The Great American Divide: Gratitude vs. Bitterness
There was once a time, not so long ago, when Americans disagreed over policy but shared a common love for country. That time has passed. Today, it feels as though we are not simply two parties or political factions, we are two different nations coexisting uneasily within the same borders. The divide isn’t just red versus blue. It’s deeper than that. It’s spiritual, cultural, and moral.
On one side, there is a group that still feels a deep-rooted gratitude for America. These citizens, many of them working-class, religious, and deeply patriotic, don’t see America as perfect, but they love her anyway. They are tired of being told their values are outdated, their faith is offensive, and their history is shameful. To them, the American flag still means something. They stand for the anthem, they believe in law and order, and they’re often the ones who serve in our military, build our infrastructure, and raise their children with discipline and respect. They don't ask for much, just the freedom to live and believe without ridicule.
On the other side, we’re witnessing something far different, a bitterness that seems rooted not in justice, but in a loss of control. This group spent decades embedding themselves in cultural and institutional power, media, academia, and bureaucracy, and they assumed the future belonged to them. When their grip on power was challenged, they didn't double down on persuasion; they unleashed fury. From labeling dissenters as extremists to rewriting the definitions of basic words like "woman" or "freedom," it has become clear that unity was never the goal, conformity was.
The rage we see isn’t just political; it’s personal. It’s the rage of elites who cannot fathom how the so-called “deplorables” had the audacity to push back. It’s the tantrum of a movement that, after years of calling itself “progress,” has been met with resistance by ordinary Americans who simply want to preserve the values they were raised with.
What’s most troubling is the hopelessness that seems to linger over it all. People speak of “saving America,” but many no longer believe it’s possible. Not because they don’t love her, but because they no longer recognize her. We’ve crossed into a realm where we no longer debate how to protect America. We argue over what America even is.
There is a dangerous permanence to this division. One side sees the country as something to be preserved; the other sees it as something to be dismantled and rebuilt in its image. That’s not compromise, that’s conquest.
We’ve reached a place where simple gratitude is now political. Saying you love your country, trust your faith, or honor your heritage marks you for suspicion or even scorn. And that’s not sustainable.
There’s always a sliver of hope, history is unpredictable, and people can surprise you. But for now, I don’t pretend to be optimistic. I see two paths diverging with greater speed, and fewer voices calling us to meet in the middle.
Maybe the divide isn’t just political anymore. Maybe it’s civilizational.
And the question we each must ask is: which side of this new America do we want to stand on?There are those who are unrightfully entitled. Those people contend that they should live off the fruits of others' labor. They believe that their dire educational & socioeconomic predicament are due to "outside" events, never their own unintelligent life choices. It totally astounds me how people who refuse to make responsible choices are perplexed that they are struggling. These people refuse to be accountable to improve their lives. It is beyond inexcusable.
There are people who are either too risk aversive, lazy, or any other unfavorable characteristics to strategize as how to improve their lives. These are the people who remain in a negative socioeconomic environment yet complain instead of being proactive regarding their situation.
I am a Black woman of both Black Southern & Caribbean lineage. I will tell a story of two families. My maternal extended family who are Black Sourtherners are still impoverished for the most part & it has been THREE going on the FOURTH generation. Except for a minute percentage of those who have attained middle class &/or better socioeconomic status, most elect to be impoverished despite opportunities. No they didn't want to improve themselves. Instead they believe that affluent relatives should carry them. Three generations of affluent relatives have supported this family & they have become unrightfully entitled. They believe that others are OBLIGATED to help them. I have disowned them.
By contrast, my paternal family. My father's family was poorer than my mother's family. They were Caribbean. However, my father's family lifted themselves by their bootstraps. My father's generation has obtained good civil service jobs & their descendants became wealthy professionals & entrepreneurs as opposed to my mother's family who are still mired in poverty by their own choosing. Black Caribbeans are known to be hard workers & aggressive. Studies even authenticate that Black Caribbeans outpace Black Americans in terms of socioeconomic attainment. Black Americans have the victimology mindset while Black Caribbeans don't.
Look at Michelle Obama, she constantly complains although she is highly successful. Come on now. I have a maternal cousin with an advanced degree who blames the man for oppressing although she is highly upper middle class. Black Americans have the struggle mentality. Black Caribbeans have a zest to succeed. There is a different psychology between Black Americans & Black Caribbeans. Now add Black Africans to the equation. They have immense get up & go. They came to America & immediately are creative in terms of work & business. Why do Black Americans have the complaining, victim mentality? It really sickens me.
Black Americans have immense educational & job opportunities which they elect not to pursue. Instead, they view the government as their parent who should assist & even take care of them. To reiterate, I am a Black American on my maternal side & Black Caribbean on my paternal side. This Black victimology is becoming tired.Thank you for sharing such a powerful perspective. I completely agree, there’s a growing culture of entitlement where too many people expect to live off the hard work of others while refusing to take accountability for their own choices. It's frustrating to see people continuously blame external forces for their struggles while ignoring the opportunities right in front of them.
Your story really highlights how mindset makes all the difference. When people choose to rise, work hard, and take ownership of their lives, success is possible, regardless of where they start. I see many people who come from difficult backgrounds yet push themselves, find creative ways to succeed, and build a better future.
On the flip side, I also see others who stay stuck in cycles of dependency and complaint, even when they have every tool available to change course. The victim mentality you described really has become exhausting. It’s not empowering, it’s limiting.
We need more focus on self-respect, effort, and the willingness to grow. Your message is a reminder of what’s possible when people stop making excuses and start making moves.Definitely. My mother's branch of the family are abysmal parasites. It is the THIRD, even FOURTH generation & no one supports themselves. Relatives have supported the family since the 1920s & it is now 2020s & my cousin who has an advanced degree now pays for the property they live on. I REFUSE TO SUPPORT FREELOADERS-my assessment is let the state take the property & give to those who appreciate it. I have disowned the family.
“There was once a time, not so long ago, when Americans disagreed over policy but shared a common love for country. That time has passed. Today, it feels as though we are not simply two parties or political factions, we are two different nations coexisting uneasily within the same borders. The divide isn’t just red versus blue. It’s deeper than that. It’s spiritual, cultural, and moral.”
Truer words have never been spoken. Yes, the time has passed for the common love of country. I have been explicit in my view of pessimism that would result in Americas decline both on the domestic and international arenas.
By expunging America’s faults and shortcomings and they are many as pursued by this administration through intimidation of educational institutions and government sanctioned whitewashing of the true nature of American history, it is the beginning of the reality that we are not going to get along. As our story reflects the “canary in the coal mine” regarding American adherence to the values that it always promotes, it tells me that what progress there has been have been artificial and that, fundamentally, nothing has really changed. If America insist on not living up to those high minded ideals or at least continue working toward them, then my affinity for country has to go the same direction.
The current regime has challenged courts, rule of law and the democrat principles of separations of powers, that is unprecedented and is the groundwork for tyranny, regardless of all the contrary and flowery oratory out there excusing it. Our group relies on these guardrails because without them, those folks would have lynched us all, long ago. (I use lynch figuratively).
I thought that you would be ecstatic as Trump signed off on “the bill”.
The permanence of this division is quite real, as I find myself having less and less in common with Trump type conservatives, and preparing for the unraveling of this country and the worse. There can be no middle ground between Trump autocracy and progressive thoughts and values.
The wrong America is fighting to bring back all the ugly things that we have spent generation trying to rid ourselves of, so there are fewer happy campers.Cred, While it’s true that patriotism seems less widespread today, I believe the love of country can be reignited. Pessimism about America’s future overlooks the resilience and innovation that have historically driven its recovery and global leadership. The challenge is to foster unity and renewed commitment, not to accept decline as inevitable.
I disagree with the notion that efforts to confront America’s faults amount to intimidation or whitewashing. Acknowledging our history honestly is not about tearing the country down, it’s about learning from past mistakes to build a stronger, more inclusive future. Progress isn’t artificial; it’s the product of real struggle and sacrifice by countless Americans pushing for justice and equality. True patriotism means holding America accountable to its highest ideals, not abandoning them when the work gets hard. Rejecting the country because it hasn’t been perfect ignores the ongoing fight to make it better for everyone.
Let’s apply some common sense here: every administration pushes legal and political boundaries—it’s part of governing in a divided country. But claiming we're on the brink of tyranny every time the courts or Congress get challenged ignores how our system actually works. The judiciary has remained active, checks and balances are functioning, and opposition voices are not only heard, they dominate media and cultural institutions. If this were true tyranny, you wouldn’t be freely making that statement. Let’s keep criticisms rooted in facts, not fear-driven exaggeration.
I wouldn't say I'm "ecstatic" just because Trump signed off on the bill. Supporting a bill doesn’t mean blind celebration; it means I saw enough value in it to think it was worth backing it. No, I wouldn’t say I’m ecstatic, but I do believe the bill was good, and even unique, in the sense that, in my view, it contains something a bit positive for many Americans. I just posted an OP on the subject. I think once the dust settles, a lot of people will be surprised to realize they actually gained something from Trump’s bill. Much of the good in it has been overlooked, but when the impact hits closer to home, I think it’ll get the recognition it deserves, maybe even from those who didn’t expect it.
Sadly, I understand what you're saying, even if we see things differently. The division feels deeper than ever, and it's disheartening. I’ve felt it too—like there’s less room for real conversation, and more people preparing for conflict instead of common ground. I wish it weren’t this way. Whether someone supports Trump or leans progressive, it shouldn't mean we have to give up on talking, listening. But we have.“Cred, While it’s true that patriotism seems less widespread today, I believe the love of country can be reignited. Pessimism about America’s future overlooks the resilience and innovation that have historically driven its recovery and global leadership. The challenge is to foster unity and renewed commitment, not to accept decline as inevitable.”
———-
I confess, I held out hope for continued progress in the right direction which kept me on board, but that has all gone away with Trump and Trump ideology at the forefront. My love of country is not unconditional, it is based on continued improvement and not backsliding. “My country, right or wrong” does not work with me. Without the principles that we like to claim to ourselves that make the US exceptional, then it is just another geographic area, that may prove a less desirable place to reside than other locales.
Ask Trump why he removes honorable mention for Colin Powell yet extols Robert E. Lee? Ask Trump why he threatens the sovereignty of both Panama and Greenland, the American that I loved was not a predator nation. Progress means atoning for expropriated lands and unrequited labor, at least not making it more difficult for its victims. Ask Trump why he sends illegal migrants without due process to gulags in countries that the State Department itself warns American citizens to stay away from? We have a Supreme Court as an accessory and facilitator to Trump’s unorthodox policies and approach to things. We have a cowardly congress that is so terrified of Trump that they wont assert the prerogatives the Constitution gives to the legislative branch of government. Why would Trump as President confess his hatred for all Democrats, what kind of compromise is that? So, no, this is not my America any longer. In fear of the coming apocalypse that I predict, we are renewing our passports to prepare to leave and watch the society implode from a safe distance outside.
Fear driven could also mean falling back on jingoism which is just as emotional and non-rationally based.
====
“Let’s apply some common sense here: every administration pushes legal and political boundaries—it’s part of governing in a divided country. But claiming we're on the brink of tyranny every time the courts or Congress get challenged ignores how our system actually works. The judiciary has remained active, checks and balances are functioning, and opposition voices are not only heard, they dominate media and cultural institutions. If this were true tyranny, you wouldn’t be freely making that statement. Let’s keep criticisms rooted in facts, not fear-driven exaggeration.”
It is not a true tyranny, YET, but the Trump regime is working on muzzling the press and undermining the foundations of higher education. Trump actions have been unorthodox and have dangerously tilted the rules whether you acknowledge that or not. I don’t play with those that have no respect for the rules and the referee.
You are right to sense the foreboding because it is here and is quite real. This is where we are right now, and it is unfortunate.Our differing poles are so far apart, it is unlikely that they could ever intersect.I want to start by saying I truly respect your perspective and where it comes from. As a Black man, your experience and outlook are deeply shaped by a history that I can never fully understand, but I can listen to and try to appreciate. I hear your frustration, your disappointment, and your fear of regression, those are not things I want to dismiss lightly or ignore.
That said, I hope it’s okay for me to share some thoughts in return, not to invalidate yours, but to offer another way of seeing some of what you’ve laid out.
I agree that love of country shouldn’t be blind or unconditional. It should be based on principles and accountability. But I think we may differ on what progress looks like and who is responsible for the backsliding. Many of us who support Trump don’t do so out of jingoism or blind nationalism; we do so because we see something broken in the system, and we believe he is confronting issues that others have ignored for decades. That doesn’t mean we co-sign everything he says or does, but we do see him as a kind of disruptive check on a political class that, in our view, has grown arrogant, insulated, and increasingly out of touch with everyday Americans of all races.
Regarding Robert E. Lee vs. Colin Powell, I get how that stings. But I think we’d need to look closely at the actual statements, context, and intentions. Sometimes Trump praises someone’s tactical abilities or historical significance, not their morality or legacy. That’s not the same as endorsing their entire worldview. I do agree that Powell deserved recognition for his service.
As for the claims about "gulags" and Panama or Greenland, I’ve looked into those stories, and I don’t believe they reflect policy as it’s being portrayed. I understand how optics and rhetoric matter, but I also think some narratives take the worst possible interpretation and run with it, even when the policy details don’t fully support the outrage.
You mentioned fearing the rise of tyranny, and I understand that concern. But from my perspective, we’re not seeing tyranny, we’re seeing division and disruption, yes, but not suppression. The courts are still ruling independently, Congress still holds the power to check the executive branch, and the media remains overwhelmingly critical of Trump without censorship. People are free to protest, speak out, and organize in opposition. Those are signs that, while we may be in a tense political moment, the system of checks and balances is still functioning.
I genuinely hope you don’t feel the need to leave this country. I still believe it’s worth fighting for from within. You’re right that our poles may be far apart, but I don't believe they have to stay that way forever. If we can keep talking, even when it’s hard, that’s where real understanding starts.
It seems you may want to keep in mind, Trump can not run again --- so on we will all go down the path.“I want to start by saying I truly respect your perspective and where it comes from. As a Black man, your experience and outlook are deeply shaped by a history that I can never fully understand, but I can listen to and try to appreciate. I hear your frustration, your disappointment, and your fear of regression, those are not things I want to dismiss lightly or ignore.”
Exactly, I just wished more conservatives would take the time to acknowledge this fact.
You created the thread and as an open forum, I listen to your points of view, while I certainly cannot relate to many of them.
1. The point you made is that “progress” is measured by a differing standard for minorities verses particularly white men.
2. We are going to see whites fear of elites and intractable problems, supporting Trump, with a differing definition of what that is. Blacks in particular still give well over 80 percent of their votes to Democrats which is in recognition of that reality. There is a reason for that. So kumbaya does not include everyone.
3, It is not just Colin Powell verses Robert E. Lee, it has been all contributions from minorities and to a certain extent women as well. It has a definitive trend toward deliberate exclusion of their contributions, is that what they mean by DEI? How would I be comfortable living in a society that deliberately denies my heritage and contribution, while giving leaders of the Confederacy, purveyors of treason and insurrection, top billing? Whether Lee’s worldview is being endorsed or not, this policy, in practice, still sends a chilling message. How is that Trump is allowed to say what contributions are significant, when he has been shown to be woefully ignorant of American History? What other conclusion can reasonable and honest people come to regarding this policy?
4. As for Panama and Greenland, I take Trumps threats regarding their sovereignty verbatim. This fear is not manufactured as both the Governments of Panama and Greenland expressed dismay from what Trump says. I go with what he says instead of trying to extract some other meaning that ameliorates the gravity his words, I don’t go for that. So the question remains, “what did he say”. I hold the President responsible for what he says.
The division and disruption is the preamble for what is next, it operates in stages. With the Trump pattern, the suppression that you don’t see now, you will see as the inevitable next step in how Trump will control the narrative. The systems of checks and balances has been challenged in an unprecedented way, where there are many wondering if they simply will be eliminated as Trump grasps for ever more power and autonomy in his office.
We can keep the dialogue going, but I am at wits end. I have run out of patience and time, seeing the changes and where they are leading.
Are we so sure that Trump cannot run again or will the court find someway to allow him to circumvent the 22nd Amendment as well?I understand your thoughts and respect your passion on this issue, it’s an important one. But let’s take a moment to break this down with some fairness, common sense, and honest debate.
You’re saying that Black voters overwhelmingly supporting Democrats isn’t random or tribal—it’s a reflection of a long-standing reality where the system has often worked against them. That’s a critical truth. For many Black Americans, the Democratic Party, flawed as it may be, has at least acknowledged racial injustice and attempted reforms, whereas the Republican Party has often been seen as denying those realities or minimizing them. That 80% support is not just a preference; it’s a response to history, policy, and the felt reality of exclusion. And I fully respect that.
You're right to point out that minority and women’s contributions to American history have often been overlooked, and that's a real problem that deserves attention. It’s something both the public and institutions should work to correct. But I think we should be cautious not to frame this as a zero-sum game where highlighting one figure automatically erases another. The tension between preserving historical memory and reassessing it is not always rooted in malice or deliberate exclusion; sometimes it's about differing views on how to contextualize complex parts of our past.
Regarding Robert E. Lee, the controversy around his commemoration isn't just about endorsing his worldview. For many, it's about the total picture: Lee was a brilliant military strategist, but also a man who led a war effort in defense of slavery and against the Union. That’s uncomfortable, but it’s history. Some argue that acknowledging his historical role doesn’t mean celebrating everything he stood for. Others understandably feel that any elevation of Confederate leaders sends a divisive, hurtful message, especially to those whose ancestors were oppressed by the system the Confederacy fought to uphold. That’s a valid feeling, too.
But when you say Trump decides what’s significant in history, well, to be fair, no one man "decides" that, not even a president. Public policy, education, and commemorations reflect the broader push and pull of democratic debate, not just one person’s preferences. Trump, like many presidents before him, has expressed opinions that not everyone agrees with, sometimes boldly, sometimes ignorantly. But that’s not the same as rewriting history. He has a platform, yes, but so does everyone else in this conversation.
The idea that this is definitively about exclusion may be overstating it. Not everyone who wants to preserve certain monuments or historical references is trying to erase minority contributions. Some just don’t want to forget difficult parts of history, whether that’s the Civil War, the Founders’ contradictions, or anything else. The real question is: can we tell the full story? Can we include Frederick Douglass and Harriet Tubman and talk about Robert E. Lee, not to glorify him, but to understand him in a historical context?
Reasonable and honest people may disagree, and that’s okay. The goal shouldn’t be to silence one side or assume bad faith, it should be to add truth, context, and complexity wherever we can. That’s how we honor all contributions.
As for Panama and Greenland, I take Trumps threats regarding their sovereignty verbatim. This fear is not manufactured as both the Governments of Panama and Greenland expressed dismay from what Trump says. I go with what he says instead of trying to extract some other meaning that ameliorates the gravity his words, I don’t go for that. So the question remains, “what did he say”. I hold the President responsible for what he says.
"Are we so sure that Trump cannot run again or will the court find someway to allow him to circumvent the 22nd Amendment as well?" Cred
OMG I hope not! LOL I think we need to realize, Trump, as all presidents in the past, will head off into the sunset."You’re saying that Black voters overwhelmingly supporting Democrats isn’t random or tribal—it’s a reflection of a long-standing reality where the system has often worked against them. That’s a critical truth. For many Black Americans, the Democratic Party, flawed as it may be, has at least acknowledged racial injustice and attempted reforms, whereas the Republican Party has often been seen as denying those realities or minimizing them. That 80% support is not just a preference; it’s a response to history, policy, and the felt reality of exclusion. And I fully respect that."
I am pleased that you are able to understand what I have being trying to explain for some time. You could not have said it better.
As for women and minority contributions, they were there until the Trump administration deliberately removed them, why? It is not a coincidence that these policies began execution once Trump assumed the Presidency. How can I be asked not to believe that? Every serpent has a head.
I am not talking about a worldview, I am talking about the simple comparison of a African American General of distinction in the Armed Service and later as part of GW Bush's cabinet, verses a man who in treason took arms against the United States, as one example. Yes, Confederates and the Confederacy are part of American history, but why are their actors given a prominent place over loyal patriotic Americans of Color? The confederate commemoration belongs in the basement of a historical museum display, not commemorated as "the example". A contribution of treason should not merit a prominent place. That is pretty basic, beyond distractions, misleading and subtle nuances to attempt an explanation.
From the standpoint of patriotism and pride of country, Frederick Douglas and Harriet Tubman were heroes that were supporting the American ideals and principles, what was Robert E. Lee? So, Powell and Lee were both great generals, but would I extol Erwin Rommel in place of Colin Powell? At least Rommel was true to the nation he fought for.... The point being that Trump has been "silencing" contributions inconsistent with his DEI agenda. What other explanation is there?
Complexity, nuance is not a substitute for truth as made evident by Trumps own word and policies that he directs.
I don't put anything past Trump and the sheer arrogance of power. This topic (a third term) has been discussed by his toadies, who is going believe that he has'nt contemplated it."I am pleased that you are able to understand what I have being trying to explain for some time. You could not have said it better."
Like both you and Sharlee I agree 100% with this. In the distant past it was opposite, but in our lifetime it has been primarily the Democrat party that has worked for black equality.
At the same time, it is also the Democrat party that has worked toward providing welfare to the poor. How much of that black propensity for voting Democrat is to pad their own pockets with what others worked for? An uncomfortable question, to be sure, but one that needs asked and one that should be acknowledged.Yes, I acknowledge the Archie Bunker displayed in your comment which basically says to me that bias, stereotypes and bigotry has not been removed as part of American life. Much like cleaning the floor but sweeping the dust under the carpet, is the floor really clean? This is the Trump universe and you are proof positive that we are never going to find common ground and I see conflict coming as a result.
Did you read what was written outside of your own hackneyed ideas and concepts that you can never support nor ever can hold water?
How about truly getting educated about what you speak of instead of just speaking from the lip?
for example
Who receives these benefits?
When Americans think about welfare beneficiaries, they usually picture Black people.
It’s true that Black Americans are overrepresented among those who receive government assistance. For example, Black people make up just 14% of the U.S. population but 30% of those enrolled in the Temporary Assistance for Needy Families program.
That being said, the majority of recipients of government aid are white.
For decades, however, TV shows, movies and the news media have portrayed Black people as impoverished recipients of government benefits. This has caused many Americans to incorrectly presume that these programs support mostly Black people.
Because so many Americans have traditionally held negative views toward Black people, the mental association between Black people and poverty has undermined support for government programs – and has perhaps even prevented the United States from developing the kind of robust social safety net that is found in many other affluent countries.
———
With the vast majority of benefits still going to whites, I think that whites have no leg to stand on associating welfare with black people. So, Einstein, almost 85 percent of blacks vote for democrats while only 30 percent of the black population is on public assistance. What explains the support of the other 55 percent, including myself? I am dying to hear your learned hypothesis."It’s true that Black Americans are overrepresented among those who receive government assistance."
Thank you for recognizing that obvious fact. Now if you will just put a little thought into what it means you will find that what I said makes perfect sense...once you have removed the emotional response to that obvious fact. Set your bias aside, turn off the emotional outrage that something so vile as poor people getting welfare could be true and turn ON the reasoning center.
"So, Einstein, almost 85 percent of blacks vote for democrats while only 30 percent of the black population is on public assistance."
Oh please! Over half of our citizenry, whether white, black, red, yellow or purple with pink polka dots lives their life getting public charity. Public assistance, if you prefer the term. Your figure of only 30% of the black demographic is a ridiculous and pathetic attempt to wriggle out of the truth.+10000000. Wilderness, you are correct of course. Most of the people on public assistance CAN work but they choose not do so. Instead of doing constructive things with their lives, they elect to do destructive things i.e. having children for the purpose of gaining even more welfare benefits. Welfare is a game & it is a generational game. They would rather game welfare than to work for a living.
I have a suggestion. Welfare should be drastically reduced. People are needed to pick fruits & do farm labor. Such people can work the farms. They can also work on repairing roads. Welfare recipients can be used to work farms & do other kinds of repair work. Let's get smart here. There is SO MUCH work for welfare recipients to do instead of using illegal migrants. Put those on welfare on mandatory work.I can see how in the Trump universe this could work.
You simply require able bodied workers to attend to the harvest fields, their compensation would be their benefits with the employer required to make up the difference between their benefits and at a minimum, the minimum wage. I guess trumpers can have their dream of ridding themselves of migrants and the exploitative harvesting industries can continue to pay reduced wages. But, I have read that only about 8 percent of Medicaid recipients are either not working, not in school or are not burdened with children. It is a win-win for the Right, let’s see how it works.". But, I have read that only about 8 percent of Medicaid recipients are either not working, not in school or are not burdened with children. It is a win-win for the Right, let’s see how it works." Cred
Great point. This should genuinely help reduce the number of people at risk of losing Medicaid. I’ve said it over and over, and no one, I mean no one, ever addresses the fact that the exemptions built into this law protect anyone who truly needs to stay on Medicaid.
Let’s be clear: this bill is now law. These protections are on the books. Only able-bodied individuals will be asked to work, take a class, or volunteer in some way to keep their Medicaid coverage. Does that honestly sound so outrageous?
No one will be cut off if they follow the rules or fall under one of the many exemptions. And yes, those exemptions are broad, people are well protected. I won’t post them again, because every time I have, it’s been met with crickets.
Honestly, it’s disappointing to see how little people seem to understand about what’s actually in this Medicaid reform. This isn’t some cruel policy—it’s common sense.
To be honest, I don’t think we’re going to see much in the way of savings from Trump’s measure. I think it’ll mostly fizzle out. It feels more like a political move aimed at energizing the base than a major cost-cutting initiative.
I won’t pretend to know how many people will actually lose Medicaid because of the bill, but if I had to go out on a limb, I’d say not many. The exemptions are there, and most people who qualify now will likely stay covered.
Thank you. There is work to do & those who are on the government dole can be put to work on the farms to help farmers. They can also repair roads, clean the parks, & do other work. There are SO MANY THINGS they can do. Remember sloth is a deadly sin. Those on welfare are guilty of sloth.
That is NY to a T... It is why it is the top state other than CA for people to move to, migrant or American, who want to get those freebies.
Seen just how abused it is. And state officials encourage the grift... NY is a lost state... Not the place you want to live if you work for a living.
So, does that overrepresentation in the use of welfare for 14 percent of the national population make black folks the national poster children for receipt of welfare benefits? Where did that come from? What about all the white people on welfare, is that reality being carefully hidden behind the lie of American rugged individualism to render white people as blameless?
Your specious over 50 percent on public assistance does not apply specifically to welfare.
You are the perfect case in point for my ire toward the Trump regime and its supporters. It does not make sense to make bigoted comments about black voters supporting democrats based on their desire to remain on the dole. It is a dumb stereotype typical of Trump supporters. You ignore all the other points, consistently cherry pick, never providing evidence for anything that you ever say. That’s means zero on my credibility meter.
You know better than that... Manifest Destiny. The manufactured reason for the war of 1812.
This country was made on the very type of mindset Trump has alluded to ... IE we will take Greenland if it's in our best interests, even if we have to dump the 50k souls living there into the ocean to do so.
Sure, unlike Trump's bold claims that he will use force if necessary... We have typically lied to the population as to why we start these wars... Even today they are based on selling the people the lie....
WMD and Iraq for instance. Or the shit storm we created in Ukraine... Your problem is you believe all the propaganda hook line and sinker.
Or else you would never make such a statement (it's entirety not just the quoted above).
The benefit has always been for the CITIZENS of America... At the expense of others.
We enjoy the riches and freedoms we have thanks to being American... For as long as we can keep them. With today's technology, who knows how much longer that lasts.Yes, I know better, I usually do.
What are you talking about? The term Manifest Destiny did not come into vogue until the middle of the 19th century, the War of 1812 had nothing to do with that.
I wont have anything to do with a predator nation, regardless of the excuses used by every tyrant to expropriate land and violate sovereignty of independent nations and territories. I like to see Trump get away with this in the face of global observation and opinion? Trump is very definition and synonym of the “lie.
And what “propaganda” do you believe, sight unseen?
Trump and his regime will make certain that those riches and freedom will promptly disappear
I see conflict coming and its aftermath will leave America unrecognizable, I will take that as a consolation prize even if the changes has an adverse affect upon me and mine.This is a prime example of how lost you are in the propaganda you have been fed.
You are fixated on Trump.
Did Trump kill Kennedy?
Who are the people who could execute the President and then cover it up?
Who are the people that today can listen into any cell phone or review everything you have done on your computer remotely, without you even knowing about it?
Who killed Malcolm X... MLK.... ?
Trump may reverse social things like trans in the military... Or defund gay pride parades in Azbekistan... But has he ended the war against Russia? Has he cut ties to China completely?
Has he stopped the massive out of control borrowing and spending?
Trump might make some positive changes for American citizens... But they will only last as long as he does... Then it will be another Biden like stooge that will be running the show again doing what the rich and powerful tell them to do.Yes, I am fixated on Trump because Trump and his unorthodox administration bordering on dangerous authoritarian and tyranny IS the problem.
Rightwingers in the style and belief system of Trump killed JFK, it is how they have always dealed with its opponents.
Who doesn’t know that there has always been issues about our privacy? I don’t see anything that Trump’s presence in the Oval Office does to change that reality.
Has he, while increasing the National Deficit out of sight over the next decade, who can tell me that Trump and his lemmings are responsible stewards of public money?
As I said, Ken, I have an inherent distrust of Trump that he earned long before he descended from that accursed escalator. Getting rid of him is my top priority….You miss my point ...
What has Trump really changed?
When Trump is gone they will put another stooge in their and the song will remain the same... As it was a year ago... No need to worry Cred, the pendulum will swing again.If the pendulum swings to far to the Right it may well fall from its rocker. Then there will be hell to pay……
You still are under the belief that real change is occuring with our government.
It is not. It is a show put on and you participate.
The only ones who are even moderately free are the people with enough economic means that they do not have to work for someone else and they are not reliant on the government for support.
Real freedom is recognizing the lies you are fed and not wasting your time or energy participating in the foolishness known as American politics or the belief that there really is a difference in the two parties.
Not at the Fed/DC... State and local sure... but we are heading to a new, global reality. Republicans and Democrats all part of the same bird flying us there.
I thank you for helping me come to this realization, your continued progress into extremism was part of what helped bring clarity.
There was once a time when you weren't so deep down in that hole... and now you almost mirror Esoteric.So, it is a put on?
I don’t see Trump as the solution to any problem, but instead he remains a man that merely exacerbates the problems we already have. I will take the give and take of politics over authorianism and tyranny any time.
If you support Trump, then the extremism is from your side, Ken.
Yes, I was always that deep in the hole, and I consider mirroring Esoteric as a compliment. We are ideologically kindred. A man with a great deal of education with a broad base of experience and unlike so many right wing posters, presents evidence of tireless research to back his positions on the issues of the day. I wish that I were that good.Esoteric is blind to anything that does not support or reaffirm his beliefs...
Funny, I see a lot of that from ‘your side” as well. So, we are all guilty of some bias in favor of the “Side” that you support.
I don't really care what you think "my side" is or does.
I am talking about you ...the individual... More closed minded than ever. Which is sad. Because many years ago I was more close minded and you were someone that made me alter my perspectives.
Eso never had that ability because he outright rejects anything not fitting his narrative and never gives thought to others perspectives and experiences unless they align.It is not that I have not given thought to your ideas or perspectives, I simply don’t agree with them.
Because you don’t acknowledge our differing values and experiences does that not make you just as hidebound as you accuse either ESO or me of being?
You are the same person that you were when you participated in the forum from the beginning. Your thoughts do not have to align with mine, mine are different and I have indicated to all who would listen as to why that is.I DO acknowledge our differing values...
I HAVE acknowledged that you personally experienced... and I loathe to use this fraise, but it is accurate... Social Injustice.
A systemic, social, cultural bias against you because of your race.
And now... and for many decades... we do NOT have systemic, social, cultural bias against you because of your race.
The laws, protections, benefits of society today are bent towards helping you because of your race.
That you guard against a return to what was... I do understand.
That you are willing to let 'your side' destroy the Nation that has finally come to the place where all people are treated relatively equally... is where we part.
You stood by and supported all the idiocy the Biden Administration brought forth... from flying hundreds of thousands of undocumented migrants into the country and letting millions more walk in... to men in women's sports... to children being mutilated because they identify as another sex...
Not to mention the fact that Biden was a walking talking vegetable and clearly in no condition to actually lead the country... and Harris was just as bad, only she didn't have the excuse of dementia to blame it on.
That's why Trump is back in there... because 'your side' is even worse, more incompetent and more un-American in its goals than ever before.
Shar,
I don't see someone like myself joining with the far left on any issue any time soon. There are a minority of democrats who I could support if there were no other options. The modern democrat party is too far to the left, too violent, and too anti-American.
Here is a recent poll that found democrats by large are not proud to be Americans.
"Now, 58% of U.S. adults say that, in a downward shift that’s been driven almost entirely by Democrats and independents. The vast majority of Republicans continue to say they’re proud to be American."
democrats are only proud of the United States when their party is in power and they call the shots. If they don't get what they want, they're ashamed of America.
I and every Republican I know were quite proud of the United States even under Joe Biden. I was ashamed of president biden, but I was still proud of my country.
I'm sure we can agree that pride in America goes beyond who wins elections. It is the history, culture, success and more that cause me to be proud to be an American. I have relatives who came here from another country to become citizens. Trust me, they are very proud to be American citizens.
The democrat party is a total disaster right now. It is run by far left activists who only want to destroy America and what it stands for. Today's democrat party is turning into a communist/socialist party.
Don't believe me? See who they elected to represent them in the New York City mayoral race.
Zohran Mamdani is the antithesis of the modern democrat party is today. He is very open about his socialism goals.
I doubt very seriously that democrats realize their support of him will significantly hurt them in any national election. He is them and they are him.
What the democrat party has done to itself is just a shame.The modern Democrat Party has moved so far to the left that it’s unrecognizable compared to just a couple of decades ago. It's not just about different policy preferences anymore, it's about a fundamentally different vision for America. When the dominant voices in that party openly push for socialism, downplay American exceptionalism, and express shame in the very country that gave them the freedom to speak and rise, it tells you a lot about where their values lie.
You made a key point: pride in country should never hinge on who’s in power. I may have deep disagreements with the leadership under Joe Biden, but that doesn't change my pride in the American people, our Constitution, our military, our entrepreneurial spirit, and the freedoms we enjoy. That kind of enduring pride is what defines true patriotism.
The poll you cited is deeply revealing. When a majority of Democrats can’t say they’re proud to be American, unless their side is in control, it reflects a dangerous trend: conditional patriotism. That kind of mindset corrodes national unity. Republicans, by contrast, have consistently shown they can separate their feelings about government leadership from their love of country.
As for the rise of figures like Zohran Mamdani, you’re absolutely right. When someone who openly embraces socialism becomes a symbol of the party’s future in a major city like New York, it’s not just a local issue, it becomes a national liability. Mamdani doesn't represent some fringe group anymore; he represents the Democrats' slide into embracing policies that reject capitalism, individualism, and even basic constitutional principles. Their support of him, and others like him, shows just how out of step they are with middle America.
The modern Democrat Party has, in many ways, become a movement of grievance and destruction, tearing down traditions, demonizing law enforcement, promoting division, and in some cases, as you said, even excusing or encouraging violence when it suits their agenda.
I ultimately put my faith in the American people. Yes, there is a segment that, in my view, has strayed from common sense, until their own ideologies start to catch up with them and cause real discomfortIs anti-American.
Or, at the very least, all those Left of Center within that Party are.
Which is why many people are left with no alternative but to vote Republican... it truly is the lesser of two evils these days.This is so on target. I voted Republican because the party is more pragmatic than the Democratic Party which is helter skelter. The Democratic Party is the party of radicals who have arrested development.
The Democratic Party has ceased to make sense. They concentrate on inane & superfluous social programs. Because of the Democratic Party, the welfare & other social programs has increased taxing the middle class. Also crime has become uncontrollable because of the liberal policies of the Democratic Party. I have voted Republican since 2016.
Totally agree with you. It really feels like the Democrats have lost sight of what actually matters to regular folks, things like steady jobs, safety, and personal responsibility. Instead, they keep pushing all these social programs that sound good in theory but often end up just bloated and costing the middle class more in taxes.
And yeah, the crime problem in a lot of cities is real. Cutting police budgets and going easy on crime hasn’t made things better; it’s made neighborhoods less safe. It’s frustrating when politicians ignore that while everyday people are the ones dealing with the mess.
A lot of folks, like you, switched over to the Republicans because they seem to be the only ones talking sense, standing up for law and order, growing the economy, and backing a government that helps people help themselves. I think more and more people are seeing this, and that trend isn’t going away anytime soon.
Rich - coming from a MAGA.
Set the house on fire then despair that it is burning.
I believe that Americans have had enough. America has regressed from a tough, aggressive individualistic nation with a strong work ethic to one that preaches the nanny state ethos. There are those who believe that the world OWES them. They want to live comfortably but on other's dime. I am a Liberal; however, I staunchly believe that if one doesn't want to help himself/herself, h/she should starve. If one starves enough, h/she will find work-any type of work. As I said, giving people handouts make them entitled & independent. Tough love should be applied to social programs. Most social programs at present are totally superfluous. There are a few things that I disagree w/Trump on but mostly his policies are on point.
"When their grip on power was challenged, they didn't double down on persuasion; they unleashed fury. "
January 6, 2021
Related Discussions
- 84
Why are Men Leaving the Democrat Party?
by Readmikenow 4 hours ago
Democrats set out to study young menA widely mocked project to get under the hood about why Democrats are losing young men has sobering results.The Democrats trying to understand young American men know people are roasting their plan.All that mocking just proves their point, they said: Democrats...
- 24
Why are democrats historically unpopular? They did it to themselves.
by Readmikenow 3 months ago
In Gallup’s most recent poll, only 38 percent of Americans voiced a favorable view of the Democrats, the party’s worst showing in at least three decades. Quinnipiac University, meanwhile, pegs approval of congressional Democrats at just 21 percent, an all-time low. And some of this disdain is...
- 76
What Happened To The Democratic Party We Once Knew
by Sharlee 8 months ago
What happened to the Democratic Party we once knew? It seems that over the years, the party has shifted, and not in a way that resonates with the people who once felt truly represented by it. In the past, the Democratic Party prided itself on standing up for working-class Americans, fighting for...
- 42
Divided America: The Battle for Core Values and Who Will Prevail
by Sharlee 8 months ago
Americans have become deeply divided over a combination of political, cultural, and social factors that have been escalating for decades. The truth is, political polarization has intensified significantly over the last 40 years. The two major parties have moved further apart ideologically, with...
- 156
The AIM of the DEMOCRATIC Party in America
by Grace Marguerite Williams 16 months ago
In recent decades, the Democratic Party has become increasingly leftist. Examples of these are the decriminalization of marijuana, lax rules regarding criminals-there are no jail time for petty crimes, & the proliferation of illegal immigrants to the United States among other...
- 129
The Hill. Opinion: The 'Scared Majority'.
by Tim Mitchell 9 months ago
The ‘scared majority’ could deliver a landslide victory for Trump by Douglas MacKinnon, opinion contributor published at The...