see this Market watch article for background:
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/trump … 2020-04-13
I think that Trump again is out of bounds, making demands that State Governors "open" the economies of their respective states regardless of each Governor's responsibility for the safety of his or her residents. What chapter and verse of the Constitution is Trump referencing to assume this authority which steps upon the principle of State rights that Republicans and Conservatives beat progressive thinkers over the head with all of the time?
So, what do you think, please?
I haven't checked into this, other than your link and similar news blurbs, but I would guess that if there was any basis for his claim that it would have to come from something to do with a National Emergency declaration.
I am sure there will be some Constitutional experts that will explain it all for us, ;-)
GA, somewhere there is a tie in with provisions in the Constitution that address interstate commerce.
But, what is there is beyond what can be addressed within the scope of the threat and I mean threat from Trump claiming that he has an "authority" that he does not, in fact, have.
Is it a form of intimidation? Is it a bluff?
He speaks of voluntary but expressly states that this power to have states open when and where is within the scope of his authority. Which implies that he can do it without the cooperation of the Governors. Did you pick that up?
I think he did make that implication, and I'm with you that I'm not sure at all that he has that authority.
But you claimed he used that implied authority, which he emphatically did not. Instead he made it abundantly clear that he is leaving the decision up to governors and more local authorities.
Yes, I heard it the same way. I am glad that he has backed off of that rhetoric.
I think Trump is a bloviating fool who says a lot of things to make his base happy, knowing full well that they are not true.
My take on it is that, all along, Trump has wanted the Governors to make the hard decisions so he can blame them for the damage to the economy. Now, he is trying to make it seem that he wants the country to "open" knowing full well that states governed by rational, responsible leaders will progress as they see fit. He will, as usual, take credit for any successes and blame the Governors for the stalled economy.
Panther, I just think that it is dumb to needlessly stir up a hornets nest before having done your homework regarding how you would properly address the problem. Is it no wonder why Trump has so much trouble with the press all of the time?
So in other words... he will act like any other political hack in DC.
I have a question. Where does the money come from that the government uses to provide services? I believe it comes from taxes. Guess who pay taxes? Corporations and working people.
Money doesn't just happen. It has to be created. We have no choice but to do what is necessary to open up the economy. What is going to happen when the money runs out? It will run out.
Everything must be done to open up the economies of every state.
Dying of a virus or not being able to pay bills or have a government that can afford to provide services? What is the most favorable option?
Think about it.
We "ran out of money" when the first stimulus check went out. The US simply does not have a trillion dollars sitting around, either in banks or Ft. Knox.
Death and disability trumps all of that, Mike. Are you willing to sacrifice yourself on the altar of capitalism?
We are all interested in having things return to normal, Mike. But being irresponsible and exacerbating a problem is just going to keep more people out longer. The responsibility and the risk of opening belongs to the state governments and the governors who are in the best position to make the call over Trump's babbling in Washington, where he will shirk responsibility if he can for any adverse outcome.
That is my opinion, open as soon as possible but make sure homework is done prior to that.
Trump has no authority to violate states' rights. Even if he did force people out into the streets or back to work, the epidemic would just not go away because he wants it to.
Each governor has the responsibility to protect their state citizens. This is what the Metro area governors had to do when terrorists attacked on 9/11.
If Trump is so hot for it all to return to normal, why isn't his son Barron, Melania, Ivanka, Don Jr., Eric and Tiffany all out shopping in public? Special privileges to be the only ones protected from infection?
Trump needs to put his family out in public. Let's see them resuming their jobs.
Some individual states are facing lawsuits to reopen. It appears it matters little if Trump steps in, citizens are taking their complaints to their states Supreme courts. It would appear Trump has no authority to reopen states without the Fed Gov bringing court actions to each state in question. With the aid of the Wisconsin Supreme Court, the people of Wisconsin totally reopened their state. Hopefully, Michigan Supreme Court will soon do the same.
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/05/1 … ges-261428
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/05/1 … ges-261428
Yes, I am aware of "which" states. In a way, I am hoping Trump does interfere with states rights. That will force the Confederacy to realize HE, not their states, has all the authority. Just like any tyrant dictator.
But, that may be great for red states who love a dictatorship. Dem states will never allow Trump to DARE to use his boys on the Supreme Court to overturn the 10th Amendment which gives states rights EQUAL to the federal branches of government.
Who cares about WI? That's Paul Ryan's pathetic cheese state. WI has nothing of real value because even though it's a moocher state that lives off Dem state tax dollars, they still whine and cry poverty.
Our Eastern state governors are accurately and precisely using scientific data, something all Republicans most of who are so under-educated they speak COVFEFE language, are already reopening SAFELY our parks and beaches in the NY/NJ Metro area.
No AK-47s, no alQaeda dressed Boogaloo Bois and thanks to our following stay at home restrictions, we are seeing a drop in the number of infections.
We in the north have the very best, most highly educated governors know how to protect those at high risk of infection.
Who cares if dumb cheeseheads in WI want to kill each other off? That's less of them to vote for Trump.
Plus, now that Dr Trumpenstein is a drug pusher of HCLq as a vaccine, which it is not, we now have a drug dealer in the White House.
It is far too late now for Republicans and Trump to try and recoup the loss of public trust. If people in their states don't care how their tax dollars are spent, we in Dem states do.
The US Constitution is clear on how our tax dollars should be spent. As I've posted in the past, the Rockefeller Institute for Government reported in May 2013 that in a thorough study of which states take the most from the federal tax revenues and which get the least, every red state gets more than $1.50 in return for a $1 they pay in taxes.
Dem states get an average of 79 cents for that same $1. It's time to cut off federal funding to these moocher states.
Why should Dem states be the sole support of states like WI who can afford AK-47s and then blame everyone else for their poverty? Why should our Dem states pay federal taxes for fossil fuels that increase our taxes to cope with the red state pollution and oil, fracking and coal disasters? Our states live in 2020. Not 1939.
Is that how they spend federal tax dollars?
Ewent, this is unfortunate as Wisconsin and Michigan have been reliably in the Democratic column in regards to Presidential contests until the aberration of 2016.
Wisconsin has an annoying GOP dominated legislative branch that along with the rightwing stacked courts have thwarted the initiatives of the Democrat Governor of the state, ever since the notorious former Governor Scott Walker was defeated by a Democrat.
Republicans do what they always do, neutralize the will of the majority in preference of the privileged few, knowing that their policies would never prevail in a fair contest.
They know that they will lose demographically in time so they have to pull all stops to lock in fascism and authoritarianism in a way that will be difficult to remove even when the vast majority of voters say otherwise.
But, again, what do I know? I am a stranger in a strange land: a West Coast liberal living on the East Coast.
I loathe ideology. To me it is nothing more than a crutch to try and control others. I am not controllable. I'm an adult and I can do that just fine all by myself.
That was the reason I left the Republican Party after 33 years. I saw in 2004, that party was designing a plan of authoritarianism I found a violation of my rights.
I am not a feminist. Mainly because I've been outnumbered my entire life by men and have picked up some pretty handy hints on how to take down anyone who thinks I am a delicate flower of womanhood, petite as I am.
Maybe it was 5 brothers and half brothers, 11 nephews, 1 ex, 2 sons, more than 2 dozens salemen, a dozen chemists, a half dozen accountants and 15 engineers of varying college degrees that taught me how to think like a man but look like Betty Boop. (So I am told)
I left the GOP in 2004 because it was bent on the premise that conservatism means controlling my tax dollars. Not according to the US Constitution.
I found Cheney to be a loathesome cretin whose lust to be in the White House got him no support in 1994 from his own party. So they rigged up a smear campaign against Clinton. Can you imagine?
Bill Clinton being on a level with the King of Sexual Molesting in the WH now? rofl.
I love that poem on the Statue of Liberty, "The New Colossus," by Emma Lazarus. "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore..."
So if that makes me a liberal so be it.
But, if protesting $350 million being spent on golf weekends by the current lump of sleaze in the White House makes me a conservative, so be it. I have a vested interest in how and where my tax dollars are spent. It's called the U.S. Constitution.
There isn't a way for Trump to neutralize his handling of the Corona virus. The US now leads the world in over 1 million infections.
The only people who vote for or support Trump are people who want crime legalized.
"I left the GOP in 2004 because it was bent on the premise that conservatism means controlling my tax dollars. Not according to the US Constitution."
I thought I was reasonably familiar with our Constitution, but am unable to find anything that says conservatives cannot "control your tax dollars". Can you point me to the right section where it discusses how tax dollars are spent and who determines what they are spent on?
You talk a lot about the Dem states. It's the Dem states that are a burden, and always begging for Federal cash.
Hard to take you seriously after I read this statement (Who cares about WI? That's Paul Ryan's pathetic cheese state. WI has nothing of real value because even though it's a moocher state that lives off Dem state tax dollars, they still whine and cry poverty) I could see you have a very negative odd thought process.
I think they should be opened up, I think the obviousness of our over-reaction to this virus should be evident to all.
We went from building emergency hospitals and having military hospital ships parked at NY City.... and essentially using none of it.
My wife is a nurse, I have heard plenty from other nurses, while there are a select few who suffer greatly from this virus, the overwhelming majority of people have symptoms that are more minor than when they get the flu.
The more testing they do, the more people they are finding with antibodies that never even knew they had been sick with the virus.
That aside... the ongoing shutdowns and 40 million unemployed are going to have the desired effect you were most hoping for Credence.
This will kill the Republicans off... because they are too ignorant, too short-sighted and too arrogant not to give the people $2,000 a month for four or six months.
As much as I dislike Pelosi, Waters, and the rest of their two-faced ilk, I realize they will play this up, and the Republicans walk right into the trap.
Republicans could have scraped the SBA Loans, the extra-$$$ for unemployed, the non-citizen benefits, the pet projects the Democrats put in... all they had to do was OK the $2,000 per taxpayer stimulus and they would have SAVED the economy for the next 6 months and SAVED most people from losing homes, cars, etc. and they would have dominated the elections in November.
Instead they will be crushed come November.
Such stupidity deserves no less, even if ultimately the American people may suffer irreparable harm and loss of liberties when the Democrats sweep and control the House, Senate and Presidency.
This is not just another flu, death tolls all over the globe would say otherwise.
The desired effect is not what I want, Ken. For the most part those people being forced back to work are essential workers that generally are not GOP. The bougie GOP making demands to reopen are working at home on laptop computers, well out of harms way.
I don't think we can afford the proposal of giving people $2,000.00 a head over several months and if we did, the payback required for the federal coffers may be a hardship in itself. I can see one more stimulus payment at the most.
Look at the meat packing plants in the Midwest where the infections and subsequent deaths are out of control, McConnell want to indemnify these companies in regards to potential lawsuits by employees without any consideration as to how these companies are taking effort to provide workers a safe workspace.
Well, I fear the GOP and their fascist and authoritarian tendencies far more than I do a Democrat party controlled Washington.
"The bougie GOP making demands to reopen are working at home on laptop computers, well out of harms way."
It would be interesting to see you try to support that statement.
"McConnell want to indemnify these companies in regards to potential lawsuits by employees without any consideration as to how these companies are taking effort to provide workers a safe workspace."
Have you seen some of the news presentations of what these companies have tried to do to mitigate the potential infection opportunities? If you were a company owner and were liable to lawsuits—regardless of the protective measures you took, would you reopen your business?
For example, I saw one clip about a Ford plant that had placed plexiglass divider shields between seats at a four-person break table. Each seated worker had a plexiglass barrier between themselves and their tablemates. That same plant also implemented visibly demarcated social distancing standards on their production line. Facemasks were provided and sanitizer stations were everywhere. Would you reopen that plant if you were liable for any infection that subsequently occurred?
If it cannot be determined that a worker got infected at work, and not in someway outside of the work environment—leaving you liable to a lawsuit, would you reopen that plant?
Yet, according to your logic, it is all the fault of the "bougie GOP."
Geesh bud, I don't envy the effort you must make to justify such a perspective.
Your generalization of "Fascist and authoritarian tendencies" pretty much describes your mindset of generalities—regardless of the issue.
So, let's get specific, I know righties consider the New York Times a leftist rag, but they say that about virtually all mainstream media and have no credibility with me. So, here is some of my "support".
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/27/busi … ality.html
I like the article and it brings my "generalities" into a crystal clear focus. It focuses on the big picture while so many righties treat exceptions as if they are the rule.
I am not saying that the companies are or are not not making needed changes in their workspace, I just don't hear McConnell making these needed adjustments a prerequisite before just handing out blanket indemnification for businesses. It is fine as long as the companies and employers do their part.
Yes, I would reopen the Ford plant under the conditions that you described that is in compliance with new Coronavirus health and safety regulations imposed by the state as a minimum. As long as they meet the standards, they qualify for indemnification. But companies get no relief I f they are negligent or are deliberately in violation with municipal/state ordinances. No more than a public restaurant is allowed to stay open and can avoid trouble if they are in violation of public health and safety regulations.
Trump is in charge and he has touched on the unpleasant themes that I have mentioned more than any other President within my lifetime and with virtually all GOP supporting him regardless of that. So, I compromise, I will remove the word "fascist", but I will stick with "authoritarian". "A new and different kind of leader", my arse......
I say recognizing the "big picture" is more than focusing on generalities.
Regarding your 'business indemnity' point, I agree with you that the "blanket" must include negligence exceptions. It is the general concept of indemnity from reasonably uncontrollable circumstances that I support.
However, regarding the point about who are the folks that can safely work from home, I still say it is not the GOP voter that leads the category.
From your link:
'. . . with workers who are college-educated, relatively affluent and primarily white able to continue working from home and minimizing outdoor excursions to reduce the risk of contracting the virus."
I recall this being exactly the opposite of the description the Left generally ascribes to Republican, (Trump), voters.
334,597 worldwide deaths (I trust this to be 100% accurate and ONLY virus related like I trust Trump to stop tweeting for life)
Study Finds Flu Kills 646,000 People Worldwide Each Year
A second round of stimulus checks @ $2,000 would cost 3 trillion for six months if delegated out as the last stimulus was.
The Fed has directed 4 Trillion to prop up corporations and institutions which in turn propped up the stock market and their bank accounts.
That was from the last stimulus deal, you hear only about the 2 trillion that went to various pet projects, the people ($1,200) and the SBA... there was an additional 4 Trillion set aside for the Too-Rich-to-Fail.
So... I suspect not only could we afford it, but that would do a heck of a lot more to save the economy and help the people than the 4 Trillion that went to corporations, banks, and investment firms.
I'd like to see some verifiable proof of that, not just some blabbering from the idiots on CNN and their like.
https://www.healthline.com/health-news/ … nt-the-flu
I have no reason to doubt the veracity of the source which explains the increased risk, danger and mortality of this pandemic. I have been around through several flu seasons and I have never yet seen the entire nation under the mask. I don't buy the idea that this has been exaggerated .
As for the possibility of further stimulus, you can thank the GOP Senate for pulling the wet blanket over it all.
It is late, I will get the stories, but this stuff is all over.
Of course it is exaggerated. and that was understandably necessary because no-one was sure how bad it would be and they needed time to prepare hospitals and do more research.
But we are beyond that point now.
The numbers I provided above correlate with a bad year of the flu. And that is with EMPHASIS being put on hospitals to report anyone who dies that tested positive for the virus to be designated a corona death.
Until this outbreak, I never knew so many died from the flu each year, and I never knew that despite it being around for 100 years, we still have no cure for it, as it always is mutating... vaccines are less than 10% effective.
Considering that flu vaccines aren't terribly effective for protecting against the flu, what chances are there that they will come up with a vaccine that is substantially more effective than what they have for the flu?
I think its time we just deal with the fact that up to a million people a year are going to die from this virus and get on with our lives. While we still have lives to get back to.
Just like we deal with 1.35 million people dying in auto accidents each year globally.
Just like we deal with Cardiovascular diseases (CVDs) killi9ng 18 million people a year globally.
Just like we deal with more than half-a-million people dying from the flu most years.
Additional precautionary measures are fine... but end the stay-at-home and other BS security-state measures.
Ken, I agree with almost everything you said. However, I had the opportunity to have conversations with some physicians and other RN while I did some volunteer work a few weeks ago. (Not fun, returning to Nursing at this juncture). It seems that here in Michigan as across the country persons that had one symptom of COVID were counted in the death toll. My titer came back positive for COVID. I am not sure when I might have had it. The only time I was slightly ill was in Nov. I think if more people were tested we would see lot of people have had it.
Plus, the Doc's I spoke agreed with my belief that we have a large herd in our population, due to so many having COVID yet having little to no symptoms.
Also many were being hospitalized early on with non-serious symptoms due to the thought better safe than sorry being applied. Now in Michigan we have an increased testing ability, still having some cases but few hospitalizations.
So, if we have a good size herd that has had COVID, we may not see as many cases this fall, and even less the following fall. By then, I would think a vaccine will be available, and then we may see many do an about-face, and not be willing to be vaccinated. I hope we have a huge herd and far fewer cases in the fall. This might work to calm the general public down a bit.
"So... I suspect not only could we afford it, but that would do a heck of a lot more to save the economy and help the people than the 4 Trillion that went to corporations, banks, and investment firms."
Republicans are only concerned about this group, Ken, the people be damned and I think that we both know why corporations, banks and investment firms are given Carte Blanche to the treasury.
Republicans will go into their bags of dirty tricks to garnish votes for the fall that they otherwise have not earned, economic recovery or no.
So, who gets to walk into the Covid19 buzz saw, Ken? Are you willing to enter the lion's den and sacrifice yourself on the altar or capitalism and American exceptionalism? We can easily dismiss the verdict of death for others, are we going to do it so willingly when we knowingly put ourselves and families at preventable risk? Do you dispense with the idea of testing, social distance cautioning and just take Trump's command to "go to church" this weekend?
Death, as a concept is not preventable over a large number of people over extended time, but are you willing the take the hemlock, drink the "kool aid" or chlorine bleach, or would you consign that role to someone else?
Never took a day away from "the lion's den" Credence... never been one to be afraid of being on the frontlines. Been there most of my adult life in one form or another, and at least that has afforded me the opportunity to live life and see the world for what it is.
My wife has been laid up all week with this virus, just had X-rays today, they confirmed her lungs are... in an advanced state of distress.
She's a nurse, those working in the hospitals are exposed to this daily.
Where I work, its almost as bad, and neither the hospital nor where I work will be shutting down, unless the world comes to an end.
Hiding away in your home isn't living... if you aren't being productive, if you aren't serving a purpose or having a positive impact on others what use are you?
The mentality that it is a right to sit around all day doing nothing of value, and being rewarded with a home, income, and food is a Western Society one... I don't support it, and I don't care for those who partake in it.
A society that is not productive is one that is not going to remain relevant for long.
Ken, another interesting coincidence, I am married to a retired nurse, who through years of service has worn herself down to the point of her having chronically poor health today. But, are they not special people, nurses?
All my hopes to you and your wife for a positive outcome for this dilemma that you are currently struggling through. With "my" nurse afflicted with spinal meningitis, asthma and diabetes, exposure to this virus could prove fatal. So, I have to be very careful that I don't bring "hitch hikers" home. We both are "senior citizens to top that off.
You have an awe inspiring attitude regarding life, but many of us cannot afford to take so magnimous a stand.
We want that third alternative to either throwing caution to the wind open the economy and allowing the virus to ravage this society without any controls OR strangle ourselves and our livelihoods by shutting down all economic activity.
Testing and masks are still important and the economy can be reopened in stages, carefully. But just like the Tylenol scare during the early 1980's changes were made in packaging to address the crisis. I can now still get my Tylenol or Heinz ketchup but in a different manner. Such adjustments I foresee as the ultimate result of a properly applied "third alternative". Things will not be same after this.
There are many retirees that have paid their dues and earned the right to a little leisure in their final years, who would deny them that?
They are much appreciated. The situation has not improved for her, I am taking her for more tests tomorrow.
Neither I or my actions are either. I simply chose to see the world and live life when younger and much of that mentality still lingers with me today.
More than one person that I was close to in my early years passed away tragically and that leaves a mark. It ingrained in me the belief that one can live life, knowing tomorrow is not guaranteed, or one can live in fear of death, trying to avoid it as best one can.
I have been in this world far longer than I had ever imagined thirty years ago, now I try to put that cavalier attitude in check to build something I can pass onto my boys, while benefiting those around me, and even that I can't take much credit for, restore me to my twenties and I'd most likely find myself overseas again doing what I did so well.
That said, I appreciate your concerns and your wife's situation, I recognize how important it is for you not to put yourself in harms way of the virus.
Those who are retired and those who are most at risk should continue to self-quarantine as best they are able.
But the rest of us need to keep society running, keep the world moving, and be allowed to live life to the fullest ability, if one chooses to take the risks.
Agreed, we cannot stop living, we cannot stop working, but there must be more precautions, especially for those most at risk.
I am so sorry to hear your wife contracted COVID. As you said hospitals don't shut down, and those that work in them go to work, no matter what, never knowing what they will face on any given shift.
There is only one benefit from having had COVID, she will now have antibodies. I had to be tested when I volunteered to return to work. I naturally had both tests, I was negative for COVID, but had the antibodies. Hopefully, we will see a weaker strain in the fall, and we have a good herd under us. At any rate, we need to get back to our lives, I for one am not about to give up one bit of my freedom to enjoy this earth while I am on it.
Again so sorry about your wife...
In total agreement w/Sharlee. To those who have or tested positive for COVID-19, please take care of yourselves & get well soon.
Sharlee thank you, I am glad to see you back in the forums again.
Ten days in now, no concrete diagnosis. I am hoping we get it to turn but I am concerned hospitalization may be necessary soon.
Ken, I am sad to hear your wife has not turned the corner as of yet. If your wife does require hospitalization, perhaps your wife might consider requesting some information on convalescent plasma. We are using it here at Ford Hospital, and having really good results.
Thoughts and prayers coming your way...
Totally agree with you Ken. The entire population didn't need to be quarantined. Schools didn't have to be closed. Restaurants didn't have to be closed. Businesses didn't have to be closed. This is beyond ridiculous & into insane. Just quarantine vulnerable populations, NOT EVERYONE!!!!! This stay at home security measure is beyond inane...……….And wearing masks....THAT IS RIDICULOUS!!!!!!! There is exaggerated panic because of COVID-19- the measures taken are so medieval...……..YES, MEDIEVAL...…...
I think you have grossly exaggerated and spun what he actually said. I listened and giggled as, over and over, he made it clear it would be up to individual states. He never stated, not even once, that he would try and force states to open; at most he left it unsaid what he would do if they opened earlier than he wanted or went too far too fast.
You are right, he didn't say he was going to force the governors to open their economies, but, he did repeatedly say he had the Constitutional authority to do so if he wanted.
I think the OP title was correct, but the wording of the first OP sentence went off the rails.
Pres. Trump seems to have backed off of his first inferences, so maybe it is a non-issue now. Other than as a club to beat him with if he was wrong.
"Pres. Trump seems to have backed off of his first inferences, so maybe it is a non-issue now. Other than as a club to beat him with if he was wrong."
I agree, except it never was an issue - not a single sane person thinks Trump was ever going to send in the National Guard, or the FBI, to forcibly open a factory. Other than that club, anyway - it's easily spun into another lie by Trump.
Either way, I don't know that he has the authority to force states (and businesses) to open up...but I'm not nearly so confident that he does not have the authority to close them. Don't know, but suspect that he might have that authority under some rule or another. For instance, I think states banning travelers from other states, or even quarantining them, runs afoul of the Constitution - does that qualify as "open up"?
Wilderness, this is an excerpt from the National Review and I know that you and other Rightwinger oriented folks read it:
Our elected leaders confront the difficult decision on when to start lifting the lockdowns, even at the risk of a faster spread of COVID-19. Presiding Trump claims that he has the right to determine when businesses open their doors, employees return to work, and consumers shop again. “For the purpose of creating conflict and confusion, some in the Fake News Media are saying that it is the Governors decision to open up the states, not that of the President of the United States & the Federal Government,” he tweeted earlier today. “Let it be fully understood that this is incorrect . . . It is the decision of the President, and for many good reasons.”
But the federal government does not have that power. The Constitution’s grant of limited, enumerated powers to the national government does not include the right to regulate either public health or all business in the land. Congress enjoys the authority to “regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States.” This gives Washington, D.C. an important, yet supporting, role in confronting the pandemic. It can bar those who might be infected from entering the United States or traveling across interstate borders, reduce air and road traffic, and even isolate whole states.
But our federal system reserves the leading role over public health to state governors. States possess the “police power” to regulate virtually all activity within their borders. As the Supreme Court has recognized, safeguarding public health and safety presents the most compelling use of state power. Only the states can impose quarantines, close institutions and businesses, and limit intra-state travel. Democratic governors Gavin Newsom in California, Andrew Cuomo in New York, and J.B. Pritzker Illinois imposed their states’ lockdowns, and only they will decide when the draconian policies will end.
It would have been smart for President Trump to have done his homework prior to releasing erroneous and confusing statements in regards to what his "authority" actually is regarding having Governors open the economy. Does that make sense to you?
From your own OP: "I think that Trump again is out of bounds, making demands that State Governors "open" the economies of their respective states regardless of each Governor's responsibility for the safety of his or her residents."
Unfortunately, and as I plainly stated, Trump did no such thing. You claim he did (see preceding quotation) but the claim is false.
And that is all I said; I did not address whether Trump said he had the power or whether he actually does. Only that he did not say or do what you claimed he did.
It would be nice if he wasn't constantly taken out of context as well, he makes enough gaffs, there are those in the media that create some where none exist.
Its absolutely astounding where we are at... "Trump is wrong, Trump doesn't know what he is doing... ...we are going to vote him out in November and elect Biden!"
Dementia Joe to the rescue!
Ken, there no mistaking what Trump said, how could a direct statement on his part be taken out of context?
The man needs to learn that words matter, and to more carefully apply a sieve to his own before he speaks at a public forum.
Maybe Biden might be smart enough to surround himself with advisors that he would actually listen to.
I have always disdained the way Trump tweets, and blerts things out, and attacks people.
But I also recognize it is why most of the 40% of Americans rock solidly support him almost no matter what happens or what he does. Because he attacks the likes of Pelosi and other 'elites' the way he does, because he always talks about America first, etc. etc. you know his schtick.
It is his uncouth manner that makes him candy "for the masses".
And then the rest of those who support him, as I did, do so because the alternative is worse. It was that simple in 2016 and it will be that simple in 2020.
40% are with him no matter what. 40% are probably going to vote against him no matter what. And then there is the 20% that will take the time to reasonably consider the two options, and then choose what they think is best for them (and by extension the Country).
And you know, I flat out reject Biden, always have, always will. And this was before I knew the man was senile.
What the hell is this?
Donald J. Trump
LIBERATE VIRGINIA, and save your great 2nd Amendment. It is under siege!
Donald J. Trump
Donald J. Trump
It is Trump playing election politics. Kind of reminds you of the tons of pork Democrats wanted in the stimulus bill, doesn't it? Perhaps he's learning a little too well from the examples he's being shown.
A reaction to the last daily Trump broadcast. I thought then that it was mostly politics rather than the pandemic, beating his breast and condemning opponents, and said so to my wife.
Politicians using the pandemic to further their careers and goals. Whether Pelosi or Trump, it is disgusting beyond belief, but it is politics, American style, and Trump has learned from the best how to use every opportunity that comes his way.
I'm wondering who were the "best" he learned from, Dan?
Pelosi, probably. She is a master at turning everything into a play for Democrat programs - witness her incredible wish list for the stimulus program she advocated.
I thought you meant Epstein and Stone. Also, I've never heard you give some much credit to Nancy before.
Oh, I've always given her lots of credit...for being a masterful politician, enormously successful at manipulating people and growing her (and the party's) power.
They're just not things I appreciate, but they ARE things she is good at. Very good.
Once again Trump claimed he had the power to prevent Georgia from reopening Friday. Is he really that ignorant of the Constitution?
I haven't looked, and I bet you haven't either, so I will ask a counter-question: Are there really no presidential Constitutional powers that allow a president to overrule state actions?
In times of war there is, I think. But not in this situation. Besides, Trump can't make his mind up what he wants to do until he sees the polls.
Trump threw Kemp under the bus after putting out tweets invoking people to protest against the shutdown, Gus. You know this is true, don't you?
Yes, I do know that Pres. Trump is promoting reopening the economy, and yes I know that he has issues with the actions of Gov. Kemp.
What I don't know to be true is whether Gov. Kemp's actions are right or wrong—because I have nothing more than thoughts; as in no expertise.
For instance; it is my understanding that the virus is spread by 'droplets'—coughs, sneezes, etc. I haven't heard of it being spread by personal skin to skin contact. So, gyms seem wrong to me because of the sweat that would be encountered, but hairdressers—with proper masks and gloves, doesn't seem so bad.
The same goes for tattoo shops; because of the blood involved that seems like a bad idea to me—even with the use of masks and gloves. But reopening retail shops seem to be an okay idea to me.
The last thing that I know to be true is that our economy must be reopened and that I think it must be reopened in phases. I am just not expert enough to know what those phases should be.
"I am just not expert enough to know what those phases should be."
Trump doesn't either, but it doesn't prevent him from tweeting about "liberating" certain states, does it?
I guess since none of us has the knowledge or expertise to make these decisions, perhaps we should listen to those who do and hope our President and governors do, too.
Just a crazy thought.
From what I am hearing on the news we don't have any experts that know the answer either.
Assuming it is the medical experts we should rely on, all I have heard is that we need to do it carefully. Whatever that means.
I spoke earlier about disagreeing with gyms and tattoo parlors, but even though 'open space' and non-close contact choices seem to be okay, I still have no way of knowing for sure.
We are just going to have to take some risks.
If you were to speak with an attorney, they can tell you that federal law always supersedes state law. There is a long history of case law that proves this.
So why are some states ignoring marijuana laws?
The ones which legalized marijuana, Mike. You know it's still against the Federal laws, so why do the Feds put up with it if they have power over the states?
Ah, I knew you were going to mention this.
So, in these states a vote was held to make marijuana legal in their state. This is then their state law. So, marijuana is legal in those states. If people use marijuana on federal property in those states, they've broken federal law and can be prosecuted. This is because federal law supersedes state law. It's the same with gun laws. There have been some interesting cases involving people with certain weapons permitted in their state being prosecuted when they took them on federal land in those states.
AND, the federal government has not challenged the marijuana laws in those states either through federal court or the Supreme court. BUT, if there is a conflict in a court of law, the federal law will supersede the state law.
It's the same with gambling, Mike. I'd like to see the SCOTUS try to stop either business if the Feds tried. What are they going to do, use the military to arrest everyone who gambles, smokes and drinks?
How did prohibition work out for them?
I think your closing sentence is right Mike—federal law always supersedes state law, but I don't think you are right about those "Federal property" delineations. As I understand it marijuana is Federally illegal regardless of where the infraction takes place.
You don't have to smoke it in the courthouse to break Federal law. Smoking it in your own bathroom is just as illegal.
A Labradoodle breeder has been tapped to lead the Pandemic Task Force by the stable genius. You just can't make this shit up....
What a movie this will make in a few years. It will certainly be a tragicomedy for the ages.
Here is the study from the Rockefeller Institute of Government that proves your post is inaccurate: https://rockinst.org/news/article/new-y … he-nation/
And here is the other. https://rockinst.org/blog/who-are-the-g … -spending/
Every Republican state lives off Dem state funding. The Agri Industries of the Midwest have been getting tens of billions every year for more than 2 decades for insurance against crop failure.
This year Big Oil got more than $22 billion in federal funding. MS leads the pack in those who collect werlfare.
Sorry but Dems beg for what they paid. Red states got more than 90% of that Stimulus money. Wyoming which is a barely populated state got $408 million in stimulus money while California with the largest population in the country got $22 million.
Ref: https://money.com/stimulus-check-paymen … -by-state/
It is crucial when you post that you use valid sources for what you post. I get paid to write tech articles for HVAC and other tech clients. If I wrote their articles without valid proof, I wouldn't get paid.
One questions. Why is it the Dems states are in such bad shape financially, and why are they always asking the Fed gov for cash? It seems they do take in lots of tax dollars, but always broke... What happened in New Jersey with the pension fund?
A big part of the reason is so they can support illegal aliens. You don't see any sanctuary cities that are considered conservative, after all.
Heard a comment on the radio yesterday with California bragging that they have a rainy day fund, but that it isn't near enough to cover all the poor people in California (read: illegal aliens that the state wants to support with federal funding). So they need federal funds because they haven't saved enough to do the job.
I never will understand why the citizens put up with their tax dollars being spent so haphazardly. I guess they must truly support sanctuary cities and handing out cash to people that come into the country illegally. Then, as you said wanting bailouts from the Fed Gov.
Do you really want an answer to that?
13 donor states have the highest taxes in the country because we do not get more than 79 cents for every $1 we pay in federal taxes.
That means that our states have to constantly raise taxes to afford to pay for Republican moocher states and our own states needs.
Here is a report by Jonathan D. Salant of NJ Advance Media for NJ.com
WASHINGTON — When it comes to getting help from Washington, New Jersey is dead last.
That’s according to a new report from New York State Comptroller Thomas DiNapoli, who found that in the first year under President Donald Trump’s tax law, the Garden State received 79 cents for every $1 paid in federal taxes, lowest among the 50 states.
The NJ Pension Fund has been borrowed on for state needs for decades.
But now that is changing. Our NJ government realizes we cannot continue to hand a state like South Carolina $7.87 for every $1 they pay.
So the NJ government is holding back more and more of the federal taxes and earmarking it for state needs. This is allowed under the 10th Amendment.
CA and NY are also doing the same thing.
This means that Republican states will have to do what they have been forcing our states to do: raise Republican state taxes to pay for their states' needs.
If tomorrow CA was to secede from the union, it would be a country of its own. It has the 5th largest economy in the WORLD.
It is now time to put a stop to forcing donor states to work harder while the midwest sits out their winters warm and comfy. It is now time to stop forcing donor states to pay for oil spills we do not make. It is long past time for our donor states to cut funding to the Fed for the for profit wars, prison industry and fossil fuel industries that the south is so heavily invested in.
Money talks and BS walks.
NJ is No. 3 in states producing solar energy. But then, we don't spend our money on arsenals of WMDs.
Some truth here. Dem states, in general, are big in finance and other white collar workers (high paid) and manufacturing (again, high paid) while the red states are into national parks and forests, and farming (low paid so blue states get cheap food). That leaves blue states with the majority of the money, living off the efforts of the red states.
Likewise for stimulus money - the huge majority of jobs lost were low paid blue collar workers (red states) while the high paid white collar workers did their job from home - the result was that it was the red states that needed help to survive, paying the price for shutdown, while the blue state workers just kept working.
So because blue states are more advanced and open to progress and all the red states want is no changes, we should get only 79 cents for every $1 we pay in federal taxes?
Hate to inform you but there is no cheap food in blue states. How is $11/lb for a steak that comes from Big Beef Red states cheap? How is $6/lb for pork chops cheap?
NJ has its own dairies so we don't need any dairy products from red states and NJ is the vegetable capital of the country. We have enough farms to grow peaches, our world famous NJ Beefsteak tomatoes and there are lettuce and other veggie farms in Monmouth, Middlesex and South Jersey, which by the way, South Jersey is the where RED states get all their cranberries.
I can only tell you what is happening with blue collar workers here in NJ. Central Jersey is home to what we call, "a landport." There are over 30 miles of warehouses where pickers and packers, facility, logistics and a host of other blue collar workers are still busy shipping and receiving food goods. This also keeps truck drivers in business.
Our rail systems haul freight from factories in states north and south of us.
Red states pay dirt wages for one reason. Employers pocketing all the profits.
I know this because I got engineering accounting dumped on me and saw how employers take more than they give to employees.
Red state employers all have the archaic sharecropper mentalities. They pay their school teachers what we pay trash haulers here in NJ.
I don't buy excuses from red states who already get more than their fair share of federal tax dollars.
Education is the key to jobs. NJ knows that because when NJ lost 71% of its manufacturing in the 80s, it was solar energy that kept the jobs coming.
Every plumber, electrician, engineer and others had only to invest time into a study course to become a solar installer.
More so, once solar conversions became a regular energy source, that also reactivated manufacturing of solar panels. So we didn't need Chinese imports.
Red states are so obviously under educated that whenever I hear someone like Gohmert or King speak I wonder what on earth their universities teach besides religion.
NJ is home to Princeton, Rutgers, Fairleigh Dickinson and has several Ivy League prep schools like Wardlaw Hartridge.
NJ school taxes this year would fry most people's brains. They average around $4400.
But that is because NJ is one of the top 3 states for students who graduate with college degrees. So we pay our teacher close to 6 figures and know every dime we spend on education comes back to us 1000 fold.
NJ is home to Dow Jones, J&J, Colgate, Wyeth Ayerst to name a few and is now ranked No 1 in hi tech business along the Rt 1 Hi Tech highway.
If we were to continue to earmark more and more of our federal tax dollars for our state, we would be flush with revenue and could lower our taxes.
NJ knows Trump all too well. We ought to. We are paying off 6 Trump corporate bankruptcies he filed in order to pay that $10 million money laundering fine he received from the US Treasury after 3 warnings.
Then people ask why NJ taxes are so high?
With a Grifter like Trump?
I did not comment on the taxes that New Jersey pay as well as New York or Califonia.pay the federal Gov. I just pointed out they are poor at they are at running their states, and always in line for government funds. One would think the governors could do a better job with the citizen paying such high taxes.
6 states with the highest personal income tax rates
New Jersey 8.97%
District of Columbia 8.95%
I am happy to report that as a result of following medical advice, NY and NJ are beginning to lift restrictions due to a decrease in the number of infections.
I am thankful to our front line workers who gave up personal time and risked their own lives to help others. I am also proud of our young men and women who dutifully obeyed the governor's restrictions. It has paid off.
NY and NJ were 2 of the hardest hit states. So it is a ray of hope to realize there may be light at the end of this dark tunnel for those in our 2 states.
I am also appreciative and thankful for the businesses who remained open with new policies that kept all of us from having to ration foods and services.
Thanks to their American ingenuity, we saw no long lines or empty shelves. Store hours were arranged to accommodate the situation and the restrictions. These businesses deserve gold stars!
It is a tribute to these business people in NY and NJ who learned the fine art of always knowing their options even in the worst of times.
Overall I'm pleased with the response in Idaho as well. I don't see as many masks as I would like, but I approve of the gradual re-opening of businesses, and approve of the decisions as to which ones can open and which cannot. There will always be exceptions - businesses that re-open too early or don't take precautions, but the seem the exception rather than the rule.
I think the way schools managed to keep students from losing valuable time from their studies was pretty amazing.
Students, without realizing it, may be the catalyst for change in the way education is delivered in the US and elsewhere.
Students know if they can get most of their study work online and teachers can communicate with study via closed circuit computer networks, that is going to inevitably become a new wave in education.
I joked with a neighbor from across our front yards that with the kids out of schools, we should be getting huge discounts on our school taxes which are the highest in the country
Education, particularly K-12, is a sore point. IMO we (Idaho) waited too long to determine schools would remain closed and being the process of going online. That process should have been started much earlier - if it turned out unnecessary the work could have been discarded. Instead we suddenly found that a large percentage of students had no computer, no internet access, no parent pushing them to sign on and work, etc. Towards the end it was working fairly well, though still with some pretty big road bumps, but should have been much smoother. Or at least I think it should have, without knowing just was the problems were and what solutions were found.
I don't know if the Kawasaki Syndrome some NJ and NY kids who were infected with Covid was happening elsewhere.
But, this was reported about 3 weeks ago in Northern and Central NJ.
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