Can they do it? Will they do it? WE HOPE SO, but the POLITICAL GAMES are likely to continue for quite some time
I hope the house can kill this version of it as it puts more people behind the eight ball with mandatory coverage. If you could not afford health insurance before how can you afford it any better with the IRS breathing down your neck in penalties and interest when you still can't afford it?
This is a bad bill and deserves to die. The most unfortunate part of it is that it took 15 years to revisit the issue till now. How much more time will it take and how many more will go uninsured due to the costs before it is brought up again?
Quoted for truth.
Dems both failed to listen and sold themselves out.
A bunch of them are gone next year, but I don't think it will make much difference, unfortunately.
This whole healthcare bill is playing like a bad episode of "Survivor". My only question is who do I vote off the island next?
Sad, but true. Maybe if enough people have been awakened by America's brush with death, maybe, just maybe, we'll choose better candidates.
i have to say that any time
i have had to deal with any government agency
for any reason
i end up slogging through mounds of paperwork, filling it all out and basically doing their job for them and then they say they never got your paperwork and then when you go 'round and 'round with them after much aggravation they say "you're all set" but something tells you to follow up on it and sure enough two weeks later you're not even in our system or "we never got your check" even though the check cleared in your bank account, etc.
so these people are supposed to manage our health care system?
god help us all.
Oh man please do not let that horrible bill pass the senate - I put my hubb about it all over news channels this morning telling why NOT God I sure hope people start emailing and writing the senators , calling em also helps some pressure on em to vote NO
I don't hope so. I still hold hope that this garbage tax and spend legislation is discarded so a REAL Bill that actually benefits the American People can be put in place.
This bill does nothing but force people to buy insurance and insurance companies make more.
The only wording the media picks up on is "affordable". What does that mean?
Is forcing a family of four to buy a $1,200 a month policy because their employer does not provide insurance qualify as "affordable"?
And when employers are forced to buy coverage they can not afford they MUST either lay people off ... more people on the public payroll... more cost to society. OR they simply cut wages. Less money to be spent on other parts of the economy.
The solution is to regulate and level the playing field, not to mandate coverage.
The subsidies will cost Tax Payers Billions. It's just socialism. And the people who qualify for subsidies are not going to get a monthly check... they are going to be required to buy now and hopefully be reimbursed later. Can the poor afford to do that?
If you start looking into the bill you see how bloated and ridiculous it is.
Taxing Tanning Salons to pay for Health Care? Buying of the State of Louisiana for $300 million.
Cutting Medicare Payments to Doctors who are already bailing on the Medicare Program because the payouts are so ridiculously low.
This bill is so large (over 2,000) pages that the people who are supporting it have note even taken the time to read it.
Americans want Health Care reform, but this isn't it. Dig in and see for yourself.
This is just more Tax and Spend politics.
The TAXES kick in immediately, the "benefits"... if you can call them that do not even start for many parts of this terrible legislation for another 5 years.
Dude, so this family should just go without coverage. Is that what you're saying? Insurance is for the "just in case". Sure, everything would be fantastic if we could guarantee that we won't get sick, but this isn't the case. And if employers don't provide coverage, they should because employees serve the company and should be protected
Dude, you're definitely a politician. When has it not been about YOU? You're just like John Ensign
This bill is not beneficial to the United States.
Well said, Mike.
I whish there was still hope that this bill was doomed. However, it is not "close" it's a done deal. When Obama makes his State of the Union Address in February it will be his centerpiece. Taxes will go up on nearly every front. Unemployment will also go up. This will be a new entitlement program to create political slaves of whats left of the working poor and the middle class.
Next on the list is amnesty for illegal aliens and then on to cap and trade.
America's going in the right direction! It may be uncomfortable to start with but it will be good for you
Agreed! America has lagged behind other developed nations for too long.
This started out about health care, but it turned into political defeat vs. political victory. Republicans said some stupid things, Democrats said and did some really stupid things, and the bill we have right now is a train wreck of paid-for votes and spiffs for special interests along with Constitutional violations thrown in for good measure. Politics as usual...
What exactly do you object to in the bill?
Primarily, the mandate to purchase insurance...that is what I am most strongly opposed to.
Let me get back to you on the rest as I'm trying to wade through the Senate version, since the administration has failed to uphold it's promise of transparency by not giving the public a chance to see what's in it. It is also what is NOT in the bill that bothers me; opening up state boundaries to encourage competition, tort reform, you know...the things that conservatives wanted...options that might have helped curb costs. It is not likely this bill will do anything to reduce costs.
That and the part that says a person will be fined if they don't buy insurance. And then if they don't pay the fine they will be guilty of tax evasion.
This is essentially a tax bill and has very little to do with healthcare, unfortunately.
Well, if you're going to be a beneficiary of a system, you have to pay into it. You can't avoid paying while you're healthy and the minute you fall down and break your hip, start paying into the system.
You might have noticed that even though you're too young to take advantage of Medicare, you're already paying into it. That's a mandate. If you don't pay it, that's tax evasion. Do you want to dismantle Medicare?
There have been dozens of versions circulated in the House and Senate. ALL of them are available for you to review. Here's a link:
When you complain about the lack of transparency, are you just parroting what FoxNews commentators say? (They've been known to lie. A lot.)
As for tort reform: it would make a small dent in health care costs. It's a red herring, something the GOP is very good at manufacturing these days.
Will you be happy with the bill when the public option is gone? Are you happy with the virtual bribing for votes that has been required to get all of the Dems on the same page?
There is one question I have that hasn't been answered yet: if cost reductions were the stated purpose, what accomplishes this in the proposed legislation?
You are asking way too many questions...careful.
Fair questions. My answer is no to both. But that's what compromise is about, right? When you have a far-right party that is solidly in the lobbyist's pocket, as are a handful of the Democrats, and the insurance industry spends $1.5 million a day on lobbying, then I'm afraid this is the best we probably come up with.
That remains to be seen. It's good that there's pressure to keep costs down. A pity the "conservatives" didn't give a crap about fiscal conservatism when $2 trillion was committed to the Iraq war and Medicare "reform." They only seem to care when they're the minority--as if we needed another reason to keep them out of government.
um, um I'll answer , Damn near Every Thing and thats a fact Jack !
A new health system will need to be adjusted as time reveals it's weaknesses. Like many countries who have such a system it will work itself in to shape.
Wait, you mean this has been tried by other countries and they didn't descend into chaos and Communism? Glenbeck is wrong about this?
Say it ain't so Joe. Holy Meatballs!
I know it's crazy! Hold onto your meatballs.....tightly....if they need surgery who will pay?
It worked just fine in Soviet Union. Hi there America, welcome to the communist club
tell us more Misha...people need to know your first hand account about what is going on in the US government today...socialism/communism...call it what you will...but it is not US Constitutional
Soviets were the only ones to offer healthcare? (I'm learning so much today) I heard from a patriot news source that some other countries decided to tackle the healthcare mess and they did not turn to communism.
Love glenbeck! You should see him from outside America!
We switch him on for humour not opinion!
Big man Beck. Small brain, but a big man.
..a legend in his own lunch time!
If you want to see one even funnier, look up Rod Parsley. He sells to the same rubes but with a different twist. He claims to clean up all of your debt through the power of God. Send him your unpaid bills, along with a sizeable donation and they will miraculously vanish.
Parsley explains black genocide
Chicago-style politics was in full form as Reid used your tax
dollars to payoff Sens. Landrieu, Lieberman and Nelson. These select
"holdout" Senators stand to reap a bountiful harvest of YOUR
tax dollars for their support of the healthcare plan!
As the seedy details of the bill begin to ooze to the surface,
here are just a few of the "bribes" Reid used to gain Senate support...
--$100 million for an unnamed health care facility.
--One state gets to expand Medicaid at no cost --
while taxpayers in the other 49 states foot the bill.
--One insurance company, located in a swing Senator's
home state has special "untold" benefits from the bill.
this is a quote from a patriot news source...
10s of millions of people that are on fire for getting back to ehtical lives following the US Constitution.
I believe most of them were Republicans that have become sickened at where that party fell to...big business and wall street people losing their ethical business perspectives, elitists that are more concerned for their own pockets books than for the people...
Patriots are building a strong force through the Constitutional ideals and are from many quarters of current US life...Independents, Constitutionalists, Republicans, Federalists, militia minded, fiscal conservatives, etc..
their news sources are the organized groups that have been built in the last few years to address the issues and unite the people.
Very interesting, but what is a patriot news source? And now, what is militia minded?
I edited that into the previous post...you know militias, as of old...like the early patriots in the US...ready to defend their lives from government abuses...non violent...but not off the table, just the last resort...hopefully they have come out of their foxholes to enlighten themselves to the force of uniting in communication and working through the Constitutional laws and not just shooting first, asking questions later
Anyone care to speak about how exactly the bill reduces costs? Wasn't that the point? Obama said we must pass healthcare reform to avoid economic catastrophe.
Tennessee tried something very similar with negative economic results. Massachusetts is also struggling with increased costs due to their attempt at universal coverage.
Four states with Democratic Senators are getting additional Medicaid assistance from the .gov; one of those, Nebraska, is getting 100% indefinitely. TN with its Republican Senators gets bupkis.
So do any of you know how the cost reductions occur? I'm at a loss.
"Medicine is the keystone of the arch of Socialism" - Lenin
"Socialism is just the last “feel good” step on the path to Communism and its slavery." - Lenin
from the horse's mouth
great quotes...could you please tell me your source book, or website...
While good healthcare for all may have been a principle of communism - it doesn't mean that socialized healthcare is communism! In the UK we've had socialist and conservative governments fully committed to free healthcare for the last 60 years. I just don't get why Americans see this as such as bad thing - it works - it's great - it's what a civilized society is all about!
I think it is more the combination of ethics of economics and healthcare that is the problem in the US...or rather the lack there of (in ethics, I mean)
"Americans" don't feel that way. Extremists who happen to live in America do.
see the article I posted as a new thread...
Is Healthcare a Right?
this is a US patriot's Constitutional perspective
I'm starting to get a clearer picture of the type of person you consider a patriot. It ain't pretty.
The only problem with the UK or any other Countries version of free health care is its not FREE, never has been and never will be.
"the juicy parts in the rear" hommer simpson
Every industrialized country on the planet except the US is Communist. Funny.
'Patriot?' 'Homer Simpson?' Sigh. What is the new mantra?
Yes, we are the last hope for personal sovereignty, individual freedom, and inalienable rights.
Everyone else lives under the yoke of crushing governmental overreach, while only we in America enjoy prosperity, low taxes and minimal governmental interference in our lives.
REALLY hilarious. Maybe not to a Freeper, of course. Will never understand your people's disdain for gay people when you have such a taste for camp and melodrama.
We have our system of government because we worked and died for it. If the rest of the world wants to "enjoy prosperity, low taxes and minimal governmental interference" they can work for it too. After all, isn't that what YOU want? For America to stop butting into the affairs of other countries?
And as for your weak attempt at disdain and insult - you make unwarranted assumptions, lump me into a group of which I am not a part, and then claim to know my "tastes".
When you can come up with a few facts, then we'll talk.
They all say that but for some reason they (both the leaders and countrymen) of some of these countries won't let us! Hell, in another thread one of our fine and respected fellow hubbers cannot put enough blame on Americans for something His own country's politicians done. What's up with that? I would love it if our country was an Isolationist state. I would thoroughly love it.
We have had it for forty years or so. It is fantastic! People have dignity, are kept active in advanced age, and continue to contribute to the community. The preventative approach to medicine works. If people can afford to go to the doctor, it saves our public purse millions as we do not have to do as much radical life saving surgeries on people who have not had treatment when they needed it.
If you are ill or aged, you should not need to suffer medically.
I realize that parts of the health care system in the UK are excellent. Because of a relative with breast cancer, however, I did some research on the disease. US women with breast cancer have a much better survival rate. Why?
Things I like about the senate bill:
- more people will be covered
- insurance companies can't refuse policies because of pre-existing conditions
Things I don't like:
- cuts in Medicare
- BO selling us out to big pharma
- the fact that votes had to be "bought." If it was such a great plan, it seems that every dem would be eager to support it. Now, we'll all be paying for Nebraska's expanded Medicaid FOREVER. No other state gets this perk - just Nebraska. How can anyone say that's fair???
I'm sorry. I'm originally from Nebraska. The politicians there are usually centrists. I know Nelson was on the table. I hadn't heard of this, however. Do you have a source for this information (pls. no Fox news...though I doubt you'd supply that, habee).
I will find the web address...
just do a search under "ben nelson on the issues" and choose your own perspective read about it...they are there...the fact still remains regardless of the perspecitves, he was bought and sold...which is against the Constitution...one more mark as proof that the ethics of washington are lost, of course they have been for a long time...
I read it in an AP article:
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/art … wD9CNGMD01
"The Democratic linchpin in a delicate Senate health care compromise said Sunday that special goodies for his constituents came at the behest of the state’s Republican governor.
Speaking on CNN’s “State of the Union,” Sen. Ben Nelson , D-Neb., said he “didn’t ask for a special favor here ... didn’t ask for a carve-out.”
"He’s said publicly he’s having trouble with the budget and this will add to the budget woes,” Nelson said of Republican Gov. Dave Heineman . “I said, look, we have to have this fixed.”
Nelson’s comments Sunday morning came as Republicans stepped up their criticisms of the “Cornhusker kickback” included in the Senate health care bill, which is expected to pass the Senate by Friday. The proposal would force the federal government to pay the entire insurance bill for poor Nebraskans. Critics decry the subsidy as a blatant political bribe intended to secure Nelson’s decisive 60th health care vote Saturday."
I didn't think it sounded like Nelson.
Anyway, I don't think anyone ever said it was a perfect or great plan. Just better than what we have now...although I don't foresee it changing anything much for me, it may help out my parents.
Nelson may not have asked for a "carve out" but he could have refused it. I haven't read the stories about him and this situation but either he could have refused or he was forced into it. Either way it's dirty politics. If this bill was so great they wouldn't have to "buy" votes to get it through.
Star, you can find articles about Nelson's deal all over the internet - on Politico, the AARP website, Congress.org, and numerous other places. It's totally true.
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