Will Joe Biden Survive?

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  1. Live to Learn profile image79
    Live to Learnposted 16 months ago

    I'm not talking corona virus. I'm just curious how democrats think the DNC will extricate themselves from the debacle of shoving Biden into front runner status.

    Will they nominate Bernie or bring someone else in?  I know Biden says he's looking for a woman in case he can't serve. Will that be the ploy? Find a popular female, put her on the ticket and then he steps out of it?

    I just can't see Biden as viable after every stumble and his behavior now during the crisis, on top of these new sexual misconduct allegations.

    1. Randy Godwin profile image62
      Randy Godwinposted 16 months agoin reply to this

      Yet you support Trump despite his many accusations of sexual behavior. Pot.....kettle!

      1. Live to Learn profile image79
        Live to Learnposted 16 months agoin reply to this

        Do you have anything  intelligent to add or are you just passing through to lob inane accusations?

        1. peterstreep profile image81
          peterstreepposted 16 months agoin reply to this

          We are talking about the grab them by the pussy president, aren't we?

          1. Sharlee01 profile image83
            Sharlee01posted 16 months agoin reply to this

            I guess we are at this point talking about Biden. The questions asked
            "Will they nominate Bernie or bring someone else in?  I know Biden says he's looking for a woman in case he can't serve. Will that be the ploy? Find a popular female, put her on the ticket and then he steps out of it?"

            It is obvious the thread has once again turned into a "let's trash Trump fest".

            So, if we are diving in to compare sexual abuse, let's get to it.
            Reade said she was sent to take a gym bag to Biden when he allegedly sexually assaulted her.

            "We were alone, and it was the strangest thing. There was no, like, exchange really, he just had me up against the wall," Reade claimed.

            She then described in graphic detail what Biden allegedly proceeded to do next as he assaulted her. She said he was kissing her and asked her at one point if she wanted to "go somewhere else."
            "Tara Reade, who was at the time serving as an aide in Biden’s senate office, told podcast host Katie Halper that Biden kissed her and penetrated her with his fingers without her consent. Reade said she pushed Biden off of her and he allegedly became annoyed and said: “Come on, man! I heard you liked me.”

            “It was like everything shattered at that moment,” Reade told Halper in the interview, which was posted Wednesday. “He was, like, my father’s age. He was this champion of women’s rights in my eyes. I couldn’t believe it was happening.”

            Reade alleges that after she pulled away from Biden, he pointed in her face and said, “You’re nothing to me.”

            When it was over, she says Biden said to her, "C'mon man, I heard you liked me."

            So, I guess we could be talking about the presidential candidate that did not just boast about grabbing them in the Pu--y. But formally jammed his fingers into someone's pu----.

            Maybe we should turn our attention to just commenting on the questions that have been exposed?  Otherwise, it seems we are going into the weeds making comparisons of who is a worse pervert, Trump or Biden. As I have done above by providing an example.  It seems, in the end, all the comparing will do nothing but show the best of hypocrisy.

            1. peterstreep profile image81
              peterstreepposted 16 months agoin reply to this

              It is obvious the thread has once again turned into a "let's trash Trump fest".  - No Shalee, it's not.

              I was reacting upon - "I just can't see Biden as viable after every stumble and his behavior now during the crisis, on top of these new sexual misconduct allegations." -

              It's the simple fact that if you support a president who finds it ok to grab a woman without consent by the "pussy". And fornicates with a porn star when his wife is pregnant. Then you don't have the moral right to accuse a president front runner. Simple as that.
              I would have said the same thing when Bill Clinton was in the white house and George W. Bush was being accused while running for president.

              1. GA Anderson profile image93
                GA Andersonposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                ""I just can't see Biden as viable after every stumble and his behavior now during the crisis, on top of these new sexual misconduct allegations." -
                "


                I also went back to the OP, before I focused on your quote.

                I didn't read any moral indignation or criticism in the OP. Conversely, the OP even described the issue as allegations. I took the point of the thread to be whether Democrats would be okay with a candidate being portrayed as just like the evil orange man they detest.

                I think it is a fair question. The only "moral" aspect I have seen injected into the thread has been from the anti-Trump folks declaring others have no right to mention my mother's warts because their mother has warts too.

                So yes, this has turned into just one more Trump-bashing thread.

                GA

                1. peterstreep profile image81
                  peterstreepposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                  To be honest GA,
                  It surprises me how important the sex life of a president is in the US If you cheat on your wife it's a higher sin then not paying taxes when you have a trillion-dollar company. (Amazon comes to mind.)
                  I don't give a damn about the private life of my president. (The Spanish and Dutch one)
                  But I do give a damn about the abuse of power, That was clearly seen by Bill Clinton and Donald Trump. And I don't have much respect for both of them.
                  It always surprises me, and perhaps you have an answer. That a country like the US who has one of the biggest porn industries in the world is so obsessed with the sex lives of their celebrities.

                  1. profile image0
                    PrettyPantherposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                    Rape or any form of sexual assault, which both Biden and Trump have been accused of, is not a "sex life."

                    Marital infidelity is not a disqualifier in my book, but forcing oneself on a woman, or paying a woman to be silent....those automatically disqualify a candidate for me. Of course, without proof, one must evaluate for one's own self what is believable or not. Trump has admitted on tape to assaulting women and intentionally walking in on half-dressed underage girls so there is no question he is a sexual predator. I guess some people are fine with it, though.

                  2. GA Anderson profile image93
                    GA Andersonposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                    If I could answer your sex question Peterstreep, I would be too rich to have time for these forums.  ;-)

                    But I can give you my reason for viewing infidelity as the worst sin. I see it as the worst of betrayals of trust, of breaking a solemn commitment to someone that has given you their deepest trust.

                    Even admitting that I understand that it is only human to be weak—as in failing to live up to your best, I find infidelity to be unforgivable in almost every instance.

                    That is why the sexual exploits of a married president make a difference to me. If they can't be trusted to honor that commitment, I don't see how they can be trusted to honor any commitment.

                    Now, about that porn thing . . .

                    GA

                2. Sharlee01 profile image83
                  Sharlee01posted 16 months agoin reply to this

                  GA, The questions posed on this thread were very direct, not sure why some did not take the opportunity to address the questions. I had hoped some would share their thoughts on Joe choosing a female VP or an opinion on will the DNC go with Bernie. Maybe even bring up what a brokered convention would men to them. I guess all too boring.

                  The questions --- "Will they nominate Bernie or bring someone else in?  I know Biden says he's looking for a woman in case he can't serve. Will that be the ploy? Find a popular female, put her on the ticket and then he steps out of it?"

                  It just seems those that dislike Trump can't help themselves from bringing him into every conversation. It also appears many of the same people lack the ability to even speak positively about the two Democratic candidates in the running. It may be they are spending more time getting to know everything Trump, and not really knowing much about their own prospective candidates.

                  This thread was a good one for Dems to share their thoughts on the upcoming election. It looks like Biden will be their guy, so why not discuss him? I mean I think many of us would agree, Trump has been well trashed. In fact most of the time it's the same old broken record repeating all the same "stuff".

                  1. GA Anderson profile image93
                    GA Andersonposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                    As things stand now—in the Democrat primary results, I can't imagine any way the Democrats can ditch Biden. Nor do I think they should.

                    But, I do think his VP choice has become very important. I think Biden is going to get beat up in the General election campaign, and the backstop of a good VP choice may be the only thing that saves him.

                    To be clear, I am not giving any credence to the sexual allegations. I don't know what to believe—either way, but I do see those charges as clubs that will hammer away at him. I like Joe Biden. I don't agree with these 'personal space' and 'hair sniffing' charges.

                    It may have been 30 years ago, but I do have a personal opinion of the man, and to see him continue to move forward after losing a wife and kid in an accident was a plus for me—relative to personal character.

                    I can imagine that when you lose a young child, every young child is viewed as that much more precious, re. those hair sniffing charges. I think they are bogus.

                    My participation in this thread was only relative to the point of Democrats claiming Republicans were hypocrites if they even asked how the Democrats would consider a candidate charged with all the worse traits of the man they despise. There was no moral equivalency component in my comments.

                    GA

              2. Live to Learn profile image79
                Live to Learnposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                Lol. So you are willing to support someone who can very easily be compared to someone you can't stand, on the point you choose to focus on. You lost credibility on this one.

              3. Sharlee01 profile image83
                Sharlee01posted 16 months agoin reply to this

                Your comment--

                "PETERSTREEP WROTE:
                We are talking about the grab them by the pussy president, aren't we?"

                I would think your statement is a direct insult toward the president. Perhaps you don't feel your statement added to the Trump-bashing fest. I do.   Need I read all of your comments and offer more fodder?

                1. profile image0
                  PrettyPantherposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                  How is merely repeating what Trump bragged about bashing him? Trump bragged about grabbing women by the pussy. He is proud of it! Please explain how merely stating a fact about Trump, which he himself is so proud of, is "bashing." ?

                  1. Randy Godwin profile image62
                    Randy Godwinposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                    I couldn't have put it better, Sandy. But then....he may have changed since then.   BWAHAHA!  lol Jest pullin' yore leg!

              4. Sharlee01 profile image83
                Sharlee01posted 16 months agoin reply to this

                "PETERSTREEP WROTE:
                We are talking about the grab them by the pussy president, aren't we?"

                It is obvious the thread has once again turned into a "let's trash Trump fest".  - No Shalee, it's not.

                Yes, Peter does quickly turn to a Bash Trump fest. As your very statement indicates. I note you are not willing to address the questions PTP posted. Perhaps you should address the questions as I have done. This thread is about "Will Joe Biden Survive".  Here are the questions. As you will see these questions do not include anything to do with Trump.

                "Will they nominate Bernie or bring someone else in?  I know Biden says he's looking for a woman in case he can't serve. Will that be the ploy? Find a popular female, put her on the ticket and then
                he steps out of it?"

                Your comment ---"I was reacting upon - "I just can't see Biden as viable after every stumble and his behavior now during the crisis, on top of these new sexual misconduct allegations." This comment has nothing to do with Trump.

                "It's the simple fact that if you support a president who finds it ok to grab a woman without consent by the "pussy". And fornicates with a porn star when his wife is pregnant. Then you don't have the moral right to accuse a president front runner. Simple as that."

                After reading this part of your comment, I must assume you would not support Biden or find anyone moral that would support such a man. I note you have nothing to say about Joe's forcible rape charge.

                I will add, I find you have a lot of nerve to feel you have the right to tell anyone what moral rights they have.

                1. peterstreep profile image81
                  peterstreepposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                  What I wanted to point out is that it would be hypocritical if you accuse Biden of sexual misbehavior and support president Trump.
                  That's the core of it.
                  It could well be that Biden misused his power position to sexually assault women. And you should take a woman seriously when she is accusing a higher positioned men. It shows that the #metoo movement was necessary as people like Weinstein, Epstein, Brett Kavanaugh and many more should not get away that easily.
                  Sadly enough, sexual assault does not impact much the career of men.. Trump was voted in, Biden became vice president,  Weinstein got away with it for a long time, etc.

                  As for Biden, I would not vote for him. As to me, he is too conservative and more of the same and doesn't show much backbone. I would vote for Sanders as we definitely need a different approach towards capitalism. As capitalism became too much monopolism for companies like Amazon, Uber, Facebook, Apple, etc.
                  The great thing about capitalism was that you had a choice. But as the companies become too big, choices are reduced. And capitalism, in the end, becomes just as dangerous as pure communism. - but this is a whole debate.
                  Biden doesn't have the backbone to tackle this difficult issue. He will be "bought" by Amazon and the like, just like Trump is "bought" by them. I don't see much difference between the two. Biden only is better in sweet talk.

                  As for the nerve to tell anyone what moral rights... Yes I do. As it is simply highly hypocritical to talk about the sexual assault of Biden if Trump has a record too.
                  I'm not addressing Trump's politics, that's a different thing altogether.

        2. Randy Godwin profile image62
          Randy Godwinposted 16 months agoin reply to this

          I usually respond to inanity with inanity. Nothing new there!

    2. profile image0
      PrettyPantherposted 16 months agoin reply to this

      That a Trump supporter would even say this....

      [Reminds self that Trump fans abandoned minimum standards of conduct for Trump long ago but still demand it of others]

      Oh, never mind.

      1. Readmikenow profile image98
        Readmikenowposted 16 months agoin reply to this

        The party of Bill and Hillary Clinton has NO moral high ground on any level.

    3. Eastward profile image90
      Eastwardposted 16 months agoin reply to this

      As much as I'd personally like to see them nominate Bernie, as of right now, I don't think it will happen. They've set the full force of the Establishment, donors, media, and the rest of the machine against him. I see a lot of speculation and neoliberal calls for the Dems to jump to Cuomo, though he says he won't run. Just saw an article calling for Obama to get more involved in the selection of a nominee as well.

      1. Credence2 profile image81
        Credence2posted 16 months agoin reply to this

        Eastward, we have to ask the questions regarding what is so wrong and where the real loyalties lie for a "system" that will pull together to deep six any man that dare to challenge it? In the face of all this, the political parties are just alternate labels with the same "stuff" in the box. Are we all just being played for fools here with the nominee predetermined, with the process there to just placate the masses with the idea that they really had a choice?

        1. Eastward profile image90
          Eastwardposted 16 months agoin reply to this

          Credence, I totally agree. As was previously determined by the courts, the Democrats are basically a brand and have no legal obligation to fairly select a nominee. They can select the nominee in a cigar-smoke filled backroom if they please:
          https://osociety.org/2019/08/15/court-r … y-wish-to/

          And the fact they are pushing such a weak candidate in order to stop Bernie and protect their own latitude to engage in political corruption is very disturbing and indicative that we are dealing with the same contents of the box with different labels. It certainly seems the DNC is willing to risk a loss to Trump, being more comfortable with that outcome than a Sanders Presidency. Bernie is like the parent coming down the hall about to catch the kids with their hands in the cookie jar before dinner.

          I did hold out hope that they would learn an important lesson from the 2016 and the negative exposure about rigging the primary would cause them to be more straightforward. I do feel a bit foolish about that, but who wants to believe the rulers of our country are that childish and petty? It's a hard and embarrassing pill to swallow, but the rest of the world has been watching our political circus in horror. It's no longer a dirty American secret. I'll admit, at first, I underestimated how little the Democrats cared about winning the election.

          It seems it will take a miracle for Bernie to become the nominee, or really, any candidate with integrity at this point. If not, we are left with the gut-wrenching choice of two alleged rapists who shamelessly cater to the 1% against the best interests of the people (or putting support behind a third party, writing in a candidate in places where it's even allowed, or abstaining altogether in protest). I'm really not sure if it's more advantageous to have a neoliberal in office now, or to deal with 4 more years of Trump and regroup for 2024.

          As we move to the nomination, we should also consider that among Democrats and Democratic-leaning independents who prefer Bernie Sanders for the nomination, 15% say they’d back Pres. Trump over Joe Biden in the fall:

          https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/biden-c … itter_abcn

          1. Credence2 profile image81
            Credence2posted 16 months agoin reply to this

            In response to your last paragraph.


            I guess what i have a hard time comprehending is how can anyone who support Sanders consider Trump as an acceptable substitute, especially after Trump has been in office for over 3 years and the guy that was supposed to shake Washington up is anything but......

            How can Bernie people and Trump people have anything in coming?

            1. Eastward profile image90
              Eastwardposted 16 months agoin reply to this

              It is a curiosity and a sign of the times, Credence. I would be interested to see this as a mixed methods study, with qualitative interviews of the independents referenced in addition to the qualitative data. What does supporting Trump really mean to these independents? Does it mean they prefer Trump's policies? I doubt it. Are they thinking strategically that 4 years of Trump is a lesser evil than 4-8 years of neoliberal rule and whatever that prompts afterwards? I think it's more likely. I was actually surprised to see the overwhelmingly positive response that Bernie got during his Fox appearances. The most defining point that I think Bernie and Trump people agree on is disgust for The Establishment. I'd hope that given the chance, people would choose Bernie over Trump and he'd have the chance to "shake Washington up" in a way that better serves the average citizen.

            2. Live to Learn profile image79
              Live to Learnposted 16 months agoin reply to this

              You'd be surprised at how much they have in common.

              You've bought into the media lock step lie about any who voted for Trump.

              If you don't trust me, go back and listen to Yang on the topic. We are sick of business as usual in Washington. Bernie is a populist candidate, just like Trump was, is.

              So, those of us sick of Washington are very open to other ideas. If Bernie could give a clear cut and believable way to pay for a lot of his ideas I'd be willing to listen.

              1. Credence2 profile image81
                Credence2posted 16 months agoin reply to this

                L to L, the only thing they must have in common is a common distaste for the "political establishment" period, both parties. And you did say that.

                But beyond that the question remains would you trade that in for an authoritarian/fascist type or a "socialist". I suppose that is where the rubber meets the road for me.

                If Trump stopped talking about cuts to Social Security and Medicare, while enriching the corporate oligarchy at my expense, I would not have anywhere near the problems with the Right that I currently do.

                I will look more closely at Yang's positions and comment, later.

        2. GA Anderson profile image93
          GA Andersonposted 16 months agoin reply to this

          "Are we all just being played for fools here with the nominee predetermined, with the process there to just placate the masses with the idea that they really had a choice?"

          Yes. Now, do you think the Dark Side' of the Force is just the Republicans?

          GA

          1. Credence2 profile image81
            Credence2posted 16 months agoin reply to this

            Republicans are the villains because they are more resistant to any change to the status quo and Trump certainly is not the "right stuff"

            The outcome of selection of candidates from the Democrats make me see all this as less of a hypothesis and more of a theorem.

            1. GA Anderson profile image93
              GA Andersonposted 16 months agoin reply to this

              Can you state that "theorem" Cred? I am not sure what your comment means.

              GA

              1. Credence2 profile image81
                Credence2posted 16 months agoin reply to this

                Sorry to befuddle.

                Republicans= support of the status quo, hegemony of the oligarchy.

                While the two parties are guilty of much of the same practices, only one party has a platform and candidates who recognize and are serious about correcting them.

                1. GA Anderson profile image93
                  GA Andersonposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                  Okay, I see what you meant. However, I am not as confident that your "one party" and its candidate are serious about making the changes you think they will.

                  If that were true Biden wouldn't have been able to run away with the primaries.

                  GA

                  1. Credence2 profile image81
                    Credence2posted 16 months agoin reply to this

                    On the contrary both Sanders and Warren were committed. But the rank and file is now, deevolving into some form squishy Republicanism.

                    But we were ambushed by an intimidating establishment which is part and parcel of the paragraph that you quoted me on earlier. A situation that involves all Republican and a dissapointingly large segment of Democrats.

                    Your point is well taken, obviously the conservative democrat rules the day in all but a handful of states. That is why we end up with Biden, thus far.

                    We do have the right candidates, just not the nerve to boldly make the changes necessary and that if anything is why Trump may well win again.

            2. Sharlee01 profile image83
              Sharlee01posted 16 months agoin reply to this

              "Republicans are the villains because they are more resistant to any change to the status quo and Trump certainly is not the "right stuff"

              Not sure why you feel Rep are adverse to change. We Rep took a chance on a man that was not a politician, his agenda was to tear down the status quo,  give a form of transparency to the likes we have never seen. Not sure if you realize Trump has pretty much shocked the world with CHANGE. 

              Hillary had no agenda but an old tired worn out one the Dems have always dished up. Once again the Dems seem so far to be pushing a politician that has no agenda, nothing but pretty --- "I will be doing this".

              You could not have used a worse word to describe the mindset of today's Rep.  We wanted change, we got it, and we will continue to fight for change.  Our change is to go forward, not stay in the status quo or actually go backward. Trump, has brought change, and it's too bad many don't realize that. Although they are apt to benefit from it.

              1. Credence2 profile image81
                Credence2posted 16 months agoin reply to this

                Their change is from my perspective in the wrong direction, that's the difference.

                Threatening the viability of social programs, putting the well being of corporations and wealthy oligarchs over the people, supporting profligate military spending, having a "starve the beast" attitude regarding government. I am a liberal and a progressive and I don't think that what Trump and his captive GOP have become is positive change. Bernie Sanders and his platform is more my style of populism and "positive" change.

                Trump, when the day is done, IS a Republican and Rightwinger in every sense, and I am always compelled to vote against that and everything that that stands for, in my opinion.

                1. Sharlee01 profile image83
                  Sharlee01posted 16 months agoin reply to this

                  The wrong direction. That's your opinion. Half the country disagrees. Social programs, I am for some and against many.  I feel it necessary to have a good military. You call yourself progressive. It's not progressive to have government-run one's life. I like making my own decisions. Bernies offers nothing but 'I will take care of you". I prefer to take care of myself.

                  As you can see we think differently. My opinion is just as important as yours. And I applaud your right to vote. I have a vote too... In the end, the people will choose the path. Not me, not you, but us.

      2. Live to Learn profile image79
        Live to Learnposted 16 months agoin reply to this

        Obama appears too far right for the new left. Do you think Obama could help any candidate bring the Bernie supporters into the fold? I'm not so certain.

        1. Eastward profile image90
          Eastwardposted 16 months agoin reply to this

          He might help with a very small percentage (if anything). It seems mostly like Establishment Democrats thinking around the real issues rather than trying to actually address them to me.

    4. Sharlee01 profile image83
      Sharlee01posted 16 months agoin reply to this

      My curiosity has also peaked to as what will be the DNC's next move will be. in light of Ms. Tara Reede's story resurfacing.

      In my opinion, they may have cornered themselves and may have to either heed the voice of the people and go with Bernie. However, they could broker in someone they feel they could win with such as Cuomo. Cuomo has been getting positive recognition for his handling of the Covid19 virus. In my opinion, Cuomo is doing a good job and deserves the positive recognition he is receiving. 

      Would Biden be more plausible if he brought on a woman running mate?  Just my opinion, no at this point I don't think it would help. I think Biden is carrying too much baggage at this point.  Plus, his agenda is weak.

      1. Randy Godwin profile image62
        Randy Godwinposted 16 months agoin reply to this

        It continues to be entertaining to hear the Right attack Biden for what Trump is known for and they elected him anyway. You simply can't make this kinda $#it up. lol lol lol

        1. Live to Learn profile image79
          Live to Learnposted 16 months agoin reply to this

          Randy I realize you have a one track comment capability but not everything is about Trump to everybody.

          It's really sad to watch such as what you insist on posting.

          1. Randy Godwin profile image62
            Randy Godwinposted 16 months agoin reply to this

            And it's not sad  what you post, LTL? Opinions are free to give.....for both sides,whether you like it or not.

            1. Live to Learn profile image79
              Live to Learnposted 16 months agoin reply to this

              But your opinions really just revolve around one narrow subject. We know. Orange man bad. I would simply like to see you share other things. But, your posts display a single minded adherence to one narrow theme.

              There is more to discuss than the bad orange man.

        2. Sharlee01 profile image83
          Sharlee01posted 16 months agoin reply to this

          I in no way "attacked" Biden in answering LTL questions.  I did not list negative baggage or insult his character. Not sure why you feel i made up anything? Could you give an example of what you feel I made up?

          Why attack me without cause?  I simply answered a few political questions. Gave an opinion. Trump had nothing to do with LTL's questions. Yet you enter him into this discussion.

      2. Live to Learn profile image79
        Live to Learnposted 16 months agoin reply to this

        I think, in this crisis, if it continues to degrade, they'll change their tune about Bernie. I see him as becoming the nominee.

        1. Sharlee01 profile image83
          Sharlee01posted 16 months agoin reply to this

          If we look at history, Bernie would be next in line, and many people support him. As they did in 2016. However, that just did not matter then, and may not this time around either. It will be interesting to see what the DNC does.

          1. Credence2 profile image81
            Credence2posted 16 months agoin reply to this

            Gosh, Sharlee, he is too old. I really doubt that he could be viable in 2024. He needs to groom and hand the mantle over to a younger protégée.

            1. Sharlee01 profile image83
              Sharlee01posted 16 months agoin reply to this

              Let me clarify. I was referring to the 2020 election in case the DNC decides not to go with Biden. I am thinking of a "what if" scenario if they go with next in line if Joe drops out or is brokered out. Will they go with Bernie? he is the next in line and has a huge following. Sorry for the confusion.

    5. Stevennix2001 profile image87
      Stevennix2001posted 16 months agoin reply to this

      The Democratic Party does NOT want Bernie Sanders to win the nomination; let alone the presidency because he's too much of a non establishment candidate, even more so than Trump claims he is. 

      They made that perfectly clear in my opinion during the last presidential election in 2016, so I doubt seriously the nomination would go to Bernie, even though it should.  Most likely it'll be Elizabeth Warren, or they'll make up some excuse to give Hilary Clinton another shot at the presidency if Biden has to bow out.  The point is it won't be Bernie Sanders.

      1. Live to Learn profile image79
        Live to Learnposted 16 months agoin reply to this

        I agree that Bernie is a non establishment candidate in many respects. You say more so than Trump, yet Bernie has been in politics his entire life, so in some respectshe isn't non establishment. Which is why I respect and fear him simultaneously.

        I think the thing that bothers me about a more socialistic approach is we have no internal models where a socialistic approach has worked well in our society. If there was one city, one community, one state or one anything we could point to in order to say 'See, it is economically sustainable. It doesn't increase homelessness or crime, it doesn't create an unreasonable tax burden. People are healthy, happy, thriving and enjoying full freedoms.'

        With one example I could breath a little easier with the idea of a Bernie presidency.

        But that's just me. I think the DNC could care less about the people. Power, with no real vision, is their goal so Bernie doesn't for the model.

  2. Live to Learn profile image79
    Live to Learnposted 16 months ago

    So, you guys are good with Biden as your nominee. Gotcha.

    Maybe one day the democrats will put up a nominee an independent can vote for. Sadly, we have not reached that day.

    1. profile image0
      PrettyPantherposted 16 months agoin reply to this

      How many times do I have to say I won't vote for Biden?

      You voted for Trump, though, so we know where your standards lie, don't we? You have no business worrying about who might vote for Biden, unless you're just being another partisan hypocrite.

      1. Live to Learn profile image79
        Live to Learnposted 16 months agoin reply to this

        I guess I shouldn't be surprised that a simple question would elicit nastiness, for no reason.

        Par for the course.

        1. profile image0
          PrettyPantherposted 16 months agoin reply to this

          Worried about nastiness? Get rid of Trump, a man who would punish states during a pandemic just because someone didn't properly stroke his fragile ego.

          He is disgusting.

          1. Live to Learn profile image79
            Live to Learnposted 16 months agoin reply to this

            This is really funny. I'm just asking questions that have nothing to do with Trump. You are being driven by Trump. Always, every time you respond to anything I say.

            Ever hear of Pavlov's experiments? We may be in one.

            1. profile image0
              PrettyPantherposted 16 months agoin reply to this

              Well, you know, the guy is president and screwing up a crisis response and you're worried about Joe. My questions about your motives are legit. I notice you avoid addressing them.

              1. Live to Learn profile image79
                Live to Learnposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                My motives? None really. I think Bernie was the better choice. Because people voted for him because of his ideas. Not just because they wanted power, whatever the cost.


                And now you've wasted your money.

                1. profile image0
                  PrettyPantherposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                  I think if the crisis had hit sooner, Bernie would be the nominee. It still isn't decided yet, though.

                  1. Live to Learn profile image79
                    Live to Learnposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                    Had the crisis hit sooner Bernie would have been the nominee. Something we agree on.

                    That won't last long, if you have anything to do with it.

                2. Credence2 profile image81
                  Credence2posted 16 months agoin reply to this

                  And, yes, Bernie was the better choice, all this talk about "socialism" was just so much "rot" from the other side.

                  While most complain about the state of things, few are actually willing to step out and be counted with a man that had specific policy solutions. That is most unfortunate, who wants the current alternative to Trump to be just "warmed over Republicanism"? That is not exciting in the least.

                  1. Live to Learn profile image79
                    Live to Learnposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                    I'm leery of Bernie but I'd have taken a hard look at Yang.

                    I think both parties are out of step with what we want and need.

                  2. liladybugz26 profile image90
                    liladybugz26posted 16 months agoin reply to this

                    Ditto, ditto and ditto Credence.

                    I am proud to be on team Bernie, and feel like I've been personally punched in the gut by the purposeful railroading of the scared Democratic Party Biden bandwagon.

                    Also disheartening are the false socialist comments made by both parties. I mean come on, just because Bernie said he supports education for all doesn't mean he supports or approves of Castro and his brutal regime.

                    If it comes down to the likliness of Biden as the democratic candidate, I will have no choice but to vote for him, however unfortunate.

                    Not me. Us.

    2. Credence2 profile image81
      Credence2posted 16 months agoin reply to this

      I have no choice but to vote for Biden because I will not contribute to allowing Trump a second term, and that is job #1.

      1. Live to Learn profile image79
        Live to Learnposted 16 months agoin reply to this

        I appreciate that credence. I felt that way about Hillary, as you know.

        But, at this juncture I see Biden as dead in the water. Do you think the DNC can do anything about that or are you stuck with what you've got?

        1. Credence2 profile image81
          Credence2posted 16 months agoin reply to this

          Well, L to L, I was appalled at how much support Biden got in the primaries and caucuses. The way he stumbled through in the beginning, it was completely unexpected.

          The Democratic Party is not what I have expected and I think that there is skullduggery a foot as to the Biden sweep in the face of so many better candidates.

          But it is what it is, and like you I am resigned to the lesser of two evils.

          1. Live to Learn profile image79
            Live to Learnposted 16 months agoin reply to this

            I hope this crisis will cause the DNC to step back and regroup.

            I'm not a fan of how the democrats allow the powers that be choose their candidates and sweep away any they see as a danger to their stranglehold on power within the party, but I'd like to see a reasonable alternative presented to the American people. However it's done in your party.

            Someone you don't have to swallow the bile down to support.

            1. Randy Godwin profile image62
              Randy Godwinposted 16 months agoin reply to this

              How many gallons of bile did you have to swallow to vote for Trump? Your answer may give a bit of perspective to your views.

              1. Live to Learn profile image79
                Live to Learnposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                Get a life Randy.

                1. Randy Godwin profile image62
                  Randy Godwinposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                  Got a good life, LTL. What's your problem? As has already been pointed out, you voted for a sexual predator, but you wonder why someone else would. Why did you?

                  1. Live to Learn profile image79
                    Live to Learnposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                    Well, the alternative was a person who lied for and protected a sexual predator by attacking the victims. The alternative was a candidate who repeatedly lied to the American people, used the position she had within the government to enrich herself and her family, a person who used connections to avoid hard and pertinent questions about her conduct and a person who had some so long before the White House, going all of the way back to Arkansas.

                    You supported the same type (and worse in many ways) as what you complain about. Now you are defending another.

                    Who's the biggest hypocrite? I say you.

              2. Sharlee01 profile image83
                Sharlee01posted 16 months agoin reply to this

                Randy. how about just discussing the subject. This should give you the chance to share your opinion on your own party, and how you think they should proceed, in regards to the 2020 election. I can go on all day why I will be voting for my candidate. Perhaps you could share, and tell us what you feel about your candidate or even who you think that should be.

                1. Randy Godwin profile image62
                  Randy Godwinposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                  Shar, did you not see the post I responded to from, LTL? She brought up swallowing bile in reference to people voting for Biden.

                  Then she became indignant when I asked her that question. Some can dish it out, but........

                  1. Sharlee01 profile image83
                    Sharlee01posted 16 months agoin reply to this

                    I saw it. I just hoped you would take the high ground, and share your feelings on what you feel the DNC should be doing at this point. I do realize they are backing Biden at this point. What are your feelings on that? Should they do differently or stand their ground with Biden.

                    I see your point, lots of hot feelings beginning to surface. maybe because we are all trapped in our homes, and really feeling vulnerable.

                2. profile image0
                  PrettyPantherposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                  You people act as if Democrat voters have not voted for Biden. He is the frontrunner as of now. If he wins enough delegates he will be the nominee. Are you suggesting that the DNC overrule the people?

                  I, for one, wanted Elizabeth Warren but more people went for Biden and Bernie. It's still not ver. I haven't looked at the numbers to see  if there could be a brokered convention, but that is the only way it will be anyone but Bden, to my knowledge, but I haven't really studied it lately.

                  All that said, this country has had a self-confessed sexual predator as a president for over three years now, so I really am at a loss as to why any Trump fan would consider that a disqualifier for Biden.

                  1. Sharlee01 profile image83
                    Sharlee01posted 16 months agoin reply to this

                    I did not ever express that I would disqualify Biden do to his past. He is innocent until proven guilty. Perhaps my comments have not been clear. I have tried to project to some(not you) that can look the other way and in regard to Biden's ALLEDGED sexual abuse, yet bring up Trump's ALLEDGED sexual abuses. It did seem hypocritical.

                    I did put forth the possibility of a brokered convention. The DNC could do this if they feel Biden could not win due to scandal or other reasons. I was just answering the questions posed on this thread. Giving a what if opinion. The questions promoted opinion-oriented answers. After all none of us know the future.

                    This thread seemed to be asking "what if's'. And to me provided a nice forum for Dems to converse over the front runner, Biden.  I think it would have provided some insight into what Dems are thinking about not only Biden but a Brokered candidate. I made a point that I felt Cuomo might be a great candidate for the Dems. As a Trump supporter, I will say, he could give Trump a real fight.

                  2. GA Anderson profile image93
                    GA Andersonposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                    Maybe the point of this Biden thread is that one group of people have made such an issue of how terrible Trump is because of these sexual charges, and so vehemently declare that such a man is not qualified to hold the office.

                    . . . and now they use the logic of  whataboutism' to criticize anyone that thinks it even matters when the target of the discussion is their candidate.

                    Of course, that is just my thought, but it is how the thread seems to have progressed so far—to me.

                    GA

  3. liladybugz26 profile image90
    liladybugz26posted 16 months ago

    I'm a progressive Democrat that came to this thread hoping to read opinions from both sides of the aisle on this topic; but instead, the comments have been overwhelmed by finger pointing and criticism. Thanks to ignorance, this entire thread can pretty much be summed up as moot.

    Each and every person has from a unique background and set of circumstances that builds the foundation of their belief system, including political. This is just one of the many reasons political insults and bullying do nothing but reinforce the receiving party's political position, and prevents any hope of constructive bipartisan communication and understanding.

    1. Credence2 profile image81
      Credence2posted 16 months agoin reply to this

      I think that you should stay, there have been many substantive comments that address the question put to us in the thread.

      1. liladybugz26 profile image90
        liladybugz26posted 16 months agoin reply to this

        I scrolled to the bottom of the thread and found the posts you were referring to. Thank you for alerting me to them. I will be sure to stick around.

  4. Valeant profile image88
    Valeantposted 16 months ago

    And this idea that the Democratic nominee needs to be some holier-than-thou, perfect candidate in the eyes of the right is laughable when they support someone as ridiculous as Donald J. Trump. 

    Whoever is nominated is better than a dishonest narcissist who is using the government to personally benefit while breaking multiple laws and governing for the benefit of less than half the country while throwing out childish nicknames at half of the rest.

    1. wilderness profile image96
      wildernessposted 16 months agoin reply to this

      Really?  Even if your name calling and fibs were true, he would still be a better choice than Clinton.  Or Bernie or Biden for that matter.

      1. Valeant profile image88
        Valeantposted 16 months agoin reply to this

        You're so in denial, you are laughable, old man.  Your posts are just humor to me at this point because you have no concept of reality.

      2. profile image0
        PrettyPantherposted 16 months agoin reply to this

        In your opinion. Or, are you stating a fact?

        1. wilderness profile image96
          wildernessposted 16 months agoin reply to this

          You really can't detect an opinion in making a choice between candidates?  Really?

          1. profile image0
            PrettyPantherposted 16 months agoin reply to this

            Actually, yes, but in light of a recent conversation with GA, I am attempting to be clear and ascertain clarity. Apparently, one must clearly identify one's opinions lest they be assumed to be statements of fact.

            1. GA Anderson profile image93
              GA Andersonposted 16 months agoin reply to this

              Now, now, PrettyPanther. Be nice. Do you really need to be shown the comments where an opinion was stated to be fact? Not inferred as fact, not worded as fact, (as in, left out the "I think" part), but actually called fact?

              Surely you aren't saying such comments haven't appeared here in these forums?

              GA

              1. profile image0
                PrettyPantherposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                I am saying that it doesn't matter if an opinion is stated as though it is a a fact. It is still an opinion and most people can discern the difference. How many times has a statement been met with "That's your opinion" or "I beg to differ." Both indicate a statement  was viewed as an opinion, even if it wasn't overtly identified as such.

                When LtL says Hillary would have been a far worse president than Trump, and fails to preface it with "I think"she is stating it as though it is a fact. But I believe we all recognize it as an opinion.

                Anyway, this is all just my opinion. I can't really prove it, I suppose.

                1. GA Anderson profile image93
                  GA Andersonposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                  . . . and with this, I agree. So much so that I won't even mention, again, those 'other'  instances.

                  GA

                  1. profile image0
                    PrettyPantherposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                    We'll, I do think you have made a worthy point, inasmuch as it is at least a reminder that  a strong opinion might be better received if it is prefaced with "I think."

                    I will try to remember that, but you know me....lol

                  2. profile image0
                    PrettyPantherposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                    Are you referring to claims of Trump's mental illness? If so, let me say this (I won't let you go that easily).

                    Any diagnosis of mental illness is, by definition, an opinion. Yes, there are tests for some of them but certain mental illnesses are actually more accurately diagnosed with observations of the subject's behavior in the real world. Clinicians often use reports of the subject's behavior from family members to help them narrow a diagnosis. Merely relying on self-reporting is a recipe for failure, especially with certain types of  disorders involving feelings of grandeur, like NPD. Diagnosing mental illness is not as definitive as a blood test or throat culture.

                    So, if a multitude of licensed mental heal professionals all agree that Trump has NPD, I tend to believe their opinions are accurate, especially  given the mounds of data available spanning the course of many years.

                    In fact, I will go so far to say that dismissing their conclusions outright, calling them "quacks" is irrational and way more dangerous than accepting them.

                    Just my learned opinion, of course. I have a degree in psychology, a brother with NPD, an ex with paranoid schizophrenia, and a mother who passed from Alzheimer's. I was the one who first noticed my mother's symptoms. I knew ny brother had NPD years before it was confirmed by a licensed medical professional, and I was the one who realized my ex was experiencing auditory hallucinations .

                    So, I don't know if this helps explain my confidence that Trump is mentally ill, but like you say, some of us have very strong opinions, and legitimate reasons for them.

                2. Live to Learn profile image79
                  Live to Learnposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                  Something else we agree on.

                  Spooky.

      3. Randy Godwin profile image62
        Randy Godwinposted 16 months agoin reply to this

        "fibs"?  lol Are you afraid of being banned for bickering, Dan? I haven't heard lies called fibs since grammar school.

        Matt, I hope you're watching. Dan accused someone of fibbing! Nah nah nah nah nah nah! tongue

        1. Valeant profile image88
          Valeantposted 16 months agoin reply to this

          The guy who still thinks Trump has committed no crimes, despite all the proof that's out there, openly calling me a liar.  I bet he'd buy his daughter a drink with Bill Cosby bartending.

          1. wilderness profile image96
            wildernessposted 16 months agoin reply to this

            *shrug*  He's been accused of a whole raft of crimes, from collaborating with Putin to throw the election to blackmailing the Ukraine for the same reason to sex crimes.  And has yet to be convicted of a single one.  Did you lie (if you prefer that term) or were you just giving your unsupported opinion again, presenting it as factual?

            1. Valeant profile image88
              Valeantposted 16 months agoin reply to this

              Did I say he was convicted, or are you just twisting words to try and make yourself believe something since you know a sitting president cannot be charged under DOJ guidelines?  I know it's the latter.  I could lay out the supporting evidence of his crimes, but brainwashed sheep like you wouldn't believe it any way.

              Speaking of which, why do you engage me?  We are never going to see eye to eye on any issue.  Do you like insulting people and being insulted back?  Is that why you come here?

              1. wilderness profile image96
                wildernessposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                You claimed he was guilty, but without providing any court records indicating guilt.

                This, then, is either opinion only (whether you think there is evidence or not) or a lie.  Which was it?

                I guess I like taking people to task for making statements they cannot support.  And for presenting opinions as true fact.  And, sometimes, for faulty reasoning.

                On the other hand, you also said I think he's committed no crimes, again without any evidence of the sort (personally, I believe he has at a minimum skirted the line very closely and more likely than not has committed some crimes).  Again, your statement was simply false and based on nothing but a desire to offend.

                1. Valeant profile image88
                  Valeantposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                  I did not claim he was guilty.  If you're going to insist on something, at least be accurate.  I claimed he broke laws.  Laws which he cannot be put on trial for while he is president, but where ample evidence exists. 

                  Again, you twisting words that I never used to try and make a case for something you clearly believe, despite ample evidence to the contrary.  You can lie to yourself all you want, but don't come on here and accuse me of being a liar and expect me not to call you on that bullshit, Dan.

                  So, you just felt like insulting me by calling me a liar, even though you believe he has broken laws?  So you did just want to come on here and be insulting.  Got it.  Do us both a favor and avoid me.  I have no patience for you.

                  1. wilderness profile image96
                    wildernessposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                    If he broke laws then he is guilty of a crime.  Whether it was speeding 2 miles over the limit or colluding with Putin to fix the election he is guilty of a crime if he broke the law.  That's pretty straightforward.

                    But you cannot prove he broke any laws, just make the claim and provide evidence (without rebuttal) that makes you think he is guilty.  A court (the final judgement) has not made a decision.

                    So you then presented an opinion as fact, which is what I said.

                2. Sharlee01 profile image83
                  Sharlee01posted 16 months agoin reply to this

                  Dan, Have you not noted that Val can take a word, as the word fib, and turn it into "he called me a Liar"...   Why reply to someone that is obviously argumentive in every respect.  Just look back on this thread and have a look at how he closes out his comments. The comments always end with personal insults. Why give him oxygen?

                  1. profile image0
                    PrettyPantherposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                    A fib is a lie. Just saying.

                  2. Valeant profile image88
                    Valeantposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                    When you call me a liar, prepare to get insulted.  I'm sorry that you cannot comprehend that fib is another word for a lie.

    2. profile image0
      PrettyPantherposted 16 months agoin reply to this

      Id like to nominate my dog. He's confident, courageous and loyal and he hasn't met a human (or cat) he doesn't love. Best of all, he takes responsibility for his accidents with the proper humility.  And he's only a puppy. Imagine what he would do in four years. Wally 2020!

      https://hubstatic.com/14943433_f1024.jpg

  5. Valeant profile image88
    Valeantposted 16 months ago

    The lawsuit against the Donald J. Trump Foundation was filed in June 2018 — charging the Foundation’s directors with ignoring their oversight duties under New York’s charity laws and demonstrating how Mr. Trump repeatedly used Foundation money for his own personal, business, and political interests, including the unlawful coordination with his 2016 presidential campaign. In the first half of 2016 — at the height of the Republican primaries — Mr. Trump used Foundation money, raised from the public, to demonstrate his purported generosity and attract votes. Mr. Trump and his campaign doled out $500,000 at a campaign rally in the days leading up to the first primary election in the nation, the Iowa caucuses, then took credit for all $2.8 million in grants the Foundation made.

    In her decision ordering Mr. Trump to pay $2 million, Justice Saliann Scarpulla said, “…Mr. Trump breached his fiduciary duty to the Foundation and that waste occurred to the Foundation. Mr. Trump’s fiduciary duty breaches included allowing his campaign to orchestrate the Fundraiser, allowing his campaign, instead of the Foundation, to direct distribution of the Funds, and using the Fundraiser and distribution of the Funds to further Mr. Trump’s political campaign.”

    What does 'unlawful' mean?  Is that like when someone breaks a law?  When a judge has to determine if you breached a fiduciary duty, were there laws they were applying or were they just making something up, do you think?

    1. wilderness profile image96
      wildernessposted 16 months agoin reply to this

      Does indeed seem that he violated a law, even though the judge noted that the money did end up where it belonged.

      Now how about the rest of those multiple laws you claim he violated?  Did you mean just two (that would technically be "multiple") or did you mean it as it sounded, that he has violated at least a dozen or so?

      1. profile image0
        PrettyPantherposted 16 months agoin reply to this

        It's all fine. Cuz Hillary's emails!

        1. wilderness profile image96
          wildernessposted 16 months agoin reply to this

          Maybe...isn't that kind of the bottom line we're hearing now with Biden?  Personally, I wouldn't agree but then I'm not the one saying it doesn't matter what they did, I won't vote Trump.  Because, don't ya know, ugly words are so much worse than ugly actions.

          1. profile image0
            PrettyPantherposted 16 months agoin reply to this

            And we alll know Trump has never done an action as ugly as Hillary's horrifying server breach.

            I'll stop now. I know you will always defend Trump no matter how vile the behavior. I just have to vent now and then. People are dying, more than necessary, you know, because he had it under control back in January, but those are just words. Hmm, I wonder if those words indicate action, or lack thereof? Oh, that's right. Hillary has murdered what, 91 people? 95? I lost count.

            Oh well.....

            1. Live to Learn profile image79
              Live to Learnposted 16 months agoin reply to this

              Vent now and then? lol lol

              1. profile image0
                PrettyPantherposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                You have a legitimate point for once. big_smile

            2. wilderness profile image96
              wildernessposted 16 months agoin reply to this

              How is it that when someone doesn't agree with you on a totally different topic (whether Biden is fit for presidency, or whether it is reasonable to vote against Trump no matter what) you begin to claim defense of Trump?  I don't have to defend him at all, and didn't, but here you are again, claiming I DID defend him. 

              How does that work?  Is your mind so mired in it's hatred and TDS that everything automatically diverts to being about Trump and if others don't automatically follow along with that they are defending the man?  Against something, anything, even when he isn't even mentioned?  If the topic is cherry pie and I mention I prefer fresh cherries rather than pie, would it mean I'm defending Trump because I disagree with you?

              1. profile image0
                PrettyPantherposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                Yes, you're right. No one besides me has ever thought you consistently defend Trump. My bad.

                1. Valeant profile image88
                  Valeantposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                  No one...

        2. Live to Learn profile image79
          Live to Learnposted 16 months agoin reply to this

          You ignore everything horrid about that woman from as far back as when she was first lady of Arkansas.

          Email, indeed. If that was the extent of the depravity, lies, laws flaunted you'd have a little bit of a point.

          1. profile image0
            PrettyPantherposted 16 months agoin reply to this

            Of course. Yep. Sure thing.

            1. Live to Learn profile image79
              Live to Learnposted 16 months agoin reply to this

              Say what you will. Hillary was among those who profited unfairly while the savings and loan crisis built up to the point many lost their homes. She's a snake.

              1. wilderness profile image96
                wildernessposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                Hey!  There is no cause to degrade snakes.  Some are very pretty and even friendly.  And they dispose of the vermin rather than hire and support them.

                Have a little care where your words go, LtL! big_smile

                1. profile image0
                  PrettyPantherposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                  I know, right? The name calling is so uncalled for. My word! Can we just get a life? Geez.

                2. Live to Learn profile image79
                  Live to Learnposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                  I feel so politically incorrect right now. Do beg pardon.

              2. profile image0
                PrettyPantherposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                Oh, the horror. That is SO unlike Trump.

                1. Live to Learn profile image79
                  Live to Learnposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                  Yes. It is unlike Trump. Criticisms can be made of both but they are different criticisms.

                  1. profile image0
                    PrettyPantherposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                    Um. Yeah. Okay.

      2. Valeant profile image88
        Valeantposted 16 months agoin reply to this

        Seem?  Jesus, you can't even admit when you're wrong about something.

        Did I say multiple?  Did I say a dozen?  Again, putting words into other's people's mouths seems to be a specialty of yours so you can accuse them of being liars.  Thanks for that apology by the way.

        1. wilderness profile image96
          wildernessposted 16 months agoin reply to this

          It is "seems" because I did not research it and your past posts are as biased against Trump as it is possible to be, filled with opinion disguised as fact, gross exaggerations and outright falsehoods.  So, "seems".

          "Whoever is nominated is better than a dishonest narcissist who is using the government to personally benefit while breaking multiple laws and governing for the benefit of less than half the country while throwing out childish nicknames at half of the rest."

          https://hubpages.com/politics/forum/347 … ost4129945

          Yes, you said "multiple".  Who is putting words where?

          We could discuss the latter part of the claim as well, the "governing for the benefit of less than half the country" part, but somehow I think it would be futile.  Tax refunds to nearly everyone, jobs for everyone that wants one, slowing the number of illegal border crossings, growing 401 plans...all of these kinds of things are only for the rich or they came from Obama.  Not much reason to debate just who that "half" of the people is under those circumstances.

          Oh, and I await your apology for the snark about putting words in people's mouths...

          1. Valeant profile image88
            Valeantposted 16 months agoin reply to this

            It appears I did say multiple, which I believe I already proved without having to go much further.  But of which I could, as that first example took all of five seconds to find.

            When did I say a dozen, by the way?  I should have figured you can't admit to being wrong and being man enough to actually apologize for calling me a liar.  It's a truly Trumpian quality you have there.  No wonder you come on here to defend him so much.

        2. profile image0
          PrettyPantherposted 16 months agoin reply to this

          My word, Valeant. Can't you see that if you show Trump was found to have violated a couple of laws, the bar will then be a dozen? And rightly so! Get a grip, man. This is serious stuff. At least we avoided having a real snake in office.

  6. Valeant profile image88
    Valeantposted 16 months ago

    Biden knows the manual. 
    '
    https://hubstatic.com/14944521.jpg

    This is exactly what we were warned about before the election.

    He wouldn’t (or couldn't now that we've seen his grammar skills) read the manual though; he knows everything better than the experts.

    Now, when the airplane is losing altitude, he’s blaming everyone else, and still won’t let anyone near the controls.

  7. profile image0
    PrettyPantherposted 16 months ago

    You think Trump's incessant lying, bragging and bullying are merely his "public face" and you ask me how gullible I  am?

    Pardon me while I ROFLMAO!

    1. Randy Godwin profile image62
      Randy Godwinposted 16 months agoin reply to this

      Move over and give me some room on the floor as well, Sandy. Wonder what Trump's private face looks like? roll

      1. Randy Godwin profile image62
        Randy Godwinposted 16 months agoin reply to this

        Dan seems not to realize there are decades of Trump's personality to peruse if one desires to. There are audios of Trump acting as though he were someone else when he called into radio shows to brag on himself. He used the alias of John Baron, apparently where he got the name for his youngest child from.

        As John Baron, he would brag on Donald's great intelligence, wealth, and fabulous business deals he'd made. Of course, John Baron is the same personae as Trump, and can't help from bragging on himself to the point of going way overboard.

        And this is the person attempting to lead the free world. Moe help us all!  yikes

        1. profile image0
          PrettyPantherposted 16 months agoin reply to this

          OMG,  I had forgotten about John Baron.. There are so many awful and ridiculous facets to Trump, one can't remember all of them. To me, what is both shocking and maddening is that just one or two of these Trump qualities should be enough to indicate to most people that the man is not presidential material.

          1. Live to Learn profile image79
            Live to Learnposted 16 months agoin reply to this

            That's what I said about Hillary and now Biden. Yet you supported one and accept the other.

            How shocking.

            1. profile image0
              PrettyPantherposted 16 months agoin reply to this

              Yeah, well, history will eventually pass judgment on all of it and one of us will be on the right side, eh?

              Edit: Just wondering, what does it mean to "accept" Biden? What an odd choice of words.

              1. Live to Learn profile image79
                Live to Learnposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                You'd prefer he not be the candidate, I think you've stated, but you support him for president, if that is the option the DNC is going to give you. Correct?

                As to history. Perhaps it will deem one opinion right over the other but probably not. Definitely not for a very long time and then it will only be because the issues of this day are things of the past.

                1. Randy Godwin profile image62
                  Randy Godwinposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                  That's deep, Denise. I may just have to roll up my pants legs. tongue

                2. profile image0
                  PrettyPantherposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                  Geez, how many times do I have to say I will not vote for either Trump or Biden, even if he is the nominee. I will write in Elizabeth Warren.

                  1. Live to Learn profile image79
                    Live to Learnposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                    I'll attempt to remember that. I suppose throwing your vote away on principal isn't all bad.

          2. Randy Godwin profile image62
            Randy Godwinposted 16 months agoin reply to this

            I know, it's like an episode of The Twilight Zone for real! yikes

      2. GA Anderson profile image93
        GA Andersonposted 16 months agoin reply to this

        How about this one . . .


        https://hubstatic.com/14946760_f1024.jpg

        . . . as long as we are ROFLMAO!

        GA ;-)

        1. Randy Godwin profile image62
          Randy Godwinposted 16 months agoin reply to this

          Good one, Gus! lol

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HubPages Google AnalyticsThis is used to provide data on traffic to our website, all personally identifyable data is anonymized. (Privacy Policy)
HubPages Traffic PixelThis is used to collect data on traffic to articles and other pages on our site. Unless you are signed in to a HubPages account, all personally identifiable information is anonymized.
Amazon Web ServicesThis is a cloud services platform that we used to host our service. (Privacy Policy)
CloudflareThis is a cloud CDN service that we use to efficiently deliver files required for our service to operate such as javascript, cascading style sheets, images, and videos. (Privacy Policy)
Google Hosted LibrariesJavascript software libraries such as jQuery are loaded at endpoints on the googleapis.com or gstatic.com domains, for performance and efficiency reasons. (Privacy Policy)
Features
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Google MapsSome articles have Google Maps embedded in them. (Privacy Policy)
Google ChartsThis is used to display charts and graphs on articles and the author center. (Privacy Policy)
Google AdSense Host APIThis service allows you to sign up for or associate a Google AdSense account with HubPages, so that you can earn money from ads on your articles. No data is shared unless you engage with this feature. (Privacy Policy)
Google YouTubeSome articles have YouTube videos embedded in them. (Privacy Policy)
VimeoSome articles have Vimeo videos embedded in them. (Privacy Policy)
PaypalThis is used for a registered author who enrolls in the HubPages Earnings program and requests to be paid via PayPal. No data is shared with Paypal unless you engage with this feature. (Privacy Policy)
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MavenThis supports the Maven widget and search functionality. (Privacy Policy)
Marketing
Google AdSenseThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Google DoubleClickGoogle provides ad serving technology and runs an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Index ExchangeThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
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Facebook AdsThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Amazon Unified Ad MarketplaceThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
AppNexusThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
OpenxThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Rubicon ProjectThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
TripleLiftThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Say MediaWe partner with Say Media to deliver ad campaigns on our sites. (Privacy Policy)
Remarketing PixelsWe may use remarketing pixels from advertising networks such as Google AdWords, Bing Ads, and Facebook in order to advertise the HubPages Service to people that have visited our sites.
Conversion Tracking PixelsWe may use conversion tracking pixels from advertising networks such as Google AdWords, Bing Ads, and Facebook in order to identify when an advertisement has successfully resulted in the desired action, such as signing up for the HubPages Service or publishing an article on the HubPages Service.
Statistics
Author Google AnalyticsThis is used to provide traffic data and reports to the authors of articles on the HubPages Service. (Privacy Policy)
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ClickscoThis is a data management platform studying reader behavior (Privacy Policy)