Trump, MAGA, and The Pledge of Alligiance

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   peoplepower73posted 13 hours ago

   There is a picture of Trump embracing the American Flag while wearing a MAGA hat. For me, this image symbolizes a contradiction. I’m not convinced he has ever truly reflected on the words of the Pledge of Allegiance. Let’s examine those words in detail:
   
   I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America...…
   
   Some observers note that Trump often frames political discourse in terms of personal loyalty to him, rather than to the nation as a whole. For example, in a 2019 speech, he told Republican lawmakers, “You’re not loyal to me, you’re not loyal to the country.
   
   Trump’s rhetoric often emphasizes division rather than unity among Americans. His comments after the 2017 Charlottesville rally, where he stated there were “very fine people on both sides,” and his labeling of critics as “enemies of the people,” have been cited as examples of fostering an “us versus them” mentality.
   
   And to the republic for which it stands...
   
   A republic is a system in which people have representation in government. Some critics argue that Trump’s leadership style resembles that of a monarch due to his approach to executive power. For instance, his use of executive orders to bypass Congress on issues like immigration, or his assertion of broad presidential powers during the impeachment proceedings, have prompted concerns about checks and balances among the branches of government.
   
   One nation under God…
   
   There are moments when Trump’s rhetoric takes on an almost messianic tone, such as when he proclaimed during the 2016 Republican National Convention, “I alone can fix it,” in reference to America’s challenges.
   
   With liberty and justice for all....
   
   Trump’s decision to pardon individuals involved in the January 6th Capitol attack, and his statements about the judicial system being “rigged” against him, have fueled debate about justice and equal treatment under the law. At the same time, the Supreme Court’s ruling granting former presidents immunity for certain official acts, and the delays in his criminal cases, have become focal points in discussions about accountability.

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      Ken Burgessposted 12 hours agoin reply to this

      Your perspective is not wrong.
      
      To say that Trump has a massive ego would not be an over statement IMO.
      
      It might be that we need ...someone so full of himself that nothing can shake his belief or resolve.
      
      To steer the Nation through these incredibly difficult times... To never flinch in the face of adversity, whether it comes from Democrats in Congress trying to impeach him or an assassins bullet just missing him.
      
      I don't know ... I can only hope... that he will guide us through the years ahead and avoid a world war that leaves hundreds of millions dead and suffering... that he finds a way around the economy collapsing into a deep Depression...
      
      He may be what America needs in this moment.
      
      Either way... He is what we got.

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   Sharlee01posted 10 hours ago

   I hear this argument a lot, and frankly, it misses the forest for the trees. Let’s start with the image: Trump hugging the American flag in a MAGA hat. You see contradiction, I see symbolism. For decades, we’ve had leaders who only paid lip service to patriotism while selling out the very people that flag represents. Trump’s embrace isn’t performative, it’s a statement: “I’m with the country, not the elite class that treats America like just another line on a balance sheet.”
   
   Now, on loyalty. Critics love to repeat that line, “You’re not loyal to me, you’re not loyal to the country.” But let’s put that in context. Trump wasn’t saying America = Trump. He was calling out Republicans who campaign on conservative values, cash in on voters’ trust, then stab their base in the back the second D.C. insiders snap their fingers. Was he blunt about it? Absolutely. But sometimes blunt truth is exactly what’s needed. Loyalty to the voters is loyalty to the country, and that’s what Trump was demanding.
   
   Charlottesville gets dragged up every time. Let’s be clear: the media deliberately twisted his words. He condemned neo-Nazis and white supremacists in the same breath. The “very fine people” comment was about those debating monuments, not extremists. But the left weaponized that line because it fit their narrative. Division? The division was already there. Trump didn’t create it, he exposed it.
   
   Now, about the republic and executive power. Funny how executive orders are tyranny when Trump uses them, but when Obama says, “I’ve got a pen and a phone,” it’s leadership. Let’s not pretend this is new. Every president uses executive authority when Congress drags its feet. Trump used it to secure the border, renegotiate trade, and stand up for American workers. That’s not monarchy, that’s representation of the forgotten class.
   
   “One nation under God.” Critics mock Trump for saying, “I alone can fix it,” but again, context matters. He was pointing out what millions of Americans felt: the ruling class on both sides had failed, repeatedly. Who else was going to call out NATO freeloaders, China’s trade abuse, or the globalist agenda hollowing out our middle class? No one. He wasn’t declaring himself messiah, he was saying he was willing to take the hits others wouldn’t. And he did.
   
   “Liberty and justice for all.” Let’s be honest: the two-tiered justice system didn’t start with Trump. It was exposed because of Trump. Hillary Clinton can bleach-bit servers and walk. Hunter Biden can rake in millions off shady foreign deals with little accountability. Meanwhile, Trump gets indicted over paperwork disputes and thought crimes. Pardon power? Every president uses it. Obama pardoned terrorists. Clinton pardoned his own donors. Trump pardoned people who were railroaded by a system stacked against them. That’s not corruption, it’s leveling the scales.
   
   The bottom line is this: Trump’s critics love to weaponize lofty phrases like “justice,” “republic,” and “unity” while ignoring the hypocrisy in their own camp. Trump didn’t desecrate the pledge of allegiance; he lived it out by putting America first when nobody else would. If anything, he reminded us that the flag isn’t a prop for speeches. It’s a promise to the people, and one he was willing to fight for when others only talked.
   
   And I will close with offering you some food for thought, simple, meaningful, and very clear about what Americans want. Trump won not once, but twice, even while being pelted with every bit of mud they could throw at him. So maybe, while you’re able to make your “Trump bad” list, you should pause and consider that bottom line. Because, despite everything, the people chose him.
   
   A side note ---  I always wonder when I see lists like yours about everything Trump supposedly did wrong. Why is it you never make a list of why your own party lost the election, or why it’s losing favor even among its own base? Why can’t you face those problems, talk about them openly, or even acknowledge them at all? Do you not notice how selective the conversation becomes, what you’ll bring up versus what you’ll completely avoid, as if you can’t bear to touch the failures within your own political party?

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      peoplepower73posted 7 hours agoin reply to this

      S-I hear this argument a lot, and frankly, it misses the forest for the trees. Let’s start with the image: Trump hugging the American flag in a MAGA hat. You see contradiction, I see symbolism. For decades, we’ve had leaders who only paid lip service to patriotism while selling out the very people that flag represents. Trump’s embrace isn’t performative, it’s a statement: “I’m with the country, not the elite class that treats America like just another line on a balance sheet.”
      
      M-Please name the leaders who have not been patriotic to their country. Trump is part of the elite class.  He has 13 billionaires working for him.  He gets mega donations from the elite class.
      
      S-Now, on loyalty. Critics love to repeat that line, “You’re not loyal to me, you’re not loyal to the country.” But let’s put that in context. Trump wasn’t saying America = Trump. He was calling out Republicans who campaign on conservative values, cash in on voters’ trust, then stab their base in the back the second D.C. insiders snap their fingers. Was he blunt about it? Absolutely. But sometimes blunt truth is exactly what’s needed. Loyalty to the voters is loyalty to the country, and that’s what Trump was demanding.
      
      M-You and I both know that Trump requires not only loyalty from his administration, but also, he likes them to lie to him to make him feel good. The head of the labor board was fired because she didn’t give him the numbers he wanted to hear.
      
      S-Charlottesville gets dragged up every time. Let’s be clear: the media deliberately twisted his words. He condemned neo-Nazis and white supremacists in the same breath. The “very fine people” comment was about those debating monuments, not extremists. But the left weaponized that line because it fit their narrative. Division? The division was already there. Trump didn’t create it, he exposed it.
      
      M-According to Politi Fact, he didn’t clarify his statemen until the next day, When a reporter asked him about the girl who was runover. It wasn’t in the same bresth.
      
      S-Now, about the republic and executive power. Funny how executive orders are tyranny when Trump uses them, but when Obama says, “I’ve got a pen and a phone,” it’s leadership. Let’s not pretend this is new. Every president uses executive authority when Congress drags its feet. Trump used it to secure the border, renegotiate trade, and stand up for American workers. That’s not monarchy, that’s representation of the forgotten class.
      
      M-I never said they were tyranny. Trump uses emergency executive orders for many of his policies so he doesn’t have to go through congress. Therefore, circumventing a branch of government.
      
      S-“One nation under God.” Critics mock Trump for saying, “I alone can fix it,” but again, context matters. He was pointing out what millions of Americans felt: the ruling class on both sides had failed, repeatedly. Who else was going to call out NATO freeloaders, China’s trade abuse, or the globalist agenda hollowing out our middle class? No one. He wasn’t declaring himself messiah, he was saying he was willing to take the hits others wouldn’t. And he did.
      
      M- I don’t believe that for minute. It is his ego talking.  This is what was actually said and when he said it. Donald Trump famously said “I alone can fix it” during his Republican National Convention acceptance speech on July 21, 2016, in Cleveland.
      
      The full quote was: “Nobody knows the system better than me, which is why I alone can fix it.”
      
      S-“Liberty and justice for all.” Let’s be honest: the two-tiered justice system didn’t start with Trump. It was exposed because of Trump. Hillary Clinton can bleach-bit servers and walk. Hunter Biden can rake in millions off shady foreign deals with little accountability. Meanwhile, Trump gets indicted over paperwork disputes and thought crimes. Pardon power? Every president uses it. Obama pardoned terrorists. Clinton pardoned his own donors. Trump pardoned people who were railroaded by a system stacked against them. That’s not corruption, it’s leveling the scales.
      
      M-Trump pardoned those who attacked the capitol on Jan. 6 because he wanted to rig the election with his own slate created by his fellow governors. He has successfully evaded any criminal charges levied against him by delaying, deflecting and distracting those charges.
      
      S-The bottom line is this: Trump’s critics love to weaponize lofty phrases like “justice,” “republic,” and “unity” while ignoring the hypocrisy in their own camp. Trump didn’t desecrate the pledge of allegiance; he lived it out by putting America first when nobody else would. If anything, he reminded us that the flag isn’t a prop for speeches. It’s a promise to the people, and one he was willing to fight for when others only talked.
      
      M-I didn’t say he desecrated the pledge of allegiance.  I said  I don’t think he gave those words any thought and what they stand for. He didn’t put America First.  He put MAGA first. By the way what do think a real American is?
      
      S-And I will close with offering you some food for thought, simple, meaningful, and very clear about what Americans want. Trump won not once, but twice, even while being pelted with every bit of mud they could throw at him. So maybe, while you’re able to make your “Trump bad” list, you should pause and consider that bottom line. Because, despite everything, the people chose him.
      
      M-People chose him because they didn’t know what they were getting.  In my book, he suffers from extreme narcissism and is a master con-artist.
      
      S-A side note ---  I always wonder when I see lists like yours about everything Trump supposedly did wrong. Why is it you never make a list of why your own party lost the election, or why it’s losing favor even among its own base? Why can’t you face those problems, talk about them openly, or even acknowledge them at all? Do you not notice how selective the conversation becomes, what you’ll bring up versus what you’ll completely avoid, as if you can’t bear to touch the failures within your own political party?
      
      M-We lost the election because Biden was in a stupor during the debate with Trump. And Harris did not have much time to campaign. I can face the problems. We don’t have MAGA and the community that it creates with merchandise, rallies, entertainment while denigrating the other side.
      
      We believe in a democratic republic, not an authoritarian dictator who wants to run a third term. Trump is a rare kind of person who wants to win no matter if he has to lie and cheat.  That coupled with his extreme narcissism and being a master con-artist makes him a winner. We will have to see how it all plays out. Thanks for dropping by.

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         Sharlee01posted 6 hours agoin reply to this

         Let’s unpack your points one by one. First, regarding patriotism and Trump being part of the “elite class”: naming the elite doesn’t automatically make someone unpatriotic. Trump may have wealthy associates or receive donations, but his policies and actions consistently aimed to prioritize American workers, renegotiate unfair trade deals, and secure borders, things that directly benefit the country, not just the elite. Wealth in his circle does not erase loyalty to America.
         
         On the claim about loyalty and lying to him: leaders who cater only to political correctness or fear of reprisal often fail the voters. Trump demanded honesty that would serve the country, even if blunt, because loyalty to the people matters more than loyalty to a narrow political hierarchy. Criticizing him for expecting loyalty or candor misses the larger principle of accountability.
         
         Regarding Charlottesville and PolitiFact’s note about clarifications: the context of all of Trump's statements.  Trump condemned neo-Nazis and white supremacists clearly, and any delay in a reporter’s follow-up does not negate the substance of what he said. It’s misleading to imply he supported extremists just because clarification came the next day.
         
         On executive power, it’s disingenuous to frame Trump’s use of emergency orders as bypassing Congress in a negative sense. Every president uses executive authority to address gridlock; Trump acted to protect Americans, renegotiate trade, and prioritize national interests. That is representation, not monarchy.
         
         About “I alone can fix it”: this wasn’t a narcissistic claim; it was a statement of accountability. Millions of Americans felt the system had failed them, and Trump was declaring his willingness to take on what others wouldn’t. Context is critical, and quotes pulled without it distort intent.
         
         Regarding justice and pardons: Trump’s use of pardon power addressed an already-biased system, not personal gain. Comparing him to Clinton or Obama shows precedent—he wasn’t corrupt, he sought to correct inequity in a system stacked against ordinary Americans.
         
         On America First versus MAGA: putting the country first doesn’t exclude advocacy for specific policies like MAGA; in fact, MAGA policies were designed to strengthen American jobs, borders, and trade. The claim that he didn’t prioritize the nation overlooks the tangible results of his administration.
         
         Blaming Biden's debate performance and Harris's limited campaign time oversimplifies the 2024 election outcome. The Democratic Party was aware of Biden's cognitive challenges yet proceeded with his candidacy. Harris had no clear agenda, which meant her campaign failed to energize voters or present a compelling vision. Meanwhile, the MAGA movement isn’t just about merchandise, rallies, or entertainment; it’s a community of Americans actively engaged in politics, advocating for policies they believe will strengthen the country. Suggesting it exists only to “denigrate the other side” ignores its focus on ideas, accountability, and civic participation.
         
         Finally, on narcissism and being a “master con-artist”: success in politics does not automatically equal deception. Millions of Americans voted for him twice because they saw real action and results, not because they were deceived. And pointing fingers at Trump’s personality without examining systemic failures in the opposing party ignores the bigger picture of why voters made their choice.
         
         In short, every point can be countered by context, evidence, and principle: Trump’s actions consistently focused on accountability, patriotism, and prioritizing the American people, even if critics reduce those efforts to personal attacks or selective interpretations. 
         
         I’ve always recognized that Trump has personality traits I didn’t initially appreciate, traits I would describe as narcissistic. But over time, I’ve come to see many more positive characteristics in him, even if they’re a bit rough around the edges. I’m genuinely impressed with his performance in office and the diligence he shows in addressing problems he inherited, as well as long-standing issues that have persisted for decades, issues I, myself, have wanted fixed for just as long. I fully support his agenda, which is something many don’t seem to understand, it’s the very agenda that got him elected. And why would anyone who supports him feel upset when they see him keeping the promises he made? The real divide in our society lies here: two sides with ideologies that will never, and can never, fully align.

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