Talk about bureaucry and red tape. Check out your state.

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   tsmogposted 6 weeks ago

   Nationwide review finds patchwork, ‘broken’ systems for resolving open records disputes
   by AP News (Mar 10, 2024)
   https://apnews.com/article/open-records … ubscribers
   
   The article discusses with real life experience the daunting task and cost to get public records these days. Seems, suing is the solution.
   
   Take a peek at the Sunshine laws for your state.
   What are the sunshine laws in each state?
   
   Here is a broad breakdown of the various processes that exist in each state for resolving residents’ open government complaints. Click on a state or select from the dropdown to view details.
   
   "A nationwide review of procedures by The Associated Press and CNHI News, timed to Sunshine Week, found that fewer than a third of states have offices that can resolve residents’ complaints by forcing agencies to turn over documents or comply with open meetings requirements.
   
   In most states, residents have just one meaningful option when they believe an agency is illegally withholding public information: to wage a legal battle. This system has a chilling effect, discouraging private citizens from finding out about everything from police investigations to how elected officials make decisions and spend taxpayer money."
   
   "Beyond varying vastly from state to state, systems for resolving open government disputes can be complicated and daunting to navigate. They also can carry hefty fees for those seeking information."

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      Nathanvilleposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

      I’ve learnt something new:  I’ve never heard the term ‘sunshine laws’ before; but in essence we have that in the UK anyway e.g. open government; Freedom of Information Act; critical Government Departments that hold information, such as the ONS (Office of National Statistics) and ‘The National Archives’, are NOT answerable to the Government e.g. they are answerable to Parliament only, specifically to prevent unscrupulous Governments from meddling or withholding data for political gain.

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         tsmogposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

         It was new 'knowledge' to me. I had never thought it would be such a task to get public information from a public agency no matter the cause for why. I spent some time compare/contrast different states.
         
         What stood out for me is; "In most states, residents have just one meaningful option when they believe an agency is illegally withholding public information: to wage a legal battle. This system has a chilling effect, discouraging private citizens from finding out about everything from police investigations to how elected officials make decisions and spend taxpayer money."
         
         I would say that may be why there are so many advocacy groups. In other words, as quoted from Martin Luther King, Jr., "There is power in numbers and there is power in unity."

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            Nathanvilleposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

            Yep, absolutely; "There is power in numbers and there is power in unity."  And “advocacy groups” (pressure groups/lobby groups), also play a major role in British Politics – but for different reasons than as you describe for America.
            
            In the UK Pressure Groups have a good track record of lobbying Parliament/Government to great effect at times e.g. over the years influencing Government to work with the food industry to help make it easier for shoppers to make an informed decision when shopping, in relation to healthy eating – such as the ‘traffic light’ labelling on food packaging.
            
            One of the biggest impact in this respect is that these days you’ll never see food on the shelves that contain artificial colouring, acritical flavouring and artificial preservatives; because given a clear choose (through good labelling) British shoppers will almost invariably opt to buy food with natural colouring, natural flavouring and natural preservatives. 
            
            The only real downside, is that without artificial flavouring, some food products sold in Britain don’t stay fresh as long as the similar products sold in America e.g. Apples and bread as two examples that spring to mind.
            
            An American view on the subject of American bread vs European bread: https://youtu.be/FovIyqov1uA

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               tsmogposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

               Thanks for the reply!!
               
               Yes, advocacy groups/organizations is something I have learned to utilize since being retired particularly with health issues. It is amazing how many topics there are for them. Civil rights and Health are popular.
               
               I found the YouTube on bread quite comical, honestly, though many truths were relevant. Of course, it was viewing it through my personal lens.
               
               For me, being diabetic, today, bread is a source of carbohydrates. My meal intake of carbs is 45 - 60g hopefully closer to 45g to maintain blood glucose levels. I take meds for diabetes and an objective is not have blood glucose level drop along with its symptoms. It is known as hypoglycemia. Key is for a meal is to get at least 45g carbs. I eat two major meals with a snack between them of 20g of carbs.
               
               I get Oroweat Country Style Buttermilk bread these days because it is lower in potassium than the 12 grains and seeds loaf I used to get. Potassium intake is almost more important than carbs. Balancing the two becomes a puzzle.
               
               One slice of the bread I use today = 22g of carbs. Two slices almost meets my meal requirement of 45g carbs, e.g. a sandwich. Potassium = 50mg per slice. Note: My total potassium intake per day aim is 1,400mg. Recommended intake is 3,400 mg. So, seen is I am less than half of recommended.
               
               One slice of the bread I use to get the 12 grain and seeds bread carbs = 19g and potassium = 100 mg. The potassium level was more important than the carb level, so I switched.
               
               Oroweat Reading there 'About' page is educational
               https://www.oroweat.com/
               
               A long way to get to, yes, nutrition labels are very important at least for me. Bakery bread has no labels. And, what is the propensity to eat the 'right amount' 'for me'? Besides that there is only one bread bakery near the outskirts of town. I'm not going to drive that far.
               
               So, seen, yes he is right convenience is perhaps paramount. However, he is wrong on how long the bread is on shelf from when it is baked. It is definitely not three weeks! The tag on the bread loaf is color coded to give the time of baked.
               
               I go shopping on Mon mornings at 6:30 am. I go to the bread isle first and say hello to Josh. He is in charge of the bakery/breads. He is removing the breads that are out of date and rotating the stock on the shelves. I always get the freshest loaf that will last me the week. The out-of-date bread is taken to the area for products that are past shelf life, but not past 'use date'.
               
               The Colored Tags on Your Bread Actually Mean Something—Here's What You Need to Know by Eating Well (Apr 3, 2023)
               https://www.eatingwell.com/article/7964 … read-mean/
               
               "Typically, those loaves have been baked within a day or two of when they're for sale in the store. But to know exactly when it was baked, you want to take a look at the colored plastic tag or tie that closes the bag. Those pieces of plastic are called "bread clips" (aka bread tabs, bag clips, bread bag clips or bread buckles). The tag's color indicates when the loaf was stocked on the store's shelves."

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                  Nathanvilleposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

                  Yeah, a lot of our friends and relatives are diabetic, so I know what you are going through, and sympathise with you – I just glad I don’t have that problem.
                  
                  The colour coding (for the day of the week) on the bread plastic tags is a brilliant idea; it’s a shame it’s not universal.  We don’t have that system in the UK e.g. it’s just the ‘best by date’ printed in black on a white sticky tie around the neck of the bread bag.  Some of the more expensive bread used to use the plastic tags in Britain (but not colour coded), as it’s easier to reseal the bread bag with them, rather than trying to use the sticky tab – But these days, you don’t see the plastic tags so much in the UK because bakeries have moved away from their use to save plastic.
                  
                  One thing that caught my interest is your mention that a fresh loaf will last the week; my question is, do you keep your bread at room temperature in the kitchen e.g. in a bread bin, or do you keep it in the fridge?
                  
                  The reason for asking is that British bread (freshly baked) will typically last 2 or 3 days at most at room temperature in the kitchen; whereas, if we keep it in the fridge it will last up to a week before it starts to go mouldy e.g. no artificial preservatives in British Bread.
                  
                  When we have a BBQ or invite friends around for a buffet, we also treat ourselves to a French stick bread; but that rock hard if you don’t use it within 24 hours:  So rather than waste it, any French stick, leftover the following day, we use to make French stick pizzas which we then put in the freezer for a treat at a later date.
                  
                  Obviously Britain doesn’t have as many bakeries as France, but from reading your feedback about the lack of availability of freshly baked bread in America, where you say “….only one bread bakery near the outskirts of town….” From where you live; I feel quite fortunate in that not only are bakeries common place in the UK e.g. around 174 in Bristol alone, but also most supermarket stores have an on-site bakery so that shoppers have a choice between buying freshly baked bread (baked and packaged on site) from the bakery counter in the supermarket (which is more expensive) or the cheaper, pre-packed bread on the shelves.  When you walk into a supermarket you can tell when they’ve just baked a batch –because of that distinctive aroma from freshly baked bread wafting around the store.
                  
                  This short video is of a typical freshly baked bread counter in a typical supermarket in the UK (it also clearly shows the prices, so that you can make your own comparison on pricing of fresh bread in UK vs USA) – I’d be interested in any observations you make:  N.B.  Only the first half of the video shows the in-store freshly baked bread – the 2nd half of the video show the standard commercially pre-packed mast-produced bread products shipped to the supermarket every day: https://youtu.be/QiRXcygrTYw

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                     tsmogposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

                     Thanks for the input!
                     
                     First, I keep my bread in the fridge. A loaf has 14 slices of usable slices. I say that because I don't like to use the heels for sandwiches. In the old days when I cooked I would use them in recipes, but today I don't cook, so toss them.
                     
                     I use the bread slices for toast and buttered with other entrees, though are canned goods. For instance, a canned beef ravioli with a slice of buttered toast gets my carb count right and potassium is low.
                     
                     Stepping back a moment, I am not criticizing fresh bread, I was as shared using a personal lens, for today. In the old days, I use to bar-b-q a rib eye steak and halved length wise loaf of french bread buttered and seasoned with garlic and other spices from the market that was fresh. I would devour half of that half loaf. I can't do that today. My glucose level would go to the moon. ha-ha
                     
                     We have 'some' markets/grocery stores with bakeries within them. Most are located at more upscale suburbs. Some of our fast food places bake bread inhouse such as Submarina a sandwich shop that was founded here in San Diego County.
                     
                     Submarina
                     https://submarina.com/
                     
                     The grocery outlet I use, Albertsons, does have a bakery for cakes and such like cookies. Not bread. But, at Trader Joe's they do have an inhouse bakery baking bread. They are close to those upscale suburbs.However, it is on the other side of town. Albertsons is only a half mile from me. (0.8 km) I'm a lazy no good son-of-a-bitch these days ha-ha Unsure about other grocery store outlets.

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                        Nathanvilleposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

                        I love the crusts (the heels), the only one in my family who does; so as I don’t each much bread we do end up putting some of the crusts in our compost bin; although sometimes, I do use the surplus crusts to make ‘bread and butter’ pudding (a traditional British dish) - which the whole family does love.  ‘Baked beans’ on toast is of course another traditional British dish that we frequently have.
                        
                        Traditional British Bread and Butter Pudding: https://youtu.be/ejuUgEdfpk4
                        
                        When I make it we don’t use any cream, just 100% milk, and apart from a bit of sugar (half the quantity suggested in recipes) and all the raisins, I don’t bother with all the other fancy ingredients for flavouring – I find that just the stale bread, milk, eggs, sugar and raisins on their own makes it a very tasty desert – once baked in the oven. 
                        
                        My wife and I do love the fresh baked bread the best, especially the wholemeal bread; but it’s a lot more expensive than ordinary mass produced white bread, so we only have fresh baked bread as a treat.
                        
                        It’s good to hear that some of your grocery stores do have their own bakeries; albeit most predominately in the upscale suburbs.
                        
                        Your Submarina link sent me on web quest to try to understand exactly what a sub is, and what it’s called in Britain.  The research was easier said than done, in that although we do have the ‘subway’ fast food outlets in the UK, we don’t call the rolls, subs. 
                        
                        The nearest equivalent that is common in Britain are baguettes (a long, thin, crusty loaf of French bread, that is of similar size to subs, and had the same variety of fillings of the customer’s choice).  However, baguettes and subs are not the same:  Namely, a sub is a sandwich and a baguette is a loaf, and the bread used to make a sub is smoother and softer than the crisp baguette, and wider as well.
                        
                        Short video of an American giving a French recipe for baguette sandwich:  https://youtu.be/m2vItBeOY34

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                           tsmogposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

                           Great Video, Arthur!
                           
                           Yes, quite similar to our sub sandwiches. Butter is not common at fast food sandwich shops. Sub is short for submarine sandwich. However, that type of sandwich has many names here in the US.
                           
                           "In Pennsylvania they’ve got hoagies; in New York they’ve got heroes; in Louisiana, po’ boys; and pretty much everywhere else, subs. But in New England? Well, it turns out that we have a few special names for those long sandwiches. Are they grinders? Subs? Spuckies? Let’s review.
                           
                           Historically, New Englanders have called these sandwiches a number of different things: grinders, spukies, Italian sandwiches, subs… All of these terms are traditionally found in the New England lexicon. Today, despite the fact that “sub” dominates across the nation by a wide margin, our unique Yankee names still live on here in the northeast."
                           
                           [u]History: Grinders, Subs, and Spuckies | Sandwich Names of New England[u] by New England online magazine (Jul 1, 2022)
                           https://newengland.com/yankee/history/s … ich-names/
                           
                           I go to Submarina maybe once a month these days. Most of the time I get a sub made with Artesian Italian bread, 6" (15 cm), ham and turkey, double meat, lettuce, green peppers, onions, black olives, pepper jack cheese, and mustard & mayonnaise.

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                              Nathanvilleposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

                              Thanks for the link, quite fascinating that there is so much name variation for that type of bread rolls in America, especially in New England; whereas, our names for such bread rolls are fewer and more universal across the country.
                              
                              Being a vegetarian, I would have to stick to things like cheese, onion, tomatoes and salad etc. for a baguette; but also very popular across Britain are the hot food fillings in bread rolls, such as the Chip Butty or Bacon butty (or bacon sarnie).

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                                 tsmogposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

                                 Thanks for sharing!
                                 
                                 The most common hot fillings for the sub type roll is bar-b-q beef with bar-b-q sauce, pulled pork usually with bar-b-q sauce, meatballs with marina sauce, and pastrami with mustard and dill pickle.
                                 
                                 If you get brave and want to explore making your own bar-b-q sauce the video next shares three different versions.
                                 
                                 How To Make BBQ Sauce 3 Ways
                                 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEddBGAGPi0
                                 
                                 Bar-b-q sauce is very popular and somewhat of a staple. There are many manufacturers of it. One is Kraft where the link next shows there product line. Jack Daniels a whisky company also make its and is popular.
                                 
                                 https://www.kraftheinz.com/kraft-barbec … e/products

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                                    Nathanvilleposted 4 weeks agoin reply to this

                                    Fascinating - we can buy barbecue sauce in the supermarkets in the UK, so there is obviously a market for it; but I’ve never tired it, and of all the BBQ’s I’ve been to none of the hosts have ever had barbecue sauce amongst the condiments.  Although watching your video link, I like all the ingredients used in the recipes, it does sound yummy - so I’m confident that I would like.
                                    
                                    What you will always find at any BBQ in Britain is a large pot of fried onions.

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