Was the Most Recent Mueller Hearing a Democrat Disaster?

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  1. Readmikenow profile image95
    Readmikenowposted 6 months ago

    Anti-Trump Harvard Law prof Laurence Tribe calls Mueller hearing ‘disaster’ that helped the president

    Harvard Law School professor Laurence Tribe, a fierce critic of President Trump, said Wednesday that former Special Counsel Robert Mueller's House Judiciary Committee hearing was a "disaster" that set back impeachment efforts.
    “Much as I hate to say it, this morning’s hearing was a disaster," Tribe tweeted. "Far from breathing life into his damning report, the tired Robert Mueller sucked the life out of it. The effort to save democracy and the rule of law from this lawless president has been set back, not advanced."


    https://www.foxnews.com/media/anti-trum … -president

    1. Onusonus profile image76
      Onusonusposted 6 months agoin reply to this

      Results from the Muller report as interpreted by the internet;
      https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/67232283_1146163842256316_7838094863118630912_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_eui2=AeG_krt6z6g-qBJsAAxz6IUxT6pcV9SPSGV--KLGMIaTydE4CN4W6uNxOADEbKGOucqIJSjej7p_Bs_L5F_eSSVYZxVlEMKN7KLL-TA61GCrag&_nc_oc=AQkaRGODMNfKXn_zg1o4SUjRR4YxWsm_x8PfL6Kmu1f9DNjP3cFPYvbS3cWKxcAaAFs&_nc_ht=scontent-sea1-1.xx&oh=470c240d10feb231a4ac8e150b62f88f&oe=5DA4C8C1

      1. GA Anderson profile image91
        GA Andersonposted 6 months agoin reply to this

        You finally did it Onusonus. A post I can agree with.

        However, I do think, relative to the non-political junkie general public, this was a win for the Democrats.

        GA

        1. Ken Burgess profile image91
          Ken Burgessposted 6 months agoin reply to this

          Hi GA,

          I would be terribly interested to read your explanation in detail as to how this was a win for the Democrats, where the non-political junkie general public is concerned.

          I deal with and talk to a great many "non-political junkies" and I can say the Mueller hearing wasn't on their radar, as in no-one even knew it was going on, nor did they care.

          In general, for ALL those who are not part of the "political junkie" crew, they don't trust Congress, they don't believe Congress, and the more Congress screams about Trump, the more they will trust & believe in Trump.

          Congress has had below a 10% approval rating for a loooong time.

      2. Live to Learn profile image82
        Live to Learnposted 6 months agoin reply to this

        I must be a libertarian at heart.

        1. Randy Godwin profile image92
          Randy Godwinposted 6 months agoin reply to this

          You must be something alright....

          There is a net profit of 10 million dollars due to fines and other seized property during the Mueller investigation. How much did we gain on Hillary's case?  Memes are often misleading, apparently intentionally so by the looks of this one.

          1. Live to Learn profile image82
            Live to Learnposted 6 months agoin reply to this

            It's funny. If a person on the left brings up Trump and a person to the right mentions Hillary. That is bad and uncalled for.

            Does the same apply to a comment from the left?

            1. Randy Godwin profile image92
              Randy Godwinposted 6 months agoin reply to this

              You agreed with the meme, didn't you? I merely pointed out Mueller's investigation netted a profit while Hillary's cost many millions and didn't accomplish anything.


              I didn't say anything about either "being bad and uncalled for."

              1. Live to Learn profile image82
                Live to Learnposted 6 months agoin reply to this

                Had this been reversed,  you would have.

                That's the point.

                1. Randy Godwin profile image92
                  Randy Godwinposted 6 months agoin reply to this

                  No, the point is on top of your head...

                  Do you care if Trump broke the law or not?

                  1. Ken Burgess profile image91
                    Ken Burgessposted 6 months agoin reply to this

                    Randy, do you care about the laws that were broken, and the overall corruption and abuse of power that fabricated the Russian Collusion investigation in the first place?

                    Do you care that a CIA director, FBI director, Head of the DOJ all colluded to create the impetus to try and destroy a candidate who was elected POTUS and those who supported him?

                    Do you care about the information that has been exposed such as the Susan Rice E-mail which proved Obama’s Involvement With DOJ/FBI During “CollusionGate”?

                    Do you care that it seems an entire body of senior people throughout D.C. worked to destroy the reputation and life of Donald Trump and all those around him, and set the process up to do so before he was ever sworn in as President?

                    If you don't care to prosecute the corruption rife in the Obama administration that created the false Russian Collusion investigation, from a fabricated dossier, or pursue any of the other corruption that was the cause of it... why would you be bothered with some BS obstruction charges that came because of a BS investigation into a false accusation?

    2. Randy Godwin profile image92
      Randy Godwinposted 6 months agoin reply to this

      Were you surprised at the amount of criminality exposed by the Mueller interview, Mike? That he refused to answer the written questions from Mueller? That he lied when he said he didn't know anything about the payoffs to the two paramours? Or that he wasn't exonerated by Mueller? Or did you already know he was a crook?

      LOL! at the Fox News take, what did you expect from them?

      1. GA Anderson profile image91
        GA Andersonposted 6 months agoin reply to this

        Randy I am tempted to check Fox News for their take on these hearings.

        Nah, no need. Onusonus' post covered it.

        Democrats: "See, he is guilty."

        Republicans; "See, he is innocent."

        However, as mentioned, relative to his post, I think this was a win for the Democrats. Nothing new for 'us', but, from what I am hearing from different news sources, it was impactful for the non-political junkie general public.

        GA

        1. Randy Godwin profile image92
          Randy Godwinposted 6 months agoin reply to this

          It's the best we could hope for, Gus. A lot came to light for those ignorant of Mueller's report. I really do not believe the republicans want a future liberal POTUS to act as if he/she is above the law.

        2. Jean Bakula profile image92
          Jean Bakulaposted 6 months agoin reply to this

          Mueller did find at least 10 counts of obstruction. But he shouldn't have wasted all that time and money if he wasn't going to indict a sitting President. It seems different lawyers have different views on that.

          I don't think D's want to impeach, they don't have the votes. Yes, Fox tried to divert by talking about the four women of color in the House again. It's amazing how little the public in general knows about the Mueller report, it's been out for some time now. Is reading a lost art?

          1. GA Anderson profile image91
            GA Andersonposted 6 months agoin reply to this

            No Jean, I don't think reading is a lost art, I just think the political preoccupation we have is understandably not the norm of the general public.

            GA

            1. Randy Godwin profile image92
              Randy Godwinposted 6 months agoin reply to this

              Ignorance is bliss....

            2. Jean Bakula profile image92
              Jean Bakulaposted 6 months agoin reply to this

              Probably true. It's worrisome that the Russians did interfere with our election though. Shouldn't both parties be concerned about that? I realize it's summer and to most, the election is far away. Situations can change a lot by the time next Fall rolls around.

              1. GA Anderson profile image91
                GA Andersonposted 6 months agoin reply to this

                Yes Jean, both parties should be concerned about election interference. Factually I don't know that they aren't--even with the latest McConnell headlines.

                But, and this has no basis other than my political cynicism, I can see the Republicans as less than enthusiastic about the issue for a couple of reasons; 1) the presented bills were Democrat sponsored and supported efforts--and the Republicans don't want the Dems to get any positive credit for anything in the run-up to the election, and, 2) would it be crazy to think that they might see future interference as beneficial to their party?

                Hmm . . .

                GA

                1. Jean Bakula profile image92
                  Jean Bakulaposted 6 months agoin reply to this

                  Yes, Republicans don't want Democrats to get positive credit for anything. But they are all doing a bad thing by holding up all legislation that could be helpful in other areas. It would be nice to vote them all out of office....

                  As far as the separation of parents and children at the border, that's squarely a Republican error, and Trump and Sessions reinterpreted the laws to be able to terrorize families so they wouldn't cross the border. There should have been a plan to track these children so they could be returned to their deported parents, some of them were infants. And they have been sneaky in moving these kids around and hiding them in different states.

                  1. GA Anderson profile image91
                    GA Andersonposted 6 months agoin reply to this

                    Jean, to get the obvious out of the way, yes, the separation policy was a horrific mistake and the Republicans do own it. And yes, both sides are acting politically instead of responsibly.

                    As for the rest of your comment . . . sounds right to me.

                    GA

              2. Ken Burgess profile image91
                Ken Burgessposted 6 months agoin reply to this

                The Russians did nothing compared to the Chinese and Saudis.


                https://www.investors.com/politics/edit … en-return/

                https://www.motherjones.com/politics/20 … rms-deals/

                Buying influence, the way of D.C. ... and Trump ruined it for a whole bunch of them.  That's his biggest crime, interfering with the corruption and payoffs going on with D.C. lifers.

          2. wilderness profile image95
            wildernessposted 6 months agoin reply to this

            "I don't think D's want to impeach"

            Of course they want to impeach; they are practically slavering and frothing at the mouth to do so.  And they claim that it is for the good of the country to do so.  They even have the votes to impeach, although the Senate will not vote to remove Trump from office.  (Impeachment does not include any punishment, just an "indictment" so to speak).

            But good for the country or not, it is not politically good for the Democratic party so they won't do it.  The good of the party trumps the good/needs of the nation every time.

            1. Jean Bakula profile image92
              Jean Bakulaposted 6 months agoin reply to this

              Some Americans dislike a liar who tells them he's building the wall, when he's not. And he is still separating children and parents on the border. It's inhumane, and there should have been a system in place to reunite these families, but they didn't think that far ahead.. I don't care if they shut the border down, I said that in another thread, if that's what it takes until we get a decent border security plan.

              Not all of the D's want to impeach, Pelosi won't let them if she can stop it. It went badly for the R's when they did it to Bill Clinton, or at least for Newt Gingrich. But it is sad the good of parties trumps the needs of the nation. I think people are getting sick of it.

              Shouldn't Mitch McConnell stop not letting votes come to the floor no matter what the subject is? I never got paid for a job where I did nothing, nor did you. His wife is an heir of one of the richest shipping companies in China, and she was found trying to give business to them. And McConnell gets a lot of money for KY. Those two really need to go.

              We need to make sure our voting machines can't be hacked by the Russians in 2020, or that we don't have so many false videos circulating the web, and nobody is doing anything about it.

              1. wilderness profile image95
                wildernessposted 6 months agoin reply to this

                "It's inhumane, and there should have been a system in place to reunite these families, but they didn't think that far ahead"

                You're right; they didn't.  So we blame Trump for their failure.

                "I think people are getting sick of it. "

                I hope so.  Trump was elected, IMO, because "we the people" are sick and tired of politicians that put themselves and their party ahead of the nation.  They don't seem to have learned the lesson, though - it appears more and more likely it will need to be repeated.  With a national referendum on term limits, or by simply voting them all out of office.  And after the fiasco of Trump's election it just might be possible to do that, for "we the people" really are getting sick of the sewage pit known as Capital Hill.

                You're never going to stop foreign interests from attempting to affect our elections, any more than we'll stop trying to affect theirs.  It's up to us to isolate what is true and what is false.  We'd better get cracking on learning how to set aside our own personal prejudices and view the world as it is rather than what we'd like it to be or what we think it is.

          3. promisem profile image99
            promisemposted 6 months agoin reply to this

            It was not a waste of time and money. By law, Mueller couldn't indict. Trump will likely get indicted after he leaves office based on the evidence that Mueller found.

            1. Randy Godwin profile image92
              Randy Godwinposted 6 months agoin reply to this

              And also, there were plenty of arrests and indictments besides Trump made during the investigation.

    3. Sharlee01 profile image84
      Sharlee01posted 6 months agoin reply to this

      My answer will be short and not so sweet. I found it very sad. Mueller's performance was sad... The Dems should have left this man alone, and let him retire with dignity. The Dems got nothing of value out of the circus, just more media coverage that in the end has shown them as being very desperate. It just seems they can't pull it together and move forward with some form of attractive agenda.  With this kind of bitter attitude and the far left pushing socialism, they should realize the path they are on is to nowhere.

      All and All there was nothing new gained from the hearing for either side.  The only one that's life was changed by the hearing was Mueller's.
      Very sad to see his performance...

      1. Jean Bakula profile image92
        Jean Bakulaposted 6 months agoin reply to this

        They got proof from Mueller that there were many counts of collusion and obstruction. We just can't indict him right now. So when Trump keeps telling people, "No collusion, no obstruction" it's just another lie. His supporters don't care that he just makes things up as he goes along.

        I'm not saying the Dems are doing anything to be proud of right now. They always eat their own, and if the Presidential hopefuls don't get it together, Trump will win again.

        1. JAKE Earthshine profile image76
          JAKE Earthshineposted 6 months agoin reply to this

          https://hubstatic.com/14618349.jpg

          Actually Jane, it's unclear as to whether or not Donald can be indicted now for his crimes because the only thing that stands in the way is a flimsy DOJ Policy which I'd like to see challenged, not a law, and the Dems are doing many critically important things that we can be proud of like FIGHTING Trump's DOJ which is trying to destroy our HealthCARE System as we speak, Fighting for a Minimum Wage increase for ALL American Workers, Fighting for Women's Rights and OBSTRUCTING Bozo Trump and his republicans from GUTTING Social Security and Medicare: Don't falsely compare republicans who are trying to take everything you own away, with Democrats who are trying to enhance your life:

          We are actually forced to live in an era where DEMS must fight mightily to preserve the health and financial well being of 99% of Americans and that's a testament to the Trump / Republican INSANITY:

          To summarize, Nancy "POWERHOUSE" Pelosi and the new Progressive Congress are doing critically important work to HALT, Stop and OBSTRUCT further destruction of our institutions by Trump and the Communist Russian Loving Republicans:

          1. Jean Bakula profile image92
            Jean Bakulaposted 6 months agoin reply to this

            Hello Jake,
            I know the Democrats are trying hard to preserve health care, protect the environment, try to solve border issues, and more. Its a shame McConnell is blocking everything they do. I hope they are successful and stay with their goals.

            1. JAKE Earthshine profile image76
              JAKE Earthshineposted 6 months agoin reply to this

              Hi Jean: Nancy Pelosi and Progressive Dems are indeed accomplishing many positive things behind the scenes and thank GOD for that, it doesn't receive much notice in the news because we are forced to follow very closely the oval office maniac who exhibits almost every "Symptom of Psychopathy" and that's ALARMING:

              I don't know if you've read the news, but Mitch McConnell has BLOCKED legislation which would impede Vladimir Putin's ability to STEAL another election for his little poodle named Donald, if that's not TREASON I honestly don't know what is: in addition, the Muller testimont the other day also uncovered yet another Trump Crime when Mueller said and I paraphrase that Donald was less than truthful to FBI Agents and that's called Perjury and potentially another count of OBSTRUCTION:

        2. Sharlee01 profile image84
          Sharlee01posted 6 months agoin reply to this

          We certainly walked away with diddering opinions on the hearing? Did you hear Mueller correct his statement to Congressmen Lieu?

          "Now, before we go to questions, I want to add a correction to my testimony this morning," Mueller said Wednesday afternoon. “I want to go back to one thing that was said this morning by Mr. Lieu who said, and I quote, ‘You didn't charge the president because of the OLC opinion.’”

          Mueller, who had agreed with Rep. Ted Lieu in the first hearing, said he now disagreed with that framing.

          “That is not the correct way to say it,” Mueller said. “As we say in the report and as I said at the opening, we did not reach a determination as to whether the president committed a crime.”

          One would think no crime was committed if the evidence had not been found to substantiate a crime?  He could have meant no crime was found as of yet?   

          I guess if the congressional committee continues an investigation, they may find something Mueller did not find? But I doubt it, I would think no stone wen unturned.

          1. Jean Bakula profile image92
            Jean Bakulaposted 6 months agoin reply to this

            Mueller specifically laid out evidence that there were at least 10 acts of obstruction of justice in the report and said that when he was interviewed the other day. I also read the report. You don't want to see or believe the truth. He just can't be indicted right now. Turn off Fox News.

            I don't believe collusion is a crime, but he is guilty of that too. A President isn't supposed to get "dirt" or take information from foreign countries, it opens him up to blackmail

            1. wilderness profile image95
              wildernessposted 6 months agoin reply to this

              Wonder why he said he could not find a crime, then?  Perhaps none of those 10 acts of obstruction actually rose to the level of criminality?  Perhaps he could not link Trump to them? 

              Why would he report 10 criminal acts and then say he couldn't find any?  Something seems amiss here.

              Yes, collusion is a crime, but Trump appears guilty of that about as much as guilty of criminal obstruction.  As no collusion (with Trump) was found your unsupported opinion that there just had to be some somewhere doesn't mean much.

              1. promisem profile image99
                promisemposted 6 months agoin reply to this

                Mueller clearly DID NOT say he could not find a crime.

                "While this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him."

            2. promisem profile image99
              promisemposted 6 months agoin reply to this

              Jean, you are entirely right. Don't let harrassment by Trump apologists stop you from speaking the truth.

              And yes, collusion is not a crime. Nor was it even in the DOJ authorization letter for Mueller. "No collusion" is another Fox News fantasy for Trump and his supporters.

        3. GA Anderson profile image91
          GA Andersonposted 6 months agoin reply to this

          Hold on a minute Jean. I know that in the world of legalese collusion must be addressed as conspiracy, but, whether called collusion or conspiracy the report did not find "proof" of either.

          Of course, if we just want to judge by our own opinions and prejudices then that is a different matter. Forget the courts and the rule of law, let's just judge by what we think.

          So in essence, and legally,  there was no collusion/conspiracy found. You are going to have to accept that.

          And to your final point, I can also, and again, agree. Both parties are playing politics with the American public be damned.

          GA

          1. Jean Bakula profile image92
            Jean Bakulaposted 6 months agoin reply to this

            GA,
            I forgot to say it, but I know collusion is not a crime.

            1. GA Anderson profile image91
              GA Andersonposted 6 months agoin reply to this

              I understand Jean. We were bombarded by "collusion" for over two years, yet when it came to legal conclusions we had to shift gears to "coordinated conspiracy." I think for most folks the two are seen as synonymous.

              GA

              1. Jean Bakula profile image92
                Jean Bakulaposted 6 months agoin reply to this

                "Coordinated conspiracy?" God. That's a new one on me. I guess I haven't been watching much news lately. But it gets depressing.

                1. GA Anderson profile image91
                  GA Andersonposted 6 months agoin reply to this

                  Yeah, "coordinated conspiracy" is the legalese of the Mueller report. But, to the everyday public, I think it is still the same as collusion.

                  GA

            2. GA Anderson profile image91
              GA Andersonposted 6 months agoin reply to this

              I gotcha Jean. Collusion/conspiracy the point remains.

              GA

  2. Readmikenow profile image95
    Readmikenowposted 6 months ago

    According to CNN, the Mueller report makes former president obama look very bad.

    “(CNN)The partisan warfare over the Mueller report will rage, but one thing cannot be denied: Former President Barack Obama looks just plain bad. On his watch, the Russians meddled in our democracy while his administration did nothing about it.”

    https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/19/opinions … LrB-wt5Ltg

    1. promisem profile image99
      promisemposted 6 months agoin reply to this

      That's an opinion piece by a Republican. No surprise he think Obama looks bad. Anything to deflect from the real issue.

      1. Ken Burgess profile image91
        Ken Burgessposted 6 months agoin reply to this

        What is the real issue?

        Wasn't that COLLUSION?

        Wasn't it about Trump being a traitor and Russian puppet?

        And he is not.

        So... if we don't care to prosecute the corruption rife in the Obama administration that created the false Russian Corruption investigation, from a false dossier, or pursue any of the other corruption that was the cause of it... why would we bother with some BS obstruction charges that came because of a BS investigation into a false accusation?

        Americans are smart enough to see the BS... and I love it, because the more this is pushed, the further they go with it, the more it will inspire people to get out and vote for him in 2020 rather than sit on their arses and do nothing.

        This continued assault on Trump is practically insuring he gets elected even if the economy starts to tank next year... people were sick of D.C. and the sick and twisted people we have running the show in Congress before Trump, that's the biggest reason why there is a President Trump.

        But the idiots don't get it in D.C., they double down, they get even more extreme, they go after Trump with more BS even after all the BS they came out with against him before the election made no difference.

        Maybe they think the Green New Deal will get them the votes despite their incessant stupidity.

    2. Randy Godwin profile image92
      Randy Godwinposted 6 months agoin reply to this

      So what is Trump doing to stop the Russians, Mike?

      1. Sharlee01 profile image84
        Sharlee01posted 6 months agoin reply to this

        It's up to Congress to do something, which they have been trying to do. It well appears M. Oconnell will not call for a vote.  Not sure why the President is getting the heat? There is no indication he would not sign a bill to aid in stopping Russian interference in our elections.

        bipartisan bill -   https://www.lankford.senate.gov/news/pr … rs-support

        https://www.mcclatchydc.com/latest-news … 16119.html

        1. Randy Godwin profile image92
          Randy Godwinposted 6 months agoin reply to this

          Trump doesn't want McConnell to allow the bills to be voted on, Shar. This should be plain to anyone with a lick of sense. "Moscow Mitch" knows Trump needs all the help he can get, just like last time.

          1. Sharlee01 profile image84
            Sharlee01posted 6 months agoin reply to this

            I have not read or heard that Trump has stuck his nose in to prevent this bill from passing?   It is my opinion the congress is at fault. This time it is Mc Connell holding the bill up.  I was simply pointing out that perhaps it is not Trump, but congress. I am not pointing the finger at Trump, he, as a rule, makes a statement when he is planning to not sign a bill.  This is fair play, Randy... You may be assuming too much. Why not go with the facts as they are, and not add the opinion Trump is the one stopping the progress of the bill?  M. McConnell made a statement of why he won't proceed with the bill. It is his doing that the bill will not proceed. I have not heard any statement from Trump on he bill as of yet. It could be coming this week?

          2. Sharlee01 profile image84
            Sharlee01posted 6 months agoin reply to this

            Really Randy, and how did you come about your knowledge of what Trump wants? I have not heard him say anything about the bill, not yet anyway.
            Once again common sense has Trump winning... Better come up with some new conspiracy. You will need it.

            1. Randy Godwin profile image92
              Randy Godwinposted 6 months agoin reply to this

              So why has Moscow mitch blocked 8 such bills, Shar? Give me your best explanation.

  3. Readmikenow profile image95
    Readmikenowposted 6 months ago

    https://hubstatic.com/14616532.jpg

  4. DoubleScorpion profile image78
    DoubleScorpionposted 6 months ago

    I watched the majority of both parts of this hearing...there was a lot of questions that was diverted. And for an investigation that was supposed to be looking into Russia meddling into our election process, it was highlighted as being very one-sided.

    To be honest, there was nothing that I saw or heard, that I think will do much to change anyone's previous opinions...

    However, I do think pressing with impeachment will do more harm to Dem's than good.

    From some of the things I have seen on various social media platforms, it appears that this may have been hurtful to the Dem's...I suppose we will see come election time.

    1. Sharlee01 profile image84
      Sharlee01posted 6 months agoin reply to this

      "I watched the majority of both parts of this hearing...there was a lot of questions that was diverted. And for an investigation that was supposed to be looking into Russia meddling into our election process, it was highlighted as being very one-sided."

      Good point.

  5. Readmikenow profile image95
    Readmikenowposted 6 months ago

    https://hubstatic.com/14616821.png

    1. Randy Godwin profile image92
      Randy Godwinposted 6 months agoin reply to this

      Dodging my question again, Mike?  tongue What is Trump doing to prevent the Russians from interfering in the next election? You were bitching about Obama's efforts so I'm sure you're not afraid to answer this simple question, bless your heart.  tongue

      1. Readmikenow profile image95
        Readmikenowposted 6 months agoin reply to this

        Randy,

        Do your OWN research.  When you ask me a question that you can find the answer to with a little effort, I'm not going to answer.

        I thought you'd figure you that one out by now.

        So, impress me with your research skills, find the answers, come back, and prove your point with your own research. 

        Waiting to be impressed.

        Have a good day.

        1. Randy Godwin profile image92
          Randy Godwinposted 6 months agoin reply to this

          No Mike, you open your mouth to blame Obama for Russian meddling when your hero Trump still denies they did anything. You know that and no simple excuse of me not searching for something which doesn't exist is merely deflecting because you don't have an answer.

          And yes of course, I know by now you like to state opinions but you don't like to be questioned about them. You got that right!

          1. Readmikenow profile image95
            Readmikenowposted 6 months agoin reply to this

            Have a good day Randy.  Bless your heart.

            1. Randy Godwin profile image92
              Randy Godwinposted 6 months agoin reply to this

              I will Mike, keep on avoiding answering questions. It's the only way you can avoid being wrong.

          2. Sharlee01 profile image84
            Sharlee01posted 6 months agoin reply to this

            Randy, The Mueller report is in... There was nothing really new that we did not already know. 

            Soon the Horowitz report will be done. It will be very interesting to see what he uncovers in regards to how the  FBI, and CIA, felt the need to investigate Trump. It will be interesting to see if there were FISA  irregularities. It may open a big can of worms? The Mueller report stands to open nothing but more investigations that will end at dead ends.

            1. Randy Godwin profile image92
              Randy Godwinposted 6 months agoin reply to this

              Do you think Trump is above the law, Shar? If not, you should be able to see the many counts of him obstructing justice.

              Do you care if Trump broke the law several times?

        2. Ken Burgess profile image91
          Ken Burgessposted 6 months agoin reply to this

          I think you are giving Randy too much credit.

          1. Readmikenow profile image95
            Readmikenowposted 6 months agoin reply to this

            I agree. An obvious flaw of mine.

            1. Randy Godwin profile image92
              Randy Godwinposted 6 months agoin reply to this

              One of many I'm sure...

          2. Randy Godwin profile image92
            Randy Godwinposted 6 months agoin reply to this

            And I think you're giving yourself too much credit, Ken. Not impressed by you either....

    2. Sharlee01 profile image84
      Sharlee01posted 6 months agoin reply to this

      One ould think after all this time, and investigating, if Trump split on the sidewalk it would have been unearthed? The Dems constantly accuse, maybe time to prove their accusations. It just seems many are not their innate common sense. No impeachment, just a lot of blubbering.

      1. promisem profile image99
        promisemposted 6 months agoin reply to this

        Right, just blubbering. Only 37 indictments including multiple Trump aides.

        Enough evidence that more than 1,000 former federal prosecutors say Trump can be indicted for obstruction after he leaves office.

        All just blubbering.

        1. Sharlee01 profile image84
          Sharlee01posted 6 months agoin reply to this

          Yes, correct 37 indictments, and all associates of Trump. Need I go through how many interviewd< and how much cash was spent. No need... If there was anything under the sun they could have indicted Trump on they would have recommended it be considered by the DOJ for indictment after he leaves the office. If there was anything he could be impeached on, he would be being impeached... Just time to use common sense. I posted a link to the Mueller hearing in regards to the 3 criteria question asked by Congressmen Jeffries. Mueller actually offered his view on the criteria. he had no respect for it. I suggest you read it.

          https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi … ce/594634/

          1. promisem profile image99
            promisemposted 6 months agoin reply to this

            No, Mueller could not have indicted Trump.

            He is a sitting President, and Mueller's boss already said in public that it was not possible. Your own link explains why Mueller didn't pursue an indictment.

            "Mueller had decided at the outset of his report that he could not and would not charge the president with crimes, thanks to Justice Department guidance."

            1. Sharlee01 profile image84
              Sharlee01posted 6 months agoin reply to this

              "could have indicted Trump on they would have recommended it be considered by the DOJ for indictment after he leaves the office.". I am very aware Mueller could not indict a sitting president, never said he could?  He certainly could report any crimes he may have committed to the DOJ. he then could be indicted after he leaves office in 5 years.

              Let me ask a question. If congress has a case against the president they can by law impeach him. Have missed something have they started an impeachment process? I mean would they not if they found actual indictable crimes?

              1. promisem profile image99
                promisemposted 6 months agoin reply to this

                You said Mueller could indict Trump: "If there was anything under the sun they could have indicted Trump...".

                The House leaders can impeach Trump whenever they are ready. They have plenty of ammunition, but they are waiting for the right time.

                The Republican Senate would not convict. So there is no point in starting the impeachment process yet.

                But if we get a recession by the end of next year, Trump's approval will dive. The odds of an impeachment will go way up.

                In the meantime, Trump will make more racist statements and offend many more people.

            2. Sharlee01 profile image84
              Sharlee01posted 6 months agoin reply to this

              Not sure if you read my comment correctly?

              Here is my comment the one you just replyed, and seem to be claiming I do not have a grip on the fact that Mueller could not indict a sitting president.

              " If there was anything under the sun they could have indicted Trump on they would have recommended it be CONSIDERED by the DOJ for INDICTMENT AFTRE HE LEAVES OFFICE.  " ONCE AGIAN I AM AWARE MUELLER COULD NOT INDICT THE PRESIDENT.

              Mueller certainly had a right to list in his report any and all evidence he found that would indicate Trump may have broken any form of law. As he did. His 10 concerns in regards to obstruction appear to have not been enough for the DOJ be concerned about.  In my opinion, if congress felt there were any impeachable crimes they would start an impeachment process. I am not sure why you would think they will wait and proceed at some other time?  This certainly would be a dereliction of duty.

              And yes my resource did explain Mueller could not and would not charge the president with crimes.  I felt the article was very informative in regards to Mueller's line of thinking, and why he did not feel he could indict the president.

  6. Randy Godwin profile image92
    Randy Godwinposted 6 months ago

    It was a disaster for Trump. Mueller testified Trump lied on numerous occasions and especially on the written answers he--his lawyers--bothered to answer. Mueller also agreed Trump committed at least 5 obstruction of justice infractions and also lied about his deals with Putin on the Moscow Tower Project.


    If Obama had broken the law this many times, the Right would have stormed the Oval Office. Get real folks. The Russians don't care which party is in power. They only want to divide the country and you guys on the Right are falling for it.


    Do you even care if the POTUS is a criminal?

    1. Sharlee01 profile image84
      Sharlee01posted 6 months agoin reply to this

      Randy. Not sure if your sentiment is correct. Does it seem the Dems are the ones running around like chickens with their heads cut off?  The Republicans have pretty much stayed balanced.any of us never bought into Russia Russia Russia. They certainly did try to interfere with our election. However, they did not have to do anything to divide us. That's to be expected when two sets of views are so far apart and collide.

      1. Randy Godwin profile image92
        Randy Godwinposted 6 months agoin reply to this

        The question was, "Do you even care if the POTUS is  a criminal"?  Or do you believe Mueller and his aides lied in the report? One or the other...

        1. Sharlee01 profile image84
          Sharlee01posted 6 months agoin reply to this

          Randy,  Trump has not committed any form of crime? Not sure why you would continue down this path? I think you need to listen in full to the Mueller hearing. There just were no crimes...  Did you ever slow down and consider if congress while reading the Mueller report found Trump had crimes committed any form of a crime they would not at best start impeachment? You can be assured they went over the report with a fine-tooth comb. Just time to drop all this. Trump did not commit any form of an impeachable or indictable crime or he would have been on the hot seat.  Now as I have been predicting, get ready for some real crimes... The Horowitz report is coming. Lots of proof to lots of crimes. It's all about common sense, and a sloppy trial.

          "“Now, before we go to questions, I want to add a correction to my testimony this morning," Mueller said Wednesday afternoon. “I want to go back to one thing that was said this morning by Mr. Lieu who said, and I quote, ‘You didn't charge the president because of the OLC opinion.’”

          Mueller, who had agreed with Rep. Ted Lieu in the first hearing, said he now disagreed with that framing.

          “That is not the correct way to say it,” Mueller said. “As we say in the report and as I said at the opening, we did not reach a determination as to whether the president committed a crime.”

          https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news … ging-trump

          1. Randy Godwin profile image92
            Randy Godwinposted 6 months agoin reply to this

            All 3 of the criteria of obstruction of justice fit exactly 5 of the attempts by Trump. These are crimes which Mueller agreed when asked. What do you not understand about them?

            One more time. Do you care if he broke the law?

            1. PrettyPanther profile image82
              PrettyPantherposted 6 months agoin reply to this

              Do you ever feel like you're talking to an undulating bank of opaque fog?

              1. GA Anderson profile image91
                GA Andersonposted 6 months agoin reply to this

                I am not trying to be obstinate PrettyPanther, but I think there might be a couple of reasons for that fog.

                1. Is "Did not determine" the same as "Made no determination"?

                In other words did Mueller truly make no determination because they couldn't be sure, or, because of the OLC? I think the fog around that 'determination' is why one side is honestly claiming no crime and the other is claiming obvious crime.

                2. "Corrupt intent" - That seems to be a biggie.

                Anti-Trumpers clearly see corrupt intent, even if for no other reason than Trump is Trump. Pro-Trumpers say since no crime of collusion, (yes, I know the "conspiracy" clarification), was found there can be no corrupt intent. How could there be if he had no crime to try to hide from investigation.

                Speaking to the "3 points" that make 5 of his efforts an obvious obstruction crime--I don't know that Mueller affirmed that in his testimony, I don't remember--it may be that all we have to help our opinions are the offerings of pundits. It doesn't matter if it is dozens of station-proffered pundits or 1000 prosecutors - it is still an opinion and not a finding.

                Until a true court or proceeding offers actual findings on these points, the real source of your fog is Vol. 2 of the Mueller report.

                As things stand, I can see possible, (I am not smart enough to say "probable"), validity for Sharlee's comments. Particularly with Mueller's most recent clarification.

                And just so you don't wonder about my 'fence sitting'; from what I read in the report, I could see about three of those ten instances possibly being obstruction crimes, but that is possibly - not certainly.

                GA

                1. Randy Godwin profile image92
                  Randy Godwinposted 6 months agoin reply to this

                  Mueller was asked specifically about the criteria of several of the 10, Mueller answered yes to each of the 3 criteria when questioned by the particular congresspersons. Especially of which included Don McGann's interview by Mueller's team.

                  He admitted Trump asked him to fire Mueller. He also said Trump ordered him to write an untrue statement  to cover Trump's denial of the attempt. I mean Dam Gus, do you see why Trump is trying so hard to keep McGann from testifying?

                  1. GA Anderson profile image91
                    GA Andersonposted 6 months agoin reply to this

                    I do see why Pres. Trump doesn't want McGann to testify. It was those "charges" that I found most likely amounting to obstruction. I missed Mueller's testimony as you indicated, but I am only surprised that he affirmed "corrupt intent," otherwise I agree.

                    And there is where I have a bit of fog in my own decision-making process; does "corrupt intent" require a crime? I am already leaning to agreeing with the obstruction claims, and if the criteria were simply "intent" it would be a slam-dunk for me.

                    But . . . the law clearly says corrupt intent, and I truly don't know if an intent can be corrupt if the 'intender' is not trying to hide a crime. I understand that is giving Pres. Trump a huge benefit of the doubt--he may have thought a crime of collusion, (yes, conspiracy), was a possible finding, and if so his intent was corrupt. But, what if, (again a huge benefit of the doubt), his intent was merely to end the investigation because he knew there was no crime? Then his intent would not be corrupt.

                    I am giving you some honest non-partisan thoughts here bud. It would be much easier to stand on one side of the fence, or the other and stake a position, but there is just enough ambiguity to leave the door open for either possibility.

                    As you can see, I am also in that "undulating fog" you spoke of.

                    GA

              2. Randy Godwin profile image92
                Randy Godwinposted 6 months agoin reply to this

                Not fog exactly. More like bovine excretion....

                1. Sharlee01 profile image84
                  Sharlee01posted 6 months agoin reply to this

                  How crude.. But that is what I have come to expect when you're cornered... Has Trump been arrested yet?  Has Congress voted on Impeachment? No, they never will. Like I said common sense can be so hard to take.

                  1. Readmikenow profile image95
                    Readmikenowposted 6 months agoin reply to this

                    Sharlee, this is what happens when a rural school system fails to properly educate their students about American history, government or culture.  Yes, when these inadequately educated individuals, with very limited ability to properly analyze facts, as well as no ability to be objective, respond we can always expect such things. Of course proving a point with research is a concept beyond them.  I say let them have their delusions and enjoy the comedy.  All we can say is "Bless their heart."

                  2. promisem profile image99
                    promisemposted 6 months agoin reply to this

                    You can't arrest or indict a seating President. That will come later after Trump leaves office.

            2. Sharlee01 profile image84
              Sharlee01posted 6 months agoin reply to this

              As I said, no laws actually broken.   And you are dreaming Mueller at no point agreed any laws were broken?  I would be glad to see a quote or two. Plenty of info on the hearing. You may just be reading to produce what you had hoped to hear.  At any rate, it's over, it's a dead issue.

            3. Sharlee01 profile image84
              Sharlee01posted 6 months agoin reply to this

              Here is Mueller's testimony on 3 criteria. This should work to clarify your opinion on how Mueller felt about the 3 criteria question. The resource link below the quote. It is clear he did not ascribe to the 3 criteria Congressman Jeffries spoke of.  It was the media that jumped on the 3 criteria question. They just reported it out of context. Guess you picked it up on CNN?  Talk about "bovine excretion"...  Randy, you must do a bit of real research. I mean being nasty can only take you so far.

              Mueller Testamony -  "During today’s House Judiciary Committee hearing, Democratic Representative Hakeem Jeffries sought to demonstrate the disconnect by walking Mueller through the three-prong test.

              “Let me refer you to page 87 and 88 of volume 2 where you conclude the attempt to remove the special counsel would qualify as an obstructive act if it would naturally obstruct the investigation and any grand-jury proceedings that might flow from the inquiry. Correct?” Jeffries asked.

              “Yes,” Mueller said, confirming the obstructive act.

              “Your report found on page 89, volume 2, that substantial evidence indicates that by June 17, the president knew his conduct was under investigation by a federal prosecutor who would present any evidence of federal crimes to a grand jury. True?” Jeffries asked.

              “True,” Mueller said, confirming the nexus to an official proceeding.

              Jeffries then moved on to the third element, corrupt intent, and Mueller once again effectively affirmed the point:

              Jeffries: Is it fair to say the president viewed the special counsel’s investigation as adverse to his own interest?

              Mueller: I think that generally is true.

              Jeffries: The investigation found evidence, quote, “that the president knew that he should not have directed Don McGahn to fire the special counsel.” Correct?

              Mueller: Where do you have that quote?

              Jeffries: Page 90, volume 2. “There’s evidence that the president knew he should not have made those calls to McGahn,” closed quote.

              Mueller: I see that. Yes, that’s accurate.

              Mueller, seeing the trick, tried to cut it off.    “Let me just say, if I might, I don’t subscribe necessarily to your—the way you analyzed that. I’m not saying it’s out of the ballpark, but I’m not supportive of that analytical charge,” he said.

              https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi … ce/594634/

        2. Sharlee01 profile image84
          Sharlee01posted 6 months agoin reply to this

          No, they did not lie in the report. The Attornies that wrote the report were very careful not to lie. They listed ten well thought out inuendos. Ten points that they well knew could never be considered or even proven in a court of law. It' all "he said she said crap". However, it was enough to stir up hysteria and well played in the media. I do not believe Trump committed any intentional crime, I very much believe none of the ten points could be argued in a court of law. The Cohen campaign violation by paying two women off was thrown out of court two weeks ago. We are down to nine.

          Trump will never be indicted on any of these points of contention. Once again another waiting game. And we sort of know the end results, now don't we?  This above comment is just my opinion. As you feel Trump broke the law, I disagree, as you feel he will be indicted at some point, I don't. I do realize it's hard for you to see my point of view. It's equally hard for me to see yours. I guess it's time to come up with a little insult? I can't wait... I do know Libs just can't be wrong, so no problem if you must vent.  It's become expected and gives me a good laugh.

          1. Randy Godwin profile image92
            Randy Godwinposted 6 months agoin reply to this

            Even if all 3 criteria of OJ are met you still believe he didn't break the law?  Mueller said all 3 were met in 5 of the OJ incidents in his report.

            1. Sharlee01 profile image84
              Sharlee01posted 6 months agoin reply to this

              After reading the long boring Mueller report and seeing him testify in front of congress. I don't even think he wrote the report. I will say once again I do not think Trump committed any form, of a crime he could be indicted for or impeached for.

              If ur congress has a case against the president they can impeach. Have I missed something have they started an impeachment process? I mean would they not if they found actual crimes? It is their duty.

              1. Randy Godwin profile image92
                Randy Godwinposted 6 months agoin reply to this

                Then you don't know the law, Shar. Do you care if Trump broke the law? Everyone on the Right seems to avoid answering this question.

  7. Live to Learn profile image82
    Live to Learnposted 6 months ago

    I was impressed with Mueller's refusal to be dragged into the drama. He had a job. He did it. End of story. Make of it what you will.

    The guy's a lone swimmer trying to navigate through a sea of sharks and come out intact.

  8. Readmikenow profile image95
    Readmikenowposted 6 months ago

    https://hubstatic.com/14619777.jpg

    1. Randy Godwin profile image92
      Randy Godwinposted 6 months agoin reply to this

      That's about your speed, Mike!

  9. Ken Burgess profile image91
    Ken Burgessposted 6 months ago

    What it really all boils down to...
    Trumps opposition, a very large swath of the media, D.C. and quite a few billionaires, spent over two years trying to convince America that Trump was guilty of heinous crimes.
    After which, his approval is still sitting at 45% and half the country still believes all this is political garbage not criminal.
    And most likely, they never will convince half the country he is guilty of anything more than telling those in D.C. and the media exactly what 45% or more of the country thinks of them, and their lies and political agendas.

 
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