Election Integrity 2024! What's happeing on the battle front?
‘They Are Miles Ahead’: Despite ‘Election Integrity’ Hype, GOP Could Be Walking Into 2024 Legal Buzzsaw by the Daily Caller (Mar 14, 2024)
https://dailycaller.com/2024/03/14/repu … h8QW8SmTL0
Phew! About a 4,000 word article or somewhere around a 16 minute read. I moved from a cup of coffee to a can of Zero Coke for that one.
For enticement follows the opening:
"Republicans are walking a tightrope heading into the 2024 election.
They must show their base that they are fighting hard on the issue of election integrity, which many conservatives believe cost former President Donald Trump his 2020 re-election bid.
Simultaneously, they must operate in the reality that they now live in the world of ballot harvesting and drop-boxes.
That dichotomy is why the Republican National Committee (RNC) told the Daily Caller they are committed to prioritizing election integrity efforts between now and November. They are waging lawsuits on issues ranging from ballot access to voting rules. Yet the party is also heavily pushing its “Bank Your Vote” initiative, encouraging Republicans to vote early."
Note: At the end of the OP is a link to the 'Bank Your Vote' initiative
As you read a lot acronyms to remember. ha-ha
The concluding paragraphs are:
"“Our ultimate goal is, I don’t think that we’re looking to set a blanket regime of election laws across the country. I don’t think that that’s realistic. We as conservatives and Republicans have a very strong belief that elections are to be left to the states to make up their minds on how to run those,” Helton said.
Regardless, time remains, and the parties leading the effort are remaining optimistic about their chances.
“You asked the question, are we in this position where we’re going to be told it’s too late to challenge things, like again in 2020. Hopefully not,” Lyons told the Daily Caller."
One element to mention is that courts will be busy!!
To add to the information gathering fun take a peek at the article next recommended by the article above.
Scoop: House GOP gets a jump start to protect 21 swing seats by Axios (Jan 11, 2024)
https://www.axios.com/2024/01/11/swing- … -2024-nrcc
This is short and concise about a 5 minute read.
So, what do you think about the battle plans drawn up by the Republicans/Conservatives?
Feelings or thoughts of contrast/compare of election integrity vs. access
Quoting from the article: "They are waging lawsuits on issues ranging from ballot access to voting rules. Yet the party is also heavily pushing its “Bank Your Vote” initiative, encouraging Republicans to vote early."
RNC Launches “Bank Your Vote” Campaign by the RNC (Jun 7, 2023)
https://gop.com/press-release/rnc-launc … -campaign/
Thoughts / Discussion?Thanks for the info, though not needed. Maybe someone else is interested.
Russia offered online voting in their recent "election". Something we should emulate? I'm not really looking for the US to follow the lead of any of the countries mentioned, especially Russia, the Middle East and the banana republics that litter the southern hemisphere. Because other nations have encountered fraud with mail- in voting certainly does not mean we would experience the same. We simply manage it better . Voter fraud is very rare, whether people vote in person or by mail. That much is clear from a large body of research. There's just no basis for the conspiracy theory that voting by mail causes fraud. The Nations mentioned could learn a lot from us.
But fraud isn't really the concern at all is it? The goal is voter suppression. Listen to the voter suppression advocates. Robert Spindell, a GOP member of the Wisconsin Elections Commission, bragged to fellow Republicans that “we can be especially proud” of the lower turnout in Milwaukee, “with the major reductions happening in the overwhelming Black and Hispanic” areas.
Voter suppression is a republican strategy camouflaged is a concern for "voter fraud".
https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/ … fraud-myth
https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/38 … atic-wins/Fraud is at the very heart of why Mail In Ballots are wanted by "the Left" and fraud is exactly what occurs in every election that allows mass Mail In Ballots.
Mail-In Voting Fraud Exposed in Recent Rasmussen Survey
A recent survey conducted by Rasmussen Reports and The Heartland Institute reveals that over 20% of individuals who voted via mail-in ballots in the 2020 election admit to engaging in some form of election fraud.
The study, which was conducted online and via telephone, found that 21% of likely U.S. voters who voted by mail-in or absentee ballot in the 2020 election admit to filling out a ballot on behalf of a friend or family member.
The survey also found that 19% of those who voted by mail-in ballot had a friend or family member fill out their ballot, and 17% of mail-in voters admit to casting a ballot in a state where they were no longer a permanent resident. Both of these practices are illegal, as noted by officials from The Heartland Institute
https://gvwire.com/2023/12/13/mail-in-v … en-survey/
Database Swells to 1,285 Proven Cases of Voter Fraud in America
All-mail elections have received heightened attention in the media these past few weeks. Prominent liberals highly endorse the idea, claiming it allows people to do their patriotic duty without risking being infected by the coronavirus.
In reality, without rigid safeguards to prevent fraud, misuse, and voter intimidation, absentee ballot fraud —while it may occur sporadically—already has affected the outcome of elections in states and counties across the country.
https://www.heritage.org/election-integ … ud-america
Absentee ballots’ use, possible abuse, called ‘art form’ in Bridgeport
The issue: Absentee ballot irregularities.
https://ctmirror.org/2023/09/20/bridgep … mes-fraud/Rasmussen? A notoriously bad polling/propaganda outlet.
The poll question asked,
"During the 2020 election did you fill out a ballot in part or in full, on behalf of a friend or family member, such as a spouse or child?"
21% who voted by mail answered yes. BUT many states, allow family members to fill out a ballot in part or in full on behalf of a family member.
is it fraud?
It should be noted that 20% of Americans are functionally illiterate. They can't fill out a ballot unaided. Do they get to vote? What about the blind? the arthritic ones who can't hold a pen how do you help a person vote without filling out at least part of the ballot?
This poll is certainly not detailed enough to draw any conclusions. But also it is an incorrect use of polling.
Using a poll to understand verifiable factual information about a topic or issue is a terrible application of polling. For instance, we could take a poll of 50 people in a room with no windows on the question of whether it was raining outside. No matter what data we get from the poll, it is irrelevant to the factual matter of whether it is indeed raining.
Comprehensive studies of billions of ballots cast over many years indicate that the rate of voter fraud is less than 0.0001%.
And, so goes the battle! Fresh off the press just now . . .
RNC Sues Michigan Secretary Of State Jocelyn Benson Over Voter Registration Rolls
by the Daily Caller (Mar 14, 2024)
https://dailycaller.com/2024/03/14/rnc- … vOJIS9kt2Z
Opening paragraphs . . .
"The Republican National Committee (RNC) sued Michigan Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson on Wednesday in an effort to address the swing state’s voter register rolls, according to a press release.
The RNC’s lawsuit alleges that the state is failing to abide by the National Voter Registration Act’s (NVRA) requirement that voter rolls must keep “clean and accurate voter registration records.” Under the NVRA, states must make a “reasonable effort” to remove people who are ineligible to vote from their voter rolls as a part of their duty to maintain a “general voter registration list maintenance program.”
“Election integrity starts with clean voter rolls, and that’s why the National Voter Registration Act requires state officials to keep their rolls accurate and up-to-date. Jocelyn Benson has failed to follow the NVRA, leaving Michigan with inflated and inaccurate voter rolls ahead of the 2024 election. The RNC is filing this key lawsuit because Michigan voters deserve clean voter rolls and confidence in their elections,” Michael Whatley, chairman of the RNC, said in the press release."Close to hot off the press from the Daily Caller on the evolving election integrity battle front.
Lara Trump Announces RNC Hiring Scott Presler To Lead Legal Ballot Chasing Operations by the Daily Caller (Mar 15, 2024)
"Recently elected Republican National Committee (RNC) Co-chair Lara Trump announced Friday on Daily Caller alumnus Benny Johnson’s show that the party would be hiring popular conservative influencer Scott Presler to lead legal ballot chasing operations.
After the 2020 election concluded and outlets started to name now-President Joe Biden the winner, many Republicans pointed to election laws changed and ignored during the COVID-19 pandemic as a reason for the outcome. Johnson asked Trump to describe the efforts the RNC is planning to take ahead of November to ensure that Americans trust in the election system. In describing the party’s efforts to chase ballots, Trump announced that Presler would be heading the initiative"
Shortly following we have . . .
"Presler, a conservative activist, started the “Early Vote Action” organization, which focuses on mobilizing Republicans to participate in early voting efforts. The efforts are concentrated to key swing states such as Arizona, Nevada, North Carolina, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin."
Early Vote Action website landing page at link next
https://earlyvoteaction.com/
From the About page we see . . .
Early Vote Action PAC (“EVA”) was created to achieve a strict purpose — organize & mobilize Republicans to vote early, so that by the time Election Day rolls around, the Republican victory is already baked in.
At EVA, we’re intent on marshaling the time, labor, and resources of conservatives around the country to achieve this goal in 2024, with a specific focus on the key swing states of Arizona, Nevada, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin.
The foremost goal for Republicans in 2024 is to take back the White House, and the path to 270 Electoral College votes runs through these five key swing states.
If we win these swing states, Republicans will retake the Senate, strengthen our hold on the House, retake the North Carolina Governor’s Mansion, retake the Nevada Legislature, strengthen our holds on the other respective states’ legislatures, and see victories in down-ballot races at the county and local levels.
It will be efficient, precise trickle-down organizing & mobilizing.
Importantly, also, at EVA we’re working to ensure that Republicans from every state are operating not merely as 50 disjointed operations, but rather as one team of concerned American conservatives fighting to win the necessary electoral fights to retake our country.
Because if we retake these five key states, we can continue our movement’s march into every state across the country with powerful momentum, until every state on the map is ruby Republican red!
Whether you’re in Tulsa or Jersey City, Bar Harbor or Anchorage, at EVA we are ready to connect with you to organize teams of conservative Americans, build phone banks and letter writing centers, provide the requisite data to engage with the voters we need to get to the polls, and get them to the polls early.
We’re ready to win, and we’re intent on ensuring that our path to victory begins on the day ballots go out.
To reach this goal, we need you on our team, because when we organize and mobilize we win.Trump's RNC officially kills the GOP's mail-in voter effort by MSNBC (Mar 13, 2024)
https://www.msnbc.com/the-reidout/reido … rcna143291
[Note: A somewhat short read]
The Trump-branded Republican Party is less interested in promoting voting by mail than in legal challenges aimed at voting systems.
"In a victory for the extremist wing of the Republican Party, it looks like Donald Trump’s hand-picked leadership team at the Republican National Committee has officially scrapped the GOP’s plan to encourage early voting this election cycle. Instead, the party is taking steps to prioritize legal challenges to voting systems ahead of November."
Questions: Are we seeing a split between factions within the GOP? Does this bit and byte of news mean the Trump crowd are discouraging early voting? Unsure, what the blurb means. Thoughts?
"As part of the layoffs and budget cuts carried out this week by the newly installed leadership team, they are shuttering a program dedicated to mail-in voting, according to The Washington Post. The significance, of course, is that Trump has pushed false claims that mail-in voting is rife with voter fraud since 2020, months before he lost the election to Joe Biden. Ever since the election, Trump has continued to spread conspiracy theories that mail-in voter fraud cost him that race. In reality, there’s ample evidence that allowing people to vote by mail doesn’t have a partisan effect (and if it does, data shows the impact appears to favor Republicans).
The linked data shows the impact appears to favor Republicans is a study published at Sage Journals, Vote-by-mail policy and the 2020 presidential election (Apr 30, 2022)
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.117 … 0221089197
At the ending discussion comes . . .
"Overall, the turnout effects of these reforms are small and often model dependent, while the partisan effects are generally weak and sometimes even favor Republicans. Mailing every voter a ballot is the one exception here: either because it makes voting easier or because it alerts voters to the upcoming election, mailing every voter a ballot does have a fairly large positive effect on voting. These findings for universal VBM and no-excuse VBM are broadly consistent with findings from before the pandemic. Policy decisions should be considered with these broader conclusions in mind."
VBM = Vote by Mail
Is it a case of cutting off one's nose in spite of one's face? Curious?Fresh off the press comes what the other side from the RNC is saying.
Republicans Prepare a New Wave of Legal Attacks on Voting by Democracy Docket (May 20, 2024) by Marc Elias
https://www.democracydocket.com/opinion … on-voting/
Who is Marc Elias? From the article, of course written with bias we have . . .
"As a result, I [Marc Elias] have come to occupy an odd place in the Republican Party’s fevered imagination. They both loath my work and admire my skill. They assign me extraordinary powers I do not possess.
In one dramatic instance, conservative political commentator Lou Dobbs suggested in 2020 that Trump’s campaign pay me $500,000,000 to simply stop litigating against them. Since then, Steve Bannon has called me the “gold standard” and implored me to “switch sides.” He routinely chastises his own party’s lawyers for not being as tough or successful as I am.
Last week, the conservative Daily Caller reported the often repeated right-wing lament that “It is evident from dozens of operatives working on election integrity within the Republican sphere that there is no Marc Elias of the right.”
Marc Elias from Wikipedia. Yes, some discredit Wiki, alas it bears enough truth.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Elias
If curious what is on the docket go to the link next for current cases representing both Democrats and Republicans on the battles of election integrity.
Court Cases
Learn more about the lawsuits shaping voting rights, redistricting and elections by exploring Democracy Docket’s comprehensive database of cases. Click on any case to find a brief summary of the lawsuit and all relevant filings in the “case documents” section.
https://www.democracydocket.com/cases/
There is a lot going on behind the scenes in the courts we are not aware of that will shape the November ballot.
Is it worth it to be aware of them?
Will it be money well worth spent by the RNC / Republican effort?
Do you think/feel it is important no matter what party you align with to maintain voting integrity such as following the correct voter rolls purges?
Thoughts?They finally found some voter fraud in Georgia:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 … ally-finedValeant: Finally our tax dollars at work. They've only done a dozen audits!
There was election fraud that led to indictments. The number of fraudulent votes did not change the election outcome.
"September 11th, 2020 https://sos.ga.gov/news/state-election- … secution-0
(Atlanta) – The State Election Board on Wednesday referred 35 cases of election-law violations to the attorney general or local district attorneys for criminal prosecution.
“Election fraud is not tolerated in Georgia. When there is evidence of it, the people responsible face prosecution,” said Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger, chairman of the five-member board. “Georgia has multiple safeguards in place that allow our team of investigators to discover fraudulent voting. They worked to catch the wrongdoing in these cases, and they maintain the security of Georgia elections.”
The Secretary of State’s Office investigation division has 23 sworn officers with arrest power and vast experience as detectives in law enforcement. They impartially investigate allegations of voting irregularities and present their findings to the Board, which can levy fines, issue a letter of instruction or refer the case for prosecution.
Among the cases bound over for prosecution Wednesday were four incidents of felons voting or registering to vote, four cases of non-citizens voting or registering to vote and one case of misplaced ballots during the 2020 general election, which didn’t change the outcome but did affect the total. Also bound over for prosecution were canvassers for two organizations trying to register people to vote, including one who allegedly submitted registration applications they knew were false.
Of those bound over for prosecution Wednesday for alleged violations of Georgia election law, the most noteworthy are:
· The New Georgia Project which allegedly submitted 1,268 voter registration applications after the 10-day deadline, causing voters to be disenfranchised in the March 19, 2019 special election
· Samunta S of Atlanta for allegedly submitting 70 false voter registration applications while canvassing for the Coalition for the People’s Agenda
· Floyd J and the Fayette County Board of Elections and Voter Registration where he was director at the time for alleged improper handling of four memory cards registering 2,760 votes in the Nov. 3, 2020 general election
· Joseph B of Atlanta for allegedly registering to vote while serving a felony sentence
· Hassan M of Decatur for allegedly voting while serving a felony sentence
· Michael W of Columbus for allegedly voting while serving a felony sentence
· Brian P of Cherry Log for allegedly voting while serving a felony sentence
· Talibah B of Lilburn for allegedly submitting a false voter registration application
· Sharmaine S of Lithonia for allegedly submitting a false voter registration application
· Sophia S of Valdosta for allegedly voting in another person’s name
· Albert N of Winder for allegedly voting as a non-citizen
· Sean W of Covington for allegedly voting as a non-citizen
· Clifton S of Fairburn for allegedly registering to vote as a non-citizen
· Hurlstone H of Locust Grove for allegedly voting as a non-citizen
Georgia is recognized as a national leader in elections. It was the first state in the country to implement the trifecta of automatic voter registration, at least 16 days of early voting (which has been called the “gold standard”), and no-excuse absentee voting. Georgia continues to set records for voter turnout and election participation, seeing the largest increase in average turnout of any other state in the 2018 midterm election and record turnout in 2020, with over 1.3 million absentee by mail voters and over 3.6 million in-person voters utilizing Georgia’s new, secure, paper ballot voting system."
Election Integrity; Two perspectives One is conservative the other progressive liberal.
Ensuring Fair and Honest Elections in 2024 by The Heritage Foundation [conservative] (Nov27, 2023)
https://www.heritage.org/election-integ … tions-2024
Key Takeaways
** It’s not too late for states to improve the security and integrity of their election process to the benefit of all voters.
** States should ensure that election officials maintain current, accurate voter rolls. They should require photo identification to vote, both in person and absentee.
** No state in the country has a perfect score of 100, which means everyone has some work to do.
Excerpt; opening paragraph
"The 2024 primary season is already in full swing, but it’s not too late for states to improve the security and integrity of their election process to the benefit of all voters, no matter their political preferences. The American public wants and deserves an election system in which the candidates who get the most legitimate votes of eligible voters are declared the winners, and elections are not marred by errors, fraud, and other serious issues and misbehavior that make voters and candidates question the legitimacy of election outcomes."
See there Election Integrity Score Card for states at the link next;
https://www.heritage.org/electionscorecard/index.html
Securing the 2024 Election by the Brennan Center for Justice (Progressive/Liberal)
https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/ … 4-election
Excerpt; opening paragraph . . .
"What are the gravest threats to the security and integrity of U.S. elections? Over the past decade, the answer to that question has evolved. In addition to foreign cyberattacks and influence campaigns, dangers such as intimidation of election workers and conspiracy theorists assuming election administration positions now put U.S. democracy at risk. In the lead-up to the next presidential election, the United States must adjust to this changed landscape and ensure that the democratic process is protected when the nation goes to the polls.
What are the differences?
What are the likenesses?
ThoughtsKen, I understand your perspective, and it's valid. As someone who leans towards common sense conservatism, I believe in the adage "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." While I acknowledge that mail-in voting served a purpose during the COVID pandemic when many were housebound, ill, or fearful of contracting the virus, I believe it's time for our voting laws to revert to their pre-COVID state.
These laws had been effective for decades, and it seems unreasonable to assume they suddenly wouldn't be effective again. Many other nations don't have as lenient voting laws as we've adopted, which raises questions about why some Americans now advocate for changes that could potentially open the door to fraud.
I've personally found mail-in voting convenient and have used it for years. However, obtaining this privilege required me to complete forms, provide a picture ID, and update information regularly. These requirements weren't overly burdensome, and I don't believe it's unfair to expect individuals to fulfill such simple tasks to exercise their right to vote by mail. It's not a daunting hurdle for the majority, and I don't want to diminish anyone's intelligence by suggesting otherwise. I think mail-in is a convenient way to vote, if measures are taken to apply to do so. I don't feel that just sending out all registered voters a mail-in is wise. I feel some fraud could occur if voter registration rolls are not frequently checked for activity, and if the person still lives in a given state, and are they alive.
I am thankful that some states have sensible voting laws, and yes some have tweaked their voting laws a bit, but common sense has reigned in many red states. Michigan has good absentee voting laws. I always check my vote after the fact."While I acknowledge that mail-in voting served a purpose during the COVID pandemic when many were housebound, ill, or fearful of contracting the virus, I believe it's time for our voting laws to revert to their pre-COVID state."
But if we look to history...
The first allowance for civilian absentee voting was in Vermont in 1896. By 1938, 42 states allowed absentee voting for civilians. Nearly 2% of voters in the 1936 election voted through absentee ballots. Starting in the 1970s, more states began to offer no-excuse absentee voting, allowing voters the ability to vote absentee without needing an excuse.
Voting by mail has been with us for a very long time.
https://www.history.com/news/vote-by-mail-soldiers-warIt seems there may have been a misunderstanding regarding my earlier comment. This ongoing issue has prompted me to express my views on absentee voting. I want to clarify that I am in favor of it as a positive option. Personally, I have utilized mail-in voting for many years due to frequent travel abroad. Maintaining this privilege requires periodic documentation updates to confirm my residency and eligibility.
While some states like California automatically send ballots to registered voters, I do have concerns about their procedures for verifying current addresses, residency status, and vital status. I acknowledge that these concerns may already be addressed within California's system.
Regarding the issue of mail-in voting's relevance, I want to emphasize that my comment acknowledged its long-standing practice. I specifically mentioned the COVID-19 pandemic and the temporary necessity for the need to accommodate voters for various reasons. We had mass mailing of unsolicited absentee ballot applications distribution. I felt this was fair, but could result in some fraud. Many who did not vote mail-in had the option with the applications to do so. It was clear appearing in person to fill out forms or trying to get the form online would promote problems. Especially during COVID-19. I believe it was a necessary adaptation at that time. I don't feel this mass mailing of applications is needed at this point. I think Michigan has reverted to the laws on the books.
Overall, my intent was not to oppose changes implemented during the pandemic or to disregard the established practice of mail-in voting. I hope this clarifies my perspective on the matter. I do feel our voting laws should be individually considered by citizens in individual states. If the people feel they want new voting laws, they need to stand up and be heard. If they like their current laws so be it.
It would seem you may have not understood the context I was shareing.I appreciate the clarification. I find it very concerning that many today cast doubt or make claims of fraud on mail in balloting.
Does it actually increase fraud?
"According to the Brennan Center for Justice, there is no evidence that mail balloting increases electoral fraud as there are several anti-fraud protections built into the process designed to make it difficult to impersonate voters or steal ballots. These provisions include requiring people requesting absentee ballots to be registered voters, mailing ballots to the official address listed on voter registration rolls, requiring voter signatures on the external envelope, and having election authorities make sure the ballot came from the address of an actual voter. If a ballot appears questionable, some states use a signature matching technique to verify the signature of the voter. These steps make it difficult to engage in fraud on a widespread basis. "
For years, military personnel stationed abroad have voted by absentee ballot with virtually no claims of election fraud. The procedures that already are in use safeguard against abuse and ensure the integrity of the voting process.
The legitimacy of voting by mail is being politicized. 20 years of data shows no link between mailed ballots and illegal voting.
"If voting by mail creates more opportunities for fraud, those opportunities do not appear to have been realized in the data,” George Mason University assistant professor Jonathan Auerbach and Stephen Pierson, director of science policy for the American Statistical Association, wrote in their 2021 analysis for ASA’s journal, Statistics and Public Policy.
The statisticians are not saying voter fraud does not exist. They are showing — with state-by-state data from 2000 through 2019 — that it is exceptionally rare. When illegal voting has occurred, their charts reveal, it usually involves no more than several dozen ballots. That volume is nowhere near the thousands of votes that would have been needed to alter the closest recent presidential election margins."
I find it disturbing that we have a sector of the country advocating for getting rid of mail in balloting or wrongly casting doubt on its legitimacy when there is absolutely nothing to back up these claims.
States and localities have had mitigations in place to catch any potential cases of fraud, those mitigations have been in place for decades and they work.
https://thefulcrum.us/electoral-reforms … ud-3287905
https://www.brookings.edu/articles/how- … ion-fraud/I appreciate your thorough research and sensible response. Preserving the ability to vote via absentee ballots is crucial to me. While I believe there has been election fraud occurring over the years, I don't think it significantly alters election outcomes. Each state maintains records of voter fraud cases, detailing the type of fraud and any resulting indictments. While I don't have a link handy, I found the information through Google.
Regarding the 2020 election, I haven't personally seen any credible evidence supporting the fraud claims made by Trump. I believe in relying on evidence to form conclusions.
Voting is a privilege that I highly value, and I would go to great lengths to vote in person if I were in the US. Otherwise, I would want the option to vote absentee. (I needed to vote absentee in the primary) I advocate for making voting accessible to all eligible citizens, as long as they adhere to the necessary verification processes according to state laws. Ensuring that voter registration laws align with citizenship requirements is important.
While some states may choose to allow non-citizens to vote in local elections, I believe it's within a state's rights to determine its own laws, and citizens have the power to influence those laws through voting. If citizens feel disenfranchised, they can vote out lawmakers who don't align with their views on voting rights. If lawmakers have restricted our freedoms, it's essential to vote them out of office. While this process may require time and effort, it sends a powerful message to both current and future leaders.
There was a time when I leaned very liberal, advocating loudly for our causes and striving to eliminate those who didn't align with common sense. I protested Vietnam, I watched years old burn their draft card, I watched my husband go to that war, I even burned my bra, I wore bell bottoms... However, as time passed, it seems that common sense became less prevalent in our discourse. And now, here I am... quite a change, isn't it? LOL.
I've come to understand that voting is a crucial tool available to all of us, especially when it seems like our options are limited and our issues are overwhelming. Despite the disappointing choices and the confusion surrounding us, the only way forward is to persistently demand change. Maintaining the status quo is simply not an option we can afford.
I enjoy your input, sometimes I might not fully agree, but you always leave me with food for thought.
Yup, and those that advocate most strongly for 'Mail in Ballots' are those who know they cannot win elections in 'toss up states' without the fraud that they allow.
I am not referring to Absentee ballots where specific criteria of necessity are met but mass Mail in Ballots. In those elections, no trust of the result is possible, no proof of validity is achievable.Actually, those that advocate against mail-in ballots are the ones that know they need to suppress as many votes as possible because their policies are so disliked by voters. And who are we kidding, no MAGA will ever trust elections again thanks to Trump's falsities that his supporters gobble up like candy, no matter how fabricated the lies are.
"Those that advocate against . . . "
Hold on there Sparky. Your "those" is a little too broad.
I advocate against our current mail-in ballot structure and it has nothing to do with wanting to suppress voters and very little to do with voter fraud.
Folks speak of our right to vote so righteously as a basic right and with such assurance that it is almost a 'freebie' right. It's not. It's a seriously important right. Serious responsibility should come with it.
If you can make it to the poll you should respect your responsibility within that privilege and go to the polls — not lick a stamp because it's more convenient.
Now, for the rest of the story . . .
I'm not really against all mail-in balloting. I was comfortable with the general pre-pandemic absentee ballot exceptions that required a reason, but I am not comfortable with the post-pandemic mail-in ballot situation. The wording choice even notes a difference in public perspective. Absentee balloting vs. mail-in balloting — do they mean the same thing, or does the word choice carry different connotations?
For me they do. Absentee brings thoughts of being absent, and can't get to the polls. Or, maybe it prompts thoughts of disability — like physically unable to get to the polls. That's all good by me.
But, the post-pandemic word choice, your choice, has become mail-in balloting. That also carries a connotation—convenience.
Convenience should be the least of the justifications, not the primary one. But that's all just a personal perspective, of course. ;-)
GAI have no problem with convenience, when part of the Right wing game plan is to make difficult for those who may have to work on the particular day and do not have the luxury of standing in lines for hours.
Conservatives know such is the case with poorer people, so let's call it what it is, a form of "voter suppression"That's baloney with some salami thrown in.
As of March 2024, forty-six states, the District of Columbia, Guam, Puerto Rico, and the Virgin Islands offer early in-person voting to all voters.
In Florida they allow it for something like two weeks prior to the election, including weekends.
Second, Thirty-one states and the District of Columbia allow anyone to vote absentee. You only need to request an absentee ballot. You do not need to provide a reason.
If you can't handle that... you shouldn't be allowed to vote.
Serious stuff like who is running the country should be left to people who care enough to ask for an absentee ballot or show up to vote.
What is Mail in Ballots?
Ballots sent to everyone... filled out by anyone... with no means of discerning who filled them out, signed for them, secured them.
A corrupt State official could literally have tens of thousands of votes sitting in a closet, ready to go, and just slide the box out to be counted that night... its happened before... it will happen again... Mail in Ballots corrupt election outcomes, which is why almost every western nation has made them illegal.Ok, Ken you made your point the fact that early voting is allowed, even though I have heard that the GOP was against that as well, makes your point of view a bit more palatable.
I am still not convinced that a program that has worked over several states for so long now is condemned, just because Trump says so.We had a National Election thrown into question.
How do we ensure we do not have a repeat of that?
We tighten up the laws, make common sense changes.
There is no need for a State to allow ballots to come in and be counted days, weeks, AFTER an election.
If you can't get your ballot filled out, sent, and collected prior to election day... too bad... so sad... putting the entire election process, its legitimacy, in question for voters that for whatever reason couldn't complete the requirements to vote in a timely manner is the epitome of stupidity.
Unless, of course, the real goal is to have plenty of opportunity to change the outcome of an election. Having some "late" ballots show up AFTER the election, 98% of which just happen to be for the candidate that was losing the election in an amount that just happens to carry him over the hump by a few thousand votes.
There is no legitimate excuse for any State not to have all their Mail in Ballots in prior to election day. Florida has 22 million people and it has its elections counted and completed... Pennsylvania has only 12 million people... why can't they get it done?2020 was an unusual circumstance, where many states, not just the ones Trump complained about, made adjustments in their electoral processes to accommodate COVID.
We were doing fine with the current election strategy long before Covid.
It is not realistic to think that all votes can be accurately tallied on the day of the election.
What happened in the 5 battleground states? Philly, Atlanta, Milwaukee, Detroit, Phoenix, large urban areas that Trump complained about with the voters that were least likely to support him. Was it a coincidence? I doubt it. There really wasn't any mystery about the outcome except that Trump wanted to exclude their votes for obvious reasons.
Tallying votes from large urban area tend to be more involved and take more time.This is exactly my issue, the changes made for the 2020 pandemic election are STILL on the books and will STILL be used in the 2024 election.
There is no reason for this.
The States should have reverted to original, non-pandemic rules, or modified for the coming election that ALL Mail-in-Ballots MUST be in before election day, or they are invalid.
Anything less will absolutely put the results of the 2024 election into question, regardless of the candidates, in any State allowing for and accepting late (post election) ballots.
Nineteen states, Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands and Washington, D.C., however, will accept and count a mailed ballot if it is received after Election Day but postmarked on or before (sometimes only before) Election Day.
https://www.ncsl.org/elections-and-camp … il-ballots
I'm Buddy, not Sparky.
And railing against convenience is right along those same lines of suppression. In small towns, which tend to go conservative, the lines to vote are not as long. I know, I'm in one of those towns and am in and out in under ten minutes. In large cities, long lines, and long waits, lead to discouraging voters, which tend to lean liberal. So that convenience angle still leans towards voter suppression.
And mail-in balloting is not my word choice, it's been around for a while now. States like Colorado, Oregon, Utah and Washington have had it for ten years. How many instances of major fraud have been detected in those states pertaining to mail fraud during that time?Yeah, you're a 'buddy.' I did think about that before leaving "Sparky" in, but it sounded so cool. Plus, as a buddy, I knew you could take it. ;-)
As for the rest, I didn't use fraud as a reason for my view. Voting is important enough to be worth a little inconvenience.
GAAnd yet, you already admitted that you would excuse that inconvenience for certain segments of the population. So, convenience seems like an unnecessary roadblock just to add suppression to certain other segments of the population.
You are still talking about fraud and suppression and I'm still talking about value and worth. We're repeating ourselves. Once or twice around is enough.
GAI have to wonder—how did we manage to vote for so many decades if we wanted to? Enduring long lines, lack of water, insufficient drop boxes, and limited voting hours—it begs the question, how did we ever cast our votes? Reflecting on our history of electing officials, it's baffling. This conversation leaves me pondering what absurd challenges we'll face next. (This is meant to be sarcastic and a little funny in my perspective.) Makes me wonder what next some will get fixated on.
For future elections:
Chairs must be provide for those in line, reclining in case a nap is needed.
Flappers will be provided, either robotic or human, giving an appropriately warmed or cooled breeze over the voter.
Servants must be available, one per voter, to provide for unanticipated "needs".
If the anticipated wait (worst case scenario) is over 15 minutes a 4 course meal shall be provided to each voter and each person accompanying them.
Payment shall be made to each person casting a vote: $100 or, if the majority of the ballot was for Democrat candidates, $200.Where do I sign up? LOL I vote Rian, Shine, hotter than hell, and colder than you know what, after or before work, on my lunch break. And have always felt pretty dam good after I voted. Gosh, I could get all those perks, I would have voted twice. (just kidding)
Quote of the day:
@jonathanhernandez430
2 hours ago
Independent voter here. Your last question is a good one for me because I never liked Donald Trump since the 90's. But I could never articulate why. But I actually read and research political rhetoric from both sides.
I still dislike Trump, never hated him. But through honest research of what Democrats say about Trump, they've truly convinced me that they're wrong, lying and gaslighting everything Trump does or says. Now, Trump has my vote. Trump could have never gotten my vote if it weren't for Democrats. That's wild!!
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