Final Presidential Debate of 2020: Who won? Donald Trump or Joe Biden?
- Stevennix2001posted 4 years ago
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Before anyone else opens up a forum about this, and I know the debate is still going on. Who do you think won this year's final presidential debate of this year?I'm 37 minutes into it.
It's like a complete 180 from the last debate. President Trump is being shockingly calm. I think he's doing a good job, for him, of explaining his positions.
I find Biden's approach somewhat odd. It's almost like he's mimicking Trump in how he's behaving.
Trump's tack about how rich Biden is and how much money he's made from China and Russia and how many houses Biden has is one of the weirdest strategies I've heard. Biden's the rich one? All that stuff from the New York Post that Trump's own people said was Russian disinformation just seems so desperate and downright weird. Biden's response about releasing his taxes seemed apropos.
That all said, I can't stand anything about Trump, but his delivery is better than Biden's. I find Biden more off-putting than Trump in terms of listening to them both, which is unfortunate. I always feel like Biden isn't make the points he should be making.
The substance of what they're discussing is kind of boring.Well considering how poorly Trump did in the last debate, I think he needs to dominate it if he wants to convince swing voters to go his way, while all Biden needs to do is not screw up. However, it'll be interesting to see how this one ends.
If that's the standard, then that's not going to happen. What I get from watching Trump is that he's determined he needs to be presidential instead of some crazy guy off the street. In that respect, I think he's doing a good job. As far as voters go, maybe that convinces a few undecideds that Trump can grow into the job or something.
Trump saying again that a virus would be available in two weeks seems stupid. Everybody knows that's not possible. It's clear he will say anything to convince people everything is okay.Trump is doing better, but he is starting to unravel a bit, whining about how everyone picks on him and running off topic with angry rants, Also talking over the moderator. The child can only be contained for so long.
Joe is doing fine. He's just not as animated as Trump, but some people like that. It's more presidential and comes across as more confident.
[Trump just got muted! LOL]I thought he said a few weeks, and in fact that was repeated by the moderator as I recall.
Perhaps one of us misheard the comment.A few sounds right. Whatever that means. He's been making up time frames since this whole things started.
Okay Crankiliouous, I am giving you a first impression —before the debate is over, Pres Trump is doing much better. He is not, yet, interrupting or bloviating.
However, I do see Biden having a problem addressing the latest Hutner, (Tony Boglioudod(?)), Biden allegations.
But, those are just early observations. As I continue to watch, Biden is not gaining ground—in my opinion.
But, I do like the moderator's choice of Blouses. She looks, and has acted, very professional. I give her an A+.
GAI don't think Biden responded all that well either, but it's such a convoluted issue that I also don't think explaining anything about it would help him.
From what I've read and what Trump's own officials have said, the issue is complete garbage. I read a little on the $3.5 million from Moscow and it just sounds made up. Trump's FBI seems more worried that Rudy is willingly carrying Russian disinformation.
It mostly sounds like Trump throwing jello at a wall and hoping it sticks.
" desperate and downright weird" --- .You are aware the FBI does have Hunters Biden and now today Hunter's business associated PC and cell phones? The Post is standing behind the article. Plus we now have a whistleblower. A MrTony Bobulinski has stepped up with an account Joe Biden made millions from Hunter peddling his dad's position in Washington. He has nothing to do with Russia? Actually, he did meet today with the FBI. It would seem his whistleblowing needs to be investigated to see if there have been any illegal crimes committed by Hunter or his dad. I do realize the other networks are not talking about this development. But, that is what Trump was referring to when he went after Biden's finances. I think Biden's response denial of the accusations was something to consider. I will wait for more info on these accusations. But I will say Tony B was very straight forward with his accusations and claimed his PC and text will prove his allegations. I also found it sort of foolish for Biden to bring up Trump's China bank account. The NYT got that info from Trump's tax records. No secret there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZdixYIU2w0
https://www.foxnews.com/media/cnn-msnbc … -joe-bidenTrump's own intelligence officials have said this is Russian disinformation.
Tucker Carlson recently ran a whole piece on how COVID was made in a Chinese lab that turned out to be fake news generated by Steve Bannon. You remember Steve Bannon, right? That guy who created the fake company to take your money to build the wall and then embezzled most of it?
In other words, the NY Post needs to turn over that laptop to somebody we can trust. So far, we've got the New York Post and Fox News making a big deal about this while Trump's own officials say it's Russian disinformation. Can't say I'm giving it a lot of credence.
Forbes lays out the many reasons the story is very likely bogus:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/joewalsh/2 … 1cf0349c41The FBI has a laptop. Have you not seen any of the documents? You think this tony Bobulinski whistleblower is in some way connected to Russia. Plus the FBI had a press conference to clear up the CNN and MSNBC misinformation on Russia's disinformation Maybe we are talking about something different?
Forbes lays out why nobody believes this.
And we know that both Fox News and NY Post are publications that regular publish made up information.
Has everyone seemingly forgotten that the NY Post is the equivalent of The National Enquirer? I mean, it's embarrassing to use them as a source for a story.Well, I have looked at the documents in the post article, also Fox verified two of them by speaking with those on the email chain the two they have been speaking about. I would think if they were some form of fakes people on the chain would say so? I also think it brave of the Whistleblower to step up and be offer his email texts and his account of meetings with Joe Biden.
Do you feel Tony Bobulinski is lying? He claims he felt it his duty to step up before Biden was voted in as president. That statement does make me wonder, seems he should have stepped up sooner. I have to think with all the stir the FBI should step up and let the public know if the Biden's are being investigated. Tony Bobulinski did meet with the FBI today according to his Atty. And Fox confirmed he did meet with the FBI today. It will be interesting to see what comes of his visit and his Laptop.It has got to be a bit more than convienient that the Trump campaign sees fit to investigate Joe Biden just days before the election.
The FBI has had Hunter Biden's PC since Dec 2019. It would seem as you say "more than convenient". My gut tells me there is something to all this, and it was well-orchestrated and seems almost vengeful. If you know what I mean... And at this point, my gut is also telling me I need wine!
Are we certain that his father is really guilty of criminal activity? The thing is that Biden has provide his tax returns for public record. It would seem that if he had accumulated all the horrendous sums Trump say that he had there would be evidence of the income on the return. Where is Trump's right to make accusations when there remain so many in unsettled issue about his paying taxes?
"Are we certain that his father is really guilty of criminal activity?"
Wait three years while we put the FBI and every other resource the US has on proving it. And if it doesn't work, wait while we conduct a faux impeachment to see if that works. By then we should have an answer.
It seems incredible that you ask what Trump's right is to make accusations when so many (unproven and unprovable) were made against him.Just like Benghazi and Obamagate, right?
Incidentally, how many people died in Benghazi, 4? And we've got 200,000+ dead from COVID and rising and a President who is encouraging people to get sick and Trump supporters don't seem to care. Very interesting.
Incidentally, anyone see Rudy Giuliani reaching in his pants in the Borat movie while in bed with what he thought was a 15-year-old girl? Maybe that requires an investigation? Does QAnon know about this?
And we've been over this so many times. A Republican commission released a report - the Trump campaign met with Russian intelligence officials. Isn't that something your government should investigate? Oh wait, I forgot, Russians are the good guys now. Russia good. China bad. Totally forgot."Just like Benghazi and Obamagate, right?"
And Trump's collusion with Putin to throw the election, and whatever crap Pelosi and her partners came up with to claim in his impeachment.He's on tape offering the Ukranian President something in exchange for dirt on Biden.
"It seems incredible that you ask what Trump's right is to make accusations when so many (unproven and unprovable) were made against him"
It is funny how when it comes to outrages perpetrated by Republicans on Democrats, we should recognize that "two wrongs don't make a right" and we all should operate at a higher standard. But Trump and the Republicans are allowed to fight back in kind to what the "Democrats have done to them". Intersting......Now, now. We all knew Trump was innocent of the charges made against him...but we all know Biden is guilty of those charges and many, many more besides. It is Trump's duty to make accusations against criminals, and that is far different from Pelosi and others making unfounded accusations against an innocent President.
Sounds pretty good if we just spin it the right way, right?So well put... And many can't see why the great divide. Common sense - illogical thinking, the two will never, I mean never mesh.
It is great spin and a crock of choice bull$hit as well, Wilderness.
I won't buy it, but of course, you already knew that.
There is no difference, 6 of one vs half dozen of the other. More of the hypocrisy and brazen double standards always exhibited by the ideological Right.
No, we only have the word of Tony Bobulinski that he personally met with Joe Biden and his brother. He claims his Laptop and three phones have evidence to back his story. It is true Joe Biden has provided his taxes. It's not Trump accusing Biden of making money illegally from foreign countries it's the New York Post. Trump is repeating their accusations.
I would think Trump would be afforded the same right as the Dems? They accused Trump of all kinds of crimes do you remember the Mueller report. Do you remember Adam Schiff claiming on MSNBC claiming he had proof Trump was in collusion with the Russians? How about the Donald Jr. meeting at Trump tower? A meeting he had in his office with Russian citizens, that lasted ten minutes. The Dems have made so many horrible unsubstantiated claims against Trump one could write a book. How about the dossier? Never a name, never a face... It well appearance several have stepped up to back up Biden and his son were raking in cash from foreign counties. I like names and faces, and hopefully depositions by the FBI.
In regards to Trump's taxes. If he broke any tax laws I will leave it up to the IRA to handle that problem.
And you can bet they would if they could.
Trump most likely has the goods and is about to even the score for 4 long years of what he has had to put up with. Hopefully, the FBI steps up and informs the nation that there is or is not an investigation on the Biden family. We have a right to know. I would think Biden would demand this from the FBI.Before Trump discloses this information as part of the debate strategy, perhaps he should have substantiated his claim beyond what is alleged by the New York Post. The debate lecture is for something other than conspiracy theories and gossip.
Yes, the claims have been horrible. But the real horror is that many of them are true.
When he ceases being the President, then the full weight of the IRS will be applied to citizen Trump.
Whatever is the story on investigations, time is running out so those that are hooked on this have 8 days.The FBI is not obligated to stop investigating Biden's or is the DOJ. You know like they did Trump for the tune of 48 million and two years. And I differ to argue but Fox as well as the post have verified the emails they posted. I would suppose you are not inclined to believe Mr. Boblinski? At this point, he is a whistleblower and needs to be respected as one.
Consider the impeachment trial there was not one piece of verifiable evidence presented, only a stream of hearsay witnesses. This Bobulinski has a name a face, and first-hand information.It would sound as if you are not concerned about the accusations the whistleblowers have brought forward? Hopefully, if the FBI is investigating the accusations they will continue to do their job after the election. I almost would assume you would feel it fair if it was dropped.
We are all interested in the truth Sharlee, it just seems like there is a partisan bent that distinguishes investigations into Trump and his administration which conservatives say were bogus verses those of Joe Biden that they are determine to push as if the man is already guilty of something.
Like I mentioned, the timing of all of this just makes me suspect Trump and his motives all that much more.That's odd - they look almost exactly the same to me! It's true that the accusations against Biden have more to go on than the ones about Trump colluding with Putin, but truly there doesn't seem that much difference. If, that is, one goes into it with an open mind rather than one that deep down believes the accusations because they don't like (Biden,Trump) in the first place.
"It's true that the accusations against Biden have more to go on than the ones about Trump"
That, too, is a matter of opinion.
You're right, there isn't much difference from the view of an outside observer. The point is that the Republicans are not above this stuff any more than DemocratsWell, the original complaint has, as far as I've seen, been totally discredited. A made up thing without basis at all.
But "The point is that the Republicans are not above this stuff any more than Democrats" doesn't square very well with "it just seems like there is a partisan bent that distinguishes investigations into Trump and his administration which conservatives say were bogus verses those of Joe Biden...".
To be fair I must say all the Trump allegations had nothing to substantiate truth, and he was crucified nonstop by Media as well as Democratic Washington former and bodies as well as Adam Schiff, and the likes of him. Actually telling TV listeners he had seen proof Of Trump quilt In the end no proof of collusion except on the part of the DNC, FBI, and who knows who else. They impeached a president on hearsay... I am more apt to believe Hunter's partners and the man that handed over Hunters Laptop to the FBI. They have names and faces, and all have stepped up to provide information. As of yet, nothing has been proved to include Joe Biden conclusively. I don't think Trump or his administration should be acting as if Biden is guilty. One would think Trump knows how it feels after the Dems have ridden him for so many years with false reports of crimes. Maybe payback?
I agree the timing leaves one to think. However, this is why I think the FBI needs to provide a few answers. Are they investigating Joe Biden, and if so is the investigation showing reason he would be compromised as President. Just my view,
I have always found the new York Post articles pretty much backed up with names and faces, like the one we are discussing. They provided names, photo's of documents, and have stood behind the accusations thus far. These accusations are inflammatory, as well as defaming the Biden family in general. It would seem a lawsuit will follow if the accusations are untrue.
The Post is one of the oldest publications in the country, they cover stories pretty well and dot their I's.
As I said I think the American people need to hear from the FBI at this point to verify if they have an open investigation into the Biden's. They need not go into any detail to be fair to the Biden's. However, we need clarification on all of this.
Fox also verified the two emails they have been reporting on, following up with the persons the emails were sent to.
I think it poor that the Trump team used Guliani to break the story, I think they used him to sensationalize the story quickly, and he could leak things that would otherwise not be leaked.The New York Post first claimed that Joe Biden had met with a Burisma executive — an assertion unproved by the documents in the paper’s possession, and one that spokesmen for both Joe and Hunter Biden deny. Even if true, this wouldn’t be wrong, because the vice president didn’t do anything to help the Ukrainian energy company. Biden did pressure Ukraine to fire a corrupt prosecutor, but the prosecutor wasn’t investigating Burisma.
The second non-scandal is the claim that Joe Biden was part of a 2017 deal with Hunter Biden involving a Chinese oil company. Even if true, this also wouldn’t be wrong, because Joe Biden was a private citizen then. But it’s not true. The Wall Street Journal reports that the venture “never received proposed funds from the Chinese company or completed any deals” and that “corporate records … show no role for Joe Biden.” So this was a deal that never occurred and that Joe Biden wasn’t involved in. Some scandal.
And now Eric Trump is accusing Hunter Biden on Fox News of being involved with human trafficking and prostitution. And people think Trump doesn't support and follow QAnon?I know nothing about Hunter Biden being involved with human trafficking, and the story that a tape of him beating and having sex with 10-year-olds is true. Hopefully not... You are reading too much in my post. I will not condemn or defend the story. I did point out that the Post, as a rule, backs up their reports with names, and evidence. Which at this point they claim to have vetted the emails with the chain they followed. I think with this kind of accusations we need to hear from the FBI. Rep. Ron Johnson has requested just that... The FBI, at last, I heard The FBI said it would not confirm or deny any information identified by committee staff, Johnson said. Source --- https://www.ntd.com/sen-ron-johnson-cal … 19486.html
I actually think it was Gulliani that said he had the videos of Hunter doing "unspeakable things". I take anything he says with a grain of salt.
At this point, I feel we need answers to either kill this rumor or confirm if any laws were broken. Whish between me and you, it seems to not matter much to voters.
CNN had a panel of undecided voters in North Carolina.
I believe there were 12 of them. Two of them said the debate was a draw. The others all said Biden won.
Frankly, I found this result shocking. Genuinely surprised. The clear determining factor of the debate seemed to be Biden's ability to connect with voters from both sides of the fence, to not polarize people with his answers.
If that panel was an accurate reflection of that portion of the electorate or an accurate reflection of a decent piece of the electorate, this election is over.Really appreciated that both were following the rules ---Trump won in my view. First, anyone aware of what has been going on for many months with the virus realizes each action Joe claims he would do, has already been done long ago by the president. And then there was his line ---" we are in for a dark winter" made me realize immediately he was going to proceed in his gloom and doom fear-mongering agenda, that he has proceeded to pandered out from his basement for months. Trump cornered him on every subject, in my view. Biden floundered like a deer in the headlights. Biden offered nothing but phony fluffy emotional statements I have come to expect from him, and he was true to his flip-floppy history. Biden has never done anything in his many years in Washington. He is a man that is running a campaign laden with fear and hopes to promote anger against a president that has truly done a great job.
Now, Trump, he was honest, straight forward, and shared his views without any phony politicking. Yeah, some might not have wanted to hear his take on the virus, the economy, and immigration. But for me,
I liked to hear his views, not something someone told him to say. Love his policy, and appreciate the job he had done. Guess you know who I voted for... So pleased to see this subject posted. Thank you!Sure, if you ignore the 50 or so lies he told.
Well, at least he has not walked back what he said. Biden has been flip-flopping by the time he left the building the debate was held in. I am not sure what you feel Trump lied about or should I say what you have been told Trump lied about. Hopefully, you caught the wonderful news --- President Donald J. Trump Brokers a Historic Peace Agreement Between Israel and Sudan. the third such agreement between Israel and an Arab-Muslim nation in less than three months. And it is thought 5 more will come on in the very near future... Wonder why this is not being reported by the media? This president has so many outstanding accomplishments. It's shameful that they are not reported...
And thankfully, we're rounding the corner on this Coronavirus thing. It's all good news.
Yes! And a vaccine will be available in a few weeks!
And isn't it wonderful? He will release his "beautiful" health care plan after he is elected! Just like he promised in 2016!
I'm SOoooo excited!We have flattened the curve, as Fauci predicted back in March, and will now have a falling spike as he predicted back in March. But one promising thing the death rate is down. And this to me is good news. Are we as Trump claims to round the curve? I would say with the flatting of the curve as Fauci predicted, and keeping it flattened, we may be rounding the curve. His statement was meant to be uplifting. I took it as that. Did not read in anything. he certainly has a right to his opinion I found it in great contrast to Biden's opinion. "We are in for a long dark winter. So, encouraging... But I will admit he has apparently reached his mark. It is my hope there are more American's that will be positive, look at what we must work through, and that it does not have to be so dark.
Meanwhile, the President encourages people to go out in the world, get sick, and sicken others by gathering and not wearing masks.
Not surprisingly, yesterday we hit a record for COVID cases.
Do you realize what that kind of ineptitude costs the country? In healthcare costs? Business losses? Sick days taken?Everybody has an opinion. Are those opinions to be taken seriously because they are based on a solid foundation of knowledge? Or, are they merely wishful thinking based on a shaky foundation of bias and misinformation?
Exactly. And right now we're in a battle between those who respect and trust experts and those who don't.
This is a meme that can associate with, at least to a point. But (there is always a "but", isn't there) it has a couple of glaring problems.
First is that most "expert" decisions are at least partially made with concern to either money or politics. "Will I lose my grant if I say this?", or "Will I be called a fool because my conclusion does not agree with popular consensus?" are both very large concerns today. It's nothing new - Galileo was confined to house arrest for years and years because his conclusions did not agree with popular beliefs, and it is a rare scientist today that doesn't get his living from government; a government that is far more concerned with agreement than with truth.
The second is that it is a rare conclusion today that can rest on it's own. In the matter at hand - the virus - would you take the advice of an economist on whether we should unilaterally shut down business? An educator giving an opinion of the relative value of students learning at home rather than in a hands-on environment with trained educators? In addition (again with the virus) we've seen conclusions and advice flip flop from the same "experts" as they learned more about it - science, and the experts in it, are not static, immediately knowing everything there is to know. What we "know" changes with time and with additional information.
So in that regard we must all be "experts" ourselves; experts in unravelling the tangled web of what is true and what is said for other reasons, and experts in putting together the opinions of those that really are "expert" in many different fields to come to a final conclusion about what is best for us, for our family, for our town or state and for our country. It is not nearly as simple as it sounds."It's nothing new - Galileo was confined to house arrest for years and years because his conclusions did not agree with popular beliefs, and it is a rare scientist today that doesn't get his living from government; a government that is far more concerned with agreement than with truth."
Just how absurd is this, comparing a renown man of conscience like Galileo with a fellow like Trump?
Wilderness, with you, it just gets better and better.....
What is Trump's claim to the Truth, what is it based on, what supporting evidence and credentials does he have to challenge the scientists to support what he says? Let's hear it.
But, I forget, conservatives are attracted to authoritarians, so what Trump knows or doesn't know really does not matter. All you guys know is that HE says so, that is all the truth you need.And all you need to know is that what Trump says isn't what you want to hear. That's all the "truth" you need.
GAThat is ripe, GA
I want the truth and I want it backed by more that wishful thinking, misdirection, etc.
But again, I hear that conservatives are suspicious of scientists, science and eggheads? Why else does things like QAnon seem to go so far within their circles?
What Trump says he had better be able to support with more than just the "force of his personality"Yeah, that was a bit harsh. But it was late. However, even though your comment, (except for the lumping of conservatives part), was mostly on mark, I still think mine was too. ;-)
GA
We are in agreement that President Trump is ill equipt to speak about the science of a virus or what would help flatten the curve. He does have the right to his opinion if we perhaps have rounded the curve. It's his opinion... As it is Biden's opinion that we will have a dark winter. We are certainly in for fall and winter cases spikes, which was well predicted by not only Faici but many virologists. I would suppose the two men have very different ways of looking at the prognosis for the Virus. Trump is we will get through this. Myself, I tend to keep on the positive side. We need to get to the other end of this, I choose to do it without wringing my hands, but doing my best without letting it completely suppress my life.
The author made a very good point. As I stated in my comment I listened to Fauci from the very beginning. Each and everything he has said is available on youtube. He has proven himself to be very much correct about what we could expect as we make our way through the virus. He never promised us a rose garden, and in my view as a nurse and an education that includes a BA in the science of human anatomy. I feel Doc's on the task force have been straight forward with the fact that we will only be able to flatten the curve until we get a vaccine.Lot's of goodies on that link. I lived through each and every sandal, off-colored language, accusations of sexual explodes, and four years of media hate bad man with orange hair. I also lived the last four years with his accomplishments they just outweigh all the crazy. I said it in 2016, and I will repeat it. I don't appreciate well-given speeches and all the political pandering. I opted for a man that pretty much lets it all hang out... But gets things done. Plus, I could never bring myself to vote for anyone that clearly has done nothing while in Washington 50 years. Plus, he can't even offer up those pretty speeches as Obama did.
Here, Sharlee. Another bone for you! This guy is a friend of mine:
https://pagetwo.completecolorado.com/20 … for-trump/
Great post. I really liked the "Google University" part. Even as a guilty Google researcher, I still liked that quip.
Now I am off to ask my friend Google who Stevie Berryman is. ;-)
GA
It is easy when you leave the Palestinians and their grievances out of the equation. They are not satisfied with any of this, when have their concerns been addressed?
So, unless the Palestinians are mollified, the entire Middle East must remain a powder keg?
Is there any reality that these few baby steps might lead to better things for the Middle East, and, the Palestinians?
Because the Palestinian 'solution', (the two-state option), is not part of these other agreements, is there no consideration for any other type of Middle East progress?
Is that your position? Could you possibly entertain that old adage that 'half a loaf is better than none?'
GA
GAAnyone could have settled for this sort of outcome going back to Carter, Begin, and Sadat. I hardly see giving Trump a medal for this as he has given a lot to Netanyahu, it is no wonder that he support Trump so much. Recognizing Jerusalem as the capital also was a thumb in the Palestinians eye. But, I dislike Netanyahu as much as I do Trump.
My actual opinion is mixed much as it is portrayed in this article
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/16/opin … n-uae.html
i will have to look more closely regarding the true nature of his accomplishment that I should be overjoyed over."i will have to look more closely regarding the true nature of his accomplishment that I should be overjoyed over."
Why would you bother? In my view, you have missed so much over the past four years it would seem a bit too late at this point to realize how much Trump has accomplished. You need not be overjoyed by any of Trump's accomplishments if that suits your purpose. However, that does not expunge his accomplishments.
Your sentiment -- " I hardly see giving Trump a medal for this as he has given a lot to Netanyahu,"
Am I to understand an actual peace accord in the Middle East should not warrant a Nobel Peace prize or some form of accolade? The Middle East unrest and warring have been remarkably constant for centuries. I would think any bit of movement toward peace would be an accomplishment. Trump has now five countries in the Middle East working toward a peaceful way to share an intercontinental area, and bring peace to their citizen's lives. This is a historic foreign accomplishment.
Did you feel Obama deserved a Nobel for --- "extraordinary efforts to strengthen international diplomacy and cooperation between people".?
Let's assess the view of Nobel secretary Geir Lundestad feels about the award Obama received https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34277960My only problem with your linked article is that it so begrudgingly admits this achievement is a good thing. I think all of its conditional qualifiers are fair, but I also think these deals deserve more credit as real advancement in the Middle East than they are being given.
The agreements may not be the Big Deal Middle East agreement that everyone has pursued, but it is at least a positive step that no one else accomplished.
GAI also agree that the Middle East agreements are a significant accomplishment.
The problem we have now is that everything is so polarized that one side can't give the other side credit for anything. If Nancy Pelosi were to say she was impressed by the Middle East agreement, she'd find herself used in a campaign ad or something. Politicians are frozen stiff.+1 Partisanship has taken priority over honesty, truth, the people and the country itself.
The Palestinians are as welcome as any of the Middle East countries to join in the peace, and enjoy what peace could offer. I would have to point to what seems to at this point be a majority that is satisfied in the movement toward Middle East peace. And I might add their concerns have been considered for many decades of negotiating. It seems you just can't give Trump a win even on something that is so positive. This fact should make you pause and consider you too may just be carrying a bias. To me Trump trying to bring some please to the middle east is good... And yes it could be better if the Palestinians could be included. I prefer to hope at some point they will come into this peace deal. I am a cup half full kind of person. There is always what if's.
You're right. It's a great ad...for Republicans. Don't think I've seen so many lies or so much false spin/insinuation in such a short time period
Where was there a single lie in that video, in your opinion? How many bankruptcies has he filed? How many sexual assault allegations have been made against him? How much debt does he have? How many porn stars has he paid off? The only insinuation I think is unfair is the 220,000 dead. However, now that we know that he and Jared wanted to take back the country from the doctors, he's got to have some fault. I mean, who wants those pesky doctors controlling health decisions?
Lie: an attempt to convince that something is true when it isn't.
So yes, the dead was a lie in that it attempted to put the blame on Trump. So was the attempt to say he is grossly in debt when in fact that's how business make money; borrow it then use the loan to build a business paying more than the loan re-payment. Not a thing wrong with it, but the insinuation is that there is something wrong.
I could go on; it was all in the same vein, but you will simply deny that any of it was wrong...if the words stand alone and the implication is ignored. Even the comment on the dead falls into that category!Except not really. He did pay off porn stars. He did declare several different bankruptcies - leaving Atlantic City a mess and sticking the taxpayers with the bill. He is massively in debt, so that's not a lie either, but the insinuation that it's a problem may or may not be. Since American banks won't loan Trump money, perhaps that's not far off either? It's also true that his associates have committed crimes and been arrested for them.
The only one that's really blatantly unfair is to foist the whole death toll on Trump. However, the implication should be made. How many have died because of how he downplayed the virus and took the country back from the doctors? How many died because of his mockery of mask wearing and undermining of different state mandates?
Here's a different ad:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoNZR2t … e=emb_logoWhat is your point?
I agree with that commercial and what it says. But, that doesn't mean I accept it as a Joe Biden statement of priorities..
However, I would be inclined to believe it is a statement that many Americans would agree with. Now, all w have to do is decide who would best serve us in living up to the standards of your commercial.
I have 'burnt out' on politics Crankalicious. I don't believe any political ads now. I remember a time when a man's word was worth something. But in today's time, it only means what it means to the crowd it is spoken to.
If the Republicans' word meant anything, they would have not pushed through the Barret nomination. And if the Democrats' word meant anything they would not have pushed through the impeachment hearings.
For each positive Democrat 'heart of America' ad, I could easily present a similarly positive Republican ad. So what is your point?
GANow that we've taken the country back from the doctors, maybe we should take hospitals and medicine back from the doctors too? It's not far off!
I thought Trump missed a tremendous opportunity when Biden accused him of racism for saying he didn't want "Mexican rapists" entering the country.
He should have asked if Biden supported "Mexican rapists" coming in. To turn a comment that he didn't want criminals from the biggest supplier of illegal border crossings into something racist was unreasonable and he could have shut that down, especially after spreading his hands and saying he didn't know why he is accused of racism. It would have made a pretty good answer, I thought.I thought Biden missed more opportunities than I can count. My overall impression of Biden is that he's not that sharp or that he's not a great debater (to be fair, his stutter may have something to do with this). And I can't stand listening to him.
LOL I'm actually better at listening to Biden than Trump. Go figure.
His mocking laugh bothers me, but the stutter doesn't (although it did my wife). But Trump; his constant use of superlatives and his constant beating his own chest as the greatest thing since sliced bread DOES bother me. A lot.
Still, at the end of the day it was Biden that lost, for me, with some of his plans. The nonexistent plan to stop the virus, the plan to once more grant amnesty and citizenship to illegal aliens, the plan, over and over and over, to spend (or give away) vast sums while assuming there is unlimited money: those were some of the things that his message turned me away.
Biden is doomed. Even he knows that he is not going to win this time. When Hillari couldn't win, it is impossible for Biden to win.
I also have to wonder if Trump didn't win a huge point when he made it plain that he supported re-opening the country while Biden repeatedly made it clear he supports shutting it back down.
I say that because there seem to be millions of people also supporting that (for a variety of reasons) - people that are becoming increasingly vocal and vehement about shutdowns.How can you say that? Biden repeatedly said he wanted to shut down the virus, not the country. He said that businesses need an effective plan to reopen. Same with schools. In fact, this turns out to be exactly right. I have one kid in school now four days a week because the district was able to plan correctly and has the materials they needed. They also opened to younger kids first as a test.
Furthermore, what's so hard to understand that things will be shut down if there isn't a plan? Biden made exactly this point about the mid-Western states, which are seeing spikes and having real problems. If all the hospitals are full, that's a problem. If we don't have enough health care workers, that's a problem. Those health care workers need a break.
However, I will concede that I thought Biden did a poor job of differentiating what he needs to do to make re-opening easier. I thought the comment about plexiglass in restaurants was stupid. However, I'm not going to eat in a sit down restaurant anytime soon and I imagine few others will either, plexiglass or no plexiglass. I'll continue ordering take-out.Yeah, sure. He's going to shake his finger at the virus, telling it to "STOP RIGHT NOW" and it will shut down. That poor job of differentiating what needs done is the point.
He also supported throwing massive amounts of money to people in order to make it possible to re-open...without giving any specifics outside of ventilation in schools how that might happen. Your final paragraph says exactly what I'm saying - he has no plan at all, and his talking was just political rhetoric while keeping the option to close down the actual plan. IMO.
It is interesting that neither party mentioned hospitals that have closed/are closing because of lack of business. That would seem to be a pretty big thing as hospitals once more begin to fill up - our shutdown and panic has harmed our ability to handle the crises.
(I also got a real giggle out of Biden's comment that "Americans don't panic"...while remembering the Great Toilet Paper Shortage caused by panic. Comical.)
Some of my Grandkids are on an in-school week, followed by out-of-school/work at home for a week, alternating with a second group of kids. I assume this is to limit class size and seemed a reasonable compromise to me. Parents are mad, teachers are mad, students unhappy - it must be the right thing to do!
I don't think that Biden was presenting alternatives of either letting the virus run rampant vs shut the entire country down. As he said, we should be smart enough to both walk and chew gum at the same time. The lack of a plan to safely open facilities, be it schools, business, what have you is what Biden was critical of regarding Trump's attitude and approach during the debate,
Trump did perform better at least now the differences between the two men are clear and you hear both sides and can now choose your preference.
To ignore the virus in its entirety is the formula for disaster.
- PrettyPantherposted 4 years ago0
I cannot shake Trump's complete lack of empathy for the over 500 children who were taken from their parents and cannot be reunited because of the administration's incompetence.
The funny thing, to me, was that it was liberal outcry that caused it in the first place! Better to be in a "cage" (setting aside the negative connotations of the word) that Obama built to contain illegal aliens than separated and sent all over the country, yet that was what was demanded by liberals.
And I found Biden's comment that, if set free, they all come back to face the music to be an outright lie.Have you actually researched how those facilities were used during the Obama administration? Either you haven't, or you are pretending they were used in the same inhumane manner as during this administration.
However, none of that changes the cruelty endured by these children and Trump's utter lack of empathy for them.You refer to the same "cruelty" we subject American children to when their parents are caught committing a crime. I don't necessarily see that as a bad thing; rather it is far better than incarcerating children with their parents. The best of all possible responses.
The big difference, it seems, is that you would turn children and their "parents" (or people that claim to be their parents) free to roam the country for as long as we can't find them. I won't, feeling that such an action actively encourages more of the same, exacerbating the problem rather than solving it.
Plus, of course, you will assign a "utter lack of empathy for them" to Trump, without ever knowing how he feels about what has happened, while I won't do that either.Most of them are families who cane to the border seeking asylum, not criminals.
And you think Trump displays empathy just like he doesn't display racism.Some of them came because someone, in a political ploy, convinced them they could get asylum although that someone knew full well it wasn't going to happen. Even then, though, it is a small minority that seek asylum; asylum seekers do not sneak across in the dead of night and and take great pains to avoid any authority.
But asylum "seekers" or not I don't see us as having any kind of moral obligation to simply open the country to anyone that produces the magic word "asylum".
Didn't say he displayed empathy. Just said that you don't know how he feels - joy that he hurt children, tears because the system lost some or doesn't care because they are criminals. You made the call all by yourself because you don't see any emotion, but of course anyone with his background (acting, politics, business) will be truly expert at hiding it.You and I have discussed this ad nauseum.
They're going about this all wrong.
Punish those who hire illegal immigrants and the problem will be solved. No jobs, no illegal immigration. People come here because they can get work at a much higher rate of pay than in their own countries.
But why do they not punish the businesses? Because the businesses pay the politicians.Right with you all the way. But, perhaps to finish the story, I caught that Biden will once more grant amnesty and make some 11 million illegal aliens into citizens; once more add to the fire and encourage more of the same.
We don't seem to learn, do we?He talked about a path to citizenship, which doesn't automatically mean they all become citizens. However, you are right, we cannot encourage illegal behavior by continuously granting amnesty.
A better approach is to grant the amnesty for those who are gainfully employed, but also put a deadline on it, after which time, no more amnesty for some number of years. Then study how it all works.
Your "cannot be reunited" might not be entirely accurate. I say "might not" because I heard this blurb on Fox News, and I haven't checked to see if it was true, but . . . One pundit says that over 400 families/parents have been found—in their home countries, they were deported and did not want their kids returned to their home country, they wanted them to stay in the U.S.
I think I can believe this because if I were in their shoes I would want my kids to stay in the safe country I risked everything to get them to also.
Maybe this reunification isn't due to the administration's incompetence in doing the reuniting?
GA
I saw the debate and I thought Biden was a shade behind Trump. Frankly, both looked a little uninspiring, and that I would say it's not good for the American state. China is a factor but it appears both does not know how they are going to deal with it. Biden was vice president for eight years and I don't think he did anything significant during that period may be because the Constitution doesn't give much power to a VP. Trump was doing fine till the China virus took him down. Biden leads in the opinion polls but so did Hillary so nothing can be said is cut and dried.
I also found Biden's desire to give clemency and citizenship, again, to 11 million illegal aliens to be beyond the pale. This has been done over and over, with the inevitable result that it encourages more to come.
What is it they say about "doing the same thing again and expecting a different result"? Insanity?
One of the biggest reasons we have the problem is because we failed in that past, and Biden wants to repeat the same mistake!If you will fail Trump this time we will call him to India. We need to Make India Great Again.
How much credit did Obama receive for the arms control with Iran which I believed was far more prickly and delicate an accomplishment?
GA, as you say half a loaf is better than none. But listening to conservative criticize Obama's agreement reveals a partisanship as to whose Middle East's diplomacy is the more worthy of attention.This sounds like more "Well, they did it first, so I will repeat it.".
Am I wrong? Do you give Trump a good deal of credit for (again) accomplishing what others could not do for decades, for (hopefully) beginning the end of centuries of conflict and fighting in the Middle East? Or do you refuse credit because you perceive that your choice of Presidents did not get the credit he deserved?I do, once I see what was done, give him credit, your point is well received. I have just seen bigger challenges and better outcomes.
Oops. I essentially repeated your thoughts. But at least it was unintentional—I hadn't seen your reply yet. ;-)
GA
I see. 'They did it first so it's okay for me to do it now. Regardless of what the "it" is.'
They diminished and criticized Pres. Obama so now you must do the same and criticize and diminish Pres. Trump.
GA
While there may not be irrefutable proof of Trump being directly involved in wrongdoing,
there is a standard whereby the behavior and actions of the President of the United States should be exemplary and as such there should not even be the appearance of impropriety on his part.
A let's face it, there is great deal of "appearance".Are you aware of Hunter Biden's partner stepping up with his account of Joe Biden being part of his family's cashing in on his career? Tony Bobulinski has provided his documents as well as laptops, and cell phones to the FBI at their request. He gave an hour interview on Fox, and they played taped recordings of Bobulinski and Biden family operatives begging him to stay quiet and claiming Bobulinski's revelations will "bury" the reputations of everyone involved in Hunter's overseas deals.' He provided emails sent to him that gave clear evidence of his association with the Biden's. His accusations are first-hand accounts of how he met with Joe Biden as well as his brother. He has hundreds of email, texts as well as phone calls with Hunter and his partners.
In regard to Trump, he has been charged with no wrongdoing, there has never been any form of firsthand evidence of wrongdoing, only second-hand opinions, nothing factual. Biden now has a whistleblower that has presented firsthand evidence of wrongdoing on Joe's part. He has put it out there, and the FBI has met with him. In my view, Biden is a crook and lies with ease. I have faith in the FBI, and believe they will investigate Mr. Bobulinski's accusations. As a whistleblower, he deserves to be heard.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zLfBRgeFFoNo serious journalist will touch this story. I've tried to follow it a bit and what's crazy is that what's in the so-called documentation doesn't even support the accusations being made.
Even Fox News won't deal with this garbage.
You really have to be hard up to refer to this stuff. Where's the attorney general? Even he won't touch it. Trump can start an investigation. Why hasn't he? He just wants to refer to some made up stuff, like everything else he does. Accusations with no proof. Like mail-in voting fraud. No proof. Just accusations.
What happened to Obamagate? Two years of accusations that just fizzled and died. What happened to Benghazi? What happened to "lock her up"? Where's the healthcare plan?
All rhetoric with nothing to support it.So, it would appear you do not offer any respect to the whistleblower that has stepped up and has taken his claim to the FBI. It will then be up to the FBI to pass it on to the DOJ. All the documentation he offered was emailed he was sent, not emails he had sent. Plus, Fox played recordings he provided. The FBI is investigating Hunter. And at this point with Bobulinski's accusations, Joe is now knee-deep. As of 16 hours, ago many very credible outlets are reporting on the story.
This has nothing to do with Trump? No need to deflect to Trump.
Trump is not the person that has stepped up with evidence of corruption, that would be a citizen by the name of Tony Bobulinski. He has a face, a name, and some pretty horrible accusations. and he is willing to stand behind his accusations with documentation. Physical evidence which is the worst kind for any crook... Not hearsay, just factual documents.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video … ering.html
https://abc3340.com/news/nation-world/t … can-people
https://nypost.com/2020/10/29/fbi-inves … ns-report/
https://abc3340.com/news/nation-world/t … can-people
https://www.nationalreview.com/news/hun … stigation/
"You really have to be hard up to refer to this stuff."
This is actually funny, after four years of seeing comments here on HP in regard to every kind of accusations aimed at Trump, none of which ever had a bit of actual evidence to substantiate the claims. You find it "hard up" to point out Tony Bobulinski?
I would think anyone that could dismiss Mr. Bobulinski's accusations is very much unreasonable. This man came forward as a whistleblower, he Identified himself and shared his truth. We as American's should listen and be willing to appreciate his gesture. The FBI will sort out his evidence, and if need be call on the DOJ to indite anyone that may have broken the law.
In my view, the documents provided speak for themselves. Hunter and his dad are crooked, and it appears they have been for many years. Again just my view... I think the facts thus far speak loudly. And, as of a few hours ago, now that we know the FBI has been investigating Hunter, it's just a matter of time media will be forced to cover the story. And actually who cares... The FBI will do their job.What happened to the biggest crime of the century, Obamagate?
Which of the accusations against Trump had no evidence? They all had substantial amounts of evidence.
I'm sure the FBI will do their job and like Obamagate and all the other "crimes of the century" will come up with nothing.
The FBI probe has been open since 2019. They apparently haven't found anything yet. What's taking so long?
https://www.politifact.com/article/2020 … explainer/
The "evidence" shows the opposite of what you're saying - Joe Biden had not role in the company. The Wall St. Journal reviewed the documents and found they did not support the allegations.
It's already been shown that the Trump campaign is doctoring video footage of Biden to make it look like he did this and that. How exactly can a rational person believe anything they say or do? Apparently, Biden endorsed Trump. Apparently, Biden fell asleep during some interview. Apparently he used a teleprompter.
The reason this isn't a story for reputable publications is that nobody can independently verify the claims. Yet, you've concluded that Biden is crooked based on one guy's accusations and evidence that doesn't even show what he says it shows. We also know that the story comes courtesy of Steven Bannon and Rudy Giuliani, the same Giuliani who we know visited Ukraine to dig up dirt on Biden. Then there's the FBI, who's been investigating this for two years now and doesn't seem to have anything.
I guess you can believe what you want to believe, but the evidence is pretty thin, the sources are highly questionable, and nobody can seem to find evidence of any wrongdoing. Seems that everyone who has looked into has exonerated Biden, but you've drawn another conclusion based solely on what you want to believe.Rather than reply, I have posted a new thread on the subject. It is now being reported as of about 16 hours ago due to the FBI admitting there is an open investigation into Hunter and his partners which lists Tony Bobulinski as a material witness.
I think we agree that it will depend on the FBI to pursue the accusations of Bobulinski. Bobulinski has a very good reputation, I would feel he appears honest. The evidence he presented was the email that he received, not the ones he sent. They contained breakdowns of how amounts of money would be divided, and where the cash was coming from... Seems these money trails will prove their downfall. It is very hard to hide money.These are allegations that cannot be verified by any independent source. If the Wall St. Journal reviewed the evidence and said there was nothing there, then it's most likely completely bogus.
It doesn't seem like the outcome of the FBI investigation makes any difference to you since you've already concluded that Biden is crooked.I have cone to the conclusion after assessing the information he presented, and Fox as well the New York Post verified the two most important emails via email chain.
They did not verify them. No other newspaper has independently verified the information. That's usually a standard. The Post is owned by a right-wing Trump supporter and they're serving up news delivered to them by Giuliani via Steve Bannon. That's truth to you? Okay.
A Senate committee has verified the Bobulinski information. Perhaps you missed recent reports in regard to Bobulinski's info is verified. I certainly don't agree with you in regard to the Post being a right-wing news outlet. At any rate, the Bobulinski information has been verified. Bobukinski will testify under oath before the Senate committee just after the election. I posted this thread to hopefully have a look at the alligations of whistleblower Mr. Bobulinski. It would seem due to his openness in his hour-long interview, that Mr. B stepped up for no other reason but to tell the truth about wrongdoing on the part of the Biden family. I have added links in regards to the verification of Mr. B's information. I would not think Senator Johnson would lie. I would not think Mr. B would lie under oath when questioned by the Senate.
Oct 28, 2020
"A Senate committee has verified all of the materials that it reviewed so far from Tony Bobulinksi, the former business partner of Hunter Biden who has accused the Biden family of being "compromised."
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news … far-report
Oct 29, --- https://www.lawenforcementtoday.com/doj … committee/
https://nypost.com/2020/10/28/senate-co … far-legit/
https://disrn.com/news/senate-committee … bobulinski
Ha! That's a good way of putting it. And timely too. I recently watched an episode of National Geographic's The Decades series. It was about the 80s and focused on Pres. Reagan and the Berlin Wall. I bet you can guess where I would go from here . . . ;-)
GAA standard? Impossible given that some will spin and twist anything into an "appearance of impropriety". And have done so since the election of '16.
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