Dear Senator Warren, Witness the First Error of Your Campaign

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   Credence2posted 4 years ago

   https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- … SKCN1QA2WF
   
   Dear Senator Warren, I have to call you out on what I consider to be the first major mistake in your campaign. Your pledge to address reparations for African-americans who were economically affected by the institution of Slavery is the wrong way to go. While, I will always believe that the legacy of slavery, Jim Crow and the interminable racism associated with those periods have a great deal to do  with why Black folks tend to be economically disadvantaged today, trying to explain that to white populations in general is like communicating with all those ‘heroes of the Confederacy’ statues that they all seem to revere so much.
   
   However, this latest proposal is politically unpalatable and divisive. I want you to destroy the hierarchal system that seems to advantage a few over the many. I want the money changers, the finance industry held to account for abuses. I want you to get the tentacles of the wealthy, the corporate class, their advocates and lobbyists out of Washington, curbing both their political and economic influence. I welcome the more involved “structural changes” that you propose to the way things have been done.
   
   
   This a battle between the have and have-not not one based on race, per se. No need to pander to me, I know what is at stake, economic and political racism and race based inequality is just a branch of the tree. Focus on cutting down the tree, and we have gone a long way in dealing with the branches. The idea of a revisit on the current policies is something that would appeal to most everyone, except the very wealthy. Trump made the promise of reining in the “elites”, he got the disaffected to buy into a promise that was nothing more than a lie, as he could do nothing to turn on his own class neither politically nor from and economic standpoint.
   
   I will work with my own folks to get them to recognize that many of our problems are just a subset of far greater ones. So, many will have to be enticed  away from the “Underground Railroad” sort of thinking and shown the “big picture” and how we need to ally with other economically disaffected groups for a cohesive following and message. Making this a “Black Thang” is not going to help but will divide and give comfort to the real enemy allowing them to continue to gloat.

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      JAKE Earthshineposted 4 years agoin reply to this

      One error does not a bad candidate make Credence2, and even with her shortcomings as everyone has, shes absolutely far superior of a legitimate leader than this moronic racist slob in the oval office:
      
      Senator Warren will destroy any republican candidate in 2020 because of her policies like Health-Care for ALL and a higher minimum wage, two things Bozo Trump and Russian Republicans have been sabotaging from the day he was sworn in, and her republican opponent in 2020 won't be Donald Trump because if we still have laws, he'll be falsely repenting in a cold, dark damp prison right next to big Bubba long before that election arrives: And everyone knows Big Bubba Hates cowardly old 72 year old men who tell followers to vote for an alleged child molester:

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         Credence2posted 4 years agoin reply to this

         Hi, Jake, we all agree that Trump has got to go.
         
         We progressives are a 'family', I don't want anything that would divide us into factions, providing a divide and conquer approach for the Republicans, thereby giving Trump another term.

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            PrettyPantherposted 4 years agoin reply to this

            You have a good point.

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               Credence2posted 4 years agoin reply to this

               Better a disagreement among friends over trying to negotiate with an intractable enemy
               
               Bill Mahr

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            JAKE Earthshineposted 4 years agoin reply to this

            I don't see any divide in the democratic party, we ALL want the same things for ALL Americans even for the few remaining LOST Trump followers despite themselves, and that is Health-CARE for ALL, Higher Minimum Wage for ALL Workers, Enhanced Social Security and Medicare  for ALL Seniors:
            
            And sorry people, someday when you discover alternate words other than RETARDED Moron to describe this unholy racist abomination I'm ALL ears: STILL makes the skin crawl to think he occupies our oval office: Just ONE reason WHY he'll either be in prison or stomped on in 2020 by a Democratic Presidential Candidate:
            
            Lovely isn't it ??
            
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcklUUIsdcw

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         GA Andersonposted 4 years agoin reply to this

         Good ol' Jake, you never disappoint.
         
         8 words addressing a non-Trump thread topic, and 122 words inserting Trump into it.
         
         GA

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            PrettyPantherposted 4 years agoin reply to this

            He has a very special talent.  :-)

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               GA Andersonposted 4 years agoin reply to this

               I understand that you have to say that PrettyPanther. He is 'family' after all. ;-)
               
               GA

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                  PrettyPantherposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                  Now, now, if you read Jake's posts very carefully he only insults Trump.  He refers to Trump's dwindling fan base, or Trump's gullible followers, or things of that nature, but that's the closest he gets to dissing anyone besides Trump.  That's actually WAY better than many of the posters on here who constantly make negative generalizations about "the left" or "the right" or insult other posters' intelligence.  There is a reason Jake doesn't get banned. He's actually very polite to other posters, comparatively speaking.
                  
                  And he does have a special talent.  I read his posts to my husband.  He loves them. :-)

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                     IslandBitesposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                     I must admit I can't. I just don't read 99% of his comments. He's too much for my taste, even though Im sure I'll agree with at least 85% of what he says. Sorry, Jake!
                     
                     
                     I just can't! Same way I don't read almost anything from one or two right-wing users or from the one user that swears she's not on the right boat.
                     
                     (But I'm sure you're right. I don't think he's been in trouble.)

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                     GA Andersonposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                     Regarding your husband, is that like sharing the Sunday comics? (oooooh, that was bad. Must be that damn devil on my shoulder, sorry Jake, it was a joke)
                     
                     GA

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                     JAKE Earthshineposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                     Thanks for clarifying that for everyone PP, you are correct, the ONLY person who I criticize and deservedly so is indeed the unhinged racist slob perched in our oval office and how on Earth could any rational individual possibly have a sane, normal discussion about a mad man nut case who admitted on global television that he "Fell In LOVE" with another mad man named Kim Jung Un ???? Are you serious ??
                     
                     What else could you possible do but sharply criticize an IDIOT like that who acts moronic in front of the world while sabotaging our Health-Care System and then pretends to be our president ???? He doesn't represent me nor millions upon millions of other Americans I can tell you that much:

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      gmwilliamsposted 4 years agoin reply to this

      +100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000, Cred.

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         Credence2posted 4 years agoin reply to this

         Thanks...

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      promisemposted 4 years agoin reply to this

      "I have said in the past — and I'll repeat again — that the best reparations we can provide are good schools in the inner city and jobs for people who are unemployed" - Barrack Obama

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         Credence2posted 4 years agoin reply to this

         Seems like there is difficulty even accomplishing this, Promisem.

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            promisemposted 4 years agoin reply to this

            Black unemployment rate is lowest in history -- thanks to Donald Trump. 
            
            Likewise, education levels among blacks are rising at a much faster rates than whites. Of course, to your point, there is much work left to do. But the stats show continuous improvement.
            
            

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               Credence2posted 4 years agoin reply to this

               Thanks, Promisem, hopes spring eternal.

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                  GA Andersonposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                  And, as we have seen, with each new generation that "hope" has been justified Cred.
                  
                  My support for that thought is that I can honestly say that I think, to my kids, (43, 32 & 23), the color of skin is a non-issue until someone makes an issue of it, and then their response is puzzlement as to why someone would make an issue of it.
                  
                  I don't think that is a statement to my parenting, but more a statement to the evolution of our society.
                  
                  Of course, there are still idiots and knotheads, and racist A-holes, but as a rule, I think our kids are more than just a generation ahead of us. There will still be racists, even when we are all tan, but that's life. We will deal with it.
                  
                  Now, talking about A-holes, how else would you describe the Dem candidates, (Warren, Kammala, ?, (forgot the 3rd one), that are publically supporting reparations. Would it be a stretch to call that the ultimate racism?
                  
                  GA

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                     Credence2posted 4 years agoin reply to this

                     GA, I can't say that things have not gotten better within my lifetime. But, it has taken so long and came at such great price. My opening speaks to my attitude about reparations, to the general disadvantage blacks, for example, find themselves in, which had been established in the past. It just can't be explained "by not working hard enough". I generally agree with the belief, that what occurred yesterday has a bearing as to where one is today. It is not realistic to believe anything else. There is no such thing about the past being bygone, and forgotten, not in America.
                     
                     I also mentioned in the opening, that while I believe there has always been a moral case for reparations, the idea cannot be applied in any practical way and is divisive politically, when the Left needs to be unified in the face of the Right and its strategy to divide and conquer.
                     
                     I like Warren implicitly as a disassembler of the status quo taking the battle ax against the military industrial complex, exploitive financial interests and its unethical manner both domestically and abroad. Who has the courage to grapple with the great beast instead of just merely accommodating it?
                     
                     I don't like her as a pander-bear, because she has been ruthless in pursuit of the money changers and their "so called"  hierarchal privileges relative to the rest of us "insolent rabble". Warren is making the mistake of being a Hillary Clinton, to try to appeal to everyone, as too many of our group want race specific remedies as part of a national party platform. I don't need Warren  to go to the nearest Baptist Church and sing ole Negro spirituals. She needs, instead, to be engaged in the task at hand, involving substantial structural change of the status quo. In the light of so great an endeavor, she should not waste her time trying to pander to me.
                     
                     Reparations is not racism but remains an unpalatable idea that will go nowhere politically and serve to divide the progressive constituency into factions unnecessarily, when we need all hands on deck to fight Trump and Republicans.

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                        wildernessposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                        "the idea cannot be applied in any practical way and is divisive politically, when the Left needs to be unified in the face of the Right and its strategy to divide and conquer."
                        
                        Sad, isn't it, when good ideas and thoughts, or even bad ones, are shunted aside in order to maintain lockstep political partisanship?
                        
                        While I disagree with reparations (forcing people innocent of any wrongdoing to pay for alleged wrongdoings to someone else 100 years ago) to be a very bad idea, the thought that it cannot be discussed because it might harm the solidarity of political partisanship is at least as repulsive.  That's the concept that has nearly destroyed our government's ability to operate.

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                           Credence2posted 4 years agoin reply to this

                           I get the gist of your comment.
                           
                           The survivors are off spring of Nisei that were forceable removed and interned during WWiI deserved reparations, don't you think so? Look at what was stolen, the businesses and economic wherewithal and their freedom. How many millions of dollars were stolen from them as part of that process? It turned out that there were reparations made to survivors and offspring(?) during the 1980s. Most of the perpetrators of these crimes against these American citizens of Japanese descent, were dead even by the 1980s. But those reparations were justified all the same. How many Anglos would go through the same thing without making a fuss?
                           
                           The US government recognized the wrong against these people and thought that adjustments were appropropiate. The German government recognized the the need for reparations for the Jewish people victimized during the holocaust. It is just that logistics of reparations for African Americans is to adjust for wrongs that covered so long a period of time and so long ago, that the suggestion creates more problems than it addresses.

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                              wildernessposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                              Or because reparations for actions against blacks are for things that did not happen to them; only to blacks that lived 200 years ago.  There isn't a single black person alive today that was a slave on American soil.
                              
                              Yes, I get it when the claim is because "My g'g'g'grandfather was a slave and none of my ancestors since that time have done anything to improve their lives, so I'm suffering as a result".  I just don't see that as a reason to hand out money.
                              
                              And that doesn't even begin to address the problem of just who is "black" and who is not, when the family line originally came to the country or whether there were any slaves in the ancestry. 
                              
                              Saw a black woman on TV show about finding roots who found out her black ancestor was a slave owner in Louisiana (true, not fiction).  Should she get reparations because she's black, too?  Should Indians (whatever that means) be forced to cough up money as well - many tribes kept black slaves.  Should Oprah be given $100,000 because she's black and blacks have been unable to lead a good life because their great ancestor was a slave?  Are people that never had an ancestor within 1,000 miles of a slave guilty and should pay, too?

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                        GA Andersonposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                        Those are all good points Cred, but still, she/they are intelligent folks that I think would see the rationality of your reparations thoughts. So how else would you describe their support of it if it wasn't pandering?
                        
                        And if it is pandering, what does that say about their view of the folks they are pandering to?
                        
                        GA

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                           Credence2posted 4 years agoin reply to this

                           Great dialogue, GA
                           
                           You know what is behind this is that Bernie Sanders did poorly among Blacks in the 2016 campaign even though I thought he was far more authentic and in earnest than Hillary Clinton. Our older populations stayed with the "traditional" Democratic candidate. Ms. Clinton was popular because so many of us liked and trusted her husband in regards to considering issues important to us during his term. There was a sort of implied debt there, but I did not buy it.
                           
                           Both Warren and Sanders have to appeal more effectively to Blacks as a large part of the Democratic Party constituency and they both are aware of this. So, the candidates appeal to them in a way similar to offering the moon. I am not impressed, and I get mad at my own folks for being so easily manipulated.
                           
                           I believe Warren is the best candidate from my position, she made a mistake in the manner she chose to embrace the Black constituency.
                           
                           It can't be any different than Trump throwing red meat to the Pro-Life people offering policies and solutions that have no chance politically. But, in the meantime, it draws his constituency closer to him.

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                              wildernessposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                              I'm not so convinced that the Pro-Life people won't win in the end in banning any and all abortions (except for specific cases they think gives a good reason to murder a baby).
                              
                              I don't like it, but it's the same thing the anti-gun crowd is up to - chip away, year after year with nothing but emotional "arguments", at our freedoms until they get control over the people and they don't even realize what has happened.

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                                 Live to Learnposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                                 Although I'm pro choice, in defense of the anti abortion group I've read the country is very evenly divided on the issue. So, there's that. Just because I disagree, knowing half the country is against it makes it less of a problem for me for them to fight to stop it.

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                                 GA Andersonposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                                 You may be right Dan, but I hope not. I think the most important part of Roe v. Wade was the part that said it was none of the government's business.
                                 
                                 GA

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   Live to Learnposted 4 years ago

   Who is your real enemy that you don't want to have time to gloat, credence?

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      Credence2posted 4 years agoin reply to this

      The money changers, the finance industry held to account for abuses. The wealthy, the corporate class, their advocates and lobbyists out of Washington, curbing both their political and economic influence.
      
      The problem oligarchs and plutocrats and their advocates that benefit from the status quo, where the few have greater political power than the many.
      
      That includes those that cover for them while pretending to support the masses that elected them.
      
      That would have to include, by very definition, the conservatives and their perspectives and the GOP.

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         Live to Learnposted 4 years agoin reply to this

         Had to meander your way down to it but, ok. Conservatives are your enemy. I'm not your enemy and refuse to label another Americans as mine.

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            Credence2posted 4 years agoin reply to this

            No one is talking about blood and guts, L toL. If anyone supports the status quo as per what I was meandering through, we are POLITICAL adversaries, and my weapons are the free flow of ideas and the ballot box.

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               Live to Learnposted 4 years agoin reply to this

               In light of the heightening attacks on individuals simply because they can be identified as conservatives I'd think you'd tone down violent sounding rhetoric.

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                  Credence2posted 4 years agoin reply to this

                  That's only in your mind, Lto L, that is unfortunate, if I listen to you we should be all content with the Conservative maintained "status quo". With your attitudes toward the left, you don't have to say "enemy" for anyone to see that you regard them as such.
                  
                  Funny you did not mention anything about the right wing assaults and threats on progressive politicians on a considerably larger scale, involving cache of weapons and such.

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                     Live to Learnposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                     Well, if you are speaking of the coast guard incident I'm waiting for all of the details. Unlike many on the left, truth matters to me.
                     
                     You can certainly say I view people as an enemy of mine but, from my standpoint, I see that as a thinly veiled (and logically failed) attempt on your part to justify hateful rhetoric.

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                        Credence2posted 4 years agoin reply to this

                        What about the incidents last year, the murders in the synagogue and the nut in Florida mailing bombs to politicians.
                        
                        Honestly, L to L, we are at impasse, Right and left, you and I. I want changes in this society that most of you would resist. I am willing to gather all like minded people from all walks that are seeing things the same way. In this place or time. I don't insult anyone in these forums but as you so often mention, I am keen on "leftist" agenda and take no prisoners ( if that is hateful rhetoric for you, you haven't seen nothing yet)
                        
                        There is a difference between words verses actions, and being milquetoast or being 'impartial' and straddling the fence about a point of view. So from my universe, I don't see things the way you do and probably never will.

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                           Live to Learnposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                           You don't insult? I would think calling other Americans your enemy would qualify, but I suppose your idea of an insult is different also.
                           
                           We all want a better world credence. I'm just not fool enough to support a socialist agenda to lose my freedoms so you can think you've accomplished something.

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                              Credence2posted 4 years agoin reply to this

                              "We all want a better world credence. I'm just not fool enough to support a socialist agenda to lose my freedoms so you can think you've accomplished something."
                              
                              Opinionated aren't we?
                              
                              The status quo is unacceptable for me, so again an impasse. I explained in my opening piece the problems with the system and who is behind it. The danger that is possible with absolute power corrupting absolutely is understood by most by middle school.
                              
                              I am not worried about Socialism, if your beef is with my ideas, say so rather than dance around how I present my ideas, because in a sense there will be war in an manner of sort if the masses are squeezed to muc relative to the caprice of the "big shots". We are trying to save Capitalism, not destroy it,  but if they get too greedy........
                              
                              I will do anything within my lawful prerogatives to stop and hinder the Right and its agenda.  (So within the political sphere they are not my buds). But I am known to be able to share a cup of Java with any Rightwinger as long as we don't talk politics.

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                                 Live to Learnposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                                 There was a time we could conduct a civil exchange. I wonder when you got so militant?
                                 
                                 I have said on many occasions we need to tempor capitalism with safe guards which protect us from the unscrupulous corporation but, the left goes too far with hateful rhetoric, open violence in the streets against citizens and bullying on the internet. I'm not going to back an agenda that doesn't respect their fellow man.

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                                    Credence2posted 4 years agoin reply to this

                                    Hey, L to L we can still have our civil conversations. Nothing has changed except that you have defined yourself more closely with Right in criticism of the Left more. I have always been a Lefty, nothing new there.
                                    
                                    The problem is that the forces on the Right have been the most resistant to placing in the safeguards designed to temper Capitalism and its innate tendency to abuse and exploit, that effort Conservatives accuse as being Socialism.
                                    
                                    It is as Jake says Capitalism for the poor, Socialism for the wealthy. All that has to change and I make no bones about it. Otherwise, we're good.
                                    
                                    Funny, still I find the Right and its threats more dangerous, but that is just me.

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                                       Live to Learnposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                                       I wish I could agree with you but my suspicion is the same people are pulling the purse strings of all politicians in a position of power.

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                              JAKE Earthshineposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                              Republican Socialism gives ALL our wealth to the filthy rich, Democratic Socialism gives Health-CARE to ALL AMERICANS just as Senator Warren intends to do, so take your pick which strain of SOCIALISM is best for you:

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                                 Live to Learnposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                                 If you don't know the definition of socialism, that's ok.

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                        IslandBitesposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                        Well, if you are speaking of the coast guard incident I'm waiting for all of the details. Unlike many on the left, truth matters to me.
                        
                        He was charged, there are photos, emails, letters... The FBI, DA and Coast Guard confirm those charges.
                        
                        Seems to me there's a "wait, let's see..." when is someone from the right.
                        
                        
                        
                        No?

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                           Live to Learnposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                           Well, the Smollet thing, by his choice, was plastered on the news. I'd say I saw, at the least, 20 news reports on it before the Nigerians were identified. I've seen the video footage of them purchasing the items for the fake attack, I've heard the police news briefing and I've read several supposed leaks. I've seen one,possibly two, news reports on the coast guard guy.
                           
                           That said, I need more input. I'd think,if this were a slam dunk case we'd already be bombarded with info.
                           
                           But, the cases are different. Smollet actively sought to gain attention and this guy just, thankfully, got caught. So, that could be some of the reason behind the lack of coverage.
                           
                           You seem to lack the ability to think through, you are searching for fodder for  attack. I do wish I had so much free time on my hands but I doubt I'd use it reading your posts.

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   Valeantposted 4 years ago

   

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