Weakness Like We Have Never Seen Before in a U.S. President

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   crankaliciousposted 6 years ago

   Today in Helsinki, President Trump sided with Russian President Vladimir Putin against the U.S. Intelligence services, basically stating that he believed there wasn't any interference by Russia in the U.S. elections and believing President Putin over his own intelligence agencies.
   
   This comes after a week in which President Trump effectively destabilized NATO, one of the most important organizations for U.S. and European security.
   
   Former CIA director John Brennan called the comments "nothing short of treasonous".
   
   What happened to the Republican Party that believed in law and order? That believed in the security of the United States?

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      ahorsebackposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      How about you stop editorializing and consider the side of real , complicated and extreme diplomatically spoken fact ? 
      - Russia hacked Face -book , wow shame on them.
      -They didn't affect one single voting machine .
      -They didn't affect one single vote.
      -They didn't collude with any American[to date].
      -Only Russians have been indicted .
      -Emotion based bias isn't law and order .
      
      To begin with .

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         crankaliciousposted 6 years agoin reply to this

         Hardly complicated. The U.S. President decided to side with the Russian president over his own intelligence services. The U.S. President decided to side with Russia over NATO. Republicans used to be hard-core for U.S. security. Now they're for buddying up to Russia over our own allies and our own intelligence services?

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            ahorsebackposted 6 years agoin reply to this

            One , how did he side with Russia ?
            Two, side with Russia over NATO ?
            Three ,Russia over his own intel and allies ?
            
            You are editorializing again , try a factual basis justification  for a change .   You need to try really really hard to put aside your emotional opinion here . And you guys call ME  biased !

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               crankaliciousposted 6 years agoin reply to this

               Everything on this board is interpretation and opinion. Some things happen by omission. In Trump's case:
               
               1. Our intelligence service says Russia interfered in the election and tried to sway the vote for Trump. Trump did not challenge Putin on this and said he believed Putin's denial.
               2. Trump did not raise the issue of Ukraine. By not raising something, it usually means you do not think it's an issue.
               
               A strong President would have challenged Putin's assertion that Russia didn't interfere in the U.S. elections. A strong President would have challenged Putin on Ukraine.
               
               That said, President Trump could have some other strategy with our Russian relations of which I am unaware, though officials from his own delegation seem to indicate otherwise. He was supposed to challenge Putin and he was supposed to acknowledge Russian interference. He just didn't.
               
               While Republicans aren't coming out and criticizing Trump, they are coming out and saying pretty emphatically what Trump will not, that the Russians interfered in our elections.
               
               We should all be concerned. Wait until some foreign government interferes to elect some Democrat. The precedent is being set right now.

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                  ahorsebackposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                  Well , you're editorizing still ,  Trump and Putin met afterwards [no press ] for one and a half hours , say nothing about the real diplomacy  ;John Bolton ,a proven workhorse  and I for one trust his part of this summit way more than Trump's and Putin's .
                  
                  You have to think deeply enough to imagine the language behind the image allowed for  media presentations.  Where the majority of negotiating goes on , especially with so much at stake for Putin and Russia [sanctions in place now ] ?

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                     crankaliciousposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                     When asked about Russian interference in the U.S. elections, Trump's words were: "I see no reason why it would have been Russia." So that is in direct conflict with the U.S. intelligence community's assessment of the situation. In fact, he put more weight on Putin's "powerful" denial.

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                        ahorsebackposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                        And yet , Would you deny that a certain and meaningful part of that blame doesn't reside in the pocket of the DNC management ?

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                           crankaliciousposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                           The DNC is responsible for Russian hacking? Isn't that like saying a woman is responsible for her own rape because of the short skirt she wore?
                           
                           And you're off-topic. I heard Trump blame Obama for Russian hacking. Why not blame Russia for Russian hacking?

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                              ahorsebackposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                              Obama said "...........It , It , it , it is preposterous to assume Russia or any other nation [stutter ]could influence US elections  ...........[ smirk, smirk  ]
                              
                              Hows his ignorance for that blame?
                              
                              "..........like saying a woman's short skirt is responsible ......"   Seems to me like the DNC in many many ways actually "dropped their pants "in anticipation "
                              We both know that .

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                                 crankaliciousposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                                 Not sure where you get your information. Care to provide a link? Here's one that directly contradicts that:
                                 
                                 https://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-news/vi … 2675139636
                                 
                                 https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/21/us/p … cking.html

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                     MizBejabbersposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                     AHB, you keep saying that Crankalicious is editorializing, but that is exactly what you are doing. At least he is supplying facts to back his opinions.

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            crankaliciousposted 6 years agoin reply to this

            I'm not sure I think you're a real person anymore, but a Russian stooge.

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         crankaliciousposted 6 years agoin reply to this

         https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status … index.html

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         letspartyliverpooposted 6 years agoin reply to this

         Deleted
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            ahorsebackposted 6 years agoin reply to this

            WE believe in Laws and enforcement , What we don't believe in is the fantasy that Trump and Russia is responsible in any way for the self destruction of the DNC from within , the self destruction of the Clinton campaign from within , the self delusion of the democratic party from with , AND the idiocy of a news Media so biased as to render it totally useless to discern these obvious facts and not promote false narratives.

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               crankaliciousposted 6 years agoin reply to this

               Flying Spaghetti Monster!!

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                  ahorsebackposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                  That's cute , when you can't debate you ridicule . better send in your re-subscription to liberal  debating classes.

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                     crankaliciousposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                     When you can't debate, you change the subject. When you can't contradict a fact or statement, you change the subject or make some vague statement that can't be disproved.
                     
                     Thus, Flying Spaghetti Monster!

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                        hard sunposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                        I sympathize here. It gets awkward trying to have a discussion, but someone continually brings things out of left field, makes wild assumptions, and seemingly forgets what the discussion is even about.
                        
                        It happens a lot when you point out someone simply made up a "fact" or a quote. It starts to seem pointless, but not calling out the clear contradictions and falsehoods is also against my nature.

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                           crankaliciousposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                           It's just parroting of Donald Trump, right? When somebody brings up Mueller's investigation, he brings up Hillary Clinton. These things are unrelated. Hillary had her own investigation.

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                              hard sunposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                              It's because they have nothing else to bring to the table. Empty, just like their god emperor.

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                                 ahorsebackposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                                 Now there is an incredibly brilliant debating point ,
                                 "He has a thing for his daughter "?   Did you read that  on CNN ?    Msnbc ,  Tell us ,  is that the extent of your party's political IQ ?
                                 
                                 Will THAT be the entire democratic platform for 2020 ?

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                                    hard sunposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                                    Who ever said I had a platform for the Democratic party? I don't even consider myself a Democrat rather an independent.
                                    
                                    I gotta say, Flying Spaghetti Monster makes more sense all the time.

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                                       ahorsebackposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                                       A okay ,  Hatson

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                                          hard sunposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                                          Okey dokey artichoke, lol

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      JAKE Earthshineposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      Not only is Bozo Trump committing the crime of treason at his fake meeting with is supervisor Vladimir Putin, it's just one more count in a multiple count indictment of this particular crime which must be enforced or it will give a license to any and all Americans to commit the very same atrocious act with impunity, a dangerously absurd precedent will be set if traitor Trump is not punished for his crime against the USA:
      
      This is just out of control and needs to stop:

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      PrettyPantherposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      The Republican party is now enabling a treasonous president.  Until or unless they take action, they will go down in history as complicit in the actions of this disgusting low-life we call "president."
      
      Horse is Exhibit A representing his base, who are too embarrassed to admit they voted for a corrupt, treasonous POS who is systematically working Putin's agenda and destabilizing the United States' position in the world. They'd rather twist themselves into ugly, dysfunctional knots to defend everything he does than admit they made a judgment so horrifically poor we should all question their ability to make rational choices in the future.
      
      They will also go down in history as stupid enablers of this lying POS's treasonous behavior.

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         ahorsebackposted 6 years agoin reply to this

         Pretty Panther ;Here's a wake up call for you , I am prouder of my President today than democrats could possibly imagine , Why?   Because none of you  can imagine what was said after the cameras were turned off !   Because none of you can imagine what John Bolton ----who is the real  diplomat that Russia has to appease --- to get sanctions dropped , to get back into the G7 , really is .
         
         Wake Up ! All of the Russian interloping in YOUR election is Clinton's fault , All of the cover up and appeasement to Putin is Hillary's fault  , All of the delay in investigations by the DOJ of Russia election collusion is Obama holdovers fault ,  ALL OF THE DNC corruption that cost you YOUR election , Is YOUR OWN PARTY'S  FAULT !
         Now what ?
         Live with your collective guilt !

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            PrettyPantherposted 6 years agoin reply to this

            

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               ahorsebackposted 6 years agoin reply to this

               Stupid picture  but here's a reality for you particularly , If the above were true ; We would actually land on the top of a soft pile of DNC party suicide victims .

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                  PrettyPantherposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                  You used to be funny. Now, you're scary, as is any U.S. citizen who continues to defend that lying, scumbag. POS traitor.

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                     ahorsebackposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                     Yes , and you are a worthy political opponent who's extremely knowledgeable and fully understand world politics and the incredibly complicated  field of foriegn diplomacy .
                     
                     
                     NOT!

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                        PrettyPantherposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                        Yeah, deflect by making $hit up. Typical.

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         2. 89

            crankaliciousposted 6 years agoin reply to this

            Sad. Some serious editorializing there. Not a single fact. I, for one, completely concede on the idiocy of the DNC, but it's got nothing to do with this topic unless you're so disconnected from logic that you make it connected. You're actually blaming Hillary Clinton for Donald Trump's appeasement of Putin. That is pretty amazing. You also seem to believe that no matter what Trump says or does, there is something going on behind the scenes to justify your belief in his greatness.
            
            Well, I will never be able to disprove or argue with your assertion that there's some unknown process going on behind the scenes that nobody ever talks about because I will never be privy to that process. If that's your rationale, then there is no point to discussing this with you.

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               ahorsebackposted 6 years agoin reply to this

               What did you actually see of their meeting BUT a five minute camera dance ?    Answer that ?    They met for an hour and a half AFTER the cameras ,  Think they played Russian Tiddly -Winks , think they didn't discuss way more than you see in that original ten minutes ?
               
               What do you think went on behind closed doors ?
               Bolton and his minions probably discussed much more than you realize.What do we know ? What do we deserve to be privy to ?
               
               This is foreign diplomacy not primetime TV for you or I.

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            2. 91

               MizBejabbersposted 6 years agoin reply to this

               He's working hard to make Russia Great Again! Not my words. Heck, even Fox News is saying that he threw the U.S. under the bus. John Roberts is saying that he has cost himself dearly politically.
               
               http://theweek.com/speedreads/785243/wa … -under-bus
               
               It's obvious that Putin came out of the news conference with a Red A$$ from all of Trump's lip prints on his posterior.

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                  PrettyPantherposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                  It's obvious to everyone except his willfully blind supporters.

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            Don Wposted 6 years agoin reply to this

            "Putin eats Trump's lunch in Helsinki -- This is no way to win against Russia
            
            For a sitting U.S. president to say publicly that he believes a foreign leader over his own intelligence team is shocking and admonishable. At a time when our democracy faces grave threats, it is deeply troubling that the president would side with the very country who attacked us".
            (Fox News)
            
            I dare you to call that left-wing bias.
            
            http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2018/07/ … ussia.html

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               promisemposted 6 years agoin reply to this

               Yes, maybe it is left-wing bias to some people. Some people are even more extreme than Fox News.
               
               They see anything to the left of them as liberal.

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         4. 91

            MizBejabbersposted 6 years agoin reply to this

            "It's Hillary's fault, it's Hillary's fault, la la la la la." That seems to be the only excuse you Trump-thumpers can give for your delusions. I get sick of hearing that. Can't any of you give us some logical reasons, or is that foreign (Russian) to you, too?

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               JAKE Earthshineposted 6 years agoin reply to this

               MizBejabbers: They get it from fox fake news: Believe it or not, they are still obsessed with the Clintons and strong, intelligent President Obama, it's all they talk about, I see it when I accidentally land on their channel while surfing cable: It's ridiculous: When you have no facts to back you up as your false idol charlatan dictator phony president goes down in flames, you come up with a lame defense such as the following:
               
               "Your honor, tribunal jurors, Mr. Trump did not commit all these crimes of humanity, nor did he commit the atrocious acts of treason because we HATE Hillary, Bill and President Obama"

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            MizBejabbersposted 6 years agoin reply to this

            Those arguments remind me of someone (was it Dr. Spock?) years ago who wrote that a child gets off the potty and looks at what he just deposited in it. He thinks to himself "I created that and I'm proud of it."

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               ahorsebackposted 6 years agoin reply to this

               The difference there is Trump's looking at a mess someone else created thinking "  I guess it's my job now to pick up this mess " and here's a secret , shhhhhhhhh!   He's doing just fine !

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               hard sunposted 6 years agoin reply to this

               Ha ha, funny and so true. Proud of what again?

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         wildernessposted 6 years agoin reply to this

         You've been reading too many of Jake's posts.  This could be one of his rant-without-reason episodes.

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            PrettyPantherposted 6 years agoin reply to this

            Yeah. I know, it gets to ya, doesn't it? Realizing you voted for a man (I use that word loosely) who is working hard to make Russia great again.

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               ahorsebackposted 6 years agoin reply to this

               I know one thing ,The people who know and operate within US diplomacy, including Trump ,  know FAR FAR more than you or I do,  I also know that IF the news media didn't pull against the success of Trump's overall job performance here and now ;  I would experience a heart attack . You seriously believe the news media knows all that happened in Helsinki ?
               
               I've got a bridge to sell you .

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               1. 89

                  crankaliciousposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                  I don't think I've ever seen a President get pilloried for boot-licking as much as Trump has. Trump ran up against a bully bigger and badder than him and cowered like a little baby. Both liberal and conservative media and letting him have it. Bullying only works until you come up against a bigger bully.

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                     ahorsebackposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                     Again and first , You have no idea what's being said except for your twisted news media ,   Second ,  The scale of Democratic and DNC bumbling with their parties confidential information is frankly suicide  by media , You think the US generals wouldn't and haven't  jumped on such info coming out of Russia for instance ?
                     
                     Shallow reactionary politics dissapears quickly .
                     
                     I still have that bridge to sell .

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                        crankaliciousposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                        Flying Spaghetti Monster.

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            MizBejabbersposted 6 years agoin reply to this

            I haven't read any of Jake's posts on this subject. I got up today and was watching the Morning Show on CBS. They ran the news conference with tRump and Pootin when I was shocked to my very bones to watch tRump go back on the promises he made to the people, including his followers.
            
            PrettyPanther, I didn't vote for him, although I hated Hillary's open border policies and couldn't stand Bernie. I haven't re-registered for the Democrat Party either. I think we need to take a harder look at the Libertarians next election. I hope they will come up with stronger candidates.

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               PrettyPantherposted 6 years agoin reply to this

               "I hope they will come up with stronger candidates."
               
               Here's the thing. There were 15 better candidates in the primaries. The Republican voters selected Trump. There was a better candidate than Hillary. The Democratic voters selected Hillary.
               
               People must stop whining and making excuses about bad candidates. They must become informed, be politically active, and get off their whiny duffs and WORK to help good candidates succeed. I'm sick of the excuses. Trump voters must take responsibility for what they unleashed upon the rest of us. Trump showed us exactly who he is, if you were paying attention.

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                  ahorsebackposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                  I am amazed at many of you here , who  seemed politically active at least , now seem so absolutely hypocritical herein complaining about this perceived weakness from  president Trump yet never once complained about the absolute and  perpetual weakness of Obama  diplomacy ACROSS THE BOARD !

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                     PrettyPantherposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                     Deflect. Deny. Make $h!t up.
                     
                     Oh. That's right. You're a Trump supporter. Still.

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                        ahorsebackposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                        And you're still as politically biased and uninformed of reality as our news media is.

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                     crankaliciousposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                     Yes, Obama was definitely weak on national security. Remember when he licked the boots of Osama Bin Laden, that nation's number one security threat?

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                        hard sunposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                        Now that's funny. I don't care who you are.

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                           wildernessposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                           I agree.  Even though his only contribution was to say "OK - do it" in reference to plans made long before him, it's still funny.

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                              hard sunposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                              Yeah, it is funny. We agree on something. At least he said do it..instead of well, maybe, I don't know I kinda think he may be our friend. Or maybe he could have tweeted something one day about Bin Laden, and then the next day stated the exact opposite.Then his supporters could all claim it's some sort of master genius plan. IDK.
                              
                              I didn't like everything Obama did, but at least the guy made sense and had some semblance of decency.

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                                 MizBejabbersposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                                 +100

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                                 crankaliciousposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                                 Here's the thing: no Democrat I know liked everything Obama did.

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                                    hard sunposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                                    Me either. The majority of Obama supporters just didn't seems blindly accept everything he did and said as though he were the Messiah. Remember when right wingers used to state Obama supporters all drank the kool aid. If that's true, Trump supporters are drinking gallons a day.

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                     MizBejabbersposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                     Ahorseback, I agree that you are deflecting, but I'll answer your charge anyway. I've stated on several forums that I always thought that Obama had some weak policies, except for his pro-Muslim dealings. I didn't vote for Obama because his whole campaign sounded like he would be weak and indecisive. I didn't and still don't like Hillary's open-border policy, but I can't stomach the Republican's anti-women policies. The female candidate...what was her name...said the first thing she would do would be to defund Planned Parenthood. That deprives many low-income women from health care, especially in a rural state like where I live. I know because when I was a single parent without insurance, I couldn't afford the price of proper care from a gynecologist for some physical problems I was having. I voted for Hillary because at least she recognizes women's right to exist and be more than chattel to men.

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                  wildernessposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                  "...get off their whiny duffs..."
                  
                  This from one whose entire post is just a rant of name calling and insults?

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               promisemposted 6 years agoin reply to this

               It's the Libertarian billionaires that now control the Republican Party. It's why the party has moved so far to the right and left people like me behind.

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      Eurofileposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      Here on the other side of the pond, we watch President's Trump's faux pas, as if we're watching a comic soap opera.  Then again I guess you guys in the States must be regarding the mess we've got ourselves into in the UK with Brexit, with some bemusement or even amusement!

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         JAKE Earthshineposted 6 years agoin reply to this

         I hope everyone realizes the 'Brexit Mess' was the result of Russian espionage and manipulation, a gigantic victory for Vladimir Putin just like his unthinkable victory of embedding what appears to be his compromised, weakling stooge in our oval office:

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            Eurofileposted 6 years agoin reply to this

            Wind the clock back over 2 years and I wouldn't have imagined either Brexit would get voted through or that you would have President Trump!  Still, it could have been worse for us.  Boris Johnson could have been Prime Minister after the Brexit vote.  it's a funny old world!

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   IslandBitesposted 6 years ago

   "None of that is real, all of that is fake. You made history, but that doesn't mean you have to change history," he said, adding that Trump "demeans" his office by taking "cheap shots" at predecessors including former President Barack Obama.
   
   "It's not about decorum, it's about integrity," he said of Trump's apparent reluctance to confront America's rivals such as Putin and North Korea's Kim Jong Un to their faces. "On foreign soil at least you might consider praising our enemies less."
   
   http://insider.foxnews.com/2018/07/16/n … terference
   
   *Watch the video

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      ahorsebackposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      Putin has a far better conceptual grasp on  the reality of politics , diplomacy , foreign influences even on American elections that even our own news media does .  Certainly better than even democrats do of their own freaky party .  And up to today ,liberals would rather eat goose shyte than listen to Chris Wallace on Fox News .
      
      Do liberals ever love the taste of hypocrisy however !

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         Credence2posted 6 years agoin reply to this

         And Putin is obviously much smarter than Trump, "the stable genius". The man played Trump like a fiddle and made a total fool out of him, which is not really too difficult.

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         crankaliciousposted 6 years agoin reply to this

         I enjoy the Flying Spaghetti Monster defense.

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         promisemposted 6 years agoin reply to this

         Aha! We now have proof. You are Russian.
         
         And here I thought all along you worked for the Democrats. 

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            ahorsebackposted 6 years agoin reply to this

            There is simply a media generated hysteria about Russia , while most on the left and a lot on the right need to study even a little on the history between the east and the west in their  ideological games in political warfare .
            
            There is just so much political ignorance in our media today ,  I blame it on an overabundance of younger so called journalists vying for media  attention at present .

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               promisemposted 6 years agoin reply to this

               Aha again! You aren't denying that you are Russian!

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                  ahorsebackposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                  Yea I'm Russian alright ,  like many of  you on the left are actually politically well informed .

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               crankaliciousposted 6 years agoin reply to this

               You obviously bow to the Sean Hannity God.

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   Castlepalomaposted 6 years ago

   Trump warns Russia missiles 'will be coming' in response to suspected gas attack
   
   The relationship between the United States and Russia is worse now than it ever was — including during Cold War, according to U.S. President Donald Trump.
   
   So why do Trump fans insist on Relationships between Russia and US is better?

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   Credence2posted 6 years ago

   I thought a pause was in order, perhaps a little bit of levity. I don't know what reminded me of this scene relative to these current events, but anyway
   
   https://youtu.be/38ETQ1RYa_Q

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   Glenis Rixposted 6 years ago

   Eurofile, don’t speak too soon. We might still end up with Boris in Number 10. God forbid!

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   ahorsebackposted 6 years ago

   While you guys commiserate about opposing debating styles  and direct or indirect points think about this , If you cannot beat said points of the debate  , drop out  ......but please stop whining like campus queens.

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      hard sunposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      You dropped out before you even started with nothing relevant to contribute. That has nothing to do with debating styles. Not addressing the discussion is a distraction as opposed to a debating style. And, you have no idea what I've been through so name calling is uncalled for. I even served in the Army for you have the right to call me names.
      
      But, since you started it. I'd rather be a campus queen, than an ignorant jester who worships a clown who seems to have a thing for his daughter.

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