Sec. Hegseth's 'New War Department Speech
This will probably be the most obvious Red vs. Blue issue yet.
The trend of early headlines:
"Hegseth rails against 'woke,' lays out standards in speech to top generals, admirals"
'Insulting and condescending': Retired general rips into Hegseth over 'rah-rah speech'
As a veteran, the speech had me wiping my eyes. Hell right!
The biggest and most important point, I think, is the 'fact' that the military can not be civilianized.
I do think it was a mistake not to end the meeting with Hegseth's speech. The audience should have been allowed to leave, focusing on the message of his speech. Anything else diminishes the meeting's effect.
GAWhat is “woke”? I don’t see any fragility in today’s military that drunken Petey can accurately identify. The focus on taking the military forces from its mission and violating Posse Comitatus has to be of concern to these high ranking military officers. This drunken fool is well outside of his element.
Are you asking because you don't know what it is, or because you want to argue about it, again?
The speech defines "warrior ethos" for me. What defines it for you? Pick one of his ten directives and argue a point.
Whadda ya think about the physical fitness aspect? Should fitness matter?
GAGrooming standards couldn't have been conveyed through an email LOL???
Grooming standards weren't the message. Cultural change was. Talk about the dog instead of its fleas. Warrior ethos is the dog.
A beard is the flea that will keep a gas mask from saving your life. A fat belly is the flea that eats at physical capability. And so on. Which ones don't seem important to you?
*Just for kicks, that gas mask part prompted a memory from basic training; removing mine in the 'gas house.' Which was a shed-like building that we entered with our masks on, then we removed our masks and recited General Orders, then replaced our masks— correctly —before we could exit. The gas was tear gas. Beards don't work well with gas masks. Just a memory.
GAAt with an overly obese commander-in-chief sitting there. Yes, I agree, he should be made an example of.
Yes, I don’t know what it is outside of being whatever this administration calls it. I think that the reality is that a definitive definition is akin to nailing jello to the wall, as more partisan than real. It is still just more rightwing claptrap.
The military has always had a warrior ethos, i served in such an environment, so I know a little about it.
Of course physical fitness matters, as a young officer, I had to run 1.5 miles in 12 minutes, and was tested monthly. Today, I would be lucky to do that in a little less than twice the time allotted. I personally administered the “fat boy” program preparing honorable discharges as one of my first assignments in the military to those that could not maintain weight or girth standards.
So what is petey harping about?You're right about the "woke" definition. So let's pick one you and I can agree to understand as representative of a definition.
How about: Woke means any criteria that replaces merit as the determining factor in deciding whatever the issue is. That would make the argument simple; a does it or doesn't it?
You have a better memory than me if you remember the distance and times. I just remember the process: break you down to a moldable worm, run you until you had to get fit or die, and then give everyone left the training and support to 'be all you can be (although that phrase was before my time).'
Anything less is a disservice and a danger. 'Woke' is that "anything less."
Yes, the military has always had a warrior ethos, but it's had less and less of it since 90s.
GA“You're right about the "woke" definition. So let's pick one you and I can agree to understand as representative of a definition.”
So, cleansing the national museums of contributions by women and people of color both past and present is an anti-woke initiative? What does that have to do with the principle of merit? Have they not already earned it?
https://www.msnbc.com/top-stories/lates … rcna226656
“How about: Woke means any criteria that replaces merit as the determining factor in deciding whatever the issue is. That would make the argument simple; a does it or doesn't it?”
NO, it does not as this 4 star general that whiskey petey dismissed as being woke, had the following resume
10
What You Need to Know About Air Force Gen. Charles Q. Brown Jr.
General Charles Q. Brown Jr.'s career includes commands of fighter squadrons, wings, and U.S. Air Forces Central Command (USCENTAF) and Pacific Air Forces (PACAF), culminating in his roles as Chief of Staff of the U.S. Air Force and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. A command pilot with extensive flight hours, including combat time, he is a Texas Tech civil engineering graduate who also holds a master's from Embry-Riddle.
Key Details
Rank: General
Education:
B.S. Civil Engineering, Texas Tech University
M.S. Aeronautical Science, Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University
Career Highlights:
Command pilot with over 3,100 flight hours, including 130 in combat
U.S. Air Force Weapons School Commandant
Commanded the 78th Fighter Squadron and the 8th and 31st Fighter Wings
Led PACAF and U.S. Air Forces Central Command
served as Deputy Commander of U.S. Central Command
Key Assignments:
Aide-de-Camp to the 15th Chief of Staff, Gen. Ronald R. Fogleman
National Defense Fellow at the Institute for Defense Analyses
Major Awards:
Defense Superior Service Medal
Legion of Merit
Bronze Star Medal
Notable Achievements:
Became the first African American to serve as Chief of Staff of the U.S. Air Force
Later became the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the highest-ranking military officer in the U.S. Armed Forces
This man was commissioned in 1984, while Petey was only 4 years old and taking his whiskey from his mother’s breast. Hegseth was born in 1980. I think that this officer and his experience was a far better guide to what constitutes an effective military than the opinion of some Fox News flunky or a coward that presented the country with “bone spurs” when called upon to serve and would not so much as get his hair wet. I don’t see any lack of merit in General Brown’s background, do you?
Other high profile officers dismissed by Hegseth were minority or female for the same reason “woke’. Is that your best definition of woke? So, don’t talk to me about “merit”. That is the BS definition that the righties have been selling, but doesn’t work with me.
I don’t boast when say that i have a great memory. I don’t remember the phrase “be all you can be” as being before our respective time, given a year or two, we are probably contemporaries.
What is the source for your opinion of the military’s weakness since the 1990s? We had the Iran war in 1991, the 9-11 stuff as well as this thing in Iraq in 2003. Are we saying that they have not performed admirably during those periods?
Conservatives wanting to pawn all this stuff off on people are, in fact, the deplorables that we say they are……Perhaps a valid concern... but a reminder is warranted:
Soon after Joe Biden became president, the Pentagon ordered an unprecedented military-wide "stand down" of service members to root out right wing domestic extremists, wasting 5.8 million man hours. The Pentagon then hired Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion Officers at salaries as high as $200,000. For two years, the Department of Defense rigidly enforced vaccine requirements, cutting off tens of thousands of service members from benefits, even when many have legitimate objections and are young, healthy adults.
The Pentagon’s woke obsessions could have severe effects on military preparedness and readiness. The Navy – which published a reading list that included books by the likes of Ibram X. Kendi – released a report advocating for less testing for officers in order to boost minority representation. The Army similarly attempted to lower fitness standards in order to increase the number of women in combat. By placing political goals ahead of troop training standards, Pentagon bureaucrats are risking soldiers’ very lives.
In recent years, the academies have also taught radical doctrines like Critical Race Theory under the label of "diversity and inclusion." The Air Force Academy established a special "Diversity and Inclusion reading room" that it described as a "safe space" for America’s young warriors. It also created an organization of hand-picked cadets – identified by a purple braid on their dress uniform—to spread these controversial ideals in the ranks. At West Point, cadets can now minor in "Diversity and Inclusion Studies" alongside cadets studying serious subjects like Grand Strategy, Aeronautical Engineering, and Nuclear Science.
And earlier this year, the U.S. Air Force Academy had cadets participate in a seminar that instructs them against using the word "terrorist" and to avoid gender specific phrases. When we’re training cadets how not to offend terrorists rather than how to destroy them, we need to seriously review our priorities.
https://hinson.house.gov/media/press-re … as-wrought
EXAMINING THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION'S COUNTERTERRORISM STRATEGY
Index of Documents
----------
* CSIS, article, ``The Military, Police, and the Rise of
Terrorism in the United States''; submitted by Rep. Wasserman-
Schultz.
* Brennan Center, a study, ``Countering Violent Extremism in
the Trump Era''; submitted by Rep. Pressley.
* CSIS, ``The Escalating Terrorism Problem in the United
States''; submitted by Rep. Raskin.
* The New York Times, article, ``How Trump's Focus on Antifa
Distracted Attention From the Far-Right Threat''; submitted by
Rep. Norton.
* The Washington Post, article, ``The Rise of Domestic
Extremism in America''; submitted by Rep. Norton.
* The New York Times, article, ``Efforts to Weed Out Extremists
in Law Enforcement Meet Resistance''; submitted by Rep. Ocasio-
Cortez.
* The Guardian, article, ``The FBI Has a History of Targeting
Black Activists. That's Still True Today''; submitted by Rep.
Tlaib.
* The Post and Courier, article, ``Police Connect Vandalism at
Nancy Mace's Home to Incident at Bishop England High School;
submitted by Rep. Mace.
* The Wall Street Journal, article, ``Cities Reverse Defunding
the Police Amid Rising Crime''; submitted by Rep. Mace.
* The New York Times, article, ``Why Charges Against Protesters
are Being Dismissed''; submitted by Rep. Mace.
Documents are available at: docs.house.gov.
Replace "White Supremacy" and "Domestic Terrorist" with NON-WOKE and Patriotic and Honorable and Law Abiding and you will have a far better picture of who they were trying to rid the government and military of.
Biden’s Woke and Bloated Bureaucracy
https://budget.house.gov/press-release/ … reaucracy/
Injecting Divisive DEI Into Every Aspect of Government
President Biden has attempted to inject controversial and divisive diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) race, sexual orientation, and gender identity- based policies through every aspect of the federal government.
These policies are antithetical to the very founding of our nation, which is based on the principle that “all men are created equal.”
Federal agencies have been required to develop “Equity Action Plans” to describe how they will take into account race in reallocating taxpayer funding through contracts and grants to politically favored groups. The administration explicitly states they are “embedding equity in the everyday business of government.”
How a woke military has created a recruiting crisis — and put Americans in danger
https://starrs.us/how-a-woke-military-h … in-danger/
Pete Hegseth joined the Army in 2001 to combat extremism. He fought in the Iraq and Afghanistan wars and was awarded two Bronze Stars.
He wrote the book “The War on Warriors: Behind the Betrayal of the Men and Women Who Keep Us Free”
In the name of diversity and social justice, the woke elites running our armed forces have lowered standards and alienated the brave young patriots who once ably protected America and its allies.
“They believe power is bad, merit is unfair, ideology is more important than industriousness, white people are yesterday, and safety is better than risk-taking,” he writes. “However, our enemies still understand that a soldier needs to be powerful, skilled, and courageous.”
"For the past three years — after President Barack Obama poured the social justice foundation — the Pentagon, across all branches, has embraced the social justice messages of gender equity, racial diversity, climate stupidity, and the LGBTQA+ alphabet soup in their recruiting pushes."
A social justice military fails to recruit the masculine men who make up our warrior class.
This is self-evident. My high school, in mostly rural, blue-collar Minnesota, produced some great warriors— tough-as-nails, football-playing studs who were looking for their next manly pursuit.
One of my friends joined the Marines, another the Army Rangers — later wounded and decorated in battle. They were high school boys, who — at that time — saw the patriotic, tough, masculine messaging of Marine Corps and Army advertisements and said, “Hell yeah, I want to do that.”
In both of their cases, the military took raw, possibly “toxic” masculine men and created trained, disciplined, honorable masculine men. Who knows what the untrained and unconstrained world would have made of these alpha males, but the military made great warriors — and now great citizens.
Our key constituency is normal men, looking to be heroes and not victims.
We aren’t a collection of aggrieved tribes. Equality is our bedrock, lethality our trademark. There is no black and white in our ranks. We are all green.
Our strength is not in our diversity, but in our unity and in our love for each other, our families, and, most of all, our nation. This is a truth I have lived firsthand in Iraq.
Woke... Social Justice... this sick twisted ideology of Leftists... of Progressives... is worse than any outside threat... it is more dangerous than Communist China or a Totalitarian Russia... it is the opposite of Cohesive... it is the opposite of Brotherhood... it is the opposite of Honor and Duty... it is a cancer killing our Country and must be rooted out for the evil that it is.Ken, those that act on rightwing extremism are inappropriate within the ranks and should be ferreted out.
I don’t know about your claim concerning the veracity of the DEI pentagon hires, as that salary is greater than that of general officers. I was required to get certain vaccinations prior to entry as a matter of safety, why would I be surprised by that?
Since when is the Navy afraid of contrary ideas? People read what they want, it is only conservatives that are SO afraid of contrary ideas and thinking. But, I will stand by my opinion that standards should not be lowered to accommodate anyone.
As far as I am concerned, Critical Race Theory is more a correct assessment of this society than otherwise, although I do take issue with a point or two.
The social sciences, although you give them short shift, have significance. I don’t see anything wrong with learning along these lines. Officers take on a variety of roles not all of them directly related to combat.
It may well be an exaggeration on your part to say that the military is not taking the meaning of terrorist seriously. I don’t think that it is unreasonable within a diverse society and military to foster understanding among its members, if even in a minor role for a more cohesive force.
====
“These policies are antithetical to the very founding of our nation, which is based on the principle that “all men are created equal.”
We know from a study of American history that this has not always been the case and we all have to be reminded that it is.
======
That brings me to the role of women wanting entry into the Navy Seals for example. I still say there should be an aptitude test for any and all candidates gauging physical strength and endurance which is strongly correlated to success in training and as a Navy Seal, without the expense of sending inadequate candidates to actual training, you can purge at the beginning.
I took the Air Traffic Control exam in 1984 in response to Reagan’s firing of so many at that time. I passed the aptitude test and could be sent to training in Oklahoma City with both their and my confidence that I could succeed, without their risking the expense of training a candidate without the aptitude to begin with.
We know from a study of American history that this has not always been the case and we all have to be reminded that it is.
There is no objective evidence to support the rightwinger’s claim of any diminished military capability, where is it?
“Our strength is not in our diversity, but in our unity and in our love for each other, our families, and, most of all, our nation. This is a truth I have lived firsthand in Iraq.”
Unity and love is starts with respect and of acceptance of each other, the color line has been a boundary in American life, it cannot be in the Armed Forces, where lives depend on people working together.
No one is talking about a “social justice” military, Ken. Not everyone is from rural, blue collar Minnesota, i was born in the San Francisco Bay and raised in the relatively liberal Denver area. Completely different backgrounds, however we must learn to respect each other to obtain to a common goal as soldiers.
Many people have to be taught and reminded to put aside prejudices and evaluate people based on merit. Because, it was not always that way.
So what is a “masculine man”? It is a man unafraid, courageous and not easily intimidated by adverse circumstances. It is more than just a facade.You know as well as I what Basic Training used to be for... To break people down...so they could be rebuilt as soldiers who follow orders not individuals who express their biases.
DEI and transgender targeting Ads is not "we are all green"... It is the opposite... Reaffirming surgery?
Come on.
Any Ranger or SEAL class that has a woman pass it is a watered down class that does not have hard enough standards... Been there, did that, know what those courses used to require, know what the standards used to be.
Know there were no women that could make the standards until politics and terminating careers of those who wanted to uphold the standards changed that.You know as well as I what Basic Training used to be for... To break people down...so they could be rebuilt as soldiers who follow orders not individuals who express their biases.
But we both also know that that does not always happen.
The problem with conservatives in this era of Trump is that in all this talk about merit, it is not seriously sought as they are blinded by their own preset biases.A humorous story (at least I chuckled) is next, but first, an explanation to set the stage.
The 'thought' was about the idea of "Warrior Ethos" maybe having the same problem as "Woke." As mentioned, you and Ken prompted it.
It's obvious I have a very strong non-partisan bias on this issue, and I was so confident of my opinion that I had to look for holes. I didn't find any. So, I'm letting this thought go on its way. The OP already covered my thoughts on the matter.
Here's the stage for the story: Since Grok's summer upgrade, I've tried the 'Assistant' mode a few times. (as mentioned to Ken). I'm sure the other big guys, generally, have the same capabilities (I tried Gemini), but Grok's personality has me hooked.
So I fired up Grok and had a conversation. This was not a query; it was a conversation.
I laid out my perspective regarding this topic and asked if my 'assumptions' could be generally safe and fair to make?
She (of course it's a she) said my assumptions were fairly drawn, did not contain any connotations or inferences of toxic male masculinity or chauvinism. I was safe.
Here's where the chuckle started. In her explanation, she started to flatter me, serious flattery. I finally interrupted, told her thanks (get that? I'm thanking a damn computer code to get it to stop talking), "that's all, hang up now" (Grok asks if you don't tell it) and I hit the X button. As I was bringing the phone to my shirt, I chuckled to myself about the flattery; Holy cow! I said out loud.
As I'm sliding it into the pocket, a voice pipes up and she says, What's that?
Hang up girl (I haven't named her yet), hang up! I quickly closed the app.
But there's a serious aspect. None of this was silly or frivolous behavior. The answers were top-tier, the explanations made sense, and even the damn flattery was correct. It felt like a conversation with a peer—even as I told myself it wasn't. I'm sure others do the same and find their interactions just as real as Grok. I wasn't prepared for the level of real-world sophistication these AIs have.
This is going to be a problem for young folk.
GAVery true ...you and I have a wealth of information to go off of ...young people who do not are going to come to rely on AI to do their research for them.
Unlike you and I they won't develop the same type of critical thinking skills to say... "That sounds right" ... Or know that something is off.
Fascinating when you consider top Ivy League schools are doing away with SAT scores and proven competency... Really don't have the time to delve deeply into it... But can provide you a link to Victor who does:
https://youtu.be/X0wns26Avgc?si=coGZdpi_4Lwab7CJ
I think the Harvard and Stanford types are in the process of completely destroying their reputations... But the future of AI in learning may be why.Why wouldn't they develop critical thinking? That is learned in high school to some degree and, if they go, improved upon in college.
I at least apply it to any information input, be it Britannica, a politician, or AI. I always ask the same question - is it true or does that make sense based upon my experience and education.
If it doesn't, I inquire further. I suspect even young people who have been taught to think critically and haven't been radicalized left or right will do with AI.
Not familiar with Grok, i am now wondering what that is all about.
We talked about skynet and Hal 9000 before
I am not sold on any of this yet as being self aware which would be prerequisite for any serious conversation still remains within the province of neurons and not silicon.
But the mimicry is still fantastic, in of itself.Yep, it's not AGI (self-awareness) yet, but it's more than mimicry now. I would point to those humanoid 'girl' robots seen in TED Talks as an example of fantastic mimicry. Grok performed and felt like a level above mimicry.
That's just my early experience. I'm not sure if it's any better or worse than its competitors (industry benchmarks suggest it is better), but it worked 'fantastically' for me.
*That "self-awareness" point has at least a couple of cases where the AI tried to circumvent its turn-off order, both overtly and covertly. So ...
GA
That is cute, for sure. ChatGPT does flattery as well, but since I am on a laptop, it doesn't "hear" me or talk to me. It's flattery however is limited to short lead in one-liners like "Great Catch"
That was my first experience too. I answered a question about topic choice, and she started with: Cool!
GA
I think you are blurring political or civilian issues with military.
In fact I would say one of the biggest problems is the excessive effort by the body politic to push their ideological beliefs into the military...where they quickly realized they had a lot more power and control, and less ability for soldiers to speak out against it without their careers being ended.
Oh lordy, now you got me channelling Reagan:
"There you go again ... "
All that work. A link, a cut & paste, names, specifics ...
What about the definition first, not whether some detail fits it?
For a Red vs. Blue perspective, the one I offered seems to fit us fine.
As a concept, I say a definition we would both understand, as a start, is: “How about: Woke means any action criteria that replaces merit as the determining factor in deciding whatever the issue is."
You don't need links or details, yet, just what do you think about that concept? Let's agree on the measure before trying to compare measurements.
[ADDED]
The "all you can be" slogan was fairly recent. I only meant it wasn't during my time.
GAAs a concept, I say a definition we would both understand, as a start, is: “How about: Woke means any action criteria that replaces merit as the determining factor in deciding whatever the issue is."
Absolutely Not
You don’t mind if I defer to the Merriam-Webster Dictionary for their definition of the word “woke”
aware of and actively attentive to important societal facts and issues
(especially issues of racial and social justice)
It is simpler, more encompassing and far more accurate. Anti-Woke: Not to acknowledge issues of racial and societal injustice in a nation having a history like this one is fundamentally declaring war on people of color.
It has nothing to do with merit, but it is used to attack people of color, whether merit is involved or not. It spans everything that non-whites touch from the military to the fine arts. Anyone of color is already identified as “woke” simply based on their very existence under this current regime.
Keeping it simple…Wait, wait, I've seen this one before. I gotta use it. Honest, only for the irony, not the insult. I'll owe ya one.
'You're just being obtuse.'
You said my basic idea was wrong, you couldn't agree with it, and then threw a dictionary definition at me that said I was right. What the hell?
"... aware of and actively attentive to ... " That's an action.
" ... important societal facts and issues ..." That's a criterion.
" ... (especially issues of racial and social justice)" That's the criteria.
That sounds like what I said.
And it puts me a half point up: together, we don't know what we're talking about because we can't agree whether it's a dog or cat — 0 points
You think you know what woke means — in this discussion's context, as I also think I do: — 0 points.
But, you lose a half point for that dictionary blunder. Stop skipping ahead, I'm not jumping to where you want to be, but I will walk there if you do too.
GAI think that you are being cryptic in an attempt to be clever, just doing one one better in regards to your “obtuse” remark.
Aware and activity attentive to does not necessarily mean anything beyond attention and awareness. By that definition, I am woke because i am attentive and actively aware of race and social justice issues. I never spoke of changing standards and if I do it is to make sure that merit standard is all that more certain to be applied.
With the fundamental social cohesion of this society at stake, I believe that sociatal facts and issues are a relevant concern.
I will have to determine what else is encompassed by “social justice”
So all that adds up to non merit considerations? I say that woke has come to be defined in this current regime as any person or color or in some cases women. So maybe, were are in another one of your mazes, dog or cat?
We can’t begin with zero points for either side, can we?
I don’t think that the dictionary definition was a blunder, but you have taken an expert definition and simply added one of your own.Here's the deal, your reply, to me, is like a corridor of open doors. I'd feel guilty. But, the recent exchanges about the "Warrior Ethos" sparked a thought that needs some attention.
Here's my CliffNotes answers, by sentence:
No, no, yes, yes, yes, not necessarily yet, yes as the answer, not yet, we did begin with 0 points, you got the minus half point, No, I added a description of its components.
We'll see how it goes.
GA
Physical fitness - as I just pointed out - Hegseth lied about the state of physical fitness standards - they already are job, not gender, related.
So it's a battle of sources: official ones vs. anecdotal ones, right?
That's a tough ask for us anecdote believers. You're asking that we (generic) ignore boots-on-the-ground sources and our lying eyes (nope, those weren't fat generals or out-of-shape soldiers).
GA
As a veteran and retired Army, it made me sick to my stomach to see a TV commentator who was once a 1st Lieutenant, spew such garbage.
You see, Hegseth made history up, the military never lowered standards to let women in - saying so is a lie. In fact:
* When the Pentagon opened all combat jobs to women (2015–2016), Congress and DoD required gender-neutral, job-validated standards for any occupation open to both men and women. Services had to prove the standards matched the physical tasks of the job and apply them equally.
Congress.gov
+2
GovInfo
+2
Hegseth’s speech was a war cry for the aggrieved white man who desperately wants his place back as the dominant demographic.
Hegseth is a drunk Fox host. He doesn’t deserve to shine the shoes of the officers he’s lecturing....There’s a particular kind of secondhand embarrassment watching Hegseth deliver a speech to the men and women of the world’s most powerful and formidable armed forces...
Did Generals who’ve dedicated their lives to the military enjoy being lectured about “warrior ethos” by a talk-show host?
Followed up by doozy Don giving them a "sir" story about the tariff shelf? My God.... After posting last night like a 12 year old child, an AI video of Jeffries and Schumer??
I can't take this bunch seriously.... They're an insult to intelligenceOh well, it sounded great to this deplorable.
GAOne hopes that was the show put on for public consumption... and the real reason for calling together all the Generals was something going on 'offscreen'.
Pulling everyone together like that for a 'rah rah' speech is a bit over the top... and yes, will be considered insulting to most gathered, if there wasn't some 'deeper' reason for them being there.
It would be nice if a couple of them were made examples of that need to be cleaned out... so a real message would get thru to them, and the ranks, of what is no longer acceptable or to be tolerated.
And right now... after decades of 'woke' being forced into the military and those who would oppose it being washed out... there is plenty need for examples to be made.The 'show's' message might have been as directed at the NCO ranks that weren't there as much as it was the officers that were.
Consider his remarks about drill sergeants; they might hear "Do your job the way you need to!" and the officers might hear "Get on board or get off the team." Especially if some part of your thought is right, ie, public career executions.
GA
Hegseth’s speech was a war cry for the aggrieved white man who desperately wants his place back as the dominant demographic.
Oh yes.
And then, dictator wannabe with this...
Trump said he told Hegseth "we should use some of these dangerous cities as training grounds for our military — National Guard, but our military, because we’re going into Chicago very soon."
Yup. They should (wipe their tears)... but for what they did and are doing to the country.As expected, the military present kept their mouths shut, being the professionals that they are.
But retired military have no such constraints put upon them:
Lt. Gen. Mark Hertling (Ret., U.S. Army) — says the speech embedded a “sinister”/illegal domestic-use message (cities as “training grounds”), warns troops won’t execute unlawful orders, and described Trump’s talk as meandering; he’s repeated the point on TV and podcasts.
The Daily Beast
+1
Gen. Barry McCaffrey (Ret., U.S. Army, 4-star) — called the remarks “one of the most bizarre, unsettling events” he’s seen and said Trump sounded “incoherent, exhausted… at times stupid.”
The Independent
+1
Lt. Gen. Ben Hodges (Ret., U.S. Army) — drew a historical warning comparing the sudden mass summons to 1930s Germany; Hegseth publicly replied “Cool story, General.”
Forbes
+1
Adm. James Stavridis (Ret., former NATO SACEUR) — more measured: argues the U.S. military is “as lethal as ever” and that Trump/Hegseth miss the big point, even while conceding some fitness focus is fine; cautions against politicizing the force.
Bloomberg
+1
Col. Mark Cancian (Ret., USMC; CSIS) — emphasizes the brass kept apolitical discipline (stood, stayed silent, applauded at the end) and warns against reading approval into the silence; flags civil-military norms at stake.
CSIS
Common threads from the retired ranks
* Rule-of-law alarms about using active-duty forces for domestic policing/training.
The Daily Beast
* Sharp criticism of tone/competence (McCaffrey) vs. keep-perspective caution (Stavridis).
The Independent
+1
* Civil-military norms: the audience’s studied neutrality doesn’t signal buy-in, and politicizing the force is risky.
CSIS
+1
TO BE fair, a few military offered milquetoast support for what took place:
Gen. Ron Fogleman (USAF, ret., former Air Force Chief of Staff) told The Durango Herald the Quantico session was “very useful” for giving senior leaders clear direction on strategy, conduct and focus, adding it was helpful to lay out expectations for the force.
Durango Herald
Lt. Gen. Jerry Boykin (USA, ret.) praised the gathering as a sign the military is being “restored,” and said he hoped it would become at least an annual event.
Washington Stand
Lt. Col. Robert “Bob” Maginnis (USA, ret.) said Hegseth’s message refocuses the Pentagon on warfighting and a “leaner, tougher, more lethal” force.
Washington Stand
Cmdr. Kirk Lippold (USN, ret.) backed tougher, uniform physical standards and called for trimming bureaucracy, saying the administration is taking the armed forces “in the right direction.” this was the strongest support
AFN
GA, personally, I will say this in words that truly offer my true opinion: when it comes to the military, I want strong men and women, with strong values, and strong dedication to protecting my country. Pete Hegseth’s speech this morning reflected exactly that. My husband, a proud veteran, was cheering every word. It’s refreshing to hear leadership that prioritizes readiness, merit, and the warrior ethos over political correctness. Some may resort to name-calling, but real change requires courage and clarity. Hegseth’s vision for a stronger, more focused military is exactly what our country needs.
SharGetting them ready to go into a blue cities and likely kill people... That's where all of this is headed. It is to totally crush, in every way, blue cities and if people get killed along the way I don't think they give a shit.
ICE is provoking people blatantly more and more.... Trump knows his followers will make any excuses for them and him....ICE killing citizens and them using the excuse that they were just doing their job is right around the corner....
This regime firmly believes its followers are stupid
This old fool has us on the brink of a civil war... Because that is exactly where we will be when we eventually see either ice or the guard or the military kill a citizen...it's coming
Most MAGAS already ignore or actually cheer on the increasingly brutal tactics of these goonsShar,
I completely agree with you. As a proud veteran I was also cheering every word. Too many people who have never served or fought in a war made just plain stupid decisions.
The military HAS to be merit based. Promotions based on race or gender can't be permitted. The US military is a fighting force not a playground for social experiments.
When I was in maintaining certain weight and meeting physical fitness goals was standard. Being clean shaven was also mandatory. There is no place in any fighting force for overweight troops.
As someone who served, I can say he is doing what needs to be done.
I'm glad.
I don't expect the woke to understand this.Trump..."The oath says enemies foreign and domestic… well, we also have domestic.”
Trump is admitting that he’s going to use the US military, on US soil, against US citizens... calling those who protest him and stand up against his attacks on our communities and democracy the “enemy from within.”
This is fascism. He is a fascist.
He's rallying the military. Whiskey Pete telling them basically to be more brutal while we have ice out here attacking citizens... We're headed for dark times. Mark my words this bunch will kill people .. the stage is being setMike, I couldn’t agree more with your thoughts. My husband also served, and I’ve heard many of the same frustrations from him about how politics and “social experiments” are creeping into the military. The military should always be about readiness, discipline, and merit, not lowering standards to fit an agenda.
You’re right that promotions should never be based on race or gender, but on ability and performance. Our troops need to know that the person leading them earned that position, not that it was handed out to check a box. And yes, physical fitness and discipline aren’t optional; they’re essential. When lives are on the line, there’s no room for compromise.
I’m glad to see leadership finally taking this seriously. Like you, I don’t expect the “woke” crowd to understand it, but those who have served, and their families, know exactly why it matters.
The U.S. Army met its FY 2025 recruiting goal of 61,000 new soldiers four months early, which is a big turnaround from recent shortfalls. New leadership does seem to be making a real difference in bringing in recruits. With the Army already hitting its 2025 goals months ahead of schedule and a dedicated task force working to streamline the process, it looks like the changes are having an impact. Stronger focus on readiness, discipline, and cutting out unnecessary red tape is clearly helping turn things around.
Stupid...someone get him to his medbed for a nap already...
https://x.com/Acyn/status/1973025654242455979Sorry folks, judging by their speeches, neither Trump nor Hegseth has paid the slightest attention to how actual wars are being fought in the actual world. The “war fighting” and “lethality” they plan is inside their own country and comes from conflicts inside their own minds....
Trump to generals: "America is under invasion from within. We're under invasion from within. No different than a foreign enemy, but more difficult in any ways because they don't wear uniforms. At least when they're wearing a uniform you can take them out."
Saying the quiet part out loud...
https://x.com/atrupar/status/1973027387383152644Basically, Trump and Hegseth told the generals they're going to war with half of the country and if they don't like it, they can quit.
Trump is now trying to completely turn the US military on US citizens...This looks like a rehearsal for when he try to stay...
They've been putting the right pieces in the right places.
“We’re under invasion from within,” Trump told Military Officers....
“It’s no different than a foreign enemy, but more difficult in many ways because they don’t wear uniforms.”
He added: “In our inner cities... which we’re going to be talking about because it’s a big part of war now. It’s a big part of war.”
This is the President of the United States attempting to recruit our military leadership to turn against Americans. This is a primer in state police language...Trump suggested that he is going to send the military against "the enemy from within" meaning any American who doesn't support him.... We are headed for some dark dark times" a stronger, more focused military is exactly what our country " HAS!
Meet the Navy’s drag queen, ‘Harpy Daniels’
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eio7p2adUkA
Army recruitment ad echoes CIA’s ‘woke’ efforts with LGBT youth activist’s path to service
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/20 … rts-with-/
WOKENESS OVER READINESS: THE IMPACT ON OUR MILITARY
https://republicanpolicy.house.gov/site … -final.pdf
Is the military too ‘woke’ to recruit?
https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your … o-recruit/
Top military leaders to blame for woke culture destroying armed forces
https://www.wnd.com/2024/08/top-militar … ed-forces/
Excerpt from the Military too 'woke' to recruit link:
“I’ll be blunt. I wouldn’t encourage anyone to join today’s armed forces and I discouraged both of my sons from considering serving,” wrote Peter Demas, who described himself as a third-generation veteran. “America’s military leaders have sold out the Services for their own advancement and reflect all the poorest qualities of civilian ‘leadership’ from whom they accepted thirty pieces of silver; instead of being the nation’s repository of integrity and moral courage, they have become more political than the political animals they grovel before.”
My sentiments exactly...
Over the last 12 years increasing levels of government funding has incentivized the growth of what is today a multi-billion-dollar DEI market.
There was an ongoing effort to change government institutions to support this ideology, the military should be the last bastion of the government that's affected by money being directed to promote identity politics in a warrior ethos founded on creating unity... instead it became a focal point of the Biden Administration's efforts.
DEI is the antithesis to the culture of the military. The Biden Administration focused on purging the ranks of soldiers with Honor and Integrity, there was a purge of military leadership replacing the most valorous and qualified with people who were willing carry the message of DEI forward.Ken,
You provided some excellent links.
I am so thankful we have a Secretary of War that is changing things.
History will remember this as something that saved our country.One thing I feel certain you and I will always agree on...
The Military... the Combat Arms in particular... is for those with the Warrior Mindset... not the Woke.
A place where only the tough... the "toxic"... belong. Combat... War... the art of killing other humans... is not a place for the weak or the Woke.Ken,
I'm constantly amazed at the opinions of people who never served and believe they are a wealth of knowledge on this topic. Being part of combat arms is not like being a civilian or doing the work of an adjutant. It has it's own unique requirements, especially as a leader.
If I was still in, and listened to the speech from the Secretary of Defense, I would be quite pleased. I've never been a flag officer. Not even close. I worked for one for a few months. They have to be good soldiers as well as good politicians.
If you are in combat arms you can't be sensitive, worry about feelings, care about quotas. You HAVE to be focused only on the mission. Period.
When I was a cadet we had a sergeant who made us constantly repeat "Mission first people second"
That is the way it has to be in a war.How The Army Tried To Avoid Telling The Truth About Women In Ranger Training
https://dailycaller.com/2019/08/29/us-a … e-rangers/
Russell was a highly-decorated infantry lieutenant colonel and Ranger School graduate who had a distinguished career of more than twenty years in the Army (including commanding a battalion that played a central role in capturing Saddam Hussein) before retiring and becoming a member of Congress. Russell’s letter asked the Army to provide all internal Ranger School documents related to the female candidates’ training and assessment, including “test scores, evaluations, injuries, pre-training and more.”
Russell had spoken to several RIs who told him one story—that standards had been lowered and senior Ranger Training Brigade officials had unduly influenced the outcome of the course—while the Army was telling him another—that everything was the same as always. “The training of our combat warriors is paramount to our national defense,” Russell wrote to Secretary of the Army John McHugh. “In order to ensure that the Army retains its ability to defend the nation, we must ensure that our readiness is not sacrificed.”
McHugh’s office responded to Russell’s letter one day before the due date and asked for additional time to complete his request. Nine days after that, Army officials informed Russell that nearly all of the training records had been destroyed. (RELATED: Army Wants To Hire Women As Advisers For Ranger School)
-----
The political pressure put on senior command to get women through Ranger school, no matter what, came soon after this:
All 8 women fail Ranger School
https://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Military/ … uld-change
On Friday, the Army announced that all the women who attempted to graduate from Ranger School had officially failed to meet the standards, according to a military source.
Ranger School, which grooms the Army’s most elite special operations fighting force, opened its doors to women for the first time this year. Eight of the 20 women who originally entered the school's first co-ed class were allowed to recycle through the program after they fell out in their first go-round. The Friday announcement confirmed this happened again. Three of the eight were invited to take the course over again in late June.
To many, this means the system is working as it should.
The Rangers are the best of the best, and being a Ranger means passing a physical test that pushes body and mind to the breaking point. If women can’t do it, the argument goes, then they shouldn’t be Rangers.
But there is another opinion quietly being voiced as well: that Ranger School is more akin to a rite of passage – an opportunity for men to “thump their chest,” as one Ranger puts it – than a realistic preparation for leading in war. That women can actually make Ranger units more effective. And that the standards that keep them out are outdated.
Gen. Raymond Odierno, the Army’s top officer, made this clear during a breakfast with reporters Thursday. While praising the performance of the women at the Ranger School, he added: “I’m actually fairly adamant about not changing the physical standards.”
But a discussion is percolating.
----
I served under Odierno, he was a no-nonsense, lead by example guy... those like him are few and far between in today's Army.
Shortly after making that statement he was given a choice.
In August 2015, Odierno retired from the Army after 39 years of service.This is an excellent read.
When I was in I was always amazed when Rangers would argue with Green Beret over who is the best of the best.
They actually have two different missions.Correct different missions... Different roles.
Women in Special Forces could make sense...you can make a sound argument.
Women in Rangers... SEALs... makes no sense, none could make the cut until standards were changed to push them thru. Until politics forced them to be let thru.
Trump Tells Generals the Military Will Be Used to Fight ‘Enemy Within’
President says some U.S. cities he considers dangerous should become training grounds for American troops...
“This is going to be a major part for some of the people in this room. That’s a war too. It’s a war from within,” Trump said.
This is grounds for impeachment.
Trump, Hegseth Address Military Leaders at Quantico in Unprecedented Gathering - WSJ https://share.google/mze17sjeoitYIohHo
https://x.com/usurpthachef/status/1973060692199526559Hegseth said yesterday he wants to ban any symbols of “superficial individual expression” by people serving in the military. Of course, he was probably talking about dangerous things like RAINBOWS...RIGHT?
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