An analysis of the Trump Transcript

1. 82

   peoplepower73posted 5 years ago

   Here is line-by-line analysis of the released transcript, which shows a freewheeling Trump by buttering up his interlocutor, passing along unverified and dubious allegations about Biden and Democrats, and cajoling the Ukrainian leader into doing him a “favor.”
   
   Your thoughts?
   
   https://www.politico.com/news/2019/09/2 … sis-000039

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   1. 0

      promisemposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      If Trump is willing to doctor a hurricane map, he is certainly willing to doctor a transcript that is getting him impeached.
      
      https://www.washingtonpost.com/technolo … aine-call/

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   2. 73

      Carolyn M Fieldsposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      Line by line analysis of something that isn't an acual transcript of a conversation. Wow. So much effort to make Trump look bad.

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         promisemposted 5 years agoin reply to this

         Trump does more than look bad when he breaks U.S. laws forbidding foreign interference in our elections.

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   3. 90

      MizBejabbersposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      First off, it is not a transcript in the actual sense. How can we trust what might be a fabrication?

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         promisemposted 5 years agoin reply to this

         Note the ellipses at the top of pages 3 and 4 where they chopped out some of Trump's comments about Biden.
         
         So you are correct. It cannot be trusted.
         
         https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/u … 9.2019.pdf

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         1. 59

            Randy Godwinposted 5 years agoin reply to this

            There was over 40 minutes of the phone call, but the "transcript" only contained about 12 minutes. Nothing to see here, move along!

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            1. 0

               promisemposted 5 years agoin reply to this

               I'm sure they spent the other 28 minutes with Trump telling the Ukrainian to spend a lot more money at Trump resorts, casinos and golf courses.
               
               After all, POTUS has to earn a living like everyone else.

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               1. 59

                  Randy Godwinposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                  All those countries renting hundreds of rooms at his resorts--and not using the majority of them--are earning him plenty as it is. Another breach of his oath....

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         2. 90

            MizBejabbersposted 5 years agoin reply to this

            Okay, you are correct about the ellipses. There are two sets in the paragraph about Crowdstrike and one set in the paragraph concerning Biden's son. It is certainly an edited transcript, if it is indeed a transcript. Ellipses, as most writers know, denote text not quoted. I think we can speculate what was left out that they didn't want known. If that isn't true, then the text should have been included. I hope the investigators demand, and get, a full transcript.

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      2. 62

         dianetrotterposted 5 years agoin reply to this

         I'd like to see the text that was left out.

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2. 82

   peoplepower73posted 5 years ago

   One of the most important points is this transcript is on page 4 where Trump says Biden stopped the prosecution. He didn't do that.  Here is what happened and this is where Trump wants the dirt on Biden.
   
   "Ukraine’s chief prosecutor Viktor Shokin, who was not considered “a very good prosecutor” by Ukraine’s own parliament, which voted to remove him. Indeed, Shokin was widely condemned as soft on corruption and fired in 2016 amid international pressure to remove him. Trump and Giuliani, however, have claimed that Biden alone urged Ukraine to fire Shokin because he was investigating the Ukrainian gas company Burisma, whose board members included Biden’s son Hunter. According to documents obtained by Bloomberg earlier this year, there was no active investigation of Burisma when Shokin was fired—it had been dormant for more than a year by that point. Subsequent prosecutor generals have insisted they’ve found no evidence of wrongdoing by either Biden or his son."

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   1. 73

      Carolyn M Fieldsposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video … cutor.html
      
      In this clip from a January 2018 appearance at the Council on Foreign Relations, former Vice President Joe Biden seems to brag about threatening to withhold military aid to Ukraine as a pressure tactic to force the firing of a prosecutor he did not like.
      
      What is your take on this?

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      1. 59

         Randy Godwinposted 5 years agoin reply to this

         Did you know a group of republicans were onboard with Biden's--and other world leaders, to get rid of the corrupt prosecutor? Biden was proud he achieved this much wanted move to end the prosecutor's corruption. Manafort was involved with corruption as well and is doing time for it.
         
         Trump is corrupt and he too will go.

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      2. 81

         Don Wposted 5 years agoin reply to this

         I can tell you my take.
         
         Biden legitimately using the authority of the US government to put pressure on Ukraine to address endemic corruption and get rid of a useless General Prosecutor is fine. 
         
         Biden secretly asking the president of the Ukraine to specifically investigate Mitt Romney's son a year before the 2012 general election, would not have been fine.
         
         Do you see the difference?

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         1. 82

            peoplepower73posted 5 years agoin reply to this

            Don W:
            
            Biden secretly asking the president of the Ukraine to specifically investigate Mitt Romney's son a year before the 2012 general election, would not have been fine.
            
            Do you see the difference?
            
            
            Yes I can see the difference. At  that time, Biden wasn't running for office so therefore he didn't use it to gain political advantage.  Trump on the other hand is running for office against Biden and he is using the Ukraine investigation of  Biden for political advantage.

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         2. 95

            Readmikenowposted 5 years agoin reply to this

            "Biden legitimately using the authority"
            
            I hate to be the one to tell you this but it is NOT the role of the United States to meddle in the internal affairs of a foreign country.  The prosecutor was corrupt, so are many other politicians in the Ukraine.  It's interesting how Biden only asked a corrupt prosecutor who was starting an investigation into his son to be fired.
            
            Please provide me other countries where a US politician made a condition of aid that a member of a government be fired first and one that was investigating the American politician's son.
            
            What is China said they would agree to our trade demands if Maxine Waters was removed from Congress? More than one organization has listed her as the most corrupt politician in Congress, which is impressive considering the competition.
            
            So, a corrupt US politician demanded a corrupt Ukrainian politician be fired who was investigating his son who was getting $50,000 a month from an energy company where he did nothing.  I think an investigation into Biden is a valid request.

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            1. 91

               crankaliciousposted 5 years agoin reply to this

               Sorry, but you're repeating lies.
               
               Biden carried out the will of the U.S., Republicans, and numerous other governments regarding the corrupt prosecutor.
               
               The investigation was not into his son and had been dormant for over a year. He was requesting, like many others, that Ukraine replace Shokin with a prosecutor who WOULD investigate corruption, which is probably tied to the fact that Shokin had something to do with the $1.8 billion in aid disappearing.
               
               Corruption should be investigated. The American people would support it. Enlisting our enemies, like China, to do it, is downright traitorous. If Trump had any interest in getting rid of corruption, he would have hired less corrupt people and he would have put together a commission to investigate.

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      3. 71

         Ken Burgessposted 5 years agoin reply to this

         Joe Biden is an arrogant, elitist, corrupt politician who already had way to many years in D.C.
         As President he would be a frontman for the worst, most corrupt and criminal activities to transpire in American history. 
         He is a bought and paid for China frontman, he will fastrack America to economic ruin and hasten China to center stage in world affairs, and global control.
         He would be even worse for the country than Clinton would have been or Trump may be... Whatever side of the aisle you are on, this man is not the solution to any American problem.

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         1. 0

            promisemposted 5 years agoin reply to this

            Let's be clear. Anyone who isn't a far right extremist is evil.

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         2. 59

            Randy Godwinposted 5 years agoin reply to this

            I don't believe anyone could be as crooked as Trump, Ken. He's been a lying arrogant  cretin long before you wanted him to be POTUS. He went bankrupt running a casino for gosh sakes. How can anyone do that with the odds in the house's favor?
            
            Of course, the gaming commission shut down around 30% of the slot machines on opening day because they were "malfunctioning" in the house's favor. Once a thief, always a thief....

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         3. 91

            crankaliciousposted 5 years agoin reply to this

            Ken,
            
            I'm disappointed by what appears to me to be parroting of the right-wing line on all this, which is that it's not Trump that's done anything wrong, but Biden, who is corrupt.
            
            I might give you the arrogant and the elitist stuff - no problem there. But where's the evidence that he's corrupt? Just because all politicians are corrupt?
            
            Yet here we have Trump acting as some kind of traitor, asking foreign governments to interfere in our elections and investigate a political rival, firing a well-respected diplomate and trying to smear here, using his personal lawyer to expedite meetings and put pressure on governments to do his bidding in exchange for preferential treatment.
            
            If we allow a President to behave like this, selling out our country for his personal needs, we'll never come back. No American can accept what is happening. It's just getting worse and worse, to an almost unbelievable degree. In fact, I don't think anyone could have ever predicted that a President would ever behave this way, to betray the tenets of his country and his office to this degree.
            
            We agree on the nature of politicians, but maybe it's not just politicians, it's many of the ultra-rich too. Trump is one of those, a guy who thinks he can do whatever he wants and laws, oaths, constitutions be damned.

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            1. 71

               Ken Burgessposted 5 years agoin reply to this

               Only someone with a considerable amount of bias could even ask that question.
               
               In 2013, Hunter Biden was managing partner in the private equity firm Rosemont Seneca Partners. In December of that year, Vice President Biden and his son Hunter flew aboard Air Force Two to China. Ten days after the trip, a subsidiary of the Bank of China named Bohai Capital signed an exclusive deal with Hunter Biden and Chris Heinz’s Rosemont to form a $1 billion joint-investment fund called Bohai Harvest RST. The deal was later increased to $1.5 billion.
               
               Do I have to point out the obvious?
               
               Do you actually expect anyone of open-mind and some objectivity to believe Hunter Biden would have been able to secure 1.5 billion dollars from China if not for whatever Joe Biden promised them in that meeting?
               
               If you add to this Hunter's position in a company in Ukraine that made 1.8 Billion dollars in American funds disappear, and you don't see that as an issue, then there is no point discussing it further.
               
               
               
               Sorry to tell you this, but we are already there.
               
               Bush & Cheney made trillions disappear with the Iraq War.
               
               Obama & Biden continued right on with it.
               
               Ever wonder how it is that Obama is buying a 11 million dollar estate on Martha's Vineyard, when he wasn't worth 11 million before becoming President?
               
               Ever wonder how socialist Bernie Sanders, a Senator from Vermont, can afford a 100k car and 3 multi-million dollar mansions?
               -----
               
               So Trump is a uncouth crook...
               
               Fantastic, I hope he exposes them all in D.C. I hope he brings the Halls of Congress down on their heads and the list of those who fall to him grows tenfold. 
               
               I hope Clinton, Comey, Strzok, Brennan and Biden are only the beginning. I hope when he is done he has flushed out dozens more into the light and exposed them.
               
               If Trump loses 2020 in the process fine by me, so long as he loses to someone like Warren, who will carry on the 'will of the people' rather than selling them out to the highest bidder.

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               1. 91

                  crankaliciousposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                  Ken,
                  
                  What is an acceptable level of wealth one is allowed to have after leaving public office?
                  
                  I believe if you look at the amount of money the Obamas made from their books and their signing bonuses and their speaking fees, it's not surprising they can afford an $11 million dollar estate.
                  
                  What is your evidence for the Obamas and Bernie Sanders being corrupt, or are you just saying that all politicians are corrupt if they have money because that money was acquired as the result of doing public service?
                  
                  Even Forbes reports that the Biden situation in Ukraine wasn't corrupt:
                  
                  https://www.forbes.com/sites/lisettevoy … da11bd3938
                  
                  Not exactly a left-wing rag. It would appear that by making the move that Biden did, he was attempting to have somebody put in who WOULD investigate the corruption and the disappearance of the U.S. aid. So this doesn't jive at all with your story about the relationship between Hunter Biden and the lost aid. Your explanation makes absolutely no sense. Why would Biden want a prosecutor who was going to investigate corruption if his son was at risk?
                  
                  https://theintercept.com/2019/05/10/rum … rmer-says/
                  
                  You are probably right though, no need to discuss this further. If you believe that everyone in Washington is corrupt, then there is no hope.
                  
                  Trump should have attempted to investigate such things the second he got into office and not waited until it was political expedient for him to do so and involve foreign governments in the process.

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         4. 62

            dianetrotterposted 5 years agoin reply to this

            What you are saying may be 100% correct.  Does it excuse the extortionist pressure for Ukraine to open an investigation against BIden?

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