PRO......CON

1. 82

   gmwilliamsposted 6 years ago

   
   What HAS President Trump DONE for America?   Would you vote for Trump again in 2020?   What is your SYNOPSIS of America under Trump?

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      Castlepalomaposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      He is tall and funny, that's about all the pros I can think of. There is not enough time to list all his cons.

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   2. 87

      crankaliciousposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      The CONS far outweigh the PROS, but I will actually list some PROS unlike, I'm sure, other liberals. The problem is, the CONS are so alarming, so vile, that it threatens the future of our country's political system.
      
      PROS:
      
      Immigration - it's an issue. The borders can't be open. Illegal Immigrants can't continue to flow into the country unabated. He's forcing Congress to do something. Congress makes the laws, not the President, and they have just ducked this issue to no end. I don't agree with how he's handling it, but just moving the needle is probably better than nothing.
      
      Taxes - I don't approve of his tax cuts for the wealthy, but I do approve of the idea of increasing the personal exemption so fewer people have to file a difficult tax return. That's a very simple, smart way to improve the tax code.
      
      China - Again, an issue that virtually no politician will address. The fact remains, China steals our intellectual property, but because they own so much of our debt, no political challenges them. He's right about China. The trade relationship is unbalanced and needs to be fixed.
      
      Banks.- He did something yesterday no President usually does, which is he commented on the Fed's increase of interest rates. He said it's bad for the economy. I appreciated that.
      
      North Korea: Time will tell if his efforts were positive or negative, but he bucked convention and sat down with them. That seems like it should be a good thing.
      
      CONS:
      
      Press - He once again tweeted that the "real enemy of the people" is the fake news media, right after Helsinki. He won't tweet that Russia is our enemy. It's the fake news media. This includes CNN, The New York Times, and the Washington Post. This is a comment that every vile dictator in history has made and has been the beginning of dictatorships around the world, throughout history. Remember, our enemies must be defeated (which usually means killed). There will be violence against the fake news media and it will be the beginning of the end of our country and on the hands of everyone who supports Trump. Hatred of the free press is hatred of America.
      
      If he truly believes that the real enemy of the people is the fake news media, then he supports eliminating the fake news media, which includes killing them. This is some vile rhetoric and dangerous.
      
      Support of Dictators: He seems to love "strong" leaders. To him, that seems to mean leaders with absolute power. It's scary.
      
      Relationship to Putin: Every bit of circumstantial evidence suggests that there is something nefarious going on. The willingness to collude has already been proved by Donald Trump Jr.'s meeting. Where there's a willingness, there's a way.
      
      Immigration: setting up concentration camps doesn't seem like the way to go.
      
      Regulation: He's against most types of regulation and is working to remove them. Remember, this is what crashed the economy during the last Republican administration. I'm not saying we need crippling regulation, but we need reasonable regulations.
      
      There are a bunch of other things, obviously, but those are just a few.

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2. 60

   Live to Learnposted 6 years ago

   Things we can all agree on.
   
   Thus far it appears the stock market has reacted exceedingly well to the Trump presidency. That's a good thing.
   
   I also think Trump has pushed to the point that we will see Congress finally enact fair and sustainable changes to our immigration policy. We have to have enforceable rules, which we haven't, thus far. That's a good thing.
   
   Although there is mounting evidence that North Korea has no intention of following through with statements of conciliatory gestures it was willing to make I think Trump's attempt to have dialogue was stellar.
   
   His space policy directive to work toward the expansion of our race through the solar system was stupendous, although I'm a nut about space exploration.
   
   Our unemployment rate is at a historic low under his watch.
   
   Trump has faults, definitely. But, I think many hate for hate's sake; unwilling to give credit when due.

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3. 75

   Castlepalomaposted 6 years ago

   Assuming Pros of Trump
   
   Pro Thus stock market is exceedingly well through Trump.
   Con- Presidents have very little control on the economy. Historical experience has shown that the stock market can be volatile and even worse — disconnected from the trends in economic fundamentals — sway the lofty optimism away from ethics. There are multiple reasons for this, but at the core is a widespread misconception perpetrated by the field of economic science itself. I believe wall Street are often criminals harming true free markets.
   
   Pro -Trump pushed to the point that we will see Congress fair and sustainable immigration policy. We have to have enforceable rules.
   Con-  Banned Muslims is unconstitutional especially when these countries kill no American on their soil. There are too many meaningless rules.
   Mexican are the largest native group inheritance in America. US has seriously con them like other American natives. How about send Trump back to Scotland. Oh forget! they don't want him neither.
   
   Pro. Trump's attempt to have dialogue was stellar with North Korea..
   Con. China pays lip service to Trump, they have no intention of closing down North korea banks account nor close realationships with North Korea. They need each other OR NWO will crush them with nukes.
   
   Pro Space policy directive to work toward the expansion of our race through the solar system.
   Con. Trump put 30℅ tariffs on solar panels, no advantagement for space exploration, Trump mind is lost in space.
   
   Pro. Unemployment rate is at a historic low.
   Con. Goverments have tampered with employment rate.  When Kennedy GDP was at 5.6 and unemployment was 6.8 and almost everyone had a job. The GDP has progressively gotten worst every President. Trump said Obama unemployment rate was as high as 42.00 as he is an extreme BSer.
   
   Pro. Banks.- Trump Fed's increase of interest rates. He said it's bad for the economy. I appreciated that.
   Con. Trump is the front man for Rothschilds and Rockefellers as they paved his career. He will keep everyone fighting each, wail powers to be steal your money. God needs your money too. They never have enough, we can't harm their record profits.

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      wildernessposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      "Con-  Banned Muslims is unconstitutional especially when these countries kill no American on their soil."
      
      How is that a con when it never happened?
      
      "Mexican are the largest native group inheritance in America."
      
      What "inheritance" do citizens of Mexico have in the US?  Do you think we own foreign citizens anything at all?
      
      "The GDP has progressively gotten worst every President."
      
      As GDP has increase every year, but for a couple of exceptions such as 2009 when it decreased a tick, how has it "progressively gotten worse with ever president"?

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         Live to Learnposted 6 years agoin reply to this

         Interjecting facts? You know that just creates contention.

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      2. 87

         crankaliciousposted 6 years agoin reply to this

         I really enjoy it when people who share my ideology make it harder for the ideology to seem legitimate by just making things up.

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            wildernessposted 6 years agoin reply to this

            I wouldn't count on Castle sharing much of your ideology.  From what I can tell he's an anarchist - no government and might makes right.

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            1. 75

               Castlepalomaposted 6 years agoin reply to this

               First a bio -organism and environmentalist.  There are some Governments that are acceptable for all individuals, just not slave owners like in the US. They started out with slaves so they could be Free men,   as the contradiction continuous.

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            2. 87

               crankaliciousposted 6 years agoin reply to this

               I guess I mean to say people who seem to be on roughly the same political side of an argument. Left-of-center.

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      3. 75

         Castlepalomaposted 6 years agoin reply to this

         Trump is the world champion in Lawsuits, that is a con, not a pro.
         
         Trump Banned 7 countries was suppose to be temporary. Butt, he trying to make it permanent against the first amendment. he has expanded other countries on the Ban. Trump said it because of 9/11. Where these countries that nothing to do with 9/11.  To expand on what W Bush said,  9/11 could of been an inside job (on youtube)
         
         Since age 8 North America history has been my specialty and professional for 43 years. Building native displays in themes parks, film Museum and touring exhibition.
         
         The United States acquired the northern half of Mexico. United States purchased the Louisiana Territory from France in 1803, there ... of the colony of Mexico, was inviolable terrain, it could not be included in other area later of Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico and Utah about half of New Mexico, about a quarter of Colorado, and a small section of Wyoming. and 1845, the United States offered to purchase California from Mexico, for $5 million, they refuse then the
         U.S.-Mexican War—(1846-1848): began.
         
         
         "Manifest Destiny"; the belief that America had a God-given right to expand the country's borders from 'sea to sea'. In this process, whites perpetrated horrible crimes against Mexic boys were taken by force out of their homes to be murdered, the women and little girls would be raped, murdered, their homes would be set on fire, and their animals would be slaughtered.“Texans” placed themselves in land plots, and later enlarged their population so that by 1835 there were more white foreigners than native Mexicans in the area, and called the stolen lands “Republic of Texas.”
         
         Mexico war, tensions between the two largest independent nations on the North American US sought a war in order to seize large tracts of land from Mexico.. Then Americans migrated westward in ever increasing numbers, into lands not belonging to the United State. With the high ideals that Protestant Christian would do a better job of running things than the Native Americans and Mexicans.
         
           In 1835, Texas revolted, and after several bloody battles, This treaty gave Texas its independence, but many as a result of the savage frontier fighting, the American public developed a very negative stereotype against the Mexican people and government.
         After the beginning of hostilities, the U.S. military embarked on a three-pronged strategy designed to seize control of northern Mexico and force an early peace.
         agreed to pay $15 million to Mexico as compensation for the seized territory.  And in many of the battles, the superior cannon of the U.S. artillery divisions and the innovative tactics of their officers turned the tide against the Mexicans. The war cost the United States over $100 million, and ended the lives of 13,780 U.S. military personnel.
         Mexico gained independence from Spain in 1821. This war drained Mexico out which contributed to further neglect its Northern territories. While Mexico was at war with Spain, thousands of white colonists, cattleman, adventures, and mercenaries, were coming from other parts of North America that had been already invaded and occupied looking for land and gold they could find and obtain “by any means.”

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         1. 95

            wildernessposted 6 years agoin reply to this

            So it was anyone on certain countries, not Muslims.  You need to take a little more (or a lot more) care with your terminology: "Muslim" is not a "country".
            
            Whatever we took from Mexico wasn't theirs anyway; it belonged to the Indians the Mexicans (Spanish) took it from.  Right?  So we should give it all back to the Indians and go take some from Europeans so we have something to live on - they're the same color (have to leave anyone not caucasian behind) so that would make it all right.

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               ahorsebackposted 6 years agoin reply to this

               And "Manifest Destiny" is a direct result of history . Pure and simply put it is a result of who we were then and who we are now!
               
               Like the rest of reality .............it's all about today!

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               1. 75

                  Castlepalomaposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                  If I came to your home and Murdered your family or shipped them out to another country.
                  Is that the reality of manifesto destiny?
                  
                  That's genocide in my books. Try my dreams with deadlines approach, only rule, no harm.

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            2. 75

               Castlepalomaposted 6 years agoin reply to this

               All these countries all happen by coincidence were Muslims countries. The reason for it, is US plans to attack Muslims countries for their oil and pipelines. It all backfiring because many middle Eastern countries are banning together to trade directly with Asia and European markets.
               
               Mexicans are the largest tribe in North America. They lived there long before the European invading.  Calling natives indains for centuries was another con job. Same with deporting over the Mexican drug called marijuana. All those wars was not for nothing, European stolen their land. Not saying gringos go home, just share, don't steal.

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               1. 95

                  wildernessposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                  "The reason for it, is US plans to attack Muslims countries for their oil and pipelines."
                  
                  Of course!  That it is Muslim terrorists killing people all over the world never entered into it.  And that it is those countries that could not vet their travelers didn't either.
                  
                  Let's at least try and be truthful, not putting our pet conspiracy theories into Trump's mind.
                  
                  Mexicans are citizens of the country of Mexico.  There are about 3 Americans for each Mexican.  Again, let's not put personal definitions into a discussion - it makes the statement that there are more Mexicans than anything else such an obvious falsehood.

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                  1. 75

                     Castlepalomaposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                     The War on Terror, also known as the Global War on Terrorism, is an .... In May 1996 the group World Islamic Front for Jihad Against Jews and Crusaders ...
                     
                     Where in reality is America/Israel and Nato is the leading terrorist by 100 to 1 Islamic body count worldwide. Most of the world knows it.
                     
                     Then within America the leading terrorist is alt right Republican over American Muslim 10 to 1.
                     
                     Turn the guns and bomb onto yourselves, before stealing and Murdered Muslims form their families and resources.
                     
                     One time there were 5 times more Aboriginal native in the Americas than European in Europe, Mexico city was larger than any city in Europe.
                     Imagine the genocides to make everything reversed.

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      4. 83

         My Esotericposted 6 years agoin reply to this

         Regarding GDP, I think the reference was (or should have been) in rate of growth.  While yes GDP, even in constant dollars generally increases year over year, the rate of growth has declined over time.

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4. 0

   ahorsebackposted 6 years ago

   Lower federal courts with liberal judges shelved Trumps travel ban , right ?  Until  those obstructed issues made their way up to  SCOTUS, 
   
   SCOTUS says .....Okay Donald !
   
   Any questions ?
   
   That was Trump impeachment reason # One , now at # 169.

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   1. 83

      My Esotericposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      You do know that 1) what SCOTUS approved, wrongly in my opinion, was his third attempt at being constitutional and 2) several of the "liberal judges" who ruled against Trump were Bush and Reagan appointees.

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         ahorsebackposted 6 years agoin reply to this

         So all they had to do was take out any reference to muslims or Islam ........And the courts okayed the travel ban from virtually the same regions , That was a tough one ?
         Not.

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         1. 75

            Castlepalomaposted 6 years agoin reply to this

            Wondered if we ban Christians. Why not they just Copycat kings.
            The Constitution fathers never mention God. They only slide a few Yahweh amendment to contradict and conflict with the true fairness and diversity of the original American Constitution. Many amendments were unfair up to amendment 13 and 14th.
            
            Christianity is nothing more than a patchwork quilt of ancient pagan and mystery religions.” The Church borrowed heavily from pagan deities already in existence or long before the time of Jesus.  Rejected by the academic community, because historical facts don’t support it, it lingers as a vague idea in popular culture.  it’s quickly apparent that the differences are actually much greater than any commonalities.

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               ahorsebackposted 6 years agoin reply to this

               Takes hundreds of  times more faith to believe in absolute atheism and sparky creationism . You guys are working way too hard to deny us a simple easy  faith .
               Think about that Castle my friend .

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                  Castlepalomaposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                  Since non believers is the fastest growing group in the world. It won't take much faith in figuring out what is up or down or sideway or what group is mostly fiction like Creatiism. Vice President Pence wants Creatiism in every school in the Nation. 
                  
                  Since over 92℅ of scientist are non believers, fat chance of making the Creatism fairytales into absolute truth or reality's.
                  I love fairytales, just not when they tell me donkeys and snakes can speak English.

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                     ahorsebackposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                     Gee , Could it be that atheism is growing it's numbers because  the population is growing ?
                     Be fair Castle .

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                     1. 75

                        Castlepalomaposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                        National Geographic
                        The religiously unaffiliated, called "nones," are growing significantly. They’re the second largest religious group in North America and most of Europe. In the United States, nones make up almost a quarter of the population. In the past decade, U.S. nones have overtaken Catholics, mainline protestants, and all followers of non-Christian faiths.
                        A lack of religious affiliation has profound effects on how people think about death, how they teach their kids, and even how they vote. Recent surveys are finding that it’s happening startlingly fast. Religion is rapidly becoming less important than it’s ever been.

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                           ahorsebackposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                           You should probably look at the latest  Harvard studies , Liberal too , Although leading US church memberships may be down some  they found that members are actually moving to other churches and that "christianity is  as healthy in numbers as ever  in the US .".....So my guess is that simply because of population growth  alone , BOTH atheists and theist numbers are growing .
                           
                           So when you make certainly biased statements like ,
                           " Religion is rapidly becoming less important than ..........."     You're just simply projecting personal hopes
                           rather than facts .     Fact.

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                              Castlepalomaposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                              My reality was I was not allowed to even discuss Religion about 15 years ago. With my brother  a pastor ,and father Catholics. Now the Pope believes in Evolution, Big bang, Aliens, hell dose not exist and dogs go to heaven. Can't you clearly see where this is all heading.
                              
                              The future of religion in America is young, non-Christian and technicolor.
                              Horse it's probably why you think the youth is a little on the dumb side, not me.
                              
                              Almost all denominations, give way to younger members, who tend to be of different races, according to a study released by the Public Religion Research Institute.
                              
                              American evangelicals — once seemingly immune to the decline experienced by their Catholic and mainline Protestant neighbors —  are losing numbers and losing them quickly. As atheists, agnostics and those who say they do not identify with any particular religion — the group known as the “nones”  — hold steady at about one-quarter (24 percent) of the population.
                              
                              This report provides solid evidence of a new, second wave of white Christian decline, said Robert P. Jones, PRRI’s CEO and author of “The End of White Christian America.”

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                                 ahorsebackposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                                 Well for those who promote the hate  of "...........White Christian America............. ' then yes -major- church memberships for them are in decline because THEY are in decline , but not christianity itself in America .  Over 35-37 % of America considers itself Christian according to Harvard's poll .................   Don't forget Castle , the fastest growing people in America are primarily Christians aren't they ? The Hispanics .

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                                    Castlepalomaposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                                    I'm not capable of hate, it contradicts with my loving everyone. A guy like Richard Dawkins who gets hate mail. He calls them, love letters because Christians are suppose to love their enemies.
                                    
                                    For worldwide religious knowledge, the Hispanic Catholics are the least informed group in the World. It's like they don't take their Catholic seriously. Not serious like they take their football or dancing samba.

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                                       ahorsebackposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                                       Oh , I'm not sure we can call Catholics by the moniker dancing samba ..................... but I saw liberals dancing once ........................or were they running ?

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5. 80

   Wesman Todd Shawposted 6 years ago

   I see the entire thing as civilization vs. neoliberalism. I choose civilization, and so will vote Trump in 2020
   
   
   

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   1. 87

      crankaliciousposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      Says several people who clearly don't know the definition of Communism.

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   2. 83

      My Esotericposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      I was going to say that Crank, but you took the words right out of my mouth.  I suspect people who say such things are unpatriotic fascists, don't you?

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         Wesman Todd Shawposted 6 years agoin reply to this

         Of course a communist would call anyone who is not a communist a 'fascist.' The good thing about communists, though, is they kill more communists than anyone else.
         
         It's constant puritanism, a real disease. And the Democratic party has it. Luckily, it is self defeating - just like the Democrats in the 2016 election.
         
         I can hardly wait for November and my straight Republican ticket. What could be more unpatriotic than more than a year and a half later, insisting the POTUS isn't legitimate, and hoping for his failure?
         
         That's the US Democratic party and its associated fake news media. Can't wait to see more of Trump's cleaning it up and throwing it out.
         
         
         

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            Castlepalomaposted 6 years agoin reply to this

            That is a what America has got. A leader who is only as smart as the Bronze age.

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            Live to Learnposted 6 years agoin reply to this

            Wow. I knew his hair was other worldly orange but it even glows in the dark? Fire the hairdresser now. That's creepy weird.

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6. 82

   gmwilliamsposted 6 years ago

   As people are becoming more educated, they are becoming less religious.  Remember, religion is geared towards the gullible & less educated.   Less educated people tend to be religious.  Highly educated people see through religion & its superstitious, retrogressive rhetoric.

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      ahorsebackposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      
      
      Of late , retrogression is the actual trademark of supposed intectuallism  , you cannot deny that GM.

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         Castlepalomaposted 6 years agoin reply to this

         I think you need to talk it over politically to your imaginary friend the sock puppet. Plus get some advice from the talking donkey or snake.  Do it without magic or it could get pretty evil.

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            ahorsebackposted 6 years agoin reply to this

            If the intellectualism that  is reflected in the average forum dweller here , It's entirely no wonder that your younger generations can't even do simple math , open  a car door without help, go through a day without the help of "medications " and attend a six hour class without having an emotional safe space. It's no wonder America is "in the shape she's in "

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   2. 83

      My Esotericposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      I do have to agree with that.  While I can't buy into atheism, it is clear all religion is is another way to dominate the masses.
      
      Now like monarchies, there are those who benefit their subjects and do great good and those who take advantage of them and do great harm.  The more fundamentalists religion is, the more harmful it is to both its subjects and non-subjects.  The more liberal a religion is generally the more good it does all around.

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   3. 87

      crankaliciousposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      GM +1000000000000

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      1. 75

         Castlepalomaposted 6 years agoin reply to this

         ++++++

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         1. 60

            Live to Learnposted 6 years agoin reply to this

            That's cool. Jesus was uneducated. Look what he figured out. The Dalai Llama said Buddhism was difficult (if not impossible) for smart people.  That's probably because we think our ways away from the simple universal truths and the more learning we possess the more we attempt to use it to enslave others to our point of view.
            
            The funny thing is that we vilify the less educated and find ourselves further away from the things which matter most in the process of digging our heels in their backs.

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            1. 75

               Castlepalomaposted 6 years agoin reply to this

               The system is seriously broken. It needs to crash and burn so the power of the people take control of themselves better. I am not investing much until it crashes, like the US dollar will crash, then followed by a series of wars.
               
               I do have faith in people will get sick and tired of the puppeteers of Religion, militarily and politicans and will change things for the better again. It won't be Religion or politics that will change anything positive.

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                  Live to Learnposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                  LOL. You aren't investing until the system crashes. Do you have any idea what that says?
                  
                  Probably not. But, it shows an attitude simular to those you rail against. Which is why there will never be enough on board for positive change. Because, your statement is selfish. Many, like yourself, are just hoping for a different deck stacked in your favor.

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                     Castlepalomaposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                     It's about equality, you can only stack the deck as a heirachary systems. In which you support with your soul, because they own your soul and ass.

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