Why Conservatives hate Democracy-Part 2

Jump to Last Post 1-2 of 2 discussions (23 posts)
  1. Credence2 profile image82
    Credence2posted 3 weeks ago

    Some evidence to support my assertion as stated in the original topic "Why Conservatives hate Democracy, Part 1
    ---------
    WASHINGTON — President Donald Trump said that if the United States switched to all-mail voting, “you’d never have a Republican elected in this country again.”


    The GOP speaker of the House in Georgia said an all-mail election would be “extremely devastating to Republicans.”

    Rep. Thomas Massie, R-Ky., said universal mail voting would be “the end of our republic as we know it.”

    Trump openly admitting if we made voting easier in America, Republicans wouldn't win elections

    Trump: "The things they had in there were crazy. They had levels of voting, that if you ever agreed to it you'd never have a Republican elected in this country again." pic.twitter.com/
    ---------------
    But I think that the recent statement made by Rand Paul is far more revealing as to what is really behind the GOP claptrap about mail in voting.


    "There are only 18 days remaining before Georgia's U.S. Senate runoff elections, which will dictate control of the chamber for the next two years. Given the extraordinarily high stakes, interest in the races is high in Georgia, and early-voting turnout this week has been robust. The trend is likely to continue as activists try to bring as many voters as possible into the process."

    "But in some circles, this isn't good news. TPM yesterday highlighted Sen. Rand Paul's (R-Ky.) explaining why he's "very, very concerned" by what he's seeing in Georgia."

    "Most importantly, they're mailing out a solicitation — they're mailing everybody out a solicitation to vote by mail," Paul intoned on Fox Business Network. "This is not a state law, this is something created out of whole cloth by the Secretary of State." ... "I'm very, very concerned that if you solicit votes from typically non-voters, that you will affect and change the outcome," he continued. "So I'm very worried Democrats will control all three branches of government and really truly transform America, but not for the better."
    ---------
    (Did you see this? "I'm very, very, concerned that if you solicit votes from typical non voters, that you would affect and change the outcome" so, it is not really about fraudulent voting and all of that rot but really about people who do have the right to vote being encouraged and motivated to do so, can't have too much of that, now can we? That is the REAL message republicans and conservatives want to convey and is at the foundation of their phony claims of fraud in the last election. We don't want THOSE people encouraged to vote. As I mentioned in the first part, the GOP and Conservatives are terrified of Democratic participation. That is their Achilles heel, and the soft underbelly which I say needs to be used to undermine their schemes at every point.)

    (Common sense and little study of past tendencies are going to show you how large urban areas tend to vote. So, the candidate of choice for most of Milwaukee, Atlanta, Philadelphia and Detroit we already know. So, nobody needs to gin up a QAnon conspiracy to explain the obvious.)

    I am going in to retire to a bit of the bubbly shortly, you all have a nice evening.

    1. wilderness profile image97
      wildernessposted 3 weeks agoin reply to this

      Question for you: Do "typical non-voters", in your considered opinion, put forth the time and effort to examine the issues and candidates or do they simply vote for whatever they, in their ignorance, think will do best for them personally without regard to the needs of the country/state/city?

      1. Credence2 profile image82
        Credence2posted 3 weeks agoin reply to this

        Wilderness, who are you to evaluate what the motivation of the "so called non voter" is?

        Where do you continue to get this idea that YOU and what is best for the nation/state/municipality are one in the same?


        The idea is that everyone participates and has a voice, an idea that obviously is anathema for the Right.

        That is the antidemocratic nature of conservatives expressed in prime time.The nonvoter is selfish, while the conservative is not when they both cast their ballots? That is at the height of arrogance. I am not afraid of the outcome of more participation in the election process, why are you?

        This is an example of both a stark and fundamental difference in our world view.

        That is something you need to consider.

        1. PrettyPanther profile image83
          PrettyPantherposted 3 weeks agoin reply to this

          He is demonstrating the accuracy of your premise.

          1. Credence2 profile image82
            Credence2posted 3 weeks agoin reply to this

            Now, I am trying to bring him out of hiding so he can give us a reasonable reply

        2. wilderness profile image97
          wildernessposted 3 weeks agoin reply to this

          Was there a reason you refused to answer the question?  Do you not have an opinion there, considered or not?

          Or is it simply "obvious" to you that those people that can't take an hour from their schedule every four years to fulfill their civic duty are all Democrats that actually don't care enough to do the research to understand the issues and so will thus simply vote Democrat?

          1. Credence2 profile image82
            Credence2posted 3 weeks agoin reply to this

            It does not matter what motivation or lack of same is, everyone over the Age of 18 and an American citizen has the right to vote, that is my opinion.

            I answered your question, still, your slip is showing and it is crimson red.

            As if somehow you Republicans are the sage and knowledgeable ones relative to the Democrats? Yeah, right. Come to Colorado and let me sell you some beach front property? Who are you to qualify ignorance?

            For me, being a Republican and parroting their nonsense is at the height of ignorance and stupidly, but again that is just my opinion. 2020 is the case in point.

            And you don't have to have a genius IQ to vote for a Democratic candidate based on that premise.

            Come on, Wilderness, you can't really believe the stuff you put out there?

      2. PrettyPanther profile image83
        PrettyPantherposted 3 weeks agoin reply to this

        There is no way to know what motivates each individual voter and it matters not one whit anyway. How many people vote solely on the abortion issue? A bunch. Everyone has a right to their vote, no matter how they arrive at their choice.

        1. wilderness profile image97
          wildernessposted 3 weeks agoin reply to this

          Same question as to Credence: do you really have no opinion on whether people that fail to take an hour every four years to do their civic duty have actually studied the issues and will cast a reasoned vote, whether Democrat or Republican?

          1. PrettyPanther profile image83
            PrettyPantherposted 3 weeks agoin reply to this

            I'm trying to tell you that my opinion on a voter's ability or motivation to make a wise decision is meaningless. I think I've made it pretty clear that I believe quite a large chunk of Trump voters were motivated by fear of losing their top dog status in our sociery. You, on the other hand, think a good chunk of  Democrat voters just want freebies. In the end, it doesn't matter what motivates a voter. It is their constitutional right to vote.

            You will never hear me grouse about a person's right to vote, even if  I despise their apparent motivation.

    2. Ken Burgess profile image91
      Ken Burgessposted 3 weeks agoin reply to this

      I am so over the Republican idiocy in Congress, most especially the Senate.

      And this is going back to 2016/17 when after YEARS of running on promises to repeal the ACA, as their TOP priority, when given the chance they shat all over the people who voted for them, for just that reason... especially the people in Arizona, who were getting destroyed by 100% yearly inflation on what they were charged for their AFFORDABLE care.

      And that worthless traitor to America and Arizonians chose to vote against Repeal, he was an embodiment of every sellout in DC... of which Congress is primarily made up of... politicians that sell out Americans every chance they get.

      But these damned idiot Republican Senators... knowing that their Majority hold in the Senate is on the line... slam down giving the people $2,000 dollars right before these run offs.

      So... if you didn't know... they have given over SIX TRILLION dollars to the BANKS and INVESTMENT FIRMS since March 2020.

      Over 30% of ALL dollars in existence were created in 2020...  90% of that went to Banks and Wall St Firms.

      There is your friggin stimulus... while everyone is out of work, FORCED out of work by States locking everything down... they give what wealth is left to give to the 1%... and you can be sure they will try to tax every person who owns a home or small business out the wazoo to pay for it.

      But... as they destroy our country.... they can't even give people $2,000 when they are giving away trillions.

      Lets get this "change" on the road... when the Republicans in the Senate are being that idiotic and that ignorant they dammed well don't deserve to be winning any elections in the future.

      I hope you enjoyed the bubbly and long weekend, be safe out there, 2021 is going to make 2020 look positively cheeky.

      https://cointelegraph.com/news/us-print … -centuries

      https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics … -spending/

      1. Credence2 profile image82
        Credence2posted 2 weeks agoin reply to this

        Well, Happy New Year, Ken.

        Yes, it is a rotten system and the Republicans are at its head. At this point I can hope that in all the stupidity and confusion between "Republicans and Trumpers, that we can befuddle enoughRepublican voters to make sure that the winning senators in Georgia are Democrats. This to insure that the GOP and any and all of its aspirations are totally and completely defeated.

        McConnell and his stingy stand taken contrary to the desire of King Donald will have every GOP in GA. taking sides, I say divide and conquer.

        How dumb does it get, Ken? That this major political party simply wants to coronate Trump as King contrary to the will of the majority of the voters. Who do these people think they are?

        What is even dumber is the idea that the rest of us are going to accept this without fanfare?

  2. Live to Learn profile image79
    Live to Learnposted 3 weeks ago

    What Trump meant was democrats cheat so brazenly that mail in voting would ensure they had ample opportunity to cheat their way into office.

    Since your first assertion was so wildly off base and your title completely laughable, I see no reason to waste time with the rest.

    1. Credence2 profile image82
      Credence2posted 3 weeks agoin reply to this

      That is BS, what about the rest of the statements? Never let anyone think that you are "impartial"

      Laughable, but true.....

      1. Live to Learn profile image79
        Live to Learnposted 3 weeks agoin reply to this

        If you pick up a novel and the first chapter is poorly worded, ill thought drivel do you continue reading to the end?

        I don't. I wouldn't think that implies bias,on my part. I just have better things to do than read through bs.

        1. Credence2 profile image82
          Credence2posted 3 weeks agoin reply to this

          You never can take it seriously because it is something that the Right winged oriented mind cannot accept without attempt to misdirect from the obvious.

          You find yourself firmly in the clutches of rightwing think. We all know that now, but it is a free country.

          1. Live to Learn profile image79
            Live to Learnposted 3 weeks agoin reply to this

            "We all know that."

            ?? Exactly how many mice are in your pocket? Or, is that the royal "we"?

            Just curious.

    2. PrettyPanther profile image83
      PrettyPantherposted 3 weeks agoin reply to this

      Since Democrats cheat so brazenly it ought to be easy to catch them and prosecute them. Why hasn't this happened?

      That is not what Trump meant. This massive election fraud conspiracy theory is right up there in Crazyland with the astronauts didn't land on the moon. Actually, it's far worse because it's a lie being brazenly (love that word, properly used here) promoted, actually invented by the President of the United States and parroted by his followers even though it has been disproven.

      1. wilderness profile image97
        wildernessposted 3 weeks agoin reply to this

        Been disproven?  By whom?  Who investigated the stories from those dozens of eyewitnesses of fraud?  Who has thoroughly checked the software of the machines?  Who has confirmed that those same machines did NOT change votes?  Who has verified that all applicable state laws were followed, specifically as to when mail in ballots would be accepted?  Who has verified that ballot dates were neither changed nor written in?

        1. Live to Learn profile image79
          Live to Learnposted 3 weeks agoin reply to this

          That's the part I find to be the most offensive. Average Americans, testifying before their state houses, pointing out incident after incident of blatant fraud. Clear evidence of states allowing the process to play out brazenly outside of the laws of those states.

          The left has opened a can of worms so publicly that it cannot be ignored by reasonable people. But, reasonable people are loathe to crawl into that can of worms with them. What's done is done. I can't see a fair remedy. We can't hold another election. We can't disenfranchise any percentage of fairly cast votes, in an attempt to correct the lawless behavior observed.

          I'm not asking for anything other than what I consider to be a reasonable outcome. That is, let's collectively agree we will never allow another election so muddied by fraud to happen again. Without a collective acceptance of the testimony heard and an attempt to clean up the mess, I'm open to listening to other ideas that will allow reasonable people an alternative to lies and insults by the party rabidly in pursuit of power,at whatever the cost to our republic, moving forward.

          One can only shake their head so much before they seek remedy.

          1. wilderness profile image97
            wildernessposted 3 weeks agoin reply to this

            I told my son and his wife last night that I could accept the results of this election...but I damn well want a full investigation into any fraudulent activity, and punishment for those that participated in it.

            My reasoning is similar to yours; the election cannot be redone and to disenfranchise millions of people because of the actions of a few is unreasonable.  But at the same time, simply accepting those actions is even more unreasonable, and I demand that it never happen again.

        2. PrettyPanther profile image83
          PrettyPantherposted 3 weeks agoin reply to this

          My, this is SO tiresome. Look it up.

          1. wilderness profile image97
            wildernessposted 3 weeks agoin reply to this

            No thanks; 100% of what I've already seen indicates that no one inside the justice system has looked at anything Trump's team has provided them.  Just dismissed the cases out of hand for procedural reasons.

            The closest I've come to seeing any real investigation is that the voting machines ARE easily hackable, ARE easily changed, ARE woefully inadequate for the security an election needs...but that no significant amount of changing or false recording was found.  Of course, there has been no in-depth check of the machines, either; just a cursory check of the software which indicated very poor security.

 
working

This website uses cookies

As a user in the EEA, your approval is needed on a few things. To provide a better website experience, hubpages.com uses cookies (and other similar technologies) and may collect, process, and share personal data. Please choose which areas of our service you consent to our doing so.

For more information on managing or withdrawing consents and how we handle data, visit our Privacy Policy at: https://maven.io/company/pages/privacy

Show Details
Necessary
HubPages Device IDThis is used to identify particular browsers or devices when the access the service, and is used for security reasons.
LoginThis is necessary to sign in to the HubPages Service.
Google RecaptchaThis is used to prevent bots and spam. (Privacy Policy)
AkismetThis is used to detect comment spam. (Privacy Policy)
HubPages Google AnalyticsThis is used to provide data on traffic to our website, all personally identifyable data is anonymized. (Privacy Policy)
HubPages Traffic PixelThis is used to collect data on traffic to articles and other pages on our site. Unless you are signed in to a HubPages account, all personally identifiable information is anonymized.
Amazon Web ServicesThis is a cloud services platform that we used to host our service. (Privacy Policy)
CloudflareThis is a cloud CDN service that we use to efficiently deliver files required for our service to operate such as javascript, cascading style sheets, images, and videos. (Privacy Policy)
Google Hosted LibrariesJavascript software libraries such as jQuery are loaded at endpoints on the googleapis.com or gstatic.com domains, for performance and efficiency reasons. (Privacy Policy)
Features
Google Custom SearchThis is feature allows you to search the site. (Privacy Policy)
Google MapsSome articles have Google Maps embedded in them. (Privacy Policy)
Google ChartsThis is used to display charts and graphs on articles and the author center. (Privacy Policy)
Google AdSense Host APIThis service allows you to sign up for or associate a Google AdSense account with HubPages, so that you can earn money from ads on your articles. No data is shared unless you engage with this feature. (Privacy Policy)
Google YouTubeSome articles have YouTube videos embedded in them. (Privacy Policy)
VimeoSome articles have Vimeo videos embedded in them. (Privacy Policy)
PaypalThis is used for a registered author who enrolls in the HubPages Earnings program and requests to be paid via PayPal. No data is shared with Paypal unless you engage with this feature. (Privacy Policy)
Facebook LoginYou can use this to streamline signing up for, or signing in to your Hubpages account. No data is shared with Facebook unless you engage with this feature. (Privacy Policy)
MavenThis supports the Maven widget and search functionality. (Privacy Policy)
Marketing
Google AdSenseThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Google DoubleClickGoogle provides ad serving technology and runs an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Index ExchangeThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
SovrnThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Facebook AdsThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Amazon Unified Ad MarketplaceThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
AppNexusThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
OpenxThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Rubicon ProjectThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
TripleLiftThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Say MediaWe partner with Say Media to deliver ad campaigns on our sites. (Privacy Policy)
Remarketing PixelsWe may use remarketing pixels from advertising networks such as Google AdWords, Bing Ads, and Facebook in order to advertise the HubPages Service to people that have visited our sites.
Conversion Tracking PixelsWe may use conversion tracking pixels from advertising networks such as Google AdWords, Bing Ads, and Facebook in order to identify when an advertisement has successfully resulted in the desired action, such as signing up for the HubPages Service or publishing an article on the HubPages Service.
Statistics
Author Google AnalyticsThis is used to provide traffic data and reports to the authors of articles on the HubPages Service. (Privacy Policy)
ComscoreComScore is a media measurement and analytics company providing marketing data and analytics to enterprises, media and advertising agencies, and publishers. Non-consent will result in ComScore only processing obfuscated personal data. (Privacy Policy)
Amazon Tracking PixelSome articles display amazon products as part of the Amazon Affiliate program, this pixel provides traffic statistics for those products (Privacy Policy)
ClickscoThis is a data management platform studying reader behavior (Privacy Policy)