China — After the Ukraine War
Here's the headline:
China Sees at Least One Winner Emerging From Ukraine War: China
`The country’s leaders think it can shield itself from economic and diplomatic fallout and eventually be seen as a pillar of stability.'
A NYT article describes an evaluation that China will remain friends with Russia, but not best friends. Maybe not "friends" enough to help with any kind of military assistance.
It also makes a point that China will try not to do anything, (in support of Russia), that would be really damaging to its East/West relations.
The article seems logically reasoned to me. It makes sense.
GAFrom my personal experience with joint Russian Chinese industrial projects i don´t think that China treated Russia as a partner or friend on equal terms.
I always sensed the uneasiness on the Russian side of being only junior partner.
So with this in mind, whatever Russia gets out of China in support, Russia will have to pay dearly for this.
China always treated Russia equal or superior militarily. But this may change with obvious poor performance of the Russian forces in Ukraine.
The other military partner of Russia in Asia, India is already questioning if it was wise to purchase all the equipment that doesn´t hold expectations in combat.
So - China will not go to bed with Russia. Not worth it and it is not the Chinese way of achieving objectives. In this sense i can follow the headline.I agree it is not 'the Chinese way'.
I also think China considers Russia more of a trade partner, along the lines of Iran, Russia provides oil, gas, food and China provides manufactured goods in return.
China's position is to wait and watch as the West spends money and effort confronting Russia, China maneuvers itself into a more dominant position elsewhere.Agreed, Putin is now seen as a pariah around the world due to the messy invasion of Ukraine. The good news is that China may hesitate to invade Taiwan to avoid the crippling sanctions Russia is experiencing. After all, China wants to remain the world's factory. However, it seems that China has now reached out to Saudi Arabia. That may be the partnership China chooses to foster.
China's position on Tiawan stated very well, 40 seconds into this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwiD32UzSUM
In short, Tiawan is part of China, Tiawan is not an independent country, and eventually Tiawan will be brought back into the fold of China.
My intuition tells me that the China model for world hegemony is inconsistent with the image of an invader. I believe that China will not criticize Putin so as to not have any direct affiliation with the US, yet will be careful to keep him at arms length, as openly supporting aggressive invasions is bad for business.
I think there is a misconception many Americans have about China.
It is not a new world power, it is the most ancient of world powers, which is ascending once more to a position of global dominance.
China has an unofficial plan to become the most powerful nation in the world by 2050 it has been executing this plan without deviation for decades.
2050 will mark the hundredth anniversary for the community party taking over the People’s Republic of China.
China projects itself to the world as having values of Confucian pacifism, it puts values on things very differently than Western cultures, one of the biggest faults we Americans have is understanding that what we value and how we measure success or failure is not the same forms of measurement used by China.
The West is a loosely unified collection of nations and corporations, that were perceived to be weak by those outsiders, like China, looking to usurp America (The West) for dominance globally.
Russia's invasion of Ukraine is currently being used as the measuring stick to see just how unified and/or powerful the West can be. China is closely watching this ongoing drama, studying it, planning new strategy based on it.
International corporations removed their businesses from Russia, Western nations froze Russian funds and SWIFT has been partly cut off to Russia (Banks). Military supplies have been provided to Ukraine and 'volunteer' fighters from across the West have come to Ukraine's defense by the thousands.
Russia is being crippled economically and their military efforts have been stalled, if not stopped. It is more likely that the economic impact this has had on Russia weighs more heavily in China's evaluation as to the West's power than anything being done (or not done) through military efforts.
The invasion of Ukraine may have woken a slumbering West that was willing to drift off while allowing China's ascension to dominance until it was too late to do anything about it, now, I think there is a lot of reevaluating taking place... free trade and globalization may not be so popular in the years ahead, which will hurt China more than any other.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnmauldi … f01025ab5dHubPages struck again, after taking the time to develop a post on the most recent developments on the Ukraine war... POOF... Hubpages forced me to sign back in and made it disappear.
An hours worth of work down the drain... so to heck with it... I figured I'd find another thread related to it and post some of it here.
On October 11 and 12, Ukraine came under its most extensive attack from Russian missiles since the early weeks of the seven-month invasion. More than a dozen cities were targeted, knocking out power and water supplies.
On October 13 these attacks continued, hitting infrastructure and defenses.
Putin said the strikes were retaliation for an attack on Saturday October 8 that damaged a vital road and railway bridge connecting Crimea with the Russian mainland.
I believe they were also in repsonse to the sabotage of the Nord Stream.
On 30 September Russia unilaterally declared its annexation of four Ukrainian oblasts – Luhansk, Donetsk, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson.
Because of the attack on the Crimean Bridge, the counter offensive of Ukraine in the Northernmost occupied regions, and the sabotage of the Nord Stream, I believe Russia has switched gears in how this war will be fought.
No longer is it run by four different commanders, with four different spheres of interest, in a haphazard way, as if they almost expected in some regions to be treated as liberators.
I believe now Russia considers itself in a war with America, and that the Motherland itself is the target, changing the seriousness and certainty in which they are going to approach this campaign from now on.
I expect the full might of Russia to be engaged, gone are the disjointed efforts of four different fronts, now it will be one effort, with one command and the full force of everything Russia can bring to bear in the following months against Ukraine.
To understand a bit better why there is support for Russia by a good percentage of the population in the Eastern parts of Ukraine, making this possible, I suggest this read:
https://www.e-ir.info/2015/03/13/unders … e-ukraine/
Oh, and I almost forgot the biggest reason perhaps for Russia's coming full effort to end Ukraine ASAP, Zelensky is demanding of NATO/America that they do a pre-emptive nuclear strike on Russia.
Yeah, and with Biden, you know that is all too possible.So sorry to hear your work was canceled - out...
"On October 11 and 12, Ukraine came under its most extensive attack from Russian missiles since the early weeks of the seven-month invasion. More than a dozen cities were targeted, knocking out power and water supplies."
Hey, I figured Putin would strike heavy after Big Mouth Biden's "armageddon " confused blurb. I agree Putin will go full out now, gloves off.
Biden's mouth is his worst enemy. Now I await to see what OPEC has in store for us.Not sure that had anything to do with President Biden's comment about Armageddon but more so to do with Ukraine knocking out part of Putin's beloved bridge to Crimea.
Ukraine didn't do that. Without American weapons, money, expertise, and Intel Ukraine wouldn't be able to mount a defense, let alone an offensive strike such as that.
Ukraine has almost no ability to do anything of military meaning. It is America and some allied troops fighting this war.Well, I do... And I now am waiting for OPEC to turn the knife in Joe's side due to his inappropriate threats. Never bite the than that feeds you.
The same sentiment of don't bite the hand that feeds you goes both ways. The Saudis have relied solely on America for their defense and weapons. Good luck to them if President Biden decides to pause those sales.
And' Vladimir Putin says missile strikes across Ukraine are in retaliation for Crimea bridge 'terrorist' blast
The Russian president says Monday's missile strikes were in retaliation for an attack on the Kerch Bridge that links Russia to the annexed Crimean peninsula which was a "terrorist act".
https://news.sky.com/story/amp/putin-sa … google.comNo it doesn't work both ways.
The Chinese would only too happily fill that void.
They have leady met with Saudi Arabia in the past discussing just that.
China has a huge appetite for oil.
China's ability to make cutting edge weapons is on par with America.Plus Trump sold them tons of weapons. In my view, the Saudis knew perfectly well what to expect before jamming Biden. I would think if Biden threatens this ploy they will strike back with further cuts in oil production.
I guess he could beg to buy oil at an outrageous price... or provide he weapons they ordered under Trump at a very low cost. One way or another he will be on his brittle knees.China's ability to make cutting edge weapons is nowhere near on par with America. And it's not very feasible to think that Saudi Arabia will replace all of their American weapons with non-compatible, lower quality Chinese weaponry. That would also take quite some time in transition. China is showing no interest in getting involved also. I've read that many believe it would take the Saudis decades to transition away from American weapons.
You don't know what you don't know.
https://news.usni.org/2015/10/27/chinas … ed-weapons
https://www.businessinsider.com/us-accu … ogy-2019-5
https://militarywatchmagazine.com/artic … could-lose
https://www.sandboxx.us/blog/stolen-ste … ssian-dna/
That should help you be more knowledgeable on the matter, I kept the links in chronological order.Yes, and then there was this from them in July, after Biden's visit where he begged for oil.
Saudi Arabia FM does not rule out arms purchase from China
July 18, 2022
"The Saudi Arabian Foreign Minister said yesterday that if his country fails to acquire US military equipment, it will pursue it somewhere else.
Prince Faisal bin Farhan Al Saud added in an interview with CNN's, Nic Robertson, which took place only hours after US President Joe Biden left Saudi Arabia, that his country sees the United States as a key partner in the Kingdom's defensive purchases.
He said that if his country fails to get US arms, it will look for alternative suppliers. When asked by CNN's Nic Robertson if Saudi Arabia will not buy missile defence systems from China, bin Farhan said, "We will buy missile defence systems, or any defensive weapons, from where we can find the best solutions for our needs."
"We are always looking for what is best for us … what fits our technological needs, but we are not going to make ourselves exclusive to one supplier or the other because this doesn't make commercial sense."
READ: US, Saudi agree on stopping Iran getting nuclear weapons in joint statement
The American President's visit to Saudi Arabia, where he attended the Jeddah Security and Development Summit, is the first of its kind since Biden took office in 2021. The leaders and representatives of other Arab Gulf States, as well as of Egypt, Jordan, and Iraq also attended the Summit.
The long-standing Saudi-Iranian conflict has been a key motive behind Riyadh's endeavor to pursue ballistic missiles from suppliers other than the United States, especially after the United States has reduced its arms sales to the Kingdom.
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20220 … rom-china/
JUL 16 2022 "We build bridges with people; we don’t see one as exclusive of the other,” Saudi Minister of State for Foreign Affairs Adel al-Jubeir told CNBC."
"We want to be able to deal with everybody and we want to be able to engage with everybody. This is what we have done,” said al-Jubeir, who was recently appointed as envoy for climate affairs.
“China is our largest trading partner. It’s a huge market for energy and a huge market in the future. And China is a big investor in Saudi Arabia — the United States is of course, our number one partner when it comes to security and political coordination, as well as investments and trade between the two countries.”
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/07/16/saudi-a … ubeir.html
It would appear the Saudis were looking ahead. That's what intelligent leaders do.
LOL Ken and Sharlee, team America all the way! You both project quite a distaste for America. It doesn't matter to me which party is in the white house, I'm always going to support America. The two of you almost seem to root for our adversaries.
The oil for defense alliance goes back 80 years or more so I bet everything on it that these ties will not be broken. You both seem to want to believe that the sky is falling at every turn but I don't buy in.
I could provide quadruple the number of sources that site of the U.S. as having the most advanced weapons systems in the world but I won't. You're both Set On believing what you believe regardless of what's presented.This is no laughing matter.
It is not the duty of the citizens of America to sit by and cheer on its government as it does evil to the world.
It is our duty to become educated on these matters and hold the government accountable when it acts against our interests, when it is led by corrupt and evil people, that put their power and prosperity ahead of the health and wellbeing of the Nation and its citizens.
As George Washington said in his Farewell Address, it is our duty to hold accountable the "cunning, ambitious, and unprincipled men [that] subvert the power of the people to usurp for themselves the reins of government, destroying afterwards the very engines which have lifted them to unjust dominion."
We see this clearly going on today, there has never been a more direct and continuous attack on the American people's freedoms and liberties nor has there ever been an Administration that has so clearly put our interests, as well as the interests of all humanity, in jeopardy as Biden's does today.
We see being strongly developed today, the hostility with which one political party opposes another, villainizing them, labeling them criminals and traitors, calling them enemies of the nation.
The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism.
But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism. The
disorders and miseries which result gradually incline the minds of men to seek security and repose in the absolute power of an individual; and sooner or later the chief of some prevailing faction, more able or more fortunate than his competitors, turns this disposition to the purposes of his own elevation on the ruins of public liberty.
[A party controlled by the corrupt] serves always to distract the public councils and enfeeble the public administration. It agitates the community with ill founded jealousies and false alarms, kindles the animosity of one part against another, foments occasionally riot and insurrection. It opens the door to foreign influence and corruption, which find a facilitated access to the government itself through the channels of party passions."
Do we not see all these issues in full bloom today?
Do we not see our government engaging in foreign conflicts, attacking sovereign nations, that have not attacked our nation today?
Does our government not threaten other nations, openly and without cause, for doing nothing more than looking out for their own best interests today?
Never has our government been more openly hostile to so many foreign nations without cause than the Biden Administration is today.
We do not belong involving ourselves in the Ukraine war.
"a passionate attachment of one nation for another produces a variety of evils.
Sympathy for the favorite nation, facilitating the illusion of an imaginary common interest in cases where no real common interest exists and infusing into one the enmities of the other, betrays the former into a participation in the quarrels and wars of the latter, without adequate inducement or justification.
And it gives to ambitious, corrupted, or deluded citizens (who devote themselves to the favorite nation) facility to betray or sacrifice the interests of their own country."
Never has a President passed more Executive Orders that will restrict and remove freedoms and liberties from Americans than Biden, and he has only begun, he has more than two years to go.
I believe after the November elections we will see the true nature of what the Biden Administration is going to unleash upon the world begin to unfold, the necessity of maintaining its mask now over.China doesn't even view itself as positively in terms of its military as you do...
"People’s Liberation Army (PLA) Major General Zhang Shaozhong ranked Chinese military power in 2020 in the fifth place behind the United States, Russia, Britain, and France, while PLAN surface power was ranked in the eighth place behind Japan and India. The Peoples Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) was ranked seventh in the world, due to its lack of fourth-generation fighter planes and high-end drones. In General Shaozhong’s view, China will become the second-largest military power in the world only in 2049, when it celebrates its centennial anniversary."
Chinese scholars like Xu Ruike and Sun Degang admit that China is an economic heavyweight but is a military featherweight and will remain so for the coming decades."
Also, It is expensive to be a superpower. China’s defense budget cannot compete with the combined power of United States, India, Japan, and Australia. The United States alone spends more on national defense than China, India, Russia, Saudi Arabia, France, Germany, the United Kingdom, Japan, South Korea, and Brazil combined.
America has overwhelming military superiority and actual fighting experience along with global partners. The US military has been led by outstanding military generals like George Marshall, Dwight Eisenhower, George Patton, and David Petraeus, while China always lacked great generals. We've documented lessons learned over time and turn them into well honed tactics, procedures and doctrines. The world sends its military officers to US military institutions and not China’s military colleges. They can't touch our experience and expertise.
The overwhelming display of US military power since 1945 is a credible deterrent for China.
Lastly, A war will lead to a loss of China’s exports to the United States worth at least 310 billion. A war would result in a decline in industrial production, unemployment, and inflation, causing an economic crash.
https://www.airuniversity.af.edu/JIPA/D … y-primacy/
I support America 100%, although I don't have any form of blinkers nor do I fool myself about the mess it is in at this point. You make vague statements about China being less capable of making weaponry that would come up to the US standard, and I pointed out some facts. Nowhere in those facts did I say China and the U.S. did not have advanced weapons systems. You read this into my comment. I pointed out some very clear facts about China's weaponry. Nothing more.
" You both seem to want to believe that the sky is falling at every turn but I don't buy in."
Not sure you note I did not ask you to "buy in". I very rarely respond to your comments, due to having little to nothing in common with you.
I think you preach from the Bible of Google much of the time and get incensed when one does not agree with you. That would be your problem.
In regard to - "You're both Set On believing what you believe regardless of what's presented.
You present ideologies that are different than my own. It should be clear to you I have no use for leftist ideologies.
I see it as getting very personal to accuse me of having dictates for America, just due to not agreeing with you about the state of America, and my displeasure in regard to Biden, and his administration.
In my view, your comment sought to bait with a vague personal insult, I don't take bait.No personal insults intended whatsoever. Far too many here read into words on a screen. As a matter of fact this statement you made "You're both Set On believing what you believe regardless of what's presented." Has been directed toward me by Ken many times!
Sorry if I think Google is a great source of information to inform myself about things that I may not know too much about initially. I see no harm. You and Ken both quote from Google. So does everyone here .
I'm also just a little dismayed at the fact that when I provide references for some thoughts and opinions I get accused of worshiping the Bible of Google. And if I forgo the references I'm accused of making baseless commentary.I will take your explanation in regard to what I found insulting, a bit more than perhaps you have the right to presume. --- "LOL Ken and Sharlee, team America all the way! You both project quite a distaste for America. It doesn't matter to me which party is in the white house, I'm always going to support America. The two of you almost seem to root for our adversaries."
I think we might see half here agree with me, and half see your point.
What you present in my view, is far left biased information as a rule.
" As a matter of fact this statement you made "You're both Set On believing what you believe regardless of what's presented."
That statement was from your comment, not mine. I was quoting you.
I am not sure what has transpired between Ken and you. Take that up with him. I have not before now made comment about your sources. I have tried to be open-minded, in some respect, but careful not to insult your sources.
I most certainly quote info from Google, I don't preach it up as being factual unless there are facts presented, I don't back up any opinion pieces. I also at times back up opinion pieces with several opinions from different outlets. I see no harm in using Google to form an opinion or offer facts."I don't preach it up as being factual unless there are facts presented,"
Generally I've only presented facts to counter the positions yourself and Ken have advanced. Both of you often present a position but it is only a piece of the whole story. I generally look for the rest of the story. Confounding factors and so on. Just like the information, which is factual information from a well regarded source, about China's inadequate military was completely disregarded by Mr Ken because he wants to believe that most are superior to America and that really just doesn't seem to be the case.
I agree with your sentiment.
The above posts are evidence enough.
Myself - China can make weapons equal to our own.
Faye - That is laughable.
Myself - I post some links showing they indeed can and do.
Faye - LOL You are anti American
Myself - A long dissertation, quoting George Washington on what a citizen's duties are, and what to watch out for in our leaders.
Faye - China won't start a war against us, their economy would crash.
Its enough to make a person dizzy. How did we get from China can make weapons that Saudi Arabia would want, to why China wouldn't war against us?
As for China, they ARE at war with the US, it is their 100 year plan, it is their Agenda 2049. It is the Silk Road Initiative, it is their efforts to get off the US Dollar as the world reserve and switch to a China led Gold backed reserve.
2049:
https://www.southasiamonitor.org/china- … enge-world
https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnmauldi … c24f65ab5d
Russia and China: Partners in Dedollarization:
https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/e … arization/
https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/dollar-worlds-currency
Chinese National Security Espionage
https://carnegieendowment.org/2022/04/2 … -pub-86902
https://www.realcleardefense.com/articl … 80027.htmlYes, not sure who the conversation has now turned to, "China wouldn't war against us". Most likely they have Biden in their back pocket, due to the Bidens getting rich quick scam, pay for play.
China has made it no secret they hope to become the richest and most powerful Nation on earth, and we should all know how they strive to do just that.
It is very clear after Biden's visit to Suadi Arabia, the Saudis made it no secret they had a backup plan for Joe's threats of cutting weapons
sales. Biden makes a fool of himself at every turn, and then just moves on as if nothing happened while the messes he creates are piling up.
This confused man is making mincemeat of our allies. Most will be very glad to see him out. Germany, France, and Canada were not happy with his crazy Armmfedon comment.Ok Ken and Sharlee. The sky is falling any day now. Nuclear fallout Will rain down. President Biden is evil to his core and demented on top of it. This administration is wrong and absolutely every decision they make is catastrophic. They are responsible for every single problem in the world currently. President buying has actually crashed the global economy.
All of your sources that validate your opinions are the most credible, authentic and complete. There are no other views. No other possible explanations or facts to anything you have presented. All other sources in their entirety are completely wrong. The big lie is good for the country. 10 year olds having babies is a wonderful blessing from God and trans/gays should be stripped of any sort of Rights. Book banning should be accelerated, teachers fired and replaced with lay people. January 6th was really a tourist outing. Immigrants are rapists and criminals. Russia, China and multiple other nations can obliterate our country at a moment's notice so it's in our best interest to roll over and give them what they want, let them do what they want.Faye, maybe you need to read the comments more closely. Ken and I have not become angry when we share our views. Yes, our views are very different from yours. We conduct ourselves as perhaps not open to your views, but we don't come at you demanding you respect and confirm our views.
Faye has it not become clear to you that our ideologies clash?
Please realize I have a right to my views.
This recent comment in my view is unfounded and hyperbolic. Just gives way to what to me looks like a tantrum, due to possibly not respecting others' views.Why do you always feel that people are personally attacking your views though when they're just presenting a different part of the story????? You may be taking things just a little too personaly. That intention is not there.
No, not a tantrum. I'm not invested that much. This forum is getting tiresome.You should realize there are some here that have your views. I would think you would be more drawn to converse with them. If this comment does not appear to be a rant, I did not indicate or say I took it personally. I called it a rant... No more no less. I was polite and tried to share my view. . I did not take your comment personally, I took it as I said a rant. I would have not even noted the comment, you addressed it to ken and me.
"Ok Ken and Sharlee. The sky is falling any day now. Nuclear fallout Will rain down. President Biden is evil to his core and demented on top of it. This administration is wrong and absolutely every decision they make is catastrophic. They are responsible for every single problem in the world currently. President buying has actually crashed the global economy.
All of your sources that validate your opinions are the most credible, authentic and complete. There are no other views. No other possible explanations or facts to anything you have presented. All other sources in their entirety are completely wrong. The big lie is good for the country. 10 year olds having babies is a wonderful blessing from God and trans/gays should be stripped of any sort of Rights. Book banning should be accelerated, teachers fired and replaced with lay people. January 6th was really a tourist outing. Immigrants are rapists and criminals. Russia, China and multiple other nations can obliterate our country at a moment's notice so it's in our best interest to roll over and give them what they want, let them do what they want."
If I may redirect back to China, do you remember prior to the pandemic?
Thousands in Hong Kong protest China’s national security bill
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vRh1vBMWCo
No one talks about China's takeover now.
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