This is how change happens

Jump to Last Post 1-4 of 4 discussions (42 posts)
  1. profile image0
    PrettyPantherposted 13 months ago

    NFL On Kneeling Players' Protests: 'We Were Wrong,' Commissioner Says

    NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell said Friday the NFL admits that "we were wrong for not listening to NFL players earlier and encourage all to speak out and peacefully protest."

    The statement, made in a video over Twitter, comes a day after nearly 20 players called on the NFL to take a stronger stance amid a nationwide protest of police brutality against black people.

    "We, the NFL, condemn racism and the systematic oppression of Black People. We, the NFL, admit we were wrong for not listening to NFL players earlier and encourage all to speak out and peacefully protest. We, the NFL, believe Black Lives Matter," the NFL said.
    ---------------

    It wasn't that long ago that this issue was debated hotly here and across the nation.

    It looks like the tide of public opinion is turning.

    https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2020/06/05/ap_20024836856698_custom-25cfc4cec05d1157e5ff1a86cec84fd82a802b55-s1200-c85.jpg

    1. wilderness profile image96
      wildernessposted 13 months agoin reply to this

      20 NFL players may have changed their mind, but I haven't.  That Colin Kapernick chose to use someone else's venue to intentionally exhibit disrespect for the flag of the United States, and thereby the country as a method of gaining media attention is not something I support.  Nor do I think that we will find that  the tide of public opinion is turning whether the NFL makes such actions common or not - the people that were offended by his intentionally offensive action are still offended.  Those that chose to accept his offense as irrelevant in his greater message are not.

      It is beyond my understanding that burning cities would change that opinion.

      1. profile image0
        PrettyPantherposted 13 months agoin reply to this

        You really think that burning cities is what changed that opinion?

        Did you forget about the murder of George Floyd, caught on camera, in broad daylight, with a crowd of onlookers begging the murderer to stop, while Mr. Floyd cried for his dead mama?

        Did you forget about that?

        And you're offended by a quiet, kneeling protest.

    2. Stevennix2001 profile image87
      Stevennix2001posted 13 months agoin reply to this

      While I appreciate Goodell's words, but the problem is we all know he doesn't mean it.   Let's get real.   The NFL is only doing this as a PR movie, and Goodell is trying to save his own ass.   I don't give a rat's ass what he says, Goodell doesn't care about anyone but himself and his family, as he sure as hell does NOT give a rat's ass about the players.   If he did, then he wouldn't have kept pestering the NFL players union to agree to extend the season to 17 games versus it's usual 16 games fully knowing how increasing games would increase the odds of his players getting hurt.  And if he did care about players, then he wouldn't have worked with the rest of the owners and the NFL to try to cover up concussions in the NFL for the longest time.   

      I'm sorry but this is just a PR move as far as I'm concerned, so fuck him.

      1. GA Anderson profile image92
        GA Andersonposted 13 months agoin reply to this

        Welllll . . . I wouldn't be so hard on Goodell. Because he is just a part of the rest of your comment that I agree with.

        The NFL statement is just topical words. Had public sentiment gone the other way the NFL wouldn't have said beans.

        Goodall is just the mouthpiece, (in my opinion of course). If you want to see the true sentiment of the NFL, then watch the teams scamble to sign Kapernick.

        GA

        1. Stevennix2001 profile image87
          Stevennix2001posted 13 months agoin reply to this

          I doubt any NFL team will sign him.   It's a shame the XFL is no longer in business, as i feel like him signing with an XFL team would be great for all parties involved.  the XFL would finally have a bonafide star of their league, and they promote themselves as being the anti establishment football league while making the NFL seem like the establishment.  Similar to how Sega used to  down play Mario a lot when they were promoting both Sonic and Sega Genesis, when that initially launched decades ago.

        2. profile image0
          PrettyPantherposted 13 months agoin reply to this

          "Had public sentiment gone the other way the NFL wouldn't have said beans."

          That's what I mean when I say this is how change happens. Public sentiment has turned, the people are driving change. Sincere or not, those who hold the power eventually listen because, ultimately, the people own the true power. In my opinion, of course.

          Edut: An opinion based on what I have learned from those who spent their lives studying social change.

          1. GA Anderson profile image92
            GA Andersonposted 13 months agoin reply to this

            Yes, that is how change happens—a massive change in public opinion.

            This issue though, begs the question of whether it was a massive' change in public opinion or simply an acquiescence to an extremely vocal media moment?

            Obviously. I am extremely cynical of the NFL's 'change of heart'.

            GA

            1. profile image0
              PrettyPantherposted 13 months agoin reply to this

              I dunno. Polling is showing well over 80% of the public thinks the protests are justified. That's pretty overwhelming support.

    3. Tim Truzy info4u profile image98
      Tim Truzy info4uposted 13 months agoin reply to this

      Agreed, P.P. Even if we must think in truly capitalist terms, the move by the NFL Commissioner was wise. After all, they know who plays the sport, who will be playing the sport, and where the revenue comes from.
      On the historic side, burning cities actually are indicative of burning hearts. A hurt heart, a sense of betrayal of values,  is worth dying for. This is part of the American experiment, exemplified in the American Revolution. What good is any symbol if it is a mockery of the principles it's supposed to represent?

  2. Credence2 profile image82
    Credence2posted 13 months ago

    What conservatives fail to recognize is that I don't care about respecting a piece of cloth while the values that that piece of cloth is supposed to represent is, in reality, substantially ignored.

    1. MizBejabbers profile image90
      MizBejabbersposted 13 months agoin reply to this

      Then maybe he should have burned the flag in front of the police station. I've never figured out why the National Anthem is played before a sporting event anyway. I also can't figure out why sometimes a prayer is said before a sporting event. As if God cares who wins what must be a foolish endeavor in his sight.

      BTW, I am not a conservative.

      1. Credence2 profile image82
        Credence2posted 13 months agoin reply to this

        I really do not mind playing the national anthem or even reciting the Pledge of Allegiance in a voluntary setting. It is only when people wrap themselves in the flag as a cover for bigotry, censorship and injustice, will I take issue.

        Looking at the Evangelical Right and its support of its "dirty messiah" on earth, it has me wondering about the credibility of man and his religion.

        1. Tim Truzy info4u profile image98
          Tim Truzy info4uposted 13 months agoin reply to this

          Ah! But Christ from a religious point wasn't flawed. It's when you throw in human flawed interpretation that the words of the Gospel gets smashed. I watched on national TV, on a famous psychologist's show, a racist declared a person cannot be a pastor if he is Black. (Perhaps, he never knew Egypt, the home turf of Moses was in Africa), but bigotry isn't about logic - it's about the spiritual illness of racism.

          1. Credence2 profile image82
            Credence2posted 13 months agoin reply to this

            In the Judeo-Christian tradition, Christ was a flawless example. The problem is with man and how he distorts an otherwise message and messenger.

            I have come to the conclusion when it comes to this issue, people are best to do their own thinking.

      2. Stevennix2001 profile image87
        Stevennix2001posted 13 months agoin reply to this

        It's because the USA military spends billions of dollars in advertising before most sporting events, as sort of a recruitment ad for the military.  That's why.  And when Kap did that, Goodell wasn't too happy because he probably felt at the time Kap was going to cost the NFL one of their more lucrative sponsors; hence another reason why I wouldn't take Goodell's words to heart.  He only cares about making money for the NFL.  And I'm willing to bet behind closed doors, he probably cares less about the George Floyd murder than almost anyone else out there.  I hate saying that, but I'm just telling it like it is.

    2. profile image0
      PrettyPantherposted 13 months agoin reply to this

      I hear you. I personally do not feel that quietly kneeling in protest is disrespectful to the flag or anyone or anything. Rather, I see it as a quiet, respectful way to express discontent with actions that run counter to the equality and freedom that we, as a nation, have always said we stand for. To me, patriotism means loving your country enough to correct its wrongs. Free speech is fundamental to our nation's identity. Kaepernick did it the right way, in my opinion.

      1. Credence2 profile image82
        Credence2posted 13 months agoin reply to this

        Good point, Kaepernick was reverent in taking his stand. But, that still was not enough for the "Dark Side"

      2. Stevennix2001 profile image87
        Stevennix2001posted 13 months agoin reply to this

        I personally don't have a problem with Kaepernick protesting peacefully because that's his constitutional right to do so.  And it would be hypocritical for any of us on this site to fault him for using free speech to voice his concerns.  My only issue with his protests were I felt they could've been more direct.   

        The problem with Kap's protests wasn't the message, nor the protests themselves, but the fact that he chose to do it in a way that allowed a lot of conservatives to spin the narrative to be something else entirely than what it actually was.    think about it.  When Kap started kneeling, did that even raise more attention to the issue of police brutality?  No it didn't because the media was spinning it saying how it was more about Kap's alleged disrespect for the flag instead of the message at hand; hence he could've made his protest a bit more direct if you want me to be honest.  However, I have no issues with him protesting peacefully in general but just throwing my two cents.

    3. Sharlee01 profile image85
      Sharlee01posted 13 months agoin reply to this

      I am a conservative, as you may have guessed. Your statement ---  "I don't care about respecting a piece of cloth while the values that that piece of cloth is supposed to represent is, in reality, substantially ignored."

      This is a simple honest statement that holds so much common sense. I don't think I have ever heard anyone come so close to putting a finger on the problem of why some don't respect the flag.

      So, the subject of this thread is how change happens. Keeping with the simple honesty you used with providing your feeling about the flag if you feel comfortable doing so,  I would appreciate you answer a couple of questions.

      Do you feel the current protest will work to make things better for the symptomatic race relations?  Will they prove to be any different than those that came before them? 

      It must be encouraging to see so many hit the streets.  But, after they all go home, can you really say to yourself  "This is how change happens"?

      Not being a black person I have no way of answering these questions, I would not presume I would even have the right to answer these questions.

      I am not going to put my two cents in on how change happens. I hope to learn not to teach.

      1. Credence2 profile image82
        Credence2posted 13 months agoin reply to this

        I have served in the U.S. Armed Forces and I will always respect the flag of The United States, my only home.

        But, that does not mean that I am going to go for the "love it or leave it" attitude. While I may shirk at that form of protest, I must allows others their right to express their dismay in this manner as part of the 1st Amendment.

        While, the protests may or may not make things better for race relations, the issue is education as to the problems that revealed brutal and repressive techniques employed that may well be beyond the experience and consciousness of many people. There can now be no excuse for blissful ignorance as to the nature of the problem, and that is a leap forward. The cell phone camera may well rank with Guntenburg's printing press as a fundamental invention.

        If the protests put pressure on municipal governments to reform how the police do their jobs, this is a gain.

        You ask a good question, "what happens when it is all over"?

        There was substantial participation by those that were not African American. While it may be a flash in the pan for some, others may take home a new understanding and a different attitude as a result  that may manifest itself politically. Everything has a beginning, a fuse that has to be lit to take the average Joe away from his or her complacency, to show a side of America they would not see while taking the kids to soccer practice.

        I appreciate anyone who seriously takes an attitude of putting oneself in the other fellow's shoes. I lived in rural Montana for 3 years during the Eighties, as the only Black for miles around and I had people ask me why Michael Jackson wore the sequined glove, as if I were his personal valet. It is was all good though for rather than having preconceived bigoted attitudes, they were there to learn that I too had to work, eat, etc. and I was no different from them in the most fundamental of aspects.

        1. Sharlee01 profile image85
          Sharlee01posted 13 months agoin reply to this

          Yes, this recent protest should get the attention of the politicians, and that can't be all bad. Plus, as you said some may go home and think it a flash in the pan experience. But, many more might just realize they can make a difference politically and also work to educate others in their communities as well as their friends and families. In my view, a lot can be done in one's home to sew the seeds for change.

        2. Tim Truzy info4u profile image98
          Tim Truzy info4uposted 13 months agoin reply to this

          These changes will come slowly, not in a storm of everything is right immediately. Truthfully, even into the late 1970s, states in the South still held two schools for the blind and deaf, one for Black children and one for White children. (I know, a separate school for children who are blind based on race sounds wasteful and stupid today, but that's what was true.) My point is: change will come slowly, but we should always keep our eyes and ears focused on making sure change does occur.

  3. hard sun profile image85
    hard sunposted 13 months ago

    Agree with GA on this one. It does seem akin to  the American plea bargain system way of getting confessions. Unfortunately, too many of them are non-genuine. I haven't been commenting on much of anything politically lately as I've watched with bewilderment, so much of the left becoming exactly what they claim to hate in Trump supporters.

    1. GA Anderson profile image92
      GA Andersonposted 13 months agoin reply to this

      "I haven't been commenting on much of anything politically lately as I've watched with bewilderment, so much of the left becoming exactly what they claim to hate in Trump supporters."

      I know what you mean. I don't refrain from participating, but I do try to be selective about the discussions I join. Also, I must be a bit more cynical than you in that I have seen that mentioned "Left" behavior from the beginning. *Just as I have seen the "Right" do it when it is their turn in the barrel.

      GA

    2. profile image0
      PrettyPantherposted 13 months agoin reply to this

      So, I agree with you that there is pandering and non-genuine public features of support from politicians, other public figures, and large companies. But, isn't that always the case when public sentiment about a major social issue begins to swing another way? Yes, the genuineness of the, sentiment matters in a human sense, but if the end result is more equal treatment, or justice for wrongdoings that used to be ignored, it better oversight, then it is a good thing in my opinion.

  4. GA Anderson profile image92
    GA Andersonposted 13 months ago

    I wouldn't argue that 80% number, I think most sensible Americans agree with the issue of the tragedy—bad policing by some bad policemen, and the appearance of it being disproportionally directed at Black folks. (in most cases involving bad policemen I think that appearance is a reality because I think their bad policing is due to a negative mindset towards minorities.

    However, I do not think it is a systemic problem throughout our police forces and I do not agree with the media-presented mantras of the protests.

    GA

    1. profile image0
      PrettyPantherposted 13 months agoin reply to this

      Hmm. Systemic racism is a complex topic. I believe it exists throughout the justice system, not just in the police. I would be interested in hearing how you have concluded it is not a systemic problem in the police forces, but realize it is a big topic and wouldn't blame you if you don't want to get into it .

      1. GA Anderson profile image92
        GA Andersonposted 13 months agoin reply to this

        jackclee gave a good example of what one view of "systemic" might be.

        He gave the example of real estate and banking Redlining. The practice was almost standardized, and it was active throughout all, (okay, almost all), activities in those two industries. That is a fair explanation of what I would see as systemic.

        Conversely, our law enforcement agencies, (as a rule), have no such standardized practices or institutional mindsets of a similar nature. Instead, what they have is officers doing their job badly, officers that shouldn't be officers, and officers that are outright racist bigots. But I don't see that as systemic because you have that in every group human endeavor.

        It is appearance vs. numbers. I tossed numbers at you once before, but it wasn't to deny the existence of a problem, it was to frame the proportion of the problem. Those numbers were 54 million interactions vs. 2 million uses of force vs. a dozen excessive force uses. Yet that dozen gets the 2 million labeled as a systemic problem of police brutality. And the high visibility of the subset of police-on-black excessive force encounters earns those agencies the label of systemic racism.

        Look more locally at the Minneapolis PD. Google says they have 800 officers. Do you think these one-time, (hopefully, fingers crossed), actions of three, (the ones in physical contact with Floyd), indicate a systemic police brutality problem among most officers in that PD? *Caveat: use this as an illustrative example—that PD may very well have such a problem if investigated, but my point is based on the label of "systemic" based on the Floyd tragedy.

        And just imagine how much further I could go with this line of thought if the proportion of police/black contacts/crimes vs police/white contacts/crimes were considered. I wonder what the ratio is for police responding to a crime and finding a black vs. white perpetrator? ;-)

        GA

        1. profile image0
          PrettyPantherposted 13 months agoin reply to this

          It seems you have your own definition of systemic racism that differs from my understanding. I'm not sure I'm up to the task of ensuring that we are starting from the same understanding, as I feel that you are simply rejecting how it has been defined by those who identify its existence.

          1. GA Anderson profile image92
            GA Andersonposted 13 months agoin reply to this

            You might be right, (about my rejection), so we should probably just move on. Nothing to see here.

            If we can't agree on what systemic means there is little chance we will agree on any aspects of whether it is a problem or not.

            But, what the hell. Just for giggles and grins, what does "systemic" mean to you—relative to PD brutality and racism of course?

            GA

            1. profile image0
              PrettyPantherposted 13 months agoin reply to this

              Well, it's not what I think it means, it's what those who spend their working lives studying racism in general and police brutality in particular think it means.

              1. GA Anderson profile image92
                GA Andersonposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                Nope, you can't use that dodge. Does your statement mean you think it means what they say it means?

                If so, who are they and what do they say systemic means?

                GA

                1. profile image0
                  PrettyPantherposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                  My statement means that I do find the argument that systemic racism exists in the criminal justice system, from police to courts to incarceration, to be compelling and substantiated by the evidence. The example you gave of the practice of redlining in housing seems to indicate that you believe discrimination must be codified into the system in order to meet the definition of "systemic." Before I continue, is that a correct interpretation?

                  1. GA Anderson profile image92
                    GA Andersonposted 13 months agoin reply to this

                    No, it isn't right. Codified had nothing to do with my thoughts. I offered them as examples of prevalence and saturation. That is "systematic" to me.

                    GA

 
working

This website uses cookies

As a user in the EEA, your approval is needed on a few things. To provide a better website experience, hubpages.com uses cookies (and other similar technologies) and may collect, process, and share personal data. Please choose which areas of our service you consent to our doing so.

For more information on managing or withdrawing consents and how we handle data, visit our Privacy Policy at: https://corp.maven.io/privacy-policy

Show Details
Necessary
HubPages Device IDThis is used to identify particular browsers or devices when the access the service, and is used for security reasons.
LoginThis is necessary to sign in to the HubPages Service.
Google RecaptchaThis is used to prevent bots and spam. (Privacy Policy)
AkismetThis is used to detect comment spam. (Privacy Policy)
HubPages Google AnalyticsThis is used to provide data on traffic to our website, all personally identifyable data is anonymized. (Privacy Policy)
HubPages Traffic PixelThis is used to collect data on traffic to articles and other pages on our site. Unless you are signed in to a HubPages account, all personally identifiable information is anonymized.
Amazon Web ServicesThis is a cloud services platform that we used to host our service. (Privacy Policy)
CloudflareThis is a cloud CDN service that we use to efficiently deliver files required for our service to operate such as javascript, cascading style sheets, images, and videos. (Privacy Policy)
Google Hosted LibrariesJavascript software libraries such as jQuery are loaded at endpoints on the googleapis.com or gstatic.com domains, for performance and efficiency reasons. (Privacy Policy)
Features
Google Custom SearchThis is feature allows you to search the site. (Privacy Policy)
Google MapsSome articles have Google Maps embedded in them. (Privacy Policy)
Google ChartsThis is used to display charts and graphs on articles and the author center. (Privacy Policy)
Google AdSense Host APIThis service allows you to sign up for or associate a Google AdSense account with HubPages, so that you can earn money from ads on your articles. No data is shared unless you engage with this feature. (Privacy Policy)
Google YouTubeSome articles have YouTube videos embedded in them. (Privacy Policy)
VimeoSome articles have Vimeo videos embedded in them. (Privacy Policy)
PaypalThis is used for a registered author who enrolls in the HubPages Earnings program and requests to be paid via PayPal. No data is shared with Paypal unless you engage with this feature. (Privacy Policy)
Facebook LoginYou can use this to streamline signing up for, or signing in to your Hubpages account. No data is shared with Facebook unless you engage with this feature. (Privacy Policy)
MavenThis supports the Maven widget and search functionality. (Privacy Policy)
Marketing
Google AdSenseThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Google DoubleClickGoogle provides ad serving technology and runs an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Index ExchangeThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
SovrnThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Facebook AdsThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Amazon Unified Ad MarketplaceThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
AppNexusThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
OpenxThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Rubicon ProjectThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
TripleLiftThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Say MediaWe partner with Say Media to deliver ad campaigns on our sites. (Privacy Policy)
Remarketing PixelsWe may use remarketing pixels from advertising networks such as Google AdWords, Bing Ads, and Facebook in order to advertise the HubPages Service to people that have visited our sites.
Conversion Tracking PixelsWe may use conversion tracking pixels from advertising networks such as Google AdWords, Bing Ads, and Facebook in order to identify when an advertisement has successfully resulted in the desired action, such as signing up for the HubPages Service or publishing an article on the HubPages Service.
Statistics
Author Google AnalyticsThis is used to provide traffic data and reports to the authors of articles on the HubPages Service. (Privacy Policy)
ComscoreComScore is a media measurement and analytics company providing marketing data and analytics to enterprises, media and advertising agencies, and publishers. Non-consent will result in ComScore only processing obfuscated personal data. (Privacy Policy)
Amazon Tracking PixelSome articles display amazon products as part of the Amazon Affiliate program, this pixel provides traffic statistics for those products (Privacy Policy)
ClickscoThis is a data management platform studying reader behavior (Privacy Policy)