what are they thinking?
dems pass a law that violates the constitution, It goes to the supreme court, The supreme court deems it against the law, The People responsible are charged with treason. I'm no expert but could this happen?}
No. No one will get charged with treason, they won't even be impeached, though I think they should!
My guess is the Supreme Court won't find this bill unconstitutional, certainly not in it's entirety. They may find the provision to force citizens at birth to buy health insurance unconstitutional.
Frankly, I think the democrats KNEW this when they put it in the bill and put it in there anyway because they knew they couldn't pass a bill with a "public option".
The way to fix it is to tax all Americans and provide a "public option". That would probably be ruled constitutional, though I think the very idea of the federal government regulating health insurance is not! What I think doesn't matter and the Supreme Court is a political body and a part of the federal government. There's nothing stopping them from interpreting the Constitution in a way that protects the power of the federal government, even if it's at the expense of the people and of freedom!
The thinking is that this commission on deficit reduction that Obama formed by executive order, will recommend a VAT tax like in Europe, a national sales tax. They might employ this to pay for health care or they might use it to reduce the national debt, which if you include all unfunded liabilities is about 400,000 for every man, woman and child in the country.
What's more likely is they will use the VAT tax for more and more entitlements in an effort to get re-elected. Immigration reform is next and I guarantee you, all illegal immigrants will be granted amnesty and made citizens, with full access to health care and all of the other wonderful welfare benefits that America provides.
Yeah but why are illegals exempt from it? And they don't get fined either.
The healthcare bill is not against the Constitution. Look to the commerce clause. Same argument made against Medicare and Social Security.
Supreme court and the commerce clause.
Is the commerce clause the one that states, gov. cannot force the people any product.
The court has recognized limits to the Commerce Clause and this nightmare of a bill clearly exceeds them.
Health Care Reform is Health Insurance Justice
yes income tax, leaders in congress dont pay it why should we
so give yourself a raise quit paying income tax .
there ya go marki thats good for a LOLOLOL
I think mark is on to something . Don't pay income tax then you can afford health care
If we all refuse to pay our income tax we can easily resume control of our country.
They do not have the facilities to jail us all and without revenue they could not make payroll.
We subsidize our own oppressors.
Why didn't you try this during the Bush reign? We invaded a sovereign nation with no good reason.
who said anything bout bush , the problem is obama now .bush been gone
Obama will be gone too, eventually. Suffer through it like we did with Bush or keep quiet about it. I guarantee you you cannot dislike Obama any more than I abhored Bush. Deal with it!
yea I got to for awhile. ya know when obama first got elected I thought ,He might do a good job to prove himself , but he turend out just like the rest or maybe worse with this we bend the rules stuff.
ya know whats funny to is that tha same people who cant afford health insurance now have new burden. to be find and jailed... O that fixes every thing but they will be healthy in jail.
Are you leading the revolution? I'll look for you on the tee vee.
NO ,just going to vote against anyone who supported this bill,
.......but nice try to demonize me
Actually, that was addressed to Arthur, who said:
"If we all refuse to pay our income tax we can easily resume control of our country.
They do not have the facilities to jail us all and without revenue they could not make payroll.
We subsidize our own oppressors."
It was Arthur's idea. I'm merely asking if he is going to take the lead on the revolt against government oppression.
I have been revolting against oppression since the mass murderer Janet Reno opened my eyes.
what did she do?
I never paid much attention Janet
actuality I just woke up... I'm one of those guys
Really? What form does this revolt take?
Just curious, as I've never talked to an actual revolutionary before.
I don't think he means he's taking part in a revolution. He merely feels that he is revolting.
I do not own a car.
I do not have a home of my own.
I barter my services for food and shelter.
I usually buy things used.
I survive on very basic essentials.
Impressive, but where's the part about going to jail for the cause? I was hoping for something a little more daring, given your suggestion that people not pay taxes and go to jail.
No I said if enough people held back payment there would not be enough jail space for them to enforce the law.
Oh, once again, a clarification along the lines of Poppa's clarification in another thread.
You do realize that if I had committed acts that could be construed as criminal I would be smart enough not to confess them openly on the internet. Right LOL
No, you just advocate other people committing criminal acts openly on the internet.
How brave of you.
I said it hypothetically. I was responding to Mark.
"If" we all refuse to pay our income tax we can easily resume control of our country.
Do not follow me I do not know where I am going.
The truth is the only reason that the IRS exists is because we comply with them.
I disagree with taxes on wages since wages are the result of human labor. Extorting a percentage of a persons manual labor is a form of slavery.
Taxes on income I support. Income is derived through no action of the recipient. Rents, divedends etc.....
There is an organization called "We The People" that is challenging the IRS over withholding taxes on the premise that it violates the first amendment where it closes with the words "... and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
The premise is what is an individual's recourse to petition the government for redress of grievances, if the government refuses to hear him? Based on that he claims he should be able to withhold his taxes or whatever portion he feels is collected in violation of his rights and as such withholding taxes from his pay is illegal.
The Supreme Court in a defeat for his cause REFUSED to define the meaning of those last 9 words of the first amendment.
It is frustrating that people cant wait for even the effect of the law, the lawmakers who signed the law must not all be crazy like all the poeple here want to say,
people just like to talk and criticize but cant see even the slightest objectives of the law
what happened to "US" is we became a country of talkers and criticizers not doers, easy to point fingers, impatient and unappreciative and lack of respect for other people who also voted for the people in the offices, as well as the lawmakers, we dont respect anybody, blah blah blah
what happened to democracy?
I'm a voter I do object to bureaucracy overwhelming the people with too many laws fines etc. we have plenty laws now how bout enforce some we have now like immigration laws.
we have lots of good laws, the implementation is the problem as we have many stakeholders, like the health care law -- the people, the government, the two parties, republicans and democrats, pharmaceuticals, health insurers, illegal imigrants who are of course affected by the law
youre right, they should hurry up in coming up with illegal immigration laws, -- to legalize them -- period, since they cant stop them from coming, even if they sent these people home -- there are many who will replace them as the system of "entry" into this country is not perfect, it will happen and happen that people will come here and stay ilegally, why not legalize them -- they help the economy in many ways, they cheapen the labor market, and they bring a new culture into a diverse homogenous culture, hehe -- new beers like CORONA is good, MUY MUY MUY
If we took over Mexico make it part of America. they would not have to cross a border?
We didn't do that when we had the chance because Mexico was pretty well deemed useless.
US cant even take car of his own people, maybe just legalize those who are already here, not all Mexicans want to be part of America
I don't think it's a good idea to just wave a wand and legalize everyone. However, maybe it should be modified so it is easier to get here legally. With so many illegals, it is bad for everyone. Many illegals are taken advantage of or exploited if you will, because they can't complain to anyone.
"why not legalize them -- they help the economy in many ways, they cheapen the labor market, and they bring a new culture into a diverse homogenous culture, hehe --"
Distorting the labor market does not help the economy, and what the heck is a "diverse homogeneous" cluture?
yes speaking of distortion... I used to finish sheetrock and paint you cant decent living at that any more.
Glad I learned how to play guitar. now I make more with my band.lol that's not saying much.
You make enough as a musician to live on?
diverse and pretending to be homogenous when in fact people here came from different parts of the world!
"people just like to talk and criticize but cant see even the slightest objectives of the law"
The people who 'voted' for this law (or voted for a rule change that says, "we didn't vote on it but let's say we did anyway") didn't even read the damn thing. Start there.
"what happened to democracy?"
The democrats have stomped all over it.
Yeah, those darn citizens voted them into office, then they passed a bill using procedures and processes that have been used by Republicans many times before.
How dare they?
I'm not republican or democrat, the way I see it is. I don't like the rule bending
or the hurry hurry factor, Heck I wouldn't buy a used car if the salesmen used the hurry up sign here tactic. much less a monster bill like they passed.
"Yeah, those darn citizens voted them into office"
And then they turned around and spit in the faces of those citizens.
I am one of those citizens,and I am glad they finally did something about health care, or do you think only people who agree with you are citizens?
"I am one of those citizens"
You are in the minority. The majority of your fellow citizens made it clear they did not want this mess. It wasn't even that people weren't interested in health care reform - they didn't (and don't) want this mess, and certainly not in the greasy, corrupt manner it was passed. If the dems had been smart about it there could be several new laws in effect by now that the people would be satisfied with. The people don't appreciate a bunch of gangsters spitting in our face and they will remember this in November.
Wrong again. The majority of American citizens support the bill and that majority increases daily.
If the Democrats had been smarter instead of nicer, they would have shut the Republicans out at the beginning. The dissapointment people have has more to do with it not going far enough, not as the right-wing fearmongers claim, that it goes too far.
The people will indeed remember this in November and throw more Republicans into retirement.
pretty I agree something needs to be done to fix health care .but this aint it ,the bill will make health care worse. Tort reform is a good start and they wipe that off the table
could it be too much bureaucracy interferes with democracy?
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