Stanford study: Trump rallies led to 30,000 COVID cases, 700 deaths

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  1. profile image0
    PrettyPantherposted 11 months ago

    https://www.sfgate.com/politics/article … IrUb-S5AdQ

    I don't know about you, but I would feel horribly guilty and responsible if I engaged in a non-essential activity, in a way that ignored scientific and medical advice, and caused just one death, not to mention 700.

    Why do you think Trump, and the supporters who attend rallies and spread the disease to others do not seem to feel responsible or guilty for their role in these deaths?

    Does it bother you that a leader of a civilized nation conducts himself this way?

    1. wilderness profile image97
      wildernessposted 11 months agoin reply to this

      First I would have to see the data and the reasoning process to come up with the results. 

      Beyond that, if you were a restaurant owner would you feel bad that you likely contributed to the spread?  If you owned a shopping mall and opened it?  Would you feel bad if you participated in a BLM protest?  If you as pastor led your congregation in worship and song? (https://www.opb.org/news/article/easter … -outbreak/)

      The point being that making the opportunity available to people to gather and spread the virus has been, and continues to be, done by millions of people every day.  But you want to condemn one single person for doing what those millions continue to do.  Shouldn't you be beating your breast over the unnecessary activities taking place all over the country?

      1. profile image0
        PrettyPantherposted 11 months agoin reply to this

        If I ignored scientific and medical advice, yes, I would feel guilty.

        1. wilderness profile image97
          wildernessposted 11 months agoin reply to this

          ALL of those things mentioned, along with thousands of others, are ignoring "scientific and medical advice".  Unless you are sitting in your house, not going out at all except for groceries (unless you could get delivery) so are you.

          We are ALL leaving our homes for "unnecessary" reasons; even to work could be called "unnecessary" as we still have millions out of work and still making it.

          1. profile image0
            PrettyPantherposted 11 months agoin reply to this

            That is simply not true.

            1. wilderness profile image97
              wildernessposted 11 months agoin reply to this

              Really?  Medical experts, testifying in their specialty, are advising that it's OK to join protests, walk the mall and sing at crowded churches?

              1. Live to Learn profile image75
                Live to Learnposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                It's only really bad to the left if orange man involved.

              2. profile image0
                PrettyPantherposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                The part that is not true is that we are all ignoring medical advice. You are trying to distract from the fact that Trump and his supporters who attend rallies without masks and without social distancing are knowingly spreading disease and death. That is not the same as a person who, say, heads to the coast and wears a mask and avoids people.

                I will agree that a person who walks the mall without a mask and without social distancing could also be responsible for spreading the virus.

                But, the president has a special obligation to lead by example or, at the very least, to do no harm, wouldn't you say?

              3. peterstreep profile image81
                peterstreepposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                So why is Trump making rallies with thousands of people without masks if specialists advise that it is not OK to join rallies?
                He does so, because he does not listen to specialists. You are contradicting yourself Wilderness.

    2. savvydating profile image90
      savvydatingposted 11 months agoin reply to this

      Stanford has published a number of Covid-19 studies that turned out to be false or misleading.

      https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog … d-19-study

      Was your study peer reviewed? I doubt it.

      From the article:  "Research coming out of Stanford and published at top scientific journals is more likely to be speculative and razzle-dazzle than research at middle tier institutions and in middle tier journals, just because Stanford is only likely to hire and promote people who prioritize that type of work."

      Stanford is notorious for publishing articles that are less than candid. Give a researcher enough grant money and he will publish anything you want.

      Here is another article: https://www.forbes.com/sites/carlieport … 1073e71517

      The list goes on and on.

      1. profile image0
        PrettyPantherposted 11 months agoin reply to this

        None of those articles address this particular study. All academic studies should be examined with a skeptical eye, for sure,

        Care to do that specifically with this one? So far, nothing you have shared or stated is relevant to this study.

        1. savvydating profile image90
          savvydatingposted 11 months agoin reply to this

          I asked you a direct question which you failed to answer.

          I take it you do not know if the article is peer reviewed and if so, what rating it has been given.

          No, I do not care to do your homework for you. You chose the study and you can back it up.

          And yes, it is relevant that all Covid studies coming out of Stanford are less than candid.

        2. crankalicious profile image93
          crankaliciousposted 11 months agoin reply to this

          Since when do conservatives care about peer review? If they did, there'd be no argument about global warming.

          1. savvydating profile image90
            savvydatingposted 11 months agoin reply to this

            Your statement shows a lack of understanding regarding consensus among scientists, not to mention peer review. But, I am not surprised.

            1. profile image0
              PrettyPantherposted 11 months agoin reply to this

              Would you mind explaining how his two-sentence statement shows a a lack of understanding regarding consensus among scientists, not to mention peer review?

              This is your opportunity to educate both me and crankalicious, since my knowledge of the nature of scientific consensus does not conflict with crank's statement.

              1. crankalicious profile image93
                crankaliciousposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                She can't. When it comes to global warming, conservatives consistently rely on people who are not experts and "studies" that are not peer-reviewed and ignore those vast numbers of studies that are peer-reviewed and establish the increase in carbon dioxide in the atmosphere from man-made sources.

                That they suddenly want to cite lack of peer review on a statement about COVID spread is humorous at best.

                1. savvydating profile image90
                  savvydatingposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                  This introduction, by scientists, explains scientific consensus and peer review. I'll leave it up to you and PP to educate yourselves by reading if you care to, which I highly doubt.

                  https://www.ucsusa.org/resources/ipcc-w … C2SXcn3Y6E

      2. abwilliams profile image65
        abwilliamsposted 11 months agoin reply to this

        What bothers me are the crowds of rioters and looters which gravitate from one democratically-run city to the next. They obviously don't care about anyone other than themselves...as they take advantage of businesses when they are most vulnerable, as they stuff their trunks with stolen property, they aren't thinking about what they may be spreading in the process. How many people have they infected along the way? How many of them are super-spreaders? If Stanford hasn't considered this study, perhaps they should.

        1. profile image0
          PrettyPantherposted 11 months agoin reply to this

          Of course that's what bothers you.

          Care to comment on the actual topic of the thread?

          1. crankalicious profile image93
            crankaliciousposted 11 months agoin reply to this

            I think it's legitimate to question whether protesters are spreading the virus. Those are big crowds.

            However, when your president encourages crowds of people and encourages them not to wear masks, that's a different thing entirely. He's the president. He's supposed to be smart. He's supposed to provide leadership. He's supposed to keep Americans safe.

      3. Sharlee01 profile image83
        Sharlee01posted 11 months agoin reply to this

        Interesting study, although it yet has not been vetted, and the study has not yet been peer-reviewed by experts in public health, epidemiology, and infectious diseases to determine how valid the study’s methods, results, and conclusions may be or has it been published in a scientific journal.
        (Reuters) - Stanford University economists estimate that President Donald Trump’s campaign rallies have resulted in 30,000 additional confirmed cases of COVID-19, and likely led to more than 700 deaths overall, according to a paper posted online this weekend. The word estimate tells me Reuters is being careful not to add credence to the study.
        https://www.reuters.com/article/usa-ele … NKBN27H1IG

        However, I must agree the rallies were unnecessary and could have most certainly provided a venue to spread COVID. I think Trump was careless with American's health, and it was a poor decision to hold huge rallies.

        For the sake of argument, should have Stanford considered doing a study on the three months of daily protests that occurred in several Democratic states this past summer? These protests were pretty much nightly, in Portland we had a common of protesters living in a park for many months. I would surmise that the summer of love would make the rally stats look minuscule to the months of nightly protest.

        It does bother me that Trump held his huge rallies, it also bothers me that we had over three months of protesters gathering nightly in huge crowds. I guess the people that attended Trump's rallies had as much right to support their candidate for president by what one could just rename as peaceful rallies. Maybe it all comes down to given rights. Supporters of any given groups should have equal rights, should they not?

        1. profile image0
          PrettyPantherposted 11 months agoin reply to this

          Yes, of course. One very big difference between the protests and Trump rallies is the level of mask wearing among attendees.

          1. wilderness profile image97
            wildernessposted 11 months agoin reply to this

            If 10% wear a mask as opposed to near 0 I don't see much difference in a large crowd.  But of course I'm speaking of the evening and night time riots, not the (mostly) peaceful protests during the day.

            1. profile image0
              PrettyPantherposted 11 months agoin reply to this

              So, you really don't see a difference between rioters not wearing masks and the President of the United States hosting multiple rallies with thousands of unmasked attendees while ridiculing mask wearers?

              Really?  Come on.

          2. Sharlee01 profile image83
            Sharlee01posted 11 months agoin reply to this

            Yes, that is true, it did appear that most protesters wore masks. That would even be a more interesting study. It would be very interesting to know did masks help prevent the spread of COVID in large crowds or not?

            In my opinion, large crowds would certainly increase the spread of COVID.  It would appear there are two sides and both are dug in, and falling back on their rights. One group, feel they have the right to demand all citizens use mitigations to protect them from COVID.  The other feel they have the right to return to normal without mitigations.  All comes down to individual rights. I would think any kind of mandate mitigations will be looked at as impeding 14th Amendment which protects individual rights. Stepping on one's liberty may not go over well.

            1. profile image0
              PrettyPantherposted 11 months agoin reply to this

              Is requiring sear belts violating the 14th Amendment? If not, why is requiring mask wearing in certain situations any different?

      4. peterstreep profile image81
        peterstreepposted 11 months agoin reply to this

        The behaviour of President Trump is structural. He does not trust science. He does not believe in climate change, an even bigger challenge then COVID. Accoerding to him COVID will just go away...
        Trump showed in this crisis time that he simply can not handle the job. He is good with words, but as soon something needs to be done he is nowhere to be seen. No action, no plan.
        I feel sorry for you guys and hope that the US starts to act normal again soon. As the last 4 years there was more division and arguments then never before. The tweets of the president def, did not help to solve it. Trump is not a bridge builder, more a chasm builder.

        1. profile image0
          PrettyPantherposted 11 months agoin reply to this

          The level of support for Trump from people I thought I knew has been disheartening to say the least. I hope we rid ourselves of this divisive, incompetent con man this election. If not, I fear my beloved country will never get back to competence and decency. I am so mortified that the rest of the world has also had to deal with the malignant narcissist's nonsense.

        2. Credence2 profile image81
          Credence2posted 11 months agoin reply to this

          You know, Peter, it is giving him more credit than he deserves. Trump is not "good at words" either.

          When he speaks, his true intent is always quite evident on the surface. A man with the finesse and subtlety of a busted chain saw.

          1. profile image0
            PrettyPantherposted 11 months agoin reply to this

            LOL, many agree with you, but his supporters seem to be quite mesmerized.

            1. Credence2 profile image81
              Credence2posted 11 months agoin reply to this

              Panther, his supporters are just drones not programmed to think outside the box that Trump had designed for them.

              1. profile image0
                PrettyPantherposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                I will agree that those who attend rallies without masks and chant "Lock her up" and "Fire Fauci" have fallen for the con.

              2. Sharlee01 profile image83
                Sharlee01posted 11 months agoin reply to this

                This statement seeks to blanket a group and could be taken as an insult by those that don't agree with your sentiment. I support the President and find your comment offensive.

                1. abwilliams profile image65
                  abwilliamsposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                  Ya think Sharlee, you are so nice! This 'discussion' has gone the direction it is meant to go, when driven by the left, the insults come out and right into the ditch it goes.

                  1. Sharlee01 profile image83
                    Sharlee01posted 11 months agoin reply to this

                    I could see this coming. And yes I was nice, you can imagine what I would have like to say. But what was it  M. Obama said "when they go low we go high"... LOL  I went high,

                    1. abwilliams profile image65
                      abwilliamsposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                      :-)

                2. Credence2 profile image81
                  Credence2posted 11 months agoin reply to this

                  No offense meant, but, at least around here based on observation virtually everything he says is willingly accepted, regardless of its actual content. Trump has become virtually synonymous with the Republican Party.

                  What I say is no more offensive than "blanket statements" routinely made about the Left, here and elsewhere about its candidates and supporters.

                  1. Sharlee01 profile image83
                    Sharlee01posted 11 months agoin reply to this

                    No, you are actually wrong many here that are clearly conservative call Trump out when they find he says something that is offensive or illogical.  I look for complete context in the president statements before deciding to support them or not. I would also think it appropriate that Trump is certainly synonymous with the Republican party... He is at this point the head of our party.

                    And calling anyone or any group "drones" is an insult.  Hopefully, others take note of your view, one can pick up subtle hints to one's personality through comments. In my view the statement was discriminatory. 

                    Oh well, the cat is out of the bag.

                    1. profile image0
                      PrettyPantherposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                      So, you are fine with his "Lock her up" chants directed at Gov. Wittmer?

                      What about his wish to count no more ballots after election day?

                      His defense of Kyle Rittenhouse?

                      His use of the term "patriots" to describe the Trump supporters who derailed a Biden appearance with their highway bullying?

                      His call to right-wing militias to be "poll watchers"?

                      That is what you're voting for and it's just a tip of the ice berg.

              3. GA Anderson profile image90
                GA Andersonposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                Do you understand how many tens of millions of folks you have just categorized? Do you really think half of our nation's citizens belong in Hillary's 'deplorable' basket?

                No wonder you lean Progressive. The rest of the nation needs you folks to lead us because we can't survive as a nation without the wisdom of your guidance.

                That was how your comment sounded.  Geesh!

                GA

                1. profile image0
                  PrettyPantherposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                  I actually agree with you that it was over the top, which is why I tried to narrow it down to the yahoos who attend his rallies. Still probably insulting to some, but in my opinion, Trump supporters invite these types of characterizations by supporting a guy who cheers jailing his political opponents. And that's just one thing among many very concerning behaviors.

                  1. GA Anderson profile image90
                    GA Andersonposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                    I think I understand your perspective, and the visuals can be taken either way, but I think any; yahoo, drone, or deplorable, characterization needs to start from the same original question of the 2016 election; "Why" is a Trump supporter a Trump supporter?

                    You may think the visual of a bearded, beer-bellied, gun-toting yahoo yelling at a rally supports your thought, but remember, there are yahoos among all of us.

                    Right beside that yahoo at the rally you might also see a professional-dressed married couple—wearing masks, voicing the same enthusiastic support. Do you put them in the yahoo bucket too?

                    However, in the spirit of full disclosure, I can't argue your point that some of  Pres. Trump's statements do support your thought. ;-)

                    GA

                    1. profile image0
                      PrettyPantherposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                      Yep, there are yahoos of all stripes but thus thread happens to be Trump-supporting yahoos.

                      But, if it makes you feel better Bernie Bros irritate the hell outa me. ;-)

                2. Credence2 profile image81
                  Credence2posted 11 months agoin reply to this

                  Fine, but don't let me read about another conservative consigning all liberal and progressive thinkers to a common fruit basket again. I will be watching and waiting to pounce. So, conservatives, on your on notice.

                  And by the way,
                  ----
                  "The rest of the nation needs you folks to lead us because we can't survive as a nation without the wisdom of your guidance."
                  -----
                  Well, you kinda do..... once we dispense with Trump, we will demonstrate how to build back better...

                  1. GA Anderson profile image90
                    GA Andersonposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                    *sigh . . . Back to the 'you did it so it's okay for me to do it too' mantra.

                    "Build back better . . ."? If Biden wins I hope you are right. But I will still hold on to my stash of salt shakers .

                    GA

                    1. Credence2 profile image81
                      Credence2posted 11 months agoin reply to this

                      Unfortunately, my life mantra will always be " if you can't take, don't dish it out".

                      Otherwise the inequality I see all around me would simply be exacerbated just that much more.

                      I simply can't afford to be the optimist you are, the status quo has been designed to work for you.  For many of us others, that is not the case.

          2. peterstreep profile image81
            peterstreepposted 11 months agoin reply to this

            Definitely true. But some things work..
            I just saw today this video on youtube, Which makes you think..
            How Donald Trump Answers A Question

            1. wilderness profile image97
              wildernessposted 11 months agoin reply to this

              It does make some think.  Others not so much, as they will listen to the words, spin them as necessary to support their bias, and declare the worst possible interpretation is the actual "intent".

              1. peterstreep profile image81
                peterstreepposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                What bias?

                Same thing for Bernie Sanders.

                How Bernie Sanders Answers A Question

        3. Sharlee01 profile image83
          Sharlee01posted 11 months agoin reply to this

          Not sure the President does not respect science. I think he appears to be worried about a collapsing economy. This would be disastrous, as he says the cure can't be worse than the diseases.  The economy misy be considered, it would be a poor leader if he let his country collapse under any circumstances. It well appears even though the infection rate is high, the death toll is low. This is not readily being reported. IT is also not being reported that our economy's third quarter was very good. In fact, it was predicted the third quarter would be poor. It well appears we are coming back, more so than many European countries. This president was hit with a large crisis, as were all leaders of most countries. It would seem  Trump is doing all he can to bring relief from this huge problem. Many just will not recognize what he has done.

          Is your country stabilized at this point?

          1. profile image0
            PrettyPantherposted 11 months agoin reply to this

            Can you explain to me how requiring people to wear masks and social distance at his rallies would be disastrous for the economy?

            1. Sharlee01 profile image83
              Sharlee01posted 11 months agoin reply to this

              I was addressing Peters  -- " He does not trust science. He does not believe in climate change, an even bigger challenge then COVID. Accoerding to him COVID will just go away.."

              Just pointing out it may not be that he does not trust science but in some respects felt the cure could be worse than the disease. He was certainly referring to the economy, as well as several other variables when he made that statement. he has made the statement frequently following up with concerns about the economy, suicides, etc.

          2. peterstreep profile image81
            peterstreepposted 11 months agoin reply to this

            Not sure the President does not respect science..
            Well to me you should listen to science advisers and be humble about your own "opinions" about cures.. And not threaten to fire them when they have different opinions then you have.
            And it is a pastern by Trump, he does not believe in Climate Change either, as it does not suit him politicly. And climate change is even a worse crisis then COVID.

            Is your country stabilized at this point?
            Nope. We don't have a lockdown yet, like Germany. But it is close. Gatherings with more then 6 persons are forbidden. Facemasks are obligatory everywhere even in the open air. There is a curfew. (between 12.00 and 06.00 you need permission to be on the streets.)
            It's tough. The whole cultural industry is in a deep pit. (concerts restaurants, bars, theatre, dance, the art world.) Not many realize it but the cultural sector created millions of jobs and money. Cinemas are closing, etc. But this is the sector that's paid least attention to by a government. (as it is often seen as a hobby. - tell that to actors, color editors, photographers, etc etc)
            On top of that there is hardly any tourism now in Spain. A huge income pillar.

            It's for sure that live has changed and will never go back to normal.
            This is simply the start of a world wide crisis (even the word depression is used!). And it will take a couple of years... Depending on how a government will handle it. But I think there should be something like a New Deal. The EU is working on one. But Northern Europe(especially The Netherlands) is not keen on helping Southern Europe. Which I think is a disgrace. In good times you work together. But especially in bad times you help each other.

            I'm not talking about the UK any more, as they committed economical suicide with leaving the EU. Being a small country in a big world, ouch.. They will hit tough in the years to come. The rows in front of the foodbanks are already lengthening..

            Valencia where I live (not in the city but on the country side..best place to be at the moment..) is doing relatively well compared to the rest of Spain. Especially Madrid is hit hard. As they did not want to put the national rules in place and cared more for the economy. They paid with dead people for it..

            Why one country is hit harder then the other is a complex question. But What showed is that a lot of countries (US, UK, The Netherlands, Spain) where not prepared for it, and did not prepare themselves for the second wave. As they all had a terrible healthcare system that could not deal with the administration, quantities of people, lack of money, or what ever reason. The first wave was understandable (although the UK, The Netherlands and the US could have seen it coming.) but the preparation for the second wave is just terrible politics from all these countries. Germany did much better in this respect. (although it's in lockdown now.) And I think it helped that Angela Merkel had a science background and understood the implications early on. Instead of Trump who is a salesman and has no clue about science.

            Sorry for the long reply.

            1. wilderness profile image97
              wildernessposted 11 months agoin reply to this

              Sweden is better off (in terms of deaths per million population) than Spain, the US and the UK.  It begins to look like they may be the winners in the long haul as their 7 day death toll per million is 0.1 while the rest of us are looking at 20 deaths per million as cases and deaths suddenly spike.

              Perhaps we should all have "prepared" as Sweden did, "denying" the science and maintaining an economy.  It may not take long until we begin counting deaths in riots (like those in Spain) as part of COVID deaths, and if so, Sweden is looking even better as a winner.

              1. peterstreep profile image81
                peterstreepposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                Sweden is different then Spain if you look at society and social behaviour.
                More than half of Swedish households are single-person, compared with Spain 25.4%
                Spain is much more contact oriented society then Sweden.
                Also complete different climate.
                So pretty difficult to compare.
                I think if you look at the US it will also be difficult to compare Florida with Alaska.

        4. wilderness profile image97
          wildernessposted 11 months agoin reply to this

          Yep, no action and no plan where there is a problem.

          Which is why we see remarkable progress in Middle East peace.

          Which is why we are actually doing something about our southern border.

          Which is why we had the best employment ever for minorities.

          Which is why we have better trade agreements.

          As far as not being a chasm builder - the political chasm in the US has reached the point where nothing can build a bridge to cross it; it would be like building a wooden bridge to the moon.

      5. Sharlee01 profile image83
        Sharlee01posted 11 months agoin reply to this

        I have followed this thread pretty closely, I have watched it progress into more or less a  -- Why I could never vote for Trump.   Which is fine, everyone has the right to express their view, their feelings. What sticks out on this thread like a sore thumb --- are comments about "why I can't vote for Trump, and undertones of "why I dislike conservatives.

          Yet, there is no sharing of why they are voting for Joe Boden. That subject is "pin-drop quiet".

        So, in regard to what I have read, I am left to consider do some comments truly speak loudly.   Here are two statements that seem to clearly say. I could never vote for a person that I find their behavior unacceptable, I can ignore policies at all costs to the Country.

        "I cannot and will not ever agree that this behavior can be ignored in favor of so-called policy."

        "But, on the other side politically, I can not support Trump based on both his behavior and the principles of him and the GOP party."

        Again, behavior, principles over policies...  Willing to vote on behavior, principles... Does this kind of thinking consider the difficulty of the job of a president? Those statements seem to be saying behavior for some is more important than policies, a promising agenda.  What bothers me in regard to the above comments is in my view they are so telling, so defining of their truthful attitudes

        Does it bother anyone that some in the country consider the most important quality of a president is behavior over agenda, policies?  Has the presidency become a popular competition for some? Just no need to have other qualities, such as a good agenda for the country.

        And why is this all about not voting for Trump? Why not about why vote for Biden.  I have read nothing of what he can offer the country or anything about his past record.  His history is turbulent with failures, and I see no bashing of his character for his racist comments. If those that sit on a lofty pedestal choose to ignore his behavior, his history, it would seem hypocritical.   

        This thread was telling, the transparency is blinding.

        1. Credence2 profile image81
          Credence2posted 11 months agoin reply to this

          Sharlee, if this is directed at me, I told you that as a progressive the policies of Donald Trump and the Republican Party are sheer anathema.

          And yes, the added fly in the ointment is that I dislike the man, personally, and I did not have that attitude about previous Republican presidents in so intense a way. Trump's current record is fraught with failure on several fronts, but again, that is my opinion.

          Trump's record regarding racial matters have proven much more problematic than that of Biden. Rather than say he is a racist, I would say that he exploits racial anxieties within this society to his advantage.

          Behavior and decorum is part of the job and while I did not care for the policies of neither Reagan or Bush II, they were not associated with the kind of rubbish that one finds in tabloid papers. That is the difference.

          I would not have voted for Ronald Reagan, George Bush, etc. the policies and values expressed by the Democrats are much closer to my own. And that has been true for me since the Nixon/McGovern contest of 1972.

          So what Joe Biden brings to the table at a minimum is that he is not Republican and in these times that has to be a good start.

          Your idea of what is a "good agenda" for the country and mine are two different things, and there is no objective yardstick to use saying one is better than the other. The voters will decide that.

          1. Sharlee01 profile image83
            Sharlee01posted 11 months agoin reply to this

            In my opinion, Joe Biden is not only a racist, but he is also innately racists... This video gives an example of his thoughts about human beings he calls preditors. However, one thing you might find positive in regard to Biden, he is not a republican. And I must say, I am pleased he is not...
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oDHSt-CKtc

            "I would not have voted for Ronald Reagan, George Bush, etc. the policies and values expressed by the Democrats are much closer to my own. "

            Yes, one of the example comment was yours.
            I appreciated your reply, but yet still all about the President's behavior, decorum.

            "I would not have voted for Ronald Reagan, George Bush, etc. the policies and values expressed by the Democrats are much closer to my own. "
              As I read and came to this sentence, I thought for a moment you were going to share something in regards to values you feel Democrats have.

            You followed up with another sentiment ---  "So what Joe Biden brings to the table at a minimum is that he is not Republican and in these times that has to be a good start."

            However, once again no follow up with, no explanation of "what Biden brings to the table?"

            I certainly agree we disagree on the agenda that might benefit the country, and that's Ok. But, I have articulated my thoughts about Trump's as well as Biden's agenda. 

            To repeat my sentiment --- Does it bother anyone that some in the country consider the most important quality of a president is behavior over agenda, policies?  Has the presidency become a popular competition for some? Just no need to have other qualities, such as a good agenda for the country.

            1. Credence2 profile image81
              Credence2posted 11 months agoin reply to this

              I am a Democrat, Sharlee,

              I believe in climate change and appropriate actions to protect planet Earth against the predator corporate class.

              I believe in restraints imposed on big business to protect labor and the environment. Conservatives believe that restraining laissez faire capitalism is socialism. The truth is somewhere in the middle and that is what is up to debate. I want more effort restraining laissez fair Capitalism, rather than less.

              I believe that profligate militarism and its associated expense should be contained.

              I am pro choice within the purview of Roe vs Wade.

              I believe that private academies should not be subsidized by the tax payer and support the principle of public schools as equal opportunity starts in the education system.

              I support the concept of Government as necessary for well over 300 million people within an infinitely complex society. Hooterville, as an idea and concept, simply no longer exists, except in Idaho, of course.

              if we get the special interests out of the governing process, it can be what it was always intended to be.

              Just touched on a few things, I can probably find more.

              1. Sharlee01 profile image83
                Sharlee01posted 11 months agoin reply to this

                Now that is a comment I can respect.  You offered information on your beliefs. Not just a mirage of platitudes. Although moral platitudes are often and can be interesting or thoughtful, they just don't offer a picture of substantial reasoning that can back up the moral side of a conversation.

              2. wilderness profile image97
                wildernessposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                "I want more effort restraining laissez fair Capitalism, rather than less."

                Why?  What is the long term effect of what you want?  Will it produce a better, more affluent lifestyle for all or will it produce a lowering of the standard of living for all?

                Questions the left never seem to address, for all that appears to matter is today.

                I believe that private academies should not be subsidized by the tax payer"

                Why?  If the cost to the taxpayer is no higher than a public school why do you care? Assuming, of course, that the kids get basically the same education.

                I would LOVE to get the special interests out of the governing process.  Whether it be corporations, BLM, KKK, the idiot women all dressed in white on the Democrat side of the House to show solidarity with their specific special interest, or anything else - get it out.  Not sure what that leaves for addressing legitimate concerns to the legislature, though.

      6. abwilliams profile image65
        abwilliamsposted 11 months agoin reply to this

        I'm sorry, I missed your question earlier, you had asked if I cared to comment on the subject at hand, I thought I had when I expressed my bigger concern of rioters, looters, anarchists and common criminals.... out spreading their germs, as they spread fear, chaos and mayhem.
        But, to address your specific concern of Trump Rallies. No, I would not feel horribly guilty! People attend these rallies of their own free will. No one is forcing them to attend, there are no guns pointed at their heads. IF, an individual chooses to go, but doesn't feel 100% safe, they may elect to wear protective gear; whether it be a mask, gloves, mosquito netting, a face shield...whatever makes them comfortable. I think most people attending are just happy for the opportunity to be a part of history. They are there to enjoy the experience, they do not live in fear, they are not looking for offense, they are just living life, taking the punches as they come, but not giving up/missing out on opportunities, not staying home...because of what might or might not happen.

        1. profile image0
          PrettyPantherposted 11 months agoin reply to this

          I don't expect anyone to stay home. Go do whatever you want, as long as you wear a mask and social distance, two things Trump specifically ridicules and does not require at his events.

          So glad to hear you would not feel guilty if you attended an event without a mask, ignored social distancing, and unknowingly spread the virus to multiple people. Glad to hear your conscience would be free of angst.

          1. abwilliams profile image65
            abwilliamsposted 11 months agoin reply to this

            Aren't you all about choices? I choose not to feel guilty for living my life. I am sorry that you can't understand that.

            1. profile image0
              PrettyPantherposted 11 months agoin reply to this

              I understand it completely, just not in the way you mean.

              1. abwilliams profile image65
                abwilliamsposted 11 months agoin reply to this

                What does that mean exactly?

    3. Live to Learn profile image75
      Live to Learnposted 11 months ago

      Did you see 57,000 people showed up for a Trump rally in PA?

      Without riots, without looting, without attacking police.

      I think that speaks volumes. The left doesn't care about covid exposure as long as violence accompanies their gatherings. Why are they worried about Trump rallies?

      I don't wonder.

      1. profile image0
        PrettyPantherposted 11 months agoin reply to this

        I dunno. Because he's the president and sets the tone? Just a wild guess.

    4. profile image0
      PrettyPantherposted 11 months ago

      Trump is now saying he might fire Dr. Fauci after the election. I wonder how many people think that's a good idea?

    5. Readmikenow profile image95
      Readmikenowposted 11 months ago

      "the four researchers examine infection patterns in 18 separate counties before and after they hosted Trump rallies between June 20 and Sept. 22."

      That's it?  This is bogus.

      The researchers didn't take the time to survey people who contracted Covid to see if they had been to a Trump rally.  There was no effort to connect the deaths to individual's who had attended the rally.  The only connection is the infection and deaths is there was a rally by President Donald Trump? 

      What other things were going on in these counties?  The article doesn't mention the name or location of the counties they examined.  I would like to see other counties with high infection rates with NO President Trump rallies and compare the two.

      This is pretty awful work.

      Can't take this serious.

      1. savvydating profile image90
        savvydatingposted 11 months agoin reply to this

        Right. It's a piece of garbage.

    6. abwilliams profile image65
      abwilliamsposted 11 months ago

      I am not bearded nor do I have a beer belly, but I am {always} gun-toting and have been known to get loud!

      I've just returned from voting and if the party-like atmosphere outside of the polling place is any indication of the direction this election is going...buckle up and get prepared...for our economy is about to BOOM like nobody's business!

    7. Credence2 profile image81
      Credence2posted 11 months ago

      I would expect the President of the United States to respect the advice of medical experts and behave in a fashion that sets the example and give due consideration to the health prospects of those that pile up to support him in these rallies of his.

      I don't see this.

    8. profile image0
      PrettyPantherposted 11 months ago

      A general note to those who think I value or choose appearance over policy.

      I vote for policy and character. I am very progressive and voted for Elizabeth Warren in the primaries. However, if Warren spent her time rage-tweeting, calling veterans "losers," bragging about grabbing men's crotches, and threatening to lock up her political opponents, there would be no way in hell I would consider her fit for dog catcher much less POTUS. Any person behaving that way in pretty much any job would be fired in a heartbeat,

      Trump is getting fired tonight,

    9. crankalicious profile image93
      crankaliciousposted 11 months ago

      What proof is there Republicans had no input and no opportunity to look over the shoulder during vote counts other than the President's tweets of fraud? Those rules are established before the election is my understanding. If they didn't like how far away they could stand, they could have protested before the election.

     
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