Should gun owners be able to bring guns to church

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   RealityTalkposted 11 years ago

   Should gun owners be able to bring guns to church
   
   Now some gun owners are upset because Starbucks won't let them bring guns into their stores. I guess it's difficult to drink coffee without a concealed weapon. If the coffee is served too hot, the customer can only yell and not shoot the store employee.
   Gun owners claim the second amendment right to carry guns - anywhere.  So, should we all be pack-in at church? At amusement parks?  Chucky Cheese? The White House? The Vatican?  Daycare? protest rallies? In prison? In Court? In schools? During an NFL game? What do you think?
   
   

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   CraftytotheCoreposted 11 years ago

   You bring up a very valid point Reality. 
   
   Our high school installed metal detectors about 20 years ago.  They've since been removed and replaced with live police officers. 
   
   I don't own a gun.  I am not against the constitutional right to bear arms. 
   But, I think that this right was written so that people could protect their homes/homesteads. 
   
   Having said that, as a mother, I'm not ok with someone packing a gun at a family restaurant or amusement park.
   
   I think it should be up to the venue or facility to write the rule...check it at the door.  But then again, I live in the north where we don't have as many freedoms to carry guns (such as like hanging one in the back window of our truck).

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   IDONOposted 11 years ago

   Many people do carry guns in all of those places. That doesn't mean they have to carry it on their hip, like western days.
        Unfortunately, I'm sure, if you Google all the venues that you listed above, you will find that there have been violent crimes committed in all of them, not involving guns. It's just an ugly fact of life. They are public places. When someone can go into an elementary school and shoot 20 children, why would anyone think that can't happen in a church or park? Being a house of worship means nothing to the deranged person that is on some sort of a warped mission.
        If I carried a gun, (which I don't) I probably wouldn't carry it to church. But to an amusement park where there are kids and other places? Sure I would. You can't afford to not be realistic these days.

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   BuffaloGal1960posted 11 years ago

   Some crimes have been thwarted from pistol packers in church - which certainly are not exempt from crazy psychos.
   
   I believe if you have applied for conceal and carry, you should be able to carry it wherever you wish if they do not already have security.
   
   I am PRO gun ownership.  I think people kill people and if we can't defend ourselves with guns against criminals who are going to obtain guns, then what do we have? 
   
   This opinion is not negotiable for me.  I know a lot of people are against gun ownership, but I am against the government telling me what my rights are and are not.

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      christiananrkistposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      amen to that. i personally dont own a gun,and really have no interest. i'm not against people owning or carrying though.

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      RealityTalkposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Was that a Freudian slip "some crimes have been thwarted FROM pistol packers ...?"  My kids r threatened by you carrying a gun around them. To protect my rights, maybe I'll take it from you to protect my kids. I don't like gov. telling me no.

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      BuffaloGal1960posted 11 years agoin reply to this

      It means just what it says.  This happened this year a few times. Someone came in church and was taken down by pistol packing church goers. Hooray!

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      RealityTalkposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Your church sounds like a fun place on the Ponderosa. Reminds me of the biblical verse 23A:16B "and Jesus said, 'yea pack-in heat is good. god our father said be prepared to kill man before heith kill youith." lol.

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      BuffaloGal1960posted 11 years agoin reply to this

      It wasn't my church, but yes, the Bible is for self-defense.

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   AMAZING THINKERposted 11 years ago

   Guns are not that helpful against knife attacks; research shows that if your attacker is less than 10 feet away, you'll not get enough time to draw your gun--you won't survive. If your attacker is 21 feet away, you have 6.3% chance of survival unless, of course, you carry the gun in your hand at all times (In that case you'll need to have trained reflexes or you'll be dead by the time you evaluate the threat and initiate a action).
   
   Note: a ninja sword is a better option since you can draw them faster, and since they are longer than a knife, you'll have a huge advantage.
   
   In case your attacker is carrying a gun, you'll survive if you are faster in drawing your gun than him pressing the trigger. If it's a surprise attack, you won't reach your gun fast enough to protect yourself.
   Note: a ninja star or ninja throwing knifes is a better option since you can reach them faster, and they are long range.
   
   Guns should not be allowed, since there is no way of identifying a crazy psycho, from those who are carrying it for protection, unless, of course, if they invent some technology which will help us do that (but still, the psycho might take the gun from a non-psycho gun owner).

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      stuff4kidsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      America has the highest rates of gun crime. In countries where there is no constitutional right to bear arms, there is less gun crime. Q.E.D. It ain't rocket science.

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      BuffaloGal1960posted 11 years agoin reply to this

      If someone is breaking down my house door to rape me or my daughter, I have plenty of time to draw my gun and I don't even have to be a good aim.  I also know the right way to use a knife, not everyone does.

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      RealityTalkposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      stuff4kids, a person of sanity. 
      BuffaloGal1960, a little paranoid? Paranoia & other mental illnesses account for a lot of deaths by guns.

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      AMAZING THINKERposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Never surprise BuffaloGal1960 on Halloween if you wanna live!!
      I never said you shouldn't have a gun in your house, I'll recommend keeping one.
      Taser is a better and safer option for outside.
      knowing krav maga is useful when you are unarmed.

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      BuffaloGal1960posted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I don't call it paranoid. I call it prepared.  There was recently an escaped convict in my area, for example.  He was finally captured but while on the loose for a few weeks, he was considered armed and dangerous but I was ready for him.

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      RealityTalkposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      buffaloGal, there r killers, rapists, burglars & jaywalkers on the loose in every city.  Maybe we should all keep some hand grenades or rockets or A-Bombs just in case. lol. Not paranoid?

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      CalebSparksposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      We could do without the exaggeration, Talk. Nobody here is talking about using hand grenades or nuclear weapons for self defense. Why don't you write something reasonable or just admit BuffaloGal is right?

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      RealityTalkposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      CS, people like u & Buffalo are scary.  U r paranoid & see a bad guy around every corner. Guns kill. That is their purpose. And u can't understand why some people r concerned about guns brought to family events? & your ok w/limiting types

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      CalebSparksposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      We are simply aware of the world we live in and take the appropriate measures to prepare for it...common sense things. If you don't think that's important, that's up to you.

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       RealityTalkposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       CS, I doubt I am any less aware of the world than u or Buffalo. I just choose not to shoot everything that moves. If we all expect the worst, we will get the worst. I'm not against guns or self-defense. I'm against initiating trouble & paranoia.

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       christiananrkistposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       @realityTalk
       If youre not against guns, what exactly is your argument? I'm just a little confused because you seem to speak very passionately against them

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   stuff4kidsposted 11 years ago

   My only question for folks who want to take guns to church would be, "Do you think Jesus would have a gun strapped to his thigh if he came in to your church?" Or, if He came to you in church and asked you, "In whom do you put your faith, your gun or Me?" How would you answer?

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      AMAZING THINKERposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      You mean all those who put faith in Jesus never get shot??

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      stuff4kidsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      No not at all - I'm not a churchgoer. But the question isn't about bearing arms per se, it's about churchgoers carrying arms to church and, if they believe what they say they believe, then that is the question they should be asking themselves.

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      BuffaloGal1960posted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I'd have a gun if Jesus was sitting right next to me.  It has nothing to do with faith. America has high crime because of it's lack of punishments. It has nothing to do with guns. Explain Chicago.

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      christiananrkistposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      i think people get confused with the christian faith. it isnt a blind or foolish faith. a christian soldier wouldnt refuse a weapon because they have faith in God. Not that church is a battleground, but i dont see anything wrong with just having one.

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      RealityTalkposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      stuff4kids, I think I'm the only 1 who understands what u mean. Jesus was about love, not pack-in heat. Church is a place of love & trust, not hate & suspicion. If 1 can't ever part w/a device meant to kill people, something is wrong.

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      AMAZING THINKERposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Gun or no gun, killer always finds a way.
      If guns are not allowed someplace, the rule is for everyone, no exception.

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      BuffaloGal1960posted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Well there are more Christian haters than I care to know.  Some domestic, some not.  Therefore church is no longer any safer than another public establishment.  Churches are not exempt from psychos. God gave me a brain for self defense. I use it.

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      RealityTalkposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I agree churches are full of crazy people.  People who believe in invisible winged men & a bearded Superman & women that give birth without impregnation.  Maybe you should all carry guns to protect yourselves from each other.

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      christiananrkistposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      LOL. wow. i love sarcasm. youre obviously not speaking of christianity. there is nothing like what you described in the bible. with the exception of the virgin birth.

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       RealityTalkposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       I'm glad u have a sense of humor. We all shouldn't take ourselves too seriously.  Just a note though, the virgin birth is not in the bible; the idea was created 300 years after the claimed death of Jesus.

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       christiananrkistposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       what make you think it was created 300 years later? Even most secular historians agree that the earliest writings that speak of Jesus was prior to AD 70. In these writings are the virgin birth

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       RealityTalkposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Rt after I wrote it, I knew I wrote it wrong. Virgin birth was in 2 of the 4 gospels. The virgin birth was not accepted by the church until the 2nd century. I never said anything about Jesus.

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       christiananrkistposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       by what church would that be? I realize you didnt say anything about Jesus. He just typically who the virgin birth leads to, and primarily what the overall writings are about

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       RealityTalkposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       I'll leave that to you to research, but it is commonly known. A Google search using "what century did church accept virgin birth" will give you a start.

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       christiananrkistposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       I will check that, thank you for that information. Whether the church accepted it or not though doesn't dispute the fact that it was written about prior to AD 70. Within the life time of many of Jesus followers.

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   christiananrkistposted 11 years ago

   there are certain places i dont think guns should be allowed, like the white house for obvious reasons. i actually dont see a problem with bringing one into church or a starbucks for the matter. i think the majority of people really are only carrying it for protection or just to show off without any real intent on using it. people who would shoot a starbucks employee for the coffee being too hot , most likely doesnt care if they are allowed to bring one in anyway. When you put rules like this in place , only decent citizens are following them.. I also believe however an owner of a starbucks, bar, NFL stadium or whatever has the right to put whatever rules they want.

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      RealityTalkposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Some valid pts. I would suggest though that if guns r allowed around my children then the White House should be no exception. I value my children higher than some gov. elect. (s)he is replaceable, my kids r not.

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      christiananrkistposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I think his family would disagree, but i see your point. i only say not the white house because he is at a higher risk for getting shot than kids are.

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      RealityTalkposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I will not call the President's family the 1st family; sounds like royalty. MY FAMILY is the 1st family. The life of my family & myself is at least as important - & most important to me. I can elect a new President, but my family is irreplace

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      christiananrkistposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I'm not calling them 1st family either. I have a daughter and  of course her life is more important to me than the pres.  My only point really is that he is more likely for someone to want to shoot than yours or my kids. do you disagree?

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      RealityTalkposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      christianankist, Certainly, I agree w/u that there r more people who may wish harm to the President than me or my family. My pt thou is if a gun is needed 4 protection as claimed, even the White House is not exempt. We r ALL as important.

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      christiananrkistposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      we are ALL just as important. good point

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   CalebSparksposted 11 years ago

   Absolutely. Church is a public place open to anyone. A mass shooting could take place here as easily as any other place where they've happened. Making church a "gun-free zone" makes the congregants all the more vulnerable. Murderers love gun free zones. What's so hard to understand here?
   
   I believe logic and reasoning are invaluable to this life. What's amazing is the number of people on Hubpages that say they represent reason and logic, and yet fail to see what's right in front of their noses. Maybe they do not believe violent people exist or that horrific things can happen to them. To them I say do as you will, but keep your hands off the rights of others.

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      BuffaloGal1960posted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I agree with you.

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      RealityTalkposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      You are right about one thing, "the number of people on Hubpages that say they represent reason & logic, and yet fail to see what's right in front of their noses."  Remind you of anyone? You. lol.

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      CalebSparksposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      RealityTalk, are you willing/able to disprove my answer to your question or will you just continue to make silly remarks to cover your lack of a good answer?

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      RealityTalkposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      CS, you have no sense of humor. The rights u want protected r one's of your choice. U care little of the rights of others. Guns r not necessary everywhere we go & they frighten many. U.S. has highest gun ownership in world & it has not made u

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      gmwilliamsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Reality Talk, you have NAILED IT!  SOME folks just DON'T get it. Thank you for clarifying the situation at hand.

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      CalebSparksposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Gm, why don't YOU ever accept the conclusions of others? Do you think you are somehow "enlightened" over everyone else because you've had some education?

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      gmwilliamsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Caleb, you are DROWNING.....stop answering questions, let the GROWN UPS talk, you are SHOWING yourself for you are REALLY are....hmmmm.....

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      CalebSparksposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Gm, you DO NOT tolerate opinions that disagree with yours. But I don't really need to say it...your writings speak for themselves.

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      AMAZING THINKERposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Grace always makes valid points, and yes, she is more enlightened cause she has a deep understanding of this subject. Her statements are based on logical thinking.
      I wouldn't blame her for not tolerating nonsense.
      At least try to make some sense!!

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       gmwilliamsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Amazing, thank you for your support.  Caleb IS what HE is. Sad.....

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       CalebSparksposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Well thanks, Gm. Your personal attacks on me have helped me to better handle criticism from others.

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   delleaposted 11 years ago

   I think that a person with a clean record who is legally licensed to carry a firearm should be able to carry a firearm wherever they so desire, including in church. In fact, if teachers and staff at schools were allowed to carry guns there would probably be far fewer school shootings!
   
   All of the anti-gun nuts out there are terrified of ANYBODY owning a gun, which is utterly stupid... if anything they should be terrified of any CRIMINAL who is toting a gun around ILLEGALLY, and constantly putting the screws to legal gun owners by making the laws and fees to carry them legally isn't doing a damn thing to criminals who can pick up an unlicensed weapon from any crackhead on any street corner!
   
   And don't anyone waste their time showing me all of the puffed-up idiotic "statistics" that legal gun owners are behind a higher percentage of crime in this country, I have friends (and family) in law enforcement with years of experience who know that said statistics are all false. And, by the way, if a legal gun owner does happen to commit a crime with a firearm, guess what... then they are no longer a legal gun owner, they are a criminal, and they've forfeited their right to bear arms... period. But just because SOME people commit crimes with firearms does not mean that nobody deserves the legal right to own and carry them!
   
   After all, how many idiots drive and talk and text on their cellphones all the time? Your chances of getting killed in a car accident by one of those morons is MUCH greater than that of getting hurt by a legal, law-abiding gun-owner (and even drunk drivers for that matter).
   
   It's about time that the anti-gun nuts pulled their heads out of their back-sides and saw the light!

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      RealityTalkposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Never surprises me gun advocates commentary is full of words like "Idiot, nuts" & angry rhetoric. I would rather face a texter than a gun carrying angry paranoid believing a device designed to kill people should be carried by teachers & pries

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      ChristinSposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I agree RealityTalk we aren't "idiots" for not wanting a return to the wild west. Most people believe themselves to be far more adept with a firearm than they actually are. People with weak arguments hurl insults instead of logic.

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      Mklow1posted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I am not sure how we are returning to the wild west by keeping guns legal.

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    Justsilvieposted 11 years ago

    I have no problem with people owning guns as long as there are some controls for the safety of the public like being sane, storing  them safely and not using them as entertainment instead of fireworks on holidays.  But what the heck is wrong with people these days, even in the Wild Wild West wasn't this wild.  People worked hard to get guns of the streets it was a sign that civilization and family has set up there, now it seems some are working harder to get them back on the street. What next gunfights at the Corral to settle disputes? Don’t like my politics you shoot me? Park to close…bang your dead?
    
    I thought we lived in a civilized society at least the last time I looked there were no gunslingers walking down my main street.  How about giving a bit of peace of mind to those of us of who just might feel a little insecure to see someone packing a gun in Starbucks in fact, it might seem to us you’re up to no good.

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       RealityTalkposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Well said Justsilvie.  I just watched an episode of Nancy Grace Unsolved Mysteries where a preacher's wife, Mary Winkler, shot her husband in the back w/a 12 gauge shotgun. I wonder if he'd be alive & she not in jail if there was no gun in the ho

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       Justsilvieposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       I remember they did a study about prisoners that were in there for murder and most had killed "1" person and in a moment of rage and passion and most with guns. I am so tired of the vigilante mentality, it makes a good script but sucks in reality.

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    edhanposted 11 years ago

    I believe guns should never be in a part of our lives except for people like the police, army or air force. We should be living in harmony and one should not be carrying guns unless you have intention of doing harm to others. The question is mostly about protection but if everyone thinks of harmony then there will be no need of carrying guns for protection.

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       RealityTalkposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Edhan, There will be many who say you are naive & a sitting duck to the criminal.  I say, I wish there were more people like you. This would be a better world.

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       CalebSparksposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Edhan, I just have a question: Do you believe that everyone walks around thinking of harmony? That would be wonderful if that were the case. But the world of which you speak sadly does not exist.

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       edhanposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Caleb, I do believe this world does exist even though it is within a small communities of people around the world. I for one is teaching my children with such mentality. If everyone does their little bit of teaching, then soon the world will be it.

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       RealityTalkposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       edhan, I agree. I teach my children the same. The problem is America is full of angry, self-absorbed paranoids who watch too many violent TV shows/movies & play too many violent video games. If u expect the worst, that is all you'll find.

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       CalebSparksposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Edhan, this idealistic society may indeed exist in certain situations, but is nowhere close to being the norm. Until it is, we must deal with the present circumstances.

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       gmwilliamsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Great answer, totally agree.

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       edhanposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       I totally agreed. But I have faith that when we start teaching our younger generations the right way in thought, it is still hopeful for the new younger generations. A little at a time will be helpful in a long run.

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    mintinfoposted 11 years ago

    They should. You never know where that other fictional character, the Devil can turn up. I mean, as long as we continue to blame everything other than the increasing levels of mental disorder for violence, why not.

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       gmwilliamsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Good satorical response!

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    jfklagaurdiaposted 11 years ago

    Gun owners should be able to bring their guns wherever they would like. It shouldn't make a difference whether the person is in a supermarket or church. Also, just because you're in a church does not mean that you are more safe than anywhere else.

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    romana tarotsposted 11 years ago

    Definately a big NO. One goes to church to pray, have a quiet  time. As one dresses up decently when one goes to  church so guns come no way in defination of being decent , but undecent they definately are.

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