Mr. President, who are you to denigrate WWII allies participation?
excerpt from Atlantic Monthly:
So this is a time of commemoration, and in this time, the president of the United States, Donald Trump, issued a very strange post about the event on the 8th of May. He wrote:
“Many of our allies and friends are celebrating May 8th as Victory Day, but we did more than any other Country, by far, in producing a victorious result on World War II. I am hereby renaming May 8th as Victory Day for World War II and November 11th as Victory Day for World War I. We won both Wars, nobody was close to us in terms of strength, bravery, or military brilliance, but we never celebrate anything—That’s because we don’t have leaders anymore, that know how to do so! We are going to start celebrating our victories again!”
Now, that post was such a perfect crystallization of the Trump style: bombast, boast, all of it making Trump himself the center of a story that he had nothing whatsoever to do with. The statement is unwise and unattractive in all kinds of other ways too. It denigrates the sacrifices and heroism of others. And it turns the tragedy and horror of war into a triumphant narrative that was completely alien to almost all the people who experienced it as nothing but a tale of suffering and waste and cruelty and misery.
I want to draw attention to something maybe less obvious about what is wrong—what is missing—from the president’s statement. The first is, as so often when Donald Trump talks about American military history, he emphasizes power and success and triumph and military genius, but always lacking is any mention of the values for which Americans fought. America didn’t go into World War II—or even World War I—to be top nation, to beat and dominate others. It went to defend things that Americans regarded as precious, and not only Americans but others too—and one of the measures of how precious those values were, not only to Americans and to others, but to the world that has grown up as a result of the war.
————
This draft dodger has the gall to speak of heroism? The Soviet Union fought the Nazis and bore casualties that we could not imagine. What about England keeping a stiff upper lip as the last holdout against capitulation to the Nazis. What about the millions sent to camps and partisans fighting behind the scenes in occupied countries at great danger to themselves. All of this goes right over the head of this gold plated coward. I would not think that anyone would have the gall to utter such things in an international forum. I am getting tired of his habit of renaming things while having no real understanding nor appreciation of history. He is functionally illiterate as far as I am concerned.
Now he wants to spend tax payers money on some sort military ‘pass in review” parade often employed by tyrannical leaders merely to stoke their ego. I abhor this man more with each passing day.
But again, right wing America, this is who you voted for, not exactly a profile in courage.And the alternative was.... ?
We are here with Trump as President... a second time... why exactly?
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/rpY7GJnIQKgNicely scripted stuff, Ken, but it won’t do. It still does not address why Trump says so many stupid things this one being one of the greatest My attitude is that anyone, anything is better than Trump.
Yeah... and we saw that play out...
The whole... anything is better than Trump...
Clearly more than half the voting populace disagrees...
And the thing "your side" has come up with to get voters to choose them is?
What exactly is it... Open Borders...DEI... Trans Rights... Online Censorship... spending trillions more every year than is taken in???
What is it that Americans are supposed to buy into?
YOU were up at bat for the last 4 years... YOU gave Americans 25% inflation... 8% interest rates on Home Loans... and World War III...
So I don't think the majority cares about Trump's babbling statements... I don't think they care that you, or anyone else, is outraged or incensed by anything he says or does... to your group or any other group...
Plenty of People were willing to give the Democrats one more chance to make good... and instead we got Biden and the fleecing of the Middle Class... and Open Borders... and more Wars...No, Ken, I care about what the man says that is supposed to represent the country. We are waiting for the midterms and Trump inevitable screw up to be rid of him. Trump and his impeding dumpster fire will change minds fast, we are seeing it already.
The other half that did not vote for Trump still has a voice and those voices will grow all the louder as people see what Trump REALLY IS. I am counting on it.The "other half" includes 90 million who didn't vote at all. MAGAs like to forget that.
But I will concede it is a blight on both parties. In the meantime, I'd think MAGAs would have an astronomical crick in their necks from looking the other way.The "other half" includes 90 million who didn't vote at all. MAGAs like to forget that
When more of the actual reality and threat of Trumpism comes to light, maybe, just maybe, the apathetic attitude will go out of style for the so many that did not participate in 2024."The "other half" includes 90 million who didn't vote at all. MAGAs like to forget that"
Who cares?
You assume they would have voted democrat. I assume they would have voted Republican and made President Donald Trump's margin of victory even larger.
Seriously?
Reality Check needed.Mike, I honestly feel that Trump is once again doing a solid job of getting things done and working hard to follow through on his promises. It’s clear that many people dismissed those promises as typical campaign rhetoric. I mean, who really thought he’d nearly shut down the border, launch a serious tariff war, try to renegotiate a nuclear deal with Iran, or pursue peace efforts around the world? And yet, here we are. I don’t understand how anyone didn’t expect him to go to Washington with the intent to shake things up and actually fix problems, even if that meant blowing up the status quo. If I thought he was failing, I’d be the first to say it. I’m a realist. But right now, I think he’s on a roll. Frankly, I’m shocked by how much he’s tackled. It’s getting hard to even keep up with it all.
There is no assumption that these people would have voted Democrat. But what we do know is they were not motivated to get up off their couches. They may have very different feelings today though and found their motivation.
"But what we do know is they were not motivated to get up off their couches. " willow
In the last two elections, we saw uber motivation... It was satisfying to see so many come out and vote.
The 2024 U.S. presidential election did not break the record for the highest voter turnout in American history. While the turnout was notably high, it fell short of surpassing the record set in 2020.
According to the U.S. Census Bureau, approximately 65.3% of eligible voters cast ballots in the 2024 election, totaling about 154 million votes. This was a slight decrease from the 67% turnout in 2020, which remains the highest in recent history.
I would say people came out "Biggly" in the last two elections. Which is great. It shows more Americans are taking voting more seriously.
"YOU were up at bat for the last 4 years... YOU gave Americans 25% inflation... 8% interest rates on Home Loans... and World War III..."
We didn't give you a convicted felon with the accompanying temperament.And you think people who are out there working for a living give a crap about "convicted felon"???
If you aren't living paycheck to paycheck... then you don't have a clue what 25% inflation does to make life a lot harder.
If you aren't a young person trying to comprehend paying more to interest on a home than the principle itself... then you don't really grasp the impact of 8% interest on a Home Loan.
There are a lot of Americans that do feel the pain of 25% inflation and do send their kids to schools with 50% of students unable to speak english... so many things regular Americans are facing that those who have the time to contemplate the commentary from CNN and read the articles in the NY Times have no comprehension of nor need to contend with.
That is why you have no idea how Trump can still be so popular, especially with the salt-of-the-earth types that civilization depends on to continue functioning... because you don't understand their burdens and struggles and how EVERYTHING the Biden Administration did made life harder for those people... pretty much across the board and in ways even I didn't think they could/would be assaulted."Trump can still be so popular, especially with the salt-of-the-earth types that civilization depends on to continue functioning... because you don't understand their burdens and struggles"
You don't even know me. I am a total stranger to you. But that doesn't keep you from making your presumptions, does it?
I'll admit that my knee-jerk reaction to his comments was that of, "ick."
I prefer my leaders to stand silent and imposing during such things. We don't need to express our greatness, we simply are. It's a historical social rule that you let your actions speak for themselves, and let others boast on your behalf where they feel it appropriate.
That being said, I wish it wasn't so taboo to discuss the heroic deeds of German military defectors during WWII and the horrible things that were done to them as they helped people escape. It's an all-around sour topic.
Pretty sure Trump is just memeing at the expense of his nation's reputation at this point.“I prefer my leaders to stand silent and imposing during such things. We don't need to express our greatness, we simply are. It's a historical social rule that you let your actions speak for themselves, and let others boast on your behalf where they feel it appropriate.”
Kyler, this statement constitutes the epitome of my view on this matter and on most others. Let others be motivated by your fine example and be inspired to follow your lead. That is not in existence in current times. I could use an education on the existence of German military defectors and their roles during the war.
What Trump says was simply tactless, dumb and uncalled for, why am I not surprised?I had a friend who started my journey down the rabbit hole of suppressed information on German military defectors, we shall call him Timmy, and I'll tell you about his relevant ancestry and their tale in as brief a manner as I can.
Timmy and his family are/were under the protection of the USA, and have been so since the end of WWII. His great grandfather was serving in the SS as a high-ranking NCO. Timmy granted me access to his family's collection of journals, medals, gear, and missives collected from the war and I learned of a suppressed truth I'd never heard of until I read these documents.
For the sake of brevity and not revealing too much: Timmy's great grandfather served in the SS, and held a notably high rank. He often expressed concern in his writings that the war was not going to go in Germany's favor, and he was opposed to much of what he was being made to do to ethnic Germans (Jews included). There was a clear disconnect between his principles and the orders he was receiving.
His missives to leadership caught the attention of several Sturmscharführer, and one was directly supportive of his concerns to the point they had an ongoing discussion about how to save as many folks as they could from the war. After several years of forming connections and plotting out routes, small tests of his plans, he decided it was time to flee Germany with his wife and a considerable number of individuals slated for what would most likely have been death by disease or starvation in a camp. They set out in the evening during an American ground assault, and the Germans were leveling territory just around every corner.
Sadly, they all ended up being caught by the Americans and tortured in a camp. Most of them would succumb to their injuries, including his wife of the time who was raped by several Americans before being beaten to death in front of him. He recalled the moment he resolved himself to live by stating, "I knew I had to live, and the only way to do so was to let them beat my face. 'Just keep your head up as they beat you,' I told myself, knowing from my training that my face could be repaired, but I would not survive my brain being destroyed."
He was permanently disfigured by the Americans and his wife raped and beaten to death in front of him before they discovered his rank and role during interrogations. Upon discovery, he recalls a grizzled officer taking pity on him, and then from there I've sworn not to discuss further details of his subsequent assimilation into the USA under the protection of our government. It wasn't until after the war that he was able to recover much of his personal journals and missives, and it wasn't until after his death that his now-American family learned his tale.
I used this knowledge as a starting point for learning about German defectors, mostly out of skepticism, and it has lead me to question the surrounding narrative of WWII to a greater degree than I would have had I continued with being content with what was already being taught. Sadly, Timmy and his family disappeared one day after inviting me to tag along on their journeys. They offered to adopt me into their family, send me to a prestigious European college alongside Timmy where we were to study our STEM fields we were going to enter into and excelling in at the time, and I refused out of fear... but one day not soon after the offer we went to go visit him and they had just disappeared with no warning.
I've tried to track them down using various methods, but even the names attached to their previous addresses are all different people and entities that don't provide a lick of clarity. I miss him, and I feel like I never truly got the time to explore their tales in a way they deserve to be explored. Granted, they were also openly opposed to the company I kept in my friend circle and this pushed Timmy away from me prior to their departure.
Maybe one day the government will be more open and honest about things such as this, one can hope.Was it gifted insight? Why did this German officer predict that the war was not going to be in Germany’s favor? Did he make the prediction prior to it being evident after the war progressed or did he make it early after, just curious? How did he deal with the moral quandary while being an SS officer, the SS being the most feared part of the German military machine.
The victors write the history and conceal what was clearly information that the guys in the White hats don’t want to own up to. Such behavior was no better than than what sent so many Nazi leaders to the gallows at Nuremberg. It was similar to Lt. Calley during Vietnam and the 1968 Mi Lai massacre, brutality is a common trait of men at war.
I can only imagine why the necessary stealth in the “family” behavior after so long, all the relevant characters are dead or almost so. I have a 16 book time life edition focused on WWII in all of its aspects and there was never any discussion of these things. They, the government withholds information, because you would be outraged if the “truth” were brought forth as it would pose a threat to their power and preeminence . The Kennedy assassination was one of those examples. The government being more candid about things that its survival depends on keeping secret? I would not hold my breath waiting for it.
While studying with Jehovahs Witnesses, my guide was a man who was a foot soldier in the Wehrmacht during the last 2 years of the war at 17 years old. And once he was done with my spiritual lesson, he would tell me about his experiences during the waning years of World War II. He said that he never shot anyone and I believe him. He was the Sgt. Schultz, candy bar type. He still lives and may well make 100 years by 2027.I don't want to give any timelines, but from his writings it seemed that he became disillusioned with the war effort when they would not allow him to be closer to his wife and continued to move him to further postings that posed more questions than it gave him answers he was seeking. It was when his wife instead moved to be close to him that he seemed to lose his zeal toward the effort, and began to be conscious of the long-term effects the war would have. Once he and his wife started facing regular questioning concerning the company they kept, he really began to see things from a long-term losing perspective.
I'd say he was actively questioning things the entire time, trying to justify things but combined with a constant pepper of skepticism. His family was involved in the military prior to the war, and great grandfather taken into the SS earlier on. He believed, and continued to believe in the underlying sense of altruism around what he'd done, but he couldn't balance the false altruism with what he was having to do to people. He was insistent that there was a better, less violent way to achieve the dream of the Reich, and of course he was concerned that his wife was going to disappear.
In the end, he died a broken man concerned for the future of Germany.
As for why the family retains protection from the US government, that was something that fuels my curiosity to this day. It seems mostly unnecessary, but on the other hand they were all very fervent about their support of the underlying goals of the Reich. Their family culture was centered around much of the values held in Germany during the war, but with less genocidal desire.
I've had the chance to speak to a few pilots from back in those days. Always fascinating folk, even those who never fired a single round. Just overall a different time, culture, and mindset on all levels.
Do you have a source for any of this information or just the word of this friend?
I ask because I lived in Germany for three years in the 80s and I remember some of the men my husband worked with in the German army who talked about how horrible the war was. "An American pilot killed one of my grandfather's cows." is an example they gave from personal experience. "That war ruined our country." was often said with no mention of the eight million people they dragged from their homes and killed.
There are horrible stories that come out of wars with no way to know if they are true or not. And governments are rarely open and honest about them.The source was more so the journals and missives, and less so word of mouth from my friend and his family, that I'm using as reference for the information. I wrote much of it down verbatim in a journal of my own for further research, as well as took a few pictures of documents that were too long to write by hand. Their pride in the German war effort, and subsequently their shaming of me for the company I kept, made me stay a proverbial arm's distance away from any information excluding the documents.
Though the documents seem authentic for the times, much of it written in standard high German with a tone representative of the era and some of it bearing official seals, I still maintain my skepticism. However, I'm also skeptic towards my skepticism because of comparing and contrasting what I could and could not confirm from the journals. I feel like most of the history behind WWII, especially from a German perspective, has been destroyed and/or sits desolate in wealthy oligarchs' vaults like a trophy.Thank you for your reply. I was just curious because of my own experience.
You are a very interesting individual... or a very good storyteller/writer...
Both perhaps...
Not the first time I have read a post of yours and found myself engrossed in the topic and perspective...It's most certainly a flavorful combination of storytelling and presenting as interesting. In truth, I just absorb information like a sponge, filter out what isn't relevant or more so what I think is boring, and regurgitate it in an attractive way, or I try to.
My grandfather once told me after a riveting tale of his time as an acting chief of police, "Kyler, never let the truth get in the way of a good story. You'll notice my stories get better every time I tell them," before letting out a hearty laugh and going back to his cherry chocolate tobacco pipe and cleaning his favorite .38 snubby.
Though I go to great lengths to remain honest, I spice things up with a bit of sensationalism that doesn't detract from the truth while also making it more palatable. My grandfather took great pride in his ability to regale stories and capture a crowd, and his words on the matter have stuck with me to this day.
I appreciate the recognition, and I look forward to further conversations. I always like your perspectives, and where I don't I see they're more often based in a solid foundation than just being based in emotion.
Yes, the Russians bore the brunt of World War II in terms of suffering & casualties. The Russians lost over 20 million dead in World War II through killings, murders, imprisonment as POWs, in concentration camps, & as slave laborers. Part of World War II was fought on Russian soil. The Russians suffered immensely during World War II.
The Soviet Union would not have been able to defeat the Nazis if it weren't for the material support of the United States between 1941 and 1945.
The United States gave the Soviet Union many things.
400,000 jeeps & trucks
14,000 airplanes
8,000 tractors
13,000 tanks
1.5 million blankets
15 million pairs of army boots
107,000 tons of cotton
2.7 million tons of petrol products
4.5 million tons of food
This is just another reason why the United States won World War II.
I completely understand the frustration behind that comment, and I can even agree with some of the points. As someone who voted for Trump, I don’t blindly support everything he says or does, This is one of those moments where I disagreed with him. I believe that every nation that fought to overcome Hitler deserves equal recognition. The sacrifices made by the Soviet Union, the United Kingdom, and the countless individuals in resistance movements across occupied Europe were immense. The Polish citizen resistance army, in particular, showed incredible courage, fighting against impossible odds, often without sufficient support, and suffering brutal retaliation. When I speak of the “cost” of that war, I’m not talking about finances, I’m talking about the human cost. The loss of life, the families destroyed, the suffering endured by soldiers and civilians alike. That weight was not borne by the United States alone, and to suggest otherwise is, frankly, wrong.
That said, I think I understand what Trump was trying to get at, even if his delivery missed the mark. He often speaks from a place of wanting Americans to feel proud of their country, something that resonates with a lot of people who feel patriotism has been watered down or ignored. But pride should never come at the expense of truth or by ignoring the values we fought for. We didn’t enter World War II to dominate or show off our might, we fought for freedom, justice, and to protect the innocent. That’s what truly made our role meaningful.
I don’t agree with everything Trump says, but that doesn’t mean I, or others who voted for him, lack values or critical thinking. We all weigh different issues, and sometimes we accept what we don’t like in one area because we believe in the bigger picture in another.
So, yes, I disagreed with his statement about Victory Day. I wish he had acknowledged the broader Allied effort, including the immense sacrifice and bravery that all showed.Let’s face it, Sharlee, it was a tactless comment. Someone lacking prudence in so sensitive an area for so many I would not give a great deal of confidence concerning other matters.
I would have to say many of the allies in World War I & II were also responsible for the start of those wars.
In World War II, the United States was the only country able to have military victories on more than one continent, more than one ocean. It was the industrial power of the United States that produced the majority of the weapons of war.
Yes, the United States won World War II. England almost lost its army at Dunkirk. France had been overrun by the Nazis. Italy was unable to do much because of being ruled by a dictator. Nazis could have actually taken over Europe if it wasn't for the United States.
While fighting the war in Europe, the United States also fought and defeated the Germans in North Africa.
The United States brought its military might to cause victory in Europe, it also was fighting and winning the war in Asia. It was the United States who took the islands of Guam and others. It was the United States who defeated the Japanese in the Philippines. It was the United States who defeated Japan.
Yes, the United States won World War II because of its industrial and military strength.
President Donald Trump is absolutely correct.
It's time for a history lesson.No, Mike, I am aware of military history. Trump is wrong as he is about virtually everything else.
Ignorant thoughts lead to ignorant comments, am I going to assume that his actions are going to be any different?
However, to each, his own. I say the man is a jerk, contrary to your opinion.President Donald Trump is right when he says the United States won World War I and World War II.
He is right to make it a day of celebration for the United States.
Most on the left suffer from TDS and are unable to see how he is right about many things.Trump is on a tour in the Middle East, working to attract more investment to America and hoping to snag 1 trillion.
Joe, as more books roll out, not looking too good for those that hide his sad decline.
Touche Sharlee. We will see how this pans out. His personal / family business entanglements with these nations cast doubts and ethics concerns. He has plans for properties in all three nations he's visiting. While the true value of Saudi and other Gulf Arab states’ investments in the US economy has always been hazy, their deals with Trump’s family business and its foreign partners are far more tangible.
But the most troubling behavior is the acceptance of huge gifts from foreign leaders. A jet from Qatar. A crypto deal from the UAE. Zero benefit for Americans?
I don't know, is the visit about diplomacy or the family business?All we can do now is watch how it plays out. I don’t dig into Trump’s or his family’s business ventures—it's too complex and layered. What I do believe is that Trump, or anyone close to him, can barely sneeze without ending up in court. And by the way, I loved that picture! I used to share photos all the time, but fell out of the habit. But you know, girlfriend—I had to swipe back for that one.
How is a free jet to replace Air Force One of zero benefit for Americans? Will we now have to buy another one to please those that don't like the gift?
Well there is the matter of that pesky Constitution...
The gift of a jumbo jet from Qatar to Trump is considered a violation of the Constitution primarily because it breaches the Foreign Emoluments Clause....
The jet offered by Qatar is reportedly valued at around $400 million, making it an extraordinarily lavish gift that far exceeds any minimal value typically allowed under federal gift laws.
Also...There has been no congressional approval for this gift, which is a constitutional requirement. Acceptance of the jet without Congress's consent would therefore be unlawful.According to the news story I watched, your imagination is at work again, for the jet is a gift to America, not Donald Trump.
Further checking results in little additional information that makes sense. It is to Trump...but Trump won't own it. The Presidential library will. Or the DOD will, take your choice. The gift is temporary only, or it is forever, take your choice again.
So you may be right...or you may be completely off base. Further information is needed.He should steer clear of potential ethics violations. Plus no one has talked about the time and cost in totally dismantling this plane for security reasons.
What ethics violation? A gift to the US is not a violation of anything. Just something you've made up.
I think the far larger problem is that it doesn't matter what Trump does, those with TDS will claim it is evil and wrong.
I have disagreed with presidents - both ones I voted for and against. I have admired presidents as persons but disagreed with everything they did (Bush I). I have not admired presidents I voted for but agreed with their policies (Clinton).
But I have never been ashamed of a president because he was immoral without a single redeeming trait - until 2016 and more so now. We knew what he was. We were told by every person who worked for him.
The reason he picked unqualified people for his cabinet is because all his qualified staff last time spoke out against him. Now he only wants people who don't know any better.
And, yes, a majority of voters (not Americans but voters) put him back in office. Shame on them. But more shame on those Americans who did not vote at all. These 100 days are exactly what the next three years and nine months are going to be like. We were warned.I could not have said it better….
“Trump is a classic bully who craves submission and fears conflict. His fervent supporters want him to be Michael Corleone, but he’s more like Biff Tannen. Standing up to Trump does not mean that you win. But giving in guarantees that you lose.”
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