How would Americans handle facing what Ukrainians are facing?
What would happen if a foreign army gained control of over 60 percent of the United States within a week after an invasion? How would Americans react? Could they handle seeing their cities blown up, civilian casualties in the tens of thousands. Old people, women and children being killed by missiles daily. How would Americans react to seeing liberated cities tell stories of the wholesale slaughter of people of all ages, genders and races. How would American handle listening to the stories of brutal torture of old people, women and even children. Could America endure a cold winter with limited food, electricity, and heat?
Russia has not discriminated with their murdering and destroying things. They've blown up Christian churches, Muslim Mosques and Jewish Temples. They don't care about trans rights, gay rights, social justice or any such thing.
Would Americans remain dedicated to liberating their country and defeating the enemy?
Is it possible the liberals would work to understand the motivation of the enemy? Would they behave like certain people did in France during World War II and for a Vichy style government? Would they join with the invaders believing they can change the country into a better one with things are over?
I've had a difficult week speaking with people from Ukraine. I'm overwhelmed with their relentless determination to liberate their country from Russia. What they are experiencing is too difficult to describe. One person told me, "The Russians can take our food, our heat, our homes and we will still fight them. In the future, Ukrainians with have a country and know the sacrifice we are making to keep Ukraine a free country." Of course, that is not an exact translation, but it's close.
What would Americans do in this situation?I didn't know there was a remake of the original. Missed it. However, I get the point and it is well-made!
I saw the 1980s era film, it was compelling and quite in line with American world view as part of Reagan's America. For a matter of fact, he had commented favorably regarding the film.
I think it is still in line with an American worldview. We have enough personal security now to argue about silly stuff. Take that away, as Mike's question does, and I think you will find that 1980s Reagan America is still here.
That's not a rebuke, it's just a perception.
GAI don't know, I don't see see the intense nationalism and jingoism of that era, today.
The Cold War was a farce, the Contra thing was just our sticking our noses in a civil war in Central America, consigning the world to authoritarian tyrants over communists/socialists, regardless of the fate of the citizens therein. When I really did not see the difference the advocates of Reaganism were talking about between the two.
It is a perception, quite, indeed, but I can offer another from a different direction. Was it freedom over tyranny or just the labels that were more unrelated to those concepts but more associated with having a membership to the "free world" or submission to the American world view (political and economic)as opposed to resistance to it.
Another film that brought much of that animosity out was Rocky IV, classic Ronald Reagan era Cold War stuff...I don't believe the younger generations of Americans have that same sense of fighting for what is theirs, or fighting for their freedom or property.
American society has programmed the younger generations to think VASTLY differently than those that are in the 40+ age category.
Our society today, those younger generations, overwhelmingly are unfamiliar with Military Service, Hunting, Fighting and for that matter the level of work ethic and self-determination that is far more apparent in the men of the 40+ generations.
Yes, there are outliers and exceptions to this blanket view. But the 40+ generations are much more dominated by Boys-will-be-Boys, Men are expected to provide and protect, etc. beliefs and upbringing.
That is certainly NOT what is being taught in mainstream American society today, anyone who has had to bring up children through the school system in the last 2+ decades knows exactly what I am talking about, unless they are living in a very rural or farmland region of the country where the "progressive" agendas haven't really taken hold.
Another word I would use for the younger generations is "domesticated" or "docile" they have their iphones, internet, video games, their processed foods are filled with things that make them lethargic and unhealthy, any wrong act or outburst can have them suspended or arrested... unless you are stuck growing up in a poor inner city area, the chances of a young person knowing how to fight to survive a tough environment is nil.I believe you are absolutely correct.
"Yes, there are outliers and exceptions to this blanket view."
I often wonder if there are enough to make a difference.Damn Ken, you're more of a curmudgeon than I ever was. I can see a kernel of reality in the point you make, but I think you have borrowed one of Cred's 'broad brushes' and painted the whole as I would a segment.
The segment I would describe as you do would be the generation of the 2000s. (the generational thing you mentioned) Of that segment, I would narrow it to the 'liberals'' half of the population. From there the economic differences - as you mentioned - further narrow the group that fits your description.
My urge to agree with your point is strong but my perception of the Conservative half of that same segment gives me reason to think a narrower group fits your description than you think.
We may be on the path you describe, but we aren't there yet.
GADon't know where you have been, but we sure could use you "up in here "... LOL
I will admit I will be using your terms "domesticated" or "docile"
So well put.Ken, just out of curiosity if you had a decade when all was right in America, what would that have been?
I didn't know either. I was expecting the search to return the original, but the remake looks more suitable to Mike's question.
GAI would like to see it. The perspective of being in a city, to me, makes it more relatable. I think both together offer an overall view. Realistically, if there was an invasion and it was China they would be right here where I live in San Diego county. There is The Pacific fleet home in San Diego city and the Marines at Camp Pendleton both being certain targets I would suspect.
Some sociologists would probably make something of this, but . . . conversely, the original seems more relatable to me.
Rural to semi-rural was my pre-adult life, and the conservative setting of the movie's 1980s life fit the world of my life at the time.
GA
Mike, just because the Left chooses not to see the world the through the lenses of those used by archaic dinosaurs doesn't mean that they are not patriotic and not support the country in its need. If there is the word "treason" to be bandied about, it applies far more to the GOP than anyone else, in its attempt to shortcuicuit our Consitutional process.
Americans would fight and resist. But, the need for "defense" and militarism are two different things.
I hear it that is only you Trumplican types that has put forth any resistance in continuing to provide assistance to the Ukraine? It is your folks that welcome the tyrannical, authoritarian leader of Hungary to your CPAC meetings last summer. Don't worry, the left and President Biden have been and continue to support the Ukraine against Russia.I think it's possible for those on the left to rejoice in buildings being blown to bits as it would save them the trouble of burning them down. The invading force might be able to save their missiles and just tell those on the left to burn the building down for them. We all know they have quite a bit of experience in this area.
I just wonder how these liberals would do facing the difficulties that people are facing in Ukraine. Most of the ones I know I believe would run or go with the enemy. I believe the only things liberals would fight is a way to another country to continue their lifestyle.
biden and the democrats are getting major support from the weapons manufacturers who are getting the money to provide weapons to Ukraine. They are using Ukraine like democrats have always used Ukraine. biden and the democrats fear financial accountability. The Republicans expect it.Conservatives that I see, one former President for example, talks a tough game but hides behinds his mama's skirts when it is actually time make the sacrifice. We had the old term "chicken hawks" to describe such a sort.
I live here and I will fight to repel invaders as well as keep invaders from within from stealing our agreed upon form of democratic governance. I can't fathom what liberals you know who you seem to be easily consigning as cowards.Conservatives that I see, one former President for example, talks a tough game but hides behinds his mama's skirts when it is actually time for him to make the sacrifice. We had the old term "chicken hawks" to describe such a sort.
I live here and I will fight to repel invaders as well as keep invaders from within from stealing our agreed upon form of democratic governance. I can't fathom what liberals you know who you seem to be easily consigning as cowards.I see one current president with the same history.
I don't see liberals as cowards, I see them as people who would rejoice in the fall of this country. I really believe many of them would join with the enemy. I would tell you what happens to people who supported the Russians before their towns were liberated, but you would probably be pretty disgusted. It isn't good.
I wonder how the anti-second amendment people would do during such an invasion?But, Mike, while I am not particularely fond of the American right nor Republicans, it is said that only fools fight within a burning house.
We will first put out the fire and then resume the struggle where We left off.....
I rejoice in the fall of authoritarian and tyrannical advocates, if I can make a incision and remove them as I would a cancer, I would. I need not leave my country and home to do that. I work on that to my best ability, daily.
Hiding behind a gun is just another form of weakness and cowardice of its own, just bluster and they would run like rabbits once they realize that they have skin in the game, "drugstore cowboys" are not necessarily heroes."Hiding behind a gun is just another form of weakness and cowardice of its own, just bluster and they would run like rabbits once they realize that they have skin in the game, "drugstore cowboys" are not necessarily heroes"
You have a point. When I was in the Army, many times the people who talked the toughest would be the most afraid when things got real. It happened more than once. Guys who came from cities and acted like they weren't afraid of anybody or anything, became real afraid when facing a real enemy.
But, I would put my trust more in people who own guns and know about guns than people who have never shot one and can only display their ignorance of guns.
You never know how people will react when the bad guys come into town. Everybody changes. The stories I hear about bravery from people in Ukraine make me proud and also break my heart. Many Ukrainians have sacrificed their lives to fight the Russians. I believe, too many.Lots of fluff being blown up in here...
I think all the fluff should offer to the inside you need to pretty much answer your questions.
And this statement you offered becomes very evident.
"Is it possible the liberals would work to understand the motivation of the enemy? Would they behave like certain people did in France during World War II and for a Vichy style government? Would they join with the invaders believing they can change the country into a better one with things are over?"You and I know as prior military, that true courage and valor oftentimes does not come from the muzzle of a gun.
If you want to truly destroy an enemy it is to your benefit to understand its motives and objectives.
It is true, Mike, when confronted with the actual terror, unsung heroes could well come from a source none of us would suspect. I am proud of the Ukrainians and their fortitude against an overwhelming enemy.
I put my trust in people who are by nature courageous whether they are armed or not. I prefer to associate with these sorts of people. They are not afraid of anything even when the odds are against them. Such is what we are seeing in the Ukraine today.
This one is making it really hard to keep the cap on the bottle.
Hiding from reality is also a form of weakness and cowardice. It was folks hiding behind guns that secured your liberty to bluster about the ideological enlightenment of the Left.
In your view, half of our nation are just cowardly blowhards that would roll over and become leash-led collaborators if they were invaded as Ukraine was. My view is the opposite of yours. I'm going with the armed folks and you can stick with your enlightened 'give-peace-a-chance' progressives.
Geesh, It's pretty rich of you to assign the bluster label to the type of folks you would need to save your butt if Mike's scenario was a U.S. one.
And speaking of 'skin in the game', look at our war history to see who has skin in the game. Who didn't go to war because they had college deferments or political or monied connections?
I can also see a bunch of folks running like rabbits when faced with armed force, but it ain't the ones hiding behind guns.
To cover my butt; you know that I am talking about the extremes of both sides. The "give peace a chance' label doesn't cover all of the Left, and the implied faith in the character of "the folks hiding behind guns" doesn't cover all of them either.
Tsk. Tsk.
GAIts ok, GA, loosen the cap and let the effervescence flow freely.
Our service people of past and present were not "hiding" behind guns but using them to secure a necessary objective. No need to don your camouflage khakis or rattle sabers toward that end. I never hesitate to do what is necessary and I would do it without needless brandishing or posturing. And, yes, the left is ideological enlightened compared to the other side, IMHO, of course.
Where do you get the idea that I said that half the nation was cowardly? I was just defending against those that seem to believe that liberal minded people would just as soon destroy the country as defend it, and that is incorrect.
A successful military strategy sometimes involves more than who has the most or the biggest guns. Much of that we are now seeing within the Ukraine.
I am taxed to pay for a professional military here to deal with much of it but I would arm myself if need be to protect what belongs to me. But, I am not one for bluster, intimidation or bravado of the "gun nuts".
There are plenty of people, prominent politicians, that did not serve. The difference is that I don't want those people talking tough and promoting militarism, while not having done anything themselves, THATS hypocrisy.
Dont be so sure that the one that brandishes firearms while intimidating unarmed civilians at city hall would be your reliable first line of defense in an emergency.
And yes, you did adequately cover your butt with your last statement. Next time, though.....
From what I have witnessed in the past decade, I must agree with your sentiment. No, it is not a pleasant realization, but I have come to face the new ideologies many American have adopted. I think we have a segment of Americans that would rejoice in America failing.
Conservatives that believe in gun rights, believe in the constitutional right to protect our families and homes., as well as our Country. I would guess these would be the citizens that would step up, just due to a long belief that we have the full right to protect our families and homes.
A foreign army invaders would be the least of our problems, A much much bigger problem right now is fending off these Nazi Democrats that are in our country right now.
Protect and defend the U.S. Constitution against Nazi Democrats.I do wonder how these people would handle facing the hardships Ukrainians are facing right now.
I understand what you're asking. But if you leave it up to Democrats they would likely hand this country over to the army invaders with open arms. Which means Republicans would have to fight against the army invaders and the chicken crap Democrats.
I think most would handle it better than we might expect and there will be those who will spend precious moments waiting for someone to save them, someone to fix it, rather than go into survival mode.
Too many citizens don't know the first thing about hunting, fishing, gardening, etc. nor the first thing about defending themselves; all of those things which will sustain them, possibly save them, should such a horrific time come.I am going to just stick to your blunt questions, taking your word's. into consideration. I feel or better yet, I can see you were very precise in your wording, and that you do seek answers. I also truely feel that you are suffering and that you want and need answers.
I am going to offer my view... and it is not going to be pretty, but I have the freedom to share my view, and my thoughts and I am sure my view will promote ire in some here. So, on to your questions.
"What would happen if a foreign army gained control of over 60 percent of the United States within a week after an invasion? "
It would seem we were taken over very quickly, this should give anyone a huge heads-up that many cowered quickly, many Americans pretty much did zip. Some would stand and fight, but many in my view would not.
Many would be looking for someone to do something, demanding someone do something. Yes, we would have some that would rally and fight, these are citizens that feel we have something to fight for. It is also positive to consider a large majority of Americans come from a strong stock of people that came to our shores from all over the world.
" Could they handle seeing their cities blown up, civilian casualties in the tens of thousands. Old people, women and children being killed by missiles daily. "
I think many American citizens do better with watching faraway countries be blown up and just hearing about fatalities. Seeing war close up would most likely cause many to have breakdowns.
We still have many with backbones
"American handle listening to the stories of brutal torture of old people, women, and even children."
I think Americans do this well again if the stories are not about our citizens being killed in our streets. I mean, have you not witnessed how some can explain away just about anything, even atrocities on faraway shores?
I mean how easy is it to have the need to bury men, women, and children -- without having to face the fact that we now have a really big problem.
I would guess many would react by hiding anywhere they felt they would not be found, and not need to look at what was occurring in their towns, and cities.
"Would Americans remain dedicated to liberating their country and defeating the enemy?"
We do have a wonderful military, and I believe America has enough strong citizens to take up for the weak, and fight to make an attempt to liberate the country. Not really sure, to be honest, if we would have the numbers to fight as the Ukrainians are doing. Many at this point, in my view, are dissatisfied with America and are hell-bent on ripping it to the ground.
"Is it possible the liberals would work to understand the motivation of the enemy? YES , in my view
Would they behave like certain people did in France during World War II and for a Vichy-style government? YES, some would in my view. .
Would they join with the invaders believing they can change the country into a better one with things are over?" YES, an element would. Ibn my view.
So, your last question is very hard to answer, and not easy to type.
"What would Americans do in this situation?"
I can only first say --- It's very obvious the Ukrainian people love their country, they so value their freedoms and are committed to saving their country and freedoms at all costs. In my honest opinion, I don't see this kind of patriotism here in America. I feel our American society is very split in regard to ideologies. In my view, We don't stand as one, as we did many decades ago. Some would run for the hills. Some would fight like hell.I must almost laugh, and all of a sudden your thread seems very paramount.
This administration (our new world order) has permitted a giant Chinese ballon cross into US airspace, hovering over the US’s nuclear arsenal that is home to one of three known major nuclear missile silo fields. And then move on to the middle of the US, due to being a maneuverable craft.
So, your thought about the US being taken over quickly is not, in my view, something that could very well happen, from above, with a payload that could threaten our entire country. Hopefully, this was just a trial-type flight. I would think a payload of a bio-weapon could be something the Chinese would now seem very doable.
So, I guess we will see how 'We the people handle the news of a huge possibly weaponized balloon.
I ask myself almost every other day -- Why isn't a huge majority not having the same fear as I do with this president, and this administration/ They lied about first it was a balloon that went off track and just blew into the US. Today we are told it is being fully operated. And we have allowed it to travel across to the middle of the country.
I really think this incident should go to answer many of your questions. LOL
What I see is a lot of talking heads, with little to no solutions to getting this balloon out of the airspace. And ultimately China has the full bragging rights to 'We entered US airspace"... I mean they knew it was coming -- It had first flown over the Aleutian Islands, through Canada, and into Montana. What we are being told it would be dangerous to shoot it down. WHY THE HELL DID THEY NOT SHOOT IT DOWN BEFORE IT ENDED UP IN OUR AIRSPACE?
Maybe time for Americans to wake up, and see the serious problems that are occurring under this president.
In regard to right and left --- tune in to CNN, then tune into Fox. I think your thoughts on -- " Is it possible the liberals would work to understand the motivation of the enemy? Would they behave like certain people did in France during World War II and for a Vichy-style government?" Are so well-founded.
As I have said time and again -- Biden has really bad karma.So, Sharlee, I guess that if Trump were in charge he would have controlled the air currents and such a thing would never have happened.
Where are all the usual pointers from you regarding having all the facts? Do you have them all?MY God! What the hell does Trump have to do with this?
I have just listened to the Penagon pressor all I have shared in my comment other than my view was from that televised presser. I will offer Youtube to the briefing. I have become discussed with liberals accusing me of being untruthful. If I shared a view, I worded my sentence as a view. If I quote a fact I am always ready to offer a source.
Be careful, your liberalness is really showing. In my view, just bringing up Trump, and trying to divert this balloon issue away from the facts is very much your liberal's shield. popping up, and offers little to detract away from what I shared in my comment.
How about some real conversation about the guy you support, the guy that once again has due to poor problem solving put our nation in jeopardy? That guy's name is Joe Biden.
He is the guy that allowed a Chinese aircraft balloon to come into our country and is currently maneuvering its way to wherever the Chinese want it to go. It is now being reported ( by Fox) that the US has been watching this balloon for months as it made its way to our shores. So let's get back to the subject of my comment. I can assure you I did not bring up Trump.
Source- I mean they knew it was coming -- It had first flown over the Aleutian Islands, through Canada, and into Montana.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl … 74932.html
Source - Pentagon pressor -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCGL8TJhh6gOh, come on, Sharlee, I never said that you were untruthful. It is just a matter of perception, your truth and mine would differ. Of course my liberalism shows, i am progressive.
We see Joe Biden from two different lenses, your view is not an absolute one.
When the balloon is examined did the Chinese claim for its purpose check out, or was it instrument of espionage?
I don't believe anything that Fox says, I will look for any alternative reporting.
As for that conversation regarding Joe Biden, he had my vote and my full support and was a far better outcome than the alternative.
I wait to see any further developments in regards to this matter as I know that you will.I will wait to hear more about this Ballon. This far I find it a serious problem, and many years ago, I think you would have found this a serious problem too.
I think we all had reasons for voting for the lesser of the two... But my God, time to have a look around, and see the many problems Biden has caused and is continuing to cause.
I can't compare an if come --- I can say I have never witnessed a president that has caused such problems to the Nation. I have never witnessed so many in our society be willing to ignore serious problems.
I ask as I have before --- What next?"many years ago, I think you would have found this a serious problem too. "
What would Roosevelt have done? Kennedy, who nearly began a nuclear war over missiles on foreign land? Reagan?
No, it would not have been a serious problem; it would simply have been taken down upon sighting it. As it should have been this time as well, but wasn't and is now perusing half the country.Yes, my point too. I for one feel it's time to take note (long overdue0 what this president's agenda includes.. Thus far hewants Ameiicans to look the other way and not admit to ourselves that we have open borders, and he has even now an apt that will allow 30,000 more immigrant to fly in walk in whatever they choose. This adds to the enormous number that just walk in each month... This is a fact
It is now a fat that he let a chines craft/balloon that they are maneuvering across our states. That's a fact ...
No matter what anyone says, these are facts. I will never under any circumstance say otherwise. Just not willing to join the dead
heads in our currently not concerned about our country flailing and becoming something that is unrecognizable.
I am actually proud to say --- I have made it through the past two years, and have not turned my head into the smoke.
As I have said, and will continue saying this despicable man needs to be impeached, and now.
None of our past presidents would have let this occur. None, perhaps Obama. I my view he planted the ugly seed we are now seeing sprout.
Really, Trump? I am not interested in your diversion. That crap is really getting old. Suprised you would try to use the "let's divert to Trump ploy". Oh well...
If you find my view needs facts I suggest you watch the pentagon pressor. And not sure if you fully noted my comment was aimed at Mike, and my view was lightly pointing out a correlation to his thread subject. My view is my own, I owe you nothing more.
As a rule, I don't find your views pausable, I share my thoughts and call it a day.
Yes, I do frequently add links when I feel I need to back up facts. My comment to Mike was my view. I reread my comment and I have not found anything I feel needs a source. If you find a mistruth (other than my sarcastic opinion) please offer the quote. I actually have put together a thread, where I offer facts, and links to Biden's new mess.
At any rate, I don't feel I will participate in hijacking this
thread. I think Mike will see the point I was making in regard to his subject.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCGL8TJhh6gNo need to get in a tizzy, just expressing an opinion.
In my view, this is very much something that one gets in a tizzy about. This president factually let Chinese maneuverable craft that we have no idea what is inside of. This decision was made by the Biden period. Enough said.
And you know Trump would have never let this happen --- never."And you know Trump would have never let this happen --- never."
Sharlee, You took me to the "woodshed" over bringing Trump into the conversation, now you bring him up?
And I can't say if Trump would have done anything outside of rattle sabers and make the situation worse, as he usually did.Let me remind you, it was you who brought in Trump.
Trump never had the need to rattle sabers. No one did zip when he was in the White House. We were not at war with Russia, and Ukraine was not a proxy battleground.
I feel Trump would have never let Russia even build up troops on the Ukraine border, and if they did, he would have pushed back, and not ever watched civilians be killed by Russian troops. He show strength and used great common sense when making decisions.
He never made any conflict worse, he avoided conflict.
Again -- This president factually let Chinese maneuverable craft that we have no idea what is inside of. This decision was made by the Biden period.
I noted you have nothing to say on that subject...
Many would go to pieces. I would hate to witness this. There are some who are so coddled that they would go to absolute pieces. Those who had some ups & downs in their lives would be able to handle it.
I know difficult situations define exactly who people are inside. I'm sure there would be people who have led charmed lives step up and do incredible things. There are others who you would expect to stand up that fall to pieces. Such a situation is a defining moment for people, a culture, a society as well as a people.
I would hate to see it also. The situation with China does scare me. The United States and its Asian allies have pledged to protect Taiwan, this could be bad.
China Is Preparing for War, Retired General Warns
https://www.newsweek.com/china-preparin … ns-1770645
We understand what you're asking. people in war and facing these issues.
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