Expectations of citizenry is up in the air. Trump & Putin talk.

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   tsmogposted 6 weeks ago

   Clash of Ideals: Liberty, Democracy, and the Fog of Partisan War
   
   Maybe a little late, but, hey, why not get it out there. Today, Friday August 15th Trump meets with Putin to discuss this and that. Hints have been given what those may be, yet it will be after their meeting we will get the lo-down on some of the details. Trump has hopes, Putin has hopes, and so does Zelenskyy. And, so do we as a nation.
   
   As Russia presses its authoritarian boot against Ukraine’s fledgling democracy, a quieter battle unfolds at home: the American soul wrestling with its own ideals. Liberty and democracy—once shared lodestars—now fracture along partisan fault lines. A recent Pew study lays bare this divide, revealing not just differing views on foreign policy, but divergent understandings of what it means to be free, to govern, and to stand for others. In the graphics and numbers, we glimpse a deeper question: Can a nation divided in its vision still serve as a beacon for those fighting to be free?
   
   How Americans view the Trump administration’s approach to the Russia-Ukraine war presented by Pew Research (Aug 14, 2025)
   https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads … raine-war/
   
   
   
   
   ** Do you think the meeting between Trump and Putin will reflect your hopes and concerns for resolving the Russia-Ukraine conflict—or reveal deeper divides in how we define peace and justice?
   
   ** What does liberty mean to you in today’s America—and does our response to Ukraine’s struggle mirror that meaning?
   
   ** Can a nation fractured by partisan visions still serve as a moral compass for others seeking freedom and self-rule? Or must we first reconcile our own ideals before we speak for them abroad?
   
   Thoughts, accolades, criticisms, and/or commentary?

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      Sharlee01posted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

      "Do you think the meeting between Trump and Putin will reflect your hopes and concerns for resolving the Russia-Ukraine conflict, or reveal deeper divides in how we define peace and justice?"
      
      After yesterday’s meeting, I was encouraged. I saw it as proof that the door to peace hasn’t been slammed shut. Trump was clear that this is not our war, and that is the truth many politicians refuse to admit. Yet, he’s still stepping up, trying to get Putin and Zelensky together at the same table. That alone gives me hope, because unlike endless military aid packages, it shows leadership focused on results, not on keeping the conflict going. Some will say it reveals divides in how we define “peace and justice,” but to me it shows Trump is willing to push past those divides. Justice doesn’t come from dragging this out, it comes from saving lives and preventing further destruction.  It’s been many years since I’ve felt this proud of a president. Yesterday, Trump finally stepped up and showed real leadership by making a serious attempt to bring an end to this war. It's odd that no one ever approached the question of why no one has tried before Trump.
      
      "What does liberty mean to you in today’s America—and does our response to Ukraine’s struggle mirror that meaning?"
      
      Liberty today means the right to put America first, to protect our borders, safeguard our economy, and ensure citizens are free from government overreach. In many ways, our response to Ukraine has not mirrored that meaning. Billions are being spent overseas while many Americans feel abandoned, whether it’s veterans, workers, or families struggling with inflation. Trump understands that liberty isn’t just about speeches; it’s about prioritizing our people’s well-being. That doesn’t mean turning our back on Ukraine, it means helping in ways that encourage peace rather than endless war, while not sacrificing our own freedoms or prosperity at home.
      
      "Can a nation fractured by partisan visions still serve as a moral compass for others seeking freedom and self-rule? Or must we first reconcile our own ideals before we speak for them abroad?"
      
      Right now, America is fractured, no doubt about it. But the truth is, the world still looks to us, not because we’re perfect, but because we’re strong when we have leaders who put our country’s interests first. Trump proves that you can serve as a compass without having to solve every internal argument. In fact, focusing on strength at home, rebuilding trust in elections, securing the border, reviving the economy is part of how we regain moral authority abroad. I don’t think we need to wait until every partisan fight is healed before speaking up for freedom. But we do need to show that we practice what we preach: sovereignty, security, and accountability.

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         tsmogposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

         Sharlee, I appreciate the clarity and conviction in your response—especially your emphasis on leadership that seeks resolution over prolongation. There’s much to reflect on in what you’ve shared.
         
         On the question of liberty, I find myself pausing. I have been exploring liberty of late, so appreciate your input. You touched on it, but I wonder if we sometimes conflate liberty with nationalism. Is liberty merely the freedom to prioritize ourselves—or is it also the freedom to choose how we relate to others?
         
         From a national lens, I’m wrestling with this:
         
         Who or what places obstacles before our liberty—both in its negative form (freedom from interference) and positive form (freedom to act meaningfully)?
         
         Is it the world? The power brokers? History’s inertia? Those that hoard riches? Or something more transcendent?
         
         Would love to hear how others see this.
         
         Inspired I wrote this down to guide me tomorrow . . .
         
         Liberty stirs where the soul meets breath,
         A quiet gift not earned, but blessed.
         It gathers in circles where truth is shared,
         Builds in nations that choose to care.
         And when the world bows not to might, but to light,
         Liberty becomes prayer—walking upright.

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            Ken Burgessposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

            Can I ask... how is Afghanistan doing today?
            
            Did we bring it Liberty and Western Values?
            
            Was the sacrifice of all those lives and trillions of dollars worth it?
            
            How about Iraq... how is Liberty and Western values doing there?
            
            Syria?
            
            Libya?
            
            Is there any Nation in the world better off today for our military involvement over the last 30 years?
            
            As I noted 3 years ago now... Ukraine is just the next in line of nations used and abused by the lunatics that have been in control of our nation for far too long.
            
            Most Americans... as can be seen in replies here... and elsewhere in these forums, are a confused bunch... on the one hand there is a good amount of people trying to destroy everything that got America to where it is today, literally crapping all over "Western" values and what it took to build the world to the civilized state we are in...
            
            This dilemma is described to a good degree in this video... at the 19 minute mark:   https://youtu.be/dlZ7cw_9pvc?t=1140
            
            Modernist beliefs clashing with Post-Modernist... Christian values and morals clashing with Atheism.... Globalist agendas clashing with National Sovereignty... etc.
            
            On the one hand, we can't decide whether we want an Open Border society and to do away with Nation states (that will be the end of 'Middle Class' America and Liberty... trust me, there is no room for that nonsense in a Globalist, One World Government)... or whether we want to nation build and bring 'Democracy' to places like Iraq and Ukraine.
            
            America is at best Bi-Polar in how it is handling issues foreign or domestic... made worse by the fact that the bulk of Americans have no idea what is really going on, whether it be the war in Ukraine or the Dollar as the World's Reserve.
            
            Most Americans rely on our Main Stream Media... which is all lies and diversion, all the time, regardless of what channel is providing it... the illusion is there that there is a big difference between Fox and CNN... but none of them are telling you what is REALLY going on in Ukraine, or with the Economy and the Dollar and the ongoing global war we have with BRICS nations right now.

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               tsmogposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

               Firstly, Ken, thanks for the response. I believe the video you referenced is the same one you shared in another thread recently. I watched from the point you suggested. Frankly, I didn’t grasp all that was being said—there’s a lot packed in—and I plan to listen to the full video to better understand the context.
               
               On the topic of liberty, my aim was more inward-facing—toward the good ‘ole USA and the soul of its civic life—rather than its imperial reach. Still, your introduction of geopolitical forces offers food for thought. Perhaps it deserves its own thread?
               
               I sensed some frustration with the average Joe and Jill and their grasp of things. I probably fall into that category myself. I’m not sure what can be done about that. But as I suggested a while back—have you considered starting a podcast, launching a Substack, or getting involved locally? I imagine your reach could be far greater than here in HubPages.
               
               Don’t get me wrong—I learn from you and from everyone here. More than once, your posts have nudged me to dig deeper. So thank you for that.
               
               As for me, about two years ago I began writing my representatives—airing grievances, offering praise. I get their newsletters now. I know, I know its California, but hey that is where I live. I also started attending my city’s council meetings, mostly as an observer. It’s a small step, but it’s helped me feel more rooted in the civic soil I stand on.

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                  Ken Burgessposted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

                  Thank you.
                  
                  We all approach it from different perspectives for sure.
                  
                  I had my involvement when younger, worked on my first campaign when I was 16 for a State Rep, went to college for Political Science, joined the Army volunteered for every deployment I could.
                  
                  When I got out became a Director in a nonprofit, then went to another sat in meetings run by State officials met with heads of federal agencies.
                  
                  Been there, done that... got tired of the corruption the lies the fraud and waste.  Got tired of the blind who defended the ones screwing them over.
                  
                  If anything my participation here is a self reminder to stay out of it, as well as an opportunity to vent I suppose...
                  
                  I would have as much success in a Podcast as I had here when warning folks about the war in Ukraine and what suffering would come... Or about how Biden was the worst of all options and represented the most corrupt and evil elements regaining control of Washington...
                  
                  I convinced no one of anything ...but I do enjoy the occasional surprise post by you, Gus, etc that sends me researching something of interest.
                  
                  I'm for the day, soon to come I imagine, when I go to look in on these forums and they are no more.
                  
                  Then my venting and warning will be done. The dice have been thrown ...if Trump, Tulsi, RFK, etc don't shift our trajectory in a better direction no one else is on the horizon that will do so...
                  
                  Nor do I think there will be time for a course correction post 2028... It's now or never.
                  
                  [Edit] yes... Same link only timestamped to that moment... There is a deeper truth there he is touching on ...we have moved from a Modernist mindset where we believed that we were spreading a higher understanding and better civil society ...to a  Post Modern where there are no facts no truths and we despise, or at the very least, no longer believe in the Liberal Democratic Christian based system that created Western Civilization.
                  
                  We are at war with ourselves on such a deep level we cannot determine ANY common ground we all agree on... 72 sexes or 2.

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                  Ken Burgessposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

                  It mostly was what I felt was a good reply/response to what you asked:
                  
                  "Can a nation fractured by partisan visions still serve as a moral compass for others seeking freedom and self-rule? Or must we first reconcile our own ideals before we speak for them abroad?"
                  
                  He gave the answer in his explanation of why we fail... Why we have failed since, as he noted correctly, the late 60s early 70s.
                  
                  "If there is a truth, then the more we spread this truth to other civilizations the more we progress"
                  
                  "Having rejected the theological underpinnings of Modernity, of American or Western Values, - we have no clear idea of what we are doing, or are going to do, because we have no belief underpinning our actions"
                  
                  When you don't have the conviction of belief... when you go further and teach your population the country was/is evil, that it didn't bring civilization to a savage world it enslaved and destroyed... when marriage and family is subjugation and oppression..
                  When there are not 2 sexes there are 72... that a man who calls himself a woman must be treated as such and be given special privileges.
                  
                  This is why we won the battles but lost in Iraq. In Afghanistan. And will in Ukraine as well.  There is no conviction...no belief ...just greed, arrogance and power hungry lunatics trying to conquer the world when in reality they are bringing about nothing but suffering and tragedy.
                  
                  We have a 30 year track record showing just how good we are at winning battles and destroying nations... but we have no real belief in Western values or Democracy anymore... and that is why we have failed for 30 years abroad and here at home as our society collapses around us.

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                     Willowarborposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

                     Sort of difficult to really take any of this seriously when we have a group that follows a pathological liar.

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                     tsmogposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

                     Ken, I watched the video again. He talks so fast I had trouble grasping the finer points—there’s a lot packed in. I’ve pondered the warrior ethos on the international stage, but I’ll admit the complexity is beyond me. I know it’s your cup of tea; today, it’s not mine. As for connecting it to our internal struggles here in America, I found that challenging too, though I didn’t linger long on it. Domestic chores and adventures kept me moving—damn weeds, ha-ha.

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                        Ken Burgessposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

                        I know it's an acquired niche of interest... Not everyone's cup of tea.
                        
                        Super simplified...we no longer believe in Liberal Democracy nor the theological (Christian) values on which it is based.
                        
                        While we are programmed to chase the dollar, and corporate greed guides our government, and we have redefined Military dominance... We no longer have a soul... We no longer have conviction that is needed to remain the forger of civilizations to come... the future.
                        
                        We teach Americans to question their past, or to be ashamed of it, to question their sexuality, to question what is reality... There is no future in that ...that is the mindset of a civilization waiting to be conquered by something that does have conviction and beliefs and is willing to force it upon those who do not.

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   Kathleen Cochranposted 6 weeks ago

   tsmog: You're a poet. And a good one.
   
   "Liberty . . . builds in nations that choose to care."
   
   Who or what places obstacles before our liberty?
   
   Choosing not to care about anyone but ourselves. Someone once said, America will be great as long as it is good. When it stops being good, it will no longer be great.

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   Kathleen Cochranposted 6 weeks ago

   Who got us into Afghanistan and then Iraq by lying? Bush II
   
   Who screwed up the negotiations to get us out? Trump
   
   Was Vietnam better off for the 50,000 lives we invested in that country? In Desert Storm we applied the lessons hard learned in Vietnam. Then promptly forgot them.

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      Sharlee01posted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

      Regarding "who got us into the Afghanistan war and then the Iraq war"
      
      Congress has the ultimate word on Authorization for Use of Military Force.
      
      Congress overwhelmingly approved the Authorization for Use of Military Force (AUMF) in 2001, which gave President George W. Bush the legal authority to go to war in Afghanistan following the September 11 attacks. Here’s the breakdown:
      
      House of Representatives Vote (September 14, 2001)
      
      Total: 420–1 in favor
      
      Democrats: 205–1 in favor
      
      Republicans: 215–0 in favor
      
      Senate Vote (September 18, 2001)
      
      Total: 98–0 in favor
      
      Democrats: 48–0 in favor
      
      Republicans: 50–0 in favor
      
      This shows bipartisan support—essentially every Republican and nearly every Democrat voted in favor. The one House “no” vote came from Representative Barbara Lee (D-CA), who opposed authorizing military force.
      
      So yes, Congress explicitly approved Bush’s military action in Afghanistan through the AUMF.
      
      The Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq was passed prior to the 2003 invasion of Iraq, under President George W. Bush, and it was a separate congressional vote from the 2001 AUMF for Afghanistan. Here’s the breakdown:
      
      House of Representatives Vote (October 10, 2002)
      
      Total: 296–133 in favor
      
      Democrats: 81–126 against
      
      Republicans: 215–12 in favor
      
      Senate Vote (October 11, 2002)
      
      Total: 77–23 in favor
      
      Democrats: 29–21 against
      
      Republicans: 48–2 in favor
      
      Let me remind you, Biden had the final say on what actions to take regarding the war in Afghanistan. He was the president and could have done anything he felt fit.

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      DrMark1961posted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

      Who bombed Libya? Obama
      Who screwed up the withdrawl from Afghanistan? Biden
      Who got the US involved in Ukraine?
      
      I am not sure you have noticed but things have changed. The Democrats are no longer the peace party, and you are now on the side of the warmongers.

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         Sharlee01posted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

         I am glad you added this post.  As I thought more about the comment Kathleen posted, my memory stirred --- To claim that Bush lied us into Afghanistan and Iraq, and that Trump screwed up the withdrawal, is a political spin rather than fact. The war in Afghanistan wasn’t based on lies at all; it was a direct response to the 9/11 attacks, with the goal of dismantling al-Qaeda and removing the Taliban regime that harbored them. Congress, including Democrats, overwhelmingly supported the move. Iraq was more complicated, but again, it wasn’t simply Bush lying.
         
         The intelligence on Weapons of Mass Destruction turned out to be wrong, but at the time nearly every major intelligence agency worldwide, not just the U.S., believed Saddam might have them. Prominent Democrats such as Hillary Clinton, John Kerry, and Joe Biden voted in favor of authorizing that war. That was a bipartisan failure, not a single president deceiving the nation. 
         
         The Afghanistan War began under President George W. Bush. Not sure why Obama did nothing to bring peace to that nation. Nothing at all...
         
         As for the withdrawal,  it’s misleading to pin the chaos on Trump. His Doha Agreement laid out a conditional withdrawal in 2020, requiring the Taliban to meet security and counterterrorism obligations. The agreement was broken under Trump's last months in office. What happened in 2021 was that Biden chose to withdraw without enforcing any conditions, which led to the rushed evacuation and the Taliban takeover.
         
         Biden proved he could reverse many of Trump’s policies on day one in many other areas, so it’s clear he could have altered the course of withdrawal too; he just didn’t. In short, Afghanistan was entered because of 9/11, Iraq was the result of faulty global intelligence, and the disastrous exit rests on Biden’s execution, not Trump’s negotiations.
         
         It is very unfortunate that some facts are pushed to the side to support a narrative.  Like no other time in our history do we have facts at our fingertips.

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            DrMark1961posted 6 weeks agoin reply to this

            As  I recall Obama campaigned that he would end the war in Afghanistan. I guess it was just not that convenient to do so.

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   Willowarborposted 6 weeks ago

   Unfreaking believable... Tell me Putin doesn't own Trump...State run TV Russia Today published a video of a Russian tank on assault manoeuvres in Ukraine flying dual Russian and US flags....
   https://x.com/iSamirRoy/status/1957427644162871569

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      Readmikenowposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

      Don't fall for the vast amount of russian propaganda all over the place.
      
      russia's main news sources such as Pravada and Tass have always provided nothing state, run, russian propaganda.  Too many American news sources have pick it up and republished it as if it has a particle of truth.

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         Sharlee01posted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

         I mean, it was tasty food for those who like this kind of food. When I looked at the pic, I thought it was shopped.  And for the life of me, how could anyone associate the pic with Trump?  Go figure.

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            Willowarborposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

            This photo and many others flying our flag on Russian tanks have been verified by Grok... Certainly you're not questioning Elon

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               Sharlee01posted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

               "Willowarbor wrote:
               Unfreaking believable... Tell me Putin doesn't own Trump...State run TV Russia Today published a video of a Russian tank on assault manoeuvres in Ukraine flying dual Russian and US flags....
               https://x.com/iSamirRoy/status/19574276 … 1569"
               
               I can't share my personal feelings about your post, because it would be taken as unkind. So I will just ask these questions. I think the answers will share more than my own words.
               
               What would this flag or flags have to do with Trump? Did he send them to Russia? Did he ask that our flags be flown?  What does this have to do with Trump?

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                  Willowarborposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

                  Would it just be a coincidence that Trump bowed down to Putin in Alaska, APPLAUDED him like a seal... And our flags show up on Russian tanks killing Ukrainians... Why would someone applaud, with an ear to ear grin, a murderous dictator?

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                     Readmikenowposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

                     Again, I believe you have fallen for russian propaganda. 
                     
                     russians are very sophisticated at created false videos, images, and stories.  It is used to control their population.
                     
                     I would need to know the exact source to know if it is valid.  If it IS a real picture, I would feel confident is has been staged.
                     
                     Guess what?  Most russians don't like Americans.  The older russians REALLY don't like Americans.  The russian military absolutely despises America and Americans.

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                     Sharlee01posted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

                     "Would it just be a coincidence that Trump bowed down to Putin in Alaska, APPLAUDED him like a seal... And our flags show up on Russian tanks killing Ukrainians... Why would someone applaud, with an ear to ear grin, a murderous dictator?"   Willow
                     
                     No reply because your comment was built on things I did not recognize as having happened.      If someone wants to have a real debate, I’m open to it, but I’m not going to waste time arguing against exaggerations and made-up scenarios. Sticking to facts matters, and that comment didn’t.
                     
                     Stepping away out of politeness.

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                        Willowarborposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

                        You're not recognizing that the president of our country clapped for Putin?? 
                        https://x.com/KieraGorden/status/1956555318881874213

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                        Readmikenowposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

                        Shar,
                        
                        I would like someone, anyone, from the left to tell me the things that biden did to end the war between Ukraine and russia.
                        
                        What is it that biden did to create the possibility of peace?
                        
                        Waiting.

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                           Sharlee01posted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

                           Did Biden even say his threatening "Don't Don't Don't? I don't think he did...
                           
                           In a March 2021 interview with ABC News' George Stephanopoulos, President Biden stated, "I can say quite clearly: Don't come over."
                           
                           
                           
                           Biden did nothing; he showed weakness as Russia marched its troops to Ukraine’s border and then crossed into a sovereign nation without consequence. Just as Obama did nothing when Russia took Crimea, the inaction sent a dangerous message. I can only pray that this maniac Putin can be stopped; the situation is a true mess. Putin doesn’t care about lives lost—he only cares about taking land he believes belongs to Russia. Russia should have been confronted immediately the moment its forces crossed the border, with the full might of NATO ready to push them back decisively. Now, it seems the EU nations have woken up to the chaos they, along with the U.S., helped create. Their prior weakness contributed to this war, and it’s clear they are now turning to the U.S. for leadership in ending it. Trump is in an incredibly difficult position, and I give him immense credit for trying to bring peace. My God, if he fails, I can’t imagine what Putin might do next.

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                              Willowarborposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

                              "he showed weakness as Russia marched its troops to Ukraine’s border and then crossed into a sovereign nation without consequence
                              
                              What should he have done?  What consequence should he have put on?
                              
                              What do you want Trump to do after Putin ignores him?  I mean Putin turned around from Alaska and Russia launched almost 200 drones into Ukraine immediately.... It's like spitting in our face.

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                                 Sharlee01posted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

                                 Did you read my comment --- maybe read it, I said what I felt he should have done.

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                                    Willowarborposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

                                    You are suggesting he do something that he had no power to do? Command the forces of NATO?  What you are suggesting doesn't exist within its charter.
                                    
                                    So using the same logic then you want to see Trump push for all of NATO to have boots on the ground?  I suppose if he doesn't it'll be weakness?

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                                       Sharlee01posted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

                                       Not sure if you know, but the US is part of NATO. My comment was a view. In my view, as the context implies. To repeat---
                                       
                                       "Putin doesn’t care about lives lost; he only cares about taking land he believes belongs to Russia. Russia should have been confronted immediately the moment its forces crossed the border, with the FULL MIGHT of NATO ready to push them back." Shar
                                       
                                       Why would Trump be responsible for a war that was handled so poorly, where nothing meaningful was done to negotiate peace during the Biden years? Trump is doing what he said he would have done three years ago, negotiate for peace. It’s a bit late to erase three and a half years of killing and destruction. I watched as nothing was done, nothing, until Trump finally took up Biden’s/EU’s war.
                                       
                                       I feel I must also make mention that you have shown deep compassion for the human beings being killed and starved in Gaza, yet I have not heard a word from you about the human beings killed in this war, which has tallied into the millions. It would also seem you supported the Biden administration’s policy of doing nothing but supplying weapons to kill and aid for endless war. How can one justify that?
                                       
                                       And now, we have a president who is working to negotiate peace, yet all you have done is insult the manner he is using to try to bring Putin to the table. You mention really small, meaningless things like “he smiled at Putin”—and more. In my view, you have overlooked this man's deeds.
                                       
                                       You make no mention of the historic meeting Trump held yesterday, bringing heads of state to the table to share ideas and update them on his conversation with Putin. All were clearly grateful to be there, with Zelenskyy even publicly asking to be included in a meeting with Trump and Putin, assuming Putin might agree to meet with him.

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                                          Willowarborposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

                                          "Russia should have been confronted immediately the moment its forces crossed the border, with the FULL MIGHT of NATO ready to push them back."
                                          
                                          
                                          Where does that exist in the NATO charter?

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            Ken Burgessposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

            TDS. It's real... it's a sign of what nonstop propaganda consumption can do to a weak mind.
            
            Such obsessive nonstop focus should be evidence enough of an unhealthy, irrational, state of mind.

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               Willowarborposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

               Are we the only country, Ken, in the world that uses mail in voting?

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         Ken Burgessposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

         American news sources are just as guilty of such propaganda and deception. 
         
         As if we haven't had an abundance of proof of that lately.

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   Willowarborposted 5 weeks ago

   Sooo… Putin gets to keep bombing the heck out of Ukraine while Trump can keep delaying.. nothing has changed.
   No cease fire that would show good faith intentions by Putin.

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   Willowarborposted 5 weeks ago

   What is wrong with him??
   Trump blames Ukraine for getting invaded:
   
   "It's not a war that should've been started. You don't do that. You don't take on a nation that's 10 times your size ... they took probably a lot of money too."
   
   He doesn't understand why Putin invaded? Again, sheer  stupidity, or mental decline or he's just trying to help out his good buddy Putin?
   
   Russia  has only accelerated its offensive  under this Administration..
   
   Trump's mouth is basically a Russian glory hole at this point...
   https://x.com/atrupar/status/1957779155560419409

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      IslandBitesposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

      Yup. Every time he says " it would have never happened under me" you know what he means.
      He couldnt care less about Ukraine.
      
      He is a disgrace.

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         Willowarborposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

         I find it so odd that he continues to make that claim when Putin has done nothing but increase the number and intensity of its attacks on Ukraine since Trump took office.  So much for their great "relationship"

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   Willowarborposted 5 weeks ago

   Seven months in, Trump hasn't ended the war. Putin alone can stop the killing of innocent civilians. He holds all the cards, having invaded Ukraine, and only he can withdraw.. 
   
   The only way the war ends is when it becomes untenable to Putin.  Biden armed Ukraine which contributed to increasing pressure on Putin.  Trump on the other hand is trying to empower Putin.  That won’t lead to the cessation of hostilities.
   
   Putin could withdraw from Ukraine and end the war. Trump never pushes for that for some reason. He pushes for Ukraine’s surrender under the guise of peace.
   
   As far as hanging this on Biden?  He had no power over Putin, short of going to war.   And neither does trump

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   MG Singhposted 5 weeks ago

   I think, most people from the West have some idealistic notions. All the time blaming Vladimir Putin for the war is wrong. I can write a lot and justify Putin buy it will serve no purpose; so I will just leave it as it is.

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      Willowarborposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

      He rolled tanks into Ukraine... The war is Putin's fault 100%

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   Willowarborposted 5 weeks ago

   "A Russian missile slammed into an American electronics factory in a remote corner of far western Ukraine early Thursday, causing extensive damage and more than a dozen injuries, according to Ukrainian officials.
   
   The attack came as Russia carried out one of its largest airstrikes of the war, firing more than 570 drones and 40 missiles in an overnight barrage, according to the officials....
   
   Putin is just spitting in the face of America...
   
   Pick your source... Everyone's reported it.   So much for the great relationship between Trump and Vlad

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      Sharlee01posted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

      "Putin is just spitting in the face of America...
      
      Pick your source... Everyone's reported it.   So much for the great relationship between Trump and Vlad" Willow
      
      Who would be everybody?  I can match accolades from respected news outlets for every left media blurb.   No not pick ypur source, show your sources.

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         Willowarborposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

         Russian missiles hit US-owned factory in Ukraine https://share.google/rYC0Fkb4L7sb0s8OW
         
         Russia strikes global business in major Ukraine air attack and accuses Kyiv of blocking peace | Reuters https://share.google/y7fxPdQDS4WQZNpYn
         
         Russian Missiles Strike US Electronics Plant in West Ukraine - Bloomberg https://share.google/kue93xh2n17kccOXs
         
         Russian air attack on Ukraine strikes American plant - UPI.com https://share.google/x6ht3D0OnDRSzw2Ab
         
         Subscribe to read https://share.google/Q1xOkUUcdZK2DRzzN
         
         Russia bombs US factory in one of Ukraine war’s largest attacks https://share.google/ZuQizUUJAqnMcVFMv
         
         Russia strikes targets in western Ukraine, hits factory of NASDAQ-listed company | CBC News https://share.google/pzSM3v5XDiV7DzhBK
         
         Massive Russian attack hits American business near NATO borders in Ukraine | Fox News https://share.google/9yVGYpTH9i2IZL0dM
         
         Russia Ramps Up Drone, Missile Strikes in Wake of Peace Talks | Newsmax.com https://share.google/bxGdqIZCIUAJwx0FN
         
         Russia hits Ukraine with 'massive' drone, missile attack, Kyiv says - ABC News https://share.google/N6NX4eMLRhiRLml0W
         
         Putin is ramping up his efforts in Ukraine like we've never seen before

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            Sharlee01posted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

            "Putin is ramping up his efforts in Ukraine like we've never seen before" Willow
            
            Very true. Many of us said from the start that Ukraine had little real chance of winning a war against Russia, especially with a leader so determined to take control. Putin is now fully showing his strength, and if a peace deal can’t be reached, Ukraine could very likely be overrun. I’m not sure NATO has the appetite to fully push back and do what they should have done when Russia first moved into Ukraine.
            
            I remain hopeful that Trump and the EU can broker a peace agreement, but why would Putin stop now? If pressured, his attacks could become even more destructive. So far, no one has done much beyond supplying weapons, seemingly expecting him to surrender, but instead, he has escalated and grown more aggressive every day.
            
            The war, long ignored by Biden and NATO, has now grown too large to ignore. And suddenly, the responsibility is being framed as falling to Trump. Thank God he’s willing to step in and try to bring peace. Trump has made it clear he doesn’t see this as America’s war, and I give him credit for taking the initiative. I also notice NATO seems to have shifted its attitude, finally recognizing the threat is at their doorstep, and that stopping Putin won’t be easy.

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               Willowarborposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

               "Many of us said from the start that Ukraine had little real chance of winning a war against Russia, especially with a leader so determined to take control.
               
               What I remember most clearly is that folks on this forum said that Biden could have prevented it... There was absolutely no recognition of Putin's characteristics and ambitions. Now there is some sudden realization on the right that Putin is irrational?  There was no talk of Putin's "determination" whatsoever.  The talk that I remember centered around Biden being able to prevent Putin ambitions....
               
               Under Trump's watch, Putin has escalated this conflict significantly. 
               
               Bombing a business that has ties to the US is Putin giving the middle finger to our country.

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                  Sharlee01posted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

                  Hopefully you find others here that are interested in conversing --- Me, not into it.

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         Ken Burgessposted 5 weeks agoin reply to this

         If you are going to the negotiating table you want to have as strong a position as possible.
         
         You don't want to come across as weak or exhausted by the war... you want to appear as strong and capable of continuing it as ever.
         
         Russia is pushing forward on multiple fronts and the Ukrainian efforts to stop these advances have had minimal results.
         
         Drone and missile attacks striking new targets deeper into Ukraine also makes a strong statement.
         
         Russia's ability to blunt Ukraine's recent attack on Crimea minimizing the damage taken to a few unoccupied shacks on the coastline...
         
         Negotiate from a position of strength... Now is the time for Russia to appear as strong as ever, that way they get the most they can when negotiating an end to this war.
         
         Common sense... Ignore the blathering media... Use some critical thinking.

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    Ken Burgessposted 5 weeks ago

    Another good 18 min watch:
    The evolution of Western Civilization
    https://youtu.be/CY6HChRVeVc?si=LG7B3L5bDdt4ITBW
    
    Tocqueville had it right and we can see it today:
    https://youtu.be/jsM_sSGJua0?si=KVoTAbLo8Qwg_aS5

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