War Crimes Have Been Committed In Ukraine, U.N. Experts Say

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  1. Sharlee01 profile image84
    Sharlee01posted 2 years ago

    Russian troops are committing atrocities in Ukraine, such as unprovoked executions, raping, and torturing, of adults as well as children.in “large numbers, according to the United Nations I legal experts.

    The investigation that was set up by the U.N. to probe the conduct of the war, the Independent International Commission of Inquiry reported its chilling findings Friday in Geneva, describing a long list of abuses and atrocities in four regions.

    “Based on the evidence gathered by the commission, it has concluded that war crimes have been committed in Ukraine,” Erik Mose, the chairman of the three-member commission, told the U.N. Human Rights Council".

    Mose, a Norwegian judge, said the commission has documented cases in which children have been "raped, tortured and unlawfully confined."

    “There are examples of cases where relatives were forced to witness the crimes," he added. "In the cases, we have investigated, the age of victims of sexual and gendered-based violence ranged from 4 to 82 years."

    Children also have been killed and wounded in “indiscriminate attacks” by Russian forces using explosive weapons, he said.

    Mose said that he and his colleagues “were struck by a large number of executions in the areas that we visited.”

    For Ukrainians who were unlawfully detained, witnesses “provided us with consistent accounts of ill-treatment and torture,” he said.

    The update from the commission follows other allegations of war crimes from international human rights groups, Western governments and Ukrainian authorities, including the recent discovery of a mass burial site in the eastern town of Izyum.

    The commission also had found two cases of “ill-treatment against Russian Federation soldiers by Ukrainian forces,” he said. “While few in numbers, such cases continue to be the subject of our attention."

    The commission focused on the regions of Kyiv, Chernihiv, Kharkiv and Sumy, visiting 27 towns and settlements and interviewing 150 victims and witnesses.

    As it continues its investigation, it will examine the forced transfer of people and the alleged expedited adoption of children, Mose said.

    The United States has accused Russia of interrogating, detaining and forcibly deporting hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians to Russia. An unknown number of children are believed to have been adopted by Russian families. The alleged deportations represent a war crime, violating the Geneva Conventions, U.S. officials say.

    Russia has denied committing war crimes and defended its conduct of the war since it launched the invasion Feb. 24. Russian officials say Ukrainians who relocated to Russia traveled there voluntarily. "

    Visit this link to witness a graphic video depicting the true crimes of war being committed on Ukrainian citizens.
    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/russ … -rcna49168


    Thoughts....

  2. Ken Burgess profile image71
    Ken Burgessposted 2 years ago

    Yeah, it was very avoidable.

    This is war, its always the same, these atrocities happened (and still happen) in Iraq, Syria, Libya, wherever war is, these crimes occur.

    These crimes go on in many parts of the world where there is no war as well.

    But the UN isn't interested in stirring up the masses to label them evil right now.  The propaganda machines are geared up to bring down Russia.

    This was in the works for over 20 years.

    The people who brought us to this point don't give a rat's ass about what "war crimes" are being committed, or by whom, but they damned sure want to make sure you know about them. 

    They want to make sure you support this war, because when gas goes back over $5.00 a gallon and a loaf of bread costs you $10 they need you to believe your impoverishment is worth it.

    Otherwise you might be upset with the folks who are making it all happen.

    1. Sharlee01 profile image84
      Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this

      Ken,
      Yes, we see these atrocities only when they can be used as political tools. It is very clear this has gone on for many decades.  One only needs to look to Africa. I certainly feel many atrocities are going on in Afghanistan at this point. And we certainly hear little about what happened after we pulled out.

      I don't even discuss the UN. I feel they are a useless body that does very little. Trump was right on the money with his assessment of the UN.

      It shocks me that some can support a proxy war. A war that is being played like a chess game but with people's lives, while we remain unscathed.   

      In the end, it is clear Biden and NATO feel they will destroy Putin. But will they or will such a proxy war bite us all in the ass? 

      I have always believed we get what we deserve. We the people have put up with this until now. Trump has done well by creating a huge segment of Americans that are saying --- no more, we are done...

      And if we don't get our way in Nov, it will send a message will it not?

      1. Fayetteville Faye profile image60
        Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this

        "It shocks me that some can support a proxy war. A war that is being played like a chess game but with people's lives, while we remain unscathed."   

        How do you think things would be different if we had decided as a nation from the very beginning that we would not support Ukraine in any manner whatsoever?  I know it's speculation but it's hard to believe that Russia would have rolled in and the people of Ukraine would have just rolled over.  Would the devastation and atrocities have been any less? It was clear from the very beginning that the people of Ukraine did not want to be absorbed by Russia.  I don't think it's supporting a "proxy war", I think it's supporting the people of Ukraine.

      2. Miebakagh57 profile image73
        Miebakagh57posted 24 months agoin reply to this

        Okay, let Americans make it happen in November.                                      Trump was on course making good things happen. But they say he was lieing. Bad.

    2. Fayetteville Faye profile image60
      Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      I have a hard time understanding how this was avoidable?  Putin announced his intentions of a special operation to free Ukrainians from Nazis.   A ridiculous ruse.  At that point, are you saying that the world should have let Putin fulfill his ambition of taking over the entirety of Ukraine based on some tenuous claim that the land belonged to what is now Russia thousands of years ago?  That sure would have a lot of implications within our own country wouldn't it?

      1. Ken Burgess profile image71
        Ken Burgessposted 2 years agoin reply to this

        You have chosen to remain ignorant, that is why you do not understand.

        You accept what propaganda you see and read on this matter as absolute fact, this also is a reason for your distorted perceptions on what has lead to this war.

        I have provided, over many months, on many different threads, plenty of information that explains how this war was begun, years ago, by American (Western influencers/billionaires/corporations/IMF) interference in Ukraine... I will provide some of it again for your here:

        Why instead of negotiating a peace when Russia and Ukraine were sitting at the table willing to do so, was America (Biden) pushing so hard for them not to agree to cease fire?

        https://www.arabnews.com/node/2127656/world

        By supporting Zelensky and his no compromise position (which Biden does, with a boot on his throat telling him there will be no compromise) the Biden Administration is determined to escalate this war.

        https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/01/19/uk … illusions/

        When people say this is Putin's War, I have to disagree, as do many well informed individuals.  This is Biden's war as much, if not more, than it is Putin's:

        https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/04/29/ru … n-endgame/

        The U.S. intends to keep this war going. The administration will continue to supply the Ukrainians with anti-aircraft Stingers, antitank Javelins, HIMARS and explosive Switchblade drones. It will keep trying to persuade other North Atlantic Treaty Organization governments to supply heavier defensive weaponry.

        The Biden Administration will continue to feed this war, continue to allow strikes into Russia (Putin and most Russians consider Crimea part of Russia, not some occupied territory) until this escalates into something far worse, that affects the entire world.

        Whether you choose to accept that this war began in 2014 when then VP Biden addressed the Ukrainian Assembly in person and promised to take Crimea back and punish Russia...

        Or whether you recognize that war was declared by Zelensky back in 2021 when he told the world that he planned on taking Crimea back by force.  Ultimately this is a war that could have been avoided and was started in earnest by the efforts of figures like Biden and Zelensky.

        https://apnews.com/article/europe-ukrai … 10882bf952

        The alternative?

        Letting Russia keep the Russian populated, Russian speaking, historically Russian state that had seceded and been part of Russia (again) for six straight years without any war being fought, until now.

        Negotiating the Donbas region skirmish to an acceptable resolution or armistice and keeping the world at peace.

        That was the alternative, a wise leader would have chosen it, a leader determined to save the world from untold horrors would have chosen it, a psychopath, or group of power hungry psychopaths, would choose the road we are currently on.

        1. DrMark1961 profile image100
          DrMark1961posted 2 years agoin reply to this

          I do not know enough about the Ukrania situation to comment but your last paragraph reminded me of what the US was doing in the Iran/Iraq war. Reagen sent arms to Sadam, the weaker side, so that the people there would kill each other,

          Things like that tend to come back around later.

        2. Readmikenow profile image95
          Readmikenowposted 2 years agoin reply to this

          No Ken,  I’m afraid it is YOU who remain ignorant and the highest levels. You should not talk about Ukraine as you have no idea of its history.

          Let’s take Crimea.

          Following the Communist Revolution of 1917 Crimea was made an autonomous part of the Soviet Union in 1921. However, in 1941 the Germans invaded the Soviet Union. They captured Sevastopol in 1942. In 1944 the Russians liberated Crimea but Stalin accused the Crimean Tatars of co-operating with the Germans. Stalin deported vast numbers of Crimean Tatars to other parts of the Soviet Union. Crimea lost its autonomy and became part of Russia. (In 1954 it was made part of Ukraine. From the 1950s onward large numbers of Russians and Ukrainians went to live in Crimea).

          Do you know what the word “autonomous” means?  “of a country or region having the freedom to govern itself or control its own affairs.  Crimea has never before been a willing part of Russia.  Even before it was annexed. the Ukrainians called Crimea the autonomous region.  Have you ever talked with someone from Crimea?  Trust me when I tell you, they DO NOT like Russians.  So, maybe you need to check your history before you display your lack of knowledge.

          During the 1950s, the Ukrainians were conducting a successful gruella war against the Russians and causing massive destruction. The Russian agreed to make Crimea part of the Ukraine if the hostilities ceased.  They did, and the Soviet Union made Crimea part of the Ukraine.  This was agreeable to Ukrainians because at the time so many Ukrainians lived there.  It was agreeable to Crimea because Ukraine quickly agreed to return it to its autonomous status.

          Yes, the war did start in 2014.  This is when massive numbers of Russian soldiers who had been posing as civilians and moving into the breakaway republics made their move.  Russia equipped them and trained them and they then attacked Ukraine.  This was the initial proxy war started by Russia.  There were cease-fire agreements after Ukraine had taken back over 34 of the 60 providences it lost.

          So, Zelensky said he would take back Crimea by force.  It makes sense. 
          If the Cubans annexed Puerto Rico and refused to leave then considered Puerto Rico part of Cuba, what would you do?  Guess what? In most parts of the world this would be considered an act of war. 

          “When people say this is Putin's War, I have to disagree, as do many well informed individuals.  This is Biden's war as much, if not more, than it is Putin's.”

          I don’t know who these alleged “well-informed individuals" are…but they are idiots.  It is Putin’s war.  He attacked a sovereign nation that was no threat to him.  If Putin was a sane and rational human being, all of these differences could have been worked out by negotiations. 

          You are so detached from the reality of this war.  Information you provide is always less than worthless.

          There is no going back.  Ukrainians (and most of the western world) support Zelinisky’s approach of getting back all of Ukrainian territory taken by Russia.  The Russians have done too much and caused too much horror.  They have behaved the same as the Nazis in World War II.  They have committed too many war crimes and crimes against humanity. Would you have supported giving the Nazis the territories of France and Poland for peace in the 1940s?

          This is now an all-out war.  There will be no peace until Russia is removed from Ukrainian territory.  It does not matter how long it takes or what the price.  Russia will lose this conflict or be destroyed by it.

          1. Ken Burgess profile image71
            Ken Burgessposted 2 years agoin reply to this

            Now see, THIS is a good reply!

            This isn't some rehashed crud from some hack "news" agency like CNN.

            This is from someone who knows people in Ukraine, who knows Ukrainian history, etc.

            I can respect this.

            Mike, as to the historical facts and as to Russia's actions to infiltrate its people into Crimea prior to the secession in 2014, I agree with your views and where there are differences it isn't worth delving into.

            However, there has been significant and substantial interference in Ukrainian affairs going back to 2004, essentially it was only a matter of years from the dissolution of the U.S.S.R. before Western agents were involved with efforts to "liberate" nations out of the Russian sphere of influence and into the West's (American) influence.

            There was the "insurrection" and overthrow of the Ukrainian government and then the secession of Crimea BEFORE an elected and representative government took hold in Ukraine, the "transitory" government was run by pro-Western, anti-Russian puppets, intent on antagonizing and eliminating pro-Russian Ukranians and Russian sympathizers.

            This was always a push for power and control by America, same as our interference in Syria, Libya, Iraq, anywhere we go.  And if America doesn't get its way it leaves a wasteland where once a Nation was.

            I am not defending Putin or Russia, I am not absolving their actions, but to think Ukraine is going to come out of this better for it is delusional.

            Ukraine, especially Crimea, will fare no better than Iraq, Syria, or anywhere else in the last 20 years where America "liberated".

            There were far easier ways to resolve this without the massive amounts of death, destruction, and horror that is being unleashed now.

            Sorry to disagree with you in this, but it was avoidable, and if there were people in Crimea unhappy with Russian rule, they could have left.

            This war on Russia has been planned for 20 years, I was in a position to know.  What the excuses were for that war hadn't come to fruition yet, but they would find/create them... and they have.

            1. Readmikenow profile image95
              Readmikenowposted 2 years agoin reply to this

              "This war on Russia has been planned for 20 years, I was in a position to know. "

              In Ukraine, people who believe Russian porppaganda and follow the Russian view on things have a very derogatory slang term applied to them.  In English, it would sound like you were being called a "Vinski." If you were to go to Ukrainian political sites on the internet, your views and attitudes do mirror those of a Vinski. 

              Really?  Russia invades a sovereign nation, and it is a war against them?  Your statement lacks logic.

              As far as Crimea goes, "if there were people in Crimea unhappy with Russian rule, they could have left"

              Interesting attitude.  If a country invades your home, takes it over and you don't like it, just leave.  Hey, let Russia then invade Florida, take over your home, make Russian the official language, changes the town names and street signs to Russian, deport all the leaders and their families in Florida back to Russia and then have thousands of Russian citizens come and take up residence in Florida.  They could then have a controlled economy and forbid any other type of media other than Russian.  And if you don't like it, hey, just leave.  Isn't that your logic?

              Doesn't make sense to me.

        3. CHRIS57 profile image59
          CHRIS57posted 2 years agoin reply to this

          Ken, i think it is an illusion to attribute the continuation of the war to foreign influence, especially from the USA.

          Yes, the USA and NATO allies support Ukraine heavily with military equipment. Yes, the war could probably have been over without this support.

          But the threat from Russia would not be over. I listened to too many public statements from Putin. He is pushing "Russky mir", the Russian world, the idea of a slavic superpower dominating and (so to speak) protecting all people within that family of languages.

          As much as i am pro Russia in many aspects, i think the "planning" for the war was not done by the West, but by Russia itself. The West´s plan was to keep Russia and GUS weak. Mistakes in that plan, like the Georgia/Ossetia incident were exploited by Russia to form the narrative of a western threat.

          A lot of Ukrainians fled to western Europe. In my city we now have some 2% (4000) of residents to be registered refugees from Ukraine. All speak good Russian, for most this being their native language. Following interviews from locals in the warzones of Ukraine, i was amazed how many speak Russian, but are offended by the Russian invasion. I personally had to change my initial impression of a country being divided by a language barrier.

          There is this permanent Russian narrative of fighting Nazis. My explanation is that "fighting Nazis" is the only real historic victory against foreign powers that Russians can relate too. Beginning with the Crimean War in the 1850ties (Britain, Turkey) to Port Arthur (lost battle of Tsushima against Japan 1905) first uprising against the zar. Then the battle of Tannenberg 1915 (WWI Germany) left Russia off balance and eventually led to the Revolution and subsequent peace treaty.

          So whenever the Russian Empire tried to fight a foreign power, they failed. Putin deliberately implanted the narrative of Nazis (initially right wing Asov regiment came in handy), because fighting and winning against Nazis is what all Russians understand und support. That was their only victory!! Well, we all know this Nazi stuff is bs.

          During WW2 the German losses on the East Front (Soviet Union) were multiple times higher that on all other fronts. If you want to scare people of how terrible war was and is, you name "East Front" here in G. In the first 7 months of attacking the Soviet Union, Nazi Germany had some 850.000 casualties. They attacked with roughly 3 mill. troups. If you compare this to the situation in Ukraine today, then the attack force of Russia suffered much more than Germans did in WW2. In other words, the likelyhood of a Russian in Ukraine to be killed of wounded is 4 times higher than in 1941 for Germans (from Ukrainian numbers), and still twice as high if you follow conservative British MOD numbers.

          This war is not a TV show, this war is very, very brutal. Atrocities and war crimes hitting the innocent are almost inevitable, from both sides.

          In war the first victim is truth.
          After war, truth is with the victors.

          1. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
            Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

            is it too simplistic to say that Russia's demand for Ukraine to stay out of NATO and Ukraine's lack of cooperation is the basic cause of the conflict/war?

            1. Fayetteville Faye profile image60
              Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this

              Why should one nation dictate what another nation is able to do or not do? That seems absurd.

              The point is, they're committing horrendous atrocities.

              1. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
                Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                The point is Zelinsky should have respected the leader of the country next door to him which is way more powerful than him ... and spared his people and the people of the world what he is currently putting them through.
                Again, I say thanks for absolutely nothing, Zelinsky ... you who now take a position of dictating to America what stance it should take ... sitting there in your green tee shirt. Right.
                Answer this question for us: What is war good for?
                 
                You should Know by now.

                1. Readmikenow profile image95
                  Readmikenowposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                  "respected the leader of the country next door to him"

                  You have no idea what you are talking about.  In the realm of reality, when a foreign nation tries to take over your country, you have a right to defend yourself.  I suggest you read about the history of Russia and how they've treated Ukraine.  You obviously lack a lot of knowledge on the subject.  Your comment prove this.

              2. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
                Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                The two countries have a shared history and culture. The situation is a true tragedy. Families, friends and neighbors torn apart, brutalized and victimized. No one wanted this war and now everyone is truly going berserk. Especially the poor young men who are drafted and forced to fight.
                God himself is confused, I surmise.
                Satan is not, I presume.

                1. Readmikenow profile image95
                  Readmikenowposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                  "The two countries have a shared history and culture."

                  You need to read about Holodomor.  Look it up.  Learn about the shared history of Ukraine under Soviet rule.  The first war between Ukraine and Russia was in the 1600s.  The current war is number 6.  Quite a history, huh?

                  The only culture they share is what Russia has stolen from Ukraine.  Did you know the dish called borsht that people claim to be Russian is something actually created by Ukrainians? This is just one of many things stolen by Russia.  I could go on, but I hope you grasp what I'm saying.

              3. Ken Burgess profile image71
                Ken Burgessposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                Well, that was good for a laugh.

                "Why should one nation dictate what another nation is able to do or not do?"

                You see no irony in this, I am sure.

                1. Fayetteville Faye profile image60
                  Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                  Not at all

                  1. Ken Burgess profile image71
                    Ken Burgessposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                    Of course not.

                    America has not dictated to any nation what it could, or couldn't do.

                    America has never taken military action against any nation, to serve its own needs and interests.

                    America has never sent CIA operatives and other types of agents into nations to begin insurrections and fund and arm militant opposition.

                    I am glad we have such an honest and truthful government that does no wrong.

              4. Sharlee01 profile image84
                Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this

                Faye, what the hell... Do you feel for instance would be a safe and responsible nation to have Nuclear weapons in Iran or North Korea?  Do you feel it would be fair for any nation to dictate over certain seaways, would you find it suitable for China to dictate what sails on the South  China Sea?  Do you feel one nation should dictate the oil prices? Because without many forms of interventions all of the above would be fact.  China would dictate the China sea, Iran, and North  Korea would most likely have nukes, and Oil prices would be dictated solely by the middle east.

                Should we Dictate laws in regard to wars or should anything go?

                1. Fayetteville Faye profile image60
                  Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                  I'm a little lost. Going back to the specific situation of Ukraine, are you saying that Ukraine should have succumbed to the wishes of Putin? That they have no rights as a sovereign nation? That anyone can roll over their borders and they have to accept it?

                  1. Sharlee01 profile image84
                    Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this

                    My comment was in regard to your comment ---  FAYETTEVILLE FAYE WROTE:
                    Why should one nation dictate what another nation is able to do or not do? That seems absurd.

                    The point is, they're committing horrendous atrocities.

                    To address your latest comment
                    No, they are a sovereign nation, however, we had no right to even become involved except for peacekeeping. We are in no respect the protectors of the world.  We literally have run this entire war from the start.  We did not try diplomacy via NATO or the UN.  This could have been an avoidable war in my view. And no I would not have wanted Ukraine overtaken. With true diplomacy, NATO and the US could have openly said they would send in troops and enable Russia if they threatened a sovereign nation. This is what strong leaders do. Not, say we will fight you with the blood of the Ukraine people. This administration leads through weak words and even weaker sanctions.

                    This is Biden's war, he is fighting a proxy war, that could have been settled with
                    diplomacy, and a stick to say --- you will have all the might of the US and NATO troops at your throats. This is the most discussed thing I have witnessed in my lifetime.

                    I guess this is part of the new way Democrats feel they can fight wars. I find this concept vile.   Supply weapons and don't worry about casualties.  Sickening, and it gets more so every day.

              5. Readmikenow profile image95
                Readmikenowposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                It seems that you and I agree on more than we realize.  I agree with you on this one.

          2. Ken Burgess profile image71
            Ken Burgessposted 2 years agoin reply to this

            Chris,

            I know a few things about American "Democracy Building" and how these issues develop.

            I even know a little about Ukraine.

            Decades ago, I was in a relationship with a Ukrainian, one of the few stern corrections I ever got from her was when I mistakenly called her Russian because she spoke Russian.

            When it comes to what a combat environment entails I have some small knowledge of understanding.

            There are a lot of ways things could have developed differently over the last 20 years... let me emphasize that... the last 20 years. We are here now because this is where the people with the power to make sure war happened, or didn't happen, drove matters.

            1. CHRIS57 profile image59
              CHRIS57posted 2 years agoin reply to this

              "Democracy building" is what Americans try to do in Ukraine. Had the side effect of the Donbas conflict since 2014.

              But it takes two to tango. And in the current situation it is Putin´s Russia that tries "Russification", not any American led infiltration of western ideas into Ukraine.

              Politics is led by interests. Most of the time these interests are conflicting, but mostly interests are driven by some kind of rational.

              From the Russian side i don´t see any rational interests to be pursued. This is pure "of the stomach" thinking of Putin to return Russia to the might of Catherine the Great and her lover Potemkin. Potemkin included Crimea into the Russian Empire. But that was 18th century politics that is revived since 2014 and today.

              No "American Democracy Building", only Putin´s dream of "Russian Empire Building".

              1. Readmikenow profile image95
                Readmikenowposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                You are absolutely right. 

                I've recently looked at the numbers of casualties for Russia.  They've have over 55,000 killed.  This has happened in a span of seven months.

                To put things in perspective, The United States had approximately 58,000 military people killed fighting in Viet Nam from 1967 to 1973, a span of 8 years.

                I wonder how long Russia can suffer this number of war dead and continue to fight the war.

              2. Ken Burgess profile image71
                Ken Burgessposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                Crimea's relationship with Russia is not black and white.
                Nor is it's relationship with Ukraine.

                Oct 18, 1921    The Soviet Union establishes the Crimean Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic within the Russian SFSR. The autonomous republic is run as a Tatar enclave within the Russian SFSR.

                May 18, 1944    Stalin begins mass deportation of Crimean Tatars from Crimea for collaborating with the Germans during World War II. Most are settled in Uzbekistan. It is estimated that as many as 46.2% of Crimean Tatars perished in the aftermath (Allworth 1988). (The low end of estimates put the number around 20%.)

                Jun 30, 1945    The Crimean Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic is stripped of its autonomous status as a result of the alleged crimes of the Crimean Tatar people during World War II. It becomes merely an oblast of the Russian SFSR. Russian emigration into the Crimea under Soviet authority has been going on since before the Great War, but Stalin accelerates the migration of Russians, Ukrainians and Belarusians into Crimea in the aftermath of the Tatar resettlement.

                Apr 29, 1954    Under Khrushchev, the Soviet Union transfers the Crimea from the Russian SFSR to the Ukrainian SSR. This move is done in marking the 300th anniversary of the Pereiaslav Agreement which, in large part, marked the beginning of Ukrainian subjugation to the Muscovite Empire. The official party line has declared this the beginning of the long Russo-Ukrainian friendship.

                Mar 30, 1990    The Ukraine government required Crimean Russians to set their clocks to the same time as the rest of Ukraine for the first time since 1994, when the Russians had switched to Moscow time in protest. The Ukraine government had initially tolerated a second time zone within Ukraine, but required the Crimeans to come into line after four years. (The Independent [London] 3/28/97)

                Jul 16, 1990    The Ukrainian SSR declares its state sovereignty.

                Sep 1990    The Crimean Supreme Soviet calls upon the Supreme Soviets of the Soviet Union and Russian SFSR to nullify the decisions to strip Crimea of its autonomous status.

                Jan 20, 1991    A referendum is held in the Crimea on restoring autonomy to the region. Over 80% of the electorate participates, of which 93.26% supported the "restoration of the Crimean ASSR as a subject of the USSR and as a party to the Union Treaty."

                Feb 12, 1991    The Ukrainian Supreme Soviet restores the Crimea as an autonomous republic within the borders of the Ukraine.

                Aug 1991    An attempted coup against Gorbachev fails on the 21st. On the 24th, the Ukrainian Supreme Soviet declares the Ukraine's independence and on the same day, the Republican Movement of Crimea (which later becomes the Republican Party of Crimea) is established by Yurii Meshkov. The movement is officially registered as a movement in November.

                Sep 4, 1991    The Crimean parliament declares the state sovereignty of Crimea as a constituent part of the Ukraine.

                Dec 1, 1991    A referendum is held in the Ukraine on independence simultaneously with presidential elections. Leonid Kravchuk is elected the first president of the Ukraine, and the independence of the Ukraine is supported by the referendum. However, Crimean support for Ukrainian independence was the lowest of all of the Ukraine (only 54% in favor) with very low turnout (65%). Support not only for Russia, but for the Soviet Union, is extremely high in Crimea as much of the population is related to the Soviet military and the Black Sea Fleet.

                Jan 1992    The Russian Foreign Ministry and parliament condemn the transfer of Crimea to the Ukraine in 1954.

                Jan 15, 1992    The Union of Ukrainian Naval Officers in Sevastopol protests what they see as Russian intervention in Ukrainian internal affairs.

                Feb 26, 1992    The Crimean parliament changes the name of the region from the Crimean ASSR to the Crimean Republic.

                Apr 1992    In a visit to Crimea, Russian Vice President Rutskoi calls for the secession of Crimea from the Ukraine.

                May 5, 1992    Crimea's parliament declares total independence subject to approval in a referendum to be held in August 1992.

                May 13, 1992    The Ukrainian parliament declares the Crimean parliament's independence declaration unconstitutional and gives them until May 20 to rescind it. They also give President Kravchuk the power to use all necessary means to halt Crimean independence.

                May 20, 1992    In reaction to the Ukrainian ultimatum, the Crimean parliament rescinds its declaration of independence, but only suspends the referendum on independence. They also suggest that Kiev suspend its law on Crimean autonomy and begin negotiating a new delineation of power between Kiev and Simferopol.

                May 21, 1992    The Russian parliament passes a resolution declaring the 1954 transfer of Crimea illegal and calling for negotiations on the future of Crimea. This move is supported by some Russian nationalists and Communists in Crimea.

                Jun 1, 1992    Crimean and Ukrainian parliaments agree to a compromise in which Crimea is granted greater autonomy and special economic status. Crimean Tatars condemn the agreement as they were not a party to the negotiations.

                Jun 23, 1992    The Dagomys Summit between the Ukraine and Russia takes place. An agreement is signed dividing the Black Sea Fleet equally by 1995.

                Jun 30, 1992    Kiev passes a law granting Crimea greater autonomy as they agreed to, but made its enactment contingent on (1) Crimea's amendment of its constitution to bring into line with the Ukraine's, and (2) the complete annulment of the independence referendum. Crimea later imposes a moratorium on the referendum.

                Jul 9, 1992    The Russian parliament declares Sevastopol a Russian city. The declaration is quickly disavowed by Russian President Yeltsin. Later in the month, the U. N. Security Council declares the Russian parliament's declaration on Sevastopol a violation of the UN Charter and the 1990 Russo-Ukrainian treaty recognizing existing borders. Yeltsin supports the UNSC declaration.

                Aug 1992    At Yalta, Kravchuk and Yeltsin agree on details of how they are to divide the Black Sea Fleet. They also agree that Sevastopol is to be leased to Russia for basing of the fleet. Both Russian and Ukrainian nationalists attack the agreement.

                Sep 1992    Crimea revises its constitution to meet the Ukraine's requirements.

                Dec 17, 1992    The Ukrainian parliament passes the Law on the Representation of the President of Ukraine in the Republic of Crimea.

                Jan 10, 1993    Over 2,000 protesters hold an unauthorized demonstration in Sevastopol calling for separation from Ukraine, price reductions, dismissal of the presidential representative in Sevastopol, and the transfer of the representative's powers to the city council and Executive Committee.

                Jan 13, 1993    A Russian, Rear Admiral Baltin, was confirmed by both Ukrainian and Russian presidents as commander of the Black Sea Fleet.

                Jan 18 - 20, 1993    Anti-Ukrainian demonstrations again take place in Sevastopol and Simferopol. This time they are organized by the All Crimean Movement of Electors for a Crimean Republic, the Republican Movement of Crimea, Yedinstvo, and the Union of Communists. Demands include the transfer of Crimea back to Russian jurisdiction and early elections be held for all government bodies. The Simferopol demonstration, numbering about 1,000 and led by Meshkov, goes past the parliament building and is unauthorized. The demonstration of the 17th attracted about 5,000 people. In all, the series of demonstrations attracted less than 10,000 people.

                Jan 22, 1993    Ukrainian PM Kuchma states that the government should be examining the question of making Sevastopol a free economic zone.

                Mar 23, 1993    The Party for the Economic Rebirth of Crimea holds a congress during which it calls for economic, political and legal measures to expedite the development of Crimea as a democratic state within Ukraine.

                Apr 6, 1993    The Crimean parliament passes a resolution demanding that Ukraine and Russia reaffirm their allegiance to the Yalta agreement on the fleet.

                Apr 14, 1993    The Presidium of the Crimean parliament calls for the creation of the post of president. The issue is to be on the upcoming sessions agenda.

                Apr 25, 1993    Two vessels of the Black Sea Fleet pledge allegiance to Ukraine. The Ukrainian Defense Ministry accepts the ships into the Ukrainian Navy. The fleet command denounces this move as a violation of the Yalta agreement.

                May 5, 1993    President Kravchuk meets with Crimean Chairman Bahrov. They discuss an amendment to the Ukrainian Constitution concerning the division of powers between Kiev and Sevastopol, the establishment of committees to decide the division of property in Crimea, and the allowance of dual Russian-Ukrainian citizenship for Crimean residents.

                May 24, 1993    115 ships of the Black Sea Fleet raise the Russian flag to protest discrepancies between the pay Russian and Ukrainian sailors receive.

                May 31, 1993    The Defense Council meets over the situation with the fleet. The Congress of Ukrainian Nationalists declares that all ships flying the Russian flag be withdrawn from Ukrainian waters and the Yalta and Dagomys agreements be voided.

                Jun 1, 1993    Over 200 ships of the fleet raise the Russian naval ensign. The following day, Ukrainian Defense Minister states that the crews of ships flying the Russian flag would not be paid by Kiev.

                Jun 8, 1993    The Ukrainian Defense Ministry issues statement renouncing plans to lease Sevastopol to Russia.

                Jun 16, 1993    The Crimean parliament passes a decree appealing to both the Ukrainian and Russian presidents to maintain the fleet jointly with Sevastopol as the home port. They also call on them to resolve to lessen the hardships faced by the seamen of the fleet. The following day Kravchuk and Yeltsin agree to divide the fleet equally into Russian and Ukrainian fleets. Yeltsin promises to contribute to socioeconomic programs wherever Russian naval forces are stationed.

                Jun 25, 1993    Kravchuk declares Crimea a free economic zone. The following day, protests are held against the agreement by officers of the fleet and workers' unions.

                Jun 29, 1993    The Conference of Black Sea Fleet Officers protest the division of the fleet. They call on fleet commanders to raise the Russian ensign on July 1 in protest. A report on July 5, said that 220 of the fleet support ships were still flying the Russian flag, while only three were flying the Ukrainian flag. All combat vessels are required to fly the Soviet era flag.

                Jul 9, 1993    The Russian parliament passes a resolution declaring Sevastopol the home port of a unified Russian Black Sea Fleet and Russian territory. The resolution is condemned by Ukrainian groups throughout Crimea, the Ukrainian parliament and most Western governments.

                Jul 16, 1993    The anti-Ukrainian Popular Assembly declares that only Russian laws should be valid in the city of Sevastopol, new elections to the city council should be held, Sevastopol deputies in Kiev should be dismissed and new elections for deputies to be sent to Russia should be held, the Ukrainian naval headquarters should be removed forcibly from Sevastopol, and Russia should cut off oil deliveries to Ukraine. The declarations are accompanied by anti-Ukrainian / pro-Russian demonstrations. Meshkov makes statement that once Sevastopol is reunited with Russia, the rest of Crimea would soon follow. Non-Russians throughout Crimea and in Kiev denounce the statement. Most of these sentiments are not held by Russians in the rest of Ukraine. Many Crimean Russians yearn for a return to the Soviet Union and re-establishment of Soviet authority in Ukraine.

                Jul 21, 1993    The UNSC declares the Russian parliament's resolution on Sevastopol in violation of the UN Charter and the 1990 Russo-Ukrainian treaty establishing their common borders.

                Jul 26, 1993    Demonstrators in Sevastopol (approximately 2,000) demand the transfer of the fleet to Russia. Victor Prusakov of the Russian Society of Crimea threatens to take up arms to restore Sevastopol to Russia.

                Sep 3, 1993    Yeltsin and Kravchuk hold a summit during which Yeltsin suggests that Ukraine trade its share of the fleet to pay off its huge debt to Russia for fuel. Kravchuk rejects the idea pointing out that they had been planning to sell part of the fleet on the market to boost their finances.

                Sep 17, 1993    The Crimean parliament passes a law providing for the election of a president of the Crimean Republic.

                Sep 28, 1993    Bahrov, speaker of the Crimean parliament threatens to resign in protest the parliament's refusal to guarantee Crimean Tatars representation. The parliament refuses to accept the resignation.

                Oct 14, 1993    The Crimean parliament sets presidential elections for January 16, 1994.

                Dec 15, 1993    Andrii Lazenbnykov, a campaign worker for presidential candidate Yermakov (the Ukrainian presidential representative in Sevastopol) and press secretary for the Black Sea Fleet is murdered. A bomb does minor damage to the home of Eskander Memetov, economic advisor to Bahrov the next day.

                Jan 10, 1994    Supporters of the pro-Russian nationalist, Meshkov disrupt a speech by Bahrov. Charges are leveled at Meshkov of waging a "pathological terror campaign."

                Jan 16, 1994    Over 80% of registered voters vote in the presidential elections. No winner emerges; the top two candidates are Mehkov with 38.2% of the vote, and Bahrov with 17.6% of the vote. The run-offs are scheduled for January 30.

                Jan 20, 1994    Kiev's parliament votes to allow the president to nullify any acts by either central agencies or Crimean authorities which violate the constitution.

                Jan 25, 1994    Kravchuk meets with advisors of Meshkov and Bahrov. He assures them that he does not intend to intervene against the Republican Movement. He also reiterated his opposition to dual citizenship.

                Jan 30, 1994    The presidential run-offs are held. Meshkov wins with 75% of the vote and Bahrov resigns from parliament - although the resignation was rejected again by the parliament.

                Feb 4, 1994    Meshkov is sworn in as president. He praises Ukraine and President Kravchuk, and in meetings with him works on economic agreements.

                Feb 24, 1994    The Ukrainian parliament finds that Crimea did not have the right to have independent defense and monetary policies and they rejected the idea of a separate Crimean citizenship. They also placed a deadline on the Crimean parliament to get Crimean law into line with Ukrainian. Bahrov denounces the resolution by the Ukrainian parliament in a meeting with Kravchuk and Ukrainian Supreme Soviet chairman.

                Mar 4, 1994    The Rossiya electoral bloc urges Crimeans to boycott the upcoming Ukrainian parliamentary elections (set for March 27).

                Mar 6, 1994    400 Russian nationalists protest in Sevastopol against presidents Kravchuk and Clinton. Kravchuk is meeting with Clinton in Washington.

                Mar 11, 1994    The Crimean parliament appoints a former Russian minister of economics as deputy prime minister. The Crimean branch of the Ukrainian Republican Party and the Ukrainian Civic Congress adopt a resolution denouncing the Crimean decree on holding a referendum on independence. They also demanded that Kravchuk abolish the Crimean presidency.

                Mar 14, 1994    Crimean parliament adopts a budget which calls for taxes and tariffs to be appropriated in Simferopol instead of Kiev. The Central Election Commission declares Meshkov's referendum on independence illegal. Two days later, Kravchuk follows suit declaring the referendum null and void; he states that Meshkov has exceeded his authority. Meshkov vows to go ahead with the referendum anyway.

                Mar 21, 1994    Meshkov sets up a special commission to conduct a nonbinding referendum on the status of the Crimea.

                Mar 25, 1994    The Ukrainian Defense Ministry declares illegal a decree by Meshkov requiring that Crimean citizens may only perform military service on Crimean soil.

                Mar 27, 1994    The Crimea holds the referendum 1.3 million voted, 78.4% of whom supported greater autonomy from Ukraine, 82.8% supported allowing dual Russian-Ukrainian citizenship, and 77.9% favored giving Crimean presidential decrees the force of law. The first round of both Crimean and Ukrainian elections also take place. In the Crimea, the Rossiya bloc gets 67% of the vote, the Communist Party 11%, and the Party of Economic Rebirth 7%.

                Apr 1994    Crimean President Meshkov removes the chief of internal affairs ministry (the police) who was appointed by Kiev and replaces him with a Crimean, Valerii Kuznetsov. The situation becomes decidedly heated as both sides issue threats and counter-threats. General Kuznetsov declares on Rossiya Radio that Crimea is in essence Russian and will be a part of Russia.

                Apr 15, 1994    Kravchuk and Yeltsin sign an agreement on the fleet dispute. The agreement calls for the fleet's division with Ukraine getting 15-20% of the ships. It also is to set up separate Russian and Ukrainian bases.

                Apr 22, 1994    The Russian-Ukrainian talks over the fleet break down with no final agreement signed. The talks broke down over the issue of what bases the Russians would be allowed to use. Separately in Crimea, 13 Crimean political parties sign an "Accord for Rebirth." The accord is not signed by Communist Party of Crimea, Ukrainian Republican Movement, Ukrainian Civic Congress of Crimea, nor the Mejlis. The signing came after a week of pro-Russian demonstrations in front of the local parliament.

                May 1994    Kravchuk orders the removal of Kuznetsov as chief of the internal affairs ministry, but he is unable to enforce the order. Compromise is later reached between the offices of the two presidents; there is to be both a Ukrainian and Crimean internal affairs ministry presence.

                May 6, 1994    Russians in Crimea celebrate Crimean Constitution Day in Simferopol. The festivities include a rally for Crimean independence which is attended by 15,000 people.

                Jun 4, 1994    Agreement is reached between deputies of the Crimean and Ukrainian parliaments. The deputies agree that Crimean law is overridden by the Ukrainian constitution and that both sides should come to agreement on a division of powers between Kiev and Simferopol. The accord is rejected by the Crimean parliament three days later.

                Jun 28, 1994    The Ukrainian parliament attempts to assert Ukrainian control over all police units in the Ministry of Internal Affairs. The Crimean parliament counters by repealing all Ukrainian laws which contradict Crimean law.

                Jul 1, 1994    The Crimean parliament votes to assume full powers on the territory of Crimea except for those which it voluntarily delegates to Kiev. They also condemn the Ukrainian leadership for violating the Crimean Constitution and law.

                Jul 6, 1994    The Crimean parliament passes a resolution invalidating a decree from Kiev placing the Crimean militia under the control of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Ukraine.

                Jul 19, 1994    Leonid Kuchma is sworn in as president of Ukraine. He won the election with 52.14% of the vote. The leader of Mejlis warns that this could make the situation for his group (the Tatars) worse. Kravchuk did well in western Ukraine, and Kuchma did well in eastern Ukraine and Crimea.

                Jul 21, 1994    A law allowing dual citizenship in the peninsula passes its first reading in the Crimean parliament. The parliament is also said to be considering charging both the Russians and Ukrainians for use of Crimean land for their military installations. Russia has paid only irregularly for use of its naval bases and Ukraine has not paid at all.

                Aug 3, 1994    The Crimean minister of economics reports that Crimea is becoming more and more dependent on Ukraine for trade and less so on Russia. He reported that 80% of Crimean manufactures are sold in Ukraine.

                Aug 4, 1994    It is revealed that on July 18 Meshkov created the Service of the President of the Republic of Crimea for Security and International Affairs. The new service answers only to the president and is headed by a former Russian special services operative. This is the third special services office to operate in Crimea; the other two are operated by Ukraine and parliament.

                Aug 6, 1994    Kuchma issues two decrees which place the government under his direct control and subordinates all local and regional councils to his authority. This move is not challenged by the parliament which has ten days to do so (otherwise the decrees become law).

                Aug 23, 1994    The Sevastopol city council decided to declare Sevastopol a Russian city, making the city subject only to Russian legislation. The resolution was backed by 36 of the 42 members and was immediately denounced as illegal by Ukrainian authorities.

                Sep 11, 1994    Crimean President Meshkov suspends the Crimean parliament and all local councils, and has assumed all political powers within the republic. Meshkov's decree states that a draft constitution is to be drawn up December 9 and voted on in a referendum by April 9. Within three months of the approval of a new constitution, new elections are to be held and new local bodies to be created. This move follows the parliament's vote to curtail his powers 4 days earlier. Later, Meshkov offers to begin talks with parliament only if they rescinded the amendments curtailing his powers.

                Sep 22, 1994    Meshokov suspends his decree dissolving parliament in order to begin talks with the parliament. Meanwhile, the position of the central government in Kiev has been low-keyed and non-intrusive. Kuchma has called on both sides to resolve the dispute peacefully, saying that the central authority would only intervene if "disorder" broke out. Kuchma also proposed a compromise of both sides cancelling their decrees. Both sides rejected the proposal. In the wake of this, he has declared that if they do not resolve the dispute peacefully, he will rescind Crimea's autonomous status. A poll is reported showing only 23% of Crimeans support Meshkov. The report which gave this statistic also reported that leader of the Tatar (Kuraltai) faction of parliament has said that it would be better to live as an oblast of Ukraine than under Meshkov.

                Sep 29, 1994    The parliament moves to strip Meshkov and the presidency of all powers, making the prime minister the chief executive (the vote was 68 in favor, 11 against, and 14 abstained). A week later, the parliament votes Anatoly Franchuk the new prime minister. Franchuk is a close friend of Kuchma. The Russia bloc, the largest party in Crimea, has split into two factions over the battle between Meshkov and the parliament. "Russia" is still headed by Serhii Nikulin and supports Meshkov, while the new faction, "Russia-Unity" opposes Meshkov due to what they term his "betrayal" of the interests of the party to reunite Crimea with Russia.

                Oct 1994    The Sevastopol city council has decided it can no longer afford to hand over its tax revenues to Kiev due to its economic crisis.

                Nov 28, 1994    Russia begins to institute dual citizenship for citizens in CIS member countries unilaterally. There is wide concern that this may provide Russia with even greater leverage in Crimea where Viktor Mezhak, Crimean Supreme Soviet deputy chairman, predicted 1.5 million of Crimea's 1.7 million Russians would apply.

                Jan 4, 1995    According to a recent poll, more than half of all Crimeans believe their peninsula is run by the mafia. Only 10% thought parliament was running the country and 2% thought their president and prime minister were in charge.

                Mar 1995    The Ukrainian parliament rescinded Crimea's constitution and abolished the post of Crimean President. Ukrainian president Kuchma said the region's parliament could be dissolved if it continued to violate Ukraine's Constitution. By abolishing the presidency, Ukraine left regional power in Crimea in the hands of its Prime Minister Anatoliy Franchuk. Officials said Ukrainian state ministries, including the military and police, would enforce Ukrainian laws and the dismantling of the Crimean presidency. Unrest continued through May as a result of these moves. The move is supported by Mejlis leaders. Reports have indicated that presumably Kiev will recognize the Mejlis as the representative body of the Crimean Tatar people, a move which Crimean authorities have refused to do and which likely will rile the NMCT.

                Apr 17, 1995    Ukrainian Cossacks and Crimean Tatars attempt to raise a Ukrainian flag in Simferopol near the city council, but a large group of Russians blocks their way. No overt violence was reported. Russian President Yeltsin announced he would not sign a friendship treaty with Ukraine until it resolves its dispute with Russian nationalists in its Crimean region.

                Apr 19, 1995    Russian Foreign Minister Kazyrev warned that Russia is prepared to use force to protect the rights of ethnic Russians living in the former Soviet republics. He noted that Russia could use a range of diplomatic, political and economic means to protect such Russians, adding that Moscow would not exclude the use of force. He insisted he was staking out a moderate position and warned against extremists who might appeal to nationalism in upcoming elections.

                May 1, 1995    About 4000 people marked May Day in Simferopol shouting slogans upholding Crimea's right to independence and condemning Ukraine's efforts to crush Crimean separatism.

                Jul 6, 1995    Pro-Russian chairman of the Crimean Parliament Sergei Tsekov was replaced by Yevgeny Suprunyuk.

                Aug 1996    Crimean Parliament Chairman Suprunyuk was kidnapped by unknown assailants. He was held for two days and then escaped. Crimea is plagued by clans of organized crime who hope to gain assets once held by the state or Communist Party.

                Oct 8, 1996    Crimean Russians held a congress and proclaimed it their legislature. The congress was attended by Russian State Duma Deputy Vladimir Davidenko. The congress also issued a declaration "On the National Unity of the Russian People."

                Oct 10, 1996    Vasily Kiselyov was elected Chairman of the Crimean Supreme Soviet. Observers think his election could complicate relations between Simferopol and Kiev and lead to increased pro-Russian sentiments on the peninsula. He was congratulated on his election to the highest state office in the Autonomous republic of Crimea by Dmitry Stepanyuk, the Ukrainian President's permanent representative in Crimea.

                Jan 15, 1997    Leaders of the Russian community of Crimea held a press conference to draw attention to what they say is a policy of "language aggression" aimed at "driving out the Russian language in Ukraine." Last Fall, the Ukrainian president gave instructions to the government and heads of local administrations to intensify control over the putting into effect of the language policy, to draft a new edition of the law on language, to work out privileges for the publication and circulation of materials in Ukrainian and to issue licenses only to those TV companies which broadcast mostly in Ukrainian. The press conference organizers claimed the president violated the Ukrainian constitution which guarantees the free development, use and protection of Russian and other languages of national minorities. They also sent a message to the Russian government suggesting it "examine the problem of the language rights of Russian population of Ukraine and Crimea, the situation of Russians and Russian Culture in Ukraine and especially in the regions traditionally inhabited by Russians and discuss a possibility of rendering assistance for the purpose of preserving Russian culture, as well as the Russian language and information space."

                Feb 1997    Crimea's mainly pro-Russian parliament sacked speaker Vasily Kiselyov whom deputies accused of being too favorable to Ukraine.

                Feb 23, 1997    Crimean communists attending a meeting in Simferopol have called on authorities to cut off relations with NATO. The Congress of the Russian People called on Russian and Ukrainian leaders to immediately sign a defensive union recognizing Sevastopol as the main base of the Black Sea Fleet.

                Mar 18, 1997    Riot police in Crimea prevented about 1000 protestors from storming the parliament building in Simferopol during a demonstration calling for the return of the peninsula to Russia. Pro-Russian communist groups organized the demonstration which was attended by about 5000 people.

                Mar 20, 1997    An announcement that the U.S. and Ukraine would participate in joint naval exercises this summer brought a protest from Russia. The outcry over the planned exercise was traced to an early scenario drawn up by the Ukraine in which a separatist revolt by and unnamed "ethnically based party" is threatening the integrity of Ukraine. The separatists in the scenario are backed by an "unnamed neighboring country." The unnamed party was interpreted by Moscow to be Crimean Russians and the unnamed neighboring country Russia itself. The U.S. rejected this scenario outright. A previous joint exercise (July 1995) went off without controversy. (Note Protests against the exercises, especially by Russians in the Crimea, occurred on an almost weekly basis until the maneuvers were held in September, and will not be further mentioned unless otherwise noteworthy.)

                Mar 27, 1997    President Kuchma, in a news conference in Moscow, called for a resolution of the Black Sea Fleet issue, and bilateral relations between the two republics. (Xinhua 3/27/97)

                Apr 4, 1997    Shortly after limiting the amount of Russian language programming transmitted to the Crimea, Kiev reduced the amount of Russian-language broadcasting in Crimea to four hours a week. (TASS 4/4/97)

                Apr 9, 1997    The Crimean parliament voted overwhelmingly to oust Prime Minister Arkady Demidenko, the third attempt to oust him since January. Observers said the ouster of Demidenko was based on clan rivalry (the leader of the movement was related to President Kuchma through marriage) rather than pressure to forge closer ties with Moscow or Kiev. According to the constitution, the Ukrainian head of state must approve the resignation of the Crimean government. (Agence France Presse 4/9/97) The head of Russia's upper house of parliament suggested that Ukraine join the planned union of Russia and Belarus, arguing "those Slav states should form the core of integration in the CIS." (NOTE The issue of union with Russia and/or Belarus recurs regularly throughout the period covered by this update, and will not be further mentioned unless otherwise noteworthy." (British Broadcasting Corporation 4/11/97)

                Apr 10, 1997    During Ukrainian hearings on the freedom of the media, the Ukrainian Information Ministry said that the number of Ukrainian-language books published in 1996 was 2.3 times less than the number in 1970, and 1.15 times less than the number in 1990. In addition, ninety percent of the 70 private radio stations in Ukraine broadcast in Russian. The Information Minister used these statistics to decry what he called the "Russification" of Ukraine and called on the parliament to defend the Ukrainian language. He also blamed Ukrainian media's freedom to broadcast in the language of their choice, and the "amorphous-democratic" laws for this decline. (TASS 4/10/97)

                Apr 17, 1997    Russia's upper house of parliament voted to make the contested city of Sevastopol a special international city. The Federation Council insisted that its proposal did not amount to Russian territorial designs on Sevastopol. The Deputy Foreign Minister representing Ukrainian interests in the Black Sea Fleet negotiations rejected the proposal, saying that Sevastopol was unequivocally a part of Ukraine. (Agence France Presse 4/17/97 and TASS 4/22/97)

                Apr 20, 1997    A Russian Federation Council commission dealing with the question of Sevastopol decided that Russia should directly declare its historical rights to the city and declare it an international city under international law, perhaps appealing to the UN. The commission declared the 1954 Supreme Soviet resolution that turned Crimea over to the Ukraine unconstitutional, saying the presidium did not have the authority to do so. (British Broadcasting Corporation 4/22/97)

                May 7, 1997    About 150 activists from pro-Russian public organizations picketed the Sevastopol State TV and Radio Company for two hours to demand a resumption of Russian Public Television [ORT] broadcasts in the city, instead of the Inter channel. The TV company promised to restore the 10-hour ORT broadcasts in the near future. Prior to mid-April, Sevastopol was the only city in Crimea that received ORT instead of Inter. (British Broadcasting Corporation 5/16/97)

                May 21, 1997    Sixty of the 70 deputies of the Crimean parliament passed a resolution to oust Premier Arkadi Demidenko, in the eighth attempt. After the last attempt in March, Ukrainian President Leonid Kuchma vetoed the decision of the Crimean parliament as "contradicting Ukraine's law." (Deutsche Presse-Agentur 5/21/97)

                May 27, 1997    The Russian Prime Minister reacted with concern to a proposed new Ukrainian language law which he said would "limit and force out" the Russian language from intellectual life. He claimed that Russians and Russian-speakers were often denied their rights and were often denied employment or residence permits based on their citizenship. (TASS 5/27/97) Ukrainian Prime Minister Pavel Lasarenko offered to lease a portion of the port of Sevastopol to Russia for 20 years as part of an agreement on the Black Sea fleet. An agreement to that effect was signed the following day. However, most Sevastopol and Crimea residents felt the agreement was not in their advantage, and appealed to the Federation Council and State Duma not to ratify the Black Sea agreement. (Deutsche Presse-Agentur 5/27/97 and TASS 5/28/97 & 5/30/97)

                May 31, 1997    Ukrainian President Leonid Kuchma and his Russian counterpart, Boris Yeltsin, signed a treaty of friendship, cooperation and partnership, which promised that the two countries would respect each other's sovereignty and territorial integrity, not violate the present borders, nor interfere in each other's internal affairs. The treaty marked the first time Russia had formally recognized Ukraine's independence, and was decried by some Russian politicians as a sign of giving up hope of protecting Russians or the Russian language in Ukraine. About 150 Russian protestors demonstrated in Sevastopol over the weekend, saying Yeltsin had betrayed them by accepting Crimea as part of Ukraine. (Xinhua 5/31/97 and The Independent [London] 5/30/97 and Financial Times 6/2/97)

                Jun 3, 1997    Ukrainian President Leonid Kuchma named Anatoli Franchuk - the father of his son-in-law - as new prime minister of the autonomous Crimean Republic, and approved the removal of the outgoing Crimean prime minister, Arkadi Demidenko. (Deutsche Presse-Agentur 6/3/97)

                Sep 19, 1997    The Sevastopol Committee of Veterans of War and the Armed Forces appealed to both chambers of the Russian Parliament, to Moscow Mayor Yuri Luzhkov, to the Citizenship Committee under the President of Russia, to Russia's Foreign Minister and to the OSCE mission in Crimea to study the prospect of granting the people of Sevastopol Russian citizenship. If given Ukrainian passports - which they had not had previously - the residents would not be allowed to work at Russian Black Sea Fleet facilities, and children of Russian seamen would not be allowed to enter Russian naval academies or serve in the Russian Armed Forces. They claimed they were being forcefully assimilated into Ukraine and Ukrainian citizenship, in violation of the Human Rights Charter and the (yet unratified) Treaty of Friendship and Cooperation between Ukraine and Russia. (Soviet Press Digest 9/19/97)

                Oct 7, 1997    Soyuz, a political party founded in Crimea, announced its campaign platform would include the protection of the Russian language and culture, the integration of the Slavonic republics, and the development of regional self-government in Ukraine to counterbalance the unitary principle underlying the state system. The Soyuz congress received congratulatory telegrams from Crimean leaders, as well as Moscow's Mayor Yuriy Luzhkov, and other Russian politicians. (British Broadcasting Corporation 10/9/97)

                Oct 15, 1997    The Crimean parliament voted to make Russian the region's official language in place of Ukrainian. Fifty-six of the parliament's 96 deputies approved the motion and four voted against. The Kurultai faction, which represents ethnic Tartars, boycotted the vote. According to the Ukrainian constitution, Ukrainian is the only official language. The new resolution runs counter to the Ukrainian legislation, under which all official documents should be made in Ukrainian. It is also at variance with the Crimean constitution which says that Russian is both an official language of the republic and a state language, together with the Crimean Tatar and Ukrainian languages. The article of the Crimean constitution dealing with languages was not approved by the Ukrainian parliament. The parliament also passed the law "On timekeeping in the Autonomous Republic of Crimea," which required the peninsula to switch to Moscow time. (Agence France Presse 10/15/97 & TASS 10/16/97 and British Broadcasting Corporation 10/17/97)

                Oct 22, 1997    The Ukrainian Cabinet of Ministers set up a subcommission for issues connected with the stay of the Russian Black Sea Fleet on Ukrainian territory, within the framework of the earlier Ukrainian-Russian agreement on the Fleet. The chairman of Sevastopol city council, Viktor Semenov, became the head of the new structure. (British Broadcasting Corporation 10/25/97)

                Oct 24, 1997    The Sevasopol branch of the Crimean voters' movement held a rally accusing the Ukrainian state of annexing Crimea and seizing Sevastopol. The resolution passed at the rally demanded that the UN, OSCE and Council of Europe "take measures in response to Ukraine's illegal actions," and asked the Russian leadership not to ratify the treaty between Ukraine and Russia on Sevastopol's status. (British Broadcasting Corporation 10/27/97)

                Oct 25, 1997    Ukrainian President Kuchma declared that the Crimea's October 15 law legalizing the third time zone [Moscow time] on the peninsula violated a number of provisions in the Ukrainian constitution, and ordered it suspended. (British Broadcasting Corporation 10/27/97)

                Nov 5, 1997    President Leonid Kuchma said that no forced "Ukrainisation" or violation of rights of ethnic Russians will occur in Ukraine, but reaffirmed that Ukrainian was the republic's only official language and called on citizens to respect it. (TASS 11/5/97)

                Nov 11, 1997    Eighteen parties, movements and organizations - including the People's Democratic Party, the Agrarian Party of Ukraine and the Ukrainian People's Movement - joined to create a bloc called For the Dignified Life and the Future of Sevastopol Residents. They hoped the bloc would "ensure, through representatives of the bloc in all branches of power, gradual and justified economic reforms together with effective social protection measures for Sevastopol residents; and to ensure the full implementation of Russian-Ukrainian agreements concerning Sevastopol." (British Broadcasting Corporation 11/13/97)

                Nov 13, 1997    At the Ukrainian Supreme Council session, people's deputies debated two alternative draft laws on the Crimean Supreme Council, one submitted by Ukrainian President Leonid Kuchma and the other by a group of Ukrainian deputies. The draft law submitted by the Ukrainian president, envisaged proportional, single-seat territorial district elections of deputies to the Ukrainian parliament, with special ethnic constituencies for representatives of the Crimean Tatar people and other deported ethnic groups and minorities living in Crimea.. The initiators of the alternative bill opposed this because they believed this would introduce national quotas for an indefinite period. Instead, they proposed that the elections to the Crimean Supreme Council be conducted on the basis of universal, equal and direct electoral rights in secret ballots under a mixed (majority and proportional) electoral system. (British Broadcasting Corporation 11/15/97)

                Nov 30, 1997    About 250 people from the Sevastopol branch of the all-Crimean movement of voters for the Republic of Crimea held a rally in Sevastopol to protest what they considered to be the fraudulent 1991 referendum on Ukrainian independence, and their dissatisfaction with a Sevastopol city council decision not to take part in Crimean parliamentary elections. (British Broadcasting Corporation 12/3/97)

                Dec 2, 1997    About 400 people mounted three picket lines by the Sevastopol city council to accuse council members of being "traitors" and to demand the abolition of their decision to keep Sevastopol out of the Crimean parliamentary election. Within half an hour, a group of disabled employees of the Sevastopol marine works arrived at the picket line demanding the timely payment of disability benefit. They were later joined by about 300 members of the union committee of the Sevastopol city water treatment plant protesting a four-month delay in wage payments. (British Broadcasting Corporation 12/4/97)

                Dec 3, 1997    A spokesman for the Ukrainian President warned against "playing the Crimean card" in the upcoming Ukrainian parliamentary elections. Crimean elections had been delayed pending the adoption of the law "On the Supreme Council of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea" by the Ukrainian parliament. The Ukrainian government felt the new law was necessary because the old law was unconstitutional; those who tried to delay the new law - which had been drawn up by the Ukrainian president - would risk postponing the Crimean elections. (British Broadcasting Corporation 12/5/97) About 500 people representing the People's Opposition Union of Crimea, the Union of Soviet Officers, and the Crimean Republican Committee of the Communist Party of Ukraine picketed the Crimean parliament building, demanding that Crimean elections be held on 29th March 1998 [when parliamentary elections were to be held in Ukraine] and that a Crimean electoral commission be set up. The protesters threatened to block the Crimean parliament if their demands had not been met by December 10th. The leader of the Crimean Republican Committee of the Communist Party of Ukraine, Leonid Hrach, noted that under the Ukrainian constitution election to bodies of power, whatever the level, should take place on the same day, and accused Crimean legislators of trying to extend their terms by debating the issue of the election date. (British Broadcasting Corporation12/5/97)

                Dec 10, 1997    Ukraine's Supreme Council approved in the first reading a draft law "On the election of people's deputies to the Supreme Council of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea." Under the law, elections were to be held in Crimea on the basis of a mixed (majority and proportional) electoral system. A total of 100 deputies were to be elected; 50 deputies from single-seat constituencies on the basis of a relative majority, and 50 deputies from party lists submitted by Crimean regional organizations on the basis of proportional representation. The law stipulated that the next election to the Crimean parliament would take place on the last Sunday of March of the parliament's fourth year in office. Speaking at the Ukrainian parliament session, Crimean Supreme Council Chairman Anatoliy Hrytsenko voiced his disagreement with a number of provisions. He felt all the Crimean parliament deputies should work on a permanent basis and that the Crimean Supreme Council should have had the right to coordinate the appointment of heads of power-wielding structures in Crimea, who are appointed by the Ukrainian president. The chairman also wanted to give the Council the power to adopt laws. (British Broadcasting Corporation 12/22/97) The Ukrainian Supreme Council approved a resolution recommending that the Crimean Supreme Council submit to the Ukrainian parliament before the end of December a draft Crimean constitution in the form of an integral document complying with the Ukrainian constitution. The Ukrainian government maintained that the Crimean constitution contained provisions contradicting the Ukrainian constitution, including regulations and provisions regarding the status of the state languages in Crimea, Crimean citizenship, relations between the Crimean budget and the center, and the authority of the Crimean Supreme Council to suspend the effect of the regulations issued by the Ukrainian executive on Crimean territory. (British Broadcasting Corporation 12/12/97)

                Dec 11, 1997    By this date, almost a quarter of a million Tatars who had been deported from Crimea by Stalin had returned. Out of this number, practically 147,000 returned before November 13, 1991, and by law, were citizens of Ukraine, while the remainder had to be naturalized.. Half of the returnees are over the age of 18, i.e., they are of voting age, but many cannot vote because they are considered foreigners. Only 74 percent of the Crimean Tatars have applied for Ukrainian citizenship, and only 45 percent of the Tatars residing in Crimea had the right to participate in elections. (Soviet Press Digest 12/11/97)
                Dec 22, 1997    Ukraine's parliament refused to review the 1989 law on languages, which declared Ukrainian the country's state language, even though the parliamentary speaker said Ukraine should pay equal attention to Ukrainian, Russian and other languages. Parliament maintained that reducing Russian language classes in Ukrainian schools to optional lessons was a violation of this law. (TASS 12/22/97)

                Jan 17, 1998    The Sevastopol branch of the Crimean Voters' Movement for a Crimean republic held a rally to mark the seventh anniversary of the re-creation of the Crimean republic. Among their demands were that Russia' s Federation Council not ratify the Treaty of Friendship, Partnership, and Cooperation between Ukraine and Russia. Furthermore, they wanted the Crimean parliament to draw up a constitution for Crimea and be able to submit it to popular approval through referenda. They also called for a referendum on the status of Crimea. In addition, they protested for restoration of the right of Sevastopol citizens to take part in the election of Crimean Supreme Council deputies and the implementation of the Crimean parliament's resolutions "On time zones" and "On the functioning of the Russian language." Approximately 200 people attended the rally. (British Broadcasting Corporation 1/20/98)

                Jan 27, 1998    The government of Ukraine visited Crimea, noting that the economy had not shown much improvement. Industrial production in the region remained one of the highest in Ukraine, but agriculture was in crisis, investment was decreasing, and unemployment and wage arrears rose in 1997. (TASS 1/27/98)

                Jan 28, 1998    Ukrainian President Leonid Kuchma refused to sign the law "On the Supreme Council of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea," stating that the document contained many provisions that did not conform to the constitution and the laws of Ukraine. Among other problems, Kuchma cited the use of the majority/proportional-representation parliamentary election system envisaged by the law, which he felt was premature and likely to lead to the violation of the fundamental principles of civic rights and freedoms. There were also provisions which restricted the right of Ukrainian citizens to stand for public office and local self-government positions in Crimea, and a five-year residence term as a prerequisite for election to the Crimean parliament, which Kuchma felt should not apply to Crimean Tatars and representatives of other deported nations. (British Broadcasting Corporation 1/29/98)

                Feb 1, 1998    Ukrainian President Leonid Kuchma signed a decree on control over the local authorities in Yalta, which appointed an acting head of the city's administration until a new mayor could be elected. Ten city councilmen, who felt Kuchma had overstepped his authority, staged a sit-in at the city hall the following day in protest, while 300 people gathered outside city hall to keep the police out. The Crimean Council appealed to Ukraine's Constitutional Court to decide the legality of the matter on February 5. (British Broadcasting Corporation 2/2/98 & 2/6/98 and Deutsche Presse-Agentur 2/3/98)

                Feb 4, 1998    The Crimean parliament voted overwhelmingly to put a proposed referendum on the peninsula on its agenda. The referendum was to include questions of whether inhabitants would like to return to Russian jurisdiction, to restore the provisions of the less restrictive 1992 Crimean constitution, and to adopt Russian as the area's official language. The referendum decision was prompted in part by the events in Yalta. (Deutsche Presse-Agentur 2/4/98)

                Feb 24, 1998    Surveys conducted by the Kiev Center of Political Research and Conflict Resolution revealed that 31% of all inhabitants of Ukraine considered themselves to some extent Russian including 11.5% who claimed to be Russian; 5% more Russian than Ukrainian, and 14.5% equally Russian and Ukrainian. The surveys also indicated that 55% of all inhabitants of Ukraine preferred Russian as their everyday language. (What The Papers Say 2/24/98) The parliament of the Crimean peninsula agreed to hold its elections simultaneously with the elections of the Ukrainian parliament on March 29, ending a week-long tug-of-war between the peninsula and central power in Kiev. President Kuchma had threatened to call a state of emergency if the parliament did not agree to simultaneous elections. In addition, on February 22, the Ukrainian Justice Ministry had declared that the September election date proposed by the Crimean parliament would illegally extend the rule of the current parliament past its maximum four years. (Deutsche Presse-Agentur 2/24/98 and British Broadcasting Corporation 2/24/98)

                Feb 24, 1998    The Crimean Tatar People's Majlis threatened to organize protests and possibly to disrupt the Crimean parliamentary election because they feared that the new majority voting system in Crimea would deprive Crimean Tatars of representation in the new Crimean parliament. According to the Majlis leader, 167,485 of the Crimean Tatars then resident in Crimea were over 18, but only about 97,000 (58 per cent) were Ukrainian citizens. Others, mostly those who arrived after 1st January 1992, had not yet been granted Ukrainian citizenship. (British Broadcasting Corporation 2/25/98) Russian newspapers were blocked at the Ukraine border for several weeks. Ukrainian officials maintained that the newspapers had not paid their customs duties, but the newspapers claimed they were being asked to pay a surcharge for the circulation of Russian material in Ukraine, which they refused. On the eve of the parliamentary elections, many, especially in the Russian media, saw the move as political. (Soviet Press Digest 3/12/98)

                Mar 5, 1998    According to a poll by the Democratic Initiatives fund and Sotsis-Gallup, approximately 57 percent of voters would back a candidate, party, or bloc for the Ukrainian parliament if they advocated Ukraine's admission to the Russia-Byelorussia Union. The poll, which included 1,800 respondents from various segments of population and various regions, also found that 44 percent of respondents favored granting the Russian language a status as the second state language. (TASS 3/5/98)

                Mar 6, 1998    Ukrainian customs seized all periodicals arriving in the Crimean peninsula from Russia, allegedly because the Ukrposhta agency, directly responsible for deliveries, had not settled its debts with the Ukrainian customs. Crimea's largest newspaper, however, described the arrest of Russian periodicals as "a political action seeking to torpedo the efforts of President Leonid Kuchma of Ukraine to establish friendly relations with Russia." (British Broadcasting Corporation 3/7/98)

                Mar 22, 1998    Three people were hurt in an explosion at the office of the Communist Party and the Russian Society of Crimea in Yevpatoriya on Crimea's west coast. The victims accused the Yevpatoriya mayor, Andriy Danylenko, of ordering the attack. A series of political figures in Crimea had been attacked over the course of the previous months; this attack may or may not have been targetting Russians. (British Broadcasting Corporation 3/24/98)

                Mar 25, 1998    The Crimean police chief said large numbers of Ukrainian interior troops would be sent to Crimea to maintain order during the March 29 parliamentary elections. The day before in Simferopol, ethnic Tatars wounded 19 police during a rally for parliamentary electoral rights for all repatriates regardless of their citizenship. (TASS 3/25/98)

                Mar 27, 1998    The Ukrainian Constitutional Court ruled that the Crimean "Law on Calculating Time," which declared Crimea would use the same time zone as Moscow, was in violation of the Ukrainian Constitution, and that the Crimean parliament did not have the authority to make law, only decrees. (British Broadcasting Corporation 3/30/98)

                Mar 29, 1998    In Ukrainian elections, the Communists won 84 of 225 seats voted under the party list system in the 450-seat parliament. The nationalist Rukh Party won 32 seats, the Green Party -- 19, the Peoples' Democratic Party -- 17 seats, Gromada association -- 16 and the Progressive Socialist Party and the Social Democratic Party (United) -- 14 seats each, under the party list system. The Communists won another 39 seats in the first-past-the-post constituencies, which made them the biggest single party faction with an aggregate of 123 seats. Turnout reached 70% in some places, and the Crimean Tatars continued to protest their relative lack of representation up to the day of the election. In Crimea, thirty-six of the deputies elected to the Crimean parliament represented the Communist Party of Ukraine, five the Agrarian Party of Ukraine, and four seats each went to representatives of the People's Democratic Party and the Union Party. The Party of Economic Revival won two seats and the Socialist Party of Ukraine - one seat. (TASS 4/1/98 and British Broadcasting Corporation 3/30/98 & 4/1/98)

                May 19, 1998    The Crimean Supreme Council parliament set the Crimean parliament election for the last Sunday of September in 1998. It also approved a constitutional submission on whether the Ukrainian Supreme Council's resolution of 12th February 1998 "On the Crimean Supreme Council election" and the law of Ukraine "On the election of Crimean Supreme Council deputies" complied with the Ukrainian constitution. The Council acted in part because they felt they had no current legal regulations to guide Crimean elections. (British Broadcasting Corporation 2/19/98)

                May 27, 1998    A coalition government of the Crimean autonomy was formed, consisting predominantly of representatives of the Communist Party, the People's Democratic Party of Ukraine (NDPU) and the "Soyuz" (union) Party. (TASS 5/27/98)

                Jun 15, 1998    Information Minister Kulik admitted that the Ukrainian government could not use legal means or financial means to prohibit information companies from using other languages to transmit information in Ukraine, making it impossible to stop broadcasts in the Russian language. (British Broadcasting Corporation 6/19/98)

                Aug 4, 1998    Representatives from regional branches of Ukraine's parties and public organizations in the Autonomous Republic of Crimea signed a declaration on concord for the sake of Crimea's revival in Sevastopol. They wanted to counteract what they called the "the protracted and all-embracing economic and spiritual crisis in Ukraine," and emphasized the need for concord in the community. They also declared their readiness to cooperate with the Supreme Council [parliament] and Council of Ministers of the autonomy [Crimea] on issues that directly concern the socioeconomic condition and wellbeing of citizens. The 21 representatives of political parties and community organizations who signed the declaration agreed to the creation of a coordinating council that will meet at least once a month. (British Broadcasting Corporation 8/7/98)

                Aug 26, 1998    Moscow Mayor Yuri Luzhkov opened a Russian school in Sevastopol, declaring it would strengthen the belief that "Sevastopol will return to the lap of Russia." The new school was meant for the children of the servicemen of the Russian Black Sea fleet, and had been built with Russian funds, as had the repair of ships and the construction of housing for the seamen. Luzhkov's comments, including remarks about Sevastopol being a Russian city and the "Ukrainization" of the city, later caused official criticism from Ukraine. (TASS 8/26/98 and British Broadcasting Corporation 8/30/98)

                Sep 16, 1998    The Crimean parliament approved an agreement between Crimea and Moscow on cooperation in the trade, economic, scientific, technical, humanitarian and cultural fields. The agreement was supported by 85 of the 90 Crimean parliament deputies who attended the session, while ten deputies did not attend. (British Broadcasting Corporation 9/17/98)

                Sep 22, 1998    At a meeting with the chairman of the Ukrainian Supreme Council, Crimean Supreme Council chairman Leonid Hrach stressed that the Crimean Council of Ministers did not have power to rule either through the legislation of Ukraine or its constitution. He added that Crimea would never agree to be made simply into a Regional state administration. Hrach felt the Crimean parliament needed the right to conclude agreements with local self- government bodies on socioeconomic issues and cultural development of Crimean regions, as well as to make provision for the "mutual delegation of individual powers by parliament and local councils." (British Broadcasting Corporation 9/23/98)

                Oct 18, 1998    The National Movement of the Crimean Tatars held a meeting of some 200 delegates from the Crimea, other Ukrainian regions, Russia and the Central Asia. They called on Ukraine to voluntarily disavow the 1954 act on the transfer of the Crimea to Ukraine and to settle relations with the Crimean Autonomous Republic on the basis of an agreement with Russia, Simferopol, and commissioners of the Crimean Tatars. The National Movement of the Crimean Tatars, which proclaimed itself "a special political self-organization of the people," seeks, among other things, the restoration of statehood in the Crimea. (TASS 10/18/98)

                Oct 21, 1998    The parliament of the Crimea approved a new version of the republic's constitution, the fifth proposal since Crimea's 1992 independence from Ukraine. In contrast to some earlier drafts, the new version of the main law did not call for attributes of statehood such as separate citizenship or a separate legal system. According to newspaper accounts, Crimean separatism lost its impetus after the division of the Black Sea Fleet. The Russian Duma later condemned the new constitution, which declared Ukrainian to be the sole official language of the Crimea, as being discriminatory to the Russian population. The Ukrainian foreign ministry denied the claims. (Deutsche Presse-Agentur 10/21/98 and British Broadcasting Corporation 10/26/98 & 10/28/98)

                Nov 7, 1998    As part of a rally marking the 81st anniversary of the October Revolution, Leonid Hrach proposed to hold a referendum during Ukrainian elections on October 29th, 1999, on giving Russian the status of a second state language in Ukraine. (British Broadcasting Corporation 11/9/98)

                Nov 17, 1998    Simferopol University released a poll showed that 92 percent of graduates of Crimean schools and higher educational establishments favored granting Russian official status on the peninsula. According to the poll results, 95 percent of local Ukrainians, 80 percent of Crimean Tatars, 100 percent of Russians and 93 percent of people of other ethnicities spoke Russian. Some 85 percent of the respondents wanted their children to be taught in Russian. When asked about the naturalization preference, 27 percent of the respondents chose the citizenship of Ukraine, 25 percent favored the citizenship of Russia, 21 percent wanted that of the former Soviet Union and 10 percent that of the United States. (TASS 11/17/98)

                Nov 24, 1998    Crimean Tatars appealed to President Kuchma and the parliament not to examine the Crimean constitution until the adoption of legislative and regulative acts on the renewal of Crimean Tatar rights in Ukraine. Tatars believed that adoption of the constitution of Crimean autonomy without the consideration of other issues would be detrimental to Ukraine's development and could lead to consolidation of antigovernment forces in Crimea. (British Broadcasting Corporation 11/28/98)

                Nov 30, 1998    The Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe's monitoring committee threatened to strip the Ukrainian delegation of its credentials if it did not act more swiftly to build a law-governed state, to transfer the penitentiary system from the Interior Ministry to the Justice Ministry, and to pass laws improving the work of local bodies of power, ending the death penalty, ensuring the rights of Crimean Tatars, and adopting the constitution of Crimea. (TASS 11/30/98)

                Dec 15, 1998    The Ukrainian parliament did not approve the Constitution of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea (ARC), as deputies from the Gromada and People's Democrats parties and the Rukh nationalist movement frustrated the voting by hurling insults at Premier Hrach. Rukh representatives claimed that Crimea had been granted too many rights. The Constitution, with a few revisions, was eventually approved on Dec. 23, 1998, with a vote of 230 to 67 with 3 abstentions. The Constitution specified that the ARC was an inalienable part of Ukraine, whose powers were defined by the Ukrainian constitution and Ukrainian laws as well as by the ARC constitution. The Constitutional Court of Ukraine was to resolve issues of constitutionality and whether ARC laws were consistent with the Ukrainian constitution. Laws guaranteed the development and protection of the Ukrainian language, as well as Russian, Crimean Tatar and other nationalities, and the right of individuals to study in their native languages. Official documents were to be issued in Ukrainian and Russian, and Crimean Tatar upon request. The Constitution went into effect January 12, 1999. (TASS 12/15/98 and Deutsche Presse-Agentur 12/23/98 and British Broadcasting Corporation 12/26/98)

                Jul 17, 1999    In a press conference, President Leonid Kuchma said Ukraine should have only Ukrainian as its state language, but that the Russian language was not oppressed in the Republic. "I am categorically opposed to pressing Russian or Ukrainian. But people will understand that they live in Ukraine and must know the Ukrainian language," he said. (TASS 7/17/99)

                Aug 30, 1999    On live Ukrainian television, President Leonid Kuchma again advocated the importance of the state Ukrainian language as well as Russian. Kuchma advocated compulsory Ukrainian lessons in Russian schools, as well as the teaching of Russian and other foreign languages for Ukrainian schools. Kuchma also said that he opposed autonomy for the Crimean Tatars within Crimea, which he said would affect the balance between ethnic groups in the area. The Tatars were assumed to be the dominant ethnic group within the Crimea after about 270,000 Crimean Tatars had returned to Ukraine in the course of a few years. (British Broadcasting Corporation 8/31/99 & 9/1/99) Criminal proceedings began against some members of the National Bolshevist Party who ascended the spire of the Sailors' Club of the Russian Black Sea Fleet in Sevastopol on August 24th (Ukraine's Independence Day) in protest against the transfer of Sevastopol to Ukraine. They were charged with aggravated hooliganism and the seizure of club premises after the Sevastopol militia said that leaflets and anti-Ukrainian literature had been confiscated from National Bolshevist Party members in Sevastopol in the course of search-and-prevention operations. (British Broadcasting Corporation 9/1/99)

                Sep 15, 1999    Ukrainian television reported on ongoing ethnic tensions in the Crimea, including a rise in arrests related to the smuggling of provocative literature, arms, and ammunition to the peninsula. The Crimean prime minister was quoted as saying that interethnic relations were the number one issue in the Crimea, but most of the article focused on tensions with the Tatar community, not Russians. (British Broadcasting Corporation 9/16/99) During a visit to Ukraine, OSCE Commissioner for national minorities, Max van der Stoel, said that he felt that the Russian minority in Ukraine, in particular in Crimea, encountered no problems in daily life. (British Broadcasting Corporation 9/16/99)

                Nov 7, 1999    Crimean President Leonid Hrach publicly accused Crimean prime minister, Serhiy Kunitsyn, and the representative of the Ukrainian president in the Autonomous Republic of Crimea, Anatoliy Korniychuk, of trying to start a coup d'etat. The two subsequently threatened to sue Hrach for libel, who countered by demanding that they be fired. The crisis eventually led to a series of dismissals during questionable meetings of parliament which were held while the sessions were officially closed. (British Broadcasting Corporation 11/17/99 & 12/15/99)

                Dec 10, 1999    A group of Tatars seized the administrative offices in Bakhchysaray and demanded that their representative be appointed head of the district. Members of the Supreme Council of the Crimea and activists of the Russian community held a counter-demon

                1. Readmikenow profile image95
                  Readmikenowposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                  I applaud your ability to cut and paste.

                  Why have you not provided a link to your source?

                  I also so wonder exactly what is your point in all of this.

                  Crimea has a political history.

                  1. Ken Burgess profile image71
                    Ken Burgessposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                    The post had a good chunk at the end cut off it.

                    The point was, that the Crimea issue is not close to being what is claimed in Western media.

                    Crimea has, since it was initially "given" to Ukraine, rebelled against being part of Ukraine.  It has fought for either independence and autonomy from Ukraine, or to rejoin with Russia, throughout its history with Ukraine.

                    The issue of Crimea's secession is at the heart of what this war is about.

                    That was the point of the post, to bring forth some historical context.

          3. Readmikenow profile image95
            Readmikenowposted 2 years agoin reply to this

            "All speak good Russian, for most this being their native language."

            The is true. All countries that were part of the former Soviet Union speak Russian.  It was the one language that was permitted. When I was in Ukraine many years ago visiting relatives, I spoke Ukrainian in public.  A policeman came over and scolded me. My uncle had to pay a "fine" to the police officer, so I didn't go to jail.  It is like this in all countries in the former Soviet Union. There were punishments for not speaking Russian. So, Ukrainians speaking Russian should be of no surprise. I know some older Ukrainians who don't know how to speak Ukrainian because of the country's history.

            Since Ukraine got its independence in 1991, the Ukrainian language has been returning.  Towns with Russian names have been returned to Ukrainian names, including the town where my relatives live. Even the Russian name for Keiv has been changed to the Ukrainian name of Kyiv.  The teaching of the Ukrainian language is increasing in the schools as teaching of Russian is decreasing.  This was quite a popular topic for discussion in Ukraine before the war.

            The point is that Russia has forced its language and culture on others.  Many do not speak Russian because of a desire to speak the language but because of necessity.

      2. Sharlee01 profile image84
        Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this

        It's called diplomacy, the job of the UN, and NATO. It is called pushback with hard sanctions, and the threat of a war that Russia could not even conceive of winning. It saying to Ukraine that no you will not become a part of NATO until you are thought not to be corrupt.  Russia was not being aggressive until Ukraine started making waves with Biden about becoming a NATO nation.  Biden for a time was pushing for Ukraine to become part of NATO, then he cooled when he saw what a stir he had caused. He has a propensity for saying just about the worst thing one could imagine. In my view. And No I am not saying Putin should be left to fulfill his ambitions. He did not go forward until Ukraine seemed to be close to becoming a NATO nation. Via Biden's support. Our presidents hold power, and Russia certainly could have taken Biden's support for a sure thing.

        No, the world should have warned of the consequences of a true war that all would have skin in. They would have folded, period.

        1. Fayetteville Faye profile image60
          Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this

          Finland and Sweden are joining NATO also. Looks like a done deal for the most part. So how is this any different? Is Putin's ego going to be yet again bruised and he marches over the border. The eu's largest border with Russia.   Should those two Nations have been dissuaded to join? What if he needs to chase the Nazis out of those countries? I just don't see the distinction here

          1. Sharlee01 profile image84
            Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this

            Social Democratic parties currently lead both the Finnish and Swedish governments. I would think they will fit into NATO like a well-fitted glove. Both have good militaries, as a state of art weapons. Although the rate is high for corruption.  Finland and Sweden have been consistently ranked at the top of the Corruption Perceptions Index and are perceived to be very corrupt ...

            .  This is the main reason NATO did not admit Ukraine. The new president ran on cleaning up corruption, and NATO was considering admitting them, but nothing was even close to final.

            I can't answer what would happen if Putin decides to go into these two counties. We hopefully will have a new administration that may handle a situation differently. This would be my hope. I would certainly hope we have once again learned from our mistakes.  Hey, Ukraine could set precedent and the US would continue to fight another proxy war, and shed the blood of others over Americans once again.

            I certainly would be sickened if this became the norm for NATO and the US. However, I would assume it would depend on who was the
            president.

            1. tsmog profile image86
              tsmogposted 2 years agoin reply to this

              I would take a peek at Transparency International website to discover those ranked at the top of the Corruption Perception index is least corrupt. There scale is 100 is very clean and 0 is highly corrupt. Sweden's  score is at 85 ranked 4 and Finland's score is 88 ranked 1. For a reference the US score is 67 ranked 27.

              https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2021

              1. Sharlee01 profile image84
                Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this

                Thank you ! I stand corrected. Your resource is a good one. Oh My,  the US does not rate well.

                1. tsmog profile image86
                  tsmogposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                  Your welcome! I have a soft spot for Sweden as a very close friend lives there and I have studied up on Sweden for awhile now. Interesting reading the history farther back than Vikings. If I won the lottery I would think long and hard about moving there.

                  I poked about on the website not finding the criteria they use for their assessment and am curious as to what that is. I looked into corruption for our individual states seeing several websites, yet older contributions,  using convictions for it. I don't see how that can be used with places like North Korea, Afghanistan, and etc.

        2. Readmikenow profile image95
          Readmikenowposted 2 years agoin reply to this

          "It saying to Ukraine that no you will not become a part of NATO until you are thought not to be corrupt."

          When my fellow American citizens say such things about Ukraine, I have to laugh and point to the American government.  Talk about a poster child for corruption.  The United States is in no position to lecture any nation about corruption unless they hold themselves up as an example of it.  Talk about hypocritical.

          1. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
            Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

            What is your point here? Sharlee provided facts of the matter and you say they are not?
            To what end?
            To justify the horrors of continuing war?

            Where are the Flower Children when you need them? Just because our men are not fighting for Ukraine they stay silent? Well, if they do not speak up now, OUR military will be boots on the ground, along with OUR aircraft and tanks. Heaven help us if we drop the bomb and create a big black hole where Russia used to be.

            Make Love, not War.

          2. Sharlee01 profile image84
            Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this

            I think you may have misunderstood my comment. I felt the US and NATO were toying for many years with Ukraine in regard to accepting them into NATO. I feel Ukraine has been used as a tool to start a proxy war. Biden and NATO began spreading the word that they were considering finally admitting Ukraine into NATO. I feel they did this precisely to poke at Putin, and Putin did become aggressive when he heard these rumors. They tweaked his nose purposely in my view.

            I can more than agree the US is corrupt and has been for a very
            long time. This proxy war is just one of the worse examples of how vile they can be. 

            In my view, this bunch sought to destroy Putin at the people of Ukraine's expense. I feel this was s a very orchestrated war.

            Are you offended by my thoughts on the war?  I think all of us are at odds about what actually caused this war, and could it have truly been avoided if NATO and the US? My point is there was little to no diplomacy in regards to sit-downs, and sanctions were not harsh enough.  So, did NATO and the US really want to avoid the war?

  3. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
    Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago
    1. Readmikenow profile image95
      Readmikenowposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      Most of the world has been award of this since 2014.

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
        Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

        Point: Crimea was annexed when Obama was in office.  Many details "most of the world" has forgotten or never realized. History tends to repeat itself. We should always reread/educate ourselves about historical events to gain new perspectives and insights.

  4. Readmikenow profile image95
    Readmikenowposted 2 years ago

    How do you tell someone on a thread here at Hubpages that it appears they have neither the appropriate level of knowledge or intellectual skills necessary to engage in an insightful and thought-provoking discussion and NOT be banned?

    This has always been a dilemma for me.

    Any suggestions?

    1. GA Anderson profile image84
      GA Andersonposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      Yes. If you can't engage on a level you want, then don't engage. Easy-peasy.

      GA

    2. Sharlee01 profile image84
      Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this

      Maybe just say --- "Let me share some of my research or my personal knowledge with you".

      It's always positive, in my view, to have another share personal knowledge.

    3. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
      Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      How do you remind someone that human nature is predictable.
      Do YOU want a big black hole where Russia used to be?

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
        Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

        I see you think I have "neither the appropriate level of knowledge or intellectual skills necessary to engage in an insightful and thought-provoking discussion."

        Good to know.
        Do I stop communicating here on threads at HubPages to avoid irritating the easily irritated?

        1. Readmikenow profile image95
          Readmikenowposted 2 years agoin reply to this

          No person was mentioned in my comment.

          It was actually a rhetorical question.

          Why would anyone think such a statement is about them?

          1. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
            Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

            It seemed to be.

            1. Sharlee01 profile image84
              Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this

              Kathryn, I took his comment a bit differently. I think Mike is frustrated with many of our comments here. To include mine. I have thought about his comment, and I can honestly say I have come to think, Mike is coming from a much different place than any of us are. He has loved ones that are in Ukraine, and he is very much more aware than we are in regard to Ukraine's history. I think he is very much going through a very hard time emotionally now, he is just emotionally involved, and it must be hard for him to see some of our posts.

              1. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
                Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                I see. Thank You.
                Although I mentioned Flower Children and the protesting of war in general. A reference to the Viet Nam era. Maybe very much different. neutral

                Nevertheless, we did nothing for Viet Nam. How many of our soldiers suffered on the battlefield and ended up in misery when back home in the states? So many soldiers and military men and women suffer to this day due to war in general. At least now there is no draft. At least now, men sign up for their own reasons under their own volition.

                My question as an American citizen: At this point, can we help Ukraine without hurting ourselves?

                1. Sharlee01 profile image84
                  Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this

                  We can help with aid and weapons.  I just have the sad feeling if we had been stronger before Putin moved in, could have this war been avoided. I hate to say this, but I do believe that NATO and the US threatened to go to war with Putin if he did not back away from Ukraine  They used many excuses, but ultimately that very threat could have been made.

                  I just feel more should have been done before Putin moved into Ukraine.

                  1. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
                    Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                    "... NATO and the US threatened to go to war with Putin, if he did not back away from Ukraine ... They used many excuses," ( ... like what do you mean? for what?)

                    ... but, ultimately that very threat could have been made."

                    However, that threat was not delivered to Russia.

                    Also, we could have sent the anti-attack defense system, which had been promised by the military/(Biden), to Poland.

                    But we did not. We were ready to send them to Poland, but Biden said, "No!"

                    How come?

                2. Ken Burgess profile image71
                  Ken Burgessposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                  No we cannot.
                  We have given what?
                  100 billion?
                  150 billion?

                  Do you know why your groceries are doubling in price?

                  Do you know why you will be (or already are) paying five dollars a gallon for gas?

                  Because our government funds these wars.

                  Because Congress spends money that they don't have. 

                  They spend money, money that doesn't exist, so they create more debt which devalues the dollar as they create that money to spend.

                  The dollar then is worth less, so everything you buy costs more.

                  But your pension doesn't increase.

                  Your salary doesn't increase by 27% but your grocery bill does.

                  This is your Biden policies and Biden Democracy building at work.

                  And when you find yourself struggling to get by you can thank him for it.

        2. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
          Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years agoin reply to this

          Maybe because I acknowledge that I am one of those who actually does not have the appropriate level of knowledge or the intellectual skills to carry on as I do. However, I am searching for answers and I am a sincere seeker of the truth. I prod to see what others think. I also act as comic relief. If I  seem narcissistic in this response to your comment, oh well. I am not really ...  just curious. Sometimes answers come from the place of a 
          know-it-all all. I am looking for the big picture.

    4. lobobrandon profile image77
      lobobrandonposted 24 months agoin reply to this

      Well, I tried informing you about a topic you knew nothing about: climate change and got banned, so sorry cannot help you there. Interesting to see that you are pointing out to people who shared the same talking points as you all these years that they are illogical. If it were not for the sad situation I would be quite amused.

  5. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
    Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago

    Actually, I understand nothing. I just wish there could be an easy end/solution to their conflict.

    Guess not.

    Contemporary Ukraine: Dynamics of Post-Soviet Transformation
    https://books.google.com/books?id=tedMM … mp;f=false

  6. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
    Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago

    CV ed from elsewhere.

    "I have ties to Ukraine, but I am an American and former soldier. I don't think the United States should get involved unless it directly impacts our country. War is a horrible thing. It would hurt me deeply to think of our soldiers going over there to fight. Every possible option must first be exhausted.

    I do worry, because if there is not resistance to Russia now, and they do take over the Ukraine, what's next?  I don't think they will stop. To not make a stand now could have very serious consequences in the future. I will tell you once Russia starts, they won't stop."

    You were right, Readmikenow!
    Biden was not strong at the appropriate moment.

  7. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
    Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago

    Readmikenow: "I wonder how long Russia can suffer this number of war dead and continue to fight the war."

    This is good wondering.

    Furthermore, I heard that Russian citizens are protesting against the war and Russian soldiers in Ukraine are putting up white flags and running the opposite direction.

    It seemed Ukraine didn't have a chance ... but maybe it does.
    and there is the tragedy: if, in the end, it looses to Russia.

  8. emge profile image79
    emgeposted 2 years ago

    I think we are wasting time discussing alleged 'atrocities' of Russia. Bigger issues are involved as the world is on the threshold of a nuclear war  and the culprit is Joe Biden. Some economists have commented that he has signed the death warrant of America by his foolishness. He has also  burdened the American people with a unrequired financial burden. Russia will not admit defeat and Biden is sole responsible for destruction of Ukraine and later America.

    1. Fayetteville Faye profile image60
      Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      And what is it that you believe President Biden could have done to prevent Putin's move into ukraine? Was an American president supposed to tell a sovereign Nation just to roll over and let Putin take what he wants? Would you want your nation to be on the receiving end of that?

      1. Ken Burgess profile image71
        Ken Burgessposted 2 years agoin reply to this

        You like to ignore the timeline, no matter how many times I provide it.

        Gotta hand it to you, you stick to the narrative right or wrong.

        Crimea seceded from Ukraine, Russia supported that, at a time when Ukraine was in turmoil and had no elected government in place.  The time was 2014.  Today is 2022.

        In 2021 Zelensky began his "world tour" telling anyone who would listen he planned on taking Crimea back by force.

        Russia of course cannot accept this, because Crimea has been for years now, part of Russia.  Because the people who live in Crimea are Russian.  Because Russia has strategic military bases in Crimea, etc.

        Zelensky more than anyone, started this war, with Biden right behind him supporting him for this war every step of the way.

        By supporting Zelensky and his no compromise position (which Biden does) the Biden Administration is determined to escalate this war.

        https://apnews.com/article/europe-ukrai … 10882bf952

        https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/04/29/ru … n-endgame/

        https://www.arabnews.com/node/2127656/world

        The alternative to this war that will make millions suffer and die?

        Letting Russia keep the Russian populated, Russian speaking, Crimean state that had seceded and been part of Russia for six straight years without any war being fought over it, until now.

        Negotiating the Donbas region skirmish to an acceptable resolution or armistice and keeping the world at peace.

        That was the alternative, a wise leader would have chosen it.

        Biden is not a wise leader, he is leading the world into untold horrors, these are the actions of a psychopath, or group of power hungry psychopaths, that currently are making the decisions in DC.

        What will befall Ukraine, Russia, and who knows how many more countries before this is done will be worse than the devastation and ruination brought to Syria, Libya, Iraq, etc.

        There are only two types of people that think war was the better route, the morally bankrupt psychopaths that couldn't care less about human suffering; and people who have not seen a war-torn country, who live in the safety and security, the isolation and ignorance, that a country like America provides.

        1. Sharlee01 profile image84
          Sharlee01posted 2 years agoin reply to this

          Well said

          1. Fayetteville Faye profile image60
            Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this

            Not really, there was no such "no compromise" position that was supported by President Biden.   In fact he and many other world leaders tried to avert this war with diplomacy.  How do you talk down a brutal dictator like Putin?

        2. Fayetteville Faye profile image60
          Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this

          The decisions to not to roll over were with Ukraine, not us.  Again, we should have strong-armed them to do something different?  How?? The decision for war was not ours, you keep pretending like it was our decision to go to war.  The timeline does not matter. The president of Ukraine made those decisions for his country.

          1. Ken Burgess profile image71
            Ken Burgessposted 2 years agoin reply to this

            Again incorrect.

            There is no escalation to war with Russia if America (and the West) told Zelensky to put a sock in it, if they (not Zelensky) were willing to cede Crimea and end the hostilities.

            What you fail to understand is Biden/America wanted this war.  Biden and those behind him in DC wanted this war.

            Just like we wanted war with Iraq.

            Just like we instigated the revolt in Syria.

            If you think otherwise you are simply naive to how our government and the world works and has worked for as long as I have been around.

            Timeline matters, Crimea's true history matters, the amount of lives that will be lost, and the many more that will be ruined because of the greed, arrogance and psychopathy that controls our government and the decisions on what nation we destroy next matters.

            1. Fayetteville Faye profile image60
              Fayetteville Fayeposted 2 years agoin reply to this

              Why on Earth do you think that we should tell any Nation to put a sock in it??   I thought that far right conservatives were hoping for America to become a hermit Kingdom.  You know, no commentary on anything globally.  You can't have it both ways

              1. Ken Burgess profile image71
                Ken Burgessposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                That you consider me a "far right conservative" doesn't make it so.

                Any more than my thinking you are a Far-Left Extremist makes it so.

                I consider you to be akin to Esoteric and PeoplePower, which is to essentially be in denial of any facts or information that counters your own personal beliefs... but that doesn't mean my assessment of you is correct.


                As for America telling other nations what to do, it does so all the time, what to do, what not to do, again it is either naivety or disregard for reality to think this is otherwise.

                America is the money, weapons, and expertise behind the war with Russia.

                Not Zelensky and not the people of Ukraine... the people are just the victims of America's "Democracy Building".

              2. Readmikenow profile image95
                Readmikenowposted 24 months agoin reply to this

                "Why on Earth do you think that we should tell any Nation to put a sock in it?

                I agree with you. I have to admit, the ignorance I see displayed on these forums is very disappointing. It is as if they have no idea that Russia is behaving like the Nazis of World War II with what they're doing to the people of Ukraine.  People are concerned about land when they should be concerned with war crimes and Russia's extensive crimes against humanity.

                1. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
                  Kathryn L Hillposted 24 months agoin reply to this

                  And what do we do with that concern?
                  Destroy the whole world?

                  What is better, defending the planet or bombing the heck out of the planet.
                  If peace can be had, why not establish it?
                  Putin said, Okay I'm done, I have annexed the territory I wanted ... lets have peace." And Zellinski said
                  NO.
                  roll

                2. Ken Burgess profile image71
                  Ken Burgessposted 24 months agoin reply to this

                  If you think I, or the majority of Americans are going to support starting WWIII over Ukraine, you are wrong.

                  I will continue to post here and everywhere else I make posts, the truth about Zelensky pushing for this war, about Biden pushing for this war, about the refusal of them to negotiate a peace.

                  America does NOT have a superior or more moral position with which to tell Russia no you cannot have Crimea.

                  In the UN: 66 nations called for an end to Ukraine war.  Yes, most of the world has condemned Russia's invasion. But a growing amount of the global community has called urgently for an end to the war.

                  The 66 nations that called for peace in Ukraine make up more than a third of the countries in the world, and they represent most of the Earth's population, including India, China, Indonesia, Bangladesh, Brazil and Mexico.

                  On March 11, 2022, President Biden reassured the American public and the world that the United States and its NATO allies were not at war with Russia. "We will not fight a war with Russia in Ukraine," said Biden. "Direct conflict between NATO and Russia is World War III, something we must strive to prevent."

                  Biden lied.

                  NATO and EU countries have repeatedly rejected peace negotiations, and U.S. and British leaders have actively undermined them, five European countries Hungary, Malta, Portugal, San Marino and the Vatican joined the calls for peace at the General Assembly.

                  On Oct. 5, Nikolay Patrushev, the head of Russia's Security Council, recognized that Russia is now fighting NATO in Ukraine.  Putin has reminded the world that Russia has nuclear weapons and is prepared to use them "when the very existence of the state is put under threat," as Russia's official nuclear weapons doctrine declared in June 2020.

                  Russia now considers itself under direct threat.

                  1. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
                    Kathryn L Hillposted 24 months agoin reply to this

                    Thank You, Ken.

                    Plus:
                    "Russian President Vladimir Putin's threat to use nuclear weapons in Ukraine has brought the world closer to "Armageddon" than at any time since the Cold-War Cuban Missile Crisis, U.S. President Joe Biden said."
                    — Reuters, 7 Oct. 2022

                    Biden knows full well!
                    There's no excuse!

                    Get your bearings, know your time
                    Don't you worry, weather's fine
                    All the world knows what I'm saying
                    All the world knows what I'm saying
                    The world knows fine well
                    Get together, work it out
                    Simplicity is what it's about
                    All the world knows what I'm saying
                    All the world knows what I'm saying
                    The world knows fine well

                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyxfCQG1t4w

            2. Readmikenow profile image95
              Readmikenowposted 24 months agoin reply to this

              Again, with Crimea.

              You really should educate yourself on it.  The election in Crimea after the Russians annexed it, do you know about this?  Any idea how it was conducted?  Maybe you need to learn about it.

              Did you know at the turn of the century that Crimea was mostly made up of Ukrainians and Tartars?  Guess what happened.  What always happens when Russia takes over a place.  Huge numbers of Ukrainians and Tartars were moved to Russia, and Russians were moved in.  You talk of Crimea's true history, you need to learn it.

              As I told you before, Ukrainians were involved in a guerilla war against the Soviet Union.  There was no way they could stop it. An agreement was reached to make Crimea part of Ukraine if hostilities stopped.  THAT is the reason Crimea became part of Ukraine. You see, Ukrainians and Tartars fought together to make it happen.   

              I could post many things here, but why? You have an overwhelming desire to ignore the truth.

              So, sad.

              1. lobobrandon profile image77
                lobobrandonposted 24 months agoin reply to this

                The people on the right in the USA do not care about how elections are held. These are the same folk who tried to prevent a voted president from taking office on January 6th. Do you think they are going to take the time to research how the votes in Crimea and the eastern regions that were recently held were carried out?

                1. Ken Burgess profile image71
                  Ken Burgessposted 24 months agoin reply to this

                  Yes, absolutely the one arguing how idiotic this war is (me), is the radical extremist.

                  Not supporting a war that is going to kill millions is a bad thing, what a lunatic I am.

                  It doesn't matter what you believe about the Crimean election to secede.

                  What matters is that Crimea had been absorbed by Russia, one way or the other, without a shot being fired.

                  What a surprise considering what a cluster flock Ukraine was back in 2014. 

                  What a surprise considering the people of Crimea all spoke Russian, many had ties to Russia, family, history.

                  Why is there war?

                  Because Zelensky declared war against Russia back in 2021 and Biden came right out and said he supported it 100%.

                  https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-polyti … rimea.html

                  Why is there still war?

                  Because Zelensky is still spouting the same idiocy about taking Crimea from Russia today.

                  https://dnyuz.com/2022/08/24/on-the-eve … ck-crimea/

                  That's what this war is about.

                  And as Ukraine gets bombed back into the stone age, go ahead and tell me how its worth it.

                  And if nuclear war breaks out, come back and tell me how this was something that had to be done.

                  You know, Crimea had been existing peacefully as part of Russia since 2014... tell me how they just had to be freed from that horrible fate... at the cost of millions of lives.

                  Brilliant...

              2. Miebakagh57 profile image73
                Miebakagh57posted 24 months agoin reply to this

                Mike, I'm noteing this curious event at the moment, and I'll research it. Thanks.

  9. Kathryn L Hill profile image81
    Kathryn L Hillposted 24 months ago
 
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