Democrats calling for the abolition of ICE...

1. 78

   jackclee lmposted 6 years ago

   Do you agree?

   replyreport
   1. 78

      jackclee lmposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bi … 3a8f69b33f

      replyreport
      1. 78

         jackclee lmposted 6 years agoin reply to this

         Here is prove that some in our country are for open borders. The gloves are off. If you abolish ICE, you might as well open the door, throw away the key and let all in...

         replyreport
         1. 82

            Don Wposted 6 years agoin reply to this

            From the article you linked to:
            
            "They all think think ICE should be disbanded and its work handled by a different, more capable agency".
            
            "We should abolish ICE. . . We should create something better, something different".
            
            You don't think an agency that is better and more capable than ICE is a good idea?

            replyreport
            1. 0

               ahorsebackposted 6 years agoin reply to this

               Suggestion , Maybe we should eliminate the reason  that ICE . is needed --------------
               Pretty simple , we live in a modern and hyper-populated world  , lets control our problem southern borders  with a wall , NEXT ;we could focus on the northern borders where illegals aren't even registered as a problem and yet are just  as prevalent ?  Take a look folks , illegals come from Canada too !

               replyreport
               1. 82

                  Don Wposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                  That won't eliminate the problem, which would still need to be managed by an agency, like ICE . . . but better.

                  replyreport
                  1. 96

                     wildernessposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                     Does "better" mean a group that will not follow the law, but instead liberal policies whether legal or not, whether effective or not?  Because, reading between the lines, that's what I got out it.

                     replyreport
            2. 78

               jackclee lmposted 6 years agoin reply to this

               Of course it is a good idea. Except I know these people too well. They say one thing but they really wnat something else. They might as well be honest with Americans. They are against any form of enforcement. They are really for open borders. They treat illegal immigrants as they are legal immigrants with all the rights...that is the problem.

               replyreport
               1. 78

                  jackclee lmposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                  Here is another story...
                  https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2018/0 … -protests/

                  replyreport
               2. 82

                  Don Wposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                  Yes, I think it's a good idea too.
                  
                  In relation to De Blasio and Gillibrand wanting open borders. That's a huge leap. Unless you have reliable evidence that proves it, I don't think it can reasonably be accepted as true.
                  
                  In contrast, there is hard evidence that ICE's processes are inadequate, harmful, unsafe and deficient, in the areas of:
                  
                  Training
                  
                  A report from the Department of Homeland Security Office of the Inspector General from January 2018, found that ICE's training was disorganized and in need of further evalutaiton(1).
                  
                  Detention
                  
                  Reports from the DHSOIG in October 2017 and June 2018 found that . . .
                  
                  ". . . examples of repeat deficiencies include facilities failing to notify ICE about alleged or proven sexual assaults"(2).
                  
                  And 4 out of 5 ICE immigration detention centres inspected had . . .
                  
                  ". . . problems that undermine the protection of detainees’ rights, their humane treatment, and the provision of a safe and healthy environment. Although the climate and detention conditions varied among the facilities and not every problem was present at all of them, our observations, interviews with detainees and staff, and our review of documents revealed several issues . . . Staff did not always treat detainees respectfully and professionally, and some facilities may have misused segregation. Finally, we observed potentially unsafe and unhealthy detention conditions."(3)
                  
                  Recruitment and Deployment
                  
                  A inspection report from July 2017 found that . . .
                  
                  "Neither CBP nor ICE could provide complete data to support the operational need or deployment strategies for the additional 15,000 agents and officers they were directed to hire. . .  Without a comprehensive workforce model, DHS will continue to struggle to accomplish its missions in a cost-effective manner"(4).
                  
                  Operational Data
                  
                  In July 2017, Inspector General John Roth, testified that IT systems do not effectively support ICE visa tracking operations(5).
                  
                  Financial Data
                  
                  In June 2017, the DHSOIG (in conjunction with KPMG) found deficiencies in ICE's processes for managing financial data:
                  
                  "The deficiencies collectively limited ICE’s ability to ensure that critical financial and operational data were maintained in such a manner as to ensure their confidentiality, integrity, and availability". (6)
                  
                  These reports highlight a range of issues which suggest building a new organization from the ground up to meet current immigration challenges might be a sensible option.
                  
                  (1) https://www.oig.dhs.gov/sites/default/f … -jan18.pdf
                  (2) https://www.oig.dhs.gov/sites/default/f … -Jun18.pdf
                  (3) https://www.oig.dhs.gov/sites/default/f … -Dec17.pdf
                  (4) https://www.oig.dhs.gov/sites/default/f … -Jul17.pdf
                  (5) https://www.oig.dhs.gov/sites/default/f … ys-002.pdf
                  (6) https://www.oig.dhs.gov/sites/default/f … -Jun17.pdf

                  replyreport
                  1. 78

                     jackclee lmposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                     Mayor DeBlasio -
                     https://www1.nyc.gov/office-of-the-mayo … ugees-and#
                     
                     This was issued on Jan 27, 2017.
                     The Trump executive order has been approved by the Supreme Court after numerous challenges by progressive judges...

                     replyreport
2. 74

   Wesman Todd Shawposted 6 years ago

   I'm for increasing the size of Immigration and Customs Enforcement, or giving the ones we have unlimited overtime pay. Huffington Post, and its readers are the cancer cells in any community which would otherwise be a healthy bit of tissue.

   replyreport
   1. 78

      jackclee lmposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      I want an open debate on this issue. No more hiding behind emotions...and photos of crying kids and cages...
      
      This is a serious issue for our country in 2018.
      If we are to continue to have a country, we need to have this debate, and a vote. We cannot have this kick down the road for the next generation...
      There will be no next generation of Americans.
      
      Wake up and look around your community.
      Is this what you want for your future and your children’s future?
      We have given opportunity to legal immigrants to come here and assimilate and become party of our great nation.
      Now some Democrats wants illegals treated better and jump the line.
      
      Let’s put it up to a vote. We have a democracy. Let the people speak...

      replyreport
      1. 78

         jackclee lmposted 6 years agoin reply to this

         Here is some facts on Cortez -
         
         http://www.breitbart.com/big-government … -counties/
         
         It turns out she grew up in my home town of Yorktown Hts. Westchester county...

         replyreport
3. 90

   IslandBitesposted 6 years ago

   Also
   
   More than a dozen U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) special agents have signed a letter to Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen calling to eliminate ICE and shift its work to another bureau.
   
   At least 19 ICE investigators signed the letter to Nielsen, saying they were concerned that the Trump administration’s crackdown on immigration was preventing them from carrying out the agency’s other duties.
   
   Investigators “have been perceived as targeting undocumented aliens, instead of the transnational criminal organizations that facilitate cross border crimes impacting our communities and national security,” the letter states.
   
   The agents who signed the letter are members of Homeland Security Investigations, a section of ICE. Agents in the division work on crimes like drug trafficking, cyber crimes and human smuggling, according to The New York Times.
   
   The agents suggested that Nielsen create a second bureau just for their investigations and another for immigration detentions and deportations.

   replyreport
   1. 95

      Readmikenowposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      You do realize there are over 20,000 ICE agents.  Having 19 sign something isn't too powerful.  That means 19,981 ICE agents don't agree.  I'll go with the majority on this one.

      replyreport
      1. 90

         IslandBitesposted 6 years agoin reply to this

         Didnt say that.

         replyreport
      2. 82

         GA Andersonposted 6 years agoin reply to this

         Hi Readmikenow,
         
         Relative to going with the majority, you should look at a different set of numbers.
         
         The letter was from I.C.E. HRI Special Agents in Charge. There are 26 Special Agents in Charge Offices. In other words, these Special Agents in Charge are the supervisors of the 6000, (not 20,000), HRI Special Agents.
         
         So ... 19 of 26 would be a majority.
         
         It would seem reasonable, given the content of the letter, that their sentiments would also be held by a majority of those 6000 Special Agents - because they are the boots on the ground that are directly affected by the issues mentioned in the letter.
         
         As a side-note; folks using this letter to validate their demand to abolish I.C.E. are misleading their audience - neither the 19 Special Agents in Charge, nor the contents of the letter, are calling for abolishing I.C.E.
         
         GA

         replyreport
         1. 95

            Readmikenowposted 6 years agoin reply to this

            I disagree.
            
            Here is a link to the ICE Agent .gov website.  Yes, there are 20,000 ICE agents.
            
            https://www.ice.gov/topics/fy2017
            
            Those who signed the letters were all members of ONE division of ICE charged with performing investigations. 
            
            "The agents who signed the letter are members of Homeland Security Investigations, a section of ICE. Agents in the division work on crimes like drug trafficking, cyber crimes and human smuggling, according to The New York Times."
            
            Those who signed it were ICE investigators.
            
            "At least 19 ICE investigators signed the letter to Nielsen, saying they were concerned that the Trump administration’s crackdown on immigration was preventing them from carrying out the agency’s other duties."
            
            There was no suggestion to abolish ICE.
            
            "The agents suggested that Nielsen create a second bureau just for their investigations and another for immigration detentions and deportations."
            
            http://thehill.com/latino/394757-more-t … ish-agency
            
            This NYT article is much to do about nothing.

            replyreport
            1. 82

               GA Andersonposted 6 years agoin reply to this

               Okay, you win, there are 20,000 I.C.E agents. But since I think perceiving this letter as pertinent to all of I.C.E is as wrong as those that are using it to validate their "Abolish ICE" demands, it appears we are looking at this issue from different perspectives. You keep yours, and I will keep mine.
               
               The letter specifically identifies the department division HRI, the writers - HRI Special Agents in charge, and, who is not intended to be addressed by the content and purpose of the letter - the ERO division, (the other 14,000 "agents").
               
               Surely you also read the letter. Why, with those delineations so clearly stated, would anyone think the inclusion of all of the ERO division agents would be pertinent to the conversation?
               
               GA

               replyreport
               1. 95

                  Readmikenowposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                  I agree with much of what you have stated.
                  
                  I saw it as not an abolition of ICE, but a desire to have it expanded and changed to accommodate increased demand for their services.
                  
                  Mike

                  replyreport
   2. 96

      wildernessposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      ICE.  Us I[b]mmigration and [b]Customs Enforcement. 
      
      From  https://www.ice.gov/overview: "ICE’S mission is to protect America from the cross-border crime and illegal immigration that threaten national security and public safety." 
      
      "Immigration enforcement is the largest single area of responsibility for ICE. While certain responsibilities and close cooperation with U.S. Customs and Border Protection, U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services, and others require significant ICE assets near the border, the majority of immigration enforcement work for ICE takes place in the country’s interior.
      
      I have to wonder just what those 19 letter writers think their job is, if not "targeting undocumented aliens".

      replyreport
      1. 82

         GA Andersonposted 6 years agoin reply to this

         "I have to wonder just what those 19 letter writers think their job is, if not "targeting undocumented aliens"."
         
         Wonder no more bud. Although in the broad sense, yes, those 19 letter writers, (the Special Agents in Charge of regional offices),  from HRI, (Homeland Security Investigations), do deal with undocumented aliens, but to be true to the conversation, their specific responsibilities should be the point of the conversation.
         
         From Homeland Security Investigations:
         
         "HSI has broad legal authority to enforce a diverse array of federal statutes. It uses this authority to investigate all types of cross-border criminal activity, including:
         
         Financial crimes, money laundering and bulk cash smuggling;
         Commercial fraud and intellectual property theft;
         Cybercrimes;
         Human rights violations;
         Human smuggling and trafficking;
         Immigration, document and benefit fraud;
         Narcotics and weapons smuggling/trafficking;
         Transnational gang activity;
         Export enforcement; and,
         International art and antiquity theft."
         
         The implication of your comment is much better suited to the duties of the ERO, (Enforcement and Removal Operations),  division of ICE - which has no connection to the letter writers.
         
         So ha! You get a technical foul for tripping the "too cute" sensor.
         
         

         replyreport
         1. 96

            wildernessposted 6 years agoin reply to this

            *shrug*  The link I gave was from the ICE website.  If that isn't their job, I don't know where else to look - certainly the much wider HSI, with it's much wider responsibilities, would not be it.
            
            Unless those 19 letter writers were not from ICE, as indicated?
            "At least 19 ICE investigators signed the letter to Nielsen"  https://hubpages.com/politics/forum/339 … ost4013896
            
            Should I have investigated further, just to make sure that it was ICE employees writing the letters as claimed?

            replyreport
            1. 82

               GA Andersonposted 6 years agoin reply to this

               Yep, you should have looked further. At least to the letter that was the point of the conversation.
               
               That "19 ICE investigators" blurb, while technically correct, was, as stated, as misleading as the folks that are using the letter to validate their demands to abolish ICE.
               
               

               replyreport
4. 0

   ahorsebackposted 6 years ago

   Everyone needs to keep in mind that the present policy is not an increase in  enforcement , it is a RETURN  to laws and enforcement from the LACK of it in the Obama era .   So what ? Now  present Obama era employees think we have to decrease the law enforcement from their inactive enforcements  ?

   replyreport
   1. 78

      jackclee lmposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      That is why we need this debate. There are two ways to go.
      Those that believe in open borders would disband ICE and all border agents.
      Those who wants to preserve our nation and maintain a border wants legal immigration and enforcement of our laws.
      It is that simple. No more saying one thing and doing the opposite.
      
      During the Obama years, I questioned the need for any border agents. What did they do to stop rhose illegal crossings?
      It seemed their hands were tied from doing their job.
      After 9/11, when Homeland security was created along with the patriot act, I was ambivalent. Any super agency is just one more level of bureaucracy.
      We should have kept each agency separate and just increased their coorporation. That was the finding of the 9/11 commission. One agency was prevented to sharing info with another...

      replyreport
5. 61

   Live to Learnposted 6 years ago

   A party that will not participate in creating a fair and equitable immigration policy, a party firmly against closing our border to allow for the implementation of a fair and equitable immigration policy, now calling for the abolition of ICE.
   
   Speaks for itself, as to what the ultimate goal is.

   replyreport
6. 0

   ahorsebackposted 6 years ago

   It only makes sense that America's borders will tighten up even more in the future ,  what nation will or can not ?  ICE has something like twenty thousand [20,000]employees in forty odd countries securing us immigration roles  .
   --You don't suppose you can find 20 who hate trump enough to write a letter ?
   --In a divided nation split 50/50 that percentage is low .
   --Open borders can't work for any country .
   --Alteration of ICE , only becomes stricter
   
   Abollish ICE ?, ..........Nothing burger
   
   Note ; Trump says " I love it that dems want to make abolishing ICE a political issue for Nov mid terms "

   replyreport