NY Supreme Court reinstates workers fired for COVID-19 vaccine refusal

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   Readmikenowposted 2 years ago

   Justice for people who refused to take the vaccine is happening at last.  In all places, New York.  NOBODY should have been fired for refusing to take a vaccine that could not keep people from getting Covid or passing it on.  It was ridiculous.
   
   "The Supreme Court of New York ordered that workers who were fired for not receiving the COVID-19 vaccine be reinstated to their positions and receive back pay.
   
   According to the court, the vaccine is "not absolute" and the mandate "violated the petitioners' equal protection rights as the mandate is arbitrary and capricious.
   
   While the court recognized the authority of the former health commissioner of the city of New York, David Chokshi, to issue public health mandates, it ruled that the commissioner can't create new conditions of employment for city workers. Furthermore, the commissioner does not have the authority to prevent workers from reporting for duty, nor can he terminate employees."
   
   https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news … id-vaccine

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      Readmikenowposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      The next thing we need to do is reinstate all the members of the military who were terminated for refusing to take the vaccine.
      
      A vaccine that has been proven to not prevent contacting or transmitting the disease.

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         wildernessposted 2 years agoin reply to this

         A vaccine that was absolutely proven statistically useful in preventing the transmission of COVID.  Not 100% (we all understand that nothing in biology is 100%), but very, very useful.

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            DrMark1961posted 2 years agoin reply to this

            Proof? Where is it?

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               wildernessposted 2 years agoin reply to this

               Rates of infection, hospitalization and death before and after vaccine use.

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                  DrMark1961posted 2 years agoin reply to this

                  None of which is proof. Yes, there are fewer cases. That happens in ALL disease outbreaks after the susceptible population dies off or recovers. Proof of a vaccines efficacy is when a vaccinated population is challenged and becomes infected less than a nonvaccinated population.

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                     wildernessposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                     Then there is no proof of anything in medicine.  No proof the polio vaccine works, no proof surgery works, nothing.  But that isn't true.
                     
                     "Proof of a vaccines efficacy is when a vaccinated population is challenged and becomes infected less than a nonvaccinated population."
                     
                     Which is exactly what we saw; vaccinated people were infected less, were in the hospital less and had a lower death toll than unvaccinated.  Saying the fall was due to the death of susceptible population makes no sense, not when we had millions of people exposed, both vaccinated and unvaccinated.
                     
                     This is simple statistics, not an effort to say that vaccines have no effect or even cause autism.

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                        DrMark1961posted 2 years agoin reply to this

                        There is proof other vaccines work.
                        Show the numbers on COVID. Where are the numbers that show that vaccinated have a lower death toll? I have seen the opposite, but always with a disclaimer stating the higher death toll in vaccinated is because the population is more susceptible.
                        That may be true. It would be easy enough tô compare 10000 vaccinated tô 10000 unvaccinated in the same age range, 30 tô 40, for example. This could even bê done by telefone. That would be proof. If you have seen that, bê sure tô let us know só that we can bê convinced.
                        If a study like that does not exist, there is no proof.

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                     Nathanvilleposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                     There has been a lot of studies, particularly in the UK e.g. the controversial Covid-19 human challenge studies.  A 'Human Challenge Study' is where people are deliberately infected with a dangerous disease (human guineapigs) under laboratory conditions, in order to study the disease - in the UK volunteers were paid around $6,200 each.
                     
                     The type of detailed research conducted in the UK includes 'test-negative case-control'; which is generally considered to be an effective method for such studies. 
                     
                     A detailed list of studies carried out in the UK, into the effectiveness of the Covid vaccines is given in the link:-
                     
                     https://www.gov.uk/guidance/monitoring- … accination
                     
                     The general conclusion of the studies includes, for example:  "​In somebody who received their second dose around 6 months previously, a booster dose increases protection against hospitalisation by 50 to 60%."

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                        DrMark1961posted 2 years agoin reply to this

                        That statement "In somebody who received their second dose around 6 months previously, a booster dose increases protection against hospitalisation by 50 to 60%" was about Omicron.
                        
                        If you read further "Another limitation is that we have not done a formal validation on cases using more detailed case note review to show that those with short stays and coding not in primary fields are less likely to be admitted due to COVID-19."
                        
                        I am definitely willing to accept from these studies that the vaccine works about as well as the Bordetella bronchiseptica vaccine for dogs. It does not prevent the disease but if the person contracts it they are shedding less virus so may be less likely to spread it. I do not think that is a reason to fire people and prevent them from getting a new drivers license.It is NOT anything like Biden said to the American public when it was released.
                        
                        I also read the link from the UK that said there were higher death rates in vaccinated persons. (I do not know where this is as you posted it on an earlier thread.) The researchers stated the higher death rate was due to the ages of vaccinated persons, which may be true, but I have not seen anything on death rates on vaccinated and unvaccinated people.

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                           Nathanvilleposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                           Where you say:-
                           
                           “I also read the link from the UK that said there were higher death rates in vaccinated persons.…. The researchers stated the higher death rate was due to the ages of vaccinated persons, which may be true….”
                           
                           Yep, the dangers of ‘raw data’; which prima facie may show one thing e.g. “higher death rates in vaccinated persons”; stuff which the anti-vaxxer conspiracy theorists like to get hold of and plaster all over the Internet:  But when that data is analysed, a rational explanation is found e.g. the take-up of vaccination was higher in older people than younger people because they were at a far higher risk of serious illness and death from covid, and the vaccine offered some protection (saved lives).
                           
                           During the height of the pandemic, before the Omicron, the previous variants were far more deadly, and most certainly in jobs involving close contact with people most vulnerable to serious illness and death from contracting covid (the elderly and people with underlying health conditions), such as nurses in hospitals or carers in ‘care homes for the elderly’, then for that nurse to contract and pass on covid to an elderly person (high risk of serious illness and death) because that nurse refuses to get vaccinated is irresponsible.
                           
                           Therefore, under such circumstances, at the time, to fire nurses for not getting vaccinated would have been justified. 
                           
                           But to fire people who are not in regular close contact with people who are high risk to serious illness/death from covid, such as office workers or lorry drivers, can’t be justified; and certainly, there is no justification for preventing them from getting new drivers licenses.
                           
                           Of course, now, with the Omicron variant, although it’s far more contagious than previous variants, it’s far less deadly; so there is certainly no reason now to treat unvaccinated people any differently to vaccinated people.
                           
                           In the UK, during the pandemic restrictions were far greater than in the USA e.g. lockdowns lasting for months, all shops closed by law except for essential shops e.g. food stores, mandatory masks, and restricted travel etc.  These restrictions lasted over a year in the UK, until after the vaccine started to be rolled out e.g. when hospitalisations and deaths started to fall, then the restrictions were slowly lifted. 
                           
                           Towards the end of the pandemic, once the vaccine had been rolled out to the whole population, the UK Government was on the verge of firing NHS nurses who refused to get vaccinated, but then along came the Omicron variant, and that changed everything e.g. within months of the Omicron variant becoming the dominant strain in the UK ‘ALL’ covid restrictions (Regulations) were abolished. 
                           
                           So for the past 18 months we’ve had no covid restrictions, and life has returned to normal, as it was pre-covid.

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                              Readmikenowposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                              It seems like that is starting to be the norm in Europe.
                              
                              Italy to reinstate health workers who did not comply with COVID vaccine mandates
                              
                              
                              Italian healthcare workers who were suspended from their jobs for not choosing to receive the coronavirus vaccine will soon be reinstated, the country’s health officials said. Fines issued to people who decided against the vaccine will also be canceled.
                              
                              New Health Minister Orazio Schillaci announced Friday that hospitals were suffering from a shortage of medical personnel and that the decline of coronavirus cases should allow for a "reintegration" of penalized workers suspended under rules of the previous administration.
                              
                              "A measure is being finalized that will allow the reintegration into service of health staff subject to suspension proceedings for non-compliance with compulsory vaccination before the expiry date of the suspension," Schillaci said, according to Reuters.
                              
                              https://news.yahoo.com/italy-reinstate- … 34131.html
                              
                              In the United States, I believe all the members of the military that were discharged for not taking the vaccine should be reinstated.  Training military members is a long and expensive process.  You can discharge thousands for such a trivial thing.

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                                 Nathanvilleposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                                 Yep, you summarised it there "decline of coronavirus cases should allow for a "reintegration" of penalized workers suspended under rules...." [imposed during the pandemic] e.g. the pandemic is over, so there is no longer any need for imposing restrictions.

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            Readmikenowposted 2 years agoin reply to this

            You are wrong.
            
            The latest data shows the vaccine did not prevent the transmission or getting Covid.  That medical data is what was used for the ruling in the NY State Supreme Court case.

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               wildernessposted 2 years agoin reply to this

               Odd how the rate of infection went way down for the vaccinated isn't it?  Especially if it did not prevent infection!  Must have been something in the air around the needles.

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                  Readmikenowposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                  Are you familiar with something called "Natual Immunity?"
                  
                  "Natural immunity offers greater COVID protection than vaccines, study finds
                  
                  A study published this month in the New England Journal of Medicine shared findings that supported natural immunity providing greater protection from COVID infection than multiple vaccinations.
                  
                  The study said it found that COVID protection decreases over time, but the overall protection was higher in those who had COVID than those who received a second vaccine dose."
                  
                  https://www.nbc12.com/2022/06/22/natura … udy-finds/

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                     wildernessposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                     And that those that have had COVID have a natural immunity proves that the vaccine does not work for those that have NOT had the disease?
                     
                     I'm not following that line of reasoning.

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                        DrMark1961posted 2 years agoin reply to this

                        And a disease is less prevelant in a population because of the vaccine? You mentioned bubonic plague, which was an epidemic in Europe at one time. The incidence fell but there was no vaccine.

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                           wildernessposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                           You don't seem to understand, or are unwilling to understand.
                           
                           Vaccinated people contacted COVID at a much lower rate than unvaccinated people.  Natural immunity has nothing to do with it.  Unless you're willing to claim that the vaccinated people that did not get COVID all had natural immunity from already having the disease?  That, as a group, the only people getting vaccinated were those that had already had COVID so already had immunity?

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                              DrMark1961posted 2 years agoin reply to this

                              No, you do not understand, Biden has been telling you that and It is not true. No one hás shown that this vaccine is going tô Prevent the vaccinated population from becoming infected.
                              Those Uk studies Nathanville cited showed less hospitilization for some types. No study shows less infection.

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                                 Nathanvilleposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                                 To the UK Government's one of the key criteria from the start of the pandemic has always been for 'less hospitalisations' (and deaths) e.g. the tremendous strain high levels of hospitalisations from serious covid infections puts on the healthcare system (NHS).  So, if the vaccines help to keep people out of hospital, putting less strain on the healthcare system, then that is surely what's important.

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                              Readmikenowposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                              "Vaccinated people contacted COVID at a much lower rate than unvaccinated people."
                              
                              Please provide a link to a study that proves this assertion.  Otherwise, it needs to be ignored.

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      wildernessposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      Sounds like that decision would include that states/cities cannot institute quarantines, either.  After all it is not "absolute" that contact with the disease means a person will get it.  So, whether ill with bubonic plague or leprosy, a worker must be allowed on the job, infecting anyone in range. 
      
      Insanity.

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      abwilliamsposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      It's a start!
      How do they get back their good reputations!?
      Permission was granted from on high (from our Gov) to treat the unvaxxed as unclean and unholy, a danger to society, to be avoided, as if avoiding the plague.
      Before they (the heavens, the gods, the Gov) knew anything about anything, when it came to this vaccine; such as; does it work, will there be long term effects, how will the young and healthy react to it, is it more of a danger to some/to all?
      There was an all out effort/campaign to have us not overthink it, not question it, just get the shot and the time for asking questions.....would come later!
      I am still so furious about all of this!!!

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         DrMark1961posted 2 years agoin reply to this

         Our Workers Party presidential candidate, who will probably win tomorrow, has said that although he cannot make the vaccine mandatory, he will make a vaccine cerificate required to get a drivers license, identity card, work in a public office, travel to see your parents, etc.

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   abwilliamsposted 2 years ago

   Those of you who actually study history and pay attention, must be seething!
   I will pray for a miracle to take place in your Country Doc!
   This type of governing; dictating, placing mandates on the people is what destroys Nations! :`(
   Please keep us posted!

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      DrMark1961posted 2 years agoin reply to this

      It is going to take a miracle, thanks. He is an ex-convict (convicted and served for corruption and stealing public money) but the supreme court vacated his conviction so he could run for office again. Most people realize he is a theif but they say "all of them are" so plan on voting for him anyway since he said he would make beer and steaks cheaper.

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         abwilliamsposted 2 years agoin reply to this

         Oh no...not the old, we may go down, but it will be with full bellies and in high spirits, routine?!?
         Yikes!

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