Follow the premise of the message. Set aside who the messenger is.
This CR seems to be politics at its worst—by the drafters of the CR.
Consider the video's message: The last 'emergency' CR was 21 pages and covered 85 days. This one is 1500+ pages to cover 84 days. And, includes pay raises for Congress.
And more . . .
This CR—as presently understood from media presentations—is a slap to the face. Trump and Musk are right, it's nuts and should be rejected.
GA
"is a slap to the face."
Whose face? The voters? I would agree to that.
It seems there are a lot representatives against it. So, I won't give accolades to Trump and Musk or is it Musk and Trump. Unsure who the leader is these days.
Yep, the slap was to the voters.
As for who else opposed it; I wasn't offering accolades to anyone, I was simply agreeing with them. Those opposing Representatives are also right but they don't get the headlines.
The point was as much about the CR's contents as about who speaks against it. Opposing folks aren't talking about the CR (the message), they are talking about the messengers; bad orange man and weirdo billionaire.
GA
I think it will become very clear in the next few days. Many of us know we have a voice now, and it’s going to be heard loud and clear. No more status quo. I’m glad to be on the side that embraces that change—because the clash between those who want to keep things the same and those of us who want change will be impossible to ignore over the next four years.
I think we’re going to see something we don’t often see—Congress will finally recognize the writing on the wall, and put together a CR that’s free of anything that doesn’t belong. Yes, they will put up a short fight.
Tsk. Tsk. Bare links? Tsk. Tsk.
But yeah, your link made the point. Also part of that point is that the truth of it is not a partisan thing. Both parties do it. We all do know it. Our politicians (the one's we are blaming) admit it's the truth when it jabs the other party.
So, 'we' know it (is that a bad assumption?), our politicians verbally confirm it, and the physical proof of the document and its contents confirm it, yet, the national condemnation is of Trump and Musk, and evil conservatives.
GA
Too much common sense... Love it! Your clip is one everyone here should see. Passing a clean CR would be so simple, but the STATUS QUO insists on piling on pork, then running to the media to blame each other, claiming you'll lose your Social Security check if it doesn't pass. and so much more! They drag it out until the last moment, and voilà — it passes. Everyone gets what they want, we're relieved it’s done, and yet more is added to the debt. I voted for change, and I say shut it down! When push comes to shove, shove back. Not sure that the Republicans in Congress got the message. No more status quo. It has become so predictable one can mimic what will be reported, and what will be said by those who step to the mic to point out blame.
"This CR—as presently understood from media presentations—is a slap to the face. Trump and Musk are right, it's nuts and should be rejected.
GA"
Looks like Congress did not get the memo! "We the people" are over the status quo!
I am frustrated with the current CR—it feels like politics at its worst. The last one was only 21 pages for 85 days, but now we have this 1500+ page bill covering just 84 days, and it even includes pay raises for Congress. It’s hard not to see this as lawmakers trying to slip in things that benefit them while everyone else is just trying to get by. It feels like a blatant example of the system working for the politicians, not the people. On top of that, these bills often include perks for lawmakers to help their own political careers. Like, you’ll see funding for local projects that don't have much national importance but help their districts—things like building new federal buildings or funding for local universities.
There’s also often subsidies for specific industries, like agriculture or tech, that win support from those groups. And let’s not forget the pet programs or personal initiatives that align with their own priorities, like environmental or research funding, which might not be urgent but definitely help them look good back home. It just feels like a lot of these provisions are about winning votes and securing power, not necessarily about what’s best for the country. It’s frustrating because it makes the whole process seem more about self-interest than real governance. We all know this is the status quo. The question is, do we really want this crap to stop? I do. What about you?
Musk immediately rejected the bill . I believe he posted onX more than 100 times overnight.
Who is in charge indeed?
One lawmaker said office phone lines were flooded with calls from constituents
“My phone was ringing off the hook,” said Rep. Andy Barr, R-Ky. “The people who elected us are listening to Elon Musk.”
Musk is pledging to primary those who opposed him .
Musk's sidekick, Trump, is insisting on raising the debt ceiling. He has actually been floating the idea of abolishing it...with support of the Democrats of course. I do believe that idea is in direct opposition to Musk.
Welcome to the Musk presidency, where Trump is now clearly the vice president... I think we are officially an oligarchy.
A government shutdown? I say the Republicans can go to hell but they have insulated themselves from being held accountable for it, for now...
I don't give a damn what that kooky Musk has to say regarding it, there is always 2026 and Republicans will be punished for draconian acts that are included with the Trump agenda.
But, I will acknowledge one thing, the outrageous pay raises proposed for members of Congress are way out of line.
If they happen to coincide with kooky Musk's view, do you give a damn about anyone's view? How about your own, surely it won't be affected by anything Musk or Trump claims.
Do you think there is any substance behind the claims of unrelated pork-barrel spending included in a device (the CR) that is only supposed to address temporary government functions?
Have you considered any of the right-wing pork barrel claims? Was the pay raise the only thing that bothered you?
I am not for a government shutdown. If the released details, (as implied in the video) aren't a true interpretation, I'll join you in criticizing the orange man and weirdo.
But if they are true, this rush to do another 'bundled' CR is exactly the 'status quo' thing that has to be changed. It would be a good first step. You should be all for that. Rebuking the 'status quo' is right up your alley. ;-)
Check out the claims and then decide what to think of the messenger.
GA
So, GA, why don't you tell me why Trump wanted to strong arm Congress toward a 5 year extension of the debt ceiling when the GOP always attacked the concept under a Democrat's administration? Does that not open the window for wasteful spending?
I thought that Republicans were fiscal conservatives? I oppose Rep. Shumer and the Democrats if they want to give an exorbitant raise to members of Congress, as I hardly think that they have earned it.
But, I am not giving Trump anything, if he wants it, there has to be a sinister purpose behind it.
Helter-Skelter reigns......
Trump, as per usual, says the quiet part out loud. He would prefer to eliminate the debt ceiling under Biden so he can avoid taking the heat for more government borrowing. It is most certainly a break from decades of Republican party opposition to raising debt limits. But they are anticipating Trump’s deficit-exploding plan to extend and expand tax cuts..
I'm not defending Trump's demand for a 2-year debt ceiling suspension. I'm against it. It does more than "open the window to wasteful spending," it removes a crucial constitutional protection—the people's control of the purse strings.
The Republicans do claim the "fiscal conservatives" label, but they only earn it relative to Democrat spending comparisons. By any other measure, they're the twin of Democrats. They just pick different spending 'investments.'
I'm still optimistic. I don't think Trump will win the debt ceiling fight and I think the final CR will be a lot better than the one we started with.
This bout of helter-skelter (the CR fight) might be a good thing, in the end.
GA
If YOUR side is creating trillions in new debt... and creating double digit inflation... its all for a good cause.
If YOUR side is starting WWIII... it is justified.
And that is the problem.
Your side has done tremendous harm the last 4 years... tenfold the harm Trump did during his 4 years... more debt... more wars... more inflation... more social unrest... more migration.
When a government... an Administration does as badly as this one has... people have to pick the alternative... pick change... because we cannot continue down the road this cabal is taking us down and survive, as a nation or as a civilization.
We are doomed if we continue down the Biden/Democrat path.
You still have not answered the question....
It kind of does...
Its why we have a second Trump Administration incoming...
If you recall the debates and discussion we had back in 2019...
Prior to Biden being handed the Nomination and the world being turned upside down via a Pandemic and organized riots...
It was an opportunity to make significant change in the Democratic Party... in our government... that is not what happened.
The most corrupt politicians and corrupt elements within DC and their supporting Donor Class made sure they regained control of the government with dementia Joe as their stooge.
And you supported it. You excused everything they did to prop up Biden as the nominee and then everything they did the last 4 years.
And this is why Trump is back... we got Trump the first time because people were tired of a government that did not listen to their needs or concerns, spent money recklessly, and shoved change down their throats.
And when they got back in control with Biden as their front man... they went right back to spending money recklessly (fleecing America) shoving things down American's throats they did not want or believe in, and as an added bonus cranked up WWIII for us to waste trillions on... that has already cost hundreds of thousands of lives to be lost and ultimately will cost millions of lives to be lost (best case scenario).
Anyone who supported what this Administration has done and tried to keep them in power so they could have another 4 years to make things much worse... they are the problem.
And how does eliminating the debt ceiling through Trump's term address cutting egg prices? Asking for millions of folks...
Musk didn’t spend $277 million to elect Trump just to be an unofficial advisor.
He owns him and the Republican party.
X is going wild. "President Musk" trending
Rand Paul (R-Ky.) suggested Elon Musk serve as Speaker in a Thursday morning post on X following contentious debates over the continuing resolution (CR).
“The Speaker of the House need not be a member of Congress . . . ,” Paul wrote.
Later Thursday, Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-Ga.) said she would be open to supporting Musk to replace Speaker Mike Johnson (R-La.) in a post quoting Paul.
“I’d be open to supporting @elonmusk for Speaker of the House. DOGE can only truly be accomplished by reigning in Congress to enact real government efficiency,” Greene wrote on X.
Yup, with my morning romp on the web yesterday and today were quite a few articles with titles having the prompt, "President Musk" within it or a strong inference for it. Next is a link to a Google University landing page with a firefox browser search, "President Musk". One doesn't have to read too much to get the message by simply reading the article's titles. Even Fox news is in on it.
However, I read quite a few media sources that is not mainstream or right leaning. Some are Tangle, the Free Press, Reason, and others.
https://www.google.com/search?client=fi … ident+musk
The question is is it a distraction? Could it be look here and not there? Or, simply clues to the mystery of Jan 20th, 2025 and the supposed 25 (?) Executive Orders that will alter America for ages to come some say.
It's just mainstream media attempting to stay relevant for those who hang on their every word, and fall for their every headline, no matter how sensationalized!
It's an obsession, a sordid affair.....
P.S. for what it is worth Tim, I don't count you among the obsessed or among the TDS sufferers. You continually question, but keep an open mind.
Nothing unhealthy about that.
Well, I almost didn't vote as Ken told me that since I live in California my vote doesn't count. That stumped me since there is some truth to it . . . some. Unsettled I went on a journey crossing the plains of 'I don't know', entered the mountainous ravines of knowledge, and through the lush green valley of ancient wisdom. Still confused and bewildered I reread the Lord of the Rings while pondered the pursuit of Gollum for the ring pondering if it was similar to my quest.
Anyway, answering your query, I once again voted for Teddy Roosevelt, perhaps stubbornly while contemplating if only I could give a portion of my vote to the Republican party, the Democratic party, the Libertarians, and the Green party.
"The question is is it a distraction? Could it be look here and not there?"
Here’s my take: It feels like the wind has been knocked out of some sails with Trump winning the presidency. All the "Hitler" rhetoric, Project 2025 hysteria, and similar narratives seem to have lost their momentum. It’s like they’re scrambling for a lifeline now, and "President Musk" seems as good a distraction as any. After all, would the left really want to face the brewing problems we’re actually dealing with right now?
The" right now" list is long... Not taking that on.
"The" right now" list is long... Not taking that on."
Unsure what is meant with the last clause other than there is so much 'actually' happening the first question, in my view, is where to begin. Some of what your perspective pointed out I can agree with except possibly on Project 2025. With my reading it is very relevant today. I pretty much read more 'center' sources that are not mainstream corporate owned media.
I have even been reading the newsletters of the universities my nephews and nieces attend to get a perspective for the family's younger generation for the holiday get togethers, even though political discussions are taboo at them. They are Auburn, Ole Miss, and Texas A&M. So, of course, there are battles since they all are big football schools.
I just wanted to add my take on the "President Musk" label that's trending. In response to your point about whether it’s a distraction, I feel it's definitely a "look here, not there" situation. It seems like another smoke screen to draw attention away from what's actually in the CR that Congress is working on, along with many other current issues the White House hopes to keep on the down-low. There are a lot of pressing matters right now that are being overshadowed by these manufactured distractions.
One example of what I see as a current problem form my list --- another lie from this administration outed ---- WASHINGTON (AP) — The United States has more than doubled the number of its forces in Syria to fight the Islamic State group — a dramatic increase that the Pentagon revealed Thursday, acknowledging that the added troops have been there for months or even more than a year.
The U.S. had said for years that there were about 900 troops in Syria, but Maj. Gen. Pat Ryder, the Pentagon press secretary, acknowledged there were roughly 2,000 there now.
The Pentagon was asked repeatedly about the U.S. presence in Syria in the wake of the chaotic overthrow of Syrian President Bashar Assad on Dec. 8. It did not disclose the increase and instead kept repeating the 900 figure.
Speaking at a Pentagon press conference, Ryder said the additional forces had been in Syria for months — it’s been going on for a while.”
But hey, the President Musk thing is really important... Yeah ( I am sarcastic about this administration due to feeling they earned my disdain.) I never look there, but what is smack in front of me,
Musk came in and tanked a negotiated bipartisan bill. Trump, seemingly initially unaware, followed Musk's lead. That's just the reality of what happened. Musk has bought himself a presidency. Bought himself a country. Hey and at quite a bargain, less than what he paid for Twitter.
Trump wants the debt ceiling lifted...can you say spending spree?? They'll lose a number of Republicans on that demand. Wonder what Musk's move will be tonight? He has totally overshadowed Trump.
It's time for a chuckle.
That's funny. Stingingly so for some. And what a great tie-in to RFK Jr. ;-)
One X post commented that if this new CR fails, the next one will be one page. (wouldn't that be a kicker)
Until a CR does pass, and the public sees the content, it's just fun and games for me. For now, both sides are full-bore into political posturing. It's wait-and-see time.
That's okay by me, I think the Republicans have the winning hand—relative to what the public thinks—on this issue. All they have to do is cut the debt ceiling stuff (I wouldn't vote for that either) and their 'stand' matches the majority of the public's election message.*
*as I see it, of course
GA
Republican hypocrisy is bottomless. I love when Chip Roy torches his own party...
"Roy (R-TX): But to take this bill and congratulate yourself because it's shorter in pages, but increases the debt by $5 trillion, is asinine. And that's precisely what Republicans are doing."
https://x.com/Acyn/status/1869885899334693088
Roy is correct. Trump isn't hiding the fact that he wants to add trillions to the debt. Why the demand to abolish the debt ceiling? Is that what MAGA voted for?
Let the infighting begin.
First Trump said: “Increasing the debt ceiling is not great but we’d rather do it on Biden’s watch.”
Days later: "Getting rid of the debt ceiling would be the “smartest thing it [Congress] could do. I would support that entirely,” Trump said.
“Congress must get rid of, or extend out to, perhaps, 2029, the ridiculous Debt Ceiling. Without this, we should never make a deal. Remember, the pressure is on whoever is President,” Trump posted.
Also,
Trump said that if the government is to shut down, it should happen while Joe Biden is still president.
"If there is going to be a shutdown of government, let it begin now, under the Biden Administration, not after January 20th, under 'TRUMP.'
He cares so much.
Wait, I thought they were going to save America??
They are all blameless victims, all the time, even when it comes to trying to govern the nation, why people
Vote them in is a complete mystery. Useless.
On top of it, Republicans slashed $200 million for childhood cancer research, a program created with bipartisan support under Obama—from the CR bill.
A classic " dumpster fire" quite scenic and even more descriptive....
"On top of it, Republicans slashed $200 million for childhood cancer research, a program created with bipartisan support under Obama—from the CR bill."
That sucks!! As a cancer survivor, so far, and supportive of research I can attest the results of research does bring positive results.
Why is cancer research money necessary to keep the government open? I think such funding should be part of a budget process, not an emergency CR.
What about the DC stadium funding, is cutting that money as inhumane as cutting the cancer money? They're both equally unnecessary to keeping the government open.
GA
"They're both equally unnecessary to keeping the government open."
As is suspending the debt limit throughout Trump's term?
The debt ceiling thing is also unnecessary for the purpose of a CR. Hopefully, the '38' Republican dissenters will hold their ground. The restriction of 'the purse strings' is very necessary to a checks-and-balances government.
So, back to the cancer funding . . . is it wrong to think it should be a budgetary item and not a CR need?
GA
"So, back to the cancer funding . . . is it wrong to think it should be a budgetary item and not a CR need?"
I don't think it's necessarily wrong. But alternatively I sure would like to see it passed as a standalone bill. It will need to be at some other point.. if it can get passed at all.
". . . as a standalone bill."
I sure would like to see stand-alone bills too. Currently, it looks like the CR battle is producing the right results.
GA
When you vote for cheaper eggs instead of sound policy you get chaos .
Unelected, unaccountable billionaire from South Africa, who has never held public office and is, in fact, ineligible to be the American president, appears to have seized effective control of the US government. And he’s done it under the very nose of trump.
The right loves to rant about unelected bureaucrats, the so-called “deep state”, making policy. Here we have an unelected billionaire, with a long list of vested interests, haranguing Congress into following his whims and impulses.
What actually happened was this: Elon lobbied Republicans to ditch the bill, while Trump said nothing. Once it became apparent that Elon had succeeded in killing it, Trump belatedly came out to echo his position.
That is not authority. It’s a last-minute scramble to save face.
The Corrupt Cabal is in a panic...
Their multi-trillion dollar fleecing of America may be coming to an end...
Someone might actually get in there and show the American people how many billions were funded to/thru Senator's kids, John Kerry's son, Joe Biden's son... not to mention the trillions wasted in fraud committed by corporations like Boeing.
Our government is corrupt beyond most people's ability to comprehend... it is almost impossible to have any decency and integrity and work in DC and survive.
So it will be interesting to see if the Swamp is actually drained this time...
When they start shipping Senators like Pelosi and Schumer to jail for being traitors to the country, maybe then we can say it is actually being cleaned up, not to mention many bureaucrats that have spent their whole lives gaming it up in DC.
Ken, people voted for cheap eggs not all of this drama. Not a government shut down. And there is no appetite and patience for any of this nonsense.
Ken.... This is a very obvious issue with the Washington Dems.
Trump is hoping to get his way on the no-debt ceiling.
If I were Trump, I’d definitely want the debt ceiling open heading into a potential second term. It would give flexibility to act immediately on his agenda without getting tangled up in drawn-out negotiations. Think about it—having that financial tool in place would mean he could focus on priorities like the border, infrastructure, tax reforms, or military spending without hitting roadblocks every time he needed funding. He could be off and running.
It’s also about avoiding the usual gridlock in Congress. Let’s be honest, debt ceiling debates often turn into partisan bickering that wastes time. By suspending the ceiling, he could bypass that and get straight to work implementing policies. Plus, it would let Trump respond quickly to any economic challenges or opportunities—whether it’s dealing with a recession or boosting critical industries. He is an intelligent human being, that avoids problems, but stays ahead of them. Over the last 4 years, many have become accustomed to having a president causing problems and then ignoring them.
And there’s the public perception factor. Using the debt ceiling proactively could send a message of strong, decisive leadership, especially compared to the lack of action we’re seeing now under Biden. I’d want to show people I’m not afraid to take the reins and make bold moves to strengthen the country. Having that flexibility in place would be a key part of making that happen.
I predict Trump will get his open debt ceiling. It looks like the CR has been cut from over 1,500 pages to 116 pages. Thank you, Trump! Did we the people not vote to move away from the status quo? The status quo has come to a screaming halt. The Democrats might need to get accustomed to being shoved in a corner. Right where they belong.
You should be asking why should Trump get everything he wants without a challenge? I want drawn out negotiations. Why this blank check attitude from the fiscally conservatives Republicans and why the double standard regarding Democrat desire to increase the debt ceiling relative to Trump's desire to do so over an extended period exceeding a year? Why should I consent to that, what is the intent, what is he hiding in his purpose? Now, that is the real question and the real history.
I welcome the debate as that helps keep everyone in line.
"You should be asking why should Trump get everything he wants without a challenge. "Cred
In my view, He does not get anything without a fight. I mean what in the world would make you feel he goes unchallenged? I have never in my life witnessed a man who fights harder and will not take anything lying down. My gosh, what has come to him without a fight?
You do know Biden mirrored this issue? ---- In 2021, Biden and congressional Democrats successfully passed legislation to suspend the debt ceiling, allowing the government to borrow as needed without a fixed cap for a period. This measure was seen as crucial to avoid defaulting on existing obligations.
Biden also sought to suspend the debt ceiling to prevent a government default. In June 2023, he signed legislation that suspended the U.S. government's $31.4 trillion debt ceiling, effectively allowing the government to borrow as needed without a specific cap until January 1, 2025. REUTERS
This approach is similar to the one President Trump is advocating for now, where he proposes suspending the debt ceiling to avoid default and manage government borrowing.
Do you feel Trump should be treated differently? It is expected he will want to come in and be able to hit the ground running, as Biden most likely had hoped to do.
Oh yes, "to manage government borrowing". He'll need a lot of that to make up for the lack of revenue is plans will produce... Specifically the tax cuts and other giveaways
How many billions of dollars are we already spending each and every year on "cancer research" and is Big Pharma really on board for a cure?
It will take a sifting through the nasty, heinous, perverse pork to see what it will take for bent minds, dinosaurs, and RINOS to get on board, "cancer research for children". Ugh, some things never change!
Wow! Has anyone taken a moment to consider our history with raising the debt ceiling? It’s worth reflecting on for some context. Let me use a recent example to make the point clear—President Joe Biden and congressional Democrats sought to suspend the debt ceiling rather than set a specific limit. Now, here we are, with former President Trump and some Republicans proposing something strikingly similar.
Back in 2021, the debt ceiling was suspended until December 2023 as part of a bipartisan agreement to avoid default. This method allows the government to borrow as needed during the suspension period without tying it to a specific cap. It's not a new concept—suspending the debt ceiling instead of raising it to a set number has been a standard practice in modern U.S. fiscal policy to stave off financial crises.
So, here’s the question: doesn’t Trump deserve access to the same tool if the situation calls for it?
The real issue here isn’t the policy but the framing. Democrats have historically backed measures to prevent debt ceiling crises, arguing that defaulting on obligations would be catastrophic. On the other hand, Republicans, under Biden, used the debt ceiling debate to push for spending cuts—much like how Democrats approached it during Trump’s presidency. Both sides, when convenient, leverage the debt ceiling to advance their agendas, depending on who holds the reins of power.
And yet, where is Joe Biden in all of this? He’s the president, but as usual, nowhere to be seen during a crisis. Instead, the media throws a distraction at the public, labeling Elon Musk "President Musk" as some sort of absurd liberal talking point. Forget about Biden’s absence and the chaos unfolding—they’d rather feed the public another label, as if it’s the same thrill they got calling Trump "Hitler." It’s pathetic, but apparently, it will suffice.
Let me be blunt—it feels like Trump is the one running the show. Maybe that’s what’s driving the media to concoct their latest distraction, a desperate attempt to keep their narrative alive as they hurtle toward irrelevance. It’s all garbage, thrown out for those who refuse to see what’s really going on.
Can we revisit posts of those on this forum that VEHEMENTLY opposed Biden's signing of the bill to raise the ceiling last year??
It wasn't okay then but it's okay now...hmmm.
What happened to fiscal responsibility?
The CR has passed. Trump didn't get the debt ceiling win and the Democrats didn't get the pork. Yet both are on camera claiming a great victory for the American people.
I think this is a triple win. A win for both parties; the Dems did win the debt ceiling battle, and the Republicans did force a semi-clean CR. Both are wins for the American taxpayers—they got the status quo disruption they were promised. I wonder how many billions were saved by forcing the changes?
Looks like a good start for the incoming team.
GA
Musk's first taste of political failure. I think his actions show he has little idea on how government works or how to govern. Democrats were able to keep the government open in spite of the chaos he created. We will have this showdown again in a few months. Musk will need Democrat votes yet again... I don't think they're going to get them.
Musk seems to handle "failure" pretty well. We could use a lot more 'failures' like this one.
GA
I agree—go figure! It seems Elon's input had a noticeable effect on the outcome. The original CR was bloated with pork and came with an enormous price tag. His comment on X appeared to influence reworking it from a massive, costly 1,600-page document down to a much leaner 116 pages, significantly cutting costs. I see the revised CR as a win all around. I feel Musk made his presence felt and accomplished what he set out to do—save taxpayers money. I, too, hope to see more "failures" like this one. LOL! This man thrives in life, and we see few and far too few with his genius. Glad he is offering his help with attempting to rain in spending, and have a go at paying down the National debt.
The statement was as follows..
"Musk's first taste of political failure. I think his actions show he has little idea on how government works or how to govern. "
A political failure, not a statement about his ability to thrive.
Elon Musk won the day! He benefited as substantial (tons) of funds were removed that would have affected his ventures. He is off on a good foot.
And this benefits the American people how? Glad our government's spending bill could benefit him.. I guess... Like I said, welcome to the oligarchy.
Sounds like you're assuming that Musk's objective was to shut down government. The seems an exceeding foolish assumption.
He tweeted over a hundred times.... Many calling to "shut it down". He certainly wasn't opposed to a shutdown at any point
And the bluff worked. He won.
It's really amazing that with all your experience with politics you cannot read what Republicans are saying, instead changing their meaning into whatever evil suits your fancy...while at the same time changing idiotic Democratic statements into wondrous speeches of truth and value.
Or maybe it is because of your experience dealing with politics; you have become half politician yourself so your words are nothing but efforts to manipulate the emotions of people; truth, honesty and value don't matter.
Or maybe I just take what he says... No manipulation, no motive... Just face value.
Also...
″‘Shutting down’ the government (which doesn’t actually shut down critical functions btw) is infinitely better than passing a horrible bill,” Musk wrote in one of dozens of X posts opposing a temporary spending bill. He also said “no bills” should be passed until after Jan. 20 when Donald J. Trump takes office."
He's right, isn't he? If govt. can't spend the money on things the country needs, shut it down and stop throwing our money away.
But, I am not shutting everything down just on the terms of some pompous billionaire, like Musk. Who made him lord and master?
As I have told you countless times before, what you and Rightwingers think we need verses my opinion are galaxies apart, so the fight will continue and I don't particularly care what an oligarch like Musk thinks.....
It seems you might feel that unnecessary items should have remained in the CR. I think adding projects that aren’t part of "necessary needs" to a Continuing Resolution (CR) is problematic for several reasons.
First, it dilutes the purpose of the CR. These resolutions are meant to provide temporary, essential funding, and adding unrelated or non-urgent projects undermines that purpose. It also risks delaying the CR's passage.
Second, there’s the issue of lack of scrutiny. Projects that aren’t necessary don’t get the same level of debate or analysis as they would in regular appropriations bills. That can lead to wasteful spending, which is frustrating to see.
Third, it damages public perception. Including unrelated projects makes it look like lawmakers are exploiting these urgent funding measures for political or personal agendas, and that erodes trust in government.
The idea of CRs was to keep the government running smoothly and pay standing bills. Congress began adding policy riders and unrelated projects to CRs, which has complicated their purpose and sometimes delayed their passage. As we have witnessed for years. These additions have turned what was meant to be a straightforward funding measure into a political bargaining tool. In my view, it's time to rid ourselves of the status quo bad habit, which in the long run adds unnecessary spending to CRs.
Congress can address their pork projects in separate bills. Where each bit of pork could be investigated for its value.
It is becoming clear, that breaking the many status quo habits that Trump hopes to do, will be painful to some. Me, I want true change, the old BS is not working any longer.
"The idea of CRs was to keep the government running smoothly and pay standing bills."
Personally, I don't believe this is true. While there is zero doubt that is what we were told, I have a really hard time believing that hidden, pork barrel, spending beyond any budget constraints was, and is, the goal. Our vaunted "leaders" are buying votes with our money, and forcing it through threat of govt. shutdown (which always seems to be merely the things that are most obvious and in-your-face) is the best way to do it unseen. Besides, both sides can then blame the other, shouting to the heavens that the other side is intentionally shutting down the government.
How long has it been since Congress approved a budget on time, meaning another CR (or more) was needed? 20 years? 30?. In 40 years, Congress has done it's job with the budget just 4 times. This is NOT by accident, and it is NOT the work of only Democrats or only Republicans. It is not because of new wars or massive hurricanes in the last couple of months each year. It is not because a math mistake was made 40 times.
It is because Congress wants those CR's and will do whatever it takes to get them.
https://checkyourfact.com/2023/12/08/fa … -40-years/
Yes, I had hoped to highlight that continuing CRs (Continuing Resolutions) shouldn't just be used for pet projects. And it’s undeniable that CRs have long been misused to add unnecessary pork, a practice that’s become the status quo and has been accepted by the people. One only has to read the comments on this thread to see that.
Musk said, "Shut it down!" Many Americans voted for someone who promised to shut things down if needed to bring about real change. I didn’t vote for the status quo that I saw with the first CR. The second one, while better, still wasn’t great. The problem is, most people don’t really pay attention to what Congress is voting on, even if they should. I was happy to see the massive CR get trimmed down, but I absolutely didn’t like seeing so many Republicans ready to support the big one. I’m also disappointed that the second CR wasn’t cleaned up more thoroughly. It’s clear Congress needs a reminder of why we sent Trump back. Thank God Musk spoke out to remind us that we were on the verge of letting a massive CR with tons of pork pass, without realizing that we’ve been putting up with this garbage for years, and we were about to do it again.
Yes, congress wants those CR (both sides) do you think they want more of what they saw with this CR go around? They all have eggs on their faces..
If have got no issues with the points that you make here, Some how the word got our via Musk that Congress wanted a 40 percent wage when it was actually only 3.5 percent.
That is why there is a Congress to debate and come to a conclusion. There are separation of powers in our Government so what Trump and Musk want is not necessarily gospel. Simple fiscal responsibility required a consideration of the debt limit and where we are relative to it whenever the budget is being debated. Trump and his henchmen cannot alter that fundamental principle, that is why so many GOP concerned about setting a bad precedent went against their "fearless leader" and did not comply with Trump's wishes.
The "change" Trump is supposed to represent is taking us the wrong direction and it starts even before he takes the oath, in my opinion. The Constitution and its prescriptions are not to be negotiated nor toyed around with. It is "change" that I don't need.
I have no problem with a raise being considered for Congress, they have not had one in well over a decade. My point it needs to be in a separate Proposal. A member of Congress or a Congressional committee can introduce a bill to authorize a pay raise for lawmakers.
It’s true that fiscal responsibility requires careful consideration of the debt limit during budget debates, and while Trump did propose an open-ended increase to the debt ceiling, he wasn’t the only recent president to request similar measures. Several other presidents, including those from both parties, have called for lifting or suspending the debt limit without attaching specific conditions. For example, in 2011, Barack Obama requested a "clean" debt ceiling increase, meaning one that would allow the government to borrow without additional spending cuts or conditions. Although it faced opposition, it was ultimately granted after significant debate. Similarly, in 2002, George W. Bush signed legislation to raise the debt ceiling without specifying limits or reductions in spending, a move that was part of the broader strategy to address rising deficits following the 9/11 attacks and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. More recently, in 2021, Joe Biden called for an increase to the debt ceiling, stressing the need to avoid defaulting on the nation’s obligations. Like his predecessors, Biden’s request didn’t come with conditions but also met resistance, particularly from Republicans concerned about government spending. These examples show that the call for an open-ended debt ceiling increase is not a new or unique proposal from Trump, but has been a part of broader fiscal strategies in past administrations. The precedent was set decades ago. So the concerns now point to hypocrisy. Trump should be held to no higher standard than those he follows. This should be evident, but it is not.
You have every right to your view regarding what direction Trump will take us. I disagree... Hopefully, my comment will point out what is not fully being acknowledged by some regarding what CRs are designed to perform, and that Trump is not the one setting any president regarding just asking for an open debt ceiling.
As for the other half of the story, Sharlee......
"President-elect Donald Trump on Thursday called for the elimination of the nation's debt limit entirely, one day after throwing Congressional leaders a major curveball when he brought the topic into already volatile efforts to pass a short-term government funding bill and avert a shutdown"
What previous President proposed eliminating the debt limit in its entirety?
While there are many Democrats that would salivate at the idea of eliminating the debt limit, I am not one of them. It opens the the door to irresponsible and profligate spending. With Trump and Republicans at the helm, I am going to be just that more suspicious as to the intent.
Yes, some U.S. presidents have advocated for removing or suspending the debt ceiling permanently, but none have succeeded in making it permanent. The most notable example is President Barack Obama, who, during his time in office, pushed for the idea of eliminating the debt ceiling entirely. Obama argued that the debt ceiling was a manufactured crisis that could threaten the country's financial stability and was not necessary for fiscal responsibility.
President Lyndon B. Johnson also expressed frustration with the debt ceiling during his administration. Although he didn’t formally propose eliminating it, Johnson did advocate for its suspension to allow the government to meet its obligations, particularly during times of war and domestic spending programs.
I am not for removing the debt ceiling. I prefer caps.
Have you even looked at what was taken out of the CR? Or do you just claim it was justified because it came from liberals? Or because a Republican (Musk) didn't like it? Do you even care anymore, or just fight conservatives regardless of what the fight is about?
I saw what was taken out of the CR and the troublesome provision that Trump and the GOP wanted to include.
Both sides came to a compromise, you always talk about compromise, is that not the way it should be?
I don't like Musk and I don't trust the conservatives as they are fundamentally duplicitous. It is natural that the left is going have issues with the right. So, I know what the fight is all about, and it's unavoidable because I don't trust "them".
I liked it, and agree compromise is the best (only) way to go.
But it is not me griping that Musk is an evil person and I will not accept anything he says or wants. That would be you.
Thank you for the answer though - few will do that. You make it plain that it isn't about what happened or the specifics; it is about conservatives and compromising with them. Something that should never be done because you don't trust conservatives.
You compromise with conservatives because the alternative is gridlock, But, I am not going to give them everything they want in capitulation. I will always lean Left as my background and experiences demand it, and I have to work with Republicans because they are here, and I have to.
It is not me, the world richest man might easily also be the world's biggest jerk? It is not outside the realm of possibility. He is non elected and throwing his phony title and money around to intimidate Congress even before trump takes the oath. No, I don't like Musk or his arrogant style.
Yes, he might be a jerk. I doubt it, but I don't know the man personally so cannot say, and certainly will not make the assumption without knowing.
Unfortunately a lot of liberals (according to you) take the opposite tack; he doesn't agree with you politically so he is a jerk - no knowledge of the man needed.
I just don't agree with the methodology or the terminology you choose to use.
I come to my conclusion based upon the arrogant and pompous behavior as the manner used to push the Trump agenda even before Trump takes the oath.
And that is ok, Wilderness, because I don't agree with the methodology or terminology you choose to use, either....
Yes, I'm not sure common sense rings true anymore --- status quo is some mantra. Just keep on printing... LOL Up is down...
The CR was posted online for public review. It was reduced to 116 pages from the original 1,600, making it much more accessible to read. After reading the CR, the removal of excessive "pork" is definitely a win, as it seems to have cut out unnecessary spending. While Trump didn't achieve his Christmas wish regarding the debt ceiling, it appears that significant savings were realized. Additionally, Elon Musk won the day! He benefited as substantial (tons) of funds were removed that would have affected his ventures. He is off on a good foot.
"'Shutting down' the government (which doesn't actually shut down critical functions btw) is infinitely better than passing a horrible bill," Musk wrote in an X post.
Read the CR, and check out that most of the pork was cut, and the CR clean.
https://docs.house.gov/billsthisweek/20 … 012.20.pdf
WEDNESDAY: Trump threatens to primary "Any Republican" who votes for a clean continuing resolution without a debt limit extension.
FRIDAY: 170 Republicans vote for a clean continuing resolution without a debt limit extension; the bill passes overwhelmingly...
Will Musk primary these folks? Trump seems to be in direct opposition with him in terms of their beliefs on raising the debt ceiling. Musk is clearly against it and Trump wants to see it raised so he can borrow in order to fund his giveaways...
So I believe the cr that passed was the same as the 2nd bill minus the debt ceiling demand. Do Chip Roy's comments ring true? I thought the "pork" was taken out? The bill passed with more Democrat votes than Republican. Just how fiscally responsible is it, by Republican standards?
"You've added to the debt since you were given the majority again on November 5th. It's embarrassing. It's shameful."
"Yes, I think this bill is better than it was yesterday on certain respects. But to take this bill yesterday and congratulate yourself because it's shorter in pages, but increases the debt by $5 trillion is asinine."
"I am absolutely sickened by a party that campaigns on fiscal responsibility and has the temerity to go forward to the American people and say you think this is fiscally responsible."
"It is absolutely ridiculous."
I'm thinking that Musk is a fiscal conservative but Trump surely not. I'm predicting we see yet another splinter in the Republican party...Musk Republicans
The pared-down CR includes $100 billion in hurricane relief and $10 billion in aid to farmers, but it excludes certain elements from the original proposal, such as the push to eliminate the debt ceiling. This reduction reflects a clear effort to focus on immediate funding needs, leaving more contentious or expansive provisions for future debates.
While the exact monetary difference between the original and final CR isn't out as of yet, the substantial reduction in the document's length and the removal of several provisions indicate a significant decrease in proposed spending and policy measures. This streamlined approach was intended to keep government operations running and provide disaster relief while setting the stage for further discussions on spending in the months ahead. One only needs to read the CR to see it covered essentials. I consider this a win for taxpayers, period.
Just became aware of some of the pork that was added to the CR---- that was cut. think it's important to have a look at one such bit of bacon! The provision restricting investments in China was cut. This bit did not belong in a CR.
First--- In the context of the U.S. government, a CR refers to a Continuing Resolution. A Continuing Resolution is a type of legislation used by Congress to fund government agencies and programs temporarily when a formal appropriations bill has not been signed into law. They are not for restricting investments via regulation. This would seem to have been a cheap ploy the Dems tried to dangle off the CR. The Democrats failed to pull this off. They failed, guess they should be accustomed to failure. There will be plenty to come for this bunch.
If the provision restricting investments in China had passed in the Continuing Resolution (CR), it could have had several significant consequences for both U.S. businesses and the broader U.S.-China economic relationship. Many American companies (Approx 40%) with substantial interests in China, especially in sectors like technology, manufacturing, and consumer goods, would likely have faced major challenges. Restrictions on investment could have led to financial losses, disrupted supply chains, and made it harder for companies to access the Chinese market, which is crucial for growth. This would have been particularly damaging for businesses that rely on China for manufacturing or as a consumer base.
We should not forget that China is our number one trading partner. To add such restrictions would certainly be unfavorable to our economy, creating more obstacles than solutions. It would have also presented Trump with a major problem on day one, as he strives for better, fairer trade. His goal is not to cut China out of the picture but to draw a new picture where the playing field is more balanced. The move would have undermined that objective, potentially limiting flexibility in trade talks and reducing leverage for future negotiations.
This restriction would have further strained U.S.-China relations. China could have viewed this as an escalation, and we might have seen retaliatory actions such as restrictions on U.S. companies in China. This could have intensified the ongoing trade tensions between the two countries and possibly caused broader geopolitical ramifications. On a larger scale, global supply chains would have been affected, as China plays such a pivotal role in manufacturing and providing materials. Companies could have been forced to find alternative suppliers or manufacturing locations, which would have been more costly and less efficient.
Politically, passing such a restriction could have limited our negotiating flexibility in future trade talks with China. It might have made it harder for the U.S. to use economic incentives like trade access or market opportunities as leverage in discussions. Investors, particularly those with exposure to Chinese markets, might have pulled back, causing market volatility and forcing a shift in investment strategies. Overall, if the restriction had passed, it could have led to economic disruptions, diplomatic tensions, and instability in both supply chains and financial markets.
It's evident that the Democrats aimed to immediately undermine Trump with such a regulation. Fortunately, the Republicans succeeded in stopping them in their tracks. This bunch is vile, they have no respect for "we the people". It's all about their power, which at this point their power is on life-support.
Lol I thought we were trying to keep American jobs and innovation out of Chinese hands? Not anymore?
Musk got the only thing that he wanted. Does Trump realize it?
Musk blew up a bipartisan budget deal with an avalanche of tweets contending that it was too costly, luring Trump into demanding that Republicans kill it. But Musk’s real reason was that the agreement included painstakingly negotiated (mostly by Cornyn of Texas) limits on American tech investment in China. Had that provision passed, it would have been costly to Musk’s extensive Chinese Tesla operations and future AI plans.
The original bill would have made it harder for Musk to build Tesla factories in Shanghai.
The word for this is oligarchy, and oligarchs don’t think about the country first.
So the measure at issue is known as the “outbound investment” provision. We have heard for years about the problem of manufacturing businesses shipping jobs overseas to China, with its low worker wages and low environmental standards. China typically forces businesses wanting to locate factories in its country to transfer their technology and intellectual property to Chinese firms, which can then use that to undercut competitors in global markets, with state support.
Congress has been working itself into a lather about China for years now, and they finally came up with a way to deal with this issue. Sens. John Cornyn (R-TX) and Bob Casey (D-PA) have the flagship bill, which would either prohibit U.S. companies from investing in “sensitive technologies” in China, including semiconductors and artificial intelligence.
Cornyn-Casey passed the Senate last year, and after about a year of legislative wrangling, a final outbound investment package made it into the year-end bill. “We’re taking a necessary step to safeguard American innovation against bad actors and ensure our lasting dominance on the world stage,” Cornyn said in a statement.
Funny story: Elon Musk’s car company has a significant amount of, well, outbound investment. A Tesla Gigafactory in Shanghai opened in 2019; maybe a quarter of the company’s revenue comes from China. Musk has endorsed building a second Tesla factory in China, where his grip on the electric-vehicle market has completely loosened amid domestic competition. He is working with the Chinese government to bring “Full Self-Driving” technology to China, in other words, importing a technology that may be seen as sensitive.
You can argue about whether the U.S. should be restricting investment in China. But it’s incontrovertible that a billionaire who has a bunch of investments in China and wants to make more all of a sudden disrupted a normal congressional process that was going to restrict that investment with a bunch of lies from his media platform. And lo and behold, when the new funding bill emerged, the outbound investment feature was dropped.
Trump preens as someone determined to “get tough” on China. But he’s empowered someone with serious business entanglements in China to seemingly serve as a barrier to any policies related to China over the next four years.
Trump scuttled a spending bill primarily to shield the richest man in the world’s investments in China.
This is going to be a constant theme of the next four years. Personal business interests are going to constantly take precedence over governance in the Trump/Musk White House.
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