in the last 2,000 years would be enough to make me question my beliefs.
Religiosity is an illness Jerami.
It is evident in the conclusions drawn by those superior thinkers who believe in the fairy tale.
I have explained here in the past the whole psychological process as it is understood today, and all I got as a reply was more "truth" from the good book. Unrelated of course!
I have never seen an honest attempt to answer Mark or any of the other non-believers here with anything that amounted to more than "god dunnit."
Whats absolutely charming about that is how believers will preach those words from the mountain tops all the while shrugging off the responsibility of preaching them and tossing it over to their god because they are gods words, not their own. And then to top it all off, agree wholeheartedly that the words are true, so go right ahead and keep on preaching them. Hallelujah!
That is because it is a bronze aged myth, not reality. It tears itself apart.
Why is it then, Dave, that the duty of believers fails miserably in trying to show their god is real? You've never accomplished that once as far as I've seen.
Show me your god is real, Dave, and I will join you in your beliefs.
Well Dave, my understanding is that you have a personal relationship with your god. Is there any reason why you couldn't simply ask him to reveal himself to me? Think of the consequences of that, Dave. You wouldn't have to read a single post of mine criticizing your religion, in fact, you would have successfully made a convert.
Is there any problem with making that request to your god, Dave?Wouldn't it be obvious? He would come to me and say that he is god. Simple.
Evidently, he does have that problem as many have sought him out only to find nothing.
Again, please ask him to reveal himself to me. If he is who you say he is, then he will make it clear to me and I will have no problem with that.
Perhaps Dave, you may have the wrong idea about those who don't accept any of the various belief systems. Many of them would be quite happy if indeed a god revealed himself to them, they would immediately recant their atheism and would wholeheartedly join that faith. No problem.As would many others. Who doesn't want a free ride with answered prayers and eternal life as opposed to being burnt in hell?
That shouldn't matter in the least for an all-powerful god to take on any form he wishes. Let him take on a form of "spirit" - it really doesn't matter, if he is a god he will know what to do to make me realize he exists.
He must have revealed himself to you, Dave, or else you wouldn't be so adamant he exists. Why can't he do the same for others who wish to know he exists?
I think you're just making excuses, Dave.
There is no reason to prove that God exists.
Prove He doesn't.
life = intelligence
dead stuff = no life. no intelligence. no chance of life.
Pratonix
Your assumption is specious and portrays you as being as being ignorant in ref. the use of English and quite possibly a fool.
I'll try to enlighten you in ref. to to your use of the words "argue and debate."
I'm almost sure that this will "swish" right over your head, but I'll give it a try.
Here we go:
"Debate" is to engage in argument by discussing opposing points.
"Argue" is to attempt to prove by reasoning.
What is the purpose of "debate?" It is, of course, to prove a point with proofs and thereby, win!
That would indicate that to "win" a debate (argument) one must provide proofs!
How can a "debate" be won if what is being debated cannot be defined, except as "opinon," and ergo, no proofs can be provided pro or con?
To debate religion would be, to me, an exercise in futility and only a "fool" would be involved.
Are you a fool? If you "debate" religion, of course you are!:
QwarkI think it's great to have debates about religion, it keeps everyone's mind focused on God whether or not they believe.
Hey!
Are christians "fools?"
Is that what yer saying?
Only a "fool" would "debate" religion!
I don't think ya thought this question out before ya posted it.
But then it would seem to be expected of a religious fundie who's realism resides within the bindings of a tome of fairytales named the bible.
Hmmm?:
Qwark
This I completely agree with. No they shouldn't. I think it is a bigger waste of their time than ours.
A shower is always nice,
The shave, that's the rugged look. How ever some people can't carry it off very well.
LOL In my opinion, he is still nice to look at..
-
It is a good thing we all have different opinions. If not, some people would never have any one.
SJW posted;
[ Thank you, but those were past difficulities. They didn't all happen at once. My family took turns having problems. ]
You're very welcome. I was trying to get my point across while 'tap dancing,' as I didn't want you to think I thought the maladies were a good thing.
[ I don't blame God for what happened. ]
Whether you blame God, or not, is your affair. The verse flat states the inequities were the 'will of God' and you were to give thanks for them.
I wouldn't have written anything along those horrible lines.
We all have the tendency to be beaten up by the 'School of hard knocks' called life.
Confucius say; "School of hard knocks leave rough edges."
Accidents, electrocution, chipped bones, dislocations, motorcycles, automotive high speed impact, massive amounts of damage, almost drowning more than once. Was dying once and another time wouldn't have seen another sunrise. Emergency surgery and a whole passel of other things Docs says would have killed anyone else. [shrug]
I joke the 'Grim Reaper's' visited me several times and I've told him to 'Go to Hell,' and he's off to Washington, D.C..
Manure occurrith. This body's well beyond trashed. Amazing anything works. Still I have lots of fun and expand my horizons.
Wrote my first hub a couple of days ago.
I'm hoping to finish a copy of a full size master work 20 x 30 inches in a week, or so. Its in oil paint.
As you can see, I too, keep on keeping on.I joke the 'Grim Reaper's' visited me several times and I've told him to 'Go to Hell,' and he's off to Washington, D.C.. big_smile
Oh, I see. So, that's your fault! Why didn't ya send him some where else?
(joking)
Yeah, we have all been thru the mill. Sounds like you have had more than your share. What's important now is that you have gotten thru it. Right?
(No, I'm not going to preach.)
Painting? Do you sell your art work, or hobby?
I am glad to hear that you are doing well now, and I will get over and read your hub.Heh. It was decades ago I sent the Grim Reaper, but he wouldn't stay long. So, t'warnt me.
It's important to my family and I that I made it through. There's a whole lot of Xians who complain about it {not you}.
Yeah, I've been through the 'meat grinder' several times. Not fun, and not something I'd wish on my worst enemy.
I've won awards for my artwork at the two county fairs I'm qualified to enter for several years. However, I've not tried to sell my art work. Having people see them in the county fairs suffices for me.
I posted the oils on canvas board "Cherry on Board" in the 'where are you from' type of artist area.
I maintain, but by no means am I in good shape. I sleep a lot.
If interested I can post a couple examples of my work here, as I'm not trying to sell anything.
Agreed so I post inspirational videos ;-)
Emotions are physical in nature and based on the biochemical makeup of our bodies. They are not spiritual at all.
Your belief that emotions are spiritual is not correct. That should be reason enough to question your other beliefs, However, as you say, you're entitled to embrace false beliefs.Yes, it does. Those emotions are all physical in nature, no "spirits" required. Biology 101.
Perhaps not, but it can measure the chemical states of the brain and explain the psychological aspects, while offering statistical evidence of our altruistic nature to our offspring.
No offense intended - but all that shows is your lack of understanding of the relationship between your body and your mind. I can spot a depressed or angry person from a good distance away based on their physical demeanor and there are all sorts of emotions expressed by the body.
You may not have developed an understanding or awareness of this - I suspect because you already have all the answers and I find many professed Christians to be unable to understand the concept that the body is your temple as they usually seem very concerned about building a bricks and mortar one - but - trust me - your body "feels" and expresses all the emotions that your mind does.
How happy are your taste buds (body) when you have a first taste of a fresh strawberry and how "happy" does that make your spirit (mind)"feel"?
But you ignore this in favor of imagining something that justifies your irrational belief system. Why?
stilljustwonderinposted 22 hours agoin reply to this
"Yes, it is a "faith" thing. I understand that some people are more scientifically minded. If ya can't "see" it, ya can't believe it. "
Without objective supporting evidence there's no reason to consider the assertion valid.
Unsupported assertions are overpriced at a penny per million.
What's worse is the Creator concept fails under its own broken logic, amongst other things.
"My belief is more of the spiritual nature. The spirit can't be examined with the eye, touched with the hand. It can't be measured with scales, micrometers, or calipers. But we each do have a spirit. That is where our emotions are."
I've no problem with the way you see things. Why should I? You're not exporting them to objective reality or expecting others to accept them.
"I have been asked many times to prove there is a God. I can't produce a picture."
You've nothing to prove. Such is your personal stance.
"God is spirit. That's the emotion thing again. I have experiences I can tell, of course that is really nothing I can prove even tho I know they are real. "
Sight nitpik. Belief, no matter how strong, do not equate to objective reality. I suspect you're indicating that to you they are real. In such a way I've no argument with. The problem is the penchant for Xians to bait and switch and redefine words. Please note that I'm not accusing you of that.
"That is how I reason. I went thru it, it is my reality. Our experiences is what make us who we are. If they are good experiences we take them and embrace them.
I can discuss my faith with any one who wishes to discuss, maturely. I don't want to argue about it. We are each entitled to our own belief. We all need to respect that."
No argument from me. As a matter of fact, I fully support you. It's Xians like you I have great respect for.
Please note the postal tonal change from many of my posts and reference the reasons for it. So much for me being 'Anti-Christian' or 'Mad at the Lord' or other such projective excuses.
What can be interesting is to explore the theistic journey. No defense of anything required as its an exploration of a personal journey.
Please note I neither expect such or am asking for such.
People like you are a positive force for Xianity.
Religion can be a beautiful thing. Too bad its major use is destruction. That avenue invalidates everything those Xians present.
You may agree with me, or not. Either way is your prerogative.
Kind Regards and a tip-o-the-hat :wave:Well. You have made this woman speechless. Do you believe in miracles now? LOL
Yes, I have read some of your other post. I thought you sounded angry and that anger was directed towards Christians. I had assumed some one had pushed you too hard. When I first saw your reply to me my first thought was, Oh No, not him. I was surprised and very pleased to see it wasn't an attack, but a discussion.
I will have no problem discussing my journey with you if you would like to hear it. If not, that's ok too. I know my story can be unbelievable to those who doesn't share my faith.
Any way, I do thank you for your post. I was touched, and honored.
Ok, I wasn't totally speechless. So, a small miracle?stilljustwonderin;
[Well. You have made this woman speechless. Do you believe in miracles now? LOL]
Heh. No.
[Yes, I have read some of your other post. I thought you sounded angry and that anger was directed towards Christians. I had assumed some one had pushed you too hard.]
It was directed to those individual Christians, but it had nothing to do with their being Christians. It had everything to do with their *actions.* That is the difference.
Consider taking another look at a past reply of mine, which explains things, to you. Its gentle and accurate.
Now look at one of the 'angry' posts. Look to see why the response is different. What is the motivator/driver generating the sharp response.
From what I've seen of the other non-believers their complaint is Xians who refuse to keep their religion as the internalized precious private thing it should be. In effect, they're treating their religion worse than 'a penny in a parking lot' and I've very vocal about pointing that out.
If a Christian has a question they should ask and not tell me what my position is. When told they've my position wrong and refuse to correct their mistake-I will nail them on it. If they continue then the jeering starts. Its all treating them with the same lack of courtesy they show others.
Another mistake is the constant assumption those who don't believe don't know anything about Christianity [or 'Paulinity'].' Such is followed up with a refusal to listen and degenerates to 'blaming the victim.' Of course, the other individual is going to protest!
What would your reaction be to being lied about, misrepresented, and then blamed for the actions of the oppressor {speaker}?
[When I first saw your reply to me my first thought was, Oh No, not him. I was surprised and very pleased to see it wasn't an attack, but a discussion.]
You put it into a discussion mode via your approach. Such is what I consider to be 'exploration mode.' That can be fun.
[I will have no problem discussing my journey with you if you would like to hear it. If not, that's ok too. I know my story can be unbelievable to those who doesn't share my faith.]
Sure. I've no problem with discussing your journey. I find it interesting to see how a person arrived at a certain point. Such is something I would never ask about as that is your personal business.
Gee, now you see how 'ferocious' I really am
[eyes dance]. ggggggggggrrrrrrrrrrrrr. Heh.
[Any way, I do thank you for your post. I was touched, and honored.
Ok, I wasn't totally speechless. So, a small miracle? ]
Sure, if it makes you feel better.
Now, if you'll excuse me I must rest. -'beam out'-SJW posted;
[ I do understand what your saying I do think that some times it goes both ways. ]
Of course.
[ I have seen post by Christians on here and I can't believe what I am reading. I have had disagreements with Christians on here too. I have read some pretty self rightious, judgmental, condescending posts made. ]
Yep, and they're being shown the same discourtesy and contempt they show others. I've found the posts by Christians you find unbelievable to be mind numbingly common.
It's the posts by Christians like you I find uncommon.
[ On the other hand, I have been in a conversation with other Christians and suddenly a non believer starts calling me foolish, ignorant. Why? ]
Quite often the person was a theist enraged at the years of betrayal, the years of lies, and rampant hypocrisy. The depths of such reaction can be astounding. It can take years to work through it all.
[ Just because I believe differently? I have had a non believer trying to bait me into telling them that they are going to hell. I am not their judge. ]
[ We are all entitled to our beliefs. I respect that. My faith is precious to me, as a non believers right to not have faith is precious to them. ]
Your beliefs are your own, yes. You demonstrate your faith is precious to you. Other Christians treat their faith with less value than the penny in a parking lot.
My lack of faith is merely that. There's nothing 'precious.' Theism is merely one of many things I lack belief in. It has no importance and its not something I think about until some theist {not you} brings it up and insists its objective reality and/or that the tenets of said religion apply to me. *That* is when you see me take the steps which had your cringing. Its the actions of those specific Christians which are being shredded.
[ You asked me what I would do if some one lied about me, misrepresented me. Actually that happened to me not very long ago. I called all parties involved and told them the truth. Then, that night when I said my prayers I asked God to forgive the person who told the lie. ]
Sorry it happened, but I see you followed your faith in resolving the issue. Well done.
[ If you would like to read something that confirmed my faith I wrote a hub about an experience. I understand you may try to rationalize it, make some since of it. Just know, that even if it makes you think that I am crazy, that it is the truth. ]
I'll take a look another day, although you may have to remind me. Crazy? Not at all. Such would be how you reacted/came to terms with something. That the resolution worked for you is what's important, in my view.
[ I try to put myself in other peoples shoes and think how they would feel. Please do that. Put your self in my shoes and imagine if that happened to you. Knowing, that your not crazy. Maybe then you can understand how I can believe so strongly in someone I can not see. ]
Oh, I do understand. Its not foreign to me, as I would have thought you'd have realized by now. And, no, indicating you didn't realize it isn't a negative. Its more along the lines an area many Christians don't think to consider.
[ I hope you rested well and feel great. Have a nice day! ]
Thank you, and you as well. I sleep a lot as driving my body like this takes a lot of energy.Stoney posted
It's the posts by Christians like you I find uncommon.
I am sure you will read post by me that you will shake your head at. We do have different beliefs. I'm sorry, but I do not see air. Yeah, I'm not scientifically minded. My views are really rather simple.
My lack of faith is merely that. There's nothing 'precious.'
Your "right" to not have faith is precious, no? Not the lack of faith, but the right to choose.
.
It has no importance and its not something I think about until some theist {not you} brings it up and insists its objective reality and/or that the tenets of said religion apply to me
The thing is, it is a reality to us. My faith is real to me. How ever, no one should try to push their faith on another. It doesn't work that way. Like when a deacon nagged my husband into going up to the alter. He actually pushed him away. Some Christians need to see that. Some know it, some don't.
I'll take a look another day, although you may have to remind me. Crazy? Not at all. Such would be how you reacted/came to terms with something
Are ya sure? I know you have read it. LOL That's ok. I think that is one of the times that you would have to be in my shoes. I warned ya!
Get some rest.Ah, but you can see air. Dust and sand storms. Dust devils, hurricanes, tornadoes, cyclones, twisters. Air carrying dandelion seeds, smoke, rainbows, sunsets and such.
Again, your views are your own. Do I agree with them? It would be a case of sometimes yes, sometimes no.
I can no more believe in the xian superstition than I can physically flap my arms and fly cross-country. There's no 'choice' involved.
The freedom *from* religion aspect protects xians from other superstitions.
Your faith is *real* to you, yes. The point is whether one's faith is a precious private matter or is it being forced upon those outside the faith. The latter are those I challenge and dissect.
I did read your hub, but it was well after the post you responded to. I did 'recharge my batteries', and thank you.
Should Christians waste their time debating with unbelievers?
NO, I don't thing they should.
What would the church lady say?
Yes, exactly. No one agrees 100% with any one. We can still respect each other. We can agree that we can disagree.
OH NO! Did we agree?
No need to argue in a creation science fair...
Should Christians waste their time debating with unbelievers?
Actually, any Christian who debates their faith are not actually debating their faith, they are defending their faith, because they argue from a lower position than the unbelievers.
Christians argue from a faithful position supported by just faith and nothing else. Therefore, they have to defend their faith.
Faith isn't something to project forth, it's a defensive position.
Truth and facts are the only thing to project forth and no Christian can claim facts or truth, because their faith is based solely on assumption and nothing more.
Enough said, argue amongst yourself. That's the truth.Indeed it is the truth!
Love rules!
Religion and religious megalomania have nothing to do with love!I have a few dead cold VB's Kanga, there ya go, get that inya!
Bewdy mate, to your health and to the Republic Of Melbourne
Should we resuscitate the thread?
- sandra rinckposted 14 years ago
0- I must say that would be a new experience!
- brotheryochananposted 14 years ago0
You seem to feel they are important enough to keep defending your faith to the point of misrepresenting all who do not hold your ridiculous belief in the sky fairy.
- I can't resist a bargain, OK I'll run the old ute on LPG.
Satanic whispers??????????????????????????????
People who don't cop your rot are satanic whisperers???????????
You're a riot! Please! I'll hurt myself. You are hurting yourself anyway, so laugh away Earnest, laugh until you cease to exist.
Is that another way of showing love?
You keep accidently showing who you really are and how your "love" works.
Just another hate filled religionist eh?!
just_curious - I don't think you're blind to my point at all. I think you're truly and honestly exploring your beliefs. That's admirable.
I've just chosen after years of being put on the defensive to actually follow the sound advice that I've been given about not "arguing" or "debating" religion and politics. I said in another forum post that I had taken my turn in the forums here in the beginning, but chose to abstain after I saw the viciousness with with BOTH sides chose to treat each other.
I don't have room for that. Insults, name-calling, condescending attitudes, and just flat out cruelty make my heart hurt. I read a LOT of what goes on in here, just don't respond often. Mostly because it all becomes about creating a fictional biography of the person to whom you're responding and then attacking them based on what you THINK they believe and how you THINK they've come to believe it.
Post on, sister! Your skin is thick enough to handle it, and that's what makes the difference for you!
Just a quick edit, or apology, rather. Someone did, in fact mention the "shake the dust from your feet" thing. I think it was Judah's daughter. I didn't read through the entire thread before I posted.
What a great post! I'll let that one rest on it's own merit too!
This one is particularly funny. He doesn't understand his book, pretends he is not speaking for himself (he speaks for god) and says he hates me and you, because he thinks we are satan's minions. I don't recall the guy he has a "personal relationship with" saying anything about hating everyone who disagrees with you.
No wonder the Romans used to feed them to the lions. Imagine what these guys were like when they had to be in your face to tell you this garbage. Anything for a bit of peace and quiet.
It really is a sad, disgusting religion. They do not see why they cause so much ill will though. Blinded by Jesus and inured to their ability to cause offense. Really sad.
But, Cecilia! The fact that you think rubbish is rubbish is absolute rubbish! lol
You mean the thinkers who have seen your hostility and disagree with your personal version of the fairy in the sky?
You hate. Most disbelievers don't seem to enjoy that, or your version of the biggest pile of psychotic crud ever written.
The biblical god could walk under a carpet and not leave a bump!
It becomes more noticeable with time. Not one single response to any questions or queries, just ..... god dunnit! then a pile of "the word"
Brain dead stuff!
Yes - I agree - if that is what makes you feel superior - you should do so.
My name means "warrior" or "consecrated in the name of the god of war - Mars" - so - yes - your laughable religion took my name and LOL called it a LOLOL 'Christian name.'
Gawd - do you guys read any other book than the Babble?
It is a shame really.
And I do not want Christ thanks - at least not if you are any example to go by. Love it that you think praying will get me to stop thinking and become uneducated overnight. You think you can get god to make me forget where your irrational belief system was stolen from? I already "had christ" Then I grew up and learnt how to reason.
As not one prayer has been answered in 2,000 years after billions of prayers I would say this myth is busted.Despite all the claims by religionists, which would amount to a billion or so prayers per day, I would say as not one has ever been verified that this myth is totally busted.
Of course the premise that there is an invisible fairy does alert some to learn how to recognise the difference between fact and fantasy.
Hi Earnest!
How goes you?
Bye Earnest!
Enjoy your day....
Did you know I feel like we're two ships passing in the night (rather, day/night)?Hello Beth. Early arvo here, soon time to pick the toddler up from kinder and one from prep school. 2 home sick. I am also sick, but have to keep going with a smile.
Not so hard to do though!
I hope you have a great evening.
You would call that proof?
Self professed truth maybe!
Proof requires a hell of a lot more than a pile of psychotic garbage that came from the hordes who came before them, then re-written by a bunch of old goat herders and confirmed by no one except themselves. After that it was moulded and remoulded to suit the political agenda of another bunch of old lunatics.
Hardly proof of anything other than modern man's ongoing stupidity.No, prayer changes nothing! You think the starving children of the world somehow aren't as worthy of food as you are.
He is too busy finding your car keys to help the sick poor and undernourished?
You can't have it both ways. If he answers your prayers but ignores the destitute then you must be better than they are eh?
What sort of an omnipotent entity would think like that?
Sick, terribly sick!
As for laughter, you should hear it!
Your sick sky fairy doesn't fill me with fear as it does some!
You typically did not address the points made though!
It is written in the "good book" that you should cram it down every non believers neck!
Who are ya gonna save if not the unbelievers! You guys are a riot!!!! Not always! Some things are really funny!
Like christians talking about "wasting time debating with unbelievers," when you are sworn to do so by "the good book" that is the basis of your beliefs for example.
That was a riot!
Who else are you gonna "save" .............. the believers?
Must be christian logic
Not going to address the point then?
Not surprised.
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