More than 130,000 businesses across the U.S. are bracing for the Biden administration’s rules on Covid vaccination and testing.
The requirements will apply to roughly two-thirds of the private sector workforce.
Nearly every Republican state attorney general in the U.S. signed a letter to the president last month vowing to challenge the requirements.
OSHA delivered its proposal to the Office of Management and Budget on Tuesday night for final review.
"President Joe Biden last month directed the Occupational Safety and Health Administration, a tiny agency that polices workplace safety for Labor, to write rules requiring private companies with 100 or more employees to vaccinate their staff against Covid-19 or test those who aren’t at least once a week."
"The rule is expected to take effect soon after OMB completes its review. Because it’s being written under emergency procedures, OSHA can shortcut some of the usual regulatory bureaucracy, like a public comment period that would normally delay it by several months. OSHA will likely give companies time to comply with the new mandate before broad enforcement begins, according to Debbie Berkowitz, who served as a chief of staff and senior policy advisor at OSHA during the Obama administration"
"The National Federation of Independent Business is flatly opposed to the rule, accusing the Biden administration of “commandeering” businesses to act as “instruments of coercion” against employees."
"The sweeping national mandate will almost certainly face more legal challenges. Nearly every GOP state attorney general in the U.S. signed a letter to the president last month vowing to use “every available legal option” to halt the mandate, calling it “counterproductive and harmful.”
"States, however, probably don’t have legal standing to challenge the rule, according to Georgetown University law professor David Vladeck.
“I don’t think it’s going to be easy for a state agency to say I represent the business community here,” Vladeck said. “The business community is perfectly able to represent itself.”
Source --- https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/15/busines … suits.html
Lot's to talk about --- Will these new COVID mandates cause more of a shortage of workers?
Will this all end up tangled in multiple lawsuits?
How could the new COVID mandates affect the problems at our shipping ports, and trucking industry, dock workers?
Will the COVID mandates lead to higher inflation than we currently are experiencing?
I would go with two other questions first: Does the Federal government have the constitutional authority to make such mandates? And, should the Federal government impose those mandates, even if they do have the authority?
I don't know about the first, but I would answer that they should not for the second.
I think the imposition of these mandates will do more harm than the assumed medical benefits.
If I project a Democrat mindset, (my perception of the stereotype), that it is the uneducated white Republican that is resisting vaccinations, (I am projecting this from my white-collar job office chair where my already vaccinated self is safe from any job insecurity due to the mandate), I would say yes to both questions. Or, I might be a politically involved Democrat, and I would be onboard with this, `its the unvaccinated's fault that we haven't beat Covid yet' mantra and also answer yes to both questions.
If, the Democrats follow this line of reasoning for supporting the mandate they are going to shoot themselves in the butt for 2022. Because . . . the folks that are hurt by the mandate won't be silent about it and they will remember it on election day.
Of course, that all depends on my perception of the Democrats' need for Moderate and Independent voters. They will always need us, and I think this move will lose them.
Bottom line; `It ain't right for the government to do this.'
"Does the Federal government have the constitutional authority to make such mandates? And, should the Federal government impose those mandates, even if they do have the authority?"
If we accept that OSHA, MSHA or other workplace safety organizations within the govt. have the authority to enforce workplace safety programs and rules then the answer to the first can be nothing but "yes".
But the second question...that's the stickler. Purely my opinion, but that would be a "no". My reasoning is that it won't work, and could destroy OSHA - an entity that, while overstepping its bounds occasionally, has done an enormous amount of good in our workplaces.
OSHA is important to our workforce and this in my view oversteps their boundaries. The mandates blanket our workforce, and this can only lead to furthering our problem with not only getting people to fill the 10 million current unfilled jobs but within a very expedited time we may see that number grow. This could certainly also increase inflation problems that are pretty bad already.
OSHA is most likely to share the backlash due to being used in this fashion. In my view, this is a huge unnecessary blanket that our Government is so well known for. The order lacks common sense.
I worked under OSHA rules for 22 years, then under those same mandates, enforced to a lesser degree, for another 20 years. I found them often exceeding reasonable boundaries and worse to very often refuse reasonable accommodations to reality.
But they have done a great deal of good, and when it comes to providing a safe workplace are unmatched by anything business has ever done.
One of the mandates of OSHA is that one person not endanger another, and this can take the form of not being drunk or high on the job. OSHA protects me from co-workers idiocy in other words.
Is it truly that different that the will now protect me from people refusing to take simple steps to slow/stop the spread of a deadly disease? I know I don't want to work next to someone with a deadly, highly communicable, disease; is that not in OSHA's purview? I'm talking people, from 2 to a half dozen (in my experience) often in contact with each other.
I can see your point. each year I was mandated to get a flu shot or lose my job. However, I just hoped to point out the problems that vaccine mandates could cause. So, yes it looks like a dammed if we dod dammed if we don't.
At this point, we have an economy that is shaky is it wise to push vaccine mandates now when things are so precarious? There are polls that show high numbers of citizens say they will leave their job if forced to take the vaccine. Now perhaps many won't if push comes to shove. But "what if"?
https://www.healthleadersmedia.com/huma … e-mandated
I think you realize I have been pro-vaccine. But my common sense tells me the OSHA mandates are not a good idea at this point. At some point, we need to look at what mandates could do to the economy. Can we afford to be so "lofty" in the here and now?
I agree with you; while it is smart for everyone to get jabbed, there has arisen such a disapproval of government forcing the issue that it should probably be dropped. Let those that don't want it pay for those that do want to get it, and let all of us pay the consequences of not fighting a deadly disease to the best of our (collective) ability.
And, of course, let Americans pay to vaccinate the world while we're at it. I already hear screams that it is immoral and wrong for those producing and paying for the vaccine to use it on themselves before giving it away.
Your point is well taken. It is very obvious if more would have taken the vaccine we would all be better off. Unfortunately, we are at a stalemate. I will be taking the buster very soon. I think all we can do is protect ourselves in the best way we can. I certainly don't want our economy to get worse. It would be easy to say the hell with the economy. But, the seriousness of a failing economy is nothing to say -- to hell with it.
I say to hell with the economy. My physical body always comes first. Without the freedom of my mind and body I'm a total slave.
You say --- " I refuse any Nazis approach to anything with fear-driven and without facts or evidence."
Please consider the truth is this Virus has had 241,619,976 infections due to COVID. And 4,916,934 deaths. These should be the most important facts you need to consider. This virus should cause fear... And we all need to consider the evidence in even just the numbers I offered.
We could stop this virus, but we need all to stop being fearful of getting a vaccine that has shown very good results with minor problems that have come from taking the vaccine. Eventually, the virus will spread to the unvaccinated. They laterally are the viruses target. That's is the science of viruses and vaccines. They will find hosts as long as we let it run unchecked. Maybe doing the right thing for us all would be a good thing.
I do respect your view --- But, are you to set in your ways, to consider pros and cons?
I always do my pros and cons well.
The vaxxers have tripled the covid deaths this year. In the dark winter the covid deaths will double again and 10 trillions printed money will be thrown at it again.
My faith comes from 6 other smarter countries who have lifted all covid restrictions. It will snow ball slowly.
Covid deaths are down this year, but "The vaxxers have tripled the covid deaths this year.".
Why do you make such obviously false comments? Are you hoping that gross exaggeration will gain you something?
They say artist have a screw loose, One needs to be a little creative crazy from going insane. Most people will agree the world has gone MADD lately. I'm able predict world events for the late 40 years at a 100%. I predicted a mandate of vaccines when most said no way. I predicted this year it would triple in covid death mostly in the most vaccinated countries. I will apologize to everyone if in this dark winter coming. They double again the covid deaths and spend 10 trillion of printed money on it. Mark my words. Most of the covid deaths in the world come from the western countries who are the most vaccinated countries in the world.
By the end of this December the covid death will triple worldwide.
2021 1.9 million, right now close to 5 million, no problem reaching 6 by the end of December.
Yet no no it's vaccines roll out is working, bs.
Which six countries do you refer to Castlepaloma?
what sort of answer is that Castlepaloma "Westernized countries"
There are over 40 'Westernised countries", and you said "6 .... smarter countries who have lifted all covid restrictions". So which six countries are you referring to; name them. Or are you trying to make 'false' claims (misinformation) which you can't back up with evidence?
https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/16/world/co … index.html
6 countries that are opening up and living with Covid
Singapore, Norway, Ireland, Sweden, Thailand
Sorry Castlepaloma but you didn’t read the article in you link did you?
You Said, to quote:-
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/09/16/worl … index.html
6 countries that are opening up and living with Covid, Denmark, Singapore, Norway, Ireland, Sweden, Thailand. “
Just above, in this forum, you also said, to quote “6 …. smarter countries who have lifted all covid restrictions.”
Now if you read your link (which only mentions 5 countries), you will note in the article in your link that:-
#1: The five countries it refers to are Chile, Singapore, Denmark, Thailand and South Africa, and not the six you are now claiming to have lifted all covid restrictions.
#2: You are also failing to mention that in each country you list that the vast majority of the adult population have now been fully vaccinated; and that is the reason why these countries are easing restrictions.
#3: You repeatedly fail to acknowledge that England lifted ‘all’ covid restrictions on the 19th July; long before any of the others countries you mentioned eased their restrictions.
And now let’s look at the current situation for the six countries you list:-
Denmark lifted all restriction on 10th September because 75% of their population are fully vaccinated, and current infection rates are low.
Norway lifted all restrictions on 25th September because 67% of the population are fully vaccinated, and current infection rates are low.
Sweden never had any hard Covid restrictions, and in spite of that did fair better than Spain, the UK, USA and Italy; but Sweden faired much worse than Denmark, Finland, Norway and Iceland.
Singapore relaxed its restrictions in August, after 18 months of largely successful mitigation efforts, and in early September eased restrictions even more once 80% of the population was fully vaccinated.
However, Singapore re-imposed covid restriction on 1st October because of a surge in new covid cases. So currently the covid restrictions in Singapore include that no more than 2 people can dine together at restaurants etc.
FYI, Thailand never abolished the covid restrictions, they just eased up on them on the 1st October.
Currently, Thailand’s relaxed covid restrictions from the 1st October include:-
• A shorter curfew in effect; now from just 10pm until 4am.
• The leisure industry now allowed to reopen e.g. gyms, cinemas and massage parlours etc. although customers must be fully vaccinated or have a negative COVID-19 test result taken within 72 hours.
• Trade exhibitions and conference centres remain suspended.
• Gatherings remain capped at 25 people.
• Restaurants located outdoors may accommodate dine-in customers at up to 75% capacity; air-conditioned indoor food establishments can take up to half capacity.
• Public transport must operate at 75% capacity
• Passengers must wear facemasks at all times.
Ireland will be lifting all restrictions as from Friday 22nd October, subject to the following conditions:-
• Covid passports will be required for all indoor hospitality and events.
• Social distancing will remain.
• Masks will remain mandatory
• Table service only in hospitality e.g. nightclubs, and only 10 adults per table
• Contact tracing data to be given on entry e.g. at pubs and restaurants
• At all live indoor events, all spectators are to remain seated.
One can not possible follow every law change and restrictions change to date all the time. Fact is that most vaccinated countries in the world are westernized countries. Wail people are totally blind to Biden statement of vaccines are 100 safe and covid death's are 99% unvaccined. That is the greatest bs ever since the Bible. From the world champion of liars , the
US Presidents. Sorry I can't live a lie.
True Castlepaloma, you “can’t possibly follow every law change and restrictions change”; but you should at least double check your facts from multiple ‘up-to-date’ and reliable sources before making bold claims; then perhaps you might make fewer ‘false claims’?
Yeah, the world’s wealthy nations have hogged the covid vaccines for their own citizens; that should be no surprise.
FYI, the fact remains, and well evidenced now, that:
* vaccines are safe, and covid kills.
Yeah, there is a slim risk (<1 million) of blood clots from viral-vector vaccines like the AstraZeneca/Oxford vaccine (the main covid vaccine in the UK) and the J&J vaccine in the USA; but there is a far, far greater risk of dying on a ventilator in hospital of covid if you are unvaccinated – especially if you are over the age of 55 – That is Fact that is well documented.
Yea, I'm just waiting for my clinic to get the booster shots - should be done in a week or two. My wife already got hers.
I find it rather sad that it's come down to purely politics (Don't force your jab on ME!) rather than common sense and an understanding of how vaccines work. And fear from all the lies, of course.
We truly need to pull together as a nation to get rid of the virus. In the end, it would benefit us all... Nothing good can come from letting this virus drag on.
GA, The federal government can't mandate vaccinations for the general public. However, vaccine mandates may be applied to specific groups under the federal government’s jurisdiction. This is the reason Biden has strengthened his mandates by going in a backdoor, OSHA. OSHA has the authority to make worker's safety rules.
Good question -- should the Federal government use such overreach, especially with the adverse reaction it could have on the economy that is very precarious at this time. Not to mention the bigger problem is a citizen's right to choose what goes into their body.
I think one must consider there are some scientists asking that COVID be down labeled to an epidemic. Feeling the virus no longer is a true pandemic. This could indicate the possibility we are coming to the end of this virulent virus. So one might ask, is the need for mandates pretty much, a day late?
I am pro-vaccine, but more so pro-vaccine choice. These mandates could really work to tank our economy further. In my view, anyone that does not want to take the vaccine will dig in and refuse to get jabbed anyway. So, I agree the imposition of these mandates will do more harm than the assumed medical benefits.
Being a nurse, I am not willing to blame the folks that have decided not to take the vaccine. My own cardiologist won't take the vaccine. His reasoning, he feels he has a good immune system, knows how to mitigate, and is in his early 50's. He has not gotten COVID as of yet. He did suggest I be vaccinated due to my age, and the fact I travel in and out of Mexico. I have no idea if the majority of the unvaccinated are Republicans. In my view, conservatives do tend to be very cautious, and really not individuals that could be called followers. Republicans as a rule are not willing to be "Mikey's You know the kid that will eat anything.
The Democrats in my view at this point can't even sit down on their sore butts. I mean we are talking buckshot...
The folks that are hurt by the mandate no matter righties or lefties, will be very mad when they find they can't even get Christmas trees, and are in gas lines paying over $5.00 a gallon. And I agree their fury will be noted in 2022.
I truly feel more American's recognize the new administration is like no other we have seen in a very long time. I trust Americans' innate need to live free and pursue life unfettered by government overreach. This administration has leaned too far left in my view.
I am intentionally skipping any of the vax/anti-vax stuff, so, relative to the mandates, I don't think the government should impose them for reasons already mentioned.
However, I think your closing thought could use a `second thought'. I think we "Americans" have seen too many administrations like this one.
Yes, we have seen some real doozies. However, in my view, I have never been so scared for the country as I am now. The problem pile is almost where one can't see over it. I feel we are in for some real serious problems with the current administration. My Intuition may be on overload.
Both presidents have declared covid as a war. Covid osting 50% more the the second world war. Like the Muslim terrorist attack on US for decades which showed the US cops are 40 times greater chance of killing an American than a Muslim, then still attacks the middle east for decades for greater wealth. Same story with covid, just to a much higher level of destruction and record gains for the wealthy. They will used Marstail law, that gose back to the assassination of Lincoln keeping marshal law active every year. The war now, Is their on their own homeland. Where here saving on obesity medical cost and social security is more profitable to be stolen from. Rather than the fiery dragon trying to defeat the local snake in the grass. Easy unsuspected picking at home.
Both presidents have declared covid as a war. Covid costing 50% more the the second world war. Like the Muslim terrorist attack on US for decades which shows the US cops are 40 times greater chance of killing an American than a Muslim, then still attacks the middle east for decades for greater wealth. Same story with covid, just to a much higher level of destruction killing millions of poor people wail record gains for the wealthy. They will used Marsail law, that gose back to the assassination of Lincoln keeping marshal law active every year. The war now, Is their on their own homeland. Where here saving on obesity medical cost and social security is more profitable to be stolen from. Rather than the fiery dragon trying to defeat the local snake in the grass. Easy unsuspected picking at home.
Killing off most of the 78% obese covid deaths, I'm for the medical saving, they may deserve eating the wealthy toxic junk.
What not cool, killing off 75% of the 80+ of total covid deaths. As they are coming for our social security.
Deep throat, follow the money.
Sticking to the questions first:
Will these new COVID mandates cause more of a shortage of workers?
Most definitely yes! On my local news here in San Diego it is a top story with a large percentage of police refusing to vaccinate. And, it is not just nationally it is global. I read several European newsletters daily and it is in the top stories today especially with the UK and Italy with protests to mandates. Europe could be said is ahead of us with the Green Pass Certificate, which will be used with workers.
For additional info worth a skim is a Gallup Poll from August 2021 on the issue of worker sentiment, which is pretty much in my view divided.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/353825/wor … favor.aspx
Will this all end up tangled in multiple lawsuits?
It already is ranging from the school issue to Federal workers to private enterprise to as you said State leaders against it.
How could the new COVID mandates affect the problems at our shipping ports, and trucking industry, dock workers?
Yes, it will affect both. And, as hinted earlier it is global. For instance in Italy this week doc workers protested regulation/mandate walking off the job for a day.
Will the COVID mandates lead to higher inflation than we currently are experiencing?
I am no Economics wizard. Most of the articles I have seen indicate Stagflation will occur. Something new for me to learn.
You have really responded as I had hoped someone would. Straight forward, and shot an arrow and hit the bull's eye... This problem has been brewing, and it would seem we are very behind other countries in handling it.
It is my opinion that currently, we can not take a chance pushing these mandates. However, the mandates are now being implemented, and we are seeing people make the decision to leave their jobs in preference to being forced to be vaccinated. It well appears all will get worse in regards to the economy.
Here in Michigan we now have a nursing shortage, many have taken leaves or just resigned. The Hospital I retired from has asked retirees to consider coming back while they are in crisis and has brought in Filipino nurses to fill shortages.
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/ … 807660001/
I don't think many are aware of what is truly accruing due to these forced vaccine mandates. Much of what is going on is not being covered by the media. And this White House just acts as if all is fine, "nothing to see here" kind of attitude.
I think we are in for some very serious problems. It would seem common sense should dictate that --- at this time of worker crisis nothing I mean nothing should be done to cause more to leave their jobs. We have an abundance of unfilled jobs already. This White House creates problems and this administration has proven they have no aptitude to solve problems. They are just piling up.
We just don't need or can we afford these mandates.
Something to keep an eye on --- Will the vaccine mandates affect the policing of our communities? With many of the larger cities in the US experiencing severe police shortages, will vaccine mandates have more walking out? Will mandates result in more crime, and us feeling less safe? It would seem vaccine mandates that OSHA's working with the government have now blanketed most workplaces. This could truly lead to many societal problems. Too many to mention...
Seattle -- "The extent of the vaccine mandate on police staffing shortages won’t be known until after Monday’s deadline. Oct. 18 is the date Seattle, King County, and Washington State employees are required to submit proof of full vaccination, request an exemption, or face termination. "
https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus- … c696e5cfa7
It will affect city/state/federal levels, period. Close to me is San Diego city, which I keep up with. In my city, Escondido, I don't know what the skinny is. For San Diego this Article shares the numbers for city employees for fully vaccinated, partially, and no response, which I presume more likely won't.
On local TV they mention the police situation all the time. Who knows for the county sheriff's office or Calif Highways Patrol. The point being I think it will affect the general welfare of the community. San Diego Police have a shortage to begin with.
There is not a specific law that allows the federal government to issue vaccine mandates to the general population, but the federal government does have the authority to impose vaccine mandates (along w/other health-related mandates) based on 3 SCOTUS cases over the past 100+ years:
1. Jacobson v. Massachusetts (1905)
2. Zucht vs King (1922)
3. Prince v. Massachusetts (1944) - Big religious liberty implications in this one. A person's religion does not supersede public health concerns. Highly recommend a read of the decision.
Plus, the interpretation of the OHSA Act from the 70s.
Well so far looks like OSHA will stand behind the Federal government's wishes to add vaccine mandates in the workplace. We may see the medical field become badly understaffed due to mandates. here in Michigan, it is already evident. We are bringing in nurses from the Philippians. Many nurses have worked their butts off now for almost two years, and have avoided COVID. Now to face a vaccine mandate... They are just leaving to avoid being forced to take the vaccine. Many also got COVID and feel they carry immunity and are being forced for no real reason to get the vaccine. I bring this up only to further make my point and bring causation into the problem of our ever-shrinking workforce. --- I feel it is a very poor decision at this point, with all the workforce problems to force mandates. Poor problem-solving...
My area is one of lowest covid deaths in the world. The restrictions has cause my industry to collapse. I can't get a side job because everyone has to be vaccinated. I stop dating women, for they require vaccinated guys and everywhere place is closed for eating, drinking and entertainment. No more swimming pool workouts will gain 19 pounds, still better than covid 19 vaccines.
No more fast food service, all government employees also require vaccinated.
Actually not a bad thing. Let the government die from the superspreader vaccines and their horrible jobs. Death by 78% covid obesity. Perfect dictatorship revenge. Reminds me when health organization called tobacco healthy, that was native revenge.
by Readmikenow 11 months ago
At least two hospitals are coming clean. They are admitting something I've been aware of since the beginning of the pandemic. People are being admitted to the hospital to treat a certain condition. If they test positive for Covid, the reason for their admission is listed as...
by Sharlee 12 months ago
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by Readmikenow 15 months ago
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by Castlepaloma 15 months ago
https://youtu.be/tHpZ2vqJbMAThings US hears verry little about.
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