A Level of Stupidity So Staggering...

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  1. crankalicious profile image93
    crankaliciousposted 12 months ago

    President Trump ridiculed former President Obama and Joe Biden for the size of the crowds at their campaign rallies. As if the fact that President Trump had larger crowds meant he is somehow doing better.

    Of course, Obama and Biden are holding socially distanced, safe rallies while President Trump is inviting people to his rallies to get sick, stand close together, and not wear masks. Does Trump really think that Obama couldn't get several hundred thousand people to gather? Is Trump pushing Biden and Obama to encourage people to endanger themselves?

    Meanwhile, the county is seeing the highest level of infection since the pandemic began (no doubt helped by Trump's rallies). And five people on Pence's staff just got it, yet Pence won't quarantine, as recommended by the CDC. And Pence is on the Coronavirus Task Force!

    Is this not a level of stupidity unseen in American history? How could anyone vote for people this stupid? It's shocking. The behavior is shocking. The lack of awareness is shocking. Clearly, the safety of Trump's supporters is not important to him.

    1. Sharlee01 profile image83
      Sharlee01posted 12 months agoin reply to this

      Highest Level of infection, this is true but lowest death toll... This should have some pausing and asking questions. We have been watching the infection rate climb over the past month but the death toll stays low. It is not being reported but nonetheless true. The media is pushing fear. 99.6% survive of COVID. Compare Michigan where we had and very strict mitigations endorsed by law, and compare it to many states that did little. We had many deaths, infants just as many per million as Florida that did so little.

      It would seem stupid to vote for a man that is pushing mask mandates and shutdowns. His plan has been pretty well proven to do little.

      https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

      1. crankalicious profile image93
        crankaliciousposted 12 months agoin reply to this

        Biden is not pushing a shutdown. That is just a bald-faced lie. What he is pushing is a plan involving contact tracing and more of an emphasis on mask-wearing instead of a complete abdication of leadership and a downright refusal to wear masks while simultaneously endangering everybody in site by mocking basic, common sense precautions.

        Hospitals in states in the upper midwest are being overrun with cases and its only going to get worst. In fact, today Mark Meadows basically threw up his hands and said there's nothing they can do. Stupidity combined with a total lack of leadership is an extremely bad combination.

        The stupidity part has to do with comparing crowd size too. Of course Obama and Biden could generate huge crowds... if they wanted to violate all the health guidance being given. Is that what they should do to prove Trump wrong? That reaction is insanity.

        1. MizBejabbers profile image89
          MizBejabbersposted 12 months agoin reply to this

          I agree. Dr. Fauci has made his point that masks and social distancing prevent more cases and save lives.

        2. Sharlee01 profile image83
          Sharlee01posted 12 months agoin reply to this

          We have been tracing. When one has confirmed COVID they are given a handout of how they trace, and that is turned into the health department. Biden's plan has nothing that the Trump administration has not done. I hear so many speak about listening to the scientist the Dr's. Dr. Fauci way back in March informed us the virus would be back in the fall/winter. He said we would continue to mitigate without shutdowns, unless necessary.

          In regards to Trump's crowd's, these people are citizens that are making their own decisions. Do I feel they are right, maybe not?  But I have no right to expect them to keep me safe. I keep me safe. I don't feel I have the right to tell anyone how to conduct themselves.

          I have no idea if Obama or Biden can draw crowds. I would think many would be out on the sides of the road to welcome either one of them using distancing. We are all out and about in public.

          Trump does point out the size of his crowds.

          1. wilderness profile image97
            wildernessposted 12 months agoin reply to this

            "I don't feel I have the right to tell anyone how to conduct themselves."

            Do you support keeping drunk drivers off the roads?
            Keeping people from building bombs?
            Health dept. inspections of restaurants?
            Checks on senior living businesses?
            Making false advertising claims, particularly in the health field?
            The sale of Crack, Heroin, Coke, LSD, etc.?

            Our country is chock full of laws designed to protect us from our neighbors actions: is mask wearing any different?

            1. Sharlee01 profile image83
              Sharlee01posted 12 months agoin reply to this

              I was referring to the situation at hand Rallies, and masks.  Again, my state did each and every mitigation, we are no better off than states that did very little. My sister lives in Florida they did so little, she is furious that people will not wear masks, and go to the beach, rallies, and more...  per million death toll shows Florida very close to Michigan's. Should make one think, just how much are the masks doing? I can't and won't argue the purpose of masks. In my view, they did little but make people feel they could be in close proximity to others. Handwashing and distancing are very effective in preventing the spread of viruses.

              I in no respect feel the right to impede anyone's rights to return to their normal. I have weighed the consequences of the mitigations in many respects they are proving to be worse than the illness. Just my view, we have to move on, and just do our best. I very much realize many don't share my opinion. In my opinion, masks have done little but promote dependence and fear. Now if people were thought to distance well, and not depend on masks and develop a false sense of safety to get close to one another...  and keep those hands clean, we all would be better off. Now that's science.

              1. MizBejabbers profile image89
                MizBejabbersposted 12 months agoin reply to this

                If a person walks into a CV positive breath stream of a positive person who has coughed, sung or yelled, and that person breathes in the virus, then hand washing won't work. Also, even 6 ft. social distancing is in question because medical experts have found that sometimes the infected breath travels as much as 13 ft. If the infected person is wearing a mask, the breath can't travel that far because the mask catches it. If the non-CV person is also wearing a mask and comes within the range of the infected person, it just adds another layer of protection. But you are right that there is no guarantee except to stay home and don't come in contact with another person. Then one must hope that they don't come in contact with a contaminated surface, such as when they are putting up groceries and touch a can of beans with CV on it because the person who filled the order was positive.

                However, I agree with the person who said, "Your rights end six feet from my nose." I think we should all do our part to be good citizens and keep on trying to defeat this virus. I think anyone who keeps on whining about this interfering with their "civil rights" is being narcissistic and selfish. This includes a member of my own family.

                She is a cashier and is required to wear a mask and face shield at one of her two part-time jobs.  At the other, she wears a mask and stands behind a plexiglas partition. Her spouse is 58 years old and suffered a heart attack a couple of years ago, so I have no sympathy for her whine.

                1. Sharlee01 profile image83
                  Sharlee01posted 12 months agoin reply to this

                  I appreciate your view, it is well taken.

              2. wilderness profile image97
                wildernessposted 12 months agoin reply to this

                I didn't make myself clear.  We have dozens or hundreds (thousands?) of laws to protect us from our neighbors and some of those include prohibitions designed and implemented to slow or prevent the spread of disease.  What is different about Covid that we should not pass laws specifically designed to protect us from disease carriers that can, and do, infect their neighbors?

                As far as Michigan - the rules were set, yes.  Did a large majority obey them, or did they ignore them?  It would make a huge difference in how effective those rules were.

                1. crankalicious profile image93
                  crankaliciousposted 12 months agoin reply to this

                  Always respect your consistency, Wilderness.

                  I sometimes wonder if it's math illiteracy that's driving this stupid anti-mask response.

                  Our schools opened back up here in liberal town. My kids are going.

                  A single positive COVID case takes out 50 people. It takes out the teacher and all the students in the class because they can't come back to school. 50 people plus the 1 positive case quarantining for 14 days. Can you imagine if we just let it run wild?

                  1. wilderness profile image97
                    wildernessposted 12 months agoin reply to this

                    Actually, I support opening schools again (surprise!).  I've listened to enough students, teachers and parents, plus working with my own grandkids and their schooling to agree that kids just aren't learning what they need online.  They need that classroom experience.

                    The school my grandkids is in is operating on a week on-week off schedule.  Half class sizes, then, with the week off being online.  It isn't as good as the classroom, but seems a reasonable compromise without denying the kids the schooling they need, and the Covid risks are cut in half as well.

                  2. Sharlee01 profile image83
                    Sharlee01posted 11 months agoin reply to this

                    Have you noted a decrease in the death toll in your state for the last two months? Along with an increase in cases? Just curious. Here in Michigan, we have watched the case stat go up but our death rate decrease. This certainly could change as winter progresses.

                2. Sharlee01 profile image83
                  Sharlee01posted 12 months agoin reply to this

                  In Michigan, we had no choice but to follow them. No masks no service. She kept our businesses very much closed for 6 months with very draconian rules to even open a business. She provided strict rules to reopen that would cost a business large amounts of money to refute their spaces to reopen.  We have watched so many businesses close permanently due to the long closure and or expenses to reopen.   And no citizens did not ignore the given mitigations. By the end of summer, many citizens did protest at our capital.

                  Our suicide numbers are surging, as well as drug overdoses, child abuse, and spousal abuse. https://www.crainsdetroit.com/health-ca … ndemic-era

                  To address --- Your analogy

                  Do you support keeping drunk drivers off the roads?
                  Keeping people from building bombs?
                  Health dept. inspections of restaurants?
                  Checks on senior living businesses?
                  Making false advertising claims, particularly in the health field?
                  The sale of Crack, Heroin, Coke, LSD, etc.?

                  In my view all but one of what you provided as analogies are ongoing problems that have plagued our society longterm. And certainly, we need laws to at best cut down on the problems they cause. They are problems that linger and need to be addressed on the basis that the bases they will never fully be eradicated. 

                  In my view, a health problem such as a virus can be expected to be eradicated, and we need not pose laws that are enforced on an entire population. I agree with the need for temporary mitigations to control a curve, cut down on cases to enable citizens to continue working and children being able to go to school. But I don't agree that making mask laws is appropriate. I feel any law that blankets a society is dangerous and an overreach of government.  A blanket law is in my opinion severe, uncalled for. I am living in a state with mitigations have been endorsed, we are spiking in cases as most states. We were told to expect the fall/winter spike, not sure why many are shocked about the new spikes? What is a bit positive is the death rate cases versus deaths are showing the virus is although showing it is still spreading easily, it may not be killing as many citizens.  In Michigan, we are seeing H1N1 flu hospital cases along with COVID cases. No one is reporting this is part of a slight increase in hospitalizations in Michigan. H1N1 is not in the COVID case count but certainly will as every year cause hospitalizations. The media need to report this fact. COVID is not overrunning our hospital beds in many area's it's H1N1... Media is spreading fear, and not providing important stats that could provide positive hope. 

                  I feel we need to move on and learn to live with the virus with an open society, hopefully using mitigations as needed to decrease the spread. A vaccine is coming, and at some point, we will rid ourselves of this virus to some extent. Science tells us viruses stick around for many years. Keep in mind H1N1 2009 our last new virus still comes around every Flu season. As this year. I got my flu shot last week for H1N1.

                  We need to realize COVID is here and will be for a long time. We need to learn to live with it while we denature it with a vaccine. Our other choice is to watch the country go bankrupt. But unlike all that you listed that have no clear way of ever being eradicated totally, COVID will be eradicated.

                  1. wilderness profile image97
                    wildernessposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                    I fully agree that we need to learn to live with the virus, using mitigations as needed to decrease the spread.  But it is that "using mitigations as needed" is where we stand now, for until we have "learned to live with the virus", meaning a vaccine, steps need to be taken.

                  2. MizBejabbers profile image89
                    MizBejabbersposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                    "What is a bit positive is the death rate cases versus deaths are showing the virus is although showing it is still spreading easily, it may not be killing as many citizens."

                    I saw a report a week or two ago that confirmed your statement. A doctor, I think was from the CDC, said that the virus had mutated into a more contagious form but that it seemed to be weaker and didn't seem to be as lethal as the previous form. Let's hope it finally mutates itself harmless.

                    Something that concerns me is that we have not been able to eradicate the flu virus. Even with flu vaccines every year tailored to fit that year's expected flu viruses, we still have many cases of flu. In 2009 the H1N1 flu virus had five different strains (or so we were told) but the vaccine protected against only three of them. My husband and I received our shots but we still had some of the severest cases of flu that we'd ever had. My point in bringing this up is that medical experts are saying that this very problem may occur with the COVID-19 virus.
                    So, not to quarrel with your stance on CV and masks, but merely to discuss what might occur in the future if this happens. Will masks still be required? Should masks be required during flu season? Will a season of both flu and CV requiring masks lessen the cases of flu?
                    It may not be appropriate to bring this up in this forum, but I simply don't have time to start a new forum and monitor it right now. Since we have both pro-mask and anti-mask people discussing masks, I just wonder what you think.
                    I agree that masks should be kept to a local requirement, but that they do help to keep down the cases of CV. I don't see requiring masks in a part of the country that isn't experiencing an outbreak, but I like seeing them on our streets in my locale because our state is showing an increase in cases right now.

    2. lobobrandon profile image90
      lobobrandonposted 11 months agoin reply to this

      Check out the social dilemma, it was not new information to me, but it was definitely a good watch and it does explain why not just the US, but many countries across the globe have the highest levels of stupidity today.

      Not related to the documentary, but anyone who has had a decent high school education would be able to tell that the Earth is not flat. The reason I point this out is because it is a conspiracy theory and social media algorithms share other conspiracies to people who spend time reading stuff like this and so there is a growing web of people who believe that the virus is a hoax, it is not different from the regular flu, masks are useless, it is against their basic rights, etc. There were similar issues when seat belts were introduced with people saying it took away from their basic rights. The difference is back then it was just newspapers and television that could promote such nonsense, today it is far reaching and far reaching on an addicitve level.

      This is also the reason why you currently have one of the largest divides between democrats and republicans in the US. Social media reinforces the divide with one-sided information and often also fake news.

  2. wilderness profile image97
    wildernessposted 11 months ago

    And tonight I see reports of some Europeans following Americans and rioting over restrictions on businesses being open.  It seems that Americans (outside of liberal politicians) aren't the only ones recognizing that interminable shutdowns do more damage than any virus.

    1. MizBejabbers profile image89
      MizBejabbersposted 11 months agoin reply to this

      I don't think there's any doubt that shutdowns damage our economy and stifle the process of educating our children. My husband and I were discussing last night the worry that probably only the most dedicated child/student would be getting a proper education from online lessons. A lot of kids, especially those with discipline problems, may view this as an opportunity to slack off on their lessons. I hope not.
      My longtime friend and I are discussing going out to eat somewhere and visit this coming week. We are both retired and, prior to covid, we went out once or twice a month. Back in August, we went through a drive-thru window and took our food to a city park by a small lake. It was a great outing and we caught up on our grandchildren, pets, and the like. We had planned to do this regularly, but then cold weather hit prematurely. I think there are innovative ways we can support our businesses and socialize without putting ourselves at too great a risk. People should put some of these ways to work for themselves, rather than to get out and riot and commit destruction.

 
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